cutting people completely out of your life

In both cases the people had done some horrible things to me, and I wanted nothing more to do with them because in both cases it was pretty clear that they weren't likely to change their ways.

The one person I don't think about at all anymore, but my ex-friend I do think about once in a while because she has tried contacting me a few times since then.

Years later I re-visited the place, and bumped into one of her friends who told me she was still behaving in exactly the same way, at exactly the same pubs and clubs and with exactly the same people. My life had progressed to such an extent that I kind of welcomed the fact she hadn't moved on, not because it vindicated me in any way, more because it made her seem constant, one dimensional, like a superhero or a mythological character. In other words, someone who was never real.

It struck me as something I wouldn't really like to go through again.

I regret doing it, if only because it's almost like the 2+ years I knew this person were a complete waste; yeah, I know they're not, but then, there's this whole part of my life that we shared that are now (to me) nearly invalidated due to various indiscretions and stupid moves on both our parts. I think I WANT them to be invalidated, honestly - just cut everything out, all the bad parts, even the parts that might be OK but suffer from that taint.

I think, eventually, I'll come around and accept what happened - that there were good and bad bits, and that, regardless, they're a part of me, in some fashion. Right now, though, I'm trolling in some serious denial of everything associated with her. I'm gettin' there, though.

i have myself been cut off by one person, tho hello'd and smiled at nicely two or three times since, when paths have crossed

in both cases, i wd have zero problem making up, but they have to make the move

Both them are extremely bright, unhappy, not v.grown up ppl: i do think abt em now and then, and i guess assume barring accidents or moves to distant lands that stuff will be sorted eventually

For me, the only way I got over it with any finality was by coming back, and experiencing the weird illusion that I'd never gone away. which was equally creepy in many ways....

Of course, keeping one's self busy and active is also a good way to occupy one's time. Unless you enjoy excessive self-pity - then close the blinds and lie down, already. (And play _Massachusetts_, the Scud Mountain Boys album - it's perfect pity muzak.)

I don't regret cutting off contact abruptly with anyone I did it to, from my live-in ex to certain members of my own family. When people behave a certain way, they should not be given chance after chance to "make up for it". I DO, however, regret some of the people I've accidentally cut out of my life by just sheer laziness and not keeping in contact.

If having someone in your life causes you more pain than not having them in your life, a clean break is the best. Better than letting it fester and letting the person continue to hurt you. Out of sight finally equals out of mind, it is the only way that you will ever forget them.

Mind you, this is a last resort. Not to be taken lightly. I've only ever taken the conscious decision to cut someone out about 3 or 4 times in my life. Every time was completely necessary, and I've never regretted it. I've only ever regretted not doing it SOONER and hanging on to something which was so clearly destructive.

When I was on the receiving end, it was a college acquaintance who was so appalled that I'd tried to ring her after 2 years, she made her feelings clear and rung off. I seem to recall staring at the handset, dumbstruck, a la John Shuttleworth's acting masterclass.

When I did the severing, it was a girl I'd met through work, got very friendly with over a period of months, visited (600-mile round-trip) a few times and developed a slightly fractious relationship with. One evening ('Four Weddings and a Funeral' was on the telly) she rang, we chatted amiably for twenty minutes, bickered over some triviality for five, and I thought 'I could end this right now'. Down went the receiver. I never expected to see or hear from her again and I haven't.

I'm cold, me. If you need any kittens drowning, I could do it.

wow kate. that is exactly my personal situation today. but i didn't even really have to cut the person off, i just found out what a revolting person they were, hate came so easily after that. it was a welcome hate because its resolved a lot of shit that had been lingering for far too long.

(I'll be damned if Ned gets all the egomaniac points today!)

Except I already did, since I am so great, so you're damned and off to hell you go. Easy!

I wouldn't drown those kitties. I'd burn them. Only the purifying flames would cleanse them of their sin.

I don't charge for this service.

That's basically the only time -- everything else has merely been a case of falling out of touch. Cutting people off runs contrary to my nature, really -- flagging friendships will usually die a natural death, rather than needing to be pointedly terminated. I guess if someone had actively preyed on my good will, I might have occasion to cut them off. (Almost typed "cut the moff", which sounds rather interesting.) But since I've never had any friends who turned out to be true parasites, or who really tried to screw me over, I've never had to do that.

I've spent years in therapy working out that I'm OK and that its every one else that has the problem.

I have an ex who freezed me out of her life during the worst period of my life. It was just bad timing in most ways, and I understand why she did what she did (while not forgiving it). It was shortly after we split up, and she just disappeared on me, never returned any calls, texts, etc. I hadn't done anything 'wrong', she just couldn't handle the long-distance relationship, and the aftermath of a long-distance breakup. So she disappeared. My father passed away. She re-initiated contact, by way of condolence, but ended up causing more damage by flitting in and out of my life as she could handle it. I wasn't in a state to ignore her, and ended up picking myself apart in dual longing for her and grieving for my father. After a while, we met up, and formally ceased contact.

There's been the odd gesture since then, unwise text messages on both sides during weak moments, attemptedly-latonic email entensions of friendship/contact on both sides that were mostly ignored/rebuffed. Nothing whatsoever for months. Then, a couple of weeks ago, I spotted her staring at me at a gig (she's moved back here, I guess). I blanked her, I guess. I didn't want contact.

So at ATP this weekend, as my girlfriend and I entered the building, there was a monitor standing near the entrance displaying photos taken of revellers the night before. As she chatted with colleagues, I absent-mindedly gazed towards the monitor, which was displaying a photo of her and her boyfriend, I guess, snuggling together. The cosmic weirdness of the timing and everything made me laugh out loud, but it unsettled me. Partly, perhaps, the sense that this girl who I'd loved so much, who'd been unable to commit to the relationship to any concrete degree because she felt too messed up, had somehow made it work with someone else (but then, so had I, I guess). Mostly, however, it was an anxiety of confrontation. In the past, I'd spotted her with her best friend (who, throughout our relationship, morphed from friend of mine to complete stranger/enemy) at a couple of festivals, and tried to pretend I hadn't, convinced that it would engender an unpleasant confrontation (I M WUSS). Instead, I would stand, gazing into thin air, convinced they were laughing at me behind my back. Now she was here, and I started to get the Fear of what this might involve - a confrontation with my girlfriend, perhaps, some kind of shenanigans. I feared looking an idiot in front of her too, a loser. The usual, ugly, emotional-wreck stuff.

So I told my girlfriend about the monitor and she laughed, and made a joke about my ex's large bum. We caught some bands, had fun, hung out. I thought I spotted my ex at one point, but she didn't see me, so I moved away accordingly. Later, tripping on mushrooms, I passed her exiting the Slint show. She spotted me, and shot a look I would classify as shock/disgust/anxiety. I sort of smiled wanly through her and walked off. It didn't upset me too much, but I've dwelt on it a little afterwards. I know the worst thing in the world would be to let this girl back in life - she's like crack to me, addictive and utterly destructive. But I can't deny I'm attracted to the chaos in some way - I am compelled to the relationship like picking a scab. I know its ugly and unhealthy, but somehow I can't help it.

Only I can. I have cut her number out of my mobile phone. I shan't email her. If I bump into her out in town, I'll be cool, not-unfriendly, but distant. It hurts too much. She could make me feel the best I've ever felt; she could make me feel like Hell. I don't want the risk and I don't want the ride. I wish I'd never, ever met her. I wish I wasn't compelled to pick apart the meaning of her expression on saturday night.

Oh man, this is SO OTM it's not even funny. I feel like that after every relationship I've ever been in.

xpost

of course

it was my fault, partly, i messed up

it was a long time ago

i regret it

real crackheads wouldn't just smile wanly as the crack was passed in front of them again. i think you're clean. there is no relationship, so there's nothing to be compelled to, except nightmares and ghosts. shrooms aren't exactly the right lens to look thru this stuff either

xposts

The mission failed and I'm still good friends with this person, much to my delight, but I guess if I'd *really* wanted to cut someone from my life I would've done so.

I can't say I miss the friendship of any of my ex girlfriends, and I'm sure they say the same thing about me.

I have also been trying to do this with an ex for a while now. Was slightly complicated by the fact that we were both invited to the same wedding about a year ago and by the fact that we have a few mutual friends, one of whom is now a very good friend of mine. On the basis of these I'd say that it's best to make sure you can go all the way and fully cut them out. If you can't then try to find a workable compromise, even if it's just in your own head. It's bloody hard to stop yourself being aggravated on an occasional basis if you are trying to exclude someone from your life and your life doesn't really allow it.

Yep, yep. Sigh.

Anyway, I didn't make any effort to keep in touch, and thought that as 18 months had passed, that the friendship was well and truly dead. In the last month however, I received one email from her that she sent to a general email address at work, looking for me, and when I responded to it, she sent me another, which I never got round to responding to, and then two chasing up ones, including another to the generic work email.

Now do I just go on ignoring the emails, send her one and then just let it drift off again, or tell her that I was purposely cutting her out and do it again?!

you don't see a qualitative difference to what? yr girlfriends or the friendship cut?

I have to agree. I cut an entire clique of people out of my life in the past year and I've never been happier. Enough said.

change your life then? it's not as hard as it sounds.

i believe there are times when it just doesn't make any sense for two people to see each other anymore, because of simmering disagreements or differing expectations. but i've never been party to a decision such as the one suggested in the thread title, i.e. i've never cut anyone out of my life who was trying to stay in, and have never been in the position of calling or emailing someone who would adamantly not call or write back in an attempt to cut me out of theirs. i imagine that i'd find such a circumstance more puzzling than anything else, just a melodramatic version of the "we shouldn't see each other so much" that probably pretty much everyone's been party to.

this was an interesting comment, tracer, because this happened to me recently... where i ended up at the same event as someone who evidently did not want to see me, or had considerable anxiety about seeing me. (because they felt they had seen me too often recently, and because they had something to tell me that they hadn't yet worked up the courage to say.) this person was, almost literally, shaking like a leaf ... voice quavering ... eyes fixed firmly on her shoes. at the time i simply felt snubbed and frantically confused, although within hours that changed to a sympathetic contemplation of her own anxieties. what bothered me most, however, was that when we did eventually talk she didn't seem aware of the extent to which her own anxieties manifested themselves in her appearance and in her snubbing me. or else she just really didn't want to talk about it. anyway i expect to see her again --i mean, run into her--and told her so.

i was a weird kid.

OMG! Am I a sociopath?

Scott, you are NOT a sociopath. It takes effort to keep up with people when they're not around. But you've always managed to do it with the people who really matter to you.

Anyway in the last month I've met someone else, whom I really like, it seems quite serious so far, serious in that it's so much fun.

It's odd, now I look at my close friend and I can see what my friends were saying, and I feel she was probably stringing me along. Now that I no longer fancy her I just see the ugly parts of her personality and feel a certain amount of animosity for her selfishness in messing with me for so long and the way she was able to manipulate me.

In the meantime she's broken up with her boyfriend and as I see it, is now boyfriendless and lapdogless (no me anymore, I mean) and is acting extremely clingy with me.

I feel now that we were only friends based on my fancying her, and I don't want much to do with her. She rings me and asks questions about my new girlfriend and feebly tries to wield her old power over me by saying things like "I won't embarass you will I, if I come out tonight?" and I just think "no but you'll fucking embarass yourself".

It's odd how the tables have turned, I guess I feel now that I am justified in cutting her out, because of the way of led me on. At the same time I think it might be a bit mean.

The only reason I feel like being normal with her is that we were friends once I suppose, and also perhaps because I don't want her to mess things up with me with the new girl.

On the other hand, on a night like tonight she rings and asks if I'm going out and I just think "I have a new girlfriend, it's going really well, you had your chance, now leave me alone"

"Breaking up" with a friend

Friends Breaking Up

I am also really bad at keeping in touch, too. Some people think I am ignoring them when in fact I am just in a funk most of the time, and don't think about much beyond the next hour.

And even if said person made it impossible for me to deal with as a friend, I would still never consciously cut a friend out of my life unless I was forced to.. everyone defines differently what "forced to" means, of course... but it has happened to me a couple of times, and frankly, I haven't regretted it -- only because I gave the people in question more chances than they deserved.

Nowadays I have generous, thoughtful friends and I really do wonder why I allowed myself to put up with the other kind for so long.

My advice: cut cleanly and without acrimony.

Whatever you do, DO NOT actually act upon this impulse. You will regret it in the long run.

Friends start to slag the other person off, because they think it will make you feel better, but in reality you just get more and more bitter. So even the mildest of bitching, or the smallest of negative traits, you are tempted to run and run with so they seem bigger and bigger to you and eventually you just have this monster of your own creation. In time, you'll regain perspective realise that maybe they're not the goddess you originally made them out to be, but they're not the villain either.

As it happens, I'm still friends with the assumed stringer-alonger and all these issues are in the past. I'm very glad I didn't cave into the self-imposed pressure and burn my bridges entirely.

-- Amateur(ist) (amateurist@gmail.com) (webmail), March 3rd, 2005 2:34 PM. (Amateur(ist)) (link)

Well, it's not like I issue ultimatums or anything. "I close the iron door on you," etc. What I meant was, the only people I have "cut out" of my life have been people I broke up with, in which case the cutting-off was at least partly mutual and wholly circumstantial. I can't think of anyone I hate. Maybe there are people out there who hate me -- I don't know.

i've never had a friend (i.e. not a lover) cut me out of their life (or vice-versa). the worst that's happened is i've stopped talking to someone for a few days or weeks. i guess i've been lucky never to have a close friend take advantage of or abuse me.

"i forget sometimes that a cooling off period is necessary..."

You'd be far from alone.

It's funny this topic came up because there are two people who have really been plaguing my thoughts lately. One is someone I had a serious falling out with last year, and the other is someone that I need to cut out of my life STAT. Interesting times, these.

I had a policy of deliberately cutting exes out of my life. And every time I went against that policy, such horrible things would happen as to only remind me why I had the policy in the first place.

For the first time in my life, I went against my instincts and decided to maintain contact with an ex. And it was the best decision I had made all year, he's proved to be a source of support and strength and has done a lot to restore my faith in humanity and the male of the species. Then again, that says a great deal more about him than it does about me, perhaps.

So pick your cutting out decisions wisely, and not on the spur of an immediate emotional reaction.

Way I see it, there's a couple of people who were in my life who could stand to learn from this and stop using excuses and half-truths to escape this.

(More thoughts/experiences later)

yeah, my life would be so much easier were it not for people. i should do this!

I had someone stand me up for a date and apparently do this out of the blue.

she hate you

I don't understaaaaand

Not that I need to, but have you ever cut off old friends / exes completely with the expectation of never, never, ever seeing or speaking to them again?

If so, do you regret it or was it a good thing? do they prey on your thoughts or have you mostly forgotten them?

-- Alasdair, Wednesday, November 7, 2001 8:00 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark Link

i do this a lot to people who didnt really do anything wrong to me and i dont really regret it

i think its a lot creepier when ppl want to stay in touch all the time with every ex and friend from high school and family member and like keep old photos and shit.... life is boring if you dont move on

i dont wanna be ppl i know who are really old like 30 and still have pics of them from when they were 22 or something on a road trip

when i do this it usually just happens and i don't even realize i did it until two years later and i'm like, "wait i haven't talked to them in forever. eh who cares."

that happens too but im talking more like when your ex is calling again at 2am and youre just like uggh i am never picking up that phone no matter how shitty my life gets

ive never understand the point of ppl staying in touch endlessly with the same old ppl if you dont like A+++++ love them - why not take a shot with new ppl and see what happens?

good job

of course im saying that as i POST TO ILX :-[

posting to ILX = yelling out of a car window

ppl i know who are really old like 30

ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30 ppl i know who are really old like 30

i still have love letters from 12 years ago! it's not like i pour over them every weekend all teary eyed and shit - i'm just not about chucking them out i guess.
also when you're "really old" it's hard to meet new people and the only decent ones you will meet usually have their own friends.

once you get out of high school having a new bff every other week is not quite as easy.

& i still have roadtrip pics too, ya fuckor!

I have a friend I've pretty much cut out of my life, for the crime of never being the one to make contact. If I don't call or email him, we don't talk. I don't think he dislikes me -- he always seems really happy to hear from me when I call him, and we catch up on months or years worth of news. But he acts like phones and email are one-way devices. It's always pissed me off, and I'm fed up with doing the heavy lifting.

fuck - one of my best friends is turning into that.

I've been friends with this guy for 22+ years and he's never called me up out of the blue, only to return my calls left on his machine.

i'm not really happy unless i feel like i'm making new friends. and i do kind of do this... if there's no reason to stay in touch i don't really.

however if i do totes love the person of course i do keep 'em close.

i would say maybe it's not that he's, you know, just not that into you, but that he's embarrassed that he's not better at contact-making (tho it could be some of both), but if that's not an exaggeration that's like srsly bizarre.

I moved a lot as a kid and learned how to let people go, and it's a pattern that has continued (unnecessarily) into my adult life to some degree. Good example is a big crew of drinking buddies from work who I just completely stopped talking to when I decided to chill out on drinking. Maybe it's just me, not letting people get close, but usually the common thread for friendship for me is activities - so once I lose interest in those activities, what's left?

That "ppl i know who are really old like 30" text banner actually looks really cool. It's a rippling flag.

I have never done this.

I am one of those people like Rock Hardy's friend. Sorry, everyone.

I don't like to ring people up or email them etc because generally I feel like... if they wanted to know me, then they'd get in touch, which seems clearly hypocritical, but I rationalise it as being fair because they're cooler than me or more social or whatever, so if they phoned me then obviously they'd be doing me a favour, but if I phoned them I'd be a boring imposition butting into their day and making demands of them.

Also, I like seeing people, but I am very bad at committing to plans. I get nervous, oh no, WHAT IF. What if what? I don't know. "What if I need to be somewhere else, or I can't find transport?", but I fear also "what if I'm kind of tired that day and would prefer to sit around doing fuck all and then regret doing fuck all yet again?", probably.

Plus I feel like if I'm going to get in touch then I should have NEWS or EXCITING IDEAS FOR ACTIVITIES or at least be charming and hilarious and entertaining, and I never have the first two and can't live up to the last part, so I think "eh, I'd like to, but I'm tired now and don't have anything to say, but maybe tomorrow I will be sparklingly witty and able to think of some fun and non-awkward hanging-out proposition other than 'hey, we should meet up some time... but i don't know where or when or what we could do except stare nervously at each other a bit, so... whatever'."

So, basically, I am a lazy antisocial shut-in aspie flake. But that is an "insight" into the mind of an antisocial shut-in aspie flake, anyway.

Yeah, tldr. So you see it isn't entirely unfounded that I'd expect to be the unwanted bore droning away while the other party cursed their luck at somehow giving me the impression I was welcome.

I did this a few years ago. It was helpful that I moved from one city to another when I did it. They were great people that I went through some tough shit with, but they were also the key reason I needed to move in the first place (peer group ready to throw illegal substances @you is great until you try to quit). I haven't seen any of these people in 2.5 years, and I miss them a lot. But I don't miss being broke all the time, I don't miss skipping class to sleep off benders, etc.

Glad I broke the ties, even if I miss the shit out of em.

If the people are enabler-types then it's probably a good idea to lose them. ESPECIALLY if you know deep down that they are only drug buddies.

I'm an enabler type. I'm probably a drug buddy too

I never cut people out of my life...but I understand if they cut me out. It might hurt sometimes, doesn't mean it is bad

And What says "why not take a shot with new ppl and see what happens?" - this is as true as it gets.

Don't think about cutting old poeple out or not, always focus on the new - keep the old, sure, but always add to your life. If you lose things along the way, its ok

Live your own life and people will always want to be part of that

It's sad when you make friends with people you have a ton in common with (personality wise, etc.), but they decide to keep no contact since they they probably have enough friends in their life.

you can probably make new friends on this thread

I'm relating a bit to spacecadet's post, and I really think it may have something to do with having minor chemical imbalance or something. There is no way I can predict what kind of mood I'll be in when it's time for the scheduled social event, so it's almost like buying tickets to baseball games during rainy seasons. Making plans used to stress me out more when I was younger, but I've gotten better at just rolling with my mood and trying to make the best of it.

^^^haha ditto

It is surprisingly difficult to cut people out of your life entirely, thanks to...THE INTERNET. Thanks, people I was glad to never hear from again, for finding me on....THE INTERNET. ;_;

http://www.langantiques.com/images/silver_group.jpg

http://loudsign.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/gold.jpg

a friend of mine, who i sort of slept with a few times, told me a lesson i've never forgotten - you think people just vanish but they don't. you'll always see them again somehow - so don't burn your bridges. unsurprisingly, this is also the person who told me she slept with one of my friends, and said, with evident satisfaction, that she was the last to make contact. "there's no way i'd let him be the last one to make a call. fuck that!"

"sort of"

your friend is both hott and mental

One of my best friends cut me out of her life in January - by email. She asked that I never contact her in any way and that if I do, she'll consider it harassment. It was one of the biggest wtf things to eve happen to me because I have absolutely no idea what prompted it and neither do any mutual friends. Haven't had any contact at all since the email. So damn weird. She kinda crazy though.

...i guess!

I totally relate to spacecadet's post too, and I just read it out to my bf and he chuckled and said "hell yeah!" heh. I'm hopeless. One of my closest friends just last night sent me a hurt email asking if I was pissed off at him cause we haven't spoken in weeks. Hell, he hasnt contacted us either, but going from talking to him on msn every night to not at all is going to look a bit bad, I suppose. I feel guilty, but once that train rolls, I somehow can't stop it for some reason.

xpost also holy shit E, that would really upset me if that happened to me! I hate it when people do that and you honestly have no idea why :/ its happened to me recently.

You want to have friends, you got to be a friend, ffs.

i'm old enough now that things seem to have been whittled down to a core group that both understands me and doesn't really care how much time has gone in between. i'm a little disappointed in my life, but i'm pretty proud of my friends.

I sort of did this accidentally when I got married. One of my friends said she couldn't make it to my wedding cos she couldn't afford it. I looked up the train fare from Northampton to Worcester and it was £13.50, so I was kind of pissed off with her. So we didn't email each other for ages and then it became like 3 years, but I didn't really intend to cut her off. Then she found me on Facebook and we're friends again.

True dat, Rock. And I know I'm not a great friend sometimes. it bugs me. But I'm really introverted.

Plus I did the "fuck this, I'm not going to be the one who calls" with my dad once. Took him 3 years.

Trayce - yeah, it was really upsetting and a really shitty thing to have happen. I cried when I read the email and am still pretty upset about it. I would just rather know what the hell I did to make her actively cut me out of her life completely. In the email she said that the details didn't matter and that I shouldn't bother asking because she wouldn't answer. The fact that I have no idea what it could be just makes it harder.

That's just WTFingly awful. One of my friends had that happen to him a year or 2 ago and he eventually found out it was because he'd complimented the guy's girlfriend once! OK...

:( Thats really awful. xpost

i sent an e-mail like that once, but it was after six months of ice cold, blatant avoidance for reasons i still don't know. my e-mail was a fuck you of sorts and it was sort of cathartic though i'd probably have preferred to have said it face to face.

We live fairly close to one another. I'm dreading the day we run into each other.

Also really weird? She sent an email the next to my closest friends who are a couple saying "I'm sure you've heard that I've ended my friendship with E. I understand that you've known her longer and that we will now have to end our friendship too. Good luck with everything." So damn weird.

omar did it involve a couch?

enbb yr friend is craaaazy

Sorry about yr friend, ENBB. Sometimes are so inexplicable that, well, they can't be explained and so fretting about them kind of exacerbates things. But it still has to hurt like hell.

That's really bizarre and kind of attention-seeking. xxpost

E has anyone else in yr circle tried to get more info out of her? Tho it sounds like that'd not get far from what you've said.

Man, the thing that bugs me is when that shit happens to me, I get all obsessive and bugged and want to know wtf happened, and I hate that it turns me into a PITA.

Man, how much shit must have gone on in her head before sending those emails

Yeah, it does hurt and she's definitely crazy. If I wanted to be really mean oh the stories I could tell. ha. She was in my wedding so I have tons of pics of her that I'll have forever so that's fun.

Trayce - No, the couple she emailed were really the only good mutual friends we had and obv they haven't talked to her either. In a lot of ways she was such hard work that it's easier this way but in the end I did really value her friendship. sigh. Oh well.

stet - I know, right? That's what makes it even more of a mystery because it seems like whatever it was must have been a big deal but I didn't do anything!

The same night she sent the email she also dropped me from facebook and password protected her website!! CRAZY!

That is the kind of thing I have done in fits of paranoia, but not with a big ultimatum announcement. Best to keep it quiet so no bridges are burnt crispy when senses return. I know my own ways.

Yeah. There's really no going back on what she did so part of me hopes she realizes one day that I didn't do whatever it is she thinks I did and that she feels horrible about treating me badly.

I hope she does too, bcz what she did was completely rotten!

I've read stories about Alan Moore doing that to somebody, either Veitch or Bissette I think. "You're not my friend anymore. You won't get an explanation. Goodbye." So fucked up.

it's going to turn out to be something utterly innocuous that birled around in her crazy bonce until email explosion took place, isn't it?. Like that one time, when you totally took Dreamboat Gorilla off yr facebook profile just after she put it on hers.

i cut people off all the time, not by design, but more because out of sight out of mind. If you're not in my school/work/core friends group, i just can't be "arsed" to keep in touch, esp if you live in a diff. city. a couple of people have really tried to stay in touch over the years, always calling me first, and i feel bad about lazily blowing them off, but i have enough close friends in addition to my family, don't have the time/focus to stay in contact.

ha! Yeah, it totally will.

ENBB, people who send out of the blue abusive emails and then try to deny you or others right of reply via the harassment canard have actually just harassed you. I would have replied, ending the friendship on my own terms, safe in the knowledge that whatever cop she called in on that would assess her as batshit insane or busted her for wasting cop time. I would assess her as jealous of you in some incredibly convoluted and destructive way.

Man its funny reading all this cause I guess in small ways we all do it, and its easy not to think of the effect you have on other people when you blow 'em off, even though one is well aware of how much it hurts when done to themselves. God my own hipocrisy hurts me head sometimes.

x-post - I thought about doing that but just decided to leave it although I sort of wish I'd sent something along the lines of "Dearest R, You are fucking crazy. Love Always, E" At the time I was too shocked to do anything really.

Yeah, but there are some times when your ego is right to demand closure via last word. You'd also have to do it by snailmail.

suzy, i cut you off. good luck with everything...WITHOUT ME

lols

my bestfriend cut me off a few years ago, too. the friendship was already fading out a little - different new friends, etc. - but then she stopped returning my calls. a few months passed and i found out through mutual friends that she had decided to hate me because my other best friend (who she didn't know all that well) had slept with her boyfriend (who was her EX at the time, and had been for 6 weeks). apparently it was my fault on two counts: 1. the other girl was MY friend 2. i didn't tell her about it.

in retrospect, i'm glad because she was a really bitchy, unreliable person (i found out a couple of other dodgy things after that).

most of the ppl i've cut out of my life have been family... i'm sure some ppl would be horrified by that, but my older bro and most of my mum's side of the family are a pack of assholes, so a few years ago i decided i couldn't be fucked with that shit.

Women like that never, ever look to the man in that scenario as the basis of the problem.

tell me about it. they got back together, he confessed (idiot), she stayed with him and got rid of me. makes so much sense. i mean, would have been different if the other friend was also a friend of hers (betrayal of friendship etc.) but that wasn't the case at all.

"a passing spacecadet" upthread,

it sounds like you are kind of doing your friends a disservice and treating them in a mildly insulting way by always assuming that they would necessarily be doing you a "favor" by deigning to hang out with you, not to mention that you are assuming that they are not capable of simply politely declining if they happen to be busy, or that they are being insincere in their affection for you... you know what I mean? it's as though you're taking whatever negative opinions you have towards yourself and then assuming that your friends share precisely the same thoughts regarding you that your neurotic mind has cooked up.

if my cheap analysis is completely off-base, please let me know.

but, seriously, it sounds like you're shortchanging both yourself and your friends.

ENBB that sounds very hurtful and frustrating. I'm sorry, that sucks. When someone is determined to keep things broken it hurts. I agree with suzy it may be that special flavor of jealousy that certain women friends seem to have.

I detach from people who do this. Sometimes for years at a time, and most come around later. I hope for them they get their shit together, but I don't respond to abuse. Especially not with a jackoff email of my own. I'd rather be nice to someone else.

I don't consider detaching cutting people off so much as dog whispering.

as a postscript: i did run into this girl last year, she was all friendly, we exchanged numbers, a week later i messaged her to see if she wanted to catch up for coffee. never heard back. i mean, JESUS LADY IT WAS LIKE 6 YEARS AGO.

also: my closest friends and i all have an understanding that we are slack-assed fuckers when it comes to keeping in contact.

I have a hard enough time getting people into my life

dell OTM

re dell re spacecadet:

i don't sign up for the "if they wanted to know me, then they'd get in touch" part, but i TOTALLY buy into the committing to plans part. i hate making plans cause i could easily be in a totally fucked up mood for any number of reasons when they come round. seriously, this totally colors my entire life.

most of my friends have, god bless them, adjusted to this, or i have adjusted to them in some non-replicable fashion.

here i was going to catalog my insane foibles, but suffice it to say that while i totally understand where rock hardy is coming from, i might not be able to help it were i his friend. and that's not totally because of the braves thing.

Oh, interesting... I have a difficult time relating to that perspective, b/c my mood invariably improves at the prospect of socializing, whereas if I spend too much time alone then I sometimes find myself slipping into dark moods, fixating on stuff that doesn't even really matter.

This is an emo thread.

and that's not totally because of the braves thing.

lol

This is an emo thread.

Hey fuck you moley *cries into fists*

I WILL COMFORT YOU SWEET ANTIPODEAN

FUCK YOU MOLEY

I have a hard enough time getting people into my life

-- Curt1s Stephens, Saturday, April 12, 2008 3:44 AM (48 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Yeah w/my sched I can really only make time for a very small social circle of two or three, one of whom I talk to on AIM pretty much daily and the rest who I try to contact once a week or so. I don't know when I'd make the time to shoehorn other people in.

lol mook =)

[here i was gonna write an o you kids thing]

but seriously, it isn't as easy to meet kickass people outside of college/grad school or whatever. or any people at all really.

[here is my mom's thing about college opportunities etc]

CRUT1S YOU RULE PLZ CARRY OUR TORCH FORTHWITH ETC

ALSO CUT YOUR HAIR AND PLZ DON'T TURN INTO KENAN

After school it's basically impossible to meet new people. Impossible. At work everyone's old and married and related to work, and in daily life you can only date and meet new friends through your significant other, who will leave once he/she does.

oh burt_stantonpants

are you forrealz or are you a git?

lol what is "PLZ DON'T TURN INTO KENAN" about?

there's the man behind burt-stanton and the creation known as burt-stanton and every day they struggle for control

dell otm re me, and yes, if I go along with PLANS I am usually glad. I do realise it's fucked up now (I mean, before this thread too, obv) and have been trying to stop but it's hard work to fix old habits, and right now transport and free time are both in short supply, so sometimes I turn things down or fail to act on good intentions to email people and am then not sure whether it was for semi-legitimate reasons or I'm being a fuck-up again.

but seriously, it isn't as easy to meet kickass people outside of college/grad school or whatever. or any people at all really.

It certainly isn't, but I've been emo enough on here. Though university was kind of flake-enabling for me in that I didn't have to make the effort ever, if I wanted to see people or get invited to shit I didn't have to call anyone, just had to go down to the student bar any night of the week and see who turned up.

(This was back when only a few of us had mobile phones, and most of us didn't have landline phones or internet access in our rooms, so this was pretty much the most convenient way of hanging out even for less screwy people. The chances of never making other contact must be lower now the kids are texting and on facebook all day, but I'm sure the basic policy of just going to the bar or the common room every day and seeing who's there survives. And the idea of having a "local", where you know you can find good people with no notice, is by no means restricted to students but is a hell of a lot easier to set up when you are one.)

Graargh you've touched on something that I think bugs me big time - the fact that internet and cellphones mean one is expected to be contactable so much more often than used to be the case.

I'd go into more detail here but I am tired, tipsy and in a foul mood.

I don't initiate contact with people because I don't think they want to hear from me. Rock Hardy, you have made me rethink this, and in fact my life.

people scare me so i do this a lot. it's really overrated

there's nothing wrong with wanting to be wanted but it shouldn't cripple you. you don't want to be the one that always calls but if you never do it, you can't really be too upset when they don't call you either.

AA, glad to hear it.

I'm debating doing this with someone now... my dad's sister is totally irresponsible and addicted to hard drugs, a sociopath, and anytime someone crosses her they are labeled a drug addict - her ex-husband, my mom, my dad's employees, me, etc. She's out of my life completely but she's tied at the hip to my dad and she just hates my mom, my brothers and I. She works for my dad and he will not stand up to her even while she's bankrupting his business while alienating clients and giving herself raises. It's just crazy and she and her kids just seem to have it out for the world, seem to want to bring everyone down a notch. She and her kids have ruined peoples' trust in me and have ruined my trust in others. She pressures my dad not to pay my mom alimony and a decision of hers 15 years ago almost put my mom in prison. It's horrible.
I really don't know what to do but I haven't seen my dad since June and I'm not sure how long I'll keep going, but he let me believe for years that my mom was responsible for all these problems and it messed up my relationship with her for a long time and I've only recently regained trust in her. I just feel like my mom and brothers are not my dad's priority, his extended family is.

Sociopaths - you can't live with them and you can't live without them.

No, wait. There's something wrong with that sentence that I can't quite put my finger on.

Yes, the few that I've dealt with (mainly this woman and her son), it's like they're constantly, constantly provoking people. Almost as bad, they perceive any reaction as a threat, and they then increase their provocation of others. The amount of lying that goes on is incredible also.

I love how someone gets mad because you won't call them, just because they are on Facebook. I mean I had two sick parents and a death in the family, I just don't feel like immediately re-integrating myself into someone's world when I haven't hung out with them in fifteen years or more. I mean, sorry, deal with that.

Demands like that are such a juvenile drag.

I missed a birthday dinner because I was incredibly ill, I called since I had rsvp'd and said I would be there. I received the most hateful email from the birthday girl the next day, angry that I had missed this one birthday celebration. Facebook wall flamed. Um.....BLOCK!

Sorry, said I WOULDN'T be there.

Yeah there's no room in life for people like that.

That is actually why I cut someone out of my life about 8 years ago. I was very supportive - emotionally, materially - of someone for years and years with very little in return. I was about to move halfway across the country and start law school around the same time that I got fed up with the way this person made choices that perpetuated her endlessly miserable state (and were detrimental to her young son) so I pulled back a little. Her response was to send me an email telling me what a horrible person I was for being distant when she needed me the most and my response was to email her back and clearly and concisely lay out all the reasons why she sucked.* I haven't spoken to her since but she did get her act somewhat together shortly thereafter so that's good, I guess.

*I would probably not do that if I had it to do all over again.

Familiar with that scenario.

More than once I have heard the story of women cutting off other female friends over missed birthdays. So long as my mother remembers, I really don't care. Phenomenon. I have more steady male friends in my life than female for that reason.

argh in a pissed off mood I sent a shitty email to somebody that was an ultimatum about a flickering friendship and since then, total silence. I wrote an apology email, to which no reply has been made. I saw this person at a Pissed Jeans show two nights later and he was "friendly" in a cold ass way but kept looking at me with an unreadable pokerface. We are exes so it's complicated and messy. I feel like the boy who cried wolf about my own proposed-then-recalled "cutting someone completely out" gesture- like I get all the shittiness of having made an attempt, and none of the payoff of succeeding because i'm obviously still hung up on this person as my apology demonstrates. I wish you could soothe or numb the relentless need to be loved, but it's the most basic human stance and maybe you just can't. if only I hadn't sent that email and just let things die out naturally I wouldn't have this awful regret and this feeling that I'm the jerk in the picture.

...In everyone there sleeps
A sense of life lived according to love.
To some it means the difference they could make
By loving others, but across most it sweeps,
As all they might have done had they been loved.
That nothing cures.

This has had me thinking all day, maybe I cut people out of my life to quickly and to often.

Then I thought, nah...I really go all out for friends and lovers. I become irked and increasingly angered when they begin to just take and take and offer not even the smallest amount of understanding. The day I missed the birthday dinner I had eaten something foul at Alamo Draft House called Sex in a Bowl. It was champagne and cream and crap and I became ill while at the theatre. I returned a gift later that week that I had put a lot of thought into (because I always do. I love buying gifts for people and making it special) and was left quite hurt. We had had this close friendship for two years and it was all over so quickly, it must not have meant much to her.

Happened again recently with a girlfriend of six years. I divorced and she had to "process the situation". Even though she and my ex-husband didn't get along. He made it clear he was not fond of her, to my extreme embarrassment. When I found someone new, she was nothing but sour and weird and finally sent me an email that she wanted no contact for awhile, had to "process". I replied that I would prefer no contact ever again.

Exes, if at the base of relationships is friendship and we failed as lovers, I figure we failed as friends as well. True friends. I like true friends in my life and that is what I am left with.

Yeah you're right about the "failed as lovers, failed as friends" link there- I guess the trouble is that the thing that killed the affair is also what killed the friendship- that same basic disparity tangled us up twice in a row- if I felt like a gullible self-deluding fool for trying out a friendship with an ex, I feel like even more of a jerk for trying to have some dramatic "last word" that in hindsight never needed speaking. But the "forced" quality of the whole thing exposes why it wasn't going to work, on either level.

*tera, your friend's need to "process" your breakup sounds like such self important bs. to what exent was she expecting you to apologise for the way your ex husband had treated her?

Jed: It was weird, I didn't understand it and she offered no other details or reasons, just "process" . I was willing to try and understand at one point. I had long apologized for him and she claimed not to be that bothered. She seemed bothered by the fact that we divorced and that I later found someone. Perhaps too soon for her taste but I'll never know.

My childish action was to erase all my comments from her blog. She then had to "cleanse" the blog and this entailed weeks and weeks of posting photos of roses sometimes more than once a day and a continued announcement that she was cleansing her blog. I felt my childish act was topped and that I made the right decision.

Yeah there's no room in life for people like that.

That is actually why I cut someone out of my life about 8 years ago. I was very supportive - emotionally, materially - of someone for years and years with very little in return. I was about to move halfway across the country and start law school around the same time that I got fed up with the way this person made choices that perpetuated her endlessly miserable state (and were detrimental to her young son) so I pulled back a little. Her response was to send me an email telling me what a horrible person I was for being distant when she needed me the most and my response was to email her back and clearly and concisely lay out all the reasons why she sucked.* I haven't spoken to her since but she did get her act somewhat together shortly thereafter so that's good, I guess.

*I would probably not do that if I had it to do all over again.

― pullapartsquirrel (Jenny), Wednesday, October 5, 2011 2:58 PM (6 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This person is apparently moving to Chicago and has made overtures about "getting together." :|

I think I kind of do this organically with boring people. When people send platitudinous e-mails, or we have multiple uneventful nights out, I just find myself "drifting away" from them. Not such a bad thing-- though I am constantly in fear of being on the receiving end of this.

But anyway, I am actively having to do this right now with somebody I genuinely love. He is fun and intelligent and talented, but has absolutely zero compassion. He has to go. The thought of him vacating my sphere of concern is extremely soothing, like a headache finally dissipating.

But it's interesting. As I was working today, I was internally rehearsing future conversations with him, practicing how I was going to blow him off, trying to find the right balance of nonchalance and finality. Of course, this doesn't at all mean I have been successful at "cutting him off"... I mean, even now, I'm still typing about him. I look forward to getting my head to a place where it doesn't dwell upon his existence with more than a passing acknowledgement.

the fantasy of explaining to someone who you believe is genuinely oblivious to what it is that might be difficult or draining about their personality in order to do the right thing and possibly even give them useful insight or perspective rather than resorting to dropping the steel shutters of what could appear to them inexplicable and harsh coldness

Dear Goon Tie, this does not sound like a situation for "cutting off completely" (this is generally reserved for people who are actually abusive or toxic) but more for a slow fade, or what Captain Awkward calls the "African Violet of Friendship". It's worth searching Captain Awkward for the series of posts on this, the conceit being that although our culture has many accepted rituals for ending romantic relationships which are no longer functioning, it has no comparable ritual or method to end platonic friendships which are no longer functioning. So the "African Violet of Friendship" is a kind of "how to break up, non-awfully, but still firmly, with friendships".

This is the original post where the phrase came from:

http://captainawkward.com/2011/01/18/reader-question-5-how-do-i-deal-with-a-clingy-friend-who-tries-to-make-over-my-life/

Unfortunately while our culture provides many scripts for breaking up with romantic partners, it has no template for ending friendships. There should be a ritual.

“Dear Friend, please take this African Violet as a symbol of the close and wonderful friendship we once shared. Please enjoy it in good health, and if you are having a problem or just want to chat, please call someone else from now on.”

And this is how the tag became a catchphrase:

http://captainawkward.com/tag/the-african-violet-of-broken-friendship/

Q: does anyone think this would be a good candidate for de-indexing? I started to post about a person that fit this and then realized it might not be advisable.

i have not spoken with my father in over 3 years and this has been v good for me. in favor of cutting people out of your life who are abusive, obv.

word

way to go.

This can be a good thing to do. Life is short. Time is precious. There are too many people on the planet to allow your life essence to be sucked away by vampires and victims. Cutting a bad person out leaves more room for good people.

when does "love" with so many toxic strings attached become "abuse". the hardest for me was dealing with how i missed those relationships (parents) but then realizing what i actually missed was love-minus-toxic-strings-attached, which i never received and will never receive from them, and mourning this in wider context. working on building a sense of love without the strings afterwards, that's actually the hardest. xpost

I have never made a concious decision to cut my parents off, but when it has happened I liken it to an internal circuit breaker that popped and can't be reset. Fuck all that papist quaker-babble about the sanctity of parents! One thing I learned recently is that my mother is just as loathsome as my father and I was blind to this for decades, and she was adding to my low self esteem woes with her slow, hateful attrition.

I guess to give the non-specific version: a friend of ours for a number of years has gone increasingly batshit since her divorce a few years ago, making a series of painfully bad choices in terms of work and dating, and also behaves very frustratingly every time we're around her (showing up absurdly late for everything, having the food ready four hours after you arrive if you go there, etc.) We realized we just couldn't be around her anymore and decided to stop accepting invitations.

Keep hearing this thread title to the tune of Got To Get You Into My Life, with the big horn section and all.

ironically

If you're going to cut someone out of your life, it's best to do with with a big horn section accompaniment.

Someone I considered my best friend did this to me for reasons I truly can't fathom. It was hurtful.

We had friends do it to us once our kid was born. They wanted kids and couldn't have them I think is probably part of the underlying unspoken reason. But they just like refused to make any effort to see us, no matter how many times we invited them. I guess in theory I should be able to say "why would I want someone like that as a friend anyway?" but it's still hard to accept.

When you have a severely disabled kid you realise how fantastic all your friends are as the invites dry up. Sometimes you need extraordinary friends, not many of them fuckers about, nor family for that matter. Sorry for sounding bitter.

We had friends do it to us once our kid was born. They wanted kids and couldn't have them I think is probably part of the underlying unspoken reason. But they just like refused to make any effort to see us, no matter how many times we invited them. I guess in theory I should be able to say "why would I want someone like that as a friend anyway?" but it's still hard to accept.

Having gone through infertility myself, to the point where my children are adopted, I sympathize with your ex-friends.

Yeah, that's a tough one. Sometimes it's really not about you at all. It's just hard to escape how bad it can feel. Not that you're in the wrong, hurting, or that you shouldn't be upset. I've just been on the opposite side of that situation, too. (The worst was going to a kid-heavy event about a year after I had a miscarriage and thinking it would be just fine and realizing after about 15 minutes it was pretty fucking far from just fine, but not wanting to make anybody feel bad. Bleh.)

point taken

Yeah I mean, I almost cut my family out of my life after we had spent $$$ on surgery and IVF only for my brother to call me up at midnight to inform me that he and his wife accidentally got pregnant sooner than expected and, when I called my parents to ask why he would do that to me, my mom said that she had told him he should call me immediately despite his misgivings and my dad said I needed to put aside my feelings and be happy for him and the start of his family. People are often, completely unwittingly, complete and utter assholes about fertility issues and isolating yourself starts to become the only viable alternative.

(I don't yell at my family very often so they take me VERY seriously when I do, and to their credit they've been fantastic about the whole issue ever since, which is why I ultimately didn't cut them out of my life.)

something very similar happened in my extended family, one set having an unexpected child while their sibling was struggling to have kids

im not particularly close to my family so i wasnt particularly aware of the extent of the awkwardness during this phase though it became clearer subsequently

I ought to cut my family out of my life and my inability to do so is a source of grief and anxiety for me.

I didn't really talk to my sister for six months and there are now topics I've let her know I have no interest in hearing about, and it's definitely helped our relationship.

Someone I considered my best friend did this to me for reasons I truly can't fathom. It was hurtful.

― lauded at conferences of deluded psychopaths (Sparkle Motion)

this happened to me too. i think it was because they crashed at my place for three months and i eventually asked for rent.

I don't know if I could live with my own parents for multiple months without paying some nominal rent, let alone a friend

I ought to cut my family out of my life and my inability to do so is a source of grief and anxiety for me.

It's so fucking fraught and complicated. Try to be forgiving of and kind to yourself here, whatever choices you make.

otm

DJP I'm kind of on the opposite side of your sitch. I didn't know that my sibling had been through IVF when I got pregnant (my mother stopped me from crashing in with my news at least). Also I was aware of a close colleague having a miscarriage a week or so before I needed to announce it, and recently another colleague has had a terrible thing happen baby-wise and I still haven't told her I'm pregnant to avoid any chance of upsetting her. I really didn't (and still don't tbh) know how to act so just trying to keep it minimal.

Someone I considered my best friend did this to me for reasons I truly can't fathom. It was hurtful.

― lauded at conferences of deluded psychopaths (Sparkle Motion)

this happened to me too. i think it was because they crashed at my place for three months and i eventually asked for rent.

― the late great, Wednesday, July 2, 2014 5:36 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

One of my closest friends did this to me over email and flat out refused to tell me why "I learned something today that has caused me to decide to terminate our friendship but the exact reason isn't important and I'm not going to get into it". She even went so far as to say that if I ever contacted her again she would consider it harassment and contact the authorities. It was totally bizarre and out of the blue and none of our mutual friends (who she also cut out) know why either. It hurt me tremendously and I still have weird dreams/nightmares about running into her one day.

I haven't been hanging out here much, so sorry to just jump in, but I'm struggling against what I should do about my mother. My wife and I had to live with her for awhile when I was changing jobs and it was one of the most unpleasant experiences of my life. She's a drunk and sort of useless. My wife made many attempts to befriend her and create activities they could do together, but she only wanted to drink and smoke, something we didn't want around our daughter. She now calls my wife and makes her feels unwanted in my family and veers towards abusive language. I think once again I have to remove her from our lives. I've asked her to not make these phone calls and my wife has asked her to not bring up certain issues on the phone, but a drunk never listens to polite requests. But cutting my own mother out is hard for me, I keep forgiving her and hoping she'll listen and start growing in her life.

I've cut my sister completely out of my life, for reasons I discussed on the sociopaths thread. It's not easy, but it has to be done.

Jacob, my dad had to cut his mother out of our lives for similar reasons. He's never talked about whether it was a difficult decision, which makes it seem like he just laid down the law and cut her off, but after a few disastrous visiting trips in my childhood, we never went back (as a family, tho my dad and I visited alone once). I think seeing how much it hurt us kids to have our mother insulted and plotted against was probably the last straw. Do what you need to do. Mental/emotional illness is a sad thing but if you want to stop it from continuing down generations, you may have to make choices there.

I ought to cut my family out of my life and my inability to do so is a source of grief and anxiety for me.

― Now I Am Become Dracula (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, July 2, 2014 5:12 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

:( it can be done! i couldn't understand how for years and then one day i just stopped returning phone calls. carl is right that it's fraught but most days i think it's one of the best things i ever did.

nb: i only cut out one person, so i'm not trying to say it's easy. though in my case it was kind of easy tbh. way easier than dealing with the person.

i didn't see or speak to my mum in the two years before she died, and i don't and never have regretted it

― (govtname)mac (darraghmac), Thursday, 19 January 2012 21:33 (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

drop that shit imo, do it today.

It's too long and personal story to get into here but my closest friend did this to me for reasons that according to him had nothing to do with me over the summer. There was stuff going on his personal life that I had connections to and he decided that he couldn't have any contact with me until that was resolved. He made a big point of saying that this wasn't my fault and that I hadn't done anything wrong. I asked for a more in-depth explanation at the time and he wouldn't give one. I seriously thought I'd hear from him by now but it's been complete radio-silence.

I don't think anything any friend has ever done to me has hurt more than this. I emailed him a couple weeks ago explaining how bad this has felt and how I felt like I deserved an explanation. Still nothing. I'm so fucking angry it's not even funny. I keep having dreams involving him and the whole thing just sucks. If he contacted me and apologized and explained why he went about this the way he did then I would love to be friends again despite the fact that I think he's acted selfishly and cruelly. I think the worst part is not hearing from him even after I wrote that email. It just makes it seem like he really doesn't give a shit how I'm feeling or that I'm hurt which seems to indicate that he never really cared about me to begin with.

Sorry. I'm just venting. This whole thing has just made me so sad and angry and ugh.

wow that seems kind of extreme

I'm so sorry ENBB :( I know how horrible it feels to get that sort of treatment. You deserve better.

I KNOW. That's what literally everyone I've talked to (including my therapist) has said. Keep in mind this is someone I've known for approx 17 years. We were in each others weddings. I really did consider him one of my best friends. It's extreme and infuriating and confusing.

barring some sort of "I can't hang out and smoke meth with you anymore" type scenario I'm at a loss for what unrelated-to-you situation could motivate this. but maybe he's just being passive-aggressive and dishonest about his motivations.

CRUT1S YOU RULE PLZ CARRY OUR TORCH FORTHWITH ETC

ALSO CUT YOUR HAIR AND PLZ DON'T TURN INTO KENAN

― mookieproof, Saturday, April 12, 2008 12:54 AM (6 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^ astute advice btw

I don't want to say too much but basically all he told me was that my friendship with this person he was having issues with (to whom he introduced me btw) was problematic and because of that he couldn't have contact with me for a while. I liked the other person fine but offered to never speak to them again if that's what he needed me to do etc. but he still said that his therapist thought it best if he cut contact with me too. Idk the whole thing was just so weird. There HAS to be more to the story. I'm just afraid at this point I'm never going to get it and that makes me really fucking sad.

yeah i'm sorry too
It just makes it seem like he really doesn't give a shit how I'm feeling or that I'm hurt which seems to indicate that he never really cared about me to begin with.
this is total bullshit and i know the feeling and it is not good.

you do deserve better
if he pulls the "i'm an idiot/asshole/bad friend" routine, i think you should accept a return in friendship on a probationary basis. he doesn't get to jerk you around like that!

blaming his therapist is a dick move

outside of shared substance abuse or infidelity/unrequited "feelings," i can't think of any reasons why he would do something like that

^^ agree

he still said that his therapist thought it best if he cut contact with me too

this is ridiculous (xposts)

btw I wrote about it a little upthread but I had a friend do this to me once before. He was very supportive through that whole ordeal and knows how much her doing that hurt me (I've never heard from her since). This whole thing just made me feel the pain of that all over again and I would have hoped he'd realize how unfair this was based on what I went through with that other person. All I wanted was an explanation so that maybe I could understand more.

and if he had harbored feelings for you without telling you and then forced himself to go cold turkey
that's baaaaaaaaaaaaad behavior imo

infidelity/unrequited "feelings,"

I was "friends" with someone with whom he was inappropriately involved and apparently I reminded him too much of her and the temptation to ask about her was too great. Bear in mind I have not seen or even spoken to this other person for months before this and not once since. That seems like such a BS reason that I have wondered if "feelings" for me weren't somehow involved. I agree that the therapist thing is ridic. Even my therapist said that sounded sketchy.

Sorry sorry. The whole thing was complicated and I don't want to say any more about another person's life but, yeah, no drugs or anything like that. I think the whole thing was handled really poorly and I feel like I was treated unfairly but the thing that hurts the worst is that I miss my friend. A lot.

reading that without knowing the circumstances and allowing for the fact that there might be a number of other reasons, the most obvious interpretation that jumps out is that it is strong feelings for/about you which prompted this extreme, and immature or melodramatic behaviour.

wot la lechera said.

but that is exactly what it looks like.

agree
some people can't seem to understand that being friends with a woman isn't like having a supplemental romantic partner

you do deserve better
if he pulls the "i'm an idiot/asshole/bad friend" routine, i think you should accept a return in friendship on a probationary basis. he doesn't get to jerk you around like that!

Yes, absolutely. I will make that really clear. I just really hope he does contact me one day.

this friend is married, right? could it be his wife putting pressure on him to no longer be friends with you bc of feelings?

Yes. That's occurred to me too. Or just that she was v angry because I was still in contact with this other person (who I haven't seen in person in over a year mind you) and didn't want him associating with anyone who had any connections to her though that makes less sense considering that I offered to completely sever any ties I had with her. I think maybe the issues of inappropriate feelings came up with the counselor and maybe it came to light that he had complicated feelings for me and they decided they had worked on things more he not be in contact with anyone for whom is had nothing but strictly platonic feelings. Again, this is only a theory so idk.

his therapist thought it best if he cut contact with me too.

ugh

It just sucks because it doesn't make much sense and I miss him and his laugh a lot.

I did, however, recently make an awesome new friend at work and I like her so much. I was in need of some local female friendships so it's been pretty awesome.

Thank for letting me vent, guys.

that's good!! i wish friendship weren't so fraught for some people but i guess it is

I'm going through something kinda similar but from the other side ... and it's sad and it hurts ... so ... sympathy

ime if someone is married and cuts contact with a friend of the gender they are into, it is because the spouse has basically forced it to happen. i've been the cutter-outer. i hate that i did it, but i have learnt my lesson now.

In some ways, I wonder if it's not BETTER to be cut off completely as opposed to ALMOST cut off, where the other person is hanging onto friendship by the tips of fingernails - giving all indications of giving it up but just not quite. This has happened with someone I thought of, for years and years, as my best friend in the whole world. Granted, we life far apart and she's had some trauma in her life, but sometimes I wish she'd just never respond to my emails, or would just not email me outta the blue to see how I am.

i really have no problem if people feel a friendship 'isn't working' and sort of let it lapse, for lack of a better term. i just don't quite understand the need to say 'i'm not going to talk to you again', like not even in an angry sense but this manner. it seems even more hurtful than the angry friendship breakup.

*a gender, let's not be biphobic

(This is someone who I once could write huge emails to about anything. Now writing her a birthday card or Christmas card is hell because I have no idea what to say.)

xp well it comes from a place of "i can't handle talking to you (for an undisclosed reason)" rather than "i don't have time/energy for you right now or possibly anymore at all"

the former is selfishly motivated imo, the latter more humane
i'd rather be irrelevant than toxic!

I repeatedly told him that his "explanation" didn't makes sense and asked for more information. If his wife was the reason I honestly would have preferred him telling me so rather than just saying "this is just something I have to do for a while. Please don't be mad at me or blame yourself." That's just . . . mean. I guess I just feel like if you're going to do that to me after nearly 20 years of friendship at least explain yourself especially 6 months later when I write you an email telling you how much it's hurt me.

R Cummings - I'm really sorry that you're going through that. It also sounds very hard.

We live in the same part of town ffs. It hasn't happened yet but how weird would/will it be if/when we run into each other!

I guess maybe I felt like I was too upset about this whole thing and it wasn't as big a deal as I was making it out to be. Thanks for making me feel a little better.

i'd be pissed tbh!

he will be divorced in 2 years tops. then he will crawl back. your call thereafter

xps your theory sounds like the most likely, enbb. it's the only one that makes sense in this situation, and maybe it's a marriage therapist, not a regular therapist, suggesting the friendship-ending. idk, i think i'd take a pretty long hard look at exactly why my therapist was telling me to end my friendship with my bestfriend of 17 years, and how much good that was really going to do me.

yeah, the lack of honesty about his feelings/choices is the most perplexing thing to me. Like, my first thought is ... the "explanation" is that it is something that he doesn't really want to do, and there is probably some messy arguments and resentment that brought it on, and he doesn't want to open that can of worms and tell you everything. But, this guy is an adult and presumably not an idiot, so he could come up with something diplomatic and kind.

ENBB, thanks, and I'm sorry for what you're dealing with too. The vexed spouse thing - I've been there too.

It's less painful than it used to be though, which I attribute to having made other close friends over the past few years.

i think about this sort of thing literally every day because my brother cut himself off from my family years ago without any explanation & i don't know if i'll ever have the chance to see him again. i really hope your friend comes around, E. <3

sorry ENBB, this really sucks.

i'm so tempted to speculate that there's something super serious underlying this, but it's just as likely if not more that it's something moderately serious and he's handling it in a really cheap and bullshitty way

Justine I think you're very otm and sarahell - you too. It's just sad.

Thanks, Goole. Yeah, idk. Maybe I'll find out one day.

Aw man, crut. I'm sorry. Thank you. <3

if was going to go to the trouble of flat-out telling you you couldn't be friends anymore, he should have told you the full story instead of half-assing it. he clearly acknowledged it wasn't your fault, so the very least he owed you was closure.

i think my strong negative reaction to this type of behavior is partly based in my distaste for melodrama. everyone's got a different threshold, but mine is very low. i do hope it all works out for you ENBB! actively losing friends is so much worse than losing them passively, through attrition or w/e

yeah melodrama is dreadful.

I don't think anything any friend has ever done to me has hurt more than this. I emailed him a couple weeks ago explaining how bad this has felt and how I felt like I deserved an explanation. Still nothing. I'm so fucking angry it's not even funny. I keep having dreams involving him and the whole thing just sucks. If he contacted me and apologized and explained why he went about this the way he did then I would love to be friends again despite the fact that I think he's acted selfishly and cruelly. I think the worst part is not hearing from him even after I wrote that email. It just makes it seem like he really doesn't give a shit how I'm feeling or that I'm hurt which seems to indicate that he never really cared about me to begin with.

i have gone through something like this, on the side of the (your) friend, so on his behalf i have to say, he could easily have cared a lot, but not known how to repair things. i had a pretty good friendship, sort of a professional/intellectual one, as those things go, that went bad when our lives diverged and i was in a very vulnerable and dependent position (unemployed at the time), and he got so caught up in his own life that he effectively neglected me for months, in the wake of a time when i had particularly wanted his friendship. i just sat with my feelings, got bitter, resentful, etc., all while knowing that a lot of the fault was mine (even though we never really had a really emotionally open friendship where i could have just come out and been like, you hurt my feelings etc) but not knowing how to get over that. so when there was an opportunity to make moves toward restoring things, i couldn't do it; he was so oblivious that it just infuriated me and i wasn't able to bring the appropriate sense of perspective and proportion to the matter. i was eventually able to let him know that i felt i'd been wronged, and that i was not happy, but that hasn't permitted me to really try to explain things to him. in a way i feel like an idiot, because i know so much of it was on my side, just feelings i failed to deal with appropriately, but now that that is so, it doesn't seem like such a simple matter to set right. it's less painful just to let it be. so we haven't exchanged any words in months, or really talked at all in a couple years or more.

i don't know the specifics of your friendship, but i do want to say, i think it may be hasty to suppose that it's all about not being respected, not being given what you're owed if the friendship was really important. since friendships involve our making ourselves emotionally vulnerable to our friends, i would wonder (ESPECIALLY if it's dudes) whether it's not more a matter of this being too hard for your friend to deal with.

it's hard to tell someone your relationship is over.

e the feelings/spouse thing had def occurred based on previous descriptions of this from you, but even as an explanation for behaviour its not any excuse for lack of explanation or honesty and it sucks, def

Oh yeah I think I posted on the borad thread when this first happen but I forgot. Life, man.

It just makes it seem like he really doesn't give a shit how I'm feeling or that I'm hurt

Some people are very, very inept at friendship and their insecurity around others stymies them from doing anything at all when they get into an awkward situation. Not sure if this is the case here, but it happens often enough to mention it.

>> Benson and the Jets (ENBB)
Just wanted to say I read your original post, and I identify - you're not alone. I (had - so hard to type) a really close friend from college/post-college that lives in same city as I do that did this to me and another close friend (former '3 muskateer' group of friends) and we're just super sad and still in grief since we have had 'radio silence' for close to two years now. It sucks. I, too, have dreams/nightmares about the former close close friend, and just can't figure out what/why/how/etc. went wrong. The feelings that accompany are some of the saddest I've ever had. I totally empathize.

I think more than anything it's a sign that your friendship was a lot more asymmetrical than you thought? It's usually more evident in those weird relationship break-ups where you figure out one person has been on the way out for a while and you've been getting more invested.

You can have shared experiences, but sometimes the friendship or relationship you thought you had meant something very different to the other person and when that becomes evident, it's really hard to understand or reconcile.

On a more upbeat note, completely cutting off an ex of mine years ago was probably the best decision I've ever made

x-post - Oh, thank you for saying that. I'm sorry that you went through something similar.

The dreams are the weirdest because I can't help them and I always feel so strange when I wake up.

I had dreams like that for ages after a couple falling outs (fallings out?) with people, a girl who I was best friends with and we quickly drifted apart, and a bf I never properly broke up with and he snubbed me for a couple years after. They were always really weird and affecting and difficult to deal with when waking up. Unfortunately in my case it took reconnecting with the individuals in question to make the dreams stop :/ I hope yours don't persist and that you can eventually get some closure about why your friend is being weird and non-communicative.

Read most of this thread just now, and, MAN, so much of this is familiar to me.

I had a tight group of bros in college, and if you'd asked me when I was 22 I would've sworn we'd have ALWAYS been tight bros. But nah. With one exception, there was no formal cutting off, just major, major drift and people living in different places, to the point where I only talk to two guys from the group a few times a year - but those are great talks.

i think about this sort of thing literally every day because my brother cut himself off from my family years ago without any explanation & i don't know if i'll ever have the chance to see him again. i really hope your friend comes around, E. <3

― example (crüt), Monday, January 12, 2015 12:41 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

as someone who has done this, just consider that 1) he doesn't owe you an explanation, 2) while i am sure it is reflective of your positive feelings for him and sorrow etc, language like "i don't know if i'll ever have the chance to see him again" is passive-aggressive and possibly symptomatic of a 3) toxic family situation, which are a lot more prevalent than people want to admit, and it isn't the fault of the person who wants to remove themselves from the toxic dynamic for the rupture. leaving one's family completely is not an easy thing to do, it takes resolve and a clear comprehension of why in order to do it and move forward, and if you are bewildered by it, there is prob. a reason you should be prepared to respect if at some point you are ready to see and confront it.

as far as doing this with friends, it sucks, maybe some day you'll understand why, maybe not.

love you matt, but i'm going to ignore that b/c you don't know me or my family or my brother

ok

maybe I am passive aggressive about it because the only other way i can handle it is by screaming and crying and punching

that is a much better way imo, as long as you're punching a pillow or something

my father's parents cut off communication with him 25 years ago in response to his unwillingness to allow them to exert control over his life (specifically as to how i was raised). he humbled himself to them on numerous occasions and was afforded the opportunity to return to them if he left the family (i.e. my sisters, mother, and me). he declined. his father passed last year, and we don't know if his mother or brother are still alive.

With respect - i am very sensitive to the notion that the one(s) who cut(s) themselves free of the family has some appropriate reason for doing so. i do not believe it is always the case and i do not believe it is really appropriate for strangers on the internet to speculate that such a case exists

ok, i hear that and, crut, i'm sorry for overstepping.

nah man it's ok, i feel you. i just don't think my brother's situation is the same as your situation. but who knows. all i know is my mom can't sleep at night because she will probably never see her first born son again and she is heartbroken. and i am heartbroken and wish we did have an explanation, even if he doesn't owe us one.

yeah :(

this is all so sad.
while we're sharing, my grandma cut me out of her life when i was 15 because she claimed that she didn't like the way i brought a friend to a family function -- she thought family functions were for family only.
she did the same thing to my mom when i was 6 mo old bc she didn't like that my mom went back to work (they eventually mended their relationship, we did not)

as the cut-off one, i felt bereft of my grandma a lot but i also didn't really want to have anything to do with someone who would get so pissed about something so inconsequential. people like that scare me to this day.

you otm

feel incredibly lucky to have kept my childhood friends and all my brothers still in my life (daily contact the norm). the latter was touch and go for a lot of my teenage years/twenties but we're good now. me and herself were cut out of our college group when we started dating we were v amused by the process as it only rly accelerated what we'd figured ourselves would be the eventuality.

feel like i ve talked enough/too much about my mum on ilx but def feel matt, times when you gotta go you gotta go and there can't be any accounting for what's owed or what others feel they have coming to them after a really intense breakaway.

LL were you in the mafia when you were a kid?!?

when i've dealt with this (limited experience) it's been pretty cold and harsh but fairly quickly i've felt glad to have someone who'd behave like that far away from me. but to be fair i've only dealt with it w/friends, and not my closest ones and not with family.

Granny Nonna leaving my little pony heads in your bed when you were a bambina

Xp

xp i'm not allowed to talk about that

times when you gotta go you gotta go and there can't be any accounting for what's owed or what others feel they have coming to them after a really intense breakaway.

I just wanna be clear that I agree w/this & absolutely want everyone to do what they need to to be happy/free/functioning

I just wanna be clear that I agree w/this & absolutely want everyone to do what they need to to be happy/free/functioning

ah man crut that wasn't in any way a swipe at you, you know

like I can't imagine being put in yr shoes.....

more stuff while we're sharing: A couple years ago an aunt of mine who was really close to my mom randomly decided to cut her out. She sent my mom a text saying she needed to 'reevaluate the friendship' and then deleted her from Facebook and stopped talking to her. She didn't explain to anyone why she made the decision (and it was the second time in about five years she'd done this). My mom alternated between despairing about it and brushing it off but I think she was always confused by and sad for it.

In April my mom suffered brutal injuries that put her in a coma. My aunt didn't visit. She very hesitantly came to the funeral (I think my cousin pretty much forced her), took her seat just as it was about to start, and left as soon as it finished.

My aunt messaged me on Facebook a couple months after that and was very nice about things and offered support etc. I should add that in the entire time she boycotted my mom, she still spoke to me and my brother. I forgive her for her weirdness towards my mom -- I'm sure my mom would have extended forgiveness too and would be glad to know that I've my aunt's support this last year.

I still feel really sad on my mom's behalf that my aunt cut her out inexplicably... but I also think that my aunt must feel pretty horrendous about having turned her back on my mom when there's now no chance for reconciliation.

And somewhat related to that, my dad and I have been cut out of each other's lives since early November, aside from a brief 'merry christmas' text. Not talking to him has taken so much stress out of my life it's unbelievable.

sheesh ss, brutal year, hope you're better on the other side tho. been far too long, hope other things are going swimmingly

meanwhile,

was afforded the opportunity to return to them if he left the family (i.e. my sisters, mother, and me)

this is perhaps inside the top 10 most insane things i have read on this website

Yeah, that's fucking crazy. "We don't approve of the way you're raising your children, but if you abandon them, we'll consider letting you back into the fold." Can't even imagine what that must feel like.

A couple years ago an aunt of mine who was really close to my mom randomly decided to cut her out.

This happened with my mum and her sister several years ago (I guess they weren't very close before that but they were close enough that my mum would help my aunt find jobs where she was working and we would see her and my cousins round my grandma's house). To the extent that if my mum bumps into my aunt and her family my aunt will completely ignore my mum even while her family say hello to her. No reason was ever given for this either. My grandma had a theory about why this might have happened but if it's true it's completely ridiculous.

My family is pretty messed up though. My grandma has 4 children and only my mum and her brother are in regular contact with her. Of my mum's 2 sisters, the aunt above has limited contact and the other sister has no contact at all. They all live in the same town except my uncle.

I've gotten into it a bit on the family problems thread, but I'm estranged, shall we say, from my biological father and his entire family except for one cousin with whom I maintain contact mostly via twitter. My paternal grandmother died last year, and my aunts made some very boundary defying attempts to get in touch with me to get me to come visit one last time, come to the funeral, reconnect, do something, all of which I ignored completely. I have really excellent reasons for living a happy life without these dysfunctional bozos in it in any way, but reading some of these posts I wonder if they are puzzled and hurt at my lack of connection.

Not that any of you or any of your families are dysfunctional bozos. Just thinking about different these actions look from different angles.

nb I chose not to visit my dying grandmother or go to her funeral, which I envision as being held in the snake room from Raiders of the Lost Ark, if that gives you an idea of what this branch of the family is like, because the last time I saw her I was 11, and the one time I tried to reconnect with her when I was about 22, she ignored me but provided my contact information to some of my father's other children who then proceeded to attempt daytime talk show style long-lost-half-sibling reunions, which let's just say did not work out the way anybody had hoped. Until my grandmother turned 90 and decided she needed to gather all of her random grandchildren at her bedside for a little deathbed absolution, she had no use for me whatsoever. I sincerely hope she died peacefully surrounded by people who loved her, but there was no reason in the world for me to be among them. And that's just the reason why I didn't respond, not even the excellent reasons why I removed myself from the family altogether. But I can absolutely see them being completely clueless about why that happened.

talked to my (half-) sister for the first time in 18-19 years yesterday

Whoa. How did that go?

my mother railroaded me when i was back in nz last august - secretly organized a family lunch with my older brother who i cut out about 14 years ago. i just ignored him the whole time (i did say hello after my mother repeatedly kicked me, but that was it), and it's the first time in my life i've ever seen the asshole look awkward and uncomfortable. not gonna lie, it was pretty satisfying.

Y'all are reminding me that sometimes families are bullshit

I guess I've been the cutter, but in one case it was at least in part due to being the cuttee for years. My friend G never lifted a finger to maintain what I thought was a pretty good friendship. I would call or email him and arrange to visit, we'd have a great time at concerts/movies/restaurants... I'd go home, and then hear nothing for months until I made the next overture, repeat occasionally for years. Finally, from a mixture of pride and misery, I quit contacting him, and it's been 6 or 7 years I guess. Maybe he thinks I'm mad at him. He could find out if he wanted. Maybe he's glad I finally quit pestering him. I could find out if I wanted.

ENBB - a very similar thing happened to me a few years ago, except the friend (at the time my BEST friend) gave no explanation for the cut contact. Eventually I tearfully confronted him and he refused to engage me about it even then, but later texted my BOYFRIEND (instead of me) and asked him to tell me that he would like to talk to me sometime in depth/at length? It was very, very weird. He never did contact me again, and has never spoken to me again at all tbh. He did hand deliver a wedding present for us to Andy (never spoke to me). That was my last "contact" with him. NO THANK-YOU NOTE FOR YOU, DUDE

That said, I still get very sad about it sometimes.

people have weird internal lives and I don't know what the hell they are thinking

fuck em imo. i mean it took me probably 3 years to get to that point but fuck em. not trying to beg for a crumb of friendship from someone who obv doesnt give a fuck about me

http://d1o2xrel38nv1n.cloudfront.net/files/2013/05/60712-Mad-men-Peggy-I-dont-care-gif-uohc.gif

https://41.media.tumblr.com/1e310e72e2311417dd169e91e9eaea8a/tumblr_n0vyfif7Md1qb5yh8o1_500.png

Sorry. I love that one.

aw i cant see it at work

those are both among my fave images

haha is that from Bones?

what are you talking about?

I suddenly feel really old and think that perhaps sleeve has no awareness of the x-files

i've never watched the x-files but i assumed that was what it was from

Yes, X-files, you ding dongs.

I am sorry crut, but... I think we need to consciously cut each other out

oh right, it's been a long time

roxy otm. gif otm.

This has to be a common occurrence. Dad was married in the 80s to a woman with two kids. For 10 years, my blood-sister and I would visit every weekend and have these temporary siblings. My step-brother was a little older, and he got me into rap, taught me a few breakdancing moves. I've talked before about how he and I would explore the entire damn suburb via the drainage tunnels. We'd go on vacations together. We had bunk beds. My dad worked on the weekends, so even my step-mom and I got close. She had a middle child about my age who had died from crib death.

