Learn me about American sports

Why do the games all have to be so high-scoring?

Because everything in America is BIG!

Why do they stop all the time?

Sadly, it's advertising. I think the REAL reason that footy never has and never will take off in the states is that there's really not much room for ads. I know they fit them in and when they carry the World Cup you see the Bud logo or whatever, but sports in the States really is fueled by marketing. Everyone complains about baseball games now taking an eternity, but it's not cause the games are slower, just that there are SO many long breaks between innings. Anyway, it's one reason I do appreciate footy. BUT this shouldn't disuade you.....

Why don't sports fans beat each other up in America?

Because they're too busy rushing the field and attacking umpires. But, in truth, I don't think that there has been a single Detroit Lions game I've been to where I haven't seen at least one brawl. Beer + big surly sports fans = FUN!

How can a local team move to an entirely new city and not lose it's fans?

They do, but they get new fans in their new city. It's kind of sad actually, but it's not too new. When the Brooklyn Dodgers moved to LA in 1957 it caused a TON of heartbreak. But, on the plus side, it leads to very funny dichotomies like the Utah Jazz (originally in New Orleans, which makes sense, but Utah is probably the most white, non-jazz state in the US).

I guess basketball is probably the most immediately appealing to a UK football/soccer fan, but a lot of my friends in the US have tried to convince me that baseball is in fact the sport of the gods. Where's the room for creativity/individuality? What am I missing?

Baseball, like football (UK), is one of those sports that has a really long and rich history and is pretty much interwoven with American culture. So, for me being sort of interested in footy, it's as much cuz I'm an Anglophile as anything. That said, baseball has really suffered some horrible league management and controversies (the fact that most players are probably juiced up on steroids being #1). If being at a ballpark and smelling the hotdogs and just the whole AESTHETICS of the game doesn't appeal, than I'm afraid the game itself isn't all that interesting. I'd guess it would be the same thing as someone saying, "oh football is just a bunch of grown men kicking a ball."

That said, I really think that the greatest athletes in the world can be found in basketball. Here's where you see the creativity/individuality really come thru. Plus, when played right, it's a true team sport. My beloved Pistons are on paper one of the worst teams in the league, but everyone knows their roles and they play this really smart, intense, over-achieving brand of basketball. I'm probably more emotionally invested in this team the past couple years than at any other point in my life. But I just love all the nuances and storylines of NBA basketball. It's a really beautiful sport.

Or what about (US) football? Is it the least subtle game in the world, or have I got it all wrong?

US football is probably the most popular sport in America... Like basketball, it's actually a suprisingly nuanced game with some absolutely amazing athletes (guys who are 6'6", 300 pounds who can run a 40 yard dash in like under 4 second which is just obscene). Plus, each team only plays once a week, so there's all this build-up and not a ton of commitment to watching the game. The rules can be kind of complicated and there's so many set plays and strategy involved, so I wouldn't call it unsubtle at all. I actually really like how UNSUBTLE the game is.... plus watching guys knock the shit out of eachother.

Any MLS fans out there, too?

It just isn't ever gonna take off in the U.S.

errr, baseball isn't!

Why do they stop all the time?

gotta make some money!

Why don't sports fans beat each other up in America?

They do! It's just not as well publicized/infamous.

How can a local team move to an entirely new city and not lose it's fans?

Good question, I suggest asking Art Modell.

I guess basketball is probably the most immediately appealing to a UK football/soccer fan, but a lot of my friends in the US have tried to convince me that baseball is in fact the sport of the gods. Where's the room for creativity/individuality? What am I missing?

There's tons of room for creativity/individuality, but it's a lot more subtle than a sport like (euro) football. Baseball's a very-team oriented sport, with little need of specialization (aside from pitching, of course). That said, it may seem like all baseball players are the same, but I assure you that once you get to know the game, the differences between a Barry Bonds and a Gabe Kapler are pretty evident.

Or what about (US) football? Is it the least subtle game in the world, or have I got it all wrong?

