Red Wine vs White Wine

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I think a dislike for red wine says something about about a man.

― anthony, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

or woman .

― anthony, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sulfites sit better in your stomach is perhaps why. White wine hangovers are the worst!

― jason, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

red wine gives me terrible hangovers. white wine tastes boring. so i drink whiskey.

― Sterling Clover, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I prefer beer, rhum and sake. Not wine. Certainly do not like white wine.

― nathalie, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Why do you get that disgusting film on your lips after a night imbibing the red?

― tha chzza, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I was very, very sick after drinking too much white and haven't touched the stuff since, bar the odd glass of champagne (dahling). Red has never given me problems. In fact, I quite like the stuff.

― Madchen, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like them both :) Shjeet and don't forget a good bottle of rose ;) Slight preference for red though (and Spanish wine, of course).

― Omar, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Red I love if I'm in the mood, but I can't drink it because it fucks my stomach up something awful and I don't enjoy the rest of the evening.

White...well the problem with white is that a lot of it is really, *really* nasty. But if I find a good white I can drink it all night. Also I basically like drinks cold, so white is alright from that pov too. Mmmmm.

― Tom, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

So white is 'ok' to drink cold, but red is not? Having only had wine in the past few weeks due to my alcoholic roommates, I must say I am disappointed that red wine is apparently only drunk warm. I hate warm drinks.

― Josh, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Room Temp is not warm. It is tepid at best and it tastes better that way .

― anthony, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Room temp = too warm to drink.

― Josh, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

When I was in Spain they sometimes served red cold but only if it was shitty wine and they were trying to disguise the taste. I like both and enjoy drinking large quantities. The cold aspect of white wins over in pubs I think. The dying-your-lips-purple aspect of red is good too as it means you don't have to worry about topping up your lippy.

― Emma, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like both, though I am thoroughly sick of the over oaked chardonnay which seems to equal white wine for so many people nowadays.

Cold red wine tastes extremely odd. There are some exceptions, like Beaujolais Nouveau, but that tastes grim warm.

― Richard Tunnicliffe, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

We were reliably informed last night that according to the Guardian guide to being hip in 2001, Chardonnay = Out and Riesling = In.

― Emma, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Certain reds are much better chilled, anything which has a lot of berry in it. It is also dead impressive when you rock up to someones house and say "its probably best chileld for half an hour". Of course most peoples idea of chilled with white wine is 2 degrees centigrade which robs it taste. Still in the summer its pretty much white all the way.

Two years ago I wouldn't have gone near a bottle of white, but the quality of the cheap stuff has seriously improved over the last few years.

― Pete, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

white wine is awful

red wine is much, much worse

― gareth, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

White wine is not good. Red wine can be good.

― Lyra, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

We were reliably informed last night that according to the Guardian guide to being hip in 2001, Chardonnay = Out and Riesling = In

Wow, I must be hip, I love Riesling.

I used to be a red wine man but I've gone off it a bit now, I prefer white. Though sometimes I drink red just because you look cooler with a glass of red than you do with a glass of white (unless, of course, it's Riesling)

― jamesmichaelward, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah, doing what the Guardian guide to being hip in 2001 says is very hip ;). I like to match my wine to my nail varnish so gold varnish goes with white wine and purpley red with red.

― Emma, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Actually, now I know Riesling's Official Hip, it makes me feel less hip. What if people look at me and think "Bah! He's only drinking that wine because The Guardian told him to"?

Co-ordinating wine with nail varnish is a cool idea. I do the Practical Boy equivalent - which is to not drink red if I'm wearing a white shirt (in case of spillage)

― jamesmichaelward, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I heard that the truly hip are drinking red wine spritzers.

― Madchen, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Pete told me that too Madchen so it must be true. However the truly truly hip are drinking lager shandies.

― Emma, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Lager shandies = so last month. The new drink of choice for the discerning pub-goer is Guinness and Black!

― Richard Tunnicliffe, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

whatever happened to guinness spritzers?

― mark s, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have been trying to tell people for years how nice Guinness and black is but they wouldn't believe me.

― Madchen, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sulfites sit better in your stomach is perhaps why.

This just isn't true, medical fact. A good portion of the US population (no idea on the world stats, sorry) is actually allergic to sulfites, and the film sits badly in your stomach and throat (hence people feeling more "full" from red than they do from white). My mother has to specifically hunt down sulfite-free red wine, which might I add is a chore and she always has to buy from specific countries, because on top of her mild alcohol allergy she developed while pregnant, she's deathly allergic to sulfites (hence me knowing so frigging much about sulfite). If you're allergic, it'll cause anything from swelling up to nasty asthma attacks and hives. For non-allergic, it just coats your stomach wrongly.

Personally, I don't drink red at all. It has more calories, feels weird in my stomach, and just doesn't taste as sexy as white wine. It tastes like old men to me. White is fantastic, you just have to find the right one (like you have to with any color wine! Where are you people buying that you have to really hunt hard for good white but good red is flying off the walls into your goblets?). A good Riesling or Pinot Grigio is really, really, really hard to beat.

Though I'd prefer to drink a mango margarita 99% of the time.

― Ally, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

In california it's much easier to find good cheap red wine than white, unless you're a fan of the ever-bizarre white zinfandel. Chilled whites are refreshing, and big cabs or zinfandels are great in cool weather or with steak or something. It really depends. But I'll drink Carlo Rossi if that's all that's available. When I think of old-man wine, I think of port or sherry or something.

― Kris, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

But *what* does a dislike for red wine say about a man? I have been developing a fondness for a certain merlot. Hell, I'll drink any wine if it doesn't taste like vinegar(and after certain hours, I'll drink that too!)

― matthew, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Kris makes a good note re: the type of food with the wine. I cannot and will not *just* drink wine, doesn't work. You need to have something to eat with it, specifically the *right* thing. This is why, for instance, Moet et Chandon White Star needs Belgian chocolates. Mmm.

Both reds and whites are to my mind (and body and soul) brilliant, it's just a matter of finding the good ones instead of the bad. Finding good wines randomly is beautiful, like the fantastic house red at the Swiss fondue place in London Jane and I were at last Tuesday. Astounding stuff, and worked brilliantly with both the cheese and chocolate fondues.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Call me a crazy idjut but I like a peppery cabernet with steak and a peppery pinot noir with grilled catfish. Call me a crazy idjut, but I like pepper. Fresh ground, preferably. I like merlot but it makes my mouth dog-dark red-black. I like chardonnay but sometimes I get too drunk and wake up hurtin'. Port wine is a strange wine, is it not? Who has entered the Sandman?

― Nude Spock, Thursday, 16 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Drinking just wine is ridiculous, you need food with it. I don't eat meats besides fish, and it's proven by science that you need white with fish and red with meat. Thus, no red.

― Ally, Friday, 17 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one year passes...

yum red wine

― Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 07:41 (twenty-three years ago)

red wine good

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 07:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Been drinking a little Turning Leaf Merlot every night to get meself t bed.

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 07:46 (twenty-three years ago)

red wine

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 07:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Drinking a glass of red right now as a matter of fact.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 08:34 (twenty-three years ago)

it's proven by science that you need white with fish and red with meat. Thus, no red.

This has been challenged sufficiently that the CW is now that it's not remotely true.

Salmon and Pinot Noir is beyond right.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 08:56 (twenty-three years ago)

I much prefer white wine myself, but am about as far from a connoisseur as it's possible to be.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Red wine can give me migraines, so I rarely touch it. But I've never really had the energy to become a wine connoiseur so I'm with Ally: Bring on the margaritas!

― Chris P (Chris P), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:56 (twenty-three years ago)

wine margaritas

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Man oh man do I love wine. Typically reds (pinot noir, merlot, shiraz, and I'm just getting into sangiovese) but will venture a Gewürztraminer in the summer or if I'm wearing a precious outfit. Oh, and I'm a lifelong vegetarian; reds are marvelous with garlicky marinara and certainly need no meat acompaniment. (although who am I to say if I've never tried, eh?)

gygax: ack.

― teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:00 (twenty-three years ago)

What Ally said above, "a good Pinot Grigio or Riesling is really, really, really hard to beat."

It's too bad that, to some, all white wine carries the same stigma as White Zin. It's fuleish.

― Aaron A., Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Red Zin on the other hand... mmmmmm...

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:10 (twenty-three years ago)

I prefer red wine - the really cheap brands you can buy at the grocery store.

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:15 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm re-learning to like reds after years of sticking almost exclusively to whites because of the sulfites and tannins issues with reds. I just can't seem to drink more than a glass of red wine (except for, of all things, Ballatore's Ruby Spumante, which I could probably drink until I passed out).

But I'm finding that shopping by vineyard instead of type helps -- I have yet to pick anything up from Bonny Doon that I didn't absolutely love, even if it was something (dry Riesling, tannic red) that I usually didn't like at all. So I've been doing a bit of that and a bit of picking up whatever reds are staff recommendations from the staffers who like my favorite whites, at my wine shop.

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:18 (twenty-three years ago)

I like both red and white wine. I feel sorry for white wine because so many people hate it and would sooner cut their fingers off than drink it.

I have a "get it down ye" attitude to wine and enjoy the kind of manky cheap wine that other people scoff at.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:21 (twenty-three years ago)

in general, i like red wine more, but if you were to buy me a bottle of pouilly fuse, I would not complain!

gareth have you tried red wine since the incident?

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:23 (twenty-three years ago)

teeny,

you need to have a good wine margarita.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:53 (twenty-three years ago)

I wouldn't frame it myself as a white vs. red FITE, but I am biased against chardonnay which is so damn omnipresent throughout California. For me it just comes down to what I'm cooking and what wine would make a good pairing. It's hard to beat a good white rioja or sauvignon blanc (one of the greatest bottles of wine I've ever had was a Rabbit Ridge sauvignon blanc a couple of years back).

Admittedly, my fave wines are reds - specifically sangiovese, red rioja, or any of those Chilean malbec or carmenere varieties

― Chris Barrus (xibalba), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:55 (twenty-three years ago)

i am an affirmative action, equal opportunity wine drinker

me in liquor store = left hand white, right hand red

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Winter, red wine (god bless the Australians w/ their cheap, good Shiraz wines).

Summer, white. Pinot Grigio, esp.

Much better for you than beer, altho I do enjoy the Sierra Nevada porter (winter) and Red Hook ESB (summer). Drinking is the only vice I have left, basically--gave up smoking cigs and fueling death/terrorism a while back--so it's a real pleasure. No hard likker either, do like a very occasional gin-and-tonic. I'm healthy!!

― Jess Hill (jesshill), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 21:21 (twenty-three years ago)

winemaker snobs call white wine "chateau cashflow": it's very cheap to make, very hard to screw up, and is very easy to sell.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 21:45 (twenty-three years ago)

My favorite is Appellation Mountains.

― felicity (felicity), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 21:51 (twenty-three years ago)

my faves:

bonny doon - "le cigare volante" rhone blend (santa cruz, ca)
trimbach - gewurztraminer (alsace)
brogan - zinfandel (healdsburg, ca)
bonny doon - "vin de glaciere" dessert wine - (santa cruz, ca)
moet & chandon - white star champagne (reims)

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 21:58 (twenty-three years ago)

the best red wine i ever had was an '86 Henschke Cab Sav. oh my god it was like drinking velvet and silk (except tastier)

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 22:38 (twenty-three years ago)

i think gareth will never drink wine again!

― Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 22:57 (twenty-three years ago)

My favorite is Appellation Mountains.

I'm so hung over today, that it took me an hour to figure that one out. Very funny.

the best wine I've ever had was a late '70s Trefethen Cabernet (Napa)

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:01 (twenty-three years ago)

I have happy associations with Trefethen because I associate it with big tips from waitressing days.

― felicity (felicity), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:21 (twenty-three years ago)

banal storytime:

four years ago i was walking through the cost plus in larkspur (or corte madera, wherethefuckever) and picking up wine for a dinner party that evening and the winemaker from trefethen was standing there at a table topped with his wine. he stops me and we chat wine for a bit and then he recommends a bottle of wine for me.

the end.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Banal storytime is my favorite time of day. Fo' reel.

― felicity (felicity), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:41 (twenty-three years ago)

seven months pass...

haha, he actually signed the bottle with a silver sharpie, it was a good wine to be aged he told me, it was polished off less than 2.5 hours later.... oh well.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 3 November 2003 01:25 (twenty-two years ago)

mmm red wine

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 3 November 2003 01:28 (twenty-two years ago)

in general, i prefer red wine. chateau neuf-du-pape, cabernet, bordeaux, chianti, malbec, rioja, barolo, paulliac... these words are almost pornographic to me. i was once fortunate enough to have some lafite-rothschild from the mid-70s, and i think i saw the face of god. i'm getting over my childhood associations of white with my great-aunt who drank syrupy zinfandel and chablis, and i'm trying to learn more about different varieties. i love sancerre and lighter gewurtraminers (sp?), and my dad recently gave me a bottle of domaine larochette-manciat pouilly-fuisse that he said would knock my socks off. that remains to be seen, but i'm looking forward to consuming it.

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 3 November 2003 02:14 (twenty-two years ago)

winemaker snobs call white wine "chateau cashflow": it's very cheap to make, very hard to screw up, and is very easy to sell.

Then why can't I find a tolerable white anymore?

― j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 3 November 2003 02:32 (twenty-two years ago)

It's hard to screw up...but clearly the ones who don't find it impossible are on the vanguard of the new 'suck white' trend.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 November 2003 02:34 (twenty-two years ago)

*shrugs* I would think that red wine would be harder to screw up, because tannin and fruit can cover a certain amount of sins. The last white I was able to enjoy was a Riesling, but I couldn't find it at the store today.

― j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 3 November 2003 02:40 (twenty-two years ago)

try a viognier or a australian rieslig...or a new zealand sauvignon blanc...all should satisfy for less than 15 bucks.

― jonas lefrel (jonas lefrel), Monday, 3 November 2003 06:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Red wine totally roxor, that is it!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 3 November 2003 11:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Lauren, that Pouilly - Fuisse should Roxor, I just discovered Pouilly - Vincelles and that is really good. I was disappointed with my Chassagne Montrachet the other night, really insipid it were.

― chris (chris), Monday, 3 November 2003 11:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought the white wine at the wedding was marvellous! Then again I'm never sure with white wine if it's "good" or just "cold".

― Sarah (starry), Monday, 3 November 2003 11:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Red please. I drink it constantly, almost every day. White can be excellent if it's a really good (and no doubt costly) bottle, but *more* than drinkable reds can be had for under 10 dollars, plus it goes with more of the food I like to eat.

― Sean (Sean), Monday, 3 November 2003 12:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is it that in the States, people seem to think that rose is like baby wine or fake somehow, but in France it's totally normal, depending on the meal, or your preference?

I like red and white. Esp. syrah and zin. on the red side and dry, but fruity whites like moselles.

― Skottie, Monday, 3 November 2003 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd never dream of picking between the two. On average I drink more red than white, but I always make sure there's a Gewurtztraminer or two in the rack, as it suits my style of cooking to a T. Also Sancerre for when only ferocious dryness will do. Chris OTM Lauren, I envy you that Pouilly Fuisse. In fact, in a fit of pique I'm going to make sure I drink that Meursault I've been saving with dinner.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 3 November 2003 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Skottie white zinfandel IS a baby wine. I agree about rosé though, it's good almost anytime that's not totally freezing. For a similar thang in super-cold weather I reiterate my earlier recommendation of Gamay!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 3 November 2003 12:56 (twenty-two years ago)

It's the winter time, there's no contest: RED ROX.

However, inna summertime, coldness is a virtue. solution: 'Abigail's Party' style chillage of brouilly/fleurie etc.

― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 3 November 2003 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Also Sancerre for when only ferocious dryness will do.

Ooo get you! ;-)

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 3 November 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

solution: 'Abigail's Party' style chillage of brouilly/fleurie etc

very true.

I'm quitetaken by the sparkling Shiraz that Banrock station have started doing too, fizzy red? oh yes

― chris (chris), Monday, 3 November 2003 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Clos du Bois Pinot Noir is the house red at my place, but I like to experiment with different under-$12 bottles as well. I love really grassy New Zealand sauvignon blancs, but the spousage finds them undrinkably offensive. I definitely drink more red in cold weather -- goes better with my cool-weather cooking, too. In the unbearably hot, muggy summers, white is a necessity; a glass of red in such weather would result in certain death.

― quincie, Monday, 3 November 2003 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is it that in the States, people seem to think that rose is like baby wine or fake somehow

You've never tried "white" Zinfandel, have you? And now stores seem to be stocking "white Merlot," which looks similarly poisonous.

― j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 3 November 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I've tried white rioja -- this was actually good.

― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 3 November 2003 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

white Rioja, if you pardon the almost pun, rocks

― chris (chris), Monday, 3 November 2003 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

"white Merlot"

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH.

Someone must die. The crystal Pepsi of wine.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 November 2003 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

wrt: white vs. red... a decent vintage of red takes 18 mos. minimum; beringer can turn out a chardonnay in <6 weeks.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 3 November 2003 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

white rioja generally has a fair whack of sauvignon blanc in it, so unless it's v badly made it'll generally be a fairly easy-drinking dry white.

White Merlot? What the fuck is this abomination?

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 3 November 2003 16:15 (twenty-two years ago)

ick ack yuck. i think red merlot is an abomination, what is this white merlot business???

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 3 November 2003 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Just because more-or-less white wines can be made from red or black grapes, does not necessarily mean that winemakers should attempt to do so.

― j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 3 November 2003 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I will console myself with a bottle of red merlot (sorry Lauren) that I picked up yesterday which won some local awards down here recently. I have hopes.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 November 2003 17:11 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not the color of the grape that determines the color of the wine, obv....

The main difference between red and white wine is that grape juice used to make red wine contains skins, seeds, and stems. This is significant for the following reason: leaving juice to mix together with the woody bits (known as maceration) causes the finished product to contain tannins.

and later in the same article...

a third type of wine, rosé, is largely considered a joke. That's not entirely true, but you'll be safer sticking to reds and whites if you're ordering at a restaurant;

It's true that most rosés in the States deserve "joke" status. I just find it interesting that this is not the case in France.

― Skottie, Monday, 3 November 2003 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

rose, that is...weird that the same c/p resulted in different characters...anyhoo...

― Skottie, Monday, 3 November 2003 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not the color of the grape that determines the color of the wine, obv....

Yes, I know that. What I intended to say is that white Zinfandel indicates that not all grapes are suitable for making white wine, even though few things are as good as an honest red Zin. I have no intention of trying the white Merlot I've seen in stores lately, because I suspect it's a similar misuse of grapes.

It's all about recognizing and using the grapes to maximize their potential. The wines that go into French cognac and champagne, after the first fermentation, are said to be indifferent at best. But the subsequent fermentation and handling brings out these wines' best qualities.

― j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 3 November 2003 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree that a really nice dark ruby Zin is incredible. And white Zin is a joke. I also really like the crisp whites from the Grave region.

― Skottie, Monday, 3 November 2003 18:05 (twenty-two years ago)

There are some good dry roses coming out of SA at the moment. Most of the french ones are a little too unctuous for my palate, I need that acidity by and large.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 3 November 2003 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)

three weeks pass...

You Californians suck, what with your awesome wines that cost over thirty dollars on the low end when they make it out the East Coast!

I'm lucky enough to be working part-time in a wine shop right now, learning a ton and sharpening my palate (not to mention buying far too much wine). It really is a mindblowingly amazing beverage. With my discount I get to drink way out of my price range for what I used to pay for fairly decent bottles, or to drink those same fairly decent bottles for damn cheap. I've fallen head over heels for riesling, especially from Alsace. Something about the aroma of riesling touches me on a strange, deep, unarticulable level. Sounds lame, I know, but it's true!

― Clarke B. (stolenbus), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 05:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, speaking of rosé, if you come across a rosé Sancerre, by all means try it!

― Clarke B. (stolenbus), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 05:14 (twenty-two years ago)

You Californians suck, what with your awesome wines that cost over thirty dollars on the low end when they make it out the East Coast!

We love you too, Clarke. (Come out here again when you can.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 05:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd love to, and in fact I'll very likely be visiting when I'm trying to decide what grad schools to apply to next year, so get ready!

― Clarke B. (stolenbus), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 05:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Woohoo! UCI calls you, methinks. But I would say that.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 06:00 (twenty-two years ago)

With my discount I get to drink way out of my price range for what I used to pay for fairly decent bottles, or to drink those same fairly decent bottles for damn cheap.

I'm tempted to envy you, you lucky ....;>

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 19:46 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

Can someone give me a primer on Italian red wine? Please?

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Super-tuscans.

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:59 (twenty-two years ago)

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 02:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Dominique,

Italian wines are named after their regions, generally. Thus, Chianti = name of area in Italy whose wines are made primarily from the Sangiovese grape.

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Oops...

Some of the best-known (and most expensive) wines from Italy are Barbaresco and Barolo (again, two small areas -- the wines are made from the nebbiolo grape), which are aged two and three years in oak, respectively. These are huge, juicy, tannic reds that can stand up to just about any rich, heavy food you can throw at them.

Barbera is another well-known type of Italian wine, although this (confusingly) is the name of the grape and not the area. These can be light-to-medium bodied or quite heavy (see many Barbera d'Albas).
See also dolcetto.

There are many, many native varietals in Italy; for some reason Italian reds are much more daunting to me than, say, French reds. I still have a very very loose grip on them, but it's a lot of fun to learn... ;-)

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:27 (twenty-two years ago)

and those are the so-called 'Super-Tuscans"

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, also, "Super Tuscan" (I think) refers to a Tuscan blend that fails to meet the (relatively strict) blending criteria for being called [x], and is a huge, expensive and full-bodied red.

(x-post with Orbit)

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Dominique, also, Italian wines to me are first and foremost food wines. That is *not* a devaluation of them at all -- it just reflects on the status of wine in Italian culture as an everyday beverage, an important part of life. Certainly these $50 and $60 Barolos are not "everyday beverages," but their greatness is certainly accentuated by great food -- furthermore they are designed to be consumed with rich food, to become part of a whole culinary experience. Also, they tend to make merlot and cabernet taste really boring.

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Nope, the Super_tuscans are the 3 Bs. You are thinking of Bastardo which is the blend that can't be labelled because of quotas.

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I NEVER drink wine, but did a wine tasting while in California (Carmel Valley). The reds were just too much for me to handle, so I'm gonna have to go with whites.

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:46 (twenty-two years ago)

pansy

― the surface noise (electricsound), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:46 (twenty-two years ago)

(sorry)

― the surface noise (electricsound), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:46 (twenty-two years ago)

ooo- you must look me up when next in SoCal--there are some pretty good wineries aout in Temecula, I can point you and the s.o. where to go....

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:47 (twenty-two years ago)

heh i saw that coming, esoj.
will do orbit!

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Orbit, but I thought Barbaresco and Barolo were Piedmontese?

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:51 (twenty-two years ago)

virtually all major Chianti producers have a Super Tuscan label in their portfolios. The fashion has spread to unblended Cabernet, Merlot, Syrah and even Sangiovese, all of which must bear the Vino da Tavola designation.

http://www.azcentral.com/home/wine/articles/0725supertuscan25.html
http://www.azcentral.com/home/wine/articles/0725supertuscan25.html

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:57 (twenty-two years ago)

The word "Super-Tuscan" is in the same family as like "proprietary red" -- each Super-Tuscan is a sort of house specialty, a show-off blend if you will. A Tuscan producer's boldest, most extravagant and stylized blend will be his "Super-Tuscan" -- i.e. it's an industry/consumer term. Many STs are made primarily from Sangiovese, but some are cabernet sauvignon-based. They are seen as international/cosmopolitan rather than rustic and/or distinctly Italian (though they are).

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 18 February 2004 06:01 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, x-post -- thanks for the link, Orbit.

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 18 February 2004 06:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Dominique, just curious: why do you need the primer so urgently? Got some impressing to do? ;-)

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 18 February 2004 06:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I like how, at my age, it's impressive just having four or 5 bottles of wine laying around...

― ModJ (ModJ), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 06:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey thanks Clarke & Orbit. I guess I didn't need it urgently. Except they just opened this central market by my house and half the store is taken up by wines. I'm a definite amateur w/wines, but love to have a glass of merlot w/dinner. Clearly I'll need to check out this other stuff.

Plus, if I had to quit my job and become a wine critic, I need some pointers.

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

RETSINA, baby!!!!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I've done very little wine writing, but what I've done I've really enjoyed. Nothing published or anything, just little write-ups for the store and semi-formal e-mails to the store owner and managers and stuff -- but for some reason it's much easier for me to write about wine than music. I don't feel as emotionally invested in it as I do music, and for some reason that makes writing about it go more smoothly. Also, I'm not nearly as familiar with or immersed in the discourse of wine, so I have less anxiety about the originality and "worth" of my ideas and stuff. I think there's a real need for passionate (but not emo), funny, literate, personal, enjoyable-for-its-own-sake wine writing -- much of what's out there now is overly dry and descriptive, or overwhelmed by cliches of "decadence" and "pleasure" ("beautiful sunsets" and what not -- very high-school-poetry...), or just somehow less interesting than, say, music criticism. Or maybe I just haven't read enough.

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

RED!

australians are all great, in my experience.

the "hill of gold mudgee" was tasty and fairly inexpensive.

as far as everyday goes, my pick is the yellow tail shiraz. about 10 bucks a bottle, and it tastes great.

― the angry cowboy (dick), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Dominique, I definitely recommend a Barbera d'Alba if you're interested in Italian wines. Your friendly wine store clerk should be able to find you a pretty good one for around $10 or $12, but if you're willing to put up $18 or $20 you can get a stellar one.

Yellow Tail isn't bad by any stretch, but there are other low-priced Aussie shirazes that I find a lot more interesting: Milton Park, Thorn Clarke, Wishing Tree, even Rosemount for starters. Yellow Tail is usually a buck or so cheaper ($8 or $9 rather than $10), but that extra buck goes a long way in my experience.

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

What about Italian whites? An American chardonnay that I used to rely on has changed for the worse (or my palate has improved), and therefore I'm trying to find something nice and not particularly expensive for everyday. The viognier I tried recently tasted disconcertingly of mandarin oranges.

― j.lu (j.lu), Thursday, 19 February 2004 04:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I made dinner one time for the girlfriend I was mentioning (more than I should have) last year. She has almost no experience with drinking, and when I was most of the way through cooking (though I still had some work to do), I opened up a bottle of red wine and we both drank some. In a matter of minutes, she was all over me. It was very cute. I was holding a knife and she started hugging me, and I said, "I have a knife in my hand." And she said, "I know you're not going to hurt me with it." And I said, "Yeah, but I could accidentally hurt you!" I had to say, "Of course I want to hold you, but if I don't finish this, we're not going to have dinner." Also, when I said, "Boy, that wine really got to you quickly," she denied it. (When we talked about it another time, she laughed about it and agreed with me.)

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Thursday, 19 February 2004 04:24 (twenty-two years ago)

(And that was very unlike her--not that she was unaffectionate, but she didn't normally just throw herself at me like that.)

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Thursday, 19 February 2004 04:26 (twenty-two years ago)

There is no difference between red and white wine that can be tasted, even by an expert. They go solely by sight and temperature.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 19 February 2004 04:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Clarke B, OTM about the Italian reds, you are better informed than most! Barolos are probably my favorites among reds, I prefer them to Bordeaux--though the really good ones aren't necessarily called by varietal names anymore (see Gaja's proprietary Piedmontese wines) due to the strict regulations associated with the Barolo and Barbaresco labels.

Among Super-Tuscans, search Tignanello, Sassicaia, and Ornellaia. But be prepared to lay out some serious $$$.

― webcrack (music=crack), Thursday, 19 February 2004 05:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Damn, I was hoping to get a rise out of my last post. Oh well.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 19 February 2004 05:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I laughed at it, if that counts.

― webcrack (music=crack), Thursday, 19 February 2004 05:33 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.ctforum.org/news_events/news_item.asp?news_item_id=67

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 19 February 2004 05:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Great article. I'd like to take the black glass test, though I can see how it could be confusing--I tend to associate varietals and specific wines within them with the wine's mouth-feel, or the weight and texture of the wine, as well as the flavor. I love Reverdy Sancerre, but I can see how it could be easy to confuse with a pinot noir as they tend to be equivalent in weight and tannin, though the sancerre will generally be more acidic.

― webcrack (music=crack), Thursday, 19 February 2004 05:53 (twenty-two years ago)

The red/white dichotomy gets way overemphasized. I think it makes more sense to think of wine as a continuum (not necessarily a single one, but different continuums for different facets of the wine, i.e. acidity, weight, etc.). Beaujolais, for instance, has a lot more in common with pinot gris or certain sauvignon blancs than it does with, say, Bandol mourvedre or something equally mouth-spankingly tannic.

― Clarke B., Thursday, 19 February 2004 06:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Agreed, though I hadn't really thought of it that way. It makes sense when you really think about where the color comes from anyway--most whites could be reds after all with a little more contact with skins, seeds, pulp, etc. I would probably call Beaujolais as a white every time in a black glass test, except the carbonic maceration odor might give it away.

― webcrack (music=crack), Thursday, 19 February 2004 06:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Julia, Italy has lots of neat white wines -- obviously there's pinot grigio, which you're probably at least somewhat familiar with. There are also interesting native grapes like vermentino, gavi, falanghina -- and, for excellent sparklers, moscato for the sweet tooth, prosecco for the... (dry tooth?!).

x-post with webcrack -- the black glass test is intimidating to think about, but I'd love to try it!

― Clarke B., Thursday, 19 February 2004 06:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Italy also has Greco di Tufo, excellent white wine! Mmmmm.

― webcrack (music=crack), Thursday, 19 February 2004 06:14 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...

is there a kind of red wine that doesn't generally have 'hints of cherry' and/or plum?

― milo z (mlp), Monday, 9 October 2006 17:55 (nineteen years ago)

sangiovese

― Jaq (Jaq), Monday, 9 October 2006 18:09 (nineteen years ago)

also, nebbiolo, petite syrah, and primitivo

― Jaq (Jaq), Monday, 9 October 2006 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

Rioja

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 9 October 2006 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

carneros

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Monday, 9 October 2006 20:13 (nineteen years ago)

Anything with merlot, cab franc, or carmenere will probably have cherry/plum characteristics. Maybe barbera too.

― Jaq (Jaq), Monday, 9 October 2006 20:33 (nineteen years ago)

one year passes...

Okay this is just driving me crazy, people. There is this brand of French wine and it has "c d r" in huge letters on it. I mean it's supposed to mean cotes du rhone right, but of course it looks like it means CDR as in music to me, these giant letters. I don't know how I ended up with this wine. It was just there. It's not even especially good. But of course it has to say "c d r" on the label.

― Bimble, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 03:52 (eighteen years ago)

Also, white wine is just piss. Blech. I'll have a dry champagne every now and again, but otherwise man, I just cannot do white wine.

― Bimble, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 03:55 (eighteen years ago)

i like red wines. i am a total noob when it comes to wine, but i like it, so i try not to get stuck on the same brand. i am trying different types of napa valley stuff now, but maybe i'll move on to european and aussie stuff soon. right now i like this particular brand of pinot noir, but i tend to like cabernet sauvignon the best in general. i'll usually drop about $18 for a bottle.

i have zero love for white wines.

― rockapads, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 04:35 (eighteen years ago)

I like to savor small amounts of red wine, while white wine is more of a refreshing, outdoor party kind of drink. But in most cases I opt for beer.

― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 04:49 (eighteen years ago)

I like to pair my wine with what I'm eating. I prefer reds, and I fuckin hate chardonnay. Lotsa whiskey lately.

― kate78, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 05:18 (eighteen years ago)

I've had chardonnays that made me reconsider the received wisdom of hating chardonnay

― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 05:21 (eighteen years ago)

lately I think I like cabernets best as far as reds

― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 05:23 (eighteen years ago)

What are these chards?

― kate78, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 05:56 (eighteen years ago)

one was Benziger. Might have been the reserve.

― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 06:00 (eighteen years ago)

But also a cheap one, um, fuck, name is slipping me - it's a really big winery mainly known for good Australian budget wines but this chard was actually South Africa

― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 06:01 (eighteen years ago)

(and it's not yellow tail or rosemount or jacob's creek)

― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 06:02 (eighteen years ago)

Lindemans. Was under 10 and very interesting for a cheap chard.

― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 06:03 (eighteen years ago)

i drink a lot of chardonnay (always aussie).. fave ones are rosemount and trentham estate (and a couple of others). i prefer shiraz, although don't mind cab sav but i can't drink cheap cab at all..

― electricsound, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 06:04 (eighteen years ago)

Shiraz seems more reliable as a cheap wine

― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 13:29 (eighteen years ago)

Can anyone school me in New York and other North Eastern US reds? I like to drink local wherever I am.

― Ed, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 13:34 (eighteen years ago)

i can't, but next time you're in town you should visit one of the vintage new york shops: http://www.vintagenewyork.com/aboutvny.html or the bridge vineyards wine bar: http://www.bridgevineyards.com/menu.html

― lauren, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 14:01 (eighteen years ago)

I think I"ll go with billy joel on this one. ""a bottle red, a bottle of white"

― burt_stanton, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 14:20 (eighteen years ago)

Cool, they may also be able to help me track down the elusive low sulfite wine.

― Ed, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 14:29 (eighteen years ago)

blanc sur rouge, rien ne bouge
rouge sur blanc, tout fout le camp

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 14:30 (eighteen years ago)

The premise of this thread reminded me of the Spy vs Spy cartoon.

― Aimless, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 00:55 (eighteen years ago)

I'm a big fan of Shiraz/Viognier combos, so about 5%-10% white and 90%-95% red. Kangarilla Road and Mr. Riggs are both tasty ones from Austalia, and there are others from the Cote-Rotie. If you smelled them blind, the apricot would tell you that you were about to drink a white.

― Eazy, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 00:59 (eighteen years ago)

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