Then around 1990, they got divorced. And that was that. Step-bro wrote me a letter from Operation Desert Storm. Saw step-sis at a 20-and-under juice nightclub before my senior year. Haven't seen my step-mom since she dropped off something for my blood-sister at my mom's house (even step-mom and real-mom got along ok) and said "It'll be ok, I'll see you soon."

I don't miss them terribly or anything. I do have this dream about once every other month where I'm walking around their house alone when all of a sudden someone turns on a light and says something.

people have weird internal lives and I don't know what the hell they are thinking

― valleys of your mind (mh), Tuesday, January 13, 2015 3:49 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idontcare.gif is what im trying to cultivate. i obv still do care!

Rox - that's so weird! Yeah, I don't really get it or understand people either. I'm just really hurt. I'm also trying to cultivate the I don't care attitude but I do care, a lot, and it's just really hard.

Yeah I am dealing with a similar thing and I go back and forth between "okay, your loss" and "omg I miss you". It's like, if you are fine with hurting me on purpose just because I apparently hurt you by accident (?) then you are kind of a mean person.

But but but! I am not even sure that's what's happening, because I'm not being given the opportunity to discuss it, so maybe something else is up and I don't know about it??? What the hell, just talk to me!

this is illuminating what i have believe (and have learned the hard way) to be one of life's sad facts: not a lot of people know how to/will take the time and effort to sustain a longterm close friendship

:(

I'm not talking abt ppl itt obvs

Some longterm close friendships need cultivation and some dont and if you're lucky enough to have enough of the latter it's probably a skillset you haven't had to acquire or interrogate yr self about I guess

it's incredibly easy to let relationships fall away, too

Yep La Lechera, I am (I think) being cut out because over about an 18 month period I didn't put much/any effort to sustaining this friendship. There were outside reasons, and it was not a conscious thing. But I can definitely see how it all just seemed like the effort was one-sided to her and I feel so, so bad.

I have a few friends I see on a very sporadic basis, to the extent a year or two can go by, but we're able to pick up where we left off when we do have the chance to hang out. But having that kind of relationship has to have some depth.

yeah same here, though this thread is making me feel worried/guilty about being a shit friend, tbh :|

(not blaming anyone itt!! Just realising I dont make anywhere near enough effort at things)

IMO you shouldn't feel guilty for just not keeping in touch or letting friendships fizzle out. not talking isn't the same as "not talking," you know?

Sometimes it's hard to know from the outside which one's happening.

and this is why people need to learn how to effectively communicate with each other
seriously
it's a really good skill to have

yet elusive!!

and like one persons communicating may not be what works for the other (if that can then be called communicating), I'm not sure you learn a skill and then boom on you get with people.

duh
give me some credit

ha no shade no shade

I'm seriously thinking of writing her a letter - not accusing or being confrontational, but something like "look, I'm writing this because I care about you, let's just drop all ties, and have a good life."

Doing this right now.

godspeed

I love people. I blocked her on Facebook and IG and didn’t block her on my iPhone because I don’t have her number and wouldn’t have thought to anyway because we haven’t texted or had a phone call in years, and she fucking sends me a message there after I told her I was done. People are idiots. Fuck her.

After I saw the first few words I stopped reading, responded, and hit block. I’m going to delete the message without reading all of it. If she’s not going to respect my boundaries, she can burn in hell. Also, I specifically told her why I was doing what I was doing unlike what some people have done to ILXORs upthread. (Or in another thread. Some thread. Maybe more than one.)

Anyway, I had to do some friend house cleaning today, and I did. Don’t interact with people who disrespect you.

That’s my free advice.

Also, don’t be friends with people who are stupid.

I’m not even upset about this and don’t need advice or help. It’s done. I guess I just wanted to post about it.

sounds like you did it right

How do you stop being angry about this??? I just . . . still no response and, tbh, the lack of response is making me think he's a bigger dick than I did before. I was hurt before now I'm fucking pissed off. I mean we were really good friends for over 15 years. I was a "groomswoman" in his wedding. It just fucking sucks. I unfriended him on FB but we have like 20 mutual friends and I see him comment on shit and I know he sees me and I really just want to be like, "WHY ARE YOU BEING A TOTAL CUNT?".

Sorry. I'm real mad.

And it sorta takes a lot to make me mad.

I know being told you just gotta let this one go sucks but its for yr own good to just let this one go

I know. It just really fucking sucks.

if you care, let him go, and if it's meant to be he will wander back

if you care, let him go, he might wander onto a busy road

Can you block him on Facebook? Then you can't see each other, which will probably be good for your mental health.

Also, I think anger is very important. Like, you need the anger to burn away all of the hurt.

agree
it takes a lot to make me mad too, but when i do, the fire is self-sustaining and usually cauterizes the emotional wound nicely

Yeah, I can but I'm being stubborn. Somehow it seems in my head like my unfriending but not blocking is somehow me being like oh look how totally over this whole thing and not upset I am by seeing you on here even though that's obviously not the case. Yeah, I know. I will eventually. It's just too sad right now.

anger isnt really ever a healthy emotion ime but obv depending on person and circumstance the mmv

depends on what kind it is
if it's like an inflammation no
if it's purging something, it's ok
ime

ya ya def

I mean for me personally but I'm about as far from the repressive type as you get which prob has a lot to do with it...

You’re cooler than him. Trust.

Well, duh.

;)

realize other people itt are probably giving sage advice but honestly if i were in your position i wouldn't be able to resist just going to his house, knocking on the door, and screaming in his face when he opens it

I wound up not writing the letter - will instead ignore emails and let things wind themselves down that way.

realize other people itt are probably giving sage advice but honestly if i were in your position i wouldn't be able to resist just going to his house, knocking on the door, and screaming in his face when he opens it

lol this was pretty much what i was going to post, except i'd send a threatening fb message first - TELL ME EVERYTHING OR I WILL BANG ON YOUR DOOR ALL NIGHT OR COME TO YOUR PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT

Trust me I've thought about it. lol.

Nowhere near as fraught a situation as others itt but a kind of gentle and happy example of cutting someone out of my life:

I follow someone on twitter because I know her IRL and figured we were, if not friends friends, then definitely friends with the same people and also at least two people who enjoy each other's company on the occasion we are together. But even though she's perfectly lovely in person, her twitter persona grates on me to no end*. (eg I bitched previously on ILX about her moving to NYC and then tweeting for like two weeks about how hungry she was all the time because she didn't know where/how to obtain food. In NYC.) I think about unfollowing her a lot but feel like I shouldn't because we are "friends." Well I was getting super annoyed with her on twitter last night because she was tweeting about how, based on one Yelp review, Chicago doesn't understand goths (after moving to NYC she re-embraced her gothy past and decided she was not only goth, but the gothest) and assuming that people at 80s night at a dance club in Chicago confused Peter Schilling's Major Tom with A Space Odyssey because there's no other explanation for why people would be so excited to hear that song and it suddenly hit me!

She's in Chicago! And she did not make any effort whatsoever to contact me! Like not even a "We're going to be in town but we'll be super busy so I don't know if we can meet up but just in case we can grab lunch I thought I'd email you"! Which means she probably doesn't like me much either! And that means I have no social media obligations to uphold here! I can UNFOLLOW HER ON TWITTER!

*she's a minor internet personality who writes for a bunch of different websites so she tweets A LOT to maintain her brand or whatever, I guess.

Pfft. So many reasons to be excited to hear Peter Schilling's "Major Tom". If that is what she was saying there weren't any of.

The 'you know they're in town and they didn't even tell you' can be a watershed moment for sure. I only allow for this in the case of my one friend who is legit famous anyone else does it, it means we are just acquaintances.

otm

Pfft. So many reasons to be excited to hear Peter Schilling's "Major Tom". If that is what she was saying there weren't any of.

― Abraham raves doubtlessly (a passing spacecadet), Friday, July 17, 2015 3:27 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I know, right? I couldn't tell if she was saying that the people at this club shouldn't have known the song because it was too obscure (and so were under a group delusion that it was another song?) or that nobody should get that excited about the song, period. Either way, it's a great song, but I'm probably just saying that because I live in Chicago (gross).

people of Chicago guilty of much greater sins tbh

Watch it, buddy. I'm in the mood to unfollow people on Twitter.

*tweets furiously*

Major Tom is a totally famous song ffs it is so not obscure

Nobody knows the name 'Peter schilling' maybe

In the process of cutting out an old semi-close friend, who I've rented office space with, after he began intentionally sabotaging the space to try and make the rest of us quit the place, stopped paying his part of the rent, and then became hysterical when we threw him out. Basically he is having a breakdown, but won't admit it, instead goes around town telling acquaintances that we've stolen his space from him.

Long trail of doing this. It does add up over time.

in what way?

wouldnt it subtract down?

Yes--wrong math term. I meant that it adds up in the sense of people who are no longer part of your life. You've got x number of people you can call up to go see a movie when you're 27, fewer when you're 37, fewer etc. Over time, it adds up/subtracts down.

Yet, that happens whether you intentionally cut people out of your life or not. Wouldn't you rather have the choice of who's left?

So weird this gets bumped. I'm regretfully in the process of doing this to someone.

yeah but attrition isn't the same thing as deliberately cutting people out of your life

oops that was xp

A number of the people who disappeared on me do fall under the category of cutting out.

I don't want to make too big a deal out of this. If there's good reason, cut them out. With me, it was often a case of a friendship that was dying anyway, that didn't seem worth saving even before whatever triggered the final break. I'd probably make the same decisions again. All I'm saying is that when you get to be my age, you look back and realize it does add up.

i'm almost too good at doing this. it makes me wonder if there's actually something wrong with me? i just find it so easy to ghost people once i realize that aren't bringing anything positive to my life.

and yes, that does mean i have fewer friends at 35, and it also means the older i get the more cautious i am about making new connections. but the friends i do have are amazing people, they're family, and i love them so much. many of them i don't get to see or even really talk to for months or even years at a time. but every time i get sad about the lack of people in my life that are accessible (i.e. live in my area), i try to remember that quality is superior to quantity.

I'm a Cancer, and my sense of loyalty is killing me during this process. I also know I'll backtrack and have to be forgiven when I, right now, feel totally justified in doing this.

i try to remember that quality is superior to quantity.

No one would argue with that. Unfortunately, in my situation, what quality friends remain are all married with families. Sometimes I wish I had some quantity to fall back on.

eh. never forget, we all die alone

i was on the receiving end of this recently---and to my mind, somewhat confusingly---and i can assure you that it feels completely awful

So this dude I've been cutting out had some stuff at our office space, and wanted to get it. Tried to arrange it, but the facebook-thread of him asking for it devolved into him yelling lies and abuse at us. Once again. Then all of a sudden he just gets another guy, whom he'd given a key, to let him in, and rips the place. Found out today he even stole a book of mine. Fucking asshole.

https://www.the-pool.com/life/life-honestly/2015/25/sali-hughes-on-shedding-friends

some of my best friends I've only gotten to know this past two years...you can add as well as subtract even as a decrepit 30+

i'm a bit like justin3, i have ghosted quite a few ppl

i think part of it was after I immigrated i went through a period of thinking "any friend is a good friend" bcz it was so hard for me to make new friends as an adult - all my friends back home in Oz I'd gained over 20+ years

But then I was like, well half these ppl are kinda shit/making me miserable, and i figured who cares if i only have a few friends - i'd rather have a few good quality friends than put up with stupid bullshit

my mum had a corny saying:
true friends are like diamonds
precious & rare
false friends are like autumn leaves
found everywhere

if darragh is decrepit then I'm a goner

Making new friends is another thread! It's an art imo. Maybe a lost one but some things about meeting new ppl after 30 don't change.

like anything else it's a lot less intense than when I was sixteen but yeah you're right- another thread may be wiser

rip mh

I'm doing a *lot* of inadvertent ghosting lately (cf the post I made on FB the other day, cos this is weighing heavily on me at present).

It just sort of snowballs, like you think "i havent emailed this person in months/I didnt go to their last 2 parties/they probably think I'm a shitty flake now and dont WANT to see me anyway".

Having a sudden "family" also means I'm adjusting to part time being a sort of parent with no free time, and I'm not good at pacing my (increasinly limited) energy and positivity as a result.

