if you don't know immediately, is it just not there?

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so like if you aren't sure if someone likes you, if you aren't sure if there's a connection, are the chances that there isn't one? are you supposed to figure these things out right away?

i expect definitive answers, none of this namby-pamby experience-sharing.

thank you.

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

yes.

― hstencil, Saturday, 25 October 2003 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

damn.

THIS THREAD LOCKED BY ADMINISTRATOR

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry bro.

― hstencil, Saturday, 25 October 2003 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

you need a fancier scarf

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 25 October 2003 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I feel your pain and confusion amt.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 25 October 2003 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Julio don't be so namby-pamby!

― hstencil, Saturday, 25 October 2003 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I listen to lots of shronk, improvisation and serialism but I'm just a pussy really.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 25 October 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

no it dont necessarily mean jack shit iffa you dont know immediately sometimes you gotta be brave and just axe

― hellbaby (hellbaby), Saturday, 25 October 2003 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Amateurist, haven't there been ppl YOU've changed yr mind abt - y'know - "oh god I find this person irritating oh hold on I really fancy them now" etc?

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Saturday, 25 October 2003 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

i know i'm liked i just don't know if i'm *liked*.

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

that didn't answer your question.

i'm not sure.

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

WHERE IS MY FAIRY TALE?

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I suppose it also depends on how you're defining 'immediately' here (within the first 10 minutes?)

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Saturday, 25 October 2003 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

so like if you aren't sure if someone likes you, if you aren't sure if there's a connection, are the chances that there isn't one? are you supposed to figure these things out right away?

i expect definitive answers, none of this namby-pamby experience-sharing.

I know this won't sound definitive, but I can't help that: it depends on how good you are at knowing when someone's interested in you! I mean, if it's someone who knows you're interested, and you aren't sure if they are -- yeah, it's probably because they aren't. If it's someone you're interested in, and in the past you've been good at reading people, but this time you're just not sure ... yeah, they probably aren't.

Nearly everyone's had one of those "what, you were interested in me back then?" moments, haven't they? I think we had a thread either about that or that veered into it.

So ask. If it isn't your boss, your mom, your co-worker, your best friend, or some immediate tangent from that circle, there's not much harm can come from asking.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 25 October 2003 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, it's quite possible that you're picking up on the other person's indifferent vibes. however, this kind of neurotic guessing game often ties into self-esteem and confidence and all of that other crap. if it's someone that i actually like and respect (as opposed to someone for mindless smooching in bar bathrooms), then he basically has to skywrite or something before i believe it.

― lauren (laurenp), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

one problem is that i can't actually bring myself to believe for more than fleeting moments that anyone would actually be interested in me.

another problem is that no one is ever actually interested in me.

(x-post)

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

wait... no harm from asking?

i'm friends with this person, i enjoy her company enormously, i'm in a strange city without many people to hang out with.... the stakes seem rather higher than this.

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry for making this yet another monologue.

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

well it either bothers you enough to want to take the risk of weirding-up the relationship or it doesn't. Since you started a thread on it, I'm guessing it does.

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

no, you've misjudged me. i'll probably go on in ignorance for several years.

(not being sarcastic.)

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

there is some harm in asking, just as there is some harm in remaining quiet about it. but it seems that for most people, the looming spectre of humiliation outweighs the possibility of missing out on romance.

― lauren (laurenp), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

i wish i was a valentino-esque character who could simply go in for a smooch and make it all work out.

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

It depends on how you ask, and I just checked the Danzameter and it says I'm two generaliztions away from a Tony-Danza-storming-the-radio-station-to-beat-the-crap-out-of-Wallace-Shawn situation, but most people don't seem bothered by people being interested in them as long as they're cool with that interested not being reciprocrated[*]. [**]

[*] Most of the definite exceptions to this are the types of situations where you wouldn't have to tell her you're interested.

[**] I also tend to look at "harm" in terms of "how's this gonna affect me two years from now?" Any misstep in almost any social situation can result in a hostile night, a crappy weekend, or an awkward month, but two years later, it usually only matters if you let it.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

"with that interest not being reciprocrated," not "with that interested," etc.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:09 (twenty-two years ago)

ok speaking of this...

what i really mean to ask on this thread...

are there little physical gestures that i should be picking up (or not picking up) on? if she "likes" me, should i have already noticed a quiet brush of the hand or her walking one inch closer than is customary? etc.

i'm famously oblivious to such things. i don't notice when people are flirting with me, and i think people are flirting with me when they're not.

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

in that case, send flowers, the invitation in the card being to dinner.
her reaction will tell you if the feeling is mutual.

― Orbit (Orbit), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Or to put it another way and be way too glib in the process: I'll bet we've had a number of "the one that got away; what's your biggest regret/missed opportunity" threads. I doubt we've had many, if any, "thank God, that time I avoided embarrassment by the skin of my teeth!" threads.

xpost; I haven't noticed any useful clues for that, not stuff that's reasonably universal. There probably are some, I just don't know em.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

i always avoid embarrassment by never saying anything ever. the unusual side effect is celibacy.

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

How old are you, 24?

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

now, regarding this valentino-going-in-for-the-kill business. at the risk of sounding like a lunatic i think it's better to try to kiss someone (respectfully!) or do something likewise affectionate rather than come out with the "so, i really like you" speech. i have never had success with the latter (turns things too intellectual), but gotten good results from the former.

― lauren (laurenp), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

my fantasy is that we'll be laughing at some joke and i'll be all "ha ha ha ha i'm totally in love with you ha ha ha ha ha"

but yeah i think like touching her hand or something would be better. but her pulling hers away--that's an image that makes me want to crawl into the woodwork.

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

a little bit older than that nick.

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

no, her slapping you is an image that should make you want to crawl into the woodwork!

― lauren (laurenp), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

see, always try to see the funny side of things!

― lauren (laurenp), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

once when i liked a girl but didn't have the nerve to say it she just up and kissed me. what can't THAT happen more often?

(sorry again for being completely self-involved. i'm merely filling my yearly ILX self-involvement quota.)

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, touching her (in a non-sexual spot obv) seems like a good way to gauge her feelings for you. Go for a drink or three---have enough to where you could blame a hand or *gasp* leg touch on the alcohol but not enough to make you completely sloppy.

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I think one of the most unfair disadvantages of a fear of rejection is that it often leads to rejection, either directly (people are attracted to confidence; the people who are attracted to a lack of it are generally ... not good catches, to be kind) or indirectly (you finally screw up your courage, squinch your eyes shut, and plant a kiss on the lamp, searing off a layer of skin on your lips; while you're getting a lip transplant she meets someone else).

I don't have a good remedy for it, but I do encourage you to do what you can to get around it.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

touching her hand isnt too scary is it? if shes not into it and she is a nice person ... and i guess she must be nice if you like her... then she will just gently remove her hand or start talking about something else and then you will know! she might really like you too but not wanna blow yr frienship by starting stuff in case its not reciprocated. apparently mirroring ie copying yr body gestures is a sure fire sign of attraction.

― hellbaby (hellbaby), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

hm that's a good point tep.

hm the mirroring thing is interesting, please elaborate.

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

ok so say you are sitting down somewhere together and you cross yr legs and put yr hand under yr chin (for example) and then she does those things too then thats mirroring .

― hellbaby (hellbaby), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

hahaha that's great, that explains half of *my* behavior tonight, now i have to pay closer attention to hers.

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Make sure she is neither a mime nor a synchronized swimmer!

Actually, I think hellbaby's onto something.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

tep totally otm about fear of rejection -> rejection.

― lauren (laurenp), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

lauren totally otm. you should consider that the extent to which this person is already or is going to be interested in you is correlated to the way you act about their interest in you. you have some agency. the vast majority of people (not all; it depends on the type) are going to be more likely to be interested in you the more confident (not arrogant, necessarily, or even aggressive) you are about your likability to them (not the same as the likelihood that they will like you). so if you're going to do something, don't be half-assed about it, but you also can't be heedlessly presumptuous. of course, some of your likability vis-a-vis a given person (or vis-a-vis most people) is physical and can't change much on your end and is unlikely to be changed on theirs. that should be relevant, but ignored to the extent to which it is not determinative. [my advice on any of this stuff, of course, should come with like the great salt lake]

once when i liked a girl but didn't have the nerve to say it she just up and kissed me

last girl that did that to me i ended up having to pretty much carry home (and she isn't much smaller than me) where she threw up all over my bathroom. not sure it's worth it. (but she knew i liked her anyway, so irrelevant but i wanted to tell the story)

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

(also, do as i say not as i do)

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah but thats also that thing about how we actually make our own reality if you think about rejection thats what may happen
iffa you think about acceptance and hot sex then thats what may happen...

― hellbaby (hellbaby), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

i find that her company gives me a certain kind of confidence, which is one reason why i like her. for one thing i don't feel the need to talk as much as i usually do around her. she's really intellectually confident and likes to talk about what she's interested in and i like to listen.

so sometimes i think if you really like someone they give you the confidence to admit it one way or another.

i know that is total bullshit though.

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

perhaps im being presumptous maybe acceptance and hot sex isnt what yr wanting with yr friend

― hellbaby (hellbaby), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

hot sex and hot toddies, mmm.

― lauren (laurenp), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

right now i'd just like to walk arm in arm down the champs elysees.

(ok, don't everyone throw up at once.)

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

oh thats so sweet! hey i hope it all works out for you just how youd like it too.

― hellbaby (hellbaby), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

amst. needs a dream sequence! (or is it more before sunrise than am. in paris?)

i know that is total bullshit though

no, it's not. but the confidence to admit liking someone (or, more likely, 'really wanting to be liked by someone') is not necessarily the same as the confidence required to do what you want to do about it.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:41 (twenty-two years ago)

wow i've never sought romantic advice from ile before and it's turned out nicely.

i'll probably read this thread tomorrow and wince, however.

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

one thing. in her company i'm self-effacing and somewhat nervous in disposition. she is self-effacing but not nervous. is nervousness a necessary component of liking someone?

― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 25 October 2003 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

no.

― Orbit (Orbit), Saturday, 25 October 2003 22:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Only for some people, and even then not all the time.

