Doctor Who New Series 2005 (spoilers ahoy)

Considering the amount of money they're splashing out on it, I doubt the BBC are going to be it in the graveyard slot opposite Corrie. And there have been strong suggestions I gather that it'll be on Saturday, rather than any other day.

I suspect myself it will do very well; the schedules have really been crying out for this sort of show... with good publicity, it'll be rather the hit, I should think. They will easily get fans of the Gatiss/Pegg type shows on board, obv., the question is whether they can get a significant proportion of the wider LOTR or Harry Potter multitudes hooked. The central role of Russell T. Davies reassures me more than anything; the man is one of the shrewdest writers of TV drama (often comedy to some degree too) around. Even if not perfect as a writer - his way with endings can possibly be questioned - he is largely quite a giant in today's 'TV dramatist' world, c.f. the BBC being so keen to get him to write a show for them that they agreed to it being Dr Who, after his insistence. The recent "Mine All Mine" has only confirmed the man's great strengths; quite riproaring fun. It is also a good omen that writers like Paul Cornell and Rob Shearman are on board, writers of good DW in other media. And of course, Steven Moffat... and what seems like possibly inspired casting for the lead roles.

I imagine Eccleston will be multi-faceted; he only seems to have accepted the role with key assurances, and of course, the presence of Davies. Colin Baker won't be a satisfactory comparison point; he was landed in it by the 'creative team' around him, and various errs. McCoy showed 'range' in a pendulum swing from an amateurish, if not always misfiring turn in his first year, to a well sustained 'darker' portrayal in the final 1989 series. I should think the best comparisons might be Hartnell, Troughton, T. Baker and Davison, really... all actors with a good deal of range (though WH and TB had rather more distinct 'personality' types - indeed Hartnell's sergeant majoring type-casting in various British films, and Baker claimed to use a good deal of his own personality in his portrayal of the Doctor).

Eccleston has I believe intimated that he'd like to bring some humour to the role, so it's not necessarily going to be an 'overly serious' piece of Stanislavskian acting. I was very pleased to hear that he was intent on getting to the bottom of the character, and not playing it as a limited type, aka C. Baker (pompous, overbearing, arrogant blusterer in erm, a coat...) or Pertwee (using the role to do a bit of Bondian business, dispense moral homilies, and generally appear a very 'straight' partriarchal hero...).

I can't find the original press release but:

http://www.clivebanks.co.uk/Dwnewseries.htm

The Doctor and his friend Rose will be able to travel anywhere, any time, every Saturday night.

http://dwas.drwho.org/news/newseries

Riches warns against scripting a love affair for the Doctor that turns more passionate given the BBC's intention to give it a tea-time Saturday slot.

http://gallifreyone.com/newseriesfaq.php

The story broke in the September [2003] London Daily Telegraph newspaper in an article called "Doctor Who ready to come out of the Tardis for Saturday TV series," which caused a whirlwind of press coverage and was shortly thereafter confirmed by an official BBC press release.

Anyway, BBC1 is running promotions on air now. No dates or anything.

Queer as Folk had the second worst ending of anything ever. If he does that to Doctor Who, I'll... stop watching.

I won't form an opinion until I see the thing; until then, I trust the judgement of loads of people at the BBC who want it to succeed.

Disappointed they won't show a regeneration this time, he'll be introduced cold. I guess this lets them get right to the point with new stories rather then wasting three months with a dazed guy wandering around figuring out what the hell is up with himself. It always did take half a season to pick up every time he regenerated anyway. but I like the transformation sequences themselves.

Kyle: The regeneration would alienate viewers. I actually really like the idea of coming into it cold, and with no assumption of prior knowledge [this is the only way to pick up a new audience]. A regeneration would give new viewers the impression that they missed something, which is never a good ploy for any show's first series. Perhaps an 8-9 regeneration will be shown in flashback next year or something, so newbies get an insight into the Doctor's origins.

Although it continues an existing concept, it's very much a whole new television show. This excites me more than anything.

(also, I remember reading an interview with the actress who played Marcie, and she said that Davies had quite a Tom Baker obsession, so perhaps he's spinning things for a more general audience in that interview?)

Doing away with the awkward regeneration period is a pretty good idea though. I never would have believed that 2005 would bring both a new Doctor Who series and a big-budget Hitchhiker's Guide movie.

AUTONS! OK, this has been no secret since the very beginning, but hooray for the return of MY FAVOURITE WHO MONSTER EVAH! There's a biohazard sign in one of the photos, which may be a nice reference to the first BBV auton film.

I should be ashamed of being excited at the photo of Baldy Briggs doing dalek voices (reprising his current role in Dalek Empire?). I am not. It is a badge of courage.

According to a Russell Davies interview, he showed a reporter "very impressive" footage of the Doctor haranguing a dalek he has chained up. The dalek plot appears to have been shot in modern London (or the bits of Cardiff that look like London) so this may well tie in with all the House Of Commons and government stuff that has been seen. A dalek invasion force?

There is what appears to be a 20th century plot featuring a church on the coast and something mysterious which turns up in the water. As long as this doesn't end up looking like a Curse Of Fenric rewrite, it could be great. I suspect the pictures of extras on a bus come from here.

There is what looks like a 19th (or very early 20th) century plot about a missing sea vessel - this could be the same thing as the previous plot I mentioned, or it could be a Bermuda Triangle/lost at sea plot a bit like Carnival Of Monsters?

There are several book files detailing "sightings" in the USA in the 60s. These may well tie in with the clapperboard marked "outer space". There's also a folk-art abduction piece, and evidence there's a story in America. Maybe the missing vessel ties into this?

There's an intriguing photo captioned "the person in this picture isn't important, but the angle he's been seen from is". It's a shot looking up from the floor. Since they're making a point over it... Cybermat? Unlikely, since there are two well known returning monsters already. Kaled? A decent call, but not revealing anything given we know about the daleks already. On that basis, I'm going to stick my neck out and say Rutan. The only problem with that is looking slightly cynical, what with Fang Rock released at about the same time.

There's an equally intriguing photo of a silver ball... not an aspect of The Great Intelligence, surely? So, say I was wrong about the Rutans...

So, a dalek three parter, an auton three parter, a rutan (or Great Intelligence) two parter, an English pastoral three parter and a US alien abduction two parter?

I strongly suspect the Eccleston Doctor will be somewhere between Hartnell and final-series McCoy. Time will tell.

I also think there's a far more prosaic reason why there isn't a regeneration scene planned. It stops Davies having to answer the question of the canonicity of the McGann 'Doctor'. (This may surprise those casually interested but it's a cause of major schism in Who fandom - I, for example, insist he is a Doctor because we see him regenerate from McCoy; whereas Frances insists it cannot be a valid regeneration since it's a film and FILMS DON'T COUNT. We were quite looking forward to seeing who Ecclestone regenerated from, just to prove this very point. If you don't believe me, look up 'Fictional Canon' on wikipedia )

Although there is some between-films continuity (e.g. references to the death of Bond's wife), the ever-changing cast has rendered any sort of canon determination virtually impossible.

What puny minds these humans have.

Also it mystifyingly omits any mention of Star Wars canon, where the books and games and comics have their own separate continuities with strong links but no hierarchy.

i notice you have time to write on message boards regarding Dr Who the series, despite the fact that you still have 983489273465891273465 Dr Who BOOKS to write about as PROMISED on do you see....

...i for one am greatly disappointed...

Now back to lurking before I am overwhelmed by the smell of geek.

That reminds me, I have more Not Who reviews I could probably put up...

YES to K9!!! That will be awesome if K9 comes back but they'll probably give him some new bubbly, sleek design which makes him look all dumb and modern.

1) He's in some great storylines (c.f. Key To Time).

2) He's better than Kamelion (Deny that Dan).

3) The Invisible Enemy was really good as well.

4) John Leeson was 1000x better than Sophie Aldred.

5) Or Bonnie Langford.

6) And he acted with Tom Baker, which was more than Julian Glover ever did (much as I love City Of Death).

7) K9 didn't outstay his welcome as a companion compared to some (the aforementioned Mel and Ace).

8) He had a whole spin-off with Liz Sladen, which in actual fact was a spin-off of the never-piloted SJS Journalist show which was discussed several times.

9) He got to call Lalla Ward "mistress".

All these things are in his favour.

1) He's in some great storylines (c.f. Key To Time).

Granted, but that's nothing to do with him being in it. He can't even roll into the Tardis properly ffs. Anyway, Romana I is way hotter than him.