It's a metaphor for early 20th Century conventional warfare, so I guess it ain't that subtle... Serious, tho, there are a lot of subtleties to football that, like baseball, are difficult to understand unless you delve into it. Things like nickel defenses and slot routes and whatnot are pretty esoteric to the layperson. I used to really hate football until I started to get some of the strategy behind it, but you don't need that to have an appreciation for some of the amazing physical feats that happen in any given game.

Any MLS fans out there, too?

Yep, I haven't paid as much attention as I'd like, but MLS is pretty cool. It's not that hard to find scores/coverage for it if you're living in/near a team's market.

Based on your average post Dan, I'd say it was all systems normal! :p

People teach you, you learn from people.

I know.

It's just a cute thread title....see?

-games last hella long.
-the best players are the formerly colonized/subjugated/enslaved/marginalized.

Cuz we want results! The amount of action in a game is equated with how many times the teams score. Here's a little formula I worked out: score=excitement/action. Most Americans think soccer, er, football is boring and nothing ever happens simply because the scores are low. Never mind the non-stop end-to-end action and constant struggle to mount an attack. I think we equate struggle with failure, in addition to not appreciating good defense anywhere near as much as good offense.

Perhaps, perhaps not. It is however, associated with a nation-wide date-rape culture perpetuated by 18-22 year old male College lunkheads who do nothing but drink in the name of academia, and continue the passion into adulthood. That's why you don't watch football.

Also college basketball and college football are really two sports whose popularity might be greater at the amateur level (college) than in the professional leagues. Go figure.

Meh. And all footy fans are hooligans.

Also college basketball and college football are really two sports whose popularity might be greater at the amateur level (college) than in the professional leagues. Go figure.

There's something of a feeling that on the college level both sports are "purer," i.e., untainted by money, thanks to the strict control the governing body, the NCAA, has over college sports. You also see a lot more loyalty to teams, closer to footy in the UK. But, personally, I think that the pro versions are much, much, much better played... especially basketball, where the best players are coming out of college earlier and earlier, if they actually GO to college.

however, i actually enjoy basketball and hockey. even if the redwings are already sunk for the season. fast paced, entertaining and exciting.

i have always maintained that baseball is the best sport because you don't actually have to pay attention to it to enjoy it

(chris v is of course also korrekt, it would be like moving to Brighton and becoming a Man U fan right off (only as if Man U had won the Club Cup or whatever it's called 26 F'IN TIMES))

My uncle took me to a hockey game in Miami. The food was good there. At half-time some wacky characters came on and fired an oversized t-shirt at me from a cannon. I still have it, it says "Nice guys, tough hockey". And there was a fight. Classic.

You should talk to Ben tranquilhillsandgin :)

I would also suggest going to a baseball game so that you can buy a pointy foam finger and get hotdogs. Or is that ICE HOCKEY!? I think it is both! Do they both have wurlitzers?

Groovin' high.

I MUST KILL...METROSTARS

Baseball isn't and generally football really isn't either. Actually football in America is very low scoring but they have a complex points system that makes it seem very high scoring.

Why do they stop all the time?

Gatorade break.

Why don't sports fans beat each other up in America?

They do all the time! DO NOT GO TO A JETS GAME IF YOU ARE NOT A JETS FAN, THAT'S ALL I AM SAYING. I'm a gurl who wore slutty clothes to a Jets game, but still almost got the shit kicked out of me for making a comment about how lame I thought Testeverde was and how green was an ugly color. If you are male, you're liable to get shot for that.

How can a local team move to an entirely new city and not lose it's fans?

Actually sometimes they do.

In another post:

Perhaps, perhaps not. It is however, associated with a nation-wide date-rape culture perpetuated by 18-22 year old male College lunkheads who do nothing but drink in the name of academia, and continue the passion into adulthood.

This is possibly the stupidest thing I've read on ILX all day. And Limp Bizkit are responsible for date-rape too, yes? As proven by my Jets story, they are nicer to girls than they are to other boys.

But yeah, equating football appreciation with date-rape culture = DUD

Someone had issues in high school/college. Dud-da-da-dud-dud-dud.