― Tep (ktepi), Sunday, 26 October 2003 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

At a carefully chosen moment during ordinary conversation, maintain eye contact longer than is usually acceptable. See what she does. You'll know more than you do now. And so will she.

― Marcel Post (Marcel Post), Sunday, 26 October 2003 02:44 (twenty-two years ago)

i like this idea, and i can pass it off as a staring contest if it doesn't work out.

― amateurist (amateurist), Sunday, 26 October 2003 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

48 hours has never seemed such a looooooong time

― amateurist (amateurist), Sunday, 26 October 2003 23:51 (twenty-two years ago)

[bitter little post,
"love's ephemerality,"
deleted. --admin.]

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Sunday, 26 October 2003 23:56 (twenty-two years ago)

i wouldn't curse this little crush with that terrible word.

― amateurist (amateurist), Sunday, 26 October 2003 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

48 hours refers not to the time since i began posting but the time until i see her again.

― amateurist (amateurist), Sunday, 26 October 2003 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

good on yr boyo
love's not a noun but a verb.
"crush": God's fav'rite word!

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 27 October 2003 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

look at her then look away then look at her

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 27 October 2003 00:04 (twenty-two years ago)

i would take your advice but then i remember the seething malevolence that is your customary profile on this board.

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2003 00:05 (twenty-two years ago)

wow i'm prickly today. it's just that you've been so impossibly and opportunistically rude to me in the past that you can't expect me to actually listen to you at all.

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2003 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

oops.

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2003 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

ok so anyway the looking away thing... i do this all the time! of course! isn't that the best part of being with somebody? that you look away and when you look back they're still there?!

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2003 00:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i actually like that i do sort of look around a room and out the window (c'mon it's paris how am i not supposed to look out the window?) and so on when she's talking to me without realizing i'm doing it and then i face her and she's still talking and leaning toward me and smiling and it's like i did nothing wrong (i hope i did nothing wrong).

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2003 00:14 (twenty-two years ago)

this is a nice thread, full of good advice. i have nothing to add, but i wish you well amateurist. please post what happens.

― gaz (gaz), Monday, 27 October 2003 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

NEVER

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2003 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

it's like how a baby freaks out when his mother disappears behind a cloth and then calms again when she removes the cloth. the idea that when you don't see something it's not there. which babies soon unlearn. i think i'm still unlearning it.

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2003 00:17 (twenty-two years ago)

see also Overzeal

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2003 00:19 (twenty-two years ago)

just bust out the acoustic guitar and wow her with your rendition of no woman no cry

― jonas lefrel (jonas lefrel), Monday, 27 October 2003 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

my fantasy is that we'll be laughing at some joke and i'll be all "ha ha ha ha i'm totally in love with you ha ha ha ha ha"

That's so awesome. I mean, even if she didn't return the feeling, she'd still have to admire you for the creative delivery. (This is only impressive if you keep laughing AFTER you say it, it can't be like "ha ha ha ha i'm totally in love with you *dead silence*".)

i have no good advice i'm afraid because i usually just get crushes on people and never, ever let them know, and they never, ever let me know either (i think because they do not return the feeling). best of luck.

― Maria (Maria), Monday, 27 October 2003 00:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Forget this divination tactic where you intuit an entire story out of a flip of her hair or where a glance of hers goes. She's not giving it that much attention, why should you? What are you, Sherlock Holmes?? You need to focus on what you want. What physical action would she need to perform in order for the two of you to be arm-in-arm on the Champs-Elysee? The simplest thing I can think of is that she'd need to put her arm in yours, or allow your arm in hers. So - what do you need to do to accomplish this? You might just try taking her arm in yours. People actually do this kind of thing! It's nice. I think you DON'T need to confess a deep and abiding fascination with her. That would probably lead you pretty far afield of arm-in-arm on the Champs-Elysee, which is the goal, right?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 27 October 2003 02:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Forget this divination tactic where you intuit an entire story out of a flip of her hair or where a glance of hers goes.

Yes. Staring at someone will only tell you whether they stare back, and while you will have more information that may be significant or even catalytic, the response may not mean what you interpret it to, whether for good or ill. But if you want to do it not for information-gathering but because it's what you want, then do it.

so sometimes i think if you really like someone they give you the confidence to admit it one way or another.

also, if someone makes you feel compelled to say something, either its probably at least apparent to them that you feel that way, or you're doing a good job of hiding it. in the latter case, just stop.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 27 October 2003 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

tracer is so right. go for a walk and take her arm in a quiet moment and see what happens. if nothing feels right, it will be easy to play down. i often go arm in arm with male friends, so it can be quickly turned into a friendly gesture.

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 27 October 2003 03:27 (twenty-two years ago)

amateurist, I have not read any of this thread, but they're all wrong, so listen to me. If it's not there at first, it never will be. QED.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Monday, 27 October 2003 04:21 (twenty-two years ago)

i've got a similar thing where there's this gal i think is pretty cool and probably v/v but apparently only in a friendly type way and since she's not the type to really be all emotionally open i guess nor a real flirt then i'm sorta wondering how to do the subtle telegraphing thing myself without being all stupid about it.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 27 October 2003 05:34 (twenty-two years ago)

"v/v"??

