C/D The US expecting the rest of the world to know everything about its culture/geography/politics but not reciprocating

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Inspired by this post in Calum's movie thread:

I think it's interesting that Calum uses peculiarly British slang and references British personalities more than almost anyone else on here. I mean, on one hand, it doesn't seem like that big a deal -- he's Scottish, that's how he talks -- but on the other, in the context of ILX, it's sort of indicative of a blinkered, solipsistic worldview, uninterested in actually engaging with others.

-- jaymc, February 14th, 2005 4:18 AM.

Based on what that appears to say, 'the context of ILX' is all about US culture. Despite the fact that ILX is located in Australia and [as per my understanding] originated on a UK website, and is host to the reach of the internet, i.e. at least 95% of the world's countries. Yet jaymc seems to be suggesting we should abandon our respective cultures and arbitrarily act like US people, because somehow anything else is inappropriate. Personally I find this notion wholly offensive. If anyone here is blinkered and solipsistic, it's certainly not Calum for acting like the Brit he is.

There's an unspoken global assumption that the United States is the centre of the world. On an international level, loads of US people discuss their own country in such a way that the other 95% of the world either does or should know exactly what they're talking about, without any frame of reference whatsoever [fortunately this is not as pronounced on ILX; most of the time, all parts of the world are regarded equally here]. Conversely, many people outside the US treat the US exactly the same way. There's absolutely no sound reason for it.

Against my intentions this will probably make a lot of people irate [and is obviously a generalisation -- I know for a fact there are people in the US who are not like this], but bugger it, it's a very, very pertinent issue and nobody ever talks about it. I hope it can be discussed sensibly.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't really take on the whole issue, bc it's something I think everyone is guilty of, regardless of whatever demographic - there are certain parts of one's life that one considers "default" and/or "obvious". But on this basis, you can pretty much account for most all misunderstandings about anything.

Having spent most of my life in Baltimore, it's refreshing in a sense that now that I live in London, almost no one has any idea where I'm talking about when they ask where in the US I'm from. But on the other hand, I don't know as much about UK geography as I should, either. I guess if I stayed here for a bunch more years (and FINALLY escaped the gravitational pull of London), I'd get that part down.

I think that these misunderstandings and assumptions also recede the more one is exposed to cultural differences. The internet is not really going to bring people closer in this respect, because we are all still embedded in a physically immersed culture. On the other hand, it can be argued that those who live in smaller countries more necessarily have to look at those on the outside. It's easy to never leave a country as huge as the US, save for a few tourist ventures of no intellectual or more importantly experiential importance. So no understanding.

Wait, did I just answer a question I said I wasn't going to?

― Girolamo Savonarola, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:09 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm trying to see where he says the context of ilx is all about us culture or where he says anything you accuse him of saying. you've been freaking out alot lately about things people aren't actually saying - is everything ok?

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:09 (twenty-one years ago)

i post articles about US politics since what happens in american politics has a way of fucking with people everywhere else in the anglosphere...

― Kingfish MuffMiner 2049er (Kingfish), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:10 (twenty-one years ago)

dud. tho i think it's quite a stretch that ilx is "all about" us culture.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:10 (twenty-one years ago)

also, kingfish is right in a sense, tho it's really more the entire world that is unfortunately affected by american politics, not just "the anglosphere."

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:13 (twenty-one years ago)

i think ilx's strength is that "it" insists (or at least will give you the best s/n ratio) if you figure out as much as you can about all kinds of culture/geography/politics.

― f--gg (gcannon), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:15 (twenty-one years ago)

hstencil: That's how jaymc's post sounds, but I'd like to hear his explanation before jumping to conclusions.

Kingfish: US politics definitely has more influence on the rest of the world than some individual countries [Australia is a prime example; our government has half the influence Bush has on us] so I see your point there.

f-gg: Yep [for the most part], and that's what I really appreciate about this site.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:16 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost: that was hella middlebrow, wunnit.

― f--gg (gcannon), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:16 (twenty-one years ago)

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:19 (twenty-one years ago)

i dunno, aa, i don't know the context of jaymc's post, nor would i feel comfortable ascribing any intentions to it. just taken it as it reads, with no knowledge of context or intent, it just sounds kinda doofy, and not particularly american-jingoistic nor xenophobic.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:19 (twenty-one years ago)

To me it sounds like he's criticising British Calum for acting British.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:21 (twenty-one years ago)

f-gg I find myself having to decipher foreign references/frames of reference constantly to keep up around here, and your comment summed that up nicely. It's not a, howyousay, A-level formulation at all.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:22 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost - that's why it reads kinda doofy.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:22 (twenty-one years ago)

aa do you really think calum isn't blinkered or solipsistic? i mean from what i can gather you don't mind people 'acting' whatever their nationality is unless they're american.

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:23 (twenty-one years ago)

OOPS
I'm from the U.S., which should NOT go without saying

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't say that.
xpost

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

i have a hard time conceiving of calum as "british" or "scottish." usually i think of him as more "moronic," which knows no nationality.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:25 (twenty-one years ago)

well you're criticising 'americans' for acting like america is the center world and then freaking out when someone (an american gasp!) criticises someone for acting like britain is the centre of the world - which centres of the world are ok to pretend exist? obv. the us is a no and the uk a yes but what are some others (are there others?).

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:26 (twenty-one years ago)

And to be fair to Adam in case anyone else wants to have a go at him, it was me who showed him that post, and me who initially took umbrage to it, for much the same reasons.

Case in point is the american politics Jeremy mentions upthread: sure yes, it is nice to be kept abreast of what may affect a lot of the rest of the world, when the politics are global. But very often, senators etc are mentioned with no frame of reference and long discussions go on about them - I have no idea who this Keyes guy is whose daughter is out., and nor would many in Aus I imagine.

One of the mongrels started a thread recently about something specific to Australia that got mocked by someone else (I forget who, a UKian I think) for being boring. Sure, fine - as boring as impenetrable threads about baseball are to us...

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:27 (twenty-one years ago)

so basically what you're asking for is dumbing down?

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:28 (twenty-one years ago)

If you're going to read things into what I said [again], I can't really defend it, can I?

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:29 (twenty-one years ago)

some background info on Alan Keyes from almost 5 years ago, when Michael Moore got him to stagedive into a crowd

― Kingfish MuffMiner 2049er (Kingfish), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Blount I suspect yr missing the point also, somehow, also you appear to want to engage in a fight and muddy what should be a thoughtful discussion. I dont think you really understand how it is for people like Australians, who are forcefed very little but US and UK culture in our media every day, and yet are somehow meant to be ashamed of our own voice and culture.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:30 (twenty-one years ago)

jblount are you trying to say criticizing? I think that's where the confusion's coming from.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Well said Trayce.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Not dumbing down. Just perhaps acknowledging that the whole world doesn't know (for example) who your senators are.

― kate/papa november (papa november), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Blount we dont NEED a dumbing down - we know far more about US everything than a) you would about us and b) we really want to, not that the media lets us otherwise have it.

Also what Kate said.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Could we start a thread on Cornelia Rau, and assume everyone would know what that was about? Id like to think everyone should- its a shameful and important story - but if we just started it as "so, Ms Rau, whats that all about?" with a link and no explanation, a lot of people would shrug and ignore it.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:34 (twenty-one years ago)

(thats just an example)

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Trayce OTM

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:34 (twenty-one years ago)

PEOPLE OF THE WORLD AND/OR ILX:

THE MOLTEN CORE IS THE CENTER OF THE WORLD. ONLY THE MORLOCKIANS LIVE THERE. ALL OTHER NATIONS CAN QUIT PRETENDING THAT THEY ARE THE CENTER. SO JUST CHILL OUT, SPARK UP, AND WATCH THE DOG SHOW (IF YOU HAVE CABLE).

PEACE.

― hstencil, morlockian diplomat (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:35 (twenty-one years ago)

A prime example is when people talk about Georgia. Naturally I think of the country Georgia, but too frequently it's the US state. In the past I've been derided for even suggesting it might have been the country.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaha I love you stence.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:36 (twenty-one years ago)

The dog show isn't being broadcast on cable in my country :)

― kate/papa november (papa november), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:36 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean i'm usually grateful when reading british political threads that they don't bother to stop and explain every little thing to whoever might be lurking, i can get background info from plenty of other sources, i don't need ilxors to stop dead in their tracks and imitate sixth grade civics teachers for my benefit (UNLESS I ASK THEM TO HINT HINT)(ie did you ask anyone who alan keyes is?). i also acknowledge that i and i'm guessing other american ilxors maybe perhaps don't know as much or follow british politics as much as, say, the british and hence don't barge in on any and every british political and ignore whatever is going on in the conversation to spout my halfassed "theories" and then demand the thread become about that. may the day come that american political threads can claim the same honor.

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I wish there was a dog show on pay TV here!

blount OTM.

― haitch (haitch), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I LOVE YOU TOO, TRAYCE. MAYBE, AS MORLOCKIAN DIPLOMAT, I CAN GET A CHEAPER FARE BY TRAVELLING THROUGH THE CORE TO VISIT YOUR BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY WITH ITS FINE WOMEN, SMELLY DINGOS, BEAUTIFUL COUNTRYSIDE, AND OTHER VARIOUS AUSTRALIAN THINGS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO READ MORE ABOUT ON ILX.

OKAY EVERYBODY, I APOLOGIZE FOR THE CAPS.

PEACE.

― hstencil, morlockian diplomat and lover of foxy australians (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, but we *have* had furriners barge into our Aussie threads and call them boring, obscure or ask what the hell.

I have done it on other threads if many are spawning and assumptions all is known are being made, but a lot of people take the piss if you dare to ask certain things, and whos to know whats known and whats not?

(xpost thats to blount)

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:39 (twenty-one years ago)

OTM.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, that last sentence of mine was rather awkwardly phrased. I have a hangover.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.google.com/

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)

ignore whatever is going on in the conversation to spout my halfassed "theories" and then demand the thread become about that

though i did have fun when i changed some calum thread into being about Madchester photos

― Kingfish MuffMiner 2049er (Kingfish), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)

whos to know whats known and whats not

OMG Ive turned into Donald Rumsfeld.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, but we *have* had furriners barge into our Aussie threads and call them boring, obscure or ask what the hell.

But we had an Australian do the same thing!!

― haitch (haitch), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:42 (twenty-one years ago)

OK blount we get the point - so why did jaymc have to say Calum was using words like "squaddies" because he was being parochial and had no world view? Would anyone else who used the phrase be mocked, or was this just a bad call, and should instead have been a go at Calumn and not parochialism?

I dont think we need to ignore or not understand other countries. I do like to think we can, however, speak in our own voices and not get shit for it.

xpost haha wtf H who did that?

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Yep. jaymc said:

I think it's interesting that Calum uses peculiarly British slang and references British personalities more than almost anyone else on here.

If that were an attack on anything else, jaymc would have said something else. Wouldn't he?

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know what the answer to all this is.

I just worry when I know who Obama and Keyes is and the names of the first daughters and yet when I went to vote in my own country I didn't know who anyone was except the prime minister and the leader of the opposition.

I don't know who my minister of defense is but I know America's. Maybe i'm ignorant, I'm certainly not blaming these things i've mentioned on ilx. It's just peculiar is all.

― kate/papa november (papa november), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:45 (twenty-one years ago)

There feels to be a definite hierachy here, US > UK > OZ > NZ. There also feels to be a 'don't muddy up the New Answers with your colonial twitterins, unless yr from hipsterburg/wooton faggoting, then come to our a-team theme party/clickclack records launch, bring yr iPods d00ds!'.

― Michael Stuchbery (Mikey Bidness), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know who my minister of defense is but I know America's.

I think US politics is more relevant to us as Australians than our own politicians. Given that Howard has all but toed the US line since Bush got in.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I realise to some we might sound defensive, and to be honest I dont think we're defensive ENOUGH. We sit back and choke on it every day that "good" TV shows and "good" movies all come out of the US. We have to listen to our own people laugh at Casey Chambers and 1200 Techniques because "omg haha theyre singing in aussie accents, thats so stupid!". We do it to ourselves, we do. And thats what really etc etc.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:47 (twenty-one years ago)

But yes, I see your point about our knowledge of US politics vs knowledge of our own.
[xpost]

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I realise to some we might sound defensive

US people can be pretty defensive about their culture as well. I think all people are, and I think that's good.

We have to listen to our own people laugh at Casey Chambers and 1200 Techniques because "omg haha theyre singing in aussie accents, thats so stupid!".

I can't put into words how much that pisses me off.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:49 (twenty-one years ago)

There feels to be a definite hierachy here, US > UK > OZ > NZ.

whatever, finland owns ilx what with tuomas and his studly black undies.

seriously, i don't get what we're arguing about here.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll be honest and say I know as much of fuck all abt US politics as I do abt Australian.

Ask me abt US vs Aus TV tho? More depressing.

Still, you guys invented Futurama and for that, I forgive all.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:49 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe you should write to the australian broadcasting network and ask them to start producing some shows of higher quality then, instead of complaining to america that its shows dominate your airwaves. though i really like home and away.

― phil-two (phil-two), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Sad fact; The US is global power. Our bullshit matters more than your bullshit. Like it, hate it, there it is.

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:51 (twenty-one years ago)

The ABC gets bugger-all funding. And the ABC runs 90% UK content anyway, which can get bloody annoying too.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:52 (twenty-one years ago)

to be honest I dont think we're defensive ENOUGH

Yeah which is why we had to start one of the longest running country-centric threads on ilx. It's constantly at the top of the list, but we felt we had to create this insular little place because of the inevitable wtf's we'd get from people if we started our topics in their own respective threads.

― kate/papa november (papa november), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Phil: that is sadly one of the biggest problems we have at the moment.

The ABC is perhaps the only station that does run a lot of quality local shows, being govt run - the 3 commercial stations have however had a recent history of local drama crashing and burning (haha! See what I did there) badly, over and over, yet shows like the OC and Charmed and L&O/CSI etc do very very well.

It, and Aus cinema, are in a low at present, and really I dont know whats to be done there.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Orbit, global power != culturally more important

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:52 (twenty-one years ago)

yup. sadly

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I for one just want to say I dont mean to sound like I am complaining or knocking the US at all (if anyone else is, good luck to them). I just think it is a thing worth pondering.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I know you agree Orbit :)

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Against my intentions this will probably make a lot of people irate [and is obviously a generalisation -- I know for a fact there are people in the US who are not like this]

you should probably stick to having a go at the individuals who do this rather than the rest of us, then. with a few exceptions (eg JW periodically calling europeans fags or something similarly stupid) i think the yanquis on ilx have a fairly cosmopolitan worldview.

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:54 (twenty-one years ago)

We sit back and choke on it every day that "good" TV shows and "good" movies all come out of the US.

who on ilx is doing this?

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah exactly. Part of me wonders if we, through years of conditioning have brought it on ourselves. Calum uses his vernacular without fear, we avoid starting Auscentric threads because of the prodding and harranguing we assume we'll suffer.

― kate/papa november (papa november), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)

wtf who cares about tv anyways? unless it's the dog show, wrestling, or basketball. oh and "law and order" is cool. i bet an australian version would be fun to watch.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:56 (twenty-one years ago)

well okay. lets talk about cricket! my favorite is that australian bowler who got caught taking diet pills - and then i think he got in trouble for calling the pakistani team some bad names like pakis or towelheads or something.

― phil-two (phil-two), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:56 (twenty-one years ago)

"LAW AND ORDER: SPECIAL AUSSIE UNIT" starring Paul Hogan, Jock-o, Kylie Minogue, etc.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:56 (twenty-one years ago)

huh? I don't harangue the endless British football threads, why would anyone harangue an Aussie thread.

PS I still want to see your embroidered penis.

― Orbit (Orbit), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:57 (twenty-one years ago)

It's not an ILX thing mookieproof, it's an Australian thing. Most of our best entertainment products are from the US. Having a prime minister who's hell-bent on eroding our culture at the expense of US culture doesn't help.

Definitely. I even said as much in the opening post.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:57 (twenty-one years ago)

who on ilx is doing this?

By "we" I meant Australians in general, I thought it was clear the discussion is taking a broader POV than just ILX's little room.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:58 (twenty-one years ago)

oh and russell crowe could do his own "law and order: ci" spinoff a la vincent d'onofrio.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:58 (twenty-one years ago)

"LAW AND ORDER: SPECIAL AUSSIE UNIT" starring Paul Hogan, Jock-o, Kylie Minogue, etc.

Hogan hasn't been relevant in any sense since the early '90s, and I have no idea who Jock-O is.

Trayce: Yep

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Assume was the operative word there Orbit :)

I sold the penis long ago, I'm sorry I forgot to show you, but flattered you remembered it :)

― kate/papa november (papa november), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:59 (twenty-one years ago)

"LAW AND ORDER: SPECIAL AUSSIE UNIT" starring Paul Hogan, Jock-o, Kylie Minogue, etc.

Argh why do you guys always pick the most obvious, and washed up stars ;P (j/k)

and who the hell's jock-o? ;P

XPOST DAMMIT ADAM GET OUT OF MY BRANE

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)

ahahahaha

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I similarly think people are referring to London, Ontario when they say "London"

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)

o yeah i mean i somewhat try to post how i talk or replicate using maths or something, i don't what the fuck i'm saying half the time, and speaking in own voices definitely to be encouraged/tolerated/celebrated. i suspect this is pretty much him having a go at calum. ignoring other countries = bad of course obv if only cuz you're limiting choices, and there's definitely a 'you yanks are too dumb to appreciate the libertines' and 'us yanks were too smart to fall for dance music' thing that eminates (gah i am sleepy and will not sleep) from certain sectors (the first pretty often from calum for example so while saying 'brit slang is symptomatic of parochialism' it's not the same as saying 'calum's brit slang is symptomatic of his parochialism' (and to be honest i'm not sure jaymc is saying anything anyone's said he's said on this thread). fwiw i find britishisms creeping into my speech and writing all the time - i know i use the word 'jolly' alot more than a normal georgian (that'd be the state there aa)(in the united states)(of america) of my age, whatever.

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)

why did all the aussie shows on the commercial networks crash & burn? did they suck?

― phil-two (phil-two), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:01 (twenty-one years ago)

(btw, im the north american sales rep for an aussie fashion label, so u cant accuse me of not spreading australialian culture!)

― phil-two (phil-two), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess all anyone can do here is discuss this, rather than complain - this is something the media here navel-gazes about all the damn time to be honest. Especially about the media and esp the movie industry. Five-ten years back we were the darlings of hollywood, and now everyone is grasping at Nic Kidman's burps because all the other films we're making are shit.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I similarly think people are referring to London, Ontario when they say "London"

Yeah that's another one. There are Londons everywhere.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:02 (twenty-one years ago)

it's days like today that make me wish ilx was truly more diverse and had users that posted in more than one language and from more countries.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Phil: some did yeah (one was called Crashburn, hilariously). But importantly also, the local shows get bad timeslots, up against big rating US shows, or on late at night :/ I dunno, the media would blame the public, so how do we beat it?

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:03 (twenty-one years ago)

(Actually I don't really, I was just making merry)

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Adam: come on, you are being disingenious with your Georgia comment ;P Admit it.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Jocko was this blond buzzcutted Australian idiot who starred in US commercials for either batteries or soda iirc

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:04 (twenty-one years ago)

http://ilx.p3r.net/newquestions.php?board=8

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:04 (twenty-one years ago)

stence: there's a whole dutch board, if you feel like learning! ;P

xpost no, that was Mark "Jacko" Jackson. Ex footy player.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh *Jacko*? Dumb pretend-football player I think. I still don't get how he became famous in Australia, let alone anywhere else.

xpost BRANE

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Heh. Must be the proximity ;)

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, it's just interesting to discuss rather than hang shit on people/countries because just thinking about it has made me face up to a huge number of contradictions in my own head regarding it all.

Such as:

Are Australian TV shows shit? Is it Australian peoples fault they prefer the superior American product? Or do Australian viewers like the shows because they're positioned by the media to like the American product more? It's not like the cultural cringe isn't alive and well on some level in 90% of the Australian population.

― kate/papa november (papa november), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:06 (twenty-one years ago)

jock-o was this obnoxious aussie dude with spiky blonde hair who pitched batteries in the us. nobody in australia has ever heard of him.

maybe we should start a thread about made up celebrities and cultural traditions from specific nationalities? like how if you sing "edelweiss" to an austrian they'll think you're nuts?

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:06 (twenty-one years ago)

hstencil i lurked on a french board earlier today trying to find some info about this postop girl group. not sure if it counts as lurking if all the posts are three years old and i can't read a word of them but i stared at the screen for a few minutes!

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:07 (twenty-one years ago)

FANNY ON ME GRAN AUS WILLY?

― GARU G, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:08 (twenty-one years ago)

There's a feeling that US culture is the be-all and end-all, yeah, definitely. Loads of ads we get are US ads, loads of AUSTRALIAN ads are spoken by people FAKING US accents, and there's a perception that US shows are somehow more sophisticated than what we produce here. I think it's the responsibility of everyone to open their bloody eyes and evaluate things for themselves.

Remember the pounding New Zealand's Shortland Street got when it went to air in Australia? Totally unfounded, considering it was no worse than Neighbours, Home & Away, etc.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Also I've noticed an increasing number of Australians pronounce the letter Z as 'zee'.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Stence we just told you its Jacko not Jocko and we all know who he is and wish he didnt exist ;P

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:11 (twenty-one years ago)

and I so smelled vindication...

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:13 (twenty-one years ago)

eh, trayce, who cares? he's australian.

KIDDING PLS DON"T KILL ME THINK OF THE FUNNY MOLTEN CORE POSTS FROM EARLIER.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Here have a valentines day snog.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:28 (twenty-one years ago)

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:28 (twenty-one years ago)

btw, alan keyes is NOT a US senator. thank gawd.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:33 (twenty-one years ago)

SPENGLER SAYS EUROPE IS A TOMB

― f--gg (gcannon), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Classic!

(In the sense that, since we (the US) are all so stupid to be in such monolithic debt (what's the govt. up to now, borrowing-wise, three or four billion $$$$$$$$$ a day?) we're the best culture of consumers in the world; so everybody better see things our way, if only to sell shit to us.)

― "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:35 (twenty-one years ago)

See I didnt even know what Keyes was... god I dont even know much about yr structure. What is he if not a senator? Apart from being a raving psycho fundie that is.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:41 (twenty-one years ago)

no, raving psycho fundie is now what he is. professionally.

― f--gg (gcannon), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:44 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost - he ran for senator, but nobody voted for him. he has never been a senator.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:44 (twenty-one years ago)

that's all he is! he's not actually a religious leader either, he's just an asshole. there was this great show, well "great", a few years back he hosted called, no kidding, 'alan keyes is actually making sense'. he managed to score an ambassador gig - big whoop - during reagan's second term i think, