The ilx admin situation

Thanks.

http://www.ciudadfutura.com/poprock/cheaptrickdream.jpg

(In all seriousness is anyone going to answer Graham? Yes saying someone can eat a dick is silly...)

If going public then we need to know what bits of the board are your private parts Graham.

As far as any of you are concerned all of it is Pete.

*titter*

The additional features on the other hand would probably be relatively easy to claim some kind of ownership over. Though I would imagine copyright of code is a gnarly area (possibly based on who the code was made for, where it is now based and Mr Noodles dick eating capacity).

help the thickies

Pete: The part that duplicates the UI of Greenspun is only a tiny and insignificant part. By which I mean the "extra features" constitute 90% of the code.

Rick: No, the GPL is a horrible thing that most people that support it don't understand. BSD-like seems more likely. I don't even have a copy of Alan's commented version though.

Haha! Like if someone explains how to use the bloody thing. Do you put a slash after the text that's already there, or replace it, or what?

And to think you could've just *told* me!

B) Though a little shaky, I think that Graham's code is Graham's code. I'm assuming that he never saw the Mr. Greenspun's code.

C) I don't like the way this thread started treating him like Calum/Spoonered.

By which I mean the "extra features" constitute 90% of the code.

It's surely not about percentages of code. Graham I thought you gave that code freely to the ILX community? Now you want it back? I don't think anyone would have consented to you being in charge if they knew that was the arrangement. Your being denied admin access to Andrew's server doesn't change that. If you regret coding stuff in the light of this situation, well sorry but life's full of regrets.

Going public, IlXor is going to be floated on the Nasdaq. This was not going to be announced until the Freaky Trigger relaunch (6 August 2003) - and then there was going to be a share option - however now the news has been leaked I suppose we can accept postal applications for shares (which will be issued on a proportional basis at an initial float price of $3.50 per share). The closing date for share applications is the 1st September.

I really ahve no issue using search! It's a little slow but that's it! It seems to work same as alway!

Oh and until Graham releases the code, anything he has written himself is legally his. Even the stuff that duplicates the functionality of the Greenspun things. About the only thing that might be is the detail of the appearance of the UI itself.

What Andrew said re N.'s suggestion.

Graham's access to Andrew's server was revoked after the tantrum he threw over Alan's hard work as technical back-up after Graham handed over the code to Ilxor.

Graham is of course entitled to a copy of everything he contributed to up to that point. If he chooses to take it away and work on it further and turn it into the greatest message board programme ever, for public access or whatever, then I'm sure everyone here wishes him well. I don't believe Ilxor has a plan to make anything public that Graham wants kept non-public. I think the word "fork" was invoked by someone: is someone currently reading who can explain this concept?

The discussion about revoking Graham's access took place on AIM as much as anywhere: that bit is long-lost, I'm afraid. Some of it was probably on the ilx mod discussions, or one of their ad hoc predecessors.

NB my Scrabble game will be available freely to everyone by the way but at the moment it says LINE FIVE SYNTAX ERROR and bangs on about uninitialized variables chiz.

In the end, your indifference and open contempt for the many many hours I spent attempting to be your friend wore me down.

Well, the thing is, I can't work on my own code until I know whether I'm going to be basing it on a copy of Alan's commented version or what I have.

Similarly, there's a lot of restructuring work I need to do and afterwards it wouldn't be possible to install that version here without overwriting all of your changes. DYS?

It seems you all want to duplicate work out of pettiness (also if you hadn't ousted me the search explanation and/or new search thing and minna's problem would be solved by now, but that's a whole other issue).

HOWEVER, I do think we should come to some arrangement by which Graham can have a copy of the code currently running on the server (w/o giving him actual access to the server), which he can than play with to his hearts content. If he does release it under the BSD license, the ilXor techies can incorporate whatever changes he has made that they deem appropriate. This will hopefully mean that we all get the code we want, and everyone will be happy. Yes?

That said, I understand the server issue, have no complaints, and appreciate the many hours of hard work people have contributed to making this board. This is just a suggestion.

Anyway why don't you stop casting this situation as another of your crappy little emotional powerplays and actually come across with honest NON-BLACKMAILING suggestions?

Can I sort of untangle mine and Graham's argument w.one another from the bigger issue, also? I'm mad busy at the moment so really don't have time or emotional energy to think abt Mod stuff clearly, and I don't want my feelings to get in the way of a solution. I'm going to steer clear of posting for a bit.

Where's Martin?

I noticed about an hour ago someone doing a search for "search" (via graham's temporary search form??) and that seemed to really slow down the newanswers cache regeneration (took 4 mins +)

The thing is, I have been so fucking angry with this place and never did anything destructive then. I worked my arse off to make sure problems were fixed as soon as possible and uptime was the best it could be. Why don't you just delete all 8000 or whatever it is of my messages and have done with it? *

(* I probably have to make clear to whoever's in charge that that's facetious, don't I?)

Suggestion coming in a minute. I needed to find out where I stand first.

Do you see how they made people feel though, Graham? Like you were warning people that you could throw your toys out of the pram whenever you felt like it. Like ILE's survival relied on not upsetting you? No, you never did anything permanently destructive, but that shouldn't have even been an option one felt you could follow. It did start to feel (with the demands for gratitude and presents) that you were somehow threatening people in a "Graham giveth and Graham taketh away" way. And that wasn't something people were prepared to put up with.

And what the hell is going in with the search engine now?

(Sorry, I'm going to have to take my time over my solution as I know it's going to be picked apart later)

I mean it's a pity that it actually refers to a person - if not it woul be truly Hanleyesque.

Graham you probably need to speak directly to Andrew about the status of the Search Engine as of this second. I doubt he will be reading ILE for a good few hours yet.

Has it occurred to you that we mightn't want your search solution? That part of this was that you were using your power over ILX in a way that's as unhealthy for you as for us?

I don't know Andrew, I'd just rather have the search problem solved than switched off indefinitely. As far as I'm concerned, the current blase attitude to fixing the backend (and not giving explanations on the page when things are broken) is far more destructive to the boards than anything I did.

The most important instruction Alan ignored was to keep a log of what changes were made so that other people, not just me, would know what's going on. He didn't. I never resigned and he treated it like I had,

radiohead can just...eat a dick. I thought it was obvious it was a reference to that.

HOORAY WE'VE PASSED THE TURING TEST oh shit, the cat's out of the bag

As to past grievances, we're not going to get anywhere unless we drop them. The only pertinent facts are these: 1)you are not trusted by most of ilx to have control over the database 2) you want access to the code. I don't see that there's any real working out of a solution to be done. It's not that complex. We give you a copy of the code, you do what you like with it, everything gets BSDed, we all benefit. Sure, it means that there may be differences between the Graham version and the ilx version but I don't see this is harmful in any real sense.

The search has been reinstated, with a notice advising refrain when using the Advanced Search. There are safeguards in place to prevent the search being used under massive load, regardless.

I was wrong to take the whole thing down in the first place. Graham is quite right - the Keyword search is the only real motherfucker of the lot. I would have reinstated it earlier, but I've been intensely busy with my personal life over the past few days. I once again apologise for any incovenience.

The problem is Rick that that forces me to say you lot can go fuck yourselves and not worry about the ilx fork (or makes you lot do lots of work if you want to take advantage of any improvements I make).

I don't think there's any need for an ilx fork. ilx has always just been one installation of software I wrote. Can't we keep it that way? Sure, you still need maintainers, but you seem to be making extra work purely so you can be rid of me for got knows what reason. You basically have two options:
1) We all work together on one codebase that a version of is installed here.
2) You remove all traces of my work, do not clone any of my ideas, and we all feel miserable.

Er, that's fine by me.

Of course, I'd be more than happy to accept any patches that you'd care to donate. If nothing else, you have proved yourself to be a highly competent coder, and I value your technical contributions greatly.

(Andrew, I did get your message, I just pressed the wrong button to reply and it disappeared somewhere)

1. My feeling is that there should be permanent acknowledgement somewhere here that this board is all based on Graham's coding. Even when we fall out, we should never forget this.

2. Andrew is entirely entitled to let who he wants on his server, so there is nothing to discuss there.

3. I hope Alan will volunteer to allow copies of the scripts including his added comments and changes to go to Graham, but obviously that is his choice.

4. I hope Graham will volunteer enhancements and the like - he did a great job putting all this together, so I don't doubt they would be very much worth having. I am a third of the team, at the moment, and I know bugger all as yet. I have made one minuscule change, and have logged this with the other coders.

5. As for incorporating any such changes, again Andrew is entitled to decide what goes on his server. If he has any fears or whatever (as I say, I don't plan to discuss how reasonable such doubts may or may not be) I guess we could set up some peer review scheme of some sort.

Tom's right about the ownership thing of course, which puts me in the enviable position of being able to take a moral position on something where no action is feasible. Everyone's a winner!

I am going to assume this talk of ILX closing down is a joke but just to comment on this.

It is difficult to just leave. Can't think of any regulars (apart from that heybuddy fella on ILM) who have completely left but if you can't leave that's yr problem. Other people should enjoy ILX but of course its all down to the server situation etc but as long as that's OK then it should carry on.

I also think that most of the current regulars won't be posting in five years time (providing the server makes or someone doesn't blow this place up).

I remember Ned's last night stand attempting to download all the archive of that (admittedly) poor system before Ricardo's worms corrupted it. He darn near almost corrupted his entire library's server. That was the long dark night of his soul, which explains why he is always so jolly these days. You've lost a whole raft of friends, you're valiently trying to save their work whilst some self destructive pshcyo is getting rid of - and the thanks you get are snippy e-mails and computer problems which could not only lose your job but get you sent to prison. After then you'd say "Heavens" to any problems.

er, what is going on?

LB might have been right to ban him, but it was too late - no-one had the code to unpick it and he still had a backdoor.

Is her version of the board still out there?

(x-post - christ has he really been lurking for five years for THAT!)

Anyway - you are not welcome round here - and we can ban your IP.

ban julio for having rubbish music taste.

I'm going to get it RIGHT NOW! (It's a pity I'll have to go, though, it really is like Dallas. I can't wait for the next episode.)

The basic story goes that there was a board (all threads were boards there) which was an introduce yourself thread. Later, when things went tits up, R wrote some sort of webcrawling program that gave him any references to any of that personal stuff and basically allowed him (back then - these things are more sophisticated now I guess) the ability to hack into any web based e-mail accounts. He exercised this power on at least three occasions we know of - to near disasterous effect in one case (loss of job, threatened criminal proceedures re password to secure Maine Employment Department records).

it wasnt a bear i dont know what it was it was brown though

Note the way I am studiously ignore his posts. He doesn't even know me for chrissake.

Anyway - has anyone banned him yet?

Yes Nick, I know I am an oaf. Tom and Ned have been e-mailing me for the last hour telling me this. I apologise to them and the whole of ILx if I have brought upon us much darkness.

and ally still has not quoted the lonely lady.

this thread sucks.

millar ... you promised .... not .... to mention the pain ... i want to be normal and live a normal life like everyone else.

Could some people please get a life? And go eat a bag of dicks.

a) Full schemas of the database, including indexes
b) A copy of the contents of the daylight table
c) With Alan's permission, a copy of his commented version of the source

Some you are good souls, praise be and sorry, but too many are going straight to hell.

i still hate you all.

i still hate you all and no I don't care if Sponn or Graham are the dungeon masters!

what was the name of the d & d movie that tom hanks was in???

As to knowing when to stop being important. Yes, yes, it is. But as you point out, ILX is no-one's to stop.

Or the first ILX death.

And could someone tell me more about this long lost ILX precursor? Even if only in email? I thought the ILX precursor was alt.music.alternative.

Ou Est Alan has said OK so you'll get your stuff soon I hope.

still, i like how this all reminds me of my university days as a help guy in the computer labs, where sysamdinnin' was equated with eating a bag of dicks with more frequency that anyone here could possibly imagine.

The fact that I was too dense to realize this in the first place, dud or dud?

i leave you guys alone for five minutes and this is what happens

learn another note

A prophet is not without honor save in his own country

what's happened

http://holamun2.com/images/freejoles/big-things-poopin.gif

Finnegan's Wake contains nothing as sublime as 'Mr Noodles can eat a dick' - ergo ILX > literature.

-- Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 12:15 (4 years ago)

SOME PEOPLE NEVER LEARN

good revive, hilarious thread

(This doesn't apply to ILX because it's no longer anyone's to stop).

SKYNET

well this popping back up to the top wasn't predictable in any way whatsoever, was it.

I'm only surprised it hadn't already been revived. FOR THE LULZ.

blame fake tuomas

Crikey Pete, how long is your pubic hair?

-- RickyT (RickyT), Thursday, 24 July 2003 13:21 (4 years ago) Link

DONT ANSWER HIM PETE!

-- Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 24 July 2003 13:22

ok this

crikey

ILX code released under GPL???

Don't go there, heave, seriously. Old ilx-code shenanigans is a world of hassle better avoided.

at least noodles isn't an admin anymore

we can all agree on something

I understand most of the individual words on this thread, but at some more, or less, fundamental level I don't think I understand the thread. Very strange.
-- the pinefox, Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:47 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Link