Embarrassing things Europeans do while visiting America..

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Go on, tell me.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

1. Failing to tip. 15%-20% at restaurants, 10-15% to taxi drivers, and AT LEAST a dollar per drink at bars.

2. Feigning ignorance at tipping customs.

― Benjamin, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate it when the mods and rockers visit. They're always at each others throat.

Other than that I think its great when foreigners visit and would never try to make them conform to the local customs.

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Flashing their asses at passing motorists.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

A DOLLAR A DRINK?? If I was serving in a busy bar all night I might serve a few hundred drinks. Bar staff must be rolling in it! Remind me to pick pocket them.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Some the haircuts could use work. Also some of them are friendly in ways that we're just not used to dealing with. And a lot of them are interested in emblematic America-as-frontier stuff, like cowboys, that most Americans don't perceive as having anything much to do with what the country is actually like -- stuff we're largely happy to have gotten over with because it looks awful. A lot of them also overestimate our level of violence.

But by and large Americans don't really care about or get bothered by tourists one way or another, apart from the annoyance I imagine everyone anywhere feels about people crowding up the streets and taking pictures of stuff you were bored with from the beginning.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

You're supposed to tip at a bar! Crikey, no wonder the last time I was in the USA the barman wasn't too friendly.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate people who are only friendly because you're giving them money.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

a dollar a drink seems a bit excessive. With the rotgut I drink it's a 50 percent tip!

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

You can order a drink for less than $2 in Cleveland?? I will be at the Days Inn.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Outside of major cities, you can get away with tipping a bit less-- rounding up a $2.50 beer to $3, for example-- but the dollar a drink thing is for real.

The trade-off is that the bartender, by custom, is supposed to give you every fourth drink or so as a free "buyback" (*for which you still are expected to tip a dollar*). But this social contract breaks down on busy nights, or at unpleasant bars.

And yes, Nick, bartenders do quite well on busy nights at popular bars, making several hundred dollars in tips, to supplement the minimum wage of tipped employees ($2.13 per hour).

― Benjamin, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Even if you're drinking like, $7 drinks to make it a 15% tip, that seems too much - serving a drink is much less effort than serving food.

The trade-off is that the bartender, by custom, is supposed to give you every fourth drink or so as a free "buyback" (*for which you still are expected to tip a dollar*).

This is surely madness.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry - I didn't mean to turn this into another 'Americans and their head-spinning tipping ways' thread.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Chicago still doesn't grasp the concept of the buyback. It's just dollar-a-drink, and I get the feeling Felicity would be more than happy to tell you what can happen when you don't live up to that in the wrong place.

The thing is, Nick, yes, it's less effort than serving food -- but in a restaurant there are enough people to serve everyone, and they're obligated to serve everyone. At a busy city bar, it's dozens of people bellied up to the bar waving bills at two bartenders, so a cash market for attention develops. Tip well -- "well" means, like, maybe two dollars a drink -- and you won't be waiting so long next time.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Calling everything shit. Driving gigantic mobile homes poorly. Wearing Lederhosen.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm American and I didn't know I was supposed to tip a dollar a drink. I usually tip a dollar for the first drink (per bar tender). Then maybe on the 3rd or 4th drink tip a dollar again. (Most of the time my "drinks" are merely bottled water or soda, so take that into consideration.)

I will have to ask my restaurant business friends about this.

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never heard of this buy back concept. Must be a coastal phenom.

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

No wonder New Yorkers are thought of by the rest of you as such pushy assholes, but we're not jumping your line at the bar-- we're just collecting on the attentiveness earned by our massive one dollar tips!

― Benjamin, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I feel like a stranger in my own country.

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

a dollar a drink is a little steep in most places that aren't new york, don't you think?

― maura (maura), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Why do New Yorkers demand more?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

European customers also forget (or just don't know) about sales tax.

― rosemary (rosemary), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

That's cause we have ours already added onto the prices on the shelves and stickers because we are not trying to trick tourists.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I commonly tip $1 a drink - not so much because I feel I have to, mainly because I've been a bartender and I'd rather over-tip than under-tip. Plus, I *usually* get better service and stronger drinks - cheers!

― luna.c (luna.c), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

!!!!!

I don't even understand tipping customs over here (I mean, I think I'm ok if not hugely generous in restaurants and so on, but not good at working out whether a tip is appropriate or not in cafes). My brain hurts. I am too scared to go back to the US now. Eek.

― Rebecca (reb), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:06 (twenty-two years ago)

www.tipping.org

― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

It's $1/drink in Boston, too.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

In the greater scheme of things, $1 tip on a drink is not bad. American drinks are way stronger anyway.

Another way to deal with this is to round up: if the round is $17, the bartender is given $20.

In Britain, ALWAYS tip in cash. There was a recent court ruling which allows restauranteurs to keep 'service charge' money from credit card and cheque receipts.

― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I tip $1/drink when I go to the bar and order for myself only, but surely none of you are adding an extra $ for every drink when you are buying a round, right?

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

On a round, it's up to the nearest $5.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, that's not true; it's $1 for every $5.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, that's not true; it's $1 for every $5

Ah, very good. That's about what I do - and I was worried that all this time I was being very cheap!

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I've always gone with the dollar-a-drink rule. If you're in a bar, the bartender owns you -- if he doesn't want to serve you, he doesn't have to, and if you're an ass to him, he might water down your drink or even have the barback take a piss in your beer. So be nice to him, and he'll treat you well.

I've actually heard that if you're ordering something complicated, like a layered shot or a Long Island Iced Tea, or anything where the bartender has to use the blender, that you should tip $2. (But I never order any of that stuff.)

― Jody Beth Rosen, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

There's nothing complicated about a Long Island Iced Tea!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

when I use plastic, I tip between 20-25%.

With cash in L.A. or SF, I always tip $1 on the first drink and then between $.50 - $1.00 per drink depending on a complicated matrix involving quality of service, attractiveness/friendliness of bartender, drunken-ness and current poverty-feeling index.

Also, any complicated (martini etc) drink should get a dollar. I usually only tip $.50 for subsequent beers.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

There's nothing complicated about a Long Island Iced Tea!

They're not hard to make, they just require handling a lot of different bottles, etc. It takes twice as long to make one as it does to make, like , a rum and coke. The bartender could be off helping someone else and getting that guy's tip.

― Jody Beth Rosen, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Its about a buck a drink in Canada too despite our bartenders making a minimum double that of our southern neighbours.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 19:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh and from recent experiences, don't ask in America if they have Interact, apparently thats Canadian only thingy.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, now I have to ask: what the hell is Interact?

― Nick A., Wednesday, 16 October 2002 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i tip 50% on the first drink to make friends and ensure strong mixed drinks. then it's a dollar a drink, or 50-75 cents if i have a bunch of change to get rid of. if they're charging 4.25 or some silly price for a cocktail, i'm not gonna pocket the quarters and dig out another dollar bill.

― boxcubed (boxcubed), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

What should one do about tipping in hotels, then?

How much should one tip the guy who takes your bags up to the room (or out to the cab)?

Should one tip the concierge if they give you a bit of information?

The maid who cleans your room? (& how do you do that if you never see her?)

― In a funk about tipping (Mooro), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Interac. Bank debit card used for purchases here. If your bank card says Interac on the back of it you can use it to buy things here. It's in the States, too, but I don't think they've bothered to name it anything annoying like Interac.

― Bryan (Bryan), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

In Canada. Sorry.

― Bryan (Bryan), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

a dollar a drink is surely correct and well known? otoh more than a dollar a drink seems insane.

― toby (tsg20), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Interact is like your wierd Visa/bankcard hybrids. Basically using your bankcard you use on ATMS to buy things like your VISA but the money comes straight from your bank account. No bills, no interest charges from hell.
Its simmilar to Starbucks cards but good almost everywhere (except Starbucks).

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

re hotels: don't let them touch your bags, no, and no. Alternately stay at the motel 6.

― Kris (aqueduct), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

here Interact is the high school community service club, which is totally useless information.

― Maria (Maria), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

i found it embarrassing that my european friends all bought about 50,000 abercrombie and fitch tshirts each while they were here. also, they were obsessed with hooters resturants.
of course, im not speaking for the entire european community, but these were the primary intrests of the bunac kiddies i worked with this summer.

― amy (amy), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

(p.s. Europeans: Houston Street in New York is pronounced "How-stun" not "Hyoo-stun")

― felicity (felicity), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I tip bartenders much more than cab drivers. Cabbies I'll typically round up the fare and, if they drove well, add a dollar. Say the fare was $5.60 I'll give them $7. That's if the ride was uneventful and they didn't try to take some weird route while I'm drunk and passing out (Which they often try to do! Watch them!). With a bartender you are tipping not only for that transaction, but to ensure future transactions go smoothly, particulary if you plan to be a regular. But with a cabbie, if you tip badly then some dude gets pissed and speeds off and that's the end of it. However: with car services it's a different kind of thing. In those cases, I always tip well since I end up using the same two or three Brooklyn car services regularly (Eastern, International and Mexicali for those keeping score). This is in hopes that on Friday nights when I (again) drunkenly call for a cab (I only take cabs when I'm drunk) they will remember my address and know that I am A Good Tipper and thus worth picking up sometime in the next hour rather than the next 12 hours. This is how I look at it anyway.

And this entire post is interesting to... not even me!

― Yancey (ystrickler), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Eastern, International and Mexicali

What about Arecibo!

― Benjamin, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, so let's say I am out dancing in a nightclub. I am only buying bottled water. I buy one bottle of water for $3. Do I leave $1 for every bottle of water I buy? That seems a bit much.

I just can't be arsed anymore to buy drinks when I don't really want them.

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't tip as much when I'm drinking non-alcohol. I dunno if there's any solid reasoning for this, but it seems right.

― Yancey (ystrickler), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

No, Rockist Scientist, what you do then is you buy ONE bottle, tip ONE dollar, drink ONE bottle, then go into ONE men's room and refill the bottle from the tap.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 22:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm sort of kidding -- I never do that, but I always think it seems like a pretty good idea.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

fellow Americans, let us quit being so sheepish. 2 months' salary, and that is GROSS, not NET, must be paid out in tips, per annum.

― Aaron A., Wednesday, 16 October 2002 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Nabisco, have you ever tasted Philadelphia tap water?

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

What should one do about tipping in hotels, then?
How much should one tip the guy who takes your bags up to the room (or out to the cab)?

$1 per bag.

Should one tip the concierge if they give you a bit of information?

According to one book, it's the concierge's job to give out information and arrange basic services, but if he or she comes through with something special (say, reservations at El Swanky Bistro) a reward would be nice.

The maid who cleans your room? (& how do you do that if you never see her?)

$1-2 per day per person staying in the room. On the day I leave I either leave it on the dresser, or put it in an envelope and leave that on the dresser.

In the meantime, be nice to bartenders. One Black Cat bartender whom I've known for years (and regularly tipped) recently offered to have me put on the guest list for any future concerts I want to see.

― j.lu (j.lu), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Going into the beds section of furniture stores holding hands, calling yourself "Hans" and "Franz", speaking in highly exagerated German accents and asking for "a bed that can withstand some damage- Lady Hausbrocken was not pleased by what happened at our last party!" Well, it was fun while it lasted.

― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 16 October 2002 22:44 (twenty-two years ago)

all this makes living in melbourne seem like some kind of tip-free utopia. all the prices are as they appear and you can drink the water straight out of the tap and everything!

don't you feel condescending giving people their dollar or two? "here you go kid, don't spend it all at once" (i know, i know, minumum wage sans tips isn't very dignified either)

― minna (minna), Wednesday, 16 October 2002 23:25 (twenty-two years ago)

"don't you feel condescending giving people their dollar or two?"

Well, if the physical act of tipping a small sum of money troubles you, it may be of reassurance to know that bargoers typically don't press a dollar into the barkeep's palm, and give a little wink.

For those sitting at the bar, the common approach is to have a little stack of money from which the bartender will, upon occasion, remove the sum that represents your drink. When you leave the bar, you then leave behind a dollar for every drink. Leaving your tip on the bar after you get change for a round at your table is also acceptable. The bartender, from time to time, will happily gather the assortment of bills that have been left for him or her.

Considering that nice people with no discernable job skills except for quickly pouring pints of beer or mixing a small range of cocktails while carrying on a conversation every so often can make a reasonable living (though they don't get paid vacations, or pensions, and would have to pay a fortune for their own health insurance, and are exposed to a tremendous amount of concentrated cigarette smoke for many consecutive hours), I don't think bartenders feel like your dollar tip is condescending. At all.

That said, there are some truly awful places in New York and Los Angeles with unspeakably expensive mixed drinks. A dollar tip there is considered poor form. But I would never, ever go to such a place, and neither would you, I should hope.

I wonder what sort of life bartenders lead in the tip-free utopia of Melbourne. An impoverished one?

― Benjamin, Thursday, 17 October 2002 00:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe, but they get paid a lot better than $2.13 an hour

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 17 October 2002 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Significantly more than the Aussie minimum wage, which comes to... a bit more than US $6 per hour?

― Benjamin, Thursday, 17 October 2002 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Over an eight hour shift, I think maybe I'd rather be patronized with a dollar per drink served than have zero tips but an extra $32 in wages.

― Benjamin, Thursday, 17 October 2002 00:18 (twenty-two years ago)

running a bar in the US is such a good scam. your patrons are expected to chip in to pay your employees wages, and if they dont, they look like jerks!

― boxcubed (boxcubed), Thursday, 17 October 2002 00:20 (twenty-two years ago)

word

nabisco i do that all the time (unless i've pissed in it already)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 October 2002 00:25 (twenty-two years ago)

The US itself is a pretty good scam for much the same reason.

― Benjamin, Thursday, 17 October 2002 00:26 (twenty-two years ago)

that about sums up our brand of capitalism, yup.

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 17 October 2002 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, how many times do I have to tip the guy who hands me a paper towel in the men's room. Once seems sufficient to me. I don't even want him there.

― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 17 October 2002 03:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Me neither. He always forces me to make a whole separate trip to the toilet just to empty my piss-bottle.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 October 2002 03:22 (twenty-two years ago)

note to self: never ask for a sip of Tracer's water

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 17 October 2002 05:06 (twenty-two years ago)

even out of a straw

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 17 October 2002 05:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Expecting tipping and not including sales tax on price tags reeks of really dodgy marketing. I don't like the sound of it at all.

It's more dodgy even than making stuff $5.99 instead of $6 despite the fact that it gets rounded up to $6 at the cash register.

― toraneko (toraneko), Thursday, 17 October 2002 06:02 (twenty-two years ago)

The sales tax isn't included because it varies from county to county, and even from product to product. People who don't tip or tip poorly are the scum of the earth though. I've never felt more militantly communist than after being stiffed for a tip.

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 17 October 2002 06:09 (twenty-two years ago)

The sales tax varying from county to county and product to product sounds like the very *best* reason for it being included on the price tag - how the hell else are you meant to know how much you're going to end up paying for something?

Do people carry progammable calculators around with them when they do their shopping or something so the can work it all out?

Why bother putting prices on things at all if they're not the price that the buyer is going to pay? Crikey.

― toraneko (toraneko), Thursday, 17 October 2002 06:20 (twenty-two years ago)

People carry around big 'programmable' calculators.

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 17 October 2002 06:27 (twenty-two years ago)

In Scotland. I have never tipped a barman once, ever. Do people tip barmen in England? This is madness.

― david h (david h), Thursday, 17 October 2002 06:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Who tips taxi drivers??!?!?!!?!?! That's madness. People. The only place you tip is in RESTAURANTS!!! Surely!!!!!! ARRGGGHHH!!!!!

― david h (david h), Thursday, 17 October 2002 06:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Melbourne = Scotland. I am genuinely confounded by the tip craziness on this thread, esp. j.lu's post on tipping people who I would never tht of tipping. What about people in shops who sell you shellsuits, or music store clerks, or post men, or lecturers, strangers in the street with amusing hats?

― david h (david h), Thursday, 17 October 2002 06:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Europe in "why should I give a fuck about the working man" shocker!

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 17 October 2002 06:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Surely people responsible for a minimum wage that puts you at the mercy of strangers are the scum of the earth?

I almost expect that if one more person goes "Really? A dollar a drink?" you'll all go "Ha! Gotcha!".

I don't tip (and avoid the services of) the uniformly black men that in the last year have started appearing in bar toilets across Dublin and try to squirt you some soap/ tear off paper towels for you etc. Which gives me occasional twinges, but if this is the road it leads down, then fair enough. If they actually paid them a wage and took it out of the bar or something (read: I ever met one who was just having a day at work) then that'd be something. But people who have to be nice to you because they depend on your money isn't on. This is Europe, after all:)

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 17 October 2002 07:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, each to their own, James. I'm more favourable to our attitude to the working man, though our views may well be incompatible on this.

Really? A dollar a drink?

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 17 October 2002 07:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I tip TAXIS! Because I am very happy that they have not killed me! I also tip in RESTAURAUNTS but do not tip in BARS that is sheer mentalism. The only time where I would tip is if they give you yr change on a tray and it is a weeny amount/lots of coins that you can't be arsed with and then leave them.

If a lady said "and have one for yrself love" and pressed a warm fiver into the sweaty MAW of the barstaff she wd be accused of LECHING. Whenever I got tips in a pub it was only from people who were LECHING. I wd rather just be paid then again for $2.13p/h I wd be better off WALKING THE STREETS, christ almighty. Another mental note to NOT MOVE TO AMERICA. All this tipping madness wd not happen if there was a DECENT MINIMUM WAGE!

Sales tax = ------, I mean wot if you only have 25 cents left and you want a stick of GUM (coz gum chewing is as american as baseball) and then with sales tax you find yr 21 cent chewing gum is actually THIRTY ONE CENTS and you cannot have it! Ahem. Also you're left guessing as to your ACTUAL TOTAL!! Just include it in the price already! WHat benefit is there to not including it on the price?? THERE IS NONE! No sense is to be found! Finding sense is something that I cannot see!

Er.

― mojojojo (starry), Thursday, 17 October 2002 08:58 (twenty-two years ago)

sp 'restaurants'

― Sarah (starry), Thursday, 17 October 2002 09:00 (twenty-two years ago)

OOT (off-off-topic, which I guess means on-topic):
Wearing the same clothes two (or three!) days in a row under normal circumstances.

― Ernest P., Thursday, 17 October 2002 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

The other place to always tip is at the coffee shop where you get yr morning latte. $0.50 per drink isn't too much & if you always do it yr coffee will won't be rushed out. I'm always shocked when I go to NJ and NO ONE is tipping the barista, no wonder coffees taste so lousy!

And one more for the hotel- you should tip the doorman when he calls you a taxi. Or anywhere there's valet parking, $1 or $2 to the guy who brings your car back.

― lyra (lyra), Thursday, 17 October 2002 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Canadians rarely tip coffee people, mostly cause Tim Horton's isn't Starbucks.
And on extended trips, tip your hairdresser too people!
Unless its a bad haircut.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 17 October 2002 13:40 (twenty-two years ago)

david h, here in america, strangers on the street with amusing hats only get paid 2.83 an hour to wear those hats, and they rely on people tipping them (a dollar per amusment level of the hat, 2 dollars minimum if its a fez) to make their living. its simply rude to stare and not tip.

― amy (amy), Thursday, 17 October 2002 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Geez Louise! Enough about tipping!

My family had a foreign exchange student from France who reeked to high heaven. He didn't seem to bother with bathing and smoked like crazy. I never met him, but apparently my family actually gave him a bar of soap as a hint. Just recently, my sister met up with him and said he's looking really good these days - and VERY clean. Maybe my family was actually a good influence on someone! ha ha, but sorry for generalizing that to all Europeans...

I have another funny foreign exchange story. My fam had one from Italy when I was still in school. She didn't speak any English. We didn't speak any Italian. One afternoon, my mom told us (my sisters & I)that it was time to clean up the house. We were in big trouble. My sister came in the living room and, mistaking the exchange student (who was reading a magazine quietly) for me, cussed her out for not cleaning. She looked up with a very scared look in her eye. Whoops!

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Thursday, 17 October 2002 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, speaking of foreign exchange, I would advise any visiting Europeans not to pick up squirrels off the street and attempt to cuddle them like kittens.

― Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 17 October 2002 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Tim Horton's isn't Starbucks? I assume you means that's a good thing? All hail Tim and his maple donuts!

― Tag, Thursday, 17 October 2002 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Large English Toffee Cappucino from Tim Horton's.

There simply is not anything better to be found in this world.

― Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 17 October 2002 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I must one day explore this deep culinary mystery. But only with the help of expert guides.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 17 October 2002 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I am still stuck on the $2.13p/h thing. REALLY?

― Sarah (starry), Thursday, 17 October 2002 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Sarah, that's not the U.S. minimum wage. It's a special minimum wage for people in industries where a good portion of the income comes in tips. I don't think it's a very good idea, personally.

(The actual U.S. minimum wage is still around $5, right?)

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 17 October 2002 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

NB, though, one of the reasons that $2 type thing persists is that it's a perfectly great idea if you happen to work at, let's say, a trendy bar in a big city: serve 300 drinks in a night and that's $300 to take home, nevermind the $8 and change you got in actual "wages." This unfortunately doesn't stand up if you're handing out 50-cent cans of Pabst at a bar in Nebraska with two people in it.

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 17 October 2002 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Tim Horton's does the BEST everything bagels. And Soup & Bagel Deal #3. And boston cream donuts. And french cruellers. All this haute cuisine and no tipping required!

Sigh. Wish there was a Tim's in Manchester...

― elisabeth k, Thursday, 17 October 2002 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

This is specific to New Orleans, but the French tourists often get flustered because they'll ask directions to French-named places and no one knows where they're talking about cause they use the French pronunciation ("Chartres" here is "Charters," "Burgundy" is "burGUNdy," and I'd be able to think of the less obvious examples but I'm jet-laggy). American tourists tend to have the opposite problem, making up weird faux French -- I've been asked multiple times where "Chartreuse Street" was, and again, they were asking for Chartres.

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 17 October 2002 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Expecting tipping and not including sales tax on price tags reeks of really dodgy marketing.

It's not really 'marketing' per se, but more customary. There's probably something unconsiously appealing or proper to Americans about not knowing exactly how much something is going to cost. It gets easy once you're used to it. For example, in California, you can expect 8.5% sales tax. At meals the price is the menu price + 8.5% sales tax + I then I double the sales tax (more or less) for the tip. One thing to note is that there's no sales tax or tipping on most food items at the Supermarket.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 17 October 2002 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I've heard it said that they tie together in the way Spencer suggests: The sales tax is there so you know how much to tip!

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 17 October 2002 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Dear God this thread is still about tipping! For gods sake fellow Brits - just pretend you're paying All Bar One prices and get used to it.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 17 October 2002 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Smoking probably could be added to this list, but this isn't a development I'm neccesarily happy about (even if I know it's a good thing). European tourists do seem somewhat clueless, mispronounce words (using the French pronunciation of certain New Orleans locations isn't an error restricted to the French I'm afraid. Plenty of non-Louisianans do this also), wear awful clothes, possess a lack of familiarity with certain local customs but I think this is a state common to all tourists, nevermind the nationality (see the ...Americans while visiting Europe thread).

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 17 October 2002 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Their jeans are a little too... stonewashed.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 17 October 2002 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Females: do not have short but not expensively coiffeured hair, fail to wear makeup, and wear all-black/dark (my jeans are certainly not too stonewashed, but I expect my love of indigo jeans is an international fashion faux pas also) scruffy clothes, you will be continually assumed to be male and about 10. Then again it's only me that does that and it doesn't really do me any favours in this country but at least when anyone causes trouble over it I know they know I'm not and are only mocking me and I should be grateful (and start walking faster) because they haven't beaten me up yet.

― Rebecca (reb), Thursday, 17 October 2002 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

More importantly - how did we let Suzy get away with this one above:
"In the greater scheme of things, $1 tip on a drink is not bad. American drinks are way stronger anyway

Surely some mistake - US Budwiser is what 2.8% (as opposed to UK Budweiser which is 5%). Spirit based drinks maybe...

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 17 October 2002 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

In the US, "drinks" imply spirits (gin, tequila, rum, vodka, whiskey, liquers, etc). If you want to go out for beers, you say so; "drinks" implies you're gonna git jiggy wid da 'tini, NOWHAMEAN?