I mean, one of my bandmates defriended me on FB a while back after also suddenly ceasing any jams or contact about the band. He's denied defriending me (which is fucked up - its right there on the page! It doesnt happen by mistake!) but I think he's basically Lou Barlowed me. Meh whatever.

Jerky ex best friend update: still fucking nothing and it's been over a year. I still have no idea what the real reason behind all this was and I think now more than ever that the way he handled this was appalling and just plain cruel. That said, I'd forgive him in an instant if he contacted me with an apology and an explanation.

I totally get how you must feel :( So frustrating.

Months ago, my best friend of 30 years changed his profile picture on Facebook to a picture of Eve Plumb and i wrote something like: You Wish! and he unfriended me and I haven't had any contact with him since.

...

Xpost that's insane!

weird

I'm sorry u lost a pal but that's a great story.

things seem to be getting pared down to me and the cat, whether by choice or neglect or other

sorry about eve plumb!

found out through only remaining mutual friend that a dude i cut out of my life years ago because he is a dickhole (was explicit to the ex-friend about this) and dont think about much/at all still apparently talks about me a lot to the only remaining mutual friend? like, a lot, as if we are still friends. it feels...weird, but also kinda funny because it is perfectly emblematic of what a loser he is

also a friend i cut outta my life because he was gross and misogynistic has had some kinda breakthrough about it recently and wants to be friends again as a result - which its' great that he's changed! but i kinda just feel like, why bother now at this point reconnecting? like, what are you bringing to my life? doing fine without your friendship. feel like it is mostly just that he wants me to "sign off" on him, and i have no time for issuing blessings atm

Somehow Facebook + NYT know I'm doing this right now.

I only knowingly cut off one friend. We weren't ever that close, and he was a jerk a good portion of the time. I actually kept it up much longer than I wanted to. I'm pretty sure I was his only friend at the time, so I felt it would be shitty to just end it. I was 20 when I ended it; I'm 36 now, and I realize life is too short for that shit.

I only have a few close friends now, all of whom are married (I'm single atm). If any of them were to cut me off I'd be an emotional wreck for years, so I'm crushed by many of this thread's posts.

you just gotta do this sometimes. it's a big world. i probably advise other people to do this more often than i should. though.
https://31.media.tumblr.com/396e336b48323bf111527329d414521f/tumblr_n4ttusukhh1ta3x8fo1_400.gif

cutting people completely out of your life

Pretty much exactly 10 years later, he emailed me. To say he is OK and hopes I am but he shouldn't be writing me and we still can't talk.

._.

Wow way to dredge things up for you instead of just letting things stand, if there isn’t going to be any change to the situation. What a selfish prick.

jeez that's lame as hell

i posted on the 77 "what's happening now" thread about a friend of about 15 years who cut me off last month because i wasn't quick to respond to a text about fantasy baseball. he had a tantrum and called me a couple names and then has been radio silent since. i couldn't do anything more than send a text offering an explanation that i was kind of busy and spread thin, without really apologizing because i don't entertain people getting dramatic over allegedly broken social decorum anymore and a delayed response on a text is not the same thing as staring at someone with blank disinterest, some folks still don't get that. plus i've been dealing with more serious private shit in recent times and my focus is therefore more hazy. but fuck it, i'm not explaining that to him. good riddance tbh.

That seems so weird and extreme! I'm sorry though. It is never a fun experience. That reaction really seems disproportionate. O, you might have worked this out but this is the person we both know irl. Anyway full disclosure - I messaged him on linkedin about a month ago because I saw he had viewed my profile and I missed him. I just checked and before that I last messaged him in 2019. He didn't respond to that and I didn't expect a response to this. When I saw the email I got so excited only to see that we still can't talk. It is what it is but it sucks and I hate it.

yeah it was really extreme. he seems like an angry guy in a lot of ways, which was another reason it might be good riddance and another reason i replied calmly.

i thought it might be that person but didn't want to pry about it. i'm vv sorry that occurred.

lol if my close friends got mad every time we didn’t immediately respond to a non-emergency communication, we’d have no friends. My bff and I have been exchanging “yeah I’ll call you this weekend” messages back and forth for several months and still haven’t gotten around to talking.

it's very disorienting to be thrown into a situation where people who were part of your life are suddenly completely and totally gone. when the band i had been playing with for 3 years sent me a text last monday cold-dumping me with no prior discussion or warning, i was stunned. the band shaped hole in my life will hopefully close up before too long, though it remains perplexing to me how people can decide to excommunicate someone completely (I haven't heard from 2/3 of them at all! not even a "thanks" or "no hard feelings" however insincere).

with a little more thought, it feels like a blessing in disguise for me -- i have no idea what they will go on to do (or not do since they removed their drummer) and it's no longer any of my concern. bye!

i do not f/w people who guilt trip about response times (or anything tbh)
maybe i failed to read some signs or properly interpret a silent treatment i didn't realize i was receiving; ultimately, i think when people can't communicate in a mature fashion, they resort to these controlling and unsavory tactics.

LL, this reminds me slightly of how one of my favorite bands broke up (a noise trio I won’t name): the drummer texted the other two saying he just didn’t want to do it anymore. And that was that - a decade or so of amazing explosions ended in a text.

They put out their last full length a year or two after that, resisting the urge to call it “Break Up By Text Message”.

full disclosure - I messaged him on linkedin about a month ago because I saw he had viewed my profile and I missed him. I just checked and before that I last messaged him in 2019. He didn't respond to that and I didn't expect a response to this.

no offense but as someone (weirdly!) who has actually met this dude, you are just fucking with him

he had a crush on you, which you egged on because you enjoyed it, and he cut it off to save his marriage. you may miss him as your friend but you have no respect for him, and you have absolutely no right to complain about it as if you've been done wrong

you succeeded! he finally responded! now fucking leave him alone unless you're willing to back it up by fulfilling his dreams, which you aren't

Wow.

Thanks for the hot take and extremely hostile post! Clearly you are an expert after meeting someone once for two hours max iirc but you are wrong here. I don't consider messaging someone once every 5 years fucking with them. I think ending a 15 year friendship with absolutely zero explanation but then proceeding to look at the person's linkedin profile every two-three weeks for the next TEN YEARS is the fucking with part and if you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. Also, and I sorta thought this was clear though I guess it wasn't, but my main issue wasn't even the friendship ending (tho obv I have feelings about that) it was the way in which it was handled.

Mookie wtf man

hi -- i very much regret certain word choices and the overly hostile tone. probably should have written it privately or simply not at all. honestly sorry about that!

but i don't think i was wrong

So you wish you had called me a piece of shit in less hostile tone? Thanks. You can think you're right. I don't. We can disagree and end whatever this was because I'm too angry to discuss it rationally any further.

I have rarely deliberately cut people out of my life, because I am endlessly forgiving and carrying grudges makes me feel horrendous. The one exception has been a cousin with whom I was extremely close during childhood through early adulthood; we started to drift at some point, and then many years later I learned that he had been exceptionally abusive to another family member. I saw him briefly after his mother died (he refused to come up for her death; I was there instead) and it was chilly, and then never heard from him again, likely because he assumed (correctly) that I'd learned about his past abuses.

My entire paternal family has cut me out over politics and facebook. I used to feel bad about this but they are frankly horrible people.

The best man at my wedding has decided not to speak to me; we were very close for a number of years, but he was an active alcoholic who periodically went on the attack for no reason. He has sobered up and is better, and we were again on speaking terms until I learned he came to town and didn't contact me and also told mutual friends not to tell me he was here. Bizarrely he requested to follow me on instagram several months ago; I let him but didn't follow back or engage with him in any way and then he unfollowed after a while. This is just narcissistic dumb behavior and I've come to accept that I don't want people like that in my life going foward.

xp ok

agree with akm

I'm old and can remember many times when I deliberately cut people out of my life. Mostly I've regretted it, with friends who offended me (I now see the offending incidents as so ridiculous), and when I was in love with someone who was well meaning but who could not return my affection because it was too painful. But also friendships that ended because someone was in love with me and I couldn't return their affection. I wish I could repair those relationships. I feel shitty about all of them

But not for most. In my 20s and 30s and even into my 40s I was trying to understand my friendships, and most of the time when a friendship ended I was thinking 'this is not a good person' and was happy to see the end of it. But also anyone who was addicted to too much drama in a personal relationship was not for me and I steered clear

I think you have to trust those instincts

Just had to do this with an old college friend, a deeply unhappy and self-righteous person, estranged from her family and most of our mutuals acquaintances, and prone to sending wildly out of pocket text messages. (Our last big fight included her saying "I'm ashamed to know you"; this one ended with her wishing death on my cat.)

We used to have a lot of shared musical and literary tastes, which is why we were friends (that, along with an unrequited crush I had on her). But somewhere along the way, she turned into an anti-woke complainer who calls me up to rant about people on Goodreads giving high ratings to a book just because the author is a disabled queer Black feminist. Her world seems to get smaller and more hateful each day, while I have been on the opposite journey.

Fittingly, the conversation that led to me blocking her number began with her gushing about Lauren Oyler, another person who spends too much of her time thinking about Goodreads. (To be clear, any amount of time is too much.)

Whatever, they deserve each other.

I cut someone out of my life maybe 6-7 years ago because she got super mad that my best friend of 20 years, who lived out of town, came into town and we went out for the night without her. I had introduced the two of them shortly after meeting her 5 years before.

I have her blocked on everything. I guess she is a newspaper obituary reader (friend thinks she has a Google alert on me) because when my Grandma died in December, within a day of the online posting there was a note saying she was sorry to hear of my Grandma’s (& Dad’s, mentioned as predeceased) passing. Then she signed it as just two initials so I could never be totally sure.

I was weirded out but thought the message was sweet enough - hate the just vague enough initials bit - the other friend is less charitable and was very much “why is she so fucking obsessed with you and weird about it”

Also for those who know my Twitter username etc is Lexy + dee to stand in for my D last name.. (now stee for my married S last name..) and a while after we met she, also an LD named woman, changed hers to the same format. Why so fucking weird LD

She can change her name but she can’t grow an extra foot tall

I have probably been cut out of former friends’ lives but if so, they are people I had already drifted away from either geographically or in terms of interests or politics and hadn’t even thought about them much… As in, if they have blocked me, I wouldn’t notice…

Oh wait! There was this chick Lori… 24 years ago who I had been good friends with and she sent me this really nasty email saying how I and partner were horrible and she can’t be friends with me or him anymore… I kept my distance from her after that, then she moved away about a year later … about 8 years ago she moves back and just acted like that never happened… I am nice to her but I definitely didn’t feel like rekindling that bff friendship we had before

And because there’s a l cohen thread in SNA, I remember hearing Chelsea Hotel in my late teens, and struggling to understand the experience of “I don’t think of you that often.” And now as an older person, I know that feeling really well… so many people who i had been close to at points in time that I don’t think if that often

about 8 years ago she moves back and just acted like that never happened

ugh that is the most obnoxious behavior, I despise it

I've only ever cut complete contact with a friend once that I can think of. It was a slightly fraught friendship to begin with, he's high maintenance person with a lot of issues, and when he got drunk he had a hard time not hitting on me even though he knew very well I wasn't interested. I could mostly deflect without incident. But then when I got into a new serious relationship he was super bitchy about my gf (now wife) even tho she was never anything but nice to him, and one time he was staying overnight at our place and he and I ended up getting into a really stupid argument that I knew was him kind of sublimating his own emotional stuff and he basically stormed out and drove 4 hours home in the middle of the night, and I was just like, "Well, that's enough of that." Literally not talked to him in the dozen years since, he lives on the other side of the country, and I hear from mutual friends that he's basically still as impossible as ever. I wish him well but don't miss being his emotional support, it was a lot.

Was he out?

Oh very.

OK. I asked because I've met guys like him and when I was younger and decidedly not out was probably that guy without being high maintenance or so obnoxious (I hope!).

I also realize that there are people who I wish I could cut completely out of my life, but I have to interact with them in some capacity because of work or other community things… so I have the category of “avoid/ignore as much as possible, but don’t make it dramatic “

Then I really start feeling old when people i used to think were annoying af become more tolerable because they actually are pretty good to work with in a professional way

xp Alfred yeah I’m sure you weren’t anything like this guy. He’s sort of a grand Southern queen, or that’s his chosen role. Which could make him a lot of fun, lots of acerbic wit, but plenty of downsides.