If you folks excuse me, I must be going now. I'll be back in 4 months or so. Visit me whilst I operate Blue Streak at Cedar Point. The 14-16 hour work days will inevitably get a little boring. Some company and discussion about Anticon, Acid Mothers Temple, or Anaal Nathrakh or whatever would be nice.

:btw, Mr. Diamond is ON THE MARK. Though Cricket may be more complicated than American Football. I was in Great Britian for 11 days, watched it at least once each day, and still have no clue what was going on. Mad props to anyone who can figure it out:

NOOOOOOO! Don't do it! Sox fans will lure you in just so they can spread the misery around. "One of us! One of us!" they'll cry, pleading and conniving in the eternal quest to build their army of resentment. Soon their vicious propoganda will take over your whole life, and all hopes and dreams you once nurtured will be dismissed with a perennial "...well, wait till next year." 85 years later, and you will be nothing but death, dust, and shattered bones.

;^)

Actually cheering for any team is fine as long as it isn't the Yankees. Or whichever team currently employs Carl Everett (Rangers). You don't have to be a Mariner fan to root for I-CHI-RO but it helps. At least until the post season. What city are you moving to?

(Felicity OTM cept Baseball Tonight too obviously)

Dude, I'm gonna be there on May 12/13. How shall I recognize you?

Tracer, you failed to mention how much room there is for improvisation. It is like war: very much planned ahead of time, but when in 'combat' there's still a good deal of chaos.

You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side thats been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out.

When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay all out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the men have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game.

An is that isn't clear as say then I don't know what.....

If you folks excuse me, I must be going now. I'll be back in 4 months or so. Visit me whilst I operate Blue Streak at Cedar Point. The 14-16 hour work days will inevitably get a little boring. Some company and discussion about Anticon, Acid Mothers Temple, or Anaal Nathrakh or whatever would be nice.

I've been to Cedar Point! It's a total meat market! That milennium coaster thing scared the shit outta me.

*falls down dead of the shock*

http://www.grand-old-site.co.uk/images/henrikindex.gif

somehow i don't think this would go over too well abroad

But no - I was actually thinking of this:

http://www.funtrivia.com/img/mlb-indians.gif

I used to live in Nebraska, BTW.

When I was growing up, there was a high school in the Chicago suburbs called the "Rebels" and had a confederate flag as their logo. They've sinced changed it, of course.

The "mick with red hair and a huge forehead and /or jutting chin" can be seen in 19c caricatures of the Irish. Unfortunately, I really do have an uncle who looks like that.

Native Americans are pretty under-represented in American sports as players so it seems odd that they are so popular as mascots and nicknames.

Yeah, and it would seem that last season's introduction of the "spear" logo is a first step in softening up the fans for such a move.

http://media.theinsiders.com/Media/NFL/4_newhelmet.JPG

vs.

http://www.chgs.umn.edu/Histories__Narratives__Documen/Visualizing_Otherness_Set_1/Visualizing_Otherness_IV__Set_/washingtonredskinA.jpg

Oh my God, I want someone to do this right now (preferably in Harlem).

Jim Thorpe to thread!

(oh wait that was 100 yrs ago)

I'm sure some Florida State fans think it is quite humorous that the Skins are stealing their logo, considering Steve Spurrier being their coach.

College basketball has becoming the biggest gambling orgy for sports fans in the US. What is good about filling out brackets for the tournament is that often times someone who doesn't know crap about basketball actually does well by just guessing.

I can't see people becoming baseball fans if they didn't grow up playing the game (or at least softball). Outside the playoffs, I can't really watch an entire game, but I follow it via the net/paper. The sport is run by idiots, but hitting a baseball right on the money feels great and the nostalgia around that feeling is why I still care.

Red Stockings vs. Red Sox. How confusing!

It seems, according to the Chicago Tribune, that the singular of "White Sox" is "White Sox." They will quote Frank Thomas or someone saying "I'm happy to be a White Sox." Is it the same with the Boston Globe and other Boston-area papers?