(Dear God, where did that come from?)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 17 October 2002 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually noticed the no-tipping bar person thing in the UK.. once when I ordered a martini on my own I tipped the barguy and he gave me a funny look. Maybe he thought I was leching?

― Mandee, Thursday, 17 October 2002 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Mandee: were you?

Canadians: do Tim Horton's still sell the delicacy they call "Tim Horton's Bits"?

― Benjamin, Thursday, 17 October 2002 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

There's probably something unconsiously appealing or proper to Americans about not knowing exactly how much something is going to cost.

I think it sucks not knowing how much something is going to ultimately cost.

― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 17 October 2002 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I realized that none of this extra $$ for tipping & tax ever bothers me EXCEPT when I go to a restaurant w/friends, (college students always do this!) one or two people will ALWAYS neglect to chip in for their share of the tax and tip, and the rest, who don't at all want to be rude and short the staff on the tip, end up paying extra.. It's the best when you end up paying twice what your actual food costs, once tax & tip & covering for others is figured in.
What's gotten ridiculous now in the US is the little tip jars on the counter at various fast-food places and the counters of coffee shops. I think that's taking it a bit too far.

― daria g, Thursday, 17 October 2002 23:13 (twenty-two years ago)

i tip everyone i meet

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 17 October 2002 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

In the US, "drinks" imply spirits (gin, tequila, rum, vodka, whiskey, liquers, etc). If you want to go out for beers, you say so; "drinks" implies you're gonna git jiggy wid da 'tini, NOWHAMEAN?

Says who?

― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 17 October 2002 23:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Daria, I have that problem with a few of my friends -I end up putting in $8-10 more than I owe. I have noticed a lot of them neglect not only the tip, but also the tax--they'll throw in an extra 75 cents atop the price of their meal and just call it even which it is NOT. You'd think after a while some people would notice, but I have been dining with some of these friends for 5+ years now and nothing's changed.

― Mandee, Thursday, 17 October 2002 23:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Hear about the guy who spent 10 years circumcising elephants?

Sure, the wages were poor, but the tips were huge!

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 17 October 2002 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Canadians: do Tim Horton's still sell the delicacy they call "Tim Horton's Bits"?
Hell yeah, Timbits rock like a pack of hungry ducks.
See Your Favorite Donut? for more info

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 18 October 2002 00:25 (twenty-two years ago)

And Tim Hortons is open 24 hours! Really, there should be a whole thread devoted to the wonder of Tim.

― Nicole (Nicole), Friday, 18 October 2002 00:26 (twenty-two years ago)

us bud is 5%, bud light is 5.5%. it's a selling point. the 5.9% restriction seems to be just a gesture, you can find microbrews up to 14%

― boxcubed (boxcubed), Friday, 18 October 2002 00:31 (twenty-two years ago)

i turned into a one-way street the wrong way on two separate occasions today. one was an easy recovery, the other was more embarassing.

Also the guy at the diner this morning was amused that i said petrol station, but then he was from bombay and was just pleased, as that's what he used to call them too.

― Alan (Alan), Friday, 18 October 2002 00:38 (twenty-two years ago)

actually, the alcohol content is not just a gesture. If it's over that percentage, it can't be called or sold as "beer". That means fewer places it can be sold. Actually Zima and all of these malt "beverages" are a kind of unique American reaction to that.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 18 October 2002 00:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought every place that can legally sell beer can also sell wine, which gets to 14% alcohol easily, so any high-alcohol "beer" can be sold there. I think the Zimas on the market are just an attempt to sell booze to people who don't like the taste of beer/wine/spirits.

― nickn (nickn), Friday, 18 October 2002 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

A lot of the malt beverages also exist partially to circumventally advertise their parent liquor brands (most tv/radio won't accept straightup liquor ads, but ads for Smirnoff Ice, etc. they have no problem with).

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 18 October 2002 04:26 (twenty-two years ago)

standingalittletooclosewhentalkingtopeople. Back up a little, plenty of room over here.

(also this is why Americans SHOUT and put bags on seats when in Europe -- we are spoiled for space)

― felicity (felicity), Friday, 18 October 2002 05:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Is our very own Tim Hopkins aware that his bits are a Canadian delicacy?

― Tag, Friday, 18 October 2002 07:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Surely it's a case of, tip if the sevice is good, don't if its not? Well thats certainly the way in the UK - and it seems a very obvious way to do things. Tell me thats how it works in the US of A...

― rigel (rigel), Friday, 18 October 2002 08:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark - do you mean, like, physically?

A plateau, a tree. Two men
one is Mark Sinker.

Mark S: motions towards the other man, tipping him over by the hips Whoops!

― david h (david h), Friday, 18 October 2002 09:33 (twenty-two years ago)

This is the best thread ever!

I'm off to Denver in 9 days for my third trip to the States. I now know the deal with hotel porters, sales tax, and drinks (which i was fortunately warned about on my first visit). Can anyone tell me if Denver is likely to be significantly cheaper than NYC?

As for men hanging around in toilets, I tip on the first wee but not after that. And if you know my bladder, that's only about 10p per urination! Mwahahaha!

Embarrassing things Brits do in Dublin: go to THE post office and ask for a first class stamp. Oops.

― Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 18 October 2002 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

If it's over that percentage, it can't be called or sold as "beer".

Im seriously doubting this. Its a pain in the ass to get your beer over 5-6%, its the same reason wine is often 12%ish due to the method of brewering. Being a beer is defined by its brewing process and ingrediants and not alcohol content.
http://www.samadams.com/beer/styles/millennium.html
Sam Adams Millennium clocks in a 19.5-20% and goes for $200US a bottle.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 18 October 2002 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Can anyone tell me if Denver is likely to be significantly cheaper than NYC?

This is about as likely as water being wet. (Very few US cities are as expensive as NYC; the only ones I can think of off-hand are Boston, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 October 2002 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

The only time you should tip a toilet attendant is if you use any of the stuff they have on their trays (otherwise I just feel all 'fuck off, stop staring'). Also people I know who use Class A's in clubs tend to leave a big tip so the attendant turns a blind eye to two pairs of shoes in one cubicle.

Pete: to clarify, by DRINKS I did indeed mean cocktails or glasses of wine, not horrid icky BEER, which I avoid. Dan is correct in his assumption and horrid icky beer gives me two-day headaches.

― suzy (suzy), Friday, 18 October 2002 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Says who?

I thought a lot of people made that distinction! I always know what type of night it's going to be like if someone wants to go out for "drinks" (trendy place, "beautiful people", dress up and bring the credit card) or "beers" (more established place, "local scene", wear a t-shirt and relax).

As for men hanging around in toilets[...]

BE MORE SPECIFIC. Eep.

(I want to know why my bits aren't a delicacy in Canada. Pout pout pout.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 October 2002 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I want to know why my bits aren't a delicacy in Canada.

They are, but they can only be devoured on the Queen's birthday.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 18 October 2002 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

A friend of mine who lives in Ohio says they're in the process (or were, when I talked to him about it a month ago) of passing a new law relating to alcohol content and what can legally be sold as beer -- so yes, there is some connection between the two at least in Ohio, but it might vary by state (and there may be some which don't set a limit at all).

Back to tipping, though. When you're at a restaurant with a bar, and you're at a table served by a waitress, do you tip the bartender separately when you order drinks? I never have, but I went out to dinner with someone once who said you should.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 18 October 2002 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

You only tip at the bar if you get drinks at the bar. Your friend has too much money.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 October 2002 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

so yes, there is some connection between the two at least in Ohio

And on that note, JD isn't a Bourbon. Despite it tasting like a bourbon, smelling like one, looking like one and being made like a sour mash bourbon but cause the government gave it leeway for charcol filtering water once upon a time its JD and not a bourbon.
So despite all the government legislation and classification, JD is still a bourbon and high percentage beer is still a beer if its brewed as a beer.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 18 October 2002 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

A $200 bottle of beer has "asshole" written all over it.

It's things like this that make me not mind so much the collapse of the internet economy.

― Benjamin, Friday, 18 October 2002 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

A $200 bottle of beer has "asshole" written all over it.

The one without goes for $500.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 October 2002 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

JD isn't bourbon because it's not made in Kentucky - though what it actually IS I have no idea (what it says on the bottle - "whiskey" - is certainly incorrect, as was pointed out to me by an irate customer in Belgravia's "The Antelope" who said his "whiskey smelled of banahnas")

― Pedantish Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 18 October 2002 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

(haha that story belongs on the other thread)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 18 October 2002 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Can anyone tell me if Denver is likely to be significantly cheaper than NYC?

Denver is super cheap, Mark. Which explains why I'll pay $200/month for rent.

― Mandee, Friday, 18 October 2002 17:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I forgot what they said the bottles were going for on the internet. JD is a bourbon, Kentucky be dammed.

From the JD webstite:
"Charcoal Mellowing is what makes Jack Daniel's a smooth sippin' Tennessee Whiskey instead of a bourbon. "

Its a Bourbon whose water has been charcoled filter, which is probably a standard procedure for all alcohol brewers now days.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 18 October 2002 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Which explains why I'll pay $200/month for rent.

That, and the 'arrangement' with the landlord.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 18 October 2002 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

― Mandee, Friday, 18 October 2002 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Farmer's daughters.

― Going back to the original question... (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 October 2002 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

whats wrong with farmers daughters? They need loving too.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 18 October 2002 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but it's such a cliche.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 18 October 2002 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

embarrassing things europeans do while visiting America..

two words: reebok classics.

― fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Friday, 18 October 2002 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

heh heh

the all-blonde families in the subway kind of give themselves away too... but i'm going to stop short of suggesting they wear caps or something because i bet they'd wear a "baseball" cap with like five different patches on it kind of "randomly" placed on different parts of the cap, saying things like "Team 2000" and "Par Avion"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 18 October 2002 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

four months pass...

Two things need to be pointed out.

1. In the US, liquor laws vary not only by state, but frequently by county as well.

b. It's appropriate to tip $1 per Abercrombie T-shirt purchased

and

3. Only tip the bell-hop if he ends up staying the night.

And now back to the revived all tipping, all the time thread...

― Skottie, Tuesday, 11 March 2003 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

i see a group of Obvious Europeans chug into my fave deli yesterday like a row of frightened ducks; they look about for a minute as if everything is too bright and say absolutely nothing to anyone except the look on their face that says "where are we? aiiiiiiiie!!!!!" and then - oblivious or willfuly ignoring the proprietor's tentative advances to purchase some of his meaty comestibles or vitamin-enriched juices - indicated by an open hand waved towards the cases of California Wraps and Yoo-Hoo and a generous grin - they exited, waddling

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

eleven months pass...

Wow, two threads with EXACTLY THE SAME TITLE!

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

that's like crossing the the streams isn't it¿

― dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 15:55 (twenty-one years ago)

PRAISING BIN LADEN!

― gaol clichy (clichy), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

(some) english people seem to treat hip hop music and culture like a giant cliche, and go yeah-bwoy, talk about bee-eatches, think they're being funny.
i once saw an english git scared out of his wits after he tried a random drunken "what up dogg" to a black new yorker in a bar...

― paulhw (paulhw), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 22:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, two threads with EXACTLY THE SAME TITLE!

And, for a brief, beautiful moment, they're right next to each other on the New Answers page.

But not now.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 22:20 (twenty-one years ago)

when they always ask "have you ever seen a policeman shoot someone"?

I mean, please! No, every day is NOT shootout at O.K. Corral.

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I think you mean "no, not every day is shootout at the O.K. corral."

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

A lot of them also overestimate our level of violence.

this is OTM
I had one old friend ask me "is there a lot of MURDER where you live?". Errrr, no.

Also - get pissed off at all of my visiting friends/family making a big deal when I use my debit card for coffee or magazines. THIS IS THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 23:28 (nineteen years ago)

saying they're going to "america" when they really mean "new york city" or "chicago" or new york city and then chicago"

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 00:09 (nineteen years ago)

"A lot of them also overestimate our level of violence."

This reminds of that bit in Barcelona.

"saying they're going to "america" when they really mean "new york city" or "chicago" or new york city and then chicago""

I think it's fair to say you are visiting America if you are visiting more than one city. I mean I would say I was visiting Germany if I was going to Berlin and then Munich. Or Europe if I was going to London and then Barcelona. It's just verbal short-hand.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 00:19 (nineteen years ago)

embarrassing things Europeans do while visiting America ...
http://static.flickr.com/30/42699438_5b6c0cc023.jpg
... a lot of them also overestimate our level of violence.