2) He's better than Kamelion (Deny that Dan).

So's Adric. And Nyssa. I mean really.

4) John Leeson was 1000x better than Sophie Aldred.

FITE! Ace is my darling.

5) Or Bonnie Langford.

At least Mel did something, even if that something was screaming loads and wearing the kind of high-slung slacks my grandmother wears to lawn bowls.

6) And he acted with Tom Baker, which was more than Julian Glover ever did (much as I love City Of Death).

Pffft. I'm not convinced saying 'yes master' in a monotone voice every 12 seconds counts as acting.

7) K9 didn't outstay his welcome as a companion compared to some (the aforementioned Mel and Ace).

What, Mark I, II or III? At least Mel didn't come back in subsequent incarnations, and if she did she'd have improved. K-9 didn't even grow legs.

8) He had a whole spin-off with Liz Sladen, which in actual fact was a spin-off of the never-piloted SJS Journalist show which was discussed several times.

You managed to sit through that thing? omg you deserve a medal.

9) He got to call Lalla Ward "mistress".

So did Tom Baker.

I reckon that's just a Dalek thing.

I also think there's a far more prosaic reason why there isn't a regeneration scene planned. It stops Davies having to answer the question of the canonicity of the McGann 'Doctor'.

Davies has already said Eccleston is playing the ninth Doctor, and I think he even said he considers McGann'S Doctor a proper one. After 500 audio dramas and 2398742938742934 books, he couldn't really not be 'canon', could he? [even if the actual stories are not]

Anyway, the whole 'canon' thing is a wank. I'm hoping Davies deliberately contradicts so much of the old series than anorak fannies have no choice but to fuck off. Here are my suggestions:

1. The Doctor is half-human, half-Ice Warrior, and was adopted by Davros's two incestuous love children whilst on holiday in Gallifrey

2. The Tardis's VWORP-VWORP-VWORP noise turns out to be caused by a carrot in the mechanism, which once removed causes the Tardis to make a lovely sound akin to pixie dust

3. The Doctor had a leather fetish all along, and kills animals in his spare time

4. Peladon doesn't really exist, and was all just a dream [I'd pay to see that]

5. Romana regenerated because he got her up the duff

10) As noted by Eric Saward (I'm sure it was him, although writing the rest of it makes me think it might actually have been Sarah Sutton) in the Earthshock documentary, the Three Companion era was dominated by two of them going off doing things with the Doctor while one remained stuck back in the TARDIS. K9 pioneered this radical approach to companions.

11) K9 was useful, even when broken (as in Full Circle, where the Doctor uses his head to scare the Marshmen). Ace was useless, even when not broken.

12) Waggling his tail unjams his probe circuit (with the advantage of curing Chronic Hysteresis).

13) He wasn't in Time And The Rani or Paradise Towers.

(This is turning into Defend The Indefensible: K9, isn't it?)

Only because they couldn't leave him on his own.

11) K9 was useful, even when broken (as in Full Circle, where the Doctor uses his head to scare the Marshmen). Ace was useless, even when not broken.

LEAVE OFF MY ACE OR THERE'LL BE TROUBLE.

Anyway, Ace had guts. K-9 had a pissy little death ray that didn't even work half the time.

12) Waggling his tail unjams his probe circuit (with the advantage of curing Chronic Hysteresis).

Shouldn't get jammed in the first place. He's a futuristic robot ffs.

13) He wasn't in Time And The Rani or Paradise Towers.

Um... I can't challenge that.

(This is turning into Defend The Indefensible: K9, isn't it?)

Heh, it needs its own thread now. :)

(I'll continue to argue Ace with you though, because she was TEH FCUKIN' RUBBIDGE. Have you never watched Mindgame, which shows the full extent of Sophie's acting abilities i.e. FUCK ALL?)

Anyway it's Ace the character I have a mega crush on, although Sophie Aldred isn't half bad looking once you get past the acting. And compared to the run of companions before her [Mel, Peri, Tegan, Nyssa, Adric for christ's sake] in acting terms she's bloody Judy Dench as far as I'm concerned.

And no dissing Adrick, either. He shaped my preadolescent brain in ways I don't like to think about.

Ace, however, yeurgh, dis all you like, starting with what sort of accent *was* that supposed to be?

Ace, the character, is pretty good. Where it all falls down, however, is casting a 26 YEAR OLD WOMB-MAN as a 15 YEAR OLD GURL. Everybody apart from JNT could see that was a fatal flaw.

I like Peri. And Tegan. And almost even Adric (although teenage stroppery is a bit wearing, and for greater grumpy teen accuracy where was his giant stash of pr0n? Or his unwanted stiffies whenever a woman walked past?). But Nyssa is where I draw the line. And Mel, obviously, but that goes without saying.

(lovely thread BTW, carry on)

Both being very strong and empowered female archetypes, etc. but representing different kinds of strength and empowerment.

Doctor Who: Classic or Dud?

The best assistant is Romana 2 and that will never change.

I agree K9 should be a real dog who thinks he's a robot!

Apart from Leela though, who's better than all of them. And I have a soft spot for Liz.

::sticks fingers in ears and sings la la la la I can't hear you::

x-post

I always thought that UNIT was dreamed up by the BBC props department so they wouldn't have to dream up any more STRANGE ALIEN PLANET SETS EVER AGAIN!

Plus, well, Bessie!!! OK, not a patch on the TARDIS, but still. OK, you're right, she was lame. Forget I brought it up.

I have just remembered the episode where he manages to convince a bunch of addled Morris dancers not to... MAN! What a load of old tat I must watch it again soon!

http://pages.zoom.co.uk/elvis/drwho2.jpg

http://www.3wheelers.com/drwhom.jpg

http://www.imps4ever.info/specials/whomobile/whomobile_ontheroad.jpg

It was crap.

UNIT must equal KLASSIKKKKK as it gave Lethbridge-Stewart one of the best lines ever in Who - "Jenkins... chap with wings there. Five rounds, rapid."

Hahaha that's almost EXACTLY why the started doing the UNIT stories!

I am sure Billie would be marvellous!

At least she got the country right. Whatever the fuck the-woman-who-played-Peri [can't remember her name off-hand] was trying to do with her accent, it wasn't even the same continent. And she was sooky.

Dan: Tegan was awesome.

Her accent was crap. And Janet Fielding was even actually from Brisbane.

aldo_cowpat: it was pure gold and was used to kill the cyberleader in the DOCTOR VS CYBERMAN FITE!

Clearly it had a lasting effect on the remaining Cybermen. Seen Silver Nemesis? Jesus.

I can't even remember Leela. This bothers me. Oh, and UNIT = dud, by and large.

Billie looks ace in the publicity shots.

Really? Could you shed more light on this?

http://www.aliencomputerservices.co.uk/neil/gallery/DrWhoTV/images/leela_jpg.jpg
http://freespace.virgin.net/steve.preston/imgd19.gif
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sps/images/C_leela.jpg

And ACE. Crikeys.

Zoe (seriously, she is freakishly, abnormally cute; I think she's part kitten)
Victoria
Leela
Romana I
Sarah Jane
Polly
Nyssa
Tegan
Peri
Jo Grant
Susan
Barbara
Liz Shaw
Katarina
Ace
Vicki
Sara Kingdom
Romana II
Mel
Dodo

Zoe
Romana I
Liz Shaw [omg those EYES]
Victoria
Susan [really, have a closer look, she's all horn]
Polly
Jo Grant
Sarah Jane
Ace
Leela
Peri
Tegan
Barbara
Vicki
Sara Kingdom
Katarina
Romana II
Mel
Dodo
Kamelion
K-9
Sonic Screwdriver
That hammond organ tardis from Attack of the Cybermen
Nyssa

xpost: No

How often does the Doctor turn up during an exciting event, and how often is him turning up the exciting event? Does it vary by doctor/writer? Apart from the UNIT stories, where obviously the point is that he doesn't 'turn up' at all.

"Filming of the new series of Doctor Who has been hit by a shortage of dwarf actors"

In other news, I've decided we're going to go to Aldebourne for a bit of a trip tomorrow (weather dependent, although we can always hide out in the pub if it's too bad) so I can pretend to be Lethbridge-Stewart.

All of the above casting is good in a prestige-type way. One hopes they will do something interesting with Wilson... I'd like to see a few more of the odder castings, like Andrew Marr (who is to play himself... presumably in a scene akin to those media-reaction relays in "The Second Coming").

Anyone seen it?