The correct singular form of "Sox" is actually "Suxx"

So, basketball.... Ben Wallace of the Detroit Pistons won Defensive Player of the Year for the second straight year and JUST missed out on being the first player to ever twice lead the league in rebounds and blocks. Game 2 against the Orlando Magic is tonight. I expect us to come out and play a much better game than Game 1.

(I'm sure there will need to be a Nordicskillz translation soon.)

I guess it literally comes from an old type of bland, homestyle Yankee Puritan cuisine, like chowders, cornbreads, Indian Native American pudding, clambakes, clam, cod, haddock, etc. Kind of sensible fare cooked by hard-working Protestants by honest women named Goodwife "Goody Williams and Hannah.

There are countless examples of Boston's association with beans. There is or was a big hockey tournament among Massachusetts-area colleges every winter called the "Beanpot." And there is the famous little Bossidy poem about Boston's micro-snobbery:

'Boston'

And this is good old Boston
The home of the bean and the cod,
Where the Lowells talk to the Cabots,
And the Cabots talk only to God

-- John Collins Bossidy (1910) (addressing Holy Cross Alumni Dinner in Boston)

This is the exact reason that baseball will be a minor sport in about ten or fifteen years. The kids that grew up watching Jordan/NBA and the NFL during the past ten or fifteen years are going to have that same kind of nostalgia and the footage to prove it to their children.

Basketball and football is so much better in highlights than baseball because there is much more of a unbelivable athleticism.

Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken were about as good a baseball players as you can get, but you couldn't string together a good highlight reel to compare to ANY big time basketball or football star (except maybe linemen or people that do not get screen time anyway). There is some "wow" factor in someone like Bonds or Sosa or maybe even Randy Johnson throwing a pitch at 100 mph, but it isn't quite the same as a move by Tracy McGrady or hit by Brian Urlacher might make every game.

Mind you, Harry Carey and a six pack could make most people a baseball fan for a day. The man was an entertainer.

It gets more confusing, and less. The first Red Stockings in Cincy moved to Boston to make more money -- but they didn't become the Red Sox, they became the Beaneaters, who were later the Braves, and who eventually moved to Atlanta. Boston's AL team -- the Pilgrims, aka the Puritans, the Somersets -- used the "Red Stockings" name briefly (either as homage to the now-Beaneaters, or to mock them by stealing their name), but sportswriters and fans abbreviated it to "Red Sox," and it's stayed the same since.

The modern-day Cincinnati Reds were named for the original ones, the guys who are now the Braves.

You might be right, but they said the same thing thirty years ago, and fifty. Ballpark attendance plummetted after the big strike, and it hasn't ever really recovered -- but MLB and the sportsmags go over the various theories for why that is, and how it can be fixed, every year, and there doesn't seem to be any real correlation between prevalence of Little League baseball and popularity of Major League baseball.

http://www.wrigleyvillesport.com/istar.asp?a=5&id=5933%21Ame&index=0

http://www.wrigleyvillesport.com/istar.asp?a=5&id=h2543%21Ame&index=0

It's way more fun than rooting for laundry.

The Cubs were the original "White Stockings".

There is a Simpson's episode where the Springfield Isotopes are going to move to Albuquerque, I didn't realize there actually was such a team. That is funny.

Wait, weren't the Reds known in the fifties as the Redlegs, not the Red Stockings?

In the 50s, they were the Redlegs, in the 19th century (maybe early 20th), the Red Stockings. Reds otherwise, unless maybe they had some wacky extra nicknames I'm not remembering.

Here in Denver the Rapids draw about 22,000 per game and the team makes a profit, but the league as a whole has wouldn't be possible without the deep pockets of Philip Anschutz and a few others. It seems the league is teetering on the edge of long term viability and immigration probably will help bring more fans.

Who knows, wan't Beckham hinting at coming to the States recently and saving soccer in America? I'm not sure his ego could take that, its not like Pele saved the NASL.

I'd really love to see the Rapids build their own stadium. 22,000 people in a stadium built for 78,000 does do much for the atmosphere.

Oh hey, yeah, you should.

First, a Metrostars update for Sarah. Last season ended in total, Hindenbergoise collapse, as the team, requiring one point to make the playoffs which include 80% of the league, lost a few games in a row, including a preposterous collapse at DC, who were even worse, in which star forward Clint Mathis-- on Gazza's career trajectory, and not the good part-- was sent off for an imaginary stomp on a DC player's back. Speculation that the team threw its games down the stretch to get the fool head coach fired was rampant. In any case, they hired a new guy, thought to be in line for the US job when the squat, lisping Bruce Arena leaves, from Chicago. He has been merciless, getting rid of a dozen players in the off-season, and the team has drawn its first two matches, playing well but not looking much like scoring.

MLS in general, for Nordicskillz:

The quality of play is probably 2nd division in general, but a few players are of clear quality. The core of the pretty good US team in Korea last year came straight out of MLS, and there are probably 20-30 players who are genuinely pleasurable to watch. Then there are scores of really garbage players who can run all day and destroy the flow of play with both deliberately violent tackles and the most blundering first touches and errant passes. But if you can watch, as I can, a mostly meaningless match, not particularly well-played, in pleasant, sunny weather, then you'll enjoy yourself. Tickets are cheap, and as I said, there are some very good young players in the league right now.

The match-going experience is sadly lackluster, though. You're moving to California, right? If you're in southern California, you're in luck, as the Galaxy are building a lovely new stadium next to the state university in Dominguez Hills, and they have a good team with relatively passionate fans. The atmosphere is far, far worse at the huge NFL stadiums several teams rent. 15,000 to 25,000 fans would sound great in a small, enclosed new stadium modelled on, say, Bolton's, but these huge concrete bowls are tomblike, and the games are depressing unless you get drunk enough not to notice the acres of empty seats and how they absorb any small noise generated by the scattered clusters of well-meaning spectators.

Details of the league? Ten teams, supposedly expanding by two teams every two years for the rest of the decade. Eastern and western groups of five teams each. Players signed by a central league office, preventing transfers between teams except as part-exchange deals (it's designed, sadly with success, to prevent wage increases associated with contract expirations and resultant free agency). Four teams from each group make a two month-long playoff, home-and-away for the first round, and single-game knock-out for the semifinal and final. The top few teams play in CONCACAF's championship tournament, which isn't so bad-- there are some quality Mexican sides.

There's a professional second division, with no promotion (though Rochester, who have dominated for years, are in line for an MLS franchise), and two lower national leagues which are semi-pro and largely crap. College soccer is garbage, restricted to a developmental role at best, though there is a trend for university teams to join one of the national lower divisions. Then there is a national cup tournament, which is really good, actually, with some of the most fun minnow/giant ties shown nationally to a tiny audience on the Fox Sports World channel. (Fox Sports World: absolutely essential to any fan of the sport in the US. Arm of Sky TV, regrettably, but non-stop football. Look at www.soccertv.com for the schedule.)

If you play, the news is much brighter, as every city of any size has pretty good pick-up soccer if you look for it, and most have good leagues for grown-ups.

I have other things to say about other sports but I'll save that for later.

Terrastock 5 announced -- Boston!

Even IL* has the answer.

Baseball is a true pleasure but it very rarely provides the addictive, gnawing anxiety one gets from following a soccer team. You may have to watch hundreds of baseball games before you appreciate the sport. American kids (nerdy boys, particularly) obsess over baseball statistics as a kind of crutch for the attention span, and some saddoes never get over it, but there is a lot to mull over and most importantly TALK about with people as a baseball game is being played. It also has a history going well back into the 19th century, giving it continuity and soulfulness in a revoltingly corporate sports marketplace, and a huge quantity of lore that never gets tiresome but can be satirized in appealing ways.

Basketball: college hoops is mostly developmental, but the huge number of teams and passionate fans keeps it watchable. Pro basketball is really dull, and NBA players haven't learned a THING from the debacle at the world championship last yeat, in which team defense and set plays kicked the shit out of the assortment of gargantuan, egotistical assholes that deign to represent the US in basketball.