― literalisp (literalisp), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 00:20 (nineteen years ago)

Okay, not European but Australian - demanding to drive, then blowing through 4-way stops laughing your head off at the "suckers" that stopped at them. Also, complaining at every restaurant at the number of decisions you are expected to make: ranch, italian, blue cheese, french, 1000 island? butter, sour cream, chives, cheese, bacon? white, whole wheat, sourdough, english muffin, biscuit? We are all about choice, what do you expect?! And on the biscuit issue - don't be all shocked when it is more scone, less cookie.

― Jaq (Jaq), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 00:27 (nineteen years ago)

I think it's fair to say that you are visiting America when you are visiting New York, or Chicago, or anywhere else that's in, you know, America.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 00:33 (nineteen years ago)

Also, complaining at every restaurant at the number of decisions you are expected to make: ranch, italian, blue cheese, french, 1000 island?

(hahaha)

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 00:36 (nineteen years ago)

clearly SOME people haven't read the companion thread

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 00:43 (nineteen years ago)

Haha I didn't. Oh Adam why?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 00:51 (nineteen years ago)

clearly SOME people don't understand the difference between a country and a continent, and the fact that many Britons do not regard themselves as European

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 00:53 (nineteen years ago)

but they are

baker yr dead

― sunny successor (katharine), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 00:58 (nineteen years ago)

yes. i don't understand that. i mean they both have c's, don't they?!!!???

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 00:59 (nineteen years ago)

you're a c

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 01:00 (nineteen years ago)

Is Turkey part of Europe yet? If so, don't bring us the bird flu!

― andy ---, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 01:11 (nineteen years ago)

i'm getting this vague sense that rjg doesn't like me

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 01:19 (nineteen years ago)

For those sitting at the bar, the common approach is to have a little stack of money from which the bartender will, upon occasion, remove the sum that represents your drink.

???? I have never seen this done.

― kickitcricket (kickitcricket), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 02:10 (nineteen years ago)

demanding to drive, then blowing through 4-way stops laughing your head off at the "suckers" that stopped at them.

Eh? We have 4 way non-light stops here too and people know to stop at stop signs. Not doing so isn't australian so much as just stupid, I think! =)

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 03:01 (nineteen years ago)

~~demanding to drive, then blowing through 4-way stops laughing your head off at the "suckers" that stopped at them.~~
being annoying cunts

― A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 04:02 (nineteen years ago)

I have never seen this done.

I haven't noticed it in a while, but it happens, especially in bars that aren't too busy. Maybe the increase in people paying their tabs with credit cards has made this less common nowadays.

― Chris F. (servoret), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 07:12 (nineteen years ago)

What about saying America when you are going to let´s say Quebec or Argentina? I suppose that by US standards that´s incorrect as well

― olenska (olenska), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 11:05 (nineteen years ago)

I could see the quebecois getting offended, maybe.

― Lars and Jagger (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 11:49 (nineteen years ago)

Also - get pissed off at all of my visiting friends/family making a big deal when I use my debit card for coffee or magazines. THIS IS THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY.

-- adamrl

Okay, I do find that weird. Adam, my dear, I'm afraid you've gone native.

― Anna (Anna), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:11 (nineteen years ago)

I think it's kind of weird myself but then I am weird about using debit or credit cards.

― Lars and Jagger (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:15 (nineteen years ago)

adam is right

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:26 (nineteen years ago)

saying they're going to "america" when they really mean "new york city" or "chicago" or new york city and then chicago"

lol?

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:32 (nineteen years ago)

are those in canada?

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:32 (nineteen years ago)

oh i see that other thread now. it's embarrassing if you say you're going to "North America" when you mean "The United States of America" i think.

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 12:38 (nineteen years ago)

Also - get pissed off at all of my visiting friends/family making a big deal when I use my debit card for coffee or magazines. THIS IS THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY.
-- adamrl

Okay, I do find that weird. Adam, my dear, I'm afraid you've gone native.

-- Anna (Fieldingann...), January 18th, 2006 12:11 PM. (Anna) (later)

I don't get this - it's weird to buy things with a debit card? WTF? I think debit cards are quite widespread in the UK, surely? I've had one for 12 years!

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:12 (nineteen years ago)

I got chased out of a restaurant in Stamford CT for tipping less than 15%. Actually it was around 10%. This was after they sent out completely wrong orders TWICE and cursory & rude service too. The guy followed me out waving the bill and shouting 'was everything alright SIR?, is this my tip SIR?'. My wife said, actually the food was shit and your service was even worse. I feel a fool for tipping them at all - is this ever done?

― Dr.C (Dr.C), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:21 (nineteen years ago)

Fuck em, I say.

― Mr Pink (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:28 (nineteen years ago)

I use my debit card to pay for small purchases sometimes, if I don't have the right money. Clerks welcome it, means they don't have to search around for change.

Dr.C's story frightens me.

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:30 (nineteen years ago)

xpost - I think what Adam's getting at is that some (British?) people still consider debit cards to be basically credit cards, so using them for small amounts of money freaks some people out. Halfway to The Dude writing a check for 90c in The Big Lebowski.

But I could be wrong.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:31 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, that's exactly it. I feel really guilty if I use one for a purchase of less than £10.

― filled the fjords of my brain (kate), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:34 (nineteen years ago)

In the uk most places have a £5 minimum fee for debit/credit card transactions, as the retailer has to pay a fee. So paying for a cup of coffee or paper with a debit card is not the norm

― Vicky (Vicky), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:36 (nineteen years ago)

And you hold up the queue.

― Dr.C (Dr.C), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:39 (nineteen years ago)

and they can follow you and know what you're spending your money on and where and secretly analyse you and store the information to use against you at a later date.

― emsk ( emsk), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:40 (nineteen years ago)

The minimum transaction thing is all but gone now. Except for Baker's Oven, who don't accept cards AT ALL WTF

― tissp! (the impossible shortest specia), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:41 (nineteen years ago)

Actually no I remember asking about this and I think most places have a minimum transaction of 27p.

― tissp! (the impossible shortest specia), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:41 (nineteen years ago)

I suppose I was thinking coffee & magazines would cost more than 5 quid, but I use my debit card all the time in supermarkets for around £8-10, with chip & pin it's no slower than waiting for the cashier to count your change.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:44 (nineteen years ago)

if you've tried to purchase a single jam doughnut using a debit card i salute you (xpost)

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:44 (nineteen years ago)

Hey I've bought a pack a chewing gum with a debit card several times, although that was to get cashback

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:45 (nineteen years ago)

they don't have minimum transactions but they'll charge you 50p if it's for less than a fiver.

― emsk ( emsk), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:46 (nineteen years ago)

I once tipped $1 for a meal for 2 in Boston, MA, because they were fucking shit. No-one chased me out, though.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:49 (nineteen years ago)

i am nearly cashless! i use my debit card for purchases 99% of the time. ALSO some places have that weird gadget where all you have to do is wave your card in front of this weird SENSOR

also, how come people think a tip is like starting at 0% and you work your way up based on 'performance' - 15% is the base, simple as that.

― POOP BITCH (Mandee), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:52 (nineteen years ago)

What is the point of even having tips, if not to promote good service?

I mean, granted, the service has to be pretty darn poor to make me not tip. But still. There is a reason that it is at the customer's discretion!

― filled the fjords of my brain (kate), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:54 (nineteen years ago)

15% is the base, simple as that

The base for decent service, maybe. NOT the base for some sulky teen chucking your food at you, making you wait 45 mins and getting your order wrong.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:56 (nineteen years ago)

I generally give 20% or more (if the bill is low and the service is particularly good), but I give 15% for unenthusiastic service. And on occasion, have tipped ~10% for shitty service, and even then I thought it was too much.

― D.I.Y. U.N.K.L.E. (dave225.3), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

HI DERE could we not have that part of the thread re-enacted all over again?

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

i've been followed out of a restaurant once before. i was out for dinner with a group of people at a fairly upscale restaurant (in the u.s.), and the person who was picking up the tab was english. we were there for quite some time, ran up a large bill, and received great service throughout. as we were leaving, the manager came after us and asked to speak to me (i was the last person out of the door). he said "i was wondering if there was a problem with your service?", to which i replied that there wasn't. he then told me that we had tipped 8%. i was mortified, gave him cash, and then had to explain what had happened to the brit. very awkward.

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

So .. you mean we should start a new thread on it? Becasue I think there is one already...

― D.I.Y. U.N.K.L.E. (dave225.3), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

i think that was his point, asking for it NOT to be re-enacted all over again. am i right?

― Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:15 (nineteen years ago)

I don't like being served

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

So like, ILX should not repeat topics?

― D.I.Y. U.N.K.L.E. (dave225.3), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

What about saying America when you are going to let´s say Quebec or Argentina? I suppose that by US standards that´s incorrect as well

don't you follow the same 7-continent model the US does? the one that refers only to North America and South America? there is a nation commonly called America (just as there is a nation commonly called Great Britain, rather than the United Kingdom of Great Britain and NOrthern Ireland), but no continent called that. the only correct alternative I can think of, and barely so, would be "the Americas".

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

I found it weird because most coffee places/ news agents don't take cards. At all. I'd be happy to buy a magzine with a card in a supermarket or Borders or somewhere.

― Anna (Anna), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 15:36 (nineteen years ago)

I worked at a restaurant in CO where a Brazilian family of 6 came in and ran up at $600 bill (at LUNCH) and then tipped ZERO percent. The waitress's head nearly exploded.

She chased them out and didn't even do that fake polite shit upthread. She just REAMED them. I think the manager ended up tipping her out of his own pocket or something.

― gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

way upthread:
the minimum wage of tipped employees ($2.13 per hour).

what the fuck? that's like £1.20 an hour or something? why isn't there a revolution? why do they even bother having a minimum wage if it's so low - why do they have a wage at all? they might as well just say "come and serve drinks here and rely on the kindness of strangers to pay your rent"

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:01 (nineteen years ago)

they might as well just say "come and serve drinks here and rely on the kindness of strangers to pay your rent"

That sort of is what they say.

― gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

This is why there's a living wage movement afoot.

― Jaq (Jaq), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:09 (nineteen years ago)

Europe in "why should I give a fuck about the working man" shocker!
-- James Blount (littlejohnnyjewe...), October 17th, 2002.

― lolz, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:09 (nineteen years ago)

So who else basically doesn't get paid in America? Everyone who gets a tip? Taxi drivers? Hotel porters / maids?

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:14 (nineteen years ago)

When we lived in Oxford, there was a deli with signs up about their no-tipping policy ("we pay a good competitive wage so that our employees don't have to rely on tips," etc etc), but they've since franchised all over the southeast, and I'm sure the policy hasn't held up. There are no "no tipping" signs up at the one in Tupelo, so I tip there. I wonder if there are Mc4list3r's employees all over who wonder about the deadbeats, not knowing that there are a lot of Oxford residents for whom not tipping was de rigeur and think it might still be in effect.

― truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:23 (nineteen years ago)

The reason why wait staff and bartenders get 15% to 20% is because they generally earn close to the minmum wage. Maids, depending on the place you're staying should get $5/$10/$20 a day and leave it under the pillow so no-one else gets it. The bellboy can make his tips from carrying bags. My barber gets a couple bucks. My cab driver gets the same (but mostly 'cause cab rides are invariably short in San Francisco). I seem to recall that there was a high-end restaurant in NYC that was doing away with tipping and adding on a %15 or 17% surcharge that would be passed on to the employees. I do know that I went to a Starbucks in a Safeway once (I know. I know. Double fault.) and was not allowed to tip the teenaged barrista because it wasn't allowed by Safeway due to a wage agreement, which I thought rather sad. Hopefully, Starbucks made up for the difference.

Americans and Europeans can argue ad infinitum about which system is better and they both have their pros and cons but not tipping for sevice in America is as culturally insensitive as anything 'ugly Americans' do abroad.

If you really wanted to go over this with a fine-toothed comb, you'd talk about the various embarrassing things different Europeans do when visiting each other's countries.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:33 (nineteen years ago)

James Surowiecki of the New Yorker on the economics of tipping

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:33 (nineteen years ago)

Teh HoBB, it depends on the state. For instance, in Washington state, waitstaff are paid at least minimum wage by law, while in Arizona they are not.

― Jaq (Jaq), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:38 (nineteen years ago)

not tipping for sevice in America is as culturally insensitive as anything 'ugly Americans' do abroad.

M. White is sitting atop a pile of cash equivalent to total of all tips ever given, anywhere.

― RickyT (RickyT), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:49 (nineteen years ago)

i got paid under minimum wage in britain when i was a waiter (£4 p/h instead of £4.50) cos waiting staff are exempt from it, ostensibly cos you will earn over the minimum wage in tips. but you only get tips if you have customers, right? and this restaurant had about 1/2 tables per night on avergae. so between 3 waiting staff, we often ended up below minimum wage. so tipping as a means of making a living wage sucks i think, its too variant on other factors. but enough of this argument already.

― ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:54 (nineteen years ago)

Sorry - I didn't mean to turn this into another 'Americans and their head-spinning tipping ways' thread.

-- N. (nickdastoo...), October 16th, 2002. (nickdastoor)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:58 (nineteen years ago)

they wear crap jeans

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:58 (nineteen years ago)

there is a nation commonly called America

I've heard that US citizens claiming that their country is "America" is made fun of in Mexico and Latin America, hence the generic term "norteamericanos" for people in the US and Canada.

― mike h. (mike h.), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:00 (nineteen years ago)

Mexicans are technically norteamericanos too.

I know Italian and Spanish have an adjectival form of 'from or of the United States'.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:16 (nineteen years ago)

I know Italian and Spanish have an adjectival form of 'from or of the United States'.

Really? I never heard it in Italy, they just said 'americani'. However, I've met lots of South Americans who get really irritated when you say 'America' to mean 'the USA'.

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:31 (nineteen years ago)

Mexicans and Latin Americans are taught the 6-continent combined-America model (distinguish the 6-continent Eurasia model) that is also taught in Asia (except Japan), but not in Western Europe, Canada, the US or Australia

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:33 (nineteen years ago)

so yes, America is a continent for billions of people, none of whom, afaik, are represented on this message board

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:37 (nineteen years ago)

the thing with paying with debit card is that you have to wait for the little thing to go "doo doo doo dodododoodododododood dodoodooododododo doodododo dodooddo" and it takes ages so if it's for like a penny sweet it seems like a waste of everyone's time, when you can just use your penny.

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:54 (nineteen years ago)

The link to that article is hilarious. I would never tip extra somebody who offered me candy once, let alone twice. Squatting next to me, touching me on the shoulder won't do the trick either. I don't go to restaurants to have people act like they are my friend , just do your work properly and in a polite way and I'll be glad to leave you a proper tip, please don't resort to such idiotic behaviour.

― Jibé (Jibé), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:55 (nineteen years ago)

in hong kong they use their equvalent of oyster cards "known as octopus" to pay for little things now, because it's quick and convenient (you go BEEP and you've paid it) hopefully london will have that soon

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:56 (nineteen years ago)

oops should be brackets rather than quotation marks

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 17:56 (nineteen years ago)

but it'd never work here what with people inevitably using stolen cards to beep stuff, even if it is just for little things.

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:00 (nineteen years ago)

Wait, stevem, you don't think adam is using his OWN card, do you?

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:02 (nineteen years ago)

steve surely you'd be the first one to realise you can phone ahead to cancel the card when it's lost/stolen before someone uses it.

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:03 (nineteen years ago)

Jibe, I think the point is not that you're consciously thinking, "That nice waitress touched me on the shoulder, she deserves a big tip!" -- but rather that everything she does is fostering this general sense of goodwill that will have an effect on you when you reach for your wallet.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:12 (nineteen years ago)

I've said this before, but it's totally ridiculous for people to get upset over using "America" to mean the US. For better or worse, it's the name of the country: it's the United States of America, kind of like the People's Republic of China or the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. If anything's fucked-up and odd, it's the fact that places like the US and UK are so widely known by the designations of their governmental system (states, kingdom) instead of the functional place-name part (America, Great Britain).

So next time some Venezuelan bitches about Americans being Americans, ask them how things are going back home in the Bolivarian Republic of.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:14 (nineteen years ago)

I mean, it's like saying "Vietnamese people are 'Chinese' too!"

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:17 (nineteen years ago)

Or, less outrageously, "Sri Lankans are Indian too."

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:18 (nineteen years ago)

"That nice waitress touched me on the shoulder, she deserves a big tip!"

Uhh.... Oh, nevermind.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:22 (nineteen years ago)

Squatting next to me or on me would certainly guarentee a big hard tip

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:30 (nineteen years ago)

To be honest, it wasn't really the part about a waitress touching my shoulder or squatting next to me (which I've never seen done and don't really wish to see) that truly bothered me, more the one about candy. Offering candy won't foster a general sense of goodwill, it's more like I'd be asking myself questions as to whether I'm in a restaurant or ... I dunno, I can't even think of one place where you're offered candy, but a restaurant would be one of the last places I'd expect people to offer such things.

― Jibé (Jibé), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:31 (nineteen years ago)

You've never seen squatting? Where do you live?

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:33 (nineteen years ago)

In Paris, so I guess it's an American thing. All the places I've been to the waiter is standing when taking my order. Same when I lived in India.

― Jibé (Jibé), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:35 (nineteen years ago)

I'd probably be an embarrassed European while visiting America if a waiter squatted next to me.

― Jibé (Jibé), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:37 (nineteen years ago)

I'd be an embarrased American if a waiter squatted next to me

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:39 (nineteen years ago)

"known as octopus"

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:40 (nineteen years ago)

It all depends on the tenor of the place, though, doesn't it. If a waitress squats down next to you at a booth in a diner and calls you 'honey', it's quaint. If she does this at a high end restaurant, you wonder what the management are smoking.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:44 (nineteen years ago)

Or those restaurants where the waiter writes his name on your paper tablecloth with a crayon.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

There are a couple of restaurants in Paris (I imagine that once they were ubiquitous) such as Chartier where they clip white butcher paper to one's table and the waiters write up your bill on it at the end.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:04 (nineteen years ago)

"For those sitting at the bar, the common approach is to have a little stack of money from which the bartender will, upon occasion, remove the sum that represents your drink.
???? I have never seen this done.
-- kickitcricket (kickitcricke...), January 18th, 2006."

This is sort of old fashioned, but you still see it a lot in dive bars.

― Mugged Outside the Jabberjaw, 1993 (Bent Over at the Arclight), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:05 (nineteen years ago)

I generally give 20% or more (if the bill is low and the service is particularly good), but I give 15% for unenthusiastic service. And on occasion, have tipped ~10% for shitty service, and even then I thought it was too much.
-- D.I.Y. U.N.K.L.E. (right.knewi...), January 18th, 2006.

haha i thought for a second you meant you tipped negative 10%, like hittin up the register after paying - gangsta!!

― ,,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:08 (nineteen years ago)

xpost i tried to do the stack thing last weekend and dude just gave me all my $$$ back

― ,,, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:08 (nineteen years ago)

In old San Francisco bars, it's considered bad form to leave a stack of bills on the bar unless they're the tip kitty and a good bartender should take that away every round anyway.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:16 (nineteen years ago)

I seem to recall that there was a high-end restaurant in NYC that was doing away with tipping and adding on a %15 or 17% surcharge that would be passed on to the employees.

There are restaurants in SF that do this too.

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:17 (nineteen years ago)

Bloody reds!

Who, Steve?

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:18 (nineteen years ago)

i love waiters who squat! they are such CHILL DUDES!!

― POOP BITCH (Mandee), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:24 (nineteen years ago)

I forgot the UK had the 5 pound limit thing. But still, I am practically cashless - also you don't need to SIGN for most of these small things so swiping your card takes about as much time as it does for somebody to count out the change.

I think we also determined that it is more prevalent on the West Coast on this thread:

I got a free cup of coffee!

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:25 (nineteen years ago)

BTW, the reason there's no server revolution is that the tipping system, in decent establishments, is to the server's great advantage. If the extra pay came in the form of wages, then it'd get passed on into the price of the food, which customers are more likely to be responsible and thrifty about; after that, it'd get run through the restaurant's till, giving management an opportunity to squeeze a cut out of it; and after that, it'd be fully reported and taxable. Whereas tips get given in a moment where the customer is well-fed and mostly just wants to get out of the restaurant; if you don't have proper change, you might just over-tip for speed's sake; if you're using a credit card, you're just writing down abstract numbers and can afford to be generous. And most importantly, psychologically, you don't feel like being a dick or a cheapskate. Being sensible about the cost of the entrees makes you feel good and wise; penny-pinching the tip makes you feel like a miser and makes you look like a small person in front of your dinner companions. If I had to get my cut at either of those points, I'd take the magnanimous after-dinner tip every time, especially given that the generation of hard-ass tippers is basically fading away -- can you imagine anyone under the age of 45 pulling anything like that old-man move where they put the tip on the table when they sit down and then subtract from it every time they're annoyed?

That doesn't quite hold for cheap diners and such, meaning once again the people who most need the money are the least likely to get it -- but that's just like an estate-tax deal, that American mentality where people aspire to move up in the world rather than agitating for whatever spot they're in.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:26 (nineteen years ago)

Some of the waiters I know who work in nice restaurants end up making serious cash.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:30 (nineteen years ago)

Also - why do English people get all het up about these "bizarre" (yet convenient) US customs when they obviously make perfect sense? You know if they were introduced to the UK it would only take a month before everyone would go on about how fabulous they are. English people!

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:35 (nineteen years ago)

Go ahead, call me a fascist! I'll be in the parking lot while you're still at the back of the line.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:36 (nineteen years ago)

sorry, CARPARK QUEUE

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:36 (nineteen years ago)

I seem to recall that there was a high-end restaurant in NYC that was doing away with tipping and adding on a %15 or 17% surcharge that would be passed on to the employees.

this was per se (thomas keller's restaurant).
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/16/pf/tips/index.htm

― danielle the animal steel (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:41 (nineteen years ago)

(I know someone said this before, but can't find it) Because putting the power over whether the waiter actually makes minimum wage into the hands of the customer is fundamentally fucked in the head, and leads to American nonsense like "service with a smile". No-one should be penalized at work because they're miserable (but functional) all day.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 19:49 (nineteen years ago)

My 40-something single white male neighbor gets free apple pies at McDonalds because (he thinks) all the young honeys who are working there want to settle down with him. Ha ha ha.

― A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 20:18 (nineteen years ago)

Who doesn't want to settle down with a 40-something guy with the body of a frequent McDonalds apple-pie eater?

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 20:19 (nineteen years ago)

Because putting the power over whether the waiter actually makes minimum wage into the hands of the customer is fundamentally fucked in the head, and leads to American nonsense like "service with a smile"

but if you DO take it away you'll be left with mcdonalds style service for your $$$ meal.

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 20:24 (nineteen years ago)

i can only recall one or two times in my life when i had egregiously bad service at a fast food restaurant.

― danielle the animal steel (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 20:30 (nineteen years ago)

I haven't eaten fast food in too long. :(

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 20:30 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, i had some boston market a couple of months ago but aside from that i haven't really eaten fast food since over the summer.

― danielle the animal steel (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 20:32 (nineteen years ago)

I think that fast food service is kind of like the educational system. Even though the salaries are pretty similar.... say between rural Rhode Island and Providence proper, you end up getting better service in the sticks.

xpost: if only all chain fast food was as good as Boston Market.

― A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 20:33 (nineteen years ago)

No-one should be penalized at work because they're miserable (but functional) all day.

This actually brings up an interesting point. Americans might tend to disagree, saying that 'friendly' service is part of the job description and in starred restaurants in France, it doesn't quite pass either, amiability being considered part of the hospitableness offered by the house. I frankly don't care how warm someone is to me provided that they're quick, attentive, communicative, and can anticipate the more obvious needs of the table. Otoh, bad service in a restaurant which obliges you to pay a service fee makes my blood boil not only because of the servers but because the management isn't being fully professional. The American fiction that a server and customers are friends is annoying but the other side of the coin is that a customer should never be put into the position of having to care about the emotional state of an employee whose job it is to interact with the public. The employee is at work primarily for money not for personal reasons.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 20:41 (nineteen years ago)

i don't see a little basic empathy as being such a horrible thing.