I haven't seen it (it's only three weeks, I can wait that long), but apparently it doesn't have any of the incidental music but is otherwise complete. AICN are alone, I think, in their dislike of it given some of the other reviews I've heard about. Mind you, they liked Attack Of The Clones and The Phantom Menace before they were released so their judgement is questionable to say the least.

A Very Dalek Christmas

But the BBC was always going to start publicity on the 8th of March, so it was arguably ready to go anyway.

The new episode is sitting right here, actually in my lap. Literally. Yet I cannot watch it, because 'er indoors [who incidentally HATES Doctor Who] wants me to wait for her. Which means Saturday. GAARRGHGHH.

I'm still waiting for it to air 'proper'. The Ecclestone trailer was on BBC2 last night for the first time. I was dead excited.

You would do well to read this, PARTICULARLY THE LINKS AT THE END.

I am officially very, very excited. It's a good job it's less than a fortnight away otherwise I think I might explode.

When I get home from work, I may well download the CBC trailers.

*all = all that haven't had horse racing taped over them)

two Dalek films on the friday before the saturday that this airs (Good Friday) btw. bbc2 and ch5.

There's going to be another new doc on the night of transmission of Rose beforehand, and Who Confidential on BBC3 afterwards.

I'm still resisting the temptation to watch the rough cut of Rose, although it's sitting on my hard drive calling out to me. I can wait till after the screening, then point out the differences. I hope.

MY

FUCKING

GOD

This is a quite unprecedented build-up... this will clearly get more than 10 million viewers first up. After all, the return of Auf Wiedersehen, Pet got 12 or so million didn't it, in 2002? There may have been less competition, but I hardly think that Ant and Dec's core demographic are the only people this series will get on board. I bet many like me rarely if ever watch terrestrial TV on Saturday evenings... getting a whole new audience on board must be the game.

Anyway, tonight's 50 second trailer was absolutely awesome. This is potentially the best thing ever. The Dalek from Episode 6 is unbelievable. This is definitely the most attention I can ever remember the BBC giving a show in advance of transmission.

I watched Rose on Friday night. Bloody brilliant. Really really pleased. Better than anything I'd imagined. Very very sophisticated, funny, exciting, and brilliant characterisations. Even my wife said she'd keep watching. A couple of small aspects pissed me off no end but they could be overlooked, and probably won't come up ever again.

(hasn't australia been repeated them all* from the beginning?
*all = all that haven't had horse racing taped over them)

Yep. Started at the start in late 2003, skipped all the missing and part-missing ones, and skipped all the Dalek stories in Troughton's and Pertwee's tenure [rights issues apparently]. Tonight's part one of The Sun Makers, so more than halfway I think.

I just saw it. FUCK.

Our house, after watching the trailer for about the twentieth time.

There are little dalek blueprints on the lightbox behind the dalek. You can see the inside of the police box doors in the console room. There are still 10 days to go.

I have been charged with digging up one episode per doctors 1-7 for a watching party, umming and ahh-ing over the choice of episodes is proving delightful.

Although the flaw with this is that Doctors 6 & 7 have episodes twice the length of the others...

NB I have been going for 'representative' over 'great' in most cases.

Ah, episode 1 of The Two Doctors.

Hartnell: Dalek Invasion Of Earth Episode 1. Passes almost without note, until the Dalek comes out of the water...
Troughton: Tomb Of The Cybermen Episode 3. Cybermats, plus the Cybercontroller with the giant head. Good competition, however, from Seeds Of Death Episode 2 (watch Jamie's hands as the spaceship crashes), 4 (Zoe in front of the wall of lights is perfect), 5 (gallons and gallons of foam) and The Abominable Snowmen Episode 2 (yeti action).
Pertwee: Spearhead From Space Episode 4. UNIT, the electrical device that disables Autons, the final tentacled nonsense. I think the polarity of the neutron flow gets reversed at one point, plus AREN'T WE ALL SCARED OF COMPUTERS.
Tom Baker: Meglos Episode 1. Chronic Hysteresis, K-9's tail, Lalla Ward and a giant, talking shapeshifting plant.
Davison: The Visitation Episode 3. Great dialogue, historical nonsense, a very complex alien and the destruction of the sonic screwdriver.
Colin Baker: The Two Doctors Episode 1. A costume so revealing, Peri wears a jacket for most of it. Jacqueline Pearce trying hard not to be thought of as Servalan.
McCoy: Happiness Patrol Episode 1. Your party needs the Kandy Man.

T. Baker MUST be one of the following:

Ark In Space 2
Robots of Death 4
Horror at Fang Rock... 2 or 3? Can't remember which one is the absolutely fantastic one.
Pirate Planet 2
City of Death... 2?
Full Circle 4
Warrior's Gate 2
Logopolis 3

I'd suggest Ark In Space 3 is more suitable - 2 is a bit dialogue-heavy and too many 'awakening' scenes, whereas 3 has the Wirrn in the power source and the full transformation of Noah. Robots Of Death 4 has the helium scene, which makes it genius. Pirate Planet 1 has the K9/Mentiad FITE, although 2 is a good one as well. City Of Death 2 features the fantastic moment (albeit only as recap) where Julian Glover's head becomes bigger when he removes his skin, and has all the Leonardo nonsense in it? That's a good one, aye. I was going to say Full Circle 4, but I didn't think it would please the Adric hataz and the disembodied head of K9 might not be enough for some. Great pay-off though. Logopolis 3 - see my comments upthread on suggesting Sea Devils 2. I would need to watch Warrior's Gate again to refresh my memory.

Full Circle 4 is possibly the best episode with Adric in it that doesn't feature him slamming into the side of the Earth and killing all the dinosaurs.

(Yes, I was 10 when "The Five Doctors" came out.)

I'm tempted to put Planet of Fire episode 1, just because it's got no Nyssa or Tegan and Peri doesn't talk much.

if we are doing POO ep per doctor i would have to go with Robots of Death ep 4 for Tom B. (so SO close with any ep of City of Death - tho prob the one where Dr says "What a marvellous butler -He's so violent" and where romana II does the chinese puzzle box)

Davidson that would be ep 3 of Caves of Androzani cos it is THE best cliffhanger EVAH ecah evah

however as i have seen these so many times, there is a sense of weighting vs like to review thing going on. which throws me some...

MADNESS.

only joking, i would love CoF if it wasn't for all that embarassing stuff with ace. they try to get her to act, and she's not up to it. pretty lady though. bless you, sophie.

Mary Tamm, on the other hand. WOOF!!

Hartnell era: for a certain sort of do, erm, any from "The Web Planet"... otherwise, The Time Meddler 4 I have always found a wonderful one.
Troughton: The Mind Robber 1. Believe me; this is a brilliantly self-contained episode. Bizarre, surreal yet pared down like a psychodrama.
Pertwee: The Green Death 6 (end of an era and all that, sniff sniff... very poignant final scenes)
T. Baker: The Androids of Tara 1 (Stones of Blood would also be a good call)
Davison: agree on Black Orchid, though maybe ep. 1 of that?
C. Baker: if you want slightly dispiriting madness, go for TOATL 8 (Mindwarp 4; a weird mix of tones), otherwise, yeah, TOATL 13. Any from the Vervoids one would be a big error...!
McCoy: Ghost Light 1: magnificent, as much of the final season is. A more offbeat choice: Survival 1...

!!

I also agree that the problem with Bonnie Langford was not her acting; rather it was the direction given to her. If you look at the character description of Melanie Bush, you see a screeching, overbearing turbo-harpy that should be smacked with sticks... and that's precisely the character she portrayed. The only way the books made Mel bearable was to turn her into a completely different character.

OH. MY. GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ned: Get the trailer as well. The full episode's incredibly utterly superlatively awesome, but the trailer's pretty mind-blowing too. Trailer here.

#1 = ppl sitting around computer in darkened room, tappity tap on the keyboard, and then someone says "we're in"

If it's COMEDY LAFFS you want for your party, you could do worse than Ep 4 of The Celestial Toymaker. Watch in horror as Peter Purves gets led astray by a fat Bunter-a-like!

Seriously, I want to move to the UK now.

There's been a good debate on OG about why the US Networks might be loathe about taking this on: the basic conclusion is that using The Office and Coupling as a template then Doctor Who will more than likely end up on BBC America. The Americans on there would favour to broadcast it otherwise, based on its treatment of Hornblower, or that Nick, ABC Family, Fox Kids or WAM! might also be suitable, depending on how it's pitched. To those who understand what these US channels actually mean, is this a sensible stance?

PBS (historical reasons)
BBC America (obvious lineage reasons)
Sci-Fi Network (obvious content reasons)

I would be amazed if Nick, ABC Family or Fox Kids was interested in showing this. A&E would never ever show anything like this show in a million years.

The rumour mill has an April announcement on broadcasts, possibly for June transmission. USA Network has been mentioned in the same breath...

Just because I can.

Sci-Fi has shown in the past that they are run by douchebags so their non-interest doesn't surprise me. ("Hm, this doesn't look quite shitty enough to meet our precise standards, sorry.")

Dan's right. Too few explosions, too much actual drama.

In other news, Australia still doesn't have a buyer.

Of greater concern is Brits complaining because their licence fee is being tipped heavily in favour of one show.

he does seem to have a crush on her, doesn't he?

It's not the new theme music, because that wasn't finished when they did this cut of the episode.

he does seem to have a crush on her, doesn't he?

Apparently it gets crushier.

Anyone see the 'Culture Show' (BBC2) portion on the new DW last evening?

*waves*

For some reason, the presenter's face reminded me rather of Tom Baker.

in a *completely unrelated question*, if i had a 66M file to upload somewhere how would i do it?

www.yousendit.com

6th Doctor and Peri were at it like rabbits, I always thought. And the 3rd Doctor is obviously upset and jealous when Jo Grant finds a husband (Green Death).

(Pete's much better at this than I am.)

Yes, the dullard Sgt. Benson is utterly unworthy of the total horn-goddess Jo.

Is that involving the actress who's now married to Richard Dawkins?

(I cannot remember her name - I am a failure when it comes to Doctor Who trivia)

Jo's leaving is close, but what's portrayed is still just the loss you would get in a close relationship. there's poss more emotion in the partings of tegan??

This :

http://members.aol.com/corgibox/new.html

is good. **(But you might not want it popping up on your WORK computer)**

People are right to bring "The Green Death" up, c.f. the Doctor having romantic feelings; Jo is clearly more than just a friend to him. It also rather unrelatedly (?) contains scenes of the Doctor in drag, and Yates starting his 'divided loyalties' stage... ;)

No, I've never seen too much in the Tegan-5th Doc 'relationship', but that's probably as its an era of the show I am repelled by, barring stuff like "Enlightenment" and "Black Orchid". Davison was good, and played it very emotionally at times, but seems to me like a man adrift, amidst all manner of folly.

No, it's certainly "Green Death" for me; and aren't Jo and Prof. Jones the best couple of the series? (ha ha, I certainly think they beat the Harris' of "Fury from the Deep" ;)) I do bar Tom and Lalla from this, as the off-screen dominates the on-screen there, whereas this is purely fictional and beautifully acted.

"Oh darling, you can't even boil an egg!"
"Well, that's what you get for marrying a scientist, dear."

Last night I also came up with a theory that Turlough doesn't kill the Doctor because he realises he fancies him, and Tegan ends up leaving in Ressurection because she can't supress her feelings for the Doctor any more - well, not with him and Turlough conducting a full-blown gay shagfest through the wall in the TARDIS anyway.

But that could have been bollocks.

Benton's emotional life is sort of explained in the War Game fanfilm, see my review in the "Not Doctor Who" thread.

After watching Doctor Who: A New Dimension I am beside myself with excitement, spoileriffic though it was.

Gosh, half an hour until new, proper Dr Who is back on our screens...! Been waiting for this since the 6th of December 1989. ;)

Americans, ph32r my UK l1v1ng sk1llz...

I'm off to the pub now to rant about it, while Doctor Who Confidential tapes.

(no Graham Norton on the transmission up here, fortunately)

Never really watched it before, but I loved that. Why has no-one allowed Christopher Eccleston to be funny before?

Reminded me of those occasional CBBC dramas that are good.

Should not spoil it one bit, though. The best thing was it getting the lightness of touch absolutely dead on - somehow the humour was almost always perfectly judged. Hardly anything does that nowadays, but Eccleston was just totally brilliant at it (c.f. Timothy Dalton's horrid, horrid performance in 'The Living Daylights' last night. Some people can quip, some people can't. Timothy Dalton most definitely can't). He made him likeable was the thing - quipping characters usually come off as cunts, but there was something essential about him... bloody brilliant.

x-post - This is what happens when you read things.

(xpost)

I liked it a lot. It did everything it needed to, catered to the fans enough to not distract from the main plot (I thought the Internet guy could have been too much, but it was okay in the end), and it was exciting! (Plus, the font they used for the credits - harking back to CBBC of yore, which was nice).

The effects were, well, not jaw-dropping, but at least as good as say an episode of Buffy or Angel, and I did like the low-rent T1000 dummy…

OH! from watching the BBC3 thing afterwards - is that a hint of a UNIT story? *nerdglee*

and those routemasters are already anachronistic to anyone living in london.

dr sounded like andy from little britain at times. 'yeah, i know'.

was norton on terrestrial feed as well as digital feed?

minor criticisms though, makes me wish they hadn't waited 16 years.

interweb nutter was the evil bloke with shiny eyes in second coming. also in bob and rose i think.

billie surprisingly ok. good even.

haven't they done the showroom dummies thing before? culture show piece made mention of not going shopping in ealing high street and showed dummies.

or was that the avengers. or the uglie wugglies? 8)

Back in 1970. I don't think Kraftwerk would have a leg to stand on.

I was confused by the overlapping Norton sounds. When Billie walked into the basement, i thought someone had thrown her a surprise party or something.

All in all, I was impressed, though Eccleston was great, brought out the natural arrogance of the Doctor in a really appealing way. (Though I'm not sure about the Dr's "Shut up")

And Suzy is shouting at me that I have to confess or she will tell that I was so scared by the killer wheelie bin that I hid behind a blanket and did not come out until the mannekins were killed.

Random trainspotter complaint: as they ran across the bridge to the London Eye (great plot device! the Eye is EEEEEEEVIL!!!) an N159 went by -headed for "London Bridge." Any fule who lives in Steatham know, the N133 goes to London bridge, the N159 goes to Marble Arch. Humph!

We did have that weird sound Graham Norton thing, but I thought it was supposed to be a TV on in the background or something. :/

OK, though.

We watched it twice and it was brilliant.

The London Eye gag was also grebt. Billies mum was in Nuns On The Run and the Doctor Who website was great. Let's all try search-wise.net

8.5 out a spurious ten. (with Pyramids Of Man Shagging Mars ten out of)

Yes PLASTIC BOYFRIEND!

This is Sarah by the way. Shabazz. Lucretia My Reflection. OH WHATEVER

I have a question, about dr. whos: do peter cushing and paul mcgann count to the tally?

Best quasi-racist character ever!

(McGann counts, Cushing doesn't)

Also, point being that that first episode could have occurred on year in the future when all the bendy buses have been scrapped and the Routemaster IS BACK! And when the NWhoeverthefuckcares has been re-routed to Streatham.

I laughed a fair bit, but not where they wanted me to I fear.

"he has a constant companion.....DEATH"

bollocks, creased me up though

big quibble: the doctor looks at himself at Rose's in the mirror, says, "eh, not bad....big ears though" or something, which seems to hint that he just recently regenerated and hasn't seen himself yet. But if that's true, HOW COME THERE ARE LIKE 70 PICTURES OF HIM ON THE WEB in this incarnation? I find it hard to believe he was at the kennedy assassination in 63 and managed to miss a mirror!

although maybe he hasn't been to those places YET.

That threw me, but then I realised, just like Merlin, and as you said, he hasn't done them yet.

And it must be awful being a Who conspiracy theorist. What with the 8th Doctor spending the whole 20th century on Earth, the 3rd's Exile, and all the others, there must be so many conflicting appearances…

Also NB I am going to kill myself under aforesaid bus on my way home tonight for being quite so utterly geeky.

I think personally my only poor point for the show was the unnecessary death of the webmaster who's stalking Chris Eckles and his Tun around TIME AND SPACE. Not a shark jumping moment but just slightly pointless I felt.

Dalek Invasion 2150 = utterly mad but earth = dalek patio hurrah.

didn't know about mcgann's audio. why didn't they use him again? wanted publicity of a new dr. and other stuff? shame we didn't see eccleston's regeneration.

(Of course that backstory may be some 8th doctor novels/audio thing I know zero about, but I doubt it.)

Book.

Lance Parkin hasn't said what will happen in the book, and good thing too.

xpost

spoilers:

Very quick (as it's bloody complicated, and I'm still not sure I understand all of Interference): The Doctor blows up Gallifrey, in a way that means it never existed in the first place. There are apparently four Time Lords left (Romana is one, the Doctor, and I think the Master, but I might be wrong on that). After the destruction of Gallifrey, the Doctor spent the 20th century living on Earth and recuperating (he also lost most of his memory; some of it has returned, but I don't think everything's back yet), before the TARDIS rebuilt itself so he could go travelling in time again. Without the Time Lords, Humans now have greater access to time-travel tech than before, and magic appears to be stronger as well.

x-post

Vic laughed too, we were cringing badly

The War Machines Part 1 (mostly for nite klub action)
Evil Of The Daleks Part 2 (cos it has daleks, and none of us had seen it)
Terror Of The Autons Part 3 (autons, John P being arsey to everyone)
The Stones Of Blood Part 2 ("Bicycle!", also K9 vs grass, gravel, etc.)
Terminus Part 2 (my token contrarian Who opinion - this is one of my favourite ever stories, and not just because Nyssa gets into goth make up and takes her skirt off under the influence of 'lazars disease')
Mark Of The Rani Part 2 (up to don't-fear-the-tree fiasco)
Ghost Light Part 1 (because it was the cheapest McCoy in the 2nd hand shop)

I am trying to convince party to watch it for a third time. Hendrick's department store...And Rose has a bit of a tea leaf about her.

The Brigadier wouldn't have turned down Billie's mum.

A big round antenna...

What's even better, next week on Doctor Who...the bad guy is an evil bedsheet with a mouth. Production designs, what production designs...

but great fun nonetheless for reasons already stated several times over upthread.

it's strange to see British Saturday teatime science fiction on terrestrial TV again - inevitably looked ridiculous as a result - but not ironic thankfully.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/whoisdoctorwho/sightings.shtml

Nope.

(the building did look rather like Jenners, and also rather like the building a block down that now houses TopShop / Dorothy Perkins et al, but wasn't them - and if it was it would have to have been entirely photoshopped into place, as none of the buildings over the road from those go above street level)

ihttp://www.edinburgharchitecture.co.uk/jpgs/3d_moundview.jpg

Jenners is the buildings on the left, from the street corner onwards out of the picture. The Arcadia Group building (ie Topshop, Burtons etc) is the building at centre-right that looks like it has a crane sticking out of the roof.

What did I think of it? Well, rubbish incidental music, and the usual rubbish re-working of the title music. The acting was good and the humour funny, but maybe there was too much humour? The thing I most didn't like about it, though, was the pacing... unlike a good episode of Star Trek TNG (the same actual length), this seemed very rushed, with not much sense of the story building and then being resolved.

In after programme conversation, we discussed what you would do if offered the chance to run away in the TARDIS with the Doctor. I think all right thinking poeple would go. But what if just as the Doctor was inviting you in, a once-off door-way to Narnia were to open nearby? And as if that wasn't bad enough, Gandalf suddenly appeared to reveal that he needed YOU to help destroy the One Ring?

We also wondered how it would affect our decisions if the Doctor was being played by Mariah Carey.

Don't like the title sequence at all, there shouldn't be names on it.
It's far more overtly comedic than I expected it to be, but not necessarily in a bad way.
Eccles' Doctor is probably closest to Tom Baker, in a "fuck it, we're all going to die, might as well have a bit of fun along the way" way.
I thought the wheelie bin could have been handled a lot better (maybe just swallowed when he first looked into it).
I'd have to see one without all the back story, but I didn't like the 45 minute single episode length much. It was all a bit too rushed.

But the good things far outweigh that. It was brilliant, and isn't it great to have Doctor Who back.

< Rose nods at the Millennium Wheel >
Doctor: "Fantastic!"

Sorry again to the Americans, Dan, you should have it Torrented by now I expect...

What we are really wondering is how scary the Daleks are to our little focus group.

Once I'd stopped seeing Christopher Eccleston as David Bilborough from Cracker (too many similar mannerisms), it was OK. Silly, pointless, but ultimately OK.

Mark Benton (interweb weirdo) is in SO MANY TV dramas just now, it was no surprise at all to see him in this. Similarly, I will be super-shocked if fellow Second Coming/Bob and Rose star Lesley Sharp doesn't turn up at some point as well.

Also, what Sven B said about the photoshopping. "here he is in the background in dallas in 1963" = "here is a cut-out photo of Chris Eccleston's head pritt-sticked onto a photo of dallas in 1963". I'm sure there is some nostalgic joy for Dr Who fans to be had in such crap effects, but it just looked so wrong.

I liked the one-way conversation with the plastic consciousness thing "I'M TALKING HERE!". Also Billie's "I have no A-levels, no future, but at least I've got a bronze medal in gymnastics, take that, evil plastic things" gung-ho attitude. She's a bit too pouty to take seriously though.

I'll watch again, but in no way does it make me care about watching any previous series. It worked well enough on its own merits for me to enjoy as was.

ha, this is the first programme i have seen Eccleston in where he's smiling - and it's understandable given how terrifying he looks when doing this (but in a great way)

I think I'll get past this in time.

I though Bilborough was a totally under-rated character in Cracker (I'm watching the re-runs on ITV3 just now)

he wasn't really under-rated was he? look at his career trajectory after Cracker, same goes for Robert Carlyle - that particular story is one of McGovern's greatest works but i always thought Eccleston stole the show with his death scene.

I think, however, maybe I mean I under-rated the character myself the first time I watched it. The earlier episodes, before "To Be A Somebody" and his excellent death scene, he was just there the first time round for me, and the whole Fitz/Penhaligon/Beck dynamic was more in the forefront from me. Watching it again, I found Bilborough a much more rounded and likeable character than I'd previously given him credit for.

And I thought he brought that strength and that cynicism and that passion to Dr Who as well. Yes, he's an actor and is doing what he's told to an extent, but I do think he has something of himself he brings to all his roles. I just never noticed it until recently.

(xpost)

Don't you think X-Files has now become as kitsch as old Dr Who, Steve? I think if I saw an episode now it would be pretty risible.

re Ecclescakes, maybe the accent is still a factor too much, seeming so distinctive. He seems to live and die by it. The 'North' gag placating this a little, esp. after Peter Kay's seemingly derisive (tho not really i spose) 'The Doctor's a scally!' quip the other week. I like his accent a lot, but it may well still make you think Chris Eccleston instead of TEH DOC TOR.

I just rewatched the start, and we didn't get the Graham Norton thing here (BBC Scotland, not through digital).

10 million!

the rubness of the phoshopping is not (necesarily) an "hommage" to ancient poor dr who sfx, it could also be a commentary on the fact that the interweb is populated by pranksters and their easily deluded victims

the doctor's first advice to billie was: "don't tell anyone about this, you'll get them killed"
but she did: and the person she told got killed
his expression just before he was killed - which this actor is very good at - was "oh great! i have been right all along so now i must die" (ie equal parts validated and crestfallen) (also he clearly knew about the autons)
but in other news (cf above) just bcz he had found "proof" of the doctor's presence here there and everywhere doesn't mean the doctor had ever been there THIS IS THE INTERWEB PPL if you use it for fact-checking you will be sorry

eccleston's faintly overdone jokiness needn't be part of how he interracts with billie now she's on-board: at that point he was trying after all to get her to ignore and forget him

to date (excluding cushing who is merely lame) it goes:
bastard
nice
bastard
nice (tho very annoying) (this is a personal opinion: i am not a big TB fan)
nice
bastard
nice
nice (is that right for mcgann? i never watched it)

(the very first dr who moment i remember is actually repeated in the second dr who movie, tho i don't know if the TV prog still exists on vid --- but i'm just abt to blog abt that movie on freaky trigger so i won't spoil it here)

I really rather liked the new show; there may be quibbles, but a broadly *right* reintroduction: stuff like the Doctor 'giving the Nestene Consciousness a chance', and not actually doing so, just giving them a prolongued talking-to! and nearly being killed because of this.

And I liked the above Doctor-Nestene scene I mention; encapsulates the Doctor's sense of fair play - which is not always brought into practice. :)

(i am of the "real doctor = bastard" school) (it's my age)

The Eight Doctors nominally took up where the crap movie left off, and he visited his previous eight incarnations. I don't know why because I haven't read it. Then, in the next book he met Sam, who became his companion for a time.

In Alien Bodies the Faction Paradox is introduced, being some cult that spends its time screwing about with the timelines and changing history and being generally perverted. Doing things that should be impossible, e.g. members going back in time and impregnating their own mothers [probably not THAT, but things like that].

Later in Doctor Who and The Taint he meets Fitz, who becomes a companion, and in Interference we encounter Compassion, a Faction member, who becomes a de facto companion of sorts. I think. Then she turns into a TARDIS. Yes, a TARDIS. Don't ask.

Sam leaves at some point but I don't know when. Then, in The Ancestor Cell, the Doctor blows up the Faction and his home planet of Gallifrey, and as a result loses his memory of this whole incident, as well as who he is and what he does. In the next six books he wanders about Earth for 100 years not knowing who he is and not having a time machine, but it turns out it was in his pocket all along! And WHAM, suddenly his TARDIS grows to full size and he's a time traveller again.

In the next book he meets Anji Kapoor who becomes a companion that everyone hates. So for the next 3495703472309 books it's the Doctor, Fitz and Anji doing things in space and time, forgetting [or not knowing] Gallifrey's gone.

Then, in The Adventuress of Henrietta Street, some fat bloke called Sabbath is introduced, who does loads of evil things [don't ask me what, I'm only halfway through this book as we speak]. The 'Sabbath arc' continues on for some time, and by most accounts isn't very good. Halfway through this arc a woman called Beatrix stows away in the TARDIS Adric-style, and Anji leaves at some point. Eventually Sabbath is defeated or it turns out to be all just a dream or something.

So, currently we have the still-amnesiac eighth Doctor, Fitz, Trix and no Gallifrey. The Gallifrey Chronicles, the final book in the eighth Doctor series, is believed to wrap up the long-suspended Gallifrey plotline and somehow do away with both Trix and Fitz. Regeneration status is also not known, but it's believed there won't be one. It's out in June.

severely traumatised by her mother's casual reminder that there are shop window dummies all over the place in central Dublin

I was scared by these bits. I DO NOT LIKE things that shamble slowly towards you in an inexorable fashion.

Our Ed, who was looking forward to this as much as I was, was very disappointed that a consciousness able to control all plastic was only able to control showroom dummies and nothing else, and he wondered how many department stores really do have guns concealed in the hands of their mannequins? But I scoffed at him because I thought it was brilliant.

That's true. Anyway I loved 'Rose' to pieces; in fact so far I think it's the best first-Doctor story ever. Which is really saying something.

Only "An Unearthly Child" is a better opening IMO, though only if you consider the first episode there in isolation. ;)

xpost: I agree mostly, but Castrovalva horrifies me, not so much for the story as the execution. Bloody Nathan-Turner was in his "I'll change this fucker if it's the last thing I ever do" phase.

i liked wotan better though

Watching it again on BBC3 with a 60 year-old Eccleston hater and 29 year old nostalgia couldn't care-less-nik I did not feel embaressed and they really liked it. Though unanimous aprobation on the bin burp.

Castrovalva: Brilliant concepts though, the Escher city that doesn't actually exist... and the visualisation of *that* was rather good. Otherwise, I agree with you, production cock-ups do abound, as often in the era - including Anthony Ainley being encouraged by JNT to ham it up. I am sure that a good core of the story would stand up today, though indeed not all of the elements surrounding it.

Not sure about being to see the interior of the Tardis from the outside. But I hope to see a swimming pool in there somewhere along the line.

i teared up at that moment, first time in, w.the music and the slo-mo: i am sort of taking it for granted she will not like him much for some time to come (hoping really)

Are there any other rooms in this TARDIS?

russell td did really excellent stuff w.mobiles in QaF: will she be able still to get a signal wherever they're going?

(i mean i can txt rainy in dunedin)

when the speeded up shite came on, I flashed back to reading YOU denouncing speeded up shite as a lazy trick of loser video directors in a piece about Madonna's 'Ray Of Light' video.

This inconsistency proves that you have been replaced by an Auton.

http://www.cowestv.com/graham%20norton.jpg

Does anyone remember a 1960s/1970s story about a kid who travelled through space on a routemaster? He had a robot butler companion. I think it was in the Hotspur or some other DC Thomson 2nd division boy's comic. I promised to track it down for a friend who is writing a history of the Routemaster, but I have failed dismally.

no, was department store in cardiff (/swansea) which is why the premier was there.

> The London Eye gag was also grebt.

liked the way it looked like a halo around his head (ties in nicely with his last role as second coming). (that was sampled by Orbital on their last lp and the previous lp had dr who theme tune on it. coincidence or did they know something we didn't?)

If Orbital did know something, then I bet they feel let down about not doing the theme tune (though their version would not have fit the thirty second intro so fair do's).

The incidental music was both rub and very Doctor Who.

We have no indication that this is the ninth doctor. I'm just saying.

"Another serial had a group of 20th Century athletes whisked back in time on a time travelling bus to ancient Greece where they competed against the original Olympians."

http://www.ukgameshows.com/index.php/Time_Busters

http://www.freakytrigger.co.uk/see/2005_03_01_dys_archive.html#111212401603392858

-- ailsa (ailsa_watson7...), March 27th, 2005 2:39 PM. (ailsa) (later)

Also, a little in-jokey reference, no? Cos the first ever episode of Dr Who was transmitted the day after that, on Nov 23 1963.

We have no indication that this is the ninth doctor. I'm just saying.

The BBC has said many times he's the ninth. It might not get mentioned in the show for a while though, focus on the present first.

Are they all going to be 45 minutes (IE an hour for US rebroadcasting)?

Yep, and I think that's why, to make overseas sales easier.

The BBC has confirmed a second 13-part series as well as a Christmas special.

Writer Russell T Davies said: "It's fantastic news. It's been a tense and jittery time because the production team has been working on plans."

The production team said it was not known if Christopher Eccleston would return in the BBC Wales-made programme.

Flagship show

Eccleston and Billie Piper's first episode as the Doctor and Rose saw ratings as high as 10 million.

"We could all have ended up unemployed. But now we can put all those plans into action and get going," said Mr Davies.

"It's particularly good for BBC Wales. This is a major flagship show for the region, and their staff and crews are the best you could find. It's a tribute to them that Doctor Who is returning."

Mr Eccleston and Ms Pipers' contracts have options to appear in more series of the show.

BBC head of drama commissioning Jane Tranter told The Guardian she was happy to commission more episodes of the show after its debut success.

"In all honesty I had got myself into a proverbial steel jacket as far as Doctor Who was concerned. I told myself I'd be completely and utterly thrilled if it got 6.5 million, but there was a little voice inside whispering '4.5 million'," she said.

It means I can then have one degree of separation from Dr Who! (my husband went to school with him).

In jokes are wasted on me as I have never paid any proper attention to Dr Who before this weekend.

i am inclined to believe the reviewer wz given some bad information here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/newspapers/31_march_2005/html/9.stm

The sun and the mirror both claim Ecclestone has quit.

Still, interesting to see a Christmas episode confirmed, when the rumours about David Tennant I'd been hearing involved a Christmas regeneration...

this is bcz i want my friend P to play the next DW: she isn't a fan but i think she wd fkn ROCK!!

Next question: will he come back for the regeneration scene?

However, and without getting too anal, it's all muddied by the events of the Five Doctors. The Master is, at one point, offered what appears to be a way out of the regeneration cycle - to say nothing of Borussa's desire for immortality - which implies it's not the limitation we might expect it to be.

dude didn't bother to think about this before signing on and getting everyone's hopes up???

He's not leaving until Christmas, so his final episode hasn't even been written and shot yet. I"m sure they'll write a regeneration episode.

I wonder if announcing series 2 this early forced his hand viz. the press announcement - it might have been better to wait until halfway through transmission and the whole thing would have seemed a bit less chaotic.

To counter Tom's point above, I don't if it's the other way round and the Beeb's rather rushed confirmation of the second series is kneejerk 'good news' to counter the press running with Eccles quitting (which he would obviously have confirmed).

Aldo - good point.

David Tennant has a good face for it. He looks capable of space hijinks.

Idiot Question - was Richard E Grant being the eight Doctor in those online thingies?

That would be excellent. Maybe Kiefer Sutherland could quit '24' and become the next Doctor.

I guess we will now :)

- Dan Cruikshank;
- Anthony Head;
- Jose Mourinho;
- mark s.;
- Camille Paglia;
- Rowan Williams;
- Desmond Tutu;
- The Pinefox

If this had been a year ago everyone would have been "it's got to be David Walliams". They could undercut Ant&Dec more by casting Little Ant (and/or Dec). My vote would go for Olivia Colman

Only if they were smoking crack!

I know! the Dr Who internet guy from "Rose" - he's been in absolutely bloody everything. It can be like when Romana regenerated into Lady Astria.

I would have said Christopher Eccleston was a fairly bona fide British film and TV star by now, Tom. He's been rising for 10 years. I'm not surprised he's not staying. He's given the project a kick start, really high ratings, and some new credibility among people like, well, my mother (who watched Dr. Who for the first time in twenty years last week and will now continue to watch it).

If we can't have The Pinefox as The Doctor, I'd like to have Mark Williams, or maybe Gary Beadle (who used to play Paul Trueman on EastEnders). He would rule.

http://www.toonhound.com/chrisrabbit.gif

One thing guaranteed. It will not be Tennant. The BEeb can spin this story out for at least three months. How will Billie cope when they cast Chris Evans!

It will have to be a Scottish Doctor so Piper can tell people "Lots of planets have a Scotland."

Would anyone like to own that?

i have very vague recollections of going somewhere (blackpool?) and seeing this big doctor who exhibit but the only bit i really remember was that after walking around this huge space you exited via a door and when you looked around it was a tiny police box but they'd fit this whole exhibition in there... was clever.

ooh. the internet is great: http://www.drwhoexhibitions.co.uk/bpoolgallery.htm

1974... i am old.

OMG!!!! Buy your own dalek or Cyberman!

Let's hope none of this business puts anyone off enjoying the following 12 episodes for what they are; the timing has not been for the best, certainly... but I can't see the general goodwill and interest fading so soon.

I found out later that someone's boss ended up buying it. Can't for the life of me remember whose, though.

BBC Ceefax page 124, Friday

They are also in talks about bringing K9 back but as a Golden Retriver using Babe style/My Hero style lip-synching technology.

Billie Piper cannnot actually play the bagpipes.

When the Cybermen return they will all come from the west country and be called the Cidermen.

etc etc

Or how about actors with the same name as ex Doctor's but not related (a la Tom & Colin "My God He's Fat" Baker). So that would give us, er, Cheyrl Baker - er...

I think its unlikely, but ther eis absolutely no reason why it could not happen.

We should meet Susan again as a man first tho.

Dan Perry to thread!

The Doctor should regenerate into an ocelot.

he shd regenerate into a TARDIS!

I didn't enjoy this week so much. Still some nice touches, but Eccleston is grating already and I'll be wanting to punch him by the end of the series.

I thought it was good, the first five or so minutes were far too expository but then things rolled along nicely.

Well then good news!

Overall; great stuff: genuine sense of scale; the budget showed and it was firmly Dr Who in its contrary way with morality. Great skewering of the plastic surgery culture.

The mobile phone scene was great! I thought it might introduce a clever piece of technology which if used realistically could offer nasty plot hazards, but then I remembered the name for that sort of object is the "sonic screwdriver".

It reminded me of Douglas Adams, which was alright. I expected it (from the preview) to remind me of some of the more ridiculous Sylvester McCoy episodes.

I like bits of the TARDIS are very old technology. It's possibly a design decision, to increase your chances, if the rubber band goes "sprang!", to be able to repair it in whatever time you end up in. Or possibly that's already happened a hundred times.

The TARDIS itself is, on current and preview evidence, more well-behaved than usual. Is this the first companion that can actually treat the whole thing as a series of adventures and back home for tea? My recollection is that for the others, either they had nothing to return to, or the TARDIS was being the TARDIS.

I did not like a twist turning on the meaning of the word "meme", we get quite enough of that online thankyou.

I like the way they're keeping the old fans happy (or at least occupied) with this 'war' backstory to figure out.

And I liked the way the Doctor fancied the tree woman.

The little spiders in Minority Report (+ small, annoying robot in The Phantom Menace)? They worked quite well, overall. Not sure how they managed to drag the nice plumber girl into the air-duct though, but they were nicely malevolent. And when one of them activated the lowering of the sunshield (by pressing a button on the corner of a computer) you'd have thought the steward would have given more of a reaction than to just sit there and say "No! Sunshield up!" and wait to be fried. Still, inventive death, I approve.
I also liked the Doc's psychic passport thing - another neato 'cheat' ala TARDIS affecting brain so everyone speaks [either RP or estuary] English.

and: Oompah-Loompahs!

A little bit too much companion in peril, not enough "companion gonna sort it out".

According to the bloke who's written The Gallifrey Chronicles, it's nothing to do with the books at all. Which is nice.

I don't care how it's gone, as long as IT'S GONE!! I sodding HATE Gallifrey. "Our lord Borusa of the High Council of Time Lords with the Seal of Rassilon in the Time Chamber beneath the President of the Order of Mangafrax with a Time Lord Council of Big Plonkers Wank Wank Fucking Wank"

Yes the "strong companion" thing wasn't exactly visible.

RickyT: I am not up on my books continuity but I suspect the Real Fans will have spotted several story divergencies already.

xpost.

yes daleks are the one's what done it i reckon. bloody sontarans were rubbish at invading g. reckon time-tech daleks did it. yay. or the terrible zodin

What's wrong with that? Far too naff to have Doctors ass saved by spunky tomboy every week. They can take it in turns. It's not as if Rose is feebly 'girly' if that's what you're terrified of - she gave Cassandra an earful after all (not that she had ears, but y'know).

Eccleston said "You Lot" twice this week. I think its an in-joke/ Orbital ad.

I thought that the letting Zoe Wannamaker die aspect of the doctor was good stuff - suggested that he had a clear moral code but different to ours - galactic level right thing to do eg humans have become somehting different and better, time for last humang to go since demonstrated ethically bankrupt etc etc how could we know the Doctors complicated eon spanning perspective.

Was a war against HUMANGS that destroyed the TimeLords? They have touched every star in the sky you know.

As soon as I picked up on the set-up I thought: Milliways.

My favourite bit: the *slightly* psychic paper.

*shakes head*

I guess this was really Rose Part 2, showing her more of the Doctor's world, and making her question just why she went running off with a nutcase in a police box. Good stuff.

"Where am I going to go? Ipswich?" - last spoken by Kate Winslet in Dark Season, of course.

Is it wrong of me that I found the Tree woman extremely hot? Her "Your wife? Girlfriend? Concubine? Prostitute?" interrogation was funny and fun for all the family…

I'm torn on the Gallifrey front. While part of me would like the books and the series to tie-in and not contradict each other too much, I don't want the series to stop and explain The Ancestor Cell to viewers. Although I guess you could cut down a lot of the details: "Gallifrey's gone. I blew it up" would probably suffice.

I'm giddy about Dalek. I can't help the feeling that it's going to be a bit like Alien; an attempt to make them scare the viewers again. And next week, historical fun! woo!

The mobile phone scene and Zoe Wannamaker's Cassandra were definitely the best bits, insofar they marked the episode as being *of its time*. It really made me want to check out old episodes of Dr. Who on DVD in order to detect previous examples of that kind of thing.

= bad old rubbish. Talkative lower-class type with negative life span = good old rubbish.

"This... was known as an iPod"

which was about ten feet from "the ancients say this was the great city of wah-sing-ton" antics ie completely classic.

Top of the "i give up" list has to go this post http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.arts.drwho/msg/9c005f2e4adfc34d
"I've decided it's not drwho so I'm not letting it get to me. The novelty
will wear off and the only viewers left will be the jaded, undiscerning,
autistic nerd fan boys. Russels little project in gay activism will be added
to the pile along with all the other stupid trash that has happened since
1980. I'm certain that if I were gay I'd find this attempt at gay sci/fi to
be ill concieved. Bad is bad. I just wish all this really phenomenal
lameness hadn't happened to a show that once got me in front of the tv"

Eccles just looks like a dork. Dork is the only word for it. He looks like a dork. His jacket is dorky looking. He looks like a dork in the role. It's as though the editor for reality itself has suddenly come down with schizophrenia. It just doesn't make sense. It doesn't flow aesthetically. Something is wrong in the universe. It's as though the archetype for "that which is self aware" has been created now, long after the concept of a peice of art being self aware was first known. I can't really think of anything that is more self conscious than this newWho. The whole thing and all the little bits that make it up; the theme, the art design, the actors, the writing, all are splayed out wide eyed, necks craning forward straining to be a commercial for the thing itself - and especially after everything that has happened - a show that stood apart from ordinary television, partly on purpose, but mostly an accident of history, and then suddenly became a
prostitute with way too much make up that is smeared, to being a stark unbelievable parody of itself. And then the TVM - and now this! Drwho has definitely taken a fascinating place in tv history; it will definitly be something for scholars to talk about. I wonder if they'll blame it on the phenomenon of hard core fans, autistic nerds, socially stunted with no aesthetic sense or discernment but a rabid appetite for "gooniness"...

Ratings lost 3 million. How much was that due to Ecclestone quitting and the surrounding bad publicity?

I'm sure it meant many people didn't think it was worth watching because they didnt see the point as the actor had quit.

xpost and Pete is right, the first show was always going to get a much higher rating, just because of all the advertisements.

(however, it does indicate an upcoming episode featuring Tamsin Greig and Simon Pegg, together with Gay Todd from Coronation Street)

Should I be worried yet by the lack of cliffhangers? It's so long since I watched Dr. Who, I can't remember if every single story was at least two parts. If they're going to wrap everything up in 45 minutes, we'll never have anything to look forward to.

Dear Russel T Davies, whatever it is you are doing that annoys Dr Who freaks so much, please, please, please continue.

Innit great? I love it when the fannies run around with their pants on fire.

Ratings lost 3 million. How much was that due to Ecclestone quitting and the surrounding bad publicity?

Nah. Last week's was always going to be high because loads of people tuned in out of curiosity. 7.2 million is still an amazing figure [around 80% audience retention], and far better than the 4 million Julie Gardner was hoping for. If it stays around 7 million it'll be on telly for a very long time.

I really didn't like The Last Human bit. Women with too much plastic surgery is too obvious a schtick (see also Brazil) and irked me as a cheap sexist joke.

I'm still waiting for the series to settle into itself, it's still too much "explanation and catchup for people new to it all". Perhaps next week's Victorian episode will go more Talons of Weng Chi-ang.

I'm still going to keep watching it. I've watched Dr. Who my entire life with a forgivenes of its fault and not going to stop that now.

see, i thought that too but thought it was a nice nod to DNA.

fave bits: Rose refering to Cassandra variously as 'Michael Jackson' and 'A Bitchy Trampoline'.

the big fans were very Banjo Kazooie.

Guardian seemed to suggest that 'Moxx of Balhoun' was some kind of pun but i can't figure it out. i R stupid.

Oh, a bitchy drag queen. Even better.

I'm not sold on the Steampunk TARDIS. I loved the way it looked so pristine and SPACE in the original series. But then again, if Dr. has been running around in it for thousands of years, it might get a bit... dirty. (Same reason I've always preferred Babylon 5 to Star Trek - the spaceships are *dirty* like real craft would be.)

I was a bit disappointed by locking Rose in a box for half the episode. Sure, it meant the Dr. got to run around with the Forest of Cheam woman but it was a bit "damsel in distress". Are they going to try and make a jealousy issue to bring Dr. and companion closer together?

(being a pervert formalist i enjoy the "handling" of this of course)

i promised you mobile action and it wz delivered!!

and haha yay TOXIC!! does RTD read FT or WHAT??!!

No, haven't you heard, the Doctor is no longer a Time Lord - he's now a Gay Lord thanks to Russel T Davies and his meddling pervert ways! Why oh why must he thrust his salty gayness down my guzzling throat?

I hope the Xmas special will feature Kylie as Queen of the Galaxy. The Dr must defeat her so that he can become Queen of the Galaxy!! With feather boas, glitter, an army of leather joy-boys and a disco soundtrack, yes!
I mean, I hope that doesn't happen, obviously.

good moment of incompatible tech-morality ["updates are good hence whatever my machine does must be good"] = billie cross that the tardis translates in her head w/o knowing

(also still unanswered: DID BILLIE LIVE IN PECKHAM?)

I thought the "updates are good" thing was quite funny, though, poor beleagured helpdesk types. The "I can't speak unless you give me permission" was just unnecessary OOOH! RAH!!! WORKING CLASS COMPANION!!!! OOOOOH!!! which only backfired.

x-post

Billie was on a 12. Of course Billie lived in Peckham.

(not least bcz this gives much continuity-related scope for fucking with all the "is he 8th or 9th regen" tedium)

i. requires that bbc always knew he wz leavin after one series (which i also think is possible)

plot = the metaplot as regards the doctor's attitude to his back story: "Yeah, some stuff happened. Fuck it. Do you want to see something cool?"

i foresee problems with wheelchair access...

(OK, obviously human trampolines will require attendents, but she had a TELEPORTATION device.)

haha is ken still mayor of london in the year 5 billion! (i spect yes)

(I still think he should be Scottish.)

Also brilliant: his rage after returning to the observation deck (I may have mentally inserted some swearing, unless he actually said "I'm fucking full of ideas").

xpost - RJG for next Doctor!

(Similarly wasn't the Forest of Cheam also a medieval hunting forest in Essex?)

David Tennant is Scottish. Pete will have his wish, and I can still have one degree of separation from Doctor Who. Everyone (except you lot who don't want Tennant) will be a winner. Especially Tennant, who used to go to school in a Peter Davison-esque cricket sweater, and had a Tom Baker-esque scarf and was generally a bit of a Doctor Who freak at school.

Is Eccleston going to be around/come back to film his regeneration into someone else?

three very good reasons it shd go to SOMEONE ELSE surely!!

I don't really care if David Tennant gets it, but he is very watchable and surely "gets" Doctor Who, if that is in any way important. And, most importantly, I can relate second-hand tales of his schooldays.

Yeah, christmas special.

(xpost)

1) Rose is fucking awesome.
2) Zoe Wannamaker is fucking awesome.
3) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA THE "iPod"!!!!!!!
4) Best Doctor ever? Possibly.
5) There is a reason I no longer post to rec.arts.drwho. I think some of you are discovering it for yourselves.
6) I will try to post some book reviews this weekend. Honest.
7) I FUCKING LOVE THIS SHOW!!!!!!

[xpost]

they had agreed he'd go in january!

this sounds like corrective PR to me but maybe not.

hahaha, there was also a time when Douglas Adams invented memes instead of recycling them from old Doctor Who scripts! Hello there Dirk Gently!

Where'd you find them?

Actually a mate did it for me, I don't have broadband. How/when do you want 'em?

"at all" as in "more likely than the fact that a humanoid alien with two hearts would have a time machine disguised to look like a police-only telephone box from 1962" or "at all" as in "less likely than the fact that a humanoid alien with two hearts would have a time machine disguised to look like a police-only telephone box from 1962"

"Doctor Who succeeded in the past partly thanks to the flamboyance of actors who played the part, notably Mr Tom Baker. The latest incarnation, however, turns him into a rather nondescript character with crew-cut, northern accent and shiny leather jacket. No offence to actor Christopher Eccleston, but he looks too much like those men you see sitting outside cafes in Old Compton Street, Soho."

like sylvester mckoy?

blue faced woman was beccy armory and i think the answer to 'where have i seen her before' is probably 'Harry and Cosh'

her imdb entry in full:

1 "Family" (2003/II) (mini) TV Series .... Martine
2 Ashes and Sand (2002) .... Jo
3 "Harry and Cosh" (1999) TV Series .... Lara

i'm told it starts tonight on CBC for Canadians / lucky North Americans

On the episode itself, I thought it was... OK. Far too much of a nod to Restaurant At The End Of The Universe, and the 45 minute length struggles again with plot development. Where was the detecting element? Plus the big reset switch was just plain silly. What was the Face Of Boe for, other than a (presumably very) expensive prop? Plus RTD shouting I PWN POP CULTURE, LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!111!!ONE!! is only entertaining for a while (and I possibly blew out my RTD valve for the moment with Casanova). Bring on the other writers.

On the plus side, I'm hugely enjoying the fanwank surrounding this potential Time War.

unfortunately, I meant does anyone think it is at all likely that the BBC will say, at the end of this new dr. who series, "yes, it wasn't dr. who"? I feel like I'm being silly.

Four words: Bobby In The Shower.

*and a billion whofanvoices cried out, and were suddenly silent*

The new series doesn't feel very like any previous Doctor Who, in fact the 2nd episode reminded me more of 2000AD than Doctor Who. This isn't an awful thing. One of the things fans keep saying about DW is that it's an incredibly flexible show that can encompass a huge range of styles and moods. This is true, especially if you don't add the implied caveat "but this range was set in stone by '89".

From the direction at that point, I get the distinct impression it was meant to be. Although him gliding through that last fan was just stupid.

What was the Face Of Boe for, other than a (presumably very) expensive prop?

Probably a recurring character/species. Hope so. The face looks like someone I know and gives me the willies.

The ABC bought it. Will go out in mid-May.