Football: college variety is attractive for similar reasons to college basketball (though the championship tournament is totally byzantine), but pro football is hands down the true national sport. Huge stadiums, lots of money, and actually a sort of fun way to squander Sundays when the weather sucks. HORRIFYINGLY slow, though-- and the loudmouth national sports talk personalities try to depict soccer, with non-stop play and a two-hour time window, as being boring. Football games go three, four hours, with every play re-examined at least twice, and commercial interruptions every ten minutes or so. Give seven points instead of one for a soccer goal, cut NFL games to 2 hours, and the scorelines would be indistinguishable.

(Ice) hockey: I'm not a fan, and can't speak to it. It had a huge boom when ABC threw a lot of money at it, but the television ratings are no better than those of soccer, for god's sake, and there's a looming day of reckoning when the books have to be balanced, so don't get too emotionally involved with any one team.

This is a major part of the appeal for me, and my interest in baseball definitely spiked after taking a class called "Baseball and Myth." I wish I still had the notes from that, that was far and away the most fun I had in any class, and all the guys who'd usually sit at the back of the room dozing in any other English class were practically shouting while talking about The Natural and W.P. Kinsella.

Anyway- I think I'm still the only Yankees fan on this board! ;-) I'm going to watch them play the M's out here on my birthday, but sadly I think Derek Jeter will still be on the injured list.

So I'm going to my second Athletics-Yankees game in the Bronx the weekend after next. How strange that the high-water mark of my love affair with the Reds was the same world series that sent my eventual gf, then aged nine, into a tailspin of drink and drugs that would have shocked Drew Barrymore, sending her to the convent from which I would someday rescue her. How strange indeed.

Please do not dismiss my intentions of building an army of clone Jeters!

It's Staurday morning and there's no coffee and I need to shave before it looks like I'm consciously trying to cultivate a soul patch.

BUT

the screaming and the songs and the uniforms. the parents going mental. What's it all about?

$15 would get you one of these:
http://tubes.ominix.com/art/a/rec/soccer-ball.png

and some of these for goalposts:

http://www.mountainshadowfarm.com/images/sweaters.jpg

et voila!

Baseball is second, but my attachment is mostly historical - I don't have to sit through four-hour meaningless games when I'm watching a Ted Williams highlight reel. No sport comes close to baseball in the aesthetics/experience dept of seeing a game live.

Have him check out the website www.foxsportsworld.com

Do you know if he plays himself ? I play on a team in the city and we'll be starting up in February and have a few open spots this year."

I can't afford cable yet, sadly.

Do you know if he plays himself ? I play on a team in the city and we'll be starting up in February and have a few open spots this year."

I am terrible, and also somewhat self-conscious about avoiding becoming the worst sort of English expat. So, probably not.

Love, someone who likes your daughter

I have no idea if they're live, though.

http://www.birthplaceofhockey.com/images/pichockeyists/women/edmonton-swastikas-3.jpg
http://www.birthplaceofhockey.com/images/pichockeyists/swastikas/swas-darkoutfits1910.jpg

No no no, ICE HOCKEY is!!!!!!!!!!

Setanta Sport will offer Euro 2004 via pay-per-view and closed-circuit TV in the US. The residential rate is $179 for all matches. Individual first-round matches will cost $19.95 and each match from the quarterfinal through the final will cost $24.95.

FYI - some FA Cup matches, including the final, are shown live on Fox Sports World and replayed in the days following. FSW also usually shows one UEFA Cup match per matchday, but this week they've got nothing. Huh.

The best way to go about it is either to go to a soccer-friendly bar and pay the exorbitant cover charge a la carte, or to find some agreeable folks with whom to split the cost of the whole enchilada and throw open your doors at 4am for a few weeks. (Thinking you'll just pick a few select matches to order on paperview is a surefire way to cost yourself the equivalent of airfare to Portugal-- the temptation to punch in a match here and match there is irresistable.)