― danielle the animal steel (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 20:45 (nineteen years ago)

Nor do I wish to imply that I do either. It's just that in certain places people seem to spend a lot of effort being friendly when what they clearly need to concentrate on is being competent.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 20:50 (nineteen years ago)

DING DING DING

― truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 21:12 (nineteen years ago)

That's actually an American problem well outside of just restaurants. There's a massive emphasis put on the friendly "just like home" qualities of things, to a point where the people who interact with customers are sometimes hired for their friendliness, perkiness, or attractiveness, seemingly more so than their ability to actually perform the tasks their given. I dunno, maybe this works; maybe that interaction is part of what they're successfully selling; maybe we really are more likely to visit the place with the hot flirty waitresses than the place with the blandly competent ones. But there are plenty of times when this doesn't seem to be the case.

As an aside, the main problem I have with expecting "service with a smile" from all proprietors is that it ironically runs totally counter to the ideas of meritocracy and opportunity that the people who talk this talk tend to believe in. If the people who serve you at McDonald's are a bit slow and surly, you could well say that's the free market in action: if they were all chipper and unctuous and spoke the king's English, they'd stand a good chance of working someplace that paid better! In which case you'd have to spend more money, and tip, in order to get access to their friendly, smiling service work.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 21:14 (nineteen years ago)

Except McDonald's service tends to be OK for two reasons: you don't have high expectations and it's often a starter level job.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 21:26 (nineteen years ago)

...maybe we really are more likely to visit the place with the hot flirty waitresses than the place with the blandly competent ones.

I'm pretty sure I'm more likely to revisit the place with the engaging AND competent staff.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 21:28 (nineteen years ago)

No-one should be penalized at work because they're miserable (but functional) all day.

I think food service is a special case and rightly so.
If the dude handing you a toolbox at Home Depot is an asshole, you can still be somewhat assured the toolbox is in working order, and if it isn't you go back (pissed off) and get a working one, whereas from surliness, lethargy and blase attitude in a waiter I think the general public might(rightly or wrongly) tend to extrapolate things like unclean, corner-cutting preparation and possibly mischief going on with the stuff going into your body, for which there's no quick and easy refund and definitely no repeat business if suspected. Restaurants putting (psychological)comfort at a premium doesn't strike me as quaint or arbitrary from a business standpoint.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:16 (nineteen years ago)

What is the point of even having tips, if not to promote good service? I mean, granted, the service has to be pretty darn poor to make me not tip. But still. There is a reason that it is at the customer's discretion!

most of the restaurants i ever worked at, the staff worked solely for tips (no wage at all from the restaurant), so what you're saying is that waiters should take your order, bring you your food, fetch you drinks from the bar, new silverware/plates, keep your water glass filled, smile, make sure the kitchen substitutes tofu for chicken, bring you your check, all for the pleasure of serving you, and at your discretion, they might possibly be compensated. wow, thanks. and then the food runner and busboy who get their earnings from a percentage of the waiter's tips ALSO should just be happy they are even in america and immigration hasn't caught them yet. i would never ever leave a restaurant without tipping, except in like totally extreme cases. if the sous-chef shitted in my soup or something.

although i have met europeans who will tip extra to compensate for all their cheapskate compatriots. i once got like a 50 percent tip on a $500 tab from some germans, giving me a little knowing wink. but maybe they were trying to have sex with me. for $250 i guess i might have. i dont know.

― phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:33 (nineteen years ago)

I think the obvious solution to this whole problem is that we should be able to go to nice fancy restaurants, take numbers, and just pick up the food ourselves.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:37 (nineteen years ago)

no they're not saying that, phil. they're saying the busboys and runners and waitrons should quit their jobs and become lobbyists for a decent living wage.

xpost nabisco i for one don't have the training required to not spill everything

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:39 (nineteen years ago)

Thereby putting thousands out of work. I like it, nabisco. Tough love and all. Actually, fuck it, we should just randomly walk into places, take over the kitchen, raid the cellar, and have a party. FOR FREE.

xpost

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:39 (nineteen years ago)

Here's a question. How much do y'all tip food delivery people?

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:42 (nineteen years ago)

food delivery people?

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:42 (nineteen years ago)

and each celebrant is required first to master the wine list and ingredients of every dish

xpost 20%

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:43 (nineteen years ago)

"What are you doing, Michael!?"

"Mashterin the wine lisht."

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:44 (nineteen years ago)

Ha, M, I was actually trying to imagine something like private karaoke booths, where you get a table and full-stocked kitchen and maybe some pre-prepped stuff! The hotel meets the kitchen ... only at La Nabiscuisinerie!

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:45 (nineteen years ago)

"the st. julien is a bit.. well it's good, innit??"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:46 (nineteen years ago)

I used to tip food delivery people 20% -- same I'd tip a waiter -- and then someone told me that was too high, that it's not in the same category or whatever. So I guess it depends now. I think most of the time it's close to 20%, anyway, because I'm usually just ordering for myself and give the person a couple bucks.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:47 (nineteen years ago)

It weirded me out in Mexico how all of these little children were bagging groceries at the supermarket. I asked my host how the grocery store got away with it and his reply was that since they didn't work for the store but instead were working for tips, it was okay.

I'LL TELLS YA, ILX. IT MADE ME THINK.

I certainly don't take for granted the baggers at my Kroger anymore.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:49 (nineteen years ago)

I tip food delivery people 17-25%, depending. I sort of feel obligated to tip better because I'm ordering for one, most of the time (though sometimes I order enough food for two!).

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:49 (nineteen years ago)

btw tracer, i ran into your pizza friend last night. i think im going to go sometime and try the fried chicken skin pizza. sounds awesome

― phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:49 (nineteen years ago)

You know the restaurant isn't that old a business in Europe. Prior to it, there were set menu taverns and in some places, you could bring food into a tavern in and they'd cook it for you. IIrc, they only date from the latter half of the 18th century.

I don't order for less than two and I usually tip 10 - 15%.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:52 (nineteen years ago)

you should! i was going to come out w/him but my out-of-towners were bushed.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:55 (nineteen years ago)

Europeans also don't have the gene that allows one to calculate 15% of something instantly, in the same way some people can't roll their tongue, and some people don't like grime.

― Mike W (caek), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 22:57 (nineteen years ago)

15% = 10% plus half of that again. I think the usual urban-American technique is to work out 10%, double it, and then randomly pick a number toward the top of that range, depending on subjective emotional feelings toward server. Alternately you can use your cell phone's EZ Tip Calculator, but then you'll look like someone's grandfather.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:06 (nineteen years ago)

I usually just double the tax and add a little extra.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:07 (nineteen years ago)

Alternately: "What combination of the bills in my pocket most closely approximate the bill plus a reasonable tip without my having to wait for change?"

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:07 (nineteen years ago)

Which is probably a bit cheap of me.

But then I'm "European".

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:07 (nineteen years ago)

I think the usual urban-American technique is to work out 10%, double it, and then randomly pick a number toward the top of that range, depending on subjective emotional feelings toward server.

More or less. To be honest, though, I don't really ever think about my server at all, unless they've been really horrendous for some reason. But that's only really happened a couple times in my life.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:10 (nineteen years ago)

I think about the server, but usually in a positive way. E.g. the other night I went alone to this Greek restaurant, and despite the fact that it was really crowded, the guy serving me immediately picked up on the fact that I was in a hurry, and got me served and billed way faster than the multiple parties drinking and chatting -- someone does stuff like that, and I definitely have it in mind when tipping. If someone seems to be ignoring me, or forgetting things I asked for, or whatever, I'll still give them a normal/standard tip, and just grumble about it -- but every now and then, that makes a difference. For instance, maybe I don't have change, and under normal circumstances would just leave large bills, giving the server a generous tip -- there have been plenty of times where I'm grumbly enough about the service to get change / refuse to monetarily compliment the bad service.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever written, you really don't care about my tipping habits.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:18 (nineteen years ago)

But point being I will totally think "hey, I liked that guy" and drop in a little extra. And I will totally think "hmm, is that quite enough for a tip? oh well, it was shitty service anyway."

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:20 (nineteen years ago)

This whole thing is weird. I'm never going to America for fear people will point at me and laugh. I'm pretty sure I'd get it totally wrong.

Are your drinks so mad cheap over there that you can stick extra money on top of the cost of each one?

Quandary we had a couple of weeks ago. We were at a self-service restaurant where all the waiters had to do was bring us drinks (which they got wrong) and clear our plates (which we had to ask them to do. Twice.) which didn't seem very tip-worthy. Is this totally wrong of us not to tip in this instance - this is in the UK where they get a "proper" wage and shouldn't be reliant on tips, which is probably just as well given the appalling level of service.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:26 (nineteen years ago)

Are your drinks so mad cheap over there that you can stick extra money on top of the cost of each one?

No, but they would be to you.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:27 (nineteen years ago)

How many posts on here AREN'T about tipping?

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:29 (nineteen years ago)

I think that's pretty normal in Britain. (xpost)

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:29 (nineteen years ago)

http://images.windowsmedia.com/img/prov_w/300_80/054391603760.jpg

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:30 (nineteen years ago)

Mike Jones would feel very out of place in, say, Hertfordshire.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:30 (nineteen years ago)

It's about $3.75 to $5 for a pint here in SF. Mixed drink, say a g&t, is anywhere from $3.75 (well) to $6 or $7 (call) in a nicer place (not hotel bar).

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:31 (nineteen years ago)

xpost: In the US, if you order at a counter, you don't have to tip, even if a "tip jar" is present.

― senseiDancer (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:31 (nineteen years ago)

Anyway, Ailsa people wouldn't laugh at you. If I ever feel bad about maybe not tipping enough, I just think "well, I'm sure they heard I'm not from around here. They understand". Best of both worlds!

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:32 (nineteen years ago)

My standards are so off when it comes to buying drinks in bars. It's so easy for me to drop $20-$30 over the course of a few hours drinking and think nothing of it, but then I'll complain about the price of hardcover books in that same range.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:36 (nineteen years ago)

I can no longer afford drinks or hardcover books so it's an easy choice for me. Fortuantely Netflix is only about $12 a month when I split it with the wife.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:38 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I'll just charm them with my quaint "Scotch" accent and hurrah, cheap(er) drinks. I had no idea of what drink prices were in the US, but those prices M. White mentions look OK to me - I sort of had it in my head that drink prices were much dearer, does it vary much from state to state? (not that, when I go to visit my brother later this year I am going to spend all my time in the pub, oh no, not me, not like me at all)

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:41 (nineteen years ago)

That counter rule is half-true of everything except alcohol and coffee. In fact, I think it was the coffeehouse tip jar that's led everyone else lately to just throw one out there and see what it brings in. But yeah, if you order a burger, and there's a styrofoam cup on the counter with "tips" written on the side in ballpoint pen, that's basically just a recepticle for spare change. If it's a place you go to a lot, where they know you, then it's a little different, and if it's a "nice" place or any place where you're pretty sure the employees will give you attitude for not tipping, then that's a little different. But by and large ... I dunno, I usually gauge that by how much money is in the jar already, but there are still plenty of instances where it's like dude, you rang me up for a newspaper, you don't need a tip.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:43 (nineteen years ago)

The newstand beneath my building has a tip jar. And it says "DON'T FORGET TO TIP! [SMILEY FACE]" on it. Seems like they are hoping for more than loose change.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:44 (nineteen years ago)

I'm sure it's cheaper in alot of places, ailsa. Where's your brother?

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:46 (nineteen years ago)

Much cheaper outside the megapolises. Miller Lite's about $2 - $2.50, Bass around $3.50 - $4 around here. I can get a good stiff Maker's for $5 or $6.

Of course, figure in your tip and ...

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:47 (nineteen years ago)

Bradenton, FL. Obviously I am going to do lots of embarrassing things in a European manner to show him up, now that he's almost a native :)

Hurrah, reasonable drink prices!

Is it an embarrassing European thing to want Britishes/European things to drink in pubs? Will I get looked at funny if I want a pint of Guinness?

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:50 (nineteen years ago)

the thing that weirds me out about waiting is its so frickin hard. like, comparedf to the money available, its totally fucking impossible! its insanely hard work, totally thankless (egtting shit from the kitchen and the customers) and requires loads of shit frmo you - skill, precision, recall, management skills etc. all that for $very little p/h?!! it just seems fucked. it seems almost arbitrary that its got this lowest common denominator job role.

― ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:51 (nineteen years ago)

ok all i know is if i do go to the states, which becomes more likely every year, if someone says "thats $5" orsomething for a drink, im just gonna throw wads fo bills at them in a panic, like $10 or $20, just to avoid getting hassled by the staff. i cant imagine begin given shit by bar staff, waiting staff ir anything. not as in, "how dare they, they are only bar staff?!!!!" but just cos its so unusual in my experience

― ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:52 (nineteen years ago)

oh oh, another funny thing is when europeans who are used to tiny tiny measured pours of spirits drink the same number of gin & tonics here as they would in europe, but the amount of booze in the drinks in good ole us of a is like 4x more than what they normally get. then they get really really really drunk

― phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:53 (nineteen years ago)

ailsa, Guinness is relatively ubiquitous though it varies in quality. You should at least try a local bevvy, though.

phil-two OTM

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:55 (nineteen years ago)

Either that or it's just the natural reaction to hanging out with me.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:55 (nineteen years ago)

Certainly in Spain you just get poured random and large amounts of spirits, hence why lots of the Britishes go getting very pissed on the costas. I love Spain :)

(I don't like beer, full stop, it's Guinness or wine for me, I'm afraid)

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:56 (nineteen years ago)

yeah i hate getting spirits in england. its like 2 drips of vodka, and a whole can of soda.

― phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 23:58 (nineteen years ago)

M. White:

Your long overdue answer: Medicine Eaststation at the Crocker Galleria.

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:01 (nineteen years ago)

"Is it an embarrassing European thing to want Britishes/European things to drink in pubs? Will I get looked at funny if I want a pint of Guinness?"

no, but limey bartenders did look at me funny when I ordered a Manhattan. In fact, they didn't even know how to make one.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:04 (nineteen years ago)

do they have bourbon in europe?

― phil-two (phil-two), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:05 (nineteen years ago)

the english aren't too big on cocktails in general, are they?

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:07 (nineteen years ago)

I don't like beer, full stop, it's Guinness or wine for me, I'm afraid

how does "Guinness" differ from "beer"?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:08 (nineteen years ago)

Haha, I went to a cocktail bar in Glasgow a few weeks ago and the barman didn't know how to make a martini. He had to go and get the manager, who also didn't know as it wasn't on their list of cocktails that they did. Twunts.

Guinness = stout. not beer.

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:09 (nineteen years ago)

there are lots of stouts in America, and they're all beers too, afaik.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:12 (nineteen years ago)

cafe boheme in soho didn't know how to make a martini when my friend ordered one in there a few years ago (and for their prices they really bloody should). he had to show him how.

this thread is brilliant. the tip thing is mental.

― emsk ( emsk), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:13 (nineteen years ago)

"Will I get looked at funny if I want a pint of Guinness?"

CAN I GET A CHEESEBURGER? I DON'T WANT CHIPS, I WANT FRIES...

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:15 (nineteen years ago)

Guinness doesn't taste like beer. That is all. Back to your mad tipping thing.

PP, I can speak American, but it's the *culture*...

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:18 (nineteen years ago)

when americans order fancy drinks at pubs! yes i know it LOOKS like there's a lit of liquor bottles back there, but they all contain gin and/or vodka

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:19 (nineteen years ago)

when i worked in a restaurant across from the liberty bell in philadelphia we would just add a tip on to any euro-tourist tables that we got. it worked for the most part. hardly anyone complained. sometimes a table would tip anyway and we would just look the other way like the greedy little drunks that we were. japanese tourists and business people were always good tippers. they knew the deal.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:22 (nineteen years ago)

dude gabbneb you already had the pedant of the year locked up by jan 4 or so. now you're just embarassing the competition.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:22 (nineteen years ago)

sometimes i think they should just add a 20% service charge to ALL checks here and be done with the whole tipping drama. and if you really really liked your server you could leave them more.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:23 (nineteen years ago)

Dragging things back on-topic, embarrassing things I did in my FIRST 24 HOURS in the US:

Stood watching people clear the barriers on the BART at 8AM for fully half an hour before I worked out those things they were putting in the holes were COINS, not magical token things I needed to get from a veinding machine or counter.

Got drunk at 9AM in an English theme pub while watching England play Switzerland in Euro 2004 then went to a SF Giants game alone still wearing a football shirt (== hooligan, natch) and loudly asked the terrified people around me to explain the rules.

Got the worst sunburn of my life at said baseball game, having not remembered San Francisco's crazy microclimate when I dressed that morning.

Not got IDed ONCE, despite being 22. This was particularly humiliating, because I thought EVERYONE got IDed.

The next day, at Amtrak depot in Oakland when I was buying a train ticket to Monterey, they asked me why I didn't just drive. I said "I don't know how to drive". That was pretty embrrassing, since the only people who don't drive in the US have an IQ below 75.

I also tried to walk to the mall from my hotel in Monterey. I'm sure the people driving past were laughing at me. More fool them though: an hour and a half later I got there and it was nice and cool on the way back (it was night).

So, who wants to hang around with me the next time I am in the US? Laugh a minute. Seriously, I will probably be in SF and Chicago for the World Cup. I'll let you know where I am, and you can come and watch me make hilarious errors.

― Mike W (caek), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:28 (nineteen years ago)

(Off topic again: I had been warned that there was some elaborate procedure for tipping so when I got to the bar where football game was being showed, I looked innocent and laid on the British accent and asked one of the barmaids how much to tip. I just took her word for it. It was all on expenses anyway.)

― Mike W (caek), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:29 (nineteen years ago)

Wait, I have one more embarrassing thing I fully intend to do next time I am in the US: assume the below is true:

http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/the_nonexpert/is_he_cute_or_is_he_british.php

― Mike W (caek), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:30 (nineteen years ago)

when is the World Cup exactly?

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:38 (nineteen years ago)

9 - 23 June 2006.

― Mike W (caek), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:42 (nineteen years ago)

ailsa, Guinness is relatively ubiquitous though it varies in quality.

yeah, you can order it as long as you don't expect it to taste like the guinness you're used to!

newcastle brown ale exists in the USA too i think, but is just decidedly NOT BROWN

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:50 (nineteen years ago)

Phil's example of tips being essential because the restaurant doesnt pay them at all is U&K here I think. I mean basically what it means is this: the customers are paying their staff, so the business doesnt have to. This is freakin robbery! This must mean they also avoid things like taxes, superannuation, and medical for their staff.

WHY ARE YOU ALL PUTTING UP WITH SUCH TREATMENT? Man. *shudder*.

Sorry no more tiptalk from me tho heh.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:51 (nineteen years ago)

It's just that in certain places people seem to spend a lot of effort being friendly when what they clearly need to concentrate on is being competent.

YES.

I AM STEALING THIS IDEA.

Trayce: because, say, in Aspen, barmen/waitresses can quite easily pull anywhere from $200 -- $700 a night.

― gbx (skowly), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:54 (nineteen years ago)

Then, most of them take that money, give half of it to the Guatemalan dishwasher, and roll up what's left very tightly in order to snort what the DW gave them.

― gbx (skowly), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:55 (nineteen years ago)

when i worked in a restaurant across from the liberty bell in philadelphia

(omg, I once worked in the gift shop/bookstore in Independence Hall!)

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:57 (nineteen years ago)

gbx oh tee em

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:57 (nineteen years ago)

screw staying in SF for the World Cup! I'll be in London for that. :)

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Thursday, 19 January 2006 00:58 (nineteen years ago)

Mike W., where were you for England vs. Switzerland?

― M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:02 (nineteen years ago)

The most fun I've ever had watching football matches on TV has been in the US and India, neither of which is known for their footballing culture. I saw the England-Portugal penalty shoot-out in 2004 in Monterey. The place was packed (but not in a UK city centre pub on matchday way -- just a nice way) and everyone was watching the football. The atmosphere was novel (to me, and most of the USians too) and fantastic.

I saw the final of that tournament in a bar in Bangalore at 3AM, which remains comfortably the oddest experience of my life.

I want more experiences like those, and these air miles aren't going to spend themselves.

xpost: I was in the Mad Dog in the Fog on Haight.

― Mike W (caek), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:07 (nineteen years ago)

I saw Man U win the European Cup...on my own in a freezing cold apartment in Paris with a plate of gnocchi.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:11 (nineteen years ago)

Ouch. That's a low ebb. I watched extra time and penalties in England v Argentina in 1998 alone in my living room. I missed the 90 minutes because I was on a coach back from a university open day. I think I had some toast.

― Mike W (caek), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:13 (nineteen years ago)

"I saw the final of that tournament in a bar in Bangalore at 3AM, "

dood was that in the Underground? The bar in Bangalore that's modeled after the London underground?!

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:13 (nineteen years ago)

No, it was the hotel bar in Le Meridien. Businessmen bought me many bottles of Kingfisher. Good times. Like a sub-continental/British version of Lost in Translation.

However, Underground sounds like a lot of fun.

― Mike W (caek), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:17 (nineteen years ago)

aside from being crappy tippers [but yeah, i know, its not part of their culture, whatevs and i guess its deserved considering all the gross injustices americans do to theirs], most italians ive encountered go crazy when they shop at the gap, buying like 10 pairs of jeans at once. its been over a decade since ive lived overseas, so i wonder are jeans still *that* expensive?

― maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:19 (nineteen years ago)

I'm annoyed that I can't get Kingfisher in the US. Anyway, post something when it comes time for the World Cup and I'll come out for a pint or two.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:19 (nineteen years ago)

Out of sales, jeans at the Gap in the UK are around £30 ($50). Levis are £50 ($80). I'm guessing that's expensive.

xpost Shakey: I will hold you to that, although I warn you: these matches will start early.

― Mike W (caek), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:23 (nineteen years ago)

over a sea?

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:23 (nineteen years ago)

i wonder are jeans still *that* expensive?

No, but the dollar is like, well weak, innit? Jeans are basically half the price if you buy them in dollars.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:30 (nineteen years ago)

"(omg, I once worked in the gift shop/bookstore in Independence Hall!)"

i worked in the Bourse. up top at a Salad Alley when they still had a food court up top. this was in the 80's. we were the only sit-down place up there and the people who gave us the most trouble were the american bus tourists by far. they would sit down and order and then tell us they only had 15 minutes to make it back to their bus. lots of yelling and confusion. the euros were always very orderly. i would wait on 20 germans and they would all order the same thing. very helpful!

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 19 January 2006 01:33 (nineteen years ago)

order garlic bread with their pizzas!*

*okay, this is only brits, but still

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 19 January 2006 02:58 (nineteen years ago)

Off topic again: I had been warned that there was some elaborate procedure for tipping so when I got to the bar where football game was being showed, I looked innocent and laid on the British accent and asked one of the barmaids how much to tip.

I did this when I went to New York. I just couldn't work out when I was supposed to tip and when I wasn't and how much, so in the end I just asked people after every transaction.

aside from being crappy tippers...most Italians...

I found that Italians don't tip at all (except in very touristy places). Often we tried to give restaraunts a tip and they would just look confused and give us the money back. It was as if we'd done something completely alien and inappropriate, like saying "Now we would like to sing you a song to show our appreciation of the meal". Also, most Italians thought I was an American for some reason (and I never wore a baseball cap).

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Thursday, 19 January 2006 08:50 (nineteen years ago)

My sister works in a Minneapolis sports bar and has chased customers who've stiffed her before, shouting "you forgot your change!" and bringing it to them, the implication being they were not welcome back. She brings home $200 on a slow night and is a very efficient waitress. In MN all waitresses' income tax is calculated on the basis of 8 per cent of the establishment's takings but a good waitress at her place can expect to take 20-25 per cent tips, especially from regulars (and even from my mom, when she goes there). She is also paid $500 to work at parties/Vikings events.

In Britain the food deliverer gets £1 or £2 unless the food is cumbersome or for more than two people. In America, this tends to be about $5 but slightly less for a pizza.
In America, baristas get my spare change from an order. Britain, never.
In Continental Europe all the service charges are in the bill, whereas in Britain it varies. A posh restaurant should get 15 per cent, cafes with table service and more everyday restaurants usually 10 and closer to 15 if it is a very good specialty restaurant. If the menus are on the wall, eg. greasy spoon, the spare-change rule seems to go back into effect.

