Match of the Day vs The Premiership

The good thing about The Premiership is the scope of coverage. It has two shows, one at 7pm and another at 11.45pm. This means that, in theory, one can watch them either before going out or after the pub, an improvement on the BBC's piggy-in-the-middle timeslot of around 10pm.

All of this garnered from just 15 minutes viewing though. We'll see how it goes.

Lynam's past his peak, though, isn't he? It was painful comparing him tonight with the clips from the 1990 World Cup on BBC2: this is a television performer on autopilot.

The time slot is OK - 96 is right on that. But this channel-switch makes better than anything I have ever seen the watertight case against adverts on the BBC. I cannot bear the way this prog is broken into adverts. It's not just the stoppages etc - it's the way they're all Football Adverts, Tastefully Shot and pretending they Empathize With Us As Fans. One evening of this was bad enough. Think of the drastic pain of the same week in week out.

You may not want to listen to me on these matters. I adored - still adore - Match of the Day and will never be persuaded that this is an improvement.

(Sorry, I don't think I've ever seen Sky anywhere other than a pub).

And TT certainly lived down to its promise - hey, let's not just interview the poor sod whose harsh dismissal turned the game, let's SIT THEM DOWN IN A BIG VAN FULL OF TELLIES and pick over their red card moment and the deficiencies of their teammates. Prediction: feature will be dropped in a month.

So, essentially - all the old inadequacies of ITV (Lynam so far off his '98 form, they might as well have Richard Keys; there's more - MUCH more - to be said on why Lineker-Hansen-Brooking works and Lynam-McCoist-Venables does not. If The Pinefox wishes to update an old Papercuts article, now might be the time), with a dash of the Satellite Menace. Saving grace: actual presentation of the game. Seems the old zoom-and-lose-greater-picture method has been phased out on the Third Channel.

Still, I have Focus on tape, and will cosy up to that sometime tomorrow.

Jonnie number 5 was throwing cans at the screen (we were a little tipsy) I was merely shouting.

Where was the footage, really, there's a big fuss this morning in the papers - only 28 mins of actual football. This is simply not good enough. The only good thing about it for me was the early timeslot.

Andy Townsend - absolute muppet, one of the most over-rated players the premiership has ever seen, and now the worst pundit.

aaaarrrrgggghhhhhhh

pro-zone, my arse!

Obviously if I was watching Match of the Day my arse would have never left the seat... and as it was the first day of the season I'm not sure if I would have even blinked till the end credits rolled.

Cracking goal by Smudger for the Leeds though...

Greg, sports fan, man of the people.

xoxo

What was quite, quite funny was Gabby Yorath-Logan's mic being left on at each ad break so you could hear her going "Don't panic!" and "It's not going that badly!"

And then his hopes are dashed straight away when one or both of them deadpans "No Bill, of course not".

what i don't like about itv is the desperation of it all; it's improved or at least settled but you can see everyone involved weighing up money/career/are my jokes funny/am i what i used to be etc etc. it's not relaxing to watch like motd was. that's not the ads fault though. at times though the bbc coverage was so fusty and insipid and pointless that i value a bit of itv-style ridiculous hype. though i imagine the fusty and insipid out there would disagree. andy townsend has also improved (though he thinks so too uh-oh), ally mccoist is the hugest unfunny TWAT ever (especially thatflirty thing he thinks he has with gabby logan) and i quite liked big ron stifling his giggles for ages after geremi said "balls" the other nite. des is well past it, where is james richardson these days? football italia- now there was a highlights show

(he could at least do something that'd replace "premiership parliament" or "on the ball" though)

n: football has never been that pure

2. All who've said that ITV 'try to hard to create "personality"' are OTM - it's been one of the problems from the start, really.

3. TS: Premiership Parliament vs The Premiership on Monday

couldn't watch the thing with that fat girl last season

Yet I think it must have been the greatest event in ITV football coverage for many a year.

This season - its only season? Or did it run last year too? yes, I suppose it did - I think I have watched... *every edition*.

It has made me happy, that programme.

It signed off the other night, with little fanfare. My earlier-season wonderings of whether Matt Smith would finally see a need to haul in c.8 panellists to review the season proved baseless.

Yet Smith did say something sparky re. the final Stat of the Day. Was it -- 'A Last Chance For you to get Lost with Lust'? Or was it still more elaborate than that?

Clive Allen, in this final edition, demonstrated how his authority as pundit has grown.

Smith ended it all with a comment about things looking good for Liverpool. I suppose that's how he would always have wanted to end it.

Yes, Townsend is a dead loss. So is Earle, save perhaps for comic value. I am touched to see Stevem backing Clive.

I don't think it's true that they slapped down journos. Certainly Barclay vs Atkinson was a Battle Ronald, I mean, Royale.

In (Barrow In) Fairness (Ron), the Tactics Truck is long gone. It went out with Herbie and his bananas.

Nice one, Doc. Maybe Hoddle!

Why was the name of the league changed from 'The Premier League' to 'The Premiership', anyway?

The Truck may be literally gone, but its ethos has lived on; whenever I saw "The Premiership" in the last season it had some equivalent irrelevancy; Andy Townsend and the rest trying to remember 'all 16 Scandinavian players to have scored a goal in the Premiership since it started...' & c.

Are you saying Matt Smith is gay? I doubt it.

What I will miss: The Premiership on Monday.

Perhaps I have not yet made that clear.

no more Andy Townsend ! YES

Are those five teams promoted via the play offs just since the start of the premiership? or does it include the old 2nd div play off's? Because if it is just since the start of the premiership I would say that five teams is a really high number.

The PoM - words cannot express how much I despise this show. Truly truly truly. The same sort of cockfarmers who work in football marketing infest this utter shower of shite. Champagne moment? Fact of Fiction? WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK? They had this idea that if they thought it was good for a laugh on set, it would be in real life in TV land. This is not true, because they are meejar cunts.

The idea was tactics talk like its down the pub. It is wrong on several levels - down the pub chat is usually shite - that is the point. I want analysis that shows me things I couldn't see. I want straight down the line authoritative - BBC at its best does these things. I fear that MOTD's team are usually so giddy to be back to together that they get all silly. Also, it wasn't realistic, as a player would have said 'fuck tactics - look at the tits on her'.