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 27 October 2003 12:10 (twenty-two years ago)

vice versa. Or she might be in artcock ensemble v/v/m.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 27 October 2003 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

vifty vifty

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 27 October 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought V/V was in The Kills?

― kate (kate), Monday, 27 October 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

What physical action would she need to perform in order for the two of you to be arm-in-arm on the Champs-Elysee? The simplest thing I can think of is that she'd need to put her arm in yours, or allow your arm in hers. So - what do you need to do to accomplish this? You might just try taking her arm in yours. People actually do this kind of thing! It's nice. I think you DON'T need to confess a deep and abiding fascination with her. That would probably lead you pretty far afield of arm-in-arm on the Champs-Elysee, which is the goal, right?

i completely sympathize with this idea, the problem is i have so little familiarity with making such (pardon the expression) moves that i'm afraid my taking her arm would come off as less valentino than roughneck policeman. like "gimme that arm!" i mean there's a mechanics to this stuff that i worry i'm not sufficiently versed in. or maybe i'm overthinking.

sometimes the idea that it might actually work out is scarier than anything else but that's a particular set of problems that are probably best left off-board.

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2003 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and p.s. yes the verbal confession is of course out of the question, it's graceless and usually ineffective.

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2003 12:36 (twenty-two years ago)

really though what i need to do is take it easy for a few weeks.

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2003 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

grabbing her like lenny from "of mice and men" will get you nowhere. but it's not that difficult to do it gently - just wait until a nice comfortable lull in the conversation, glance down to see that she's not like reaching into her purse or pocket or whatever, and slip your arm under hers.

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 27 October 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

...just cuz you feel it, doesn't mean it's there...

― nickalicious, spiteful bitter old man who will never love again (nickalicious), Monday, 27 October 2003 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

(pay no attention to me please, sorry for that)

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 27 October 2003 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

((I just happened to be listening to Radiohead right then thinking about this thing that happened at one point in the past that was kinda like this only minus the "hope" factor...))

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 27 October 2003 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

amateurist I was describing the easy route. There's a harder one, which involves supernatural mind-control: you have to work everything around to where SHE takes YOUR arm. The ESP is so difficult to get right though. One little mistake and she'll be doing the Running Man on the sidewalk, spilling her coffee everywhere.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 27 October 2003 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and nick i'm fully aware it's an outside chance.

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

is she French?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 27 October 2003 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

this thread is pet sounds.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 27 October 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

If she IS French I bet she'd like a big ol grand bouffe! She could bring a couple of friends over, you could cook up a big meal (and you could start a thread where we give you menu suggestions!!) It's always good to hang out like that with somebody you like, and from what you've said she seems to monopolize the conversation, so you can actually see what she's like when she has to listen and deal w/ people besides her designated "listener"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 27 October 2003 15:45 (twenty-two years ago)

this thread is pet sounds.

"bark", "meow", "woof", "wank"

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Monday, 27 October 2003 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

tracer sadly n-otm. i've hung out with her often in company. she doesn't really monopolize conversation. and she's not french (albeit, european). also i don't have a kitchen so i can't prepare any meals. also i have the vague feeling tracer was being toungue-in-cheek.

― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2003 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

i think i thought about this much too much

i think i was more infatuated with the idea that someone like her might be interested in me than actually interested in her. i've only known her a brief while and our rapport still needs to develop. i worry that my mild obsessing (which doesn't concern me too much in itself, obsessing seems natural enough) might inhibit our rapport. tonight i found myself feeling rather acutely the distance between us, not that it had grown greater but that it stood in bolder relief considering the sort of thinking that can be observed in my posts above. instead of our friendship being--like europe has been so far--this enchanted space where i can imagine i'm someone different than who i had been in the states, i found myself reverting to old worries, old charmless self-doubt, old loneliness. so during a small lull in the conversation i conspicuously looked at my watch and she took the cue. after i walked her to the bus stop and walked back a few blocks i turned around and walked back to see if she was still there. thankfully she wasn't, as it's best *not* to burden this new acquaintance with all the concerns i'm feeling at the moment, about paris, about etc. etc.

sometimes in things like this i think all this wondering about sex and romance is largely just something to occupy my mind, to stave off loneliness and other mundane concerns, and too try to mentally fill in the void that stands between everyone, notably when you're just getting to know them.

i hope this doesn't sound bleak, because i don't feel notably pessimistic or anything. it's just that as i mentioned before i feel this enchanted life has been revealed as partly an illusion sustained by my crazy business at the outset of my time here as well as my time in italy where i was literally surrounded with new faces to the point where i was relieved to go back to my hotel late at night and listen to music alone. now the equation has been somewhat reversed--i'm settling into a routine, not surrounded by people, far from my old friends--and things seem a bit less rosy. not to say i regret anything--far, far from it. i still think being so far away from nearly everything that's familiar will be good for me.

ok enough about that.

i just figured i owed you all some explanation.... as a means of apologizing for getting anyone's hopes up, because i think my infatuation as limned above was more a product of my imagination and peculiar circumstances as of any actual interaction between myself and the girl in question.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i think i was more infatuated with the idea that someone like her might be interested in me than actually interested in her.

which is to say, with the question of who i really am (now), am i someone who someone like this could fall for? or am i the same old someone i was, the kind of someone noone could fall for?

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean the first few times i saw her, i have a way of making even my self-doubt and those moments where i hang my head down and think long and hard before responding, or stop in mid-sentence out of a need to reevaluate what i'm saying, etc.... i have a way of making this snappy, charming, like in a screwball farce or something. but gradually those little empty moments widen and deepen and reveal a bit of their source, or a bit more of their source, and suddenly i feel like a charming bit of self-awareness and self-deprecation becomes a rather less attractive neurosis.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

wow this is totally like a diary.

sorry.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

haha i've taken this thread from arm in arm on the champs elysee to the pits of existential dread. vive la france!

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 22:20 (twenty-two years ago)

oh man, the dreaded ile silence.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 22:34 (twenty-two years ago)

i can't really think of anything to say, other than this makes me sad.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

which is to say, with the question of who i really am (now), am i someone who someone like this could fall for? or am i the same old someone i was, the kind of someone noone could fall for?

Amst, you are who you are. If it is meant to be she will fall for you. You shouldn't have to change into a miraculous new person to attract someone to you. Be yourself, or, as an alternative, learn to discuss tippets.

― Mary (Mary), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

please tell me about tippets.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 23:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Re: the arm in arm thing - hope it rains, then offer to share an umbrella if it does. Works every time.

Erm, every time it rains, that is.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

matt dc keep up! this is now the existential dread thread!

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 23:04 (twenty-two years ago)

i wish i could share mary's optimism. actually i think i do, deep down, it's like a pathology that keeps me from being more hard-headed about this things. it's just that the perverse optimism part doesn't get expressed on ile, because it's like religious faith, it's buried rather deep down and can't quite be explained.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, make sure you are both somewhere where there is stuff to LOOK AT, it both makes it acceptable to be silent and, obviously, provides talking points.

Is this all really trite and obvious? Sorry if it is.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 23:07 (twenty-two years ago)

also i should add:

i'm in a new place and don't meet tons of people. she's one of those few people i've met and she happens to be rather amazing in certain respects, so i think i've placed a larger burden of anticipation and etc. on our friendship (which is really inchoate at this point) than is healthy. i think i was realizing that tonight and kind of purposely stepped away, albeit awkwardly.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 23:09 (twenty-two years ago)

haha but yes carry on with the suggestions, perhaps i can put them to use...eventually....

mary: it's interesting though isn't it on how various crush-objects can be sort of like assertions or statements about who *you* are and wish to be. at least at first. or is this just me and my boundless solipsism? there are other people i've met recently, sometimes they are much less...graceful and adult-seeming as the girl in question...more overeager and awkward...but i often wonder.... ok this is going into weird territory sorry.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

i feel like i've let everyone who contributed to this thread down.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry my sense of humor has completely abandoned me this evening.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

the thing abt tracer's solution to arm-in-arm is that it's simple and physical and doesn't require endless nervous pre-scripting, which is like hollowing the inside of yr head out until it feels the size of a stadium

material and practical stuff is grounding, and everyone will be comfortable
poetry and "saying the right thing" is the opposite: don't say the right thing, just say stuff (nice stuff)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 23:51 (twenty-two years ago)

hollowing the inside of yr head out until it feels the size of a stadium

mark, i kiss you, a million times, from the bottom of my heart.*

*i hope my heart does not leave a trail of blood and slime on your cheek

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 23:53 (twenty-two years ago)

one problem of mine is i have so little experience so i can't guage my situation except with recourse to fairly cliched situations such as

- i am only interested in the unattainable
- i only use crushes as a self-defeating form of validation and self-definition
- my lack of self-confidence projects poorly

when the nuances of sexual attention, etc. escape me completely

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 October 2003 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

i dunno man, if she's makin you feel like this, forget it, you know?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 00:21 (twenty-two years ago)

nobody's making me feel like anything though...

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Does this gal have a clue how you feel about her?

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry, i r being drunk (and feel like i'm letting you down now so..!! i wasn't being tongue in cheek, by the way!)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't think i "feel about her", really, although obviously i'm k-attracted to her.

i wish i could be liberated from this constant need--made all the more acute by my peculiar situation--to have a crush of some kind. it seems even as i've mostly chalked up this particular crush to an imagination outracing reality, another, momentarily dormant, one begins to make its appeal.

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

no don't apologize, anyone. i am feeling particularly evil because i am basking in all this weird anonymous vicarious attention, and i welcome any and all advice, drunk or no.

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 00:25 (twenty-two years ago)

So you don't want reality, cause your crush feels more comfortable? I've seen that happen. Hmm.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

one funny thing today... we met at the movies... turns out she arrived just a few paces before me and i watched her round the corner toward the cinema. it occured to me watching her... these awesome gray tweed pants tucked into beautifully cut brown leather boots, topped by a smart leather jacket... that she actually was the sort of person who would stand out in most any context, as being uniquely poised and smart and attractive, and i hadn't simply divined some obscure intelligence and attractiveness because of some preordained connection. so that was rather disillusioning, although the revelation was perhaps overdetermined.

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 00:28 (twenty-two years ago)

jeez thank god i have a rbt wyatt record waiting for me at home.