In America I feel cheap if I don't tip over 20 per cent for average-to-good service but woe betide the provider of poor service to my table if my sister is eating with me (my way of telegraphing 'poor service' to the server is to immediately settle the cheque brought with 'please bring the change' and then going straight to 15 per cent, but I very rarely have to). Hell hath no fury like a poorly served off-duty waitress. We got poor service at a place in Anoka County the night before I left because our waitress was paying too much attention to male regulars and by the end of it my mom and sister were going mental about it.

Most Americans are happy with the tipping system; my upper-middle-class cousin and his equally blessed girlfriend were of the opinion that 'they' should work hard and smile for the tip money (my sister is happy because she can turn over a table of spoiled rich kids in 30 minutes and get a big tip). I explained to them that in Britain the whole point is to de-emphasise/temporarily deny those sorts of master-servant relationships.

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 19 January 2006 10:33 (nineteen years ago)

In Britain the food deliverer gets £1 or £2 unless the food is cumbersome or for more than two people.

Who in the name of God tips takeaway drivers?

This thread is mental, but maybe goes some way to explaining why I once had some change thrown at me by a bartender in MA.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 19 January 2006 11:32 (nineteen years ago)

A friend of mine went drinking with his Minnesotan girlfriend's Dad. They got to a bar where my friend ordered a Guiness. The barmaid pulled a warm can off the shelf, opened it, sploshed it straight into the glass, which was promptly emptied into the toilet by my friend. It cost him about $4.

― Louis Giomblechett and his kerayzy friends (dog latin), Thursday, 19 January 2006 11:38 (nineteen years ago)

doesn't everyone tip takeaway drivers? just round up the money - if you've spent £13, give them £15, if you've spent £17, give them £20, etc etc...

― emsk ( emsk), Thursday, 19 January 2006 11:41 (nineteen years ago)

emskotm

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 19 January 2006 11:43 (nineteen years ago)

although confused by "food delivery people", upthread, I agree w/ emsk/tim

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 January 2006 11:47 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not sure why, though

: (

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 January 2006 11:47 (nineteen years ago)

They know where you live.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 19 January 2006 11:58 (nineteen years ago)

i always give a few £ to takeaway drivers. in the states, i tipped more for the simple reason that the guy would have to walk up five steep flights to get to my apt.

― lauren (laurenp), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:03 (nineteen years ago)

Maybe I'm out of touch, then, since I don't use them any more (all the takeaways I could want are within easy walking distance). It still seems like mentalism.

The only people I tip are restaurants, cab drivers and my barber - all of those are just basic rounding up things, although I might vary the amount in a restaurant depending on the service.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:05 (nineteen years ago)

those are probably two of the reasons

we only have two proper flights (not counting the front door steps (approx. 10) and a short flight, in the entrance, (approx. 5)) but they are long and winding

crosspost

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:06 (nineteen years ago)

I tip delivery guys in the UK but that's down to a) being American and b) they are bringing FOOD to me. Delivery of take-away is really in its infancy here because for ages the British custom was to go there yourself to pick up even if you'd dialled up for the food (see also: charges for packets of soy sauce/forks/chopsticks and other things also phasing out in favour of US-style provision for free).

Also for some reason if you consistently tip drivers/riders your food gets to you in 25 minutes as opposed to the 45 the dispatcher gives you as an estimate. You really have to tip £1 plus change for that in London now (my takeaway is never more than £15).

Doglatin: my Minnesotan dad is an ex-bar owner. He would show such a barmaid zero mercy.

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:15 (nineteen years ago)

i tip the curry place around the corner from us when i pick up from them too, just because they're really nice and friendly and i like their food and they never have any customers eating in because they're in such an awkward-arse place.

― emsk ( emsk), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:16 (nineteen years ago)

[Mike W said:] Wait, I have one more embarrassing thing I fully intend to do next time I am in the US: assume the below is true:

[extract from linked article:] skipping around (...) making puns with their Byron under one arm and a pot of marmalade under the other.

Oh I hope you do this!

― The Vintner's Lipogram (OleM), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:17 (nineteen years ago)

I tip the pizza delivery guy a pound, provided I have the change. They do deliver quite promptly, whether that is due to the tipping I don't know. I think I do because I'm worried if I don't they will spit in the pizza!

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:27 (nineteen years ago)

tell me about some more things that are in their infancy, here, please, suzy

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:27 (nineteen years ago)

Ask where the toilet is.

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:34 (nineteen years ago)

having goats cheese on bagels

― terry lennox. (gareth), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:38 (nineteen years ago)

Ask where the toilet is.

you'd be less embarrassed if they shat themselves in a restaurant?

― the kit! (g-kit), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:39 (nineteen years ago)

RJG: yer maw.

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:41 (nineteen years ago)

how embarrassing

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 19 January 2006 12:46 (nineteen years ago)

Dud: Drive-thru's that have that styrofoam cup taped to the window for tips.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 19 January 2006 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

Stay for 2 and a half years.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

Boy is my face red.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

Dud: Drive-thru's that have that styrofoam cup taped to the window for tips.

Who does this?!

― truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:11 (nineteen years ago)

How much does one tip these days at medical marijuana clubs?

― M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:12 (nineteen years ago)

There's one right by my house! It's a dollar per joint, obviously.

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:12 (nineteen years ago)

What about per bud vaporized? Still a buck?

― M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:16 (nineteen years ago)

Europeans are useful at Century 21 though - they clear out all the ugly denim, leather jackets and florid shirts, making shopping easier for Americans.

― paulhw (paulhw), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:16 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.sanfranmag.com/home/view_story/1165/

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:17 (nineteen years ago)

I walk by the Vapor Room on Haight all the time. It's not as nice as Mr. Green's purports to be.

― M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 19 January 2006 16:20 (nineteen years ago)

The places I've seen with the styrofoam tip cup taped to the drive-thru are usually those coffee places that seem to have been built inside an old photo*mat. You'll also sometimes see them at those sno*cone places that sit on wooden pallets in the parking lot of Kroger.

Our new favorite drive-thru Mexican place has one of these. However, until they start putting more than two scoops of brown rice in our dinner and stop freaking out at the sight of our dog, NO TIP.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 19 January 2006 17:53 (nineteen years ago)

adam is emo phillips

― POOP BITCH (Mandee), Thursday, 19 January 2006 18:00 (nineteen years ago)

[The Vintner's Lipogram said:]
[Mike W said:] Wait, I have one more embarrassing thing I fully intend to do next time I am in the US: assume the below is true:
[extract from linked article:] skipping around [Oxford] making puns with their Byron under one arm and a pot of marmalade under the other.

Oh I hope you do this!

Hilariously, I live and work at the University of Oxford and my officemate gave me a pot of marmalade she'd made only yesterday. So replace "skipping" with "cycling" and "makking puns" with "swearing", and you've basically got me down pat.

― Mike W (caek), Thursday, 19 January 2006 20:45 (nineteen years ago)

"Pardon me, but would you happen to know where the toilet is?"
"I'm guessing it's in the bathroom."

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 19 January 2006 20:47 (nineteen years ago)

adam is emo phillips

I am?

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Thursday, 19 January 2006 20:48 (nineteen years ago)

'I say. This bathroom of which you speak. It contains no bath whatsoever.'

I love that 'toilet' is 'dirty' in the U.S. when it was orginally a euphemism itself.

― M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:26 (nineteen years ago)

It's not so much "dirty" as over-specific. If "where's the bathroom" seems silly, what with there not being a bath, then it might be similarly silly to go to the "toilet" in order to use a sink, mirror, or urinal.

When I was in London I asked after the "restroom" and Suzy asked if I was going to take a nap in there.

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:30 (nineteen years ago)

But Suzy's from Minnesota!

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:31 (nineteen years ago)

In Minnesota they say "ice closet." In Colorado we say "semi-private hygiene center."

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:32 (nineteen years ago)

just ask where the shitter is. the comeback "why, are you going to shit there?" is a no go. so to speak.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:35 (nineteen years ago)

though, that depends on whether you are referring to the toilet as a device, or as a room containing a device

you might ask where the telephone is, and it may be in a room with other things in, like tables,

― terry lennox. (gareth), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:38 (nineteen years ago)

where is the toilet?

well, clive, its in the bathroom, at the top of the stairs, 2nd on your right

― terry lennox. (gareth), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:39 (nineteen years ago)

when i'm in france i ask about the toilet as metaphor.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:40 (nineteen years ago)

It's not so much "dirty" as over-specific

Only in U.S. English usage. In British English (as in French for that matter) it also refers to the room where the toilet is.

I used to live in a flat here in S.F. that had separate toilet and sink/shower rooms. We called the toilet room the water closet and the bathing room the bathroom, but that's just us.

― M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:45 (nineteen years ago)

"where's the ladies'?"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:47 (nineteen years ago)

one of our exchange French lecturers always blasts really awful dance music from the grad student computer lab two doors away from my office. that's not embarassing, though, just fucking annoying. although i guess her choice of music is embarassing -- she seems to love that remixed bryan adams pumped-up-dance-mix track - "baby you're all that i want, when i'm lyin here in your arms, isn't it hard to believe, we're in heaveeeen!"

― killy (baby lenin pin), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:48 (nineteen years ago)

whither the loo, sirrah?

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:53 (nineteen years ago)

I love that 'toilet' is 'dirty' in the U.S. when it was orginally a euphemism itself.

I agree. It was weird to see TOILET ---> on a sign in the Sydney Airport. May as well just put SHIT BOX ---> up there.

Also weird to hear flights to "Saigon" being announced over the P.A.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:56 (nineteen years ago)

well, clive

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 19 January 2006 21:58 (nineteen years ago)

Beg pardon, can you direct me to the micturatorium?

― M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 19 January 2006 22:03 (nineteen years ago)

Y'all realise that originally toilette meant washcloth and the later took on the sense of a dressing table or vanity and only then later as a euphemism of the already euphemistic lieu d'aisance (whence, probably, our 'restroom').

― M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 19 January 2006 22:10 (nineteen years ago)

well, clive

― calderdale in the 70s (gareth), Thursday, 19 January 2006 22:20 (nineteen years ago)

I usually say, "I need a shit. Alright here?" and point to the floor. They then tell me where the room is found, and we avoid all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about what civilized people call it.

― Mike W (caek), Thursday, 19 January 2006 22:44 (nineteen years ago)

"Pardon me, but would you happen to know where the toilet is?"

Was this supposed to sound posh, nabisco? Cause no one posh and British would say "pardon me" or "toilet". V.Non-U!

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 19 January 2006 22:46 (nineteen years ago)

I had never until now associated Alba with Nancy Mitford, but, hey, there's a first time for everything.

― M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 19 January 2006 22:54 (nineteen years ago)

It was mostly just supposed to sound like someone asking where the bathroom was.

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 19 January 2006 23:05 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/25/dining/25note.html?th&emc=th

I think you might need to log in but it does cover a few of the points mentioned above about wages etc in a lighthearted manner.

― Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 12:52 (nineteen years ago)

CONFUSE "INTER" AND "INTRA"

OH WAIT AMERICANS DO THIS TOO!

― A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 12:54 (nineteen years ago)

"Pardon me, but would you happen to know where the toilet is?"

Saying "Pardon me" sooooooooooo American!

― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 13:12 (nineteen years ago)

(my way of telegraphing 'poor service' to the server is to immediately settle the cheque brought with 'please bring the change' and then going straight to 15 per cent, but I very rarely have to)

are you saying that you still tip 15% for BAD service? Why?

The main problem I have with the tip system is i) the amount you tip seems to be endlessly increasing ii) I suck at mental arithmathic, and am always afraid that I will think I am being really generous when in fact I have tipped at 7.6% iii) I really don't like the "hi I am your new best friend, give me money" shite that seems to go with North American tipping.

the best waiting staff are in Eastern Europe. Here is your food. Shut up. No, we don't want your tip.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 17:40 (nineteen years ago)

Saying "Pardon me" sooooooooooo American!

Hmm.

http://www.uniquetrans.com/Mustard5-250.JPG

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 17:44 (nineteen years ago)

I looooved the East Coast Grill, which did seem like a bit of a madhouse for a waiter.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 17:49 (nineteen years ago)

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