PS - employ Steve Claridge. Very perceptive on 5Live. Unlike Carlton Palmer.

PPS -Matt Smith's look to camera made me want to kick my screen in. Everytime I try to type what it is about him that irks me so, I end up like a Tasmanian Devil whirling around in madness.

Forgive Stan Collymore his dogging exploits and get him back in the co-commentators seat.

Please.

Which is more than the bloody Premiership ever did.

Eagles Vs Hammers - for a place in the Priemership [and on MOTD]

I wonder whether ITV's show might become venerated in its absence?

I guess that will mainly depend on how much use the BBC make of Wright, Dixon, Adams, Winterburn, Schmeichel, and any other pundit I don't like.

I worry that they are on the verge of tossing their golden legacy down a storm drain.

Not with its coverage of the actual games? More of it and far less bias towards the big three. And TONY GUBBA!

And Peacock over Allen eight days a week.

He used to be, sure. Anmy recent examples, tho'? I get the feeling he's coasting these days, repeats himself a hell of a lot.

= more football - one and half hours of football versus Coke idents, Townsend prattling and Lynam phoning in his performance. he was like Brezhnev in his later days - it could have been a hologram of any Des perfroamnce since 1998 and you couldn't tell.

ITV are shite at football - always have been. I refer anyone to the idea that anyone would listen to a 7" single of their 1986 World Cup theme tune, then use it as their normal theme tune for the next 4 years, regardless of the non-mexican flavour of Sunday 1st division football from Villa park. Cockfarmers, who also started the Premeirship off (Cheers Greg Dyke!) and who by only shoing 'the big five' ensured that those self-same five becamse even more self-important and agressive. So fuck ITV and dig up the founders of it and fuck them too.

MOTD also ahs more match action from all games, which the Premiershite couldn't do. All in all - I have actually made my saturday's fit around seenig MOTD which I never did under the Premiership because it was just rubbish.

Pinefox only asks this because of Matt Smith luv - have you seen him on that stoopid ptrolhead show PF? His matey askance looks and 'I'm just like you viewer only I get to compere these wankers talk shite' really fell on its bum.

I don't believe this to be true. Perhaps it's a false memory but I don't recall late '90s/early '00s MOTD to be purely the Arse and the Manch (and the Chelse).

I thought they should have analysed Atouba's goal a bit more, and they should have made a catty comment about Carr.

Good point that Hansen may be relying on reputation. Look how far back in his chair he slumps!

I think Boyle wants to get in the ring. But with whom?

My comments had little to do with Matt Smith, who never presented the Saturday night Premiership anyway. But it's true, he may have swayed me a little ITV's way.

Allen over Peacock - 6 days a week will do me. He can rest on the 7th.

But Kevin Day was still terrible.

Chiles is hunching, it's dodgy. Chiles feels dodgy to me - OK as a light-hearted radio link-man type, but not for this big job. But are the well-intentioned BBC maybe trying to fill a Midlands hole?

(Then again - Lineker!)

How about a Walsall lass, that would do.

I don't have nae problem wi Strachan. He's quirky, genuinely, I think, as well as put-on persona; a mix. And he can be funny, enough for me.

Odd about Reidy: eh! I 'ope 'e only got 'alf de fee, la!

But mainly, how right WBS is about Anderson. The old-Gooner rules don't apply here - there's Forest, United, Barnsley, pioneer black boss and all, and all. I like him. A really good presence, not pushy, not arrogant, but ready to get involved. Keep him in! Just don't involve his c.1988 replacement, L** D****.

Kevin Day actually seems to be getting worse, from an appalling start. But possibly he just remains appalling.

Thing with Day is that Chiles has worked with him on the radio, and it's worked there, but maybe it's more what Day's being given to work with, which would not be funny in the hands of anyone at all - the "have a look through the footage for hilarious moments of a non-contentious nature" thing is flat-out shit. Then again, he doesn't really do anything to inspire any great confidence at all. Roving reports like the one from Norwich last week are the domain of Football Focus, and from Day's real nervousness as regards how to handle it, they'd do very well to stay that way.

I have faith in Chiles, though - the key is that he is a listener who is approaching this from the angle 'What would I like to watch if I was at home?' He's genuinely really very interested in what the panel had to say, he gives them a lot of room, doesn't try to force the discussion. The problem with this is he doesn't really bring much control with it, and he's possibly a touch too respectful - he's sitting across from three immensely experienced and decorated ex-pros and managers/coaches, and he is well aware that his personal opinion is not going to really count for anything - too aware, perhaps.

However, it is very nice to see someone so willing to just take a back seat and let it flow, and who has such genuine enthusiasm for their programme and its format, who isn't just reading off the effing autocue all the time. I really am quite sure this will grow into something very worthwhile now.

Crooksy is magnificent and should be on MotD every week. I feel a bore for saying this.

Well if you believe mourinho, none of these ppl know ANYTHING about 'futbol'.

They think they know but really...they don't!

What is also interesting about MOTD2 is that it is drawing up very clear lines about who among the BBC's pundit pool would work on it. MOTD2 has already had people that were effective (Anderson, Strachan) and weren't (Houllier). A show that relies on discussion between its pundits requires pundits that are willing to instigate and get involved in that discussion themselves, and it's a very tricky thing to get the tone of it right, to be naturally witty and interesting and not forced or excessively cliquey. I'd be interested to see if "Party On" Garth could do that - if there's one thing he always is, it's himself. I'm fairly sure Schmeichel would be terrible, and Dixon and Bright... do not even go there. Wrighty could do quite well - you'd imagine him, Strachan and Anderson could come up with the odd thing or two to say to each other. Lawro wouldn't work because he's too reliant on being asked questions by the main presenter, and I'm pretty certain that that's a reason why it probably wouldn't suit The Peacock either, he's not the type to go for debates, but rather an analyst who likes making his own statements - that said, he was quite definitely the most effective pundit at the African Nations, and one of the few who was capable of starting a discussion with whoever he was sharing the sofa with (christ knows Crooks couldn't). I'd imagine we can safely rule Hansen out of the equation - he'd probably do alright, but he'd definitely never deign to grace it with his presence + fear of Strachan going at him Martin O'Neill-style.

Thinking about this, though - Strachan and O'Neill (w/Anderson as referee). You'd pay to see that, no?

I think he is terrible.

This week we have extra MOTD on Wednesday! I think Gary L is in charge.

A cringy 'walking across the pitch interview' and cut and paste terrace introduction set the scene. Then 20 minutes of the Plymouth game (including adverts). Still Beautiful Day, which was incorrect because it was cloudy.

Tuesday night, late highlights, after the Rooneyfest, he signed off:

So guess who made the headlines tonight - something old: Trafford - something new - you know who - something borrowed - hardly, at £27m - and, of course, he used to be a Blue. Two words: Wayne Rooney. Third word: Night.

It was so surreally fine that I must write it down, on the spot. But I don't see it being revived and adapted as regularly as 'Remember The Name!'.

During the good bit of yesterday afternoon (before Redknapp* tried to maim Cahill and things went wrong at Goodison) there was a compendium of Garth Crooks light entertainment moments - including the great man introducing Altered Images on TOTP in 1982 alongside Peter Powell! I nearly choked on my cashews.

(* - in the Goodison h/t tunnel scuffle Redknapp was initially cited as the peacemaker. Steve McMahon said, "You're jokin'. He was in the piano with the lid down." Fantastic.)

Alan Hansen never tried it quite so obviously with Des.

I hope Chiles continues to speak his mind, right or wrong. I mean, I don't think he's very good at this, but no one would want to watch Hansen going round a fish finger factory either.

To paraphrase John Cooper Clarke. "They can’t find a good word for you Hansen, but I can... TWAT." I've never forgiven the cunt for losing that goal against Russia in the 1982 World Cup, they should show that more often, that might shut him up.

As you can see, I've been thinking about this all day.

I am not sure whether AH meant any of it. He did say 'I'm kiddin', by the way - I'm only kiddin''.

I very much agree with Mr Miller, though, that they must get along, as colleagues, and that bullying is wrong.

I think it was seen as an Event that they had managed to get Hansen on at all. He stands somewhat aloof from these 'secondary programmes'. If he goes on Focus, he's always late.

Mike -- this Crooks montage -- are you sure you're not just making it up to get me excited and regretful that I didn't see it?

Carlton Palmer was the loose cannon on the show - ready to give his opinion on an apparently fictional training ground bust-up between Bent and Gravesen ("I'm not surprised those two went at it, cos..." Stubbs: "But it didn't happen, Carlton.") and also carelessly wading in on dubious refereeing decisions. Maybe they won't invite him back.

It was about England vs Germany.

Some bits were good.

What annoyed me: for the first time in 14 years, a retro programme has noticed that Chris Waddle hit a shot on target, in a World Cup semi-final, from the centre circle. Yet after they'd shown it, and Motson had mentioned Pele (very calmly - he would be all excited if now saying the same thing about Rooney or anyone), we just got Gary Lineker sniffing 'He was never gonna score'.

At least it was on target from 50 yards, Gary! Roughly 45 yards further out than most of your shots! Jayzus - I think this was THE BEST SHOT EVER FIRED BY AN ENGLISH PLAYER IN A WORLD CUP, and that's all they can find to say about it.

Not that I can still see these events like yesterday or anything. Dry your eyes mate etc.

Golden boot? He got that 4 years earlier innit.

I just wish they would give Wads his due.

There was, by the way, much discussion of when Wads hit the post. Bobby Robson still says 'theirs was going out - ours was IN', exemplifying an endearing way in which his passion drives his perception.

You've taken that too far.

I don't see anyone making a documentaries about Brz '02 or, for that matter Por '04.

Steve - the point to the programme seemed to be that this was when football came out from its 'hooliganism' image and went to something that everybody liked and many others got into - and this particurlar match was the link.

My brother watched this with me - we were trying to think of players who were booked in a semi of a major tournament and could not take place in the final - what were their contributions to the match? We came up with 3 players and all of them scored apart from gascoigne.

Roy keane was one of them but I can't remember the others.

x-posts

Oh, I think a reconstruction of that night in Crystal Palace might be worthwhile - the build-up, the excitement of opening the pizza boxes, the text messages from Mr. Hopkins, etc.

i had not thought of that, good point.

I think Hansen gets this way whenever he leaves the relative comfort of the Main Pundit On The Big Match role.
I remember him appearing as a guest on the Frank Skinner show: he was asked one question and instantly went into a tirade of (slightly paraphrased) "Go on then ya cunt make us all laugh! That's your thing int it ya bam! I say something then you take the piss! Go on then ya brummy wanker! FUCKING MAKE US LAUGH!"
Skinner looked really uncomfortable (almost as uncomfortable as the infamous "You called me a child molester" show with M4tthew K3lly) so I suppose that was a good thing.

http://www.baggies.com/celebrities/

Judas Priest be warned.

Here's the transcript (doncha love t'internet)

Alan Let's hear it!

Frank This is you talking about your home life, you and your wife Janet, who I've met and is very nice 'When we've had a takeaway'

Alan Oh no, I don't want to hear this!

Frank No its nice…'When we've had a takeaway we usually take a big glass of Ribena up to bed. Because more often then not, we'll wake up at some stage gasping for a drink. If we've had one too many glasses of wine, we always forget, and then you can be sure Janet will be saying to me in the night 'Please get me a drink of water'

Alan It's great to be a bore isn't it, but you're pretty good at it yourself.

Frank That's not boring, I think that's nice, that you've got a nice domestic home life.

Alan So why you going to laugh in a minute? Why are you going to crack a funny and then laugh?

Frank I want to know...don't get touchy, relax trust me. Why does she ask for a glass of water when there's Ribena in the house? If you're going to get up and get water, is it any extra bother for you to put a little bit of Ribena in there.

Alan Honestly, wrongly quoted. They've done it again.

Frank They've stitched you up with the old water remark.

Alan Stitched me up with the Ribena. Can you believe that?

Frank So you don't have the Ribena in? Oh Alan you do.

Alan No honestly, we've stopped it.

Frank Ah but you used to? It's alright, It doesn't make you a bad person. I think it's all right.

Alan You see you're smiling. First you said it was nice, then you're smiling, laughing and there is still a funny to come yet, I can feel a funny coming on.

Frank I wish you were right.

Alan So do the audience!

Frank Meaning?

Alan Come on I want to hear it! I want to hear the funny! The funny isn't going to come?

Frank No, I just want to hear about you're home life!

Alan Come on, lets get on with it. I want to hear the funny, the audience want to hear the funny! The audience are gasped in anticipation. Not for the Ribena, but for the funny.

Frank Who's side are you on? You've changed. I just wanted to know about the Ribena. Because when you said you take a big glass up, does that mean you share it? Or do you have 2 beakers. If it's 1 glass what side of the bed does it go on? Do you have a small shelf centrally above you?

Alan Are we getting there?

Frank Well, the audience are laughing!

Alan So what do you drink during the night?

Frank I don't, I'm asleep.

Alan That's not what I've heard!

Frank I haven't upset you have I?

Alan No. I'm still here aren't I?

Frank Accept this as a token. I don't like to think you're off the Ribena for any special reason

FRANK GIVES ALAN A BOTTLE OF RIBENA

Alan That's not what I've heard!

Genius.

There was the funny, just there!

I am pleased, really, because I have trouble sleeping if Hansen is nasty.

I say, I do like 'The Strachan View'. Will he be able to carry on if Scotland appoint him this week, as is not expected?

Also, Chiles kicked off a wee tad nervously, or self-referentially, by saying 'Alan Hansen's here to put us straight on a few things'.

When Rooney's goal went in - on the highlights, I mean (I didnae know the result) - I danced around the room like 'Minor Character' was playing.

MOTD was spectacular on Saturday in the sense that it featured Everton as the lead match. It's been a while. It may be a while again.

I enjoy the flurry of chuckling and impenetrable Scots asides that accompany our return to the studio after an amusing filmed item on MOTD2. And Chiles has improved 100% (or 110% if Bob Paisley had anything to do with it).

Didn't Alan Hansen say at one point 'what kind of question is this?' when the referees were being discussed after Kevin Keegan's rant and Chiles hadn't even finished speaking! Though I thought it was more jokey than when I saw MOTD2 a few weeks ago.

http://www.stone0898.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

Did anyone see the trailer for MOTD2, before Whose News Is It Anyway, when Starchan and Hansen were pretending to be tall/short in direct contravention of Chiles's introduction of them? I think that really set the tone for the whole evening.

I agree that highlights are best, except when Spurs are playing. When, come to think of it, it is probably best to see nothing, hear nothing and learn nothing.

What is the time?

My computer clock sys 6:51, my watch says 6:45. It is rather important that I get it, roughly, right. Perhaps my watch is dying on me. Yes, I expect so.

I wonder if anyone will sell me a battery. I need a new strap as well.

Eespecially an Arab one.

When I was unemployed, I was that sad man

Watch straps can be very expensive.

No Strachan - bad.

Moyes - diplomatic.

Le Saux or however you write it - what a pleasant young man.

I do love David Moyes though.

on his return, he became soxy.

Chiles was abysmal - abysmal. Most of what he said, he said twice - twice.

Chiles seemed strangely liberated by the absence of Strachan and Hansen, for the worse.

Thanks, Mooro. You were in my dream last night.

Chiles is rubbish, I'm goping to stop sticking up for him and defending him from now on.

What would be nice, something that would be very good, is if they had Souness on as guest pundit. I enjoyed seeing him on full-on psycho stare mode last night. That's exactly how he looked at me, you know, when he was parked behind the chip shop while his lackey went and got him some chips.

It's become part of my Sunday night routine now (I like to be in bed by the time the Saturday goals replay rolls round) and I think I'd miss it. The missus likes Chiles.

The remarkable thing about the kissing debate was that two hoary old footballers made a highly-trained journalist look like a complete homophobe while they came out of it smelling of roses. In a way. Perhaps it is 'LAD CULTURE' gone doolally.

'Why do manangers celebrate more nowadays?'
'Blah blah'
'Yes, but why do managers celebrate more nowadays?'

On Saturday, my mother laughed at Linekar's reference to his eight year-old son and said that she liked Linekar because he's got a twinkle in his eye.

All three were rather fruity late on on Saturday night.

So, Chiles had the temerity to start a debate about The Kissing Time?

Lineker / Hansen / Lawro were so relaxed on Saturday that it was as though they were still waiting for the cameras to - 'roll'.

The former Liverpool duo delight in mocking the ex-Blue! don't they.?

they will be relegated

I think the hampsters will stay up. I'd love to see Portsmouth relegated though, I'd be able to watch matches without wanting to find that berk with the bells and rectally insert them (in him, obv)

I think Tottenham will stay up.

but they didn't look like Premiership material until March 2004, and entering the top flight as the play-off winners, they were always going to be favourites to go right back down again.

I am sorry about my spelling. From now on, I will call him Gary L.

PF, I once saw Souness behind the chip shop on Great Western Road next to Kelvinbridge underground station in Glasgow. There's like a little alley behind it which cuts all of thirty seconds off your journey. He was sitting in his car with somebody else while someone (presumably) went in to get his chips. He looked at me in a very unpleasant way and I was a bit frightened. Of course, he was King of the Castle then, but now he's not. So his glowers are less powerful.

I liked the way that Strachan wore his shirt untucked.

Strachan is so lovely and cute, I just want to tuck him up in bed with a hot water bottle and read him a story. Does anyone else feel the same?

I am sending Chiles to do a report on your workplace, Mooro. You can hang around in the background making wanker signs.

Were you in bed in time, Mike?

I don't know about weeping, just resigned chuckling at the thought of ever having had a chance against mighty Liverpool, really.

NB: They talk about *it* there, I should have said.

Chiles would make a bad Have I Got News For You guest presenter, I fear.

I am sorry that you wasted your time on Liverpool wins, Mike: that does sound unfortunate.

Can't you multi-task, Mike? I was sadly googling Liverpool scores and watching MOTD2 at the same time.

I have said elsewhere that I would like Strachan to be the Scotland manager just for the press conferences. He is the reason I watch MOTD2 (that, and being too much of a cheapskate to get Sky Sports)

There's a wall in the way. Or ten feet of hallway and a right-angled turn if we're talking about the telly in the bedroom.

I should make clear that only my choice of subject matter was appalling, not my partners in banter.

I missed HIGNFY entirely. We may have been skirting Tarporley on the A54 at the time, or eating curry at Moreton Cross.

Do you like it when the camera doodlebugs the stadiums before matches?

Do you mean in a drifting blimp stylee or the crash-zoom from space? I like 'em both. There's a touch of ITV about the latter but, being the Beeb, I'm sure those aerial maps are meticulously researched.

(Mark C: the last LP I bought was the first Bee Gees album on cassette for 35p so we could listen to New York Mining Disaster 1941 in the car. So, no.)

Porkpie, do you listen to 'Duelling Banjos' to get you in the mood before fishing trips?

I think Mike has been playing 'New York Mining Disaster 1941' at the wrong speed. 70mph in a built-up residential area.

What I really can't understand - when sometimes the person talking is in normal speed, the people walking past their elbow and gurning at the camera are speeded up! This is unnatural.

I hope I don't spoil your taped MOTD PJ by revealing that it did not feature either Lineker nor Hansen. Lineker's replacement was bespectacled (very unusual these days) but competent and animated. he should probably be doing MOTD2 rather than Chiles.

Pougatch has Ukranian roots - his autobiography would be called He Came From The Ukraine on A Donkey, because that's what his grandad did. Perhaps he should concentrate on writing a biography of his grandad first.

Farewell My Lovely isn't very good, five stars or not. It's just a load of people acting. All the good stuff is Chandlerisms, which can be better enjoyed by READING.

i was bemused and impressed by Pougatch - you could sense he was going for it, taking the opportunity with all the relish a man can muster, which as we all know can often be a lot.

I've never been to Anfield, though. I did once pass it in a taxi - hair turned white, fingernails fell out, went blind, etc.

*to see an international match, so perhaps it doesn't count

Unhappily, he likes Snow Patrol.

JtN: I see your Matt Smith and I raise you Gabriel Clarke.

I hope HIGNFY have the good sense to employ Elton Welsby as a guest host next series.

Portman Road (of course), Withdean 'Stadium', Molineux, Loftus Road, White Hart Lane, Highbury, Selhurst Park, Upton Park and Chelsea's shithole (worst ground ever! - for away fans at least)

Welsby: oh, yes.

JtN: thanks: must read that. Was Morley the interviewer?

Was it about Matt Smith?

my main problem is that the sunday repeat is on too early

Scottish ones: Celtic Park, Ibrox, Hampden, Pittodrie, Tannadice, Dens Park, Easter Road, Tynecastle, McDiarmid Park, Muirton Park (former St Johnstone ground), Broadwood, East End Park, Fir Park, Love Street, Firhill, Station Park (Forfar), New Kilbowie, Victoria Park (Ross County), Borough Briggs (Elgin City) and various Highland League (i.e. non-league so don't count) grounds.

Only other stadium I have watched a match in: Olympic Stadium, Seville.

it's just good to be able to keep up with these conversations and the ones in the office. and occasionally something interesting will happen (the handball that resulted in everton's penalty this weekend for instance)

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1352950,00.html

I was torn between wanting to see England's ineptitude get buried under an avalanche of second-half Spanish goals or see Ashley Cole or SWP dance through the home defence and nab an equaliser to silence the racist clowns. Of course, neither of these things was ever likely to happen.

yr man Rooney has a lot of growing up to do (well, he is only 19 I suppose but still....)

he just remonds me of Kevin the teenager so much sometimes. Owen for instance (great tackle in manyoo match apart) was far more calm and professional at that age I think.

the spanish fans should be rounded up, put in a field, and educated...

I'd like to hear Pj's long answer, I hope it's not lost forever.

Monkey chanting is not standard Spanish practice, defending football people whatever they do (ie Aragones making racist comments) is, especially if the critics are foreign, and extra-especially if the foreigners in question still haven't given Gibraltar back.

I spent years being driven mental by causal racism in Spain, then I just stopped bothering, it was too exhausting. There are people working to get rid of racism, but it's a big job. The standard answer used to be (get this) 'there's no racism here because there are no races'. That is changing now, as Spain experiences its first real wave of immigration of modern times. I think it will be a bumpy ride, but I imagine Britain was just as bad in 1964 or whenever.

These people bring out an annual report which makes for depressing reading. Incidentally, racism is rife across the political spectrum, so-called leftwingers are just as bad. Well, the pro-ETA ones anyway. It is mostly directed against gypsies.

This is the Bizkaia version, I don't know why:

http://www.sosracismo.org

I don't think England's cause was helped by trying to take the moral high ground by wearing those t-shirts and so on. I know the intention was good, but it seemed to backfire, both on the field (the Spanish were really fired up) and off (I'm sure the chanting wouldn't have happened without this).

Not that I'm defending the morons.

Now I come to think of it, one of the reasons I stopped going to Real Sociedad was because I had to hear racist comments all the time. But the same applies to Tamworth (the match sponsor 'VIP' group from a company called Autosmart) and Burton, so....

People think Matt DC is American because he is always talking about his Spurs.

That was a funny goal last night. The Nun was particularly beatific after the match. I may start referring to Villa as 'we' for the duration of this good spell.

Meanwhile, in Smug Before The Fall news, I would like to point out that the last time Everton started a season 9-2-3 we won the title by 13 points with five games to spare. So this season is already shaping up to be a disappointment.

'Bottomless Gormless' - unreleased Kraftwerk classic.

PS: The film was a game of two halves.

He hearts Steed Malbranque

Blair would have Alex Ferguson in the Cabinet. He doesn't go to matches because people force him into executive boxes and make him talk about politics.

He looked terrified, and a bit either asleep, unsure, or waiting for prompting. He kept pausing and didn't sound at all convincing about anything.

I would like to see Motty on Question Time. No, seriously.

So does PJM. I would, too.

Blair was embarrassingly nervy and deferential, as he is in 'non-political' scenarios. Yet it cannot be said that his judgement of footy matters was altogether awry: as Alba and JtN point out, his judgements were oddly accurate.

Boyle is absolutely right to say that Blair looked terrified when they replayed the old radio interview. It was as though, having just made a claim, it was going to be undermined 30 seconds later, and we were about to see him lying outright on live TV, as it happened. It would have been so emblematic. And this is just Football Focus.

But it did not happen; the tape proved his innocence - which perhaps makes me wonder why he looked so scared.

On the whole, otherwise, he was fairly uncontroversial and unenlightening. Surely he could at least, for instance, have said that Supporters' Trusts are a good thing? But then, perhaps he doesn't think they are.

A terrific photo in the next day's paper showed him talking afterwards, not with Lawro and Manish (sp?) but with... Hansen... Lineker... and ... yes: the man who cut his political teeth on Dispatch Box: CROOKSY!

He said when he was first over in England on some job, he was working with Garth Crooks, who proved unable or unwilling to remember Greg's face, and instead introduced himself or asked Greg who he was over and over again.

The more times the better.

Arsehole.

Lineker continues to flourish imo - maybe it's taken for granted? but he's at the top of his game, the presenting game that is.

Apprently he was/is going to be on Breakfast this morning. We the viewers were invited to try and stump him with tricky questions about Leicester.

As you can see, I am already hard at work, so I couldn't watch it.

Lawrie Sanchez seemed an utter bastard to me - and believe it or not, that came as a surprise.

I heard Des on Parkinson yesterday, both of them saying TV critics are impotent, ie. don't matter. In a way, it was a relaxed, engaging meeting of two broadcasting greats - well, one great, with some geezer from Yorkshire. But in a way, also, it was two rich fellows chuckling over the complacency they can now get away with.

Just realized that the start of this thread directly coincided with the arrival of the TACTICS TRUCK. It's like finding a tablet of stone recording the parting of the Red Sea.

Steady Mike and I last night watched Tyldesley rather than BBC, if only cos, in Mike's spontaneously superb formulation, Guy Mowbray has third place play-off written all over him.

It's one thing not to be able to replace David Coleman or Barry Davies. But making Guy Mowbray your #1 commentator and giving him the World Cup Final?

I don't recall noticing Mowbray much, which is how I want it from my commentators frankly.

Is it me or does Hansen spoil MOTD2? He sits there like a fucking critic waiting for the others to do something wrong. The whole atmosphere is all wrong. It reminded me of that awful time he was on Frank Skinner's show and was giving it "Says something funny then! Come on Frank you're supposed to be funnier than that! MAKE US LAUGH FRANK!"
Arsehole.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, November 8, 2005 5:10 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Still true. The main problem for me is that the bbc studio is always full of unpleasant people who poison the atmosphere. You need no hansen, no shearer and no lawrenson before it becomes decent watching. ITV is almost always more pleasant now but the adverts are killer. I rarely bother with the punditry now, it's only worth it for the replays.

Guy Mowbray may not be a marquee name but he can't possibly be worse than Tyldesley can he? I get more than enough Clive over the course of the season as it is.

Apparently Alan Hansen is actually a pretty nice guy in real life, he's getting increasingly half-arsed when it comes to his hardman act. I can cope with either Hansen or Shearer on their own, together they're appalling. Here's hoping Shearer gets a job in management sometime soon.

Can't be doing with Lawro or Townsend at all, for entirely different reasons.

started watching bbc coverage last night but eventually had to switch to itv due to lawro's constant negative vibes complaining about a shit game. but then itv weren't much better. personally thought it was a good game.

Don't wish to wallow in the past, but this thread was really something in 2004-05. Perhaps it can be again...

From The Fiver the other day:

What's got eight arms, no spine and makes wild predictions about football matches without having a clue?

The Match of the Day panel.

Seemed to be some distinct bad vibes between Shearer and Hansen throughout the BBC's coverage, I think. Following his failure at the Lolcastle, it feels like Shearer realises punditry is his only career now, thinks he needs to make some kind of panel powergrab and has become even more boorish as a result.

The combination of Lineker - who, after all these years, still feels like a supply teacher who thinks he's still one of the kids - Shearer, Hansen and Dixon/Lawro is absolutely deadly. They really need a European/South American/Hodgson-style eminence grise to make them up their game.

I don't particularly warm to Lineker, but I have to admit he's a fine presenter and does a decent line in deadpan. There was one bit in the lead-up yesterday where Lineker was running through the Dutch penalty in the 74 final and pointed out the foul might have been outside the box "... but they didn't have technology in those days".

A couple of seconds later Shearer got it and bellowed "THEY DON'T HAVE IT NOW!!". He does this all the time, and it's starting to crack me up.

I realised how good Lineker was in 2006, when they had the likes of Ian Wright and Leonardo in the studio dropping enormous clangers and the thing kept threatening to spin out of control and Lineker would get things back on track with a knowing look to the audience. Leonardo talking about golden showers and Lineker going "well at least you all now know it's not scripted" was a classic.

Amid the torpor of 2010's panel, not so much.

BBC badly missed Martin O'Neill this time round.

Yeah Seedorf only partly made up for O'Neill's absence.

ITV's panel was still worse, though. Watching Southgate desperately trying to carry Davids and Vieira was painful. Poor Lucas Radebe seemed to have no idea what he was doing there, Desailly just seems to be becoming increasingly incoherent, and Townsend looks every inch the man who is far too secure in his job.

From the BBC website's news ticker:

The World Cup final drew a peak audience of 17.9m viewers on BBC One, and 3.8m on ITV1

Ouch.

I'd expect ITV to do worse than the BBC but 3.8m is embarassing.

BBC having us on there surely

I don't know if this has been mentioned but Lineker, Hansen, Shearer and Dixon were all wearing suits (with ties) last night, which seemed odd to me. I wondered what the reason for it was, so checked to see if the ITV team were doing the same but they were dressed casually as usual.

As has been already mentioned, Hansen and Shearer is a bad combination. Hansen has become a parody of himself and his comments seem repetitive and predictable. Of course, from his playing career he is clearly something of an expert on defensive play, but the way he always homes in on 'dire' defensive mistakes has become annoying, as has his over-reliance on a very limited repertoire of phrases consisting of two words joined by 'and', eg 'passion and commitment'. Shearer is really dislikeable. Lee Dixon, on the other hand, I quite like. I think Shearer, Lawrenson and Hansen all come across as being over-aggrandised by having BBC contracts. Lawrenson's history piece about the Spion Kop was awful (actually I detested all the BBC's woven-in history segments, and also that bus that travelled around, with the insufferable Dan Walker).

Overall I much prefer the ITV coverage, despite the ads and the irritating theme music/title sequence. I know he is not popular here but I like Andy Townsend. I like his briskness. Regardless of which channel they appear on, I tend to like old pros who keep it brisk and hard-bitten, which means I like Townsend, and also Mark Bright (I like the way he gets over-excited), Jim Beglin, Mick McCarthy, and even Kevin Keegan.

I watched Hitchcock's VERTIGO last night and early on in the film James Stewart appears to be doing a very plausible ALAN HANSEN impersonation. Could it be that ALAN HANSEN's entire screen persona is based on James Stewart's combination of bewilderment and indignation?
PS: The film was a game of two halves.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 21 December 2004

also Mark Bright (I like the way he gets over-excited)

You lost me there

iirc the viewing figures for the World Cup final always break down roughly like this btw

Almost all pundits wore suits until a certain point, which may have been about 2006. Then the norms changed and channels copied each other. I thought the change was a bad thing, partly because I think these people are too complacent as it is: wearing a suit might at least give them more of a sense of gravitas; dressing casually confirms to them that this is casual and they needn't make any effort. This tendency to complacency has blighted hitherto peerless BBC coverage for years.

Suits have continued to be used in outside broadcasts / live games, etc, sometimes.

Mike last night constructed Andy Townsend's work schedule, in full, as follows.

6:58pm: arrive at studio. Wear pink shirt.

also Mark Bright (I like the way he gets over-excited)

You lost me there

He tends to get over-excited by goalmouth incidents, bad misses and so on, and start shouting. There is something endearing about it.

Guy Mowbray is absolutely terrible, as I keep saying

Beeb considers him better than Jonathan Pearce?

I didn't think the suits were necessarily a bad thing. It just seemed odd to me that they wore them for the final. As far as I am aware, they dressed casually for all the previous games.

If I was Pearce, I'd be looking for a move to another channel

Dubmill, suits are good - that's my view. They should all wear them all the time.

It's true about JP: he's talented, distinctive, a personality; it makes no sense to promote GM above him.

I think Clive T is talented too, and better than any other BBC voice (unless Motson is still around domestically).

I like Clive Tyldesley too. Although he can be annoying with some of the things he says, I generally like his turn of phrase.

I did say yesterday that Pearce/McCarthy would have been my dream-team

In the end, we put the radio commentary on, which was OK for the time Alan Green wasn't speaking in

I thought Southgate spoke a lot of sense. I keep banging on about it, but his efforts to educate the viewers about man-marking and zonal-marking, something that usually gets an "Ahhh, zonal-marking, just doesn't work" from Hansen or Shearer, gets massive kudos from me. Edgar Davids is dull. There's something about Marcel Desailly that I just can't stand.

I feel for guys like Southgate and Dixon who actually do that 'educate & explain' stuff yet remain resolutely second-tier. Evidently the networks have concluded that the public wants received wisdom instead. I assume they'll've researched it, but that might be naïve of me

xxp I turned the radio off, too infuriated by Alan Green and his obvious hatred of football.

Just wasn't the same without Robbie Earle there

I've warmed to Desailly this time round after previously thinking he was awful. If you listen closely there's an occasional gem of insight hidden under the excitable stream-of-consciousness.

I like Townsend, and also Mark Bright (I like the way he gets over-excited), Jim Beglin, Mick McCarthy, and even Kevin Keegan....I like Clive Tyldesley too.

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/scream.jpg

Dixon isn't second tier, he's constantly on the rise, has his column etc on the website. I like Dixon. I think southgate is awfully dull tho.

Did they just not bother to take Martin Keown to the World Cup? If so big round of applause BBC.

Keown was second commentator for a few early games. Then I guess he disappeared.

Southgate's competent dullness could work on a panel that isn't comprised of idiots and wankers.

You shouldn't need Gareth Southgate anywhere near the panel. Surely there are enough ex-footballers/managers out there who both know what they're talking about and are good on telly? The latter bit being the bit that's mostly ignored.

Watching BBC/ITV/Sky, it's alarming how little so many ex-players and pundits actually know about football!

The best panel the Beeb had all tournament was chucked away in an afternoon group game slot, where they had Colin Murray anchoring a panel of McCarthy, Hodgson and Dixon. Chiles is a much better anchorman than Lineker, though the company Lineker is stuck with most of the time does make him shine in comparison. I too had to turn over to Tyldesley, Lawrenson's consistent negative nancy act was so irritating I thought I would actually prefer to listen to Craig Burley.

Panels really missing the O'Neill/Strachan axis of comedy and non-line-toeing this year. I think they strove to find it by flinging a pished Danny Baker in once, but it didn't quite come off and was quickly shelved in favour of received wisdom and meh nothingness.

very odd MotD2 tonight.

Banter between Murray and Lawro based on secret shared jokes
Murray's repeated strained analogies
Shearer and everyone pretending they've never dismissed Berbatov who is now 'the wizard of Old Trafford' etc

and Motson's astonishing reflective-pensioner commentary, unlike any I can remember.

motty's commentary was weird wasn't it. seemed completely, erm, with it during his world cup cameos. odd.

It was as if he didn't realize he was actually doing a commentary - no raised voice, no excitement, no prepared lines - but instead was just talking to himself as he always does watching a match, but with a microphone on.

I've never heard him so quiet and casual. There was a sadness about it too, perhaps deriving from his resignation at the impossibility of Blackpool's task.

Think feigning excitement about what was the most routine of routine wins would have been worse.

i hadn't seen this for a long time but whatisup with the outro music? also colin murray is shooting for a cast-inclusive tfi friday vibe.

yeah i much preferred it to the relentless bellowing bombast anyone else would have employed tbh. what set it apart more than the tone i think was his absent-pundit musing (over an extended passage of play) on what blackpool's gameplan was trying to be. ("they want baptiste in the hole, but..."). most unusual.

murray's "lonely as barthez in a barbershop" gag so stale it wasn't even worth the groan.

also shearer being so bewilderingly loud and obnoxious in defending torres i actually had to turn the volume down.

Lawro + Shearer + Murray is pretty much the worst panel imaginable out of the current crew. Only Robbie Savage and his faux-matey laugh-hysterically-at-his-own-joke-then-slap-co-pundit-on-the-leg nonsense would be worse.

Banter between Murray and Lawro based on secret shared jokes

― the pinefox, Sunday, 19 September 2010 21:59

This has been the way on the BBC for some time now. It is often the case that I get a sense they are playing games - trying to say a daft word as many times as possibe, for example. There is a minor betting scoop here somewhere. Possibly.

I like Robbie Savage!

since we're on the general subject i was reduced to watching final score for a bit this weekend and my god, you think you remember how much of a bellend garth crooks is but you really don't. an impossibly awful man.

sav is not even a lovable prat but such is the sheer boorishness otherwise (dicko excepted obv) that i'll accept him without complaint. wouldn't say no to a carlton palmer comeback either tbh.

HAHA I REMEMBER THIS!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD6V2xFwpps

:D best laugh I've had all day

really enjoyed motson's commentary once i decided he was doing it on purpose and i wasn't just listening to his mind falling apart

btw - this is something I've wondered for a while. It is generally thought that the commentary for highlights football is done after the game has ended, right?

crooks is v weird, i go to the footie focus meetings for work and he is like king of the castle. motty has an ancient looking jotter and is quite friendly.

i remember that cobra thing too! it's the way he says cobb-ra that really adds to it. does anyone remember him saying in passing "when you think of your truly world class players, your drogbas, your shevchenkos, your les ferdinands"

lols here it is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsFX2a626OE

MotD: Lineker fumbling simple links and forgetting to ask Hansen to do his 'Liverpool analysis' (which = 'mixed emotions'). Later Lineker announces LAST SEASON'S goal of the season - 'a bit late, probably cos we forgot all about it'.

it's actually been better than usual tonight, for all that

What was goal of the season btw?

Figueroa from his own half vs Stoke.

It is often the case that I get a sense they are playing games - trying to say a daft word as many times as possibe, for example. There is a minor betting scoop here somewhere

^sounds exactly like something Shearer would do. I remember when he was playing for England he got a bet going where they tried to get as many song titles into interviews - the one and only time I found him mildly amusing.

[Murray reprised it in world cup 2010, instance of his hyperactive self-conscious 1998 retro style]

I'm not sure but I think John Motson's strange commentary last week was at least partly the result of him not having mastered the technique of commentating on recorded highlights and making it sound like you were actually there at the game (someone above alluded to this issue as well). Last night his commentary sounded more like his old self. I can't remember which match it was, but I believe he was at the game and his commentary was 'live' in this case. Having said that, there is something going on with him and his voice. He may not have the lung capacity he used to, so he sounds a bit breathless and quiet at the best of times.

Shearer calling David Silva David Villa twice and Lineker having to correct him.

Lineker forgetting to ask Hansen for his Liverpool analysis was great. Mentioned it in the other thread but his Ginola joke got completely lost in all that, too. Funny stuff.

Enjoyed MotD's final-day montage of games, but Mowbray is unbearable, the worst of all the BBC's commentators: it's awful that he's mysteriously been promoted to pole position.

John Motson referring to Arsenal's "more attacking formation". I always thought they were too defensive.

Final montage showing Lineker telling Hansen he'd forgotten to ask him for his LFC analysis

as discussed upthread.

Mowbray has a weird throaty voice and a perpetual tone of melodramatic "well that's a turn up for the fucking books" pomposity; I feel like every sentence he says is like Christian Bale sarcastically shouting "A DA-DAH DA-DAH" at a director of photography, but slowed down

that montage was the vilest thing ever, made kurt kren look like ozu

Mowbray is horribly presumptuous - ie he seems to be always making presumptions about what YOU are thinking, when it's only what he is thinking.

Pomposity and irony together, yes, very bad. And he's been made #1.

WOULD, YOU, beLIEVE it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua9hYey-uHw

http://i.imgur.com/EjZ7d.jpg

GM kind of dreadful even in that short clip - the faux-geezer attempt to ingratiate himself. Repellent overall.

Failing to ingratiate yourself in a faux-geezer way with Mark Lawrenson, man

http://www.theworldcupingermany.com/artman/uploads/webfeed_new.gif

I thought Motson's effusive coverage of the 7th* most important game of the day was a delight. Bless him.

(* - in order of presentation, anyway; EFC-Chelsea was perhaps the least meaningful game of the day - Everton might have dropped a place and Chelsea were only mathematically threatened by Man City, but that was it - but it was up after the relegation battle).

mew MOTD contract agreed - finally with iPlayer availability (from Monday evenings)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18205519

Hmm, I tend to catch up with MOTD on Sunday, double-header with MOTD2, so although welcome, this is virtually useless to me. Looks like I'm sticking with t0rr3nt3 for now. What's so special about monday evenings?

Alan Hansen just completed his last Match of the Day.

Moving.

managed to get a plug in for Sherwood before he went at least

Thanks for the memories Sherwood.

Will he ever get the forest gig

"Marquee Moon" on Match of the Day?