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 00:31 (twenty-two years ago)

also tonight cryptic allusions to a guy in her class with whom she felt a "connection" followed by what appeared to be some very subtle backtracking. this little disclosure, whatever it meant, actually liberated me quite a bit. if that makes sense.

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 00:34 (twenty-two years ago)

too bad my other crush is in a different country.

i'm hopeless.

good night.

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 00:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Glad you felt you could share, anyway.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 00:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I am very interested in her tweed. Would she like to post to the Fall Fashion thread?

Also, Mary OTM regarding you are a very nice person to be already. It was good when you were trying to make Mary into Jean Seberg on the 1950s thread, maybe just imagine this girl is Mary and then you can make fun of her and you can laugh together and then you can do that hahahaIloveyouhahah thing.

Anyway, no need to apologize. This is such an ILE thread. I like it.

― felicity (felicity), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 01:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Lots of other people said good stuff, so I'll just add:

i think i was more infatuated with the idea that someone like her might be interested in me than actually interested in her.

Some people don't realize that's the situation they're in until they're on the nutz end of the stick in divorce court, and I think that in broad terms it's something that happens to everyone. Better to see it now; don't bellypunchnavelgaze it into the ground[1], just see it.

[1] I stopped by Borders on the way home and someone was buying Liz Phair's whitechocolatespaceegg, somehow this is the end result.

― Tep (ktepi), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Amateurist, I like you and wish you all the best, even though I have little to contribute. :)

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:18 (twenty-two years ago)

oh i'm hardly torn up or anything, this is just what happens when i allow my musings to make their way onto ile (i'll try not to let it happen again). and anyhow i'm more concerned with the sudden appearance of loneliness in this foreign country, the whole hopeless-infatuation thing was in fact something of a red herring.

f: i think she would have a lot to contribute to the fall fashion thread! :)

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 07:56 (twenty-two years ago)

''Amst, you are who you are. If it is meant to be she will fall for you. You shouldn't have to change into a miraculous new person to attract someone to you.''

but what if being who you are isn't good enough.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 09:32 (twenty-two years ago)

gee thanks julio

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

that comment might just relate to me.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Being who you are has to be good enough. What's the alternative? If you like someone and you feel it is not returned, you may feel that it is because you are not good enough. This is painful, but there is nothing you can do to become good enough for them. Actually there is, but that is next level Proustian mindgames. These things are about compabability -- hopefully someone will come along who you are good enough for.

― Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

''Actually there is, but that is next level Proustian mindgames''

I think i'll be reading proust for my christmas holiday ;)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

and the Uri Geller biog

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 19:11 (twenty-two years ago)

will do :-)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

ha, I thought that said "Uri Geller blog"!

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

he blogs straight into yr mind

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

everyone is good enough for everyone else except when they are a dick to them

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

nope. some ppl are surely more good enough than others. and most ppl do try to be nice to each other.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 30 October 2003 00:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think either of those statements is true.

― Tep (ktepi), Thursday, 30 October 2003 01:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Just 'cuz you feel it, doesn't mean it's there.

― Thom Yorke (Dan Perry), Thursday, 30 October 2003 01:16 (twenty-two years ago)

but many many people completely believe that first one and it can only serve to warp their (view of) interpersonal relationships.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 30 October 2003 01:18 (twenty-two years ago)

"Who feels it, knows it"

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 30 October 2003 01:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Julio, often these things are about timing. Years ago I was lonely and had a crush on someone who was uninterested. Fast forward a few years and the situation is reversed. It's not that I wasn't good enough then, or that he's not good enough now. You have to be patient, and follow what you like to do, and in the meantime you are improving your good enough self to an even better self.

― Mary (Mary), Thursday, 30 October 2003 10:20 (twenty-two years ago)

dan, that joke was made already.

i don't agree with mary really, i don't think people necessarily improve, if so all elderly people would be saintlike. and i don't think it's ever a matter of anyone being too good for me or not good enough for me.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 30 October 2003 11:36 (twenty-two years ago)

"and follow what you like to do"

(emphasis added)

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 30 October 2003 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

WAAH.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 30 October 2003 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess mary and felicity otm.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 30 October 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't agree with mary really, i don't think people necessarily improve, if so all elderly people would be saintlike

But she didn't say *all* people improve. Chasing your interests is very good advice. It simultaneously allows you to get pleasure out of something that doesn't involve the opposite/pursued sex and makes you all that much more attractive by accentuating what makes you unique.

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 30 October 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

everyone is good enough for everyone else except when they are a dick to them

I really like this.

Amst, I have the feeling that you put people on a pedastal. I think that F. gave good advice: you need to find a way to be attracted to someone without simultaneously putting them out of your reach.

― Mary (Mary), Thursday, 30 October 2003 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Exactement! Everyone pretend their crushes are Mary and it will all go much better. You will see.

― felicity (felicity), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Crushing on me is like going to be new equivalent of imagining your enemies naked.

― Mary (Mary), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

"Good enough" sets things up as "I'm better then you" or vice-versa. Interest/attraction is much more complicated then that. I don't think you are inherently a dick for rejecting someone.

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i am better than you

― Nicolars (Nicole), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

where does admiration end and pedestal-putting begin though? it's a serious question... i'm not implying that there isn't a difference.

i am chasing my interests, pretty fervently, for the first time in a long time. it's how i encountered the person in question. although maybe this thread has lost me--what exactly do we mean by chasing interests?

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

sometimes i think what comes across as "putting someone on a pedestal" is just my general mystification at what makes other people tick.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think you are inherently a dick for rejecting someone.

No of course not. I don't think Mark went dick as in the rejecter, but dick in just not treating someone as they would like to be treated. It was very Kantian.

Amst: the few times I have seen you talk about woman on this board it is in the context of how beautiful they are and how perfect they are and how they are the type of person who wouldn't be intererested in you. This doesn't seem like an interest in what makes other people tick to me. I think you are going to have to find your own balance between pedestal/admiration.

I once had a friend/crushee who had me on a pedestal for a long long time. One day the scales fell from his eyes. That was a sad day for me.

― Mary (Mary), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:32 (twenty-two years ago)

like, for example, i have some difficulty imagining what this girl does in her spare time. although she talks about it fairly frequently--being a bit confused about what to do in a new city--and talks about only having one cd right now and worrying about sitting at home alone all the time, etc.--somehow i still imagine her in some kind of state of grace not subject to the same kinds of quotidian inanities that make up my own life.

so, a pedestal, yeah, i guess so.

(x-post)

i don't think i've ever said that anyone was perfect. i could speak of her flaws but that would seem like some kind of violation. i don't like speaking ill of people in public, even if this is a strange variation on "public." and i don't really know when else i've discussed my crushes on ile. unless i have selective amnesia, this may be a first.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I once had a friend/crushee who had me on a pedestal for a long long time. One day the scales fell from his eyes. That was a sad day for me.

Only way that could end badly, Mary, is if he was lame enough to leg it down the road---after he saw reality. But then, that's always the risk, so....

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

i think she even senses that i expect her to make some brilliant observation about everything and apologizes when she doesn't have one at the ready. partly because our initial rapport was largely built around being interested in each other's observations of lots of things, since the context was that we were both newbies in this world of film professionals (won't get into specifics here). i think one thing i need to watch out for is "holding forth" on subjects rather than just making observations and discussing things in a relaxed manner. part of why i cut our encounter short is i was feeling this weird internal pressure to be clever and revelatory and deep all the time and i couldn't cope.

with regard to stars falling from eyes, this happens to me a lot, often suddenly, but then there are crushes from years ago that haven't died, but are just dormant.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

also part of my problem is i grow impatient waiting for my crushee to be more and more amazed and impressed with me (i secretly think i'm kind of great) and am rather deflated when it doesn't happen within a week or so.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Amst: just thinking of the subway girl (obvious choice) and the party girl (who we agreed to forget).

― Mary (Mary), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Only a week? No wonder you get frustrated! Takes longer than that for shy people to choke up the courage to squeak hello. You might think that she isn't interested (if she misses the 'deadline'); she might not be sure how to begin.

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

who was the party girl? i have no memories.

the subway girl...i think that may have been misinterpreted. all i thought about her was that she had just come from "andrei rublev" on a saturday (or was it friday?) night, and somehow seemed approachable but i was a bit frustrated with myself for not having approached her. i didn't project any kind of story onto her.

nichole: no, shyness is not the problem.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

also i was being hyberbolic, but just barely.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

ha. a friend and i were just talking about the difference between romance time and real time.
real time: "god, that movie's been due for like three days now. how did that happen?"
romance time: "shit! it's been ten minutes and no call back! fuck! s/he hates me! what did i do?"

― lauren (laurenp), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

so far the biggest overt compliment i've yet received from girl in question is that she was impressed that i knew about the erstwhile dictator of her smallish home country.

lauren: totally.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 30 October 2003 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and also she thinks i can play with the academics though i'm not an academic, but that is a mixed compliment at best.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 30 October 2003 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

How? I've seen you wax lyrical on many posts---while saying on topic. That's harder than it looks, dude. (And yup, I know tis harder to communicate in real life, than in cyberspace. I only mean those deep thoughts have to come from within, to begin with.)

Even if tis a 'mixed compliment', that doesn't make you any worse a human than the rest of us

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 30 October 2003 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Party girl: you came home drunk and you had met the perfect (French?) girl but she was so out of your league. Really, Amst. it's not important.

― Mary (Mary), Thursday, 30 October 2003 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

wait... i just noticed something: "erstwhile dictator of her smallish home country." no wonder you're madly infatuated with her. this sounds like something from the 40s! are you going to get drawn into some resistance plot that culminates in a chase on a luxury train? if so, please send postcards. i could use that kind of vicarious excitement.

― lauren (laurenp), Thursday, 30 October 2003 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

wow, I just up and missed this whole thread

amateurist, you are great.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Friday, 31 October 2003 06:39 (twenty-two years ago)

no, lauren, erstwhile--no global political intrigue for me, thanks.

thanks nichole and s1utsky for the compliments.

mary: oh yeah, i had forgotten about that. most of these things are just larks, i hope my tone of writing doesn't make it sound like i'm ready to slit my wrists or something.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 31 October 2003 10:44 (twenty-two years ago)

postcard: "hi lauren. here's me hopping from one coach to another in pursuit of dr. heinenglobben, whose henchmen i dispatched six rows back. through the windows you can see the dolomite mountains--aren't they lovely? oh, i hear the crackle of lit dynamite, i'll write again soon! xxoo, amateurist"

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 31 October 2003 10:55 (twenty-two years ago)

perfect!

― lauren (laurenp), Friday, 31 October 2003 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

lauren you are really nice.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 1 November 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm going to die alone

― David. (Cozen), Sunday, 2 November 2003 02:44 (twenty-two years ago)

just to clear one thing up: I do follow my own interests. And this is all i can do. I wouldn't know where to begin in faking an interest.

The 'problem' is that the interests i follow seem to be 'minority' ones.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 2 November 2003 11:19 (twenty-two years ago)

The answer is no. However, if you don't know (rather than knowing the negative) the answer is no.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Sunday, 2 November 2003 11:27 (twenty-two years ago)

i promise you

― David. (Cozen), Sunday, 2 November 2003 11:43 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm nice until the whiskey begins to talk, then look out world!

― lauren (laurenp), Sunday, 2 November 2003 16:15 (twenty-two years ago)

nice people who live a distinctly pleasant but not notably powerful impression but make you feel comfortable and relatively unneurotic VS. awesomely impressive people who leave you a ball of nerves

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:10 (twenty-two years ago)

who LEAVE a distinctly...

(sorry)

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:10 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: the previous conception of things VS. "dating up or down"

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:11 (twenty-two years ago)

never mind that actually it makes no sense

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 10:11 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean what if after a date you're not completing buzzing with excitement and anticipation, but you're content and optimistic. is that good?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 12:00 (twenty-two years ago)

yes. (oh god i read 'excitement' as 'excrement'. time for bed)

― oops (Oops), Friday, 7 November 2003 12:03 (twenty-two years ago)

of course it is. is this another girl?

― brutal (Cozen), Friday, 7 November 2003 12:03 (twenty-two years ago)

feeling content and optimistic is good. how often do you get to feel that way? sometimes it's nice not to have that constant pull on your stomach that's keeps you from eating and keeps you chain-smoking. still, i suppose we're all trained to want the fireworks, aren't we?

― lauren (laurenp), Friday, 7 November 2003 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm sabotaging my own posts with typos, sorry.

yeah i mean i had a very milquetoast sort of date, it was perfectly pleasant and relaxed but it didn't have that tang of the awkward i've grown used to. i guess that's good....

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah different girl yay me

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm actually a bit indifferent but horny if i may say so

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 7 November 2003 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

aw man i'm bummed

― amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 16 November 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

what?

― gaz (gaz), Sunday, 16 November 2003 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

who why where how when

― amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 16 November 2003 22:48 (twenty-two years ago)

wot? wah?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 16 November 2003 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

What's your "top line" amateurist? (the thing you lead your story off with; it has to be simple, include the main thrust of the information, have no commas (hopefully) and be in the active voice)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 16 November 2003 23:53 (twenty-two years ago)

ah yes well actually what was happening was i hadn't slept or had a proper meal in like 30 hours so i was a bundle of nerves, but actually nothing was wrong really. funny how that happens. i'm fine now. sorry for the false alarm.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

dude!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 17 November 2003 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

what!

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 17 November 2003 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Sometimes I think Tracer should have his own advice column.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Monday, 17 November 2003 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

This isn't it?!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 17 November 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

this is my column where i ask different people for advice

its a new concept in journalism

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 17 November 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

three weeks pass...

i owe mary and other people--but especially mary--an apology because i think she was right, i know she was right rather, i was putting girl on a pedestal. sorry mary.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 8 December 2003 08:09 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

god my crushes are epic/turgid

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 1 March 2004 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

getting drunk with crush is u&k

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 1 March 2004 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

but anyway i'm meeting some people to go to some bar where some guy is going to show his full body tatoo or something, it sounds awful but my friend told me this cute girl i met at her party will be there

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 1 March 2004 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

please write a comic strip about the experience.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 06:07 (twenty-two years ago)

oh it was so boring, i almost fell asleep

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 09:25 (twenty-two years ago)

did you see the tattoo? what was it of?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

the pompidou centre?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

no it was very tod browning's freaks sort of stuff

i dozed off during the guy's monologue

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

was it a story about all the characters tattooed on his torso?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 23:43 (twenty-two years ago)

what was the outcome here mr amateurist?

did it go all 'amelie' or what?

― piscesboy, Tuesday, 9 March 2004 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

no it went all 'why do i have this stupid crush on someone i don't always even like very much' and all 'i'm such a dolt' and all mundane and stuff. i think the worst is over, i've seen the light, etc.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

three weeks pass...

now it's in 'happy to be friends with her' gear, which is a nice consolation prize

i'm a lot more comfortable around her when i am drunk, i should be drunk more often

― amateur!st (amateurist), Saturday, 3 April 2004 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

six years pass...

it's to the point where i forget who i was even talking about on all these crush threads.

water under the bridge and stuff or just dying brain cells.

― by another name (amateurist), Friday, 23 July 2010 02:24 (fifteen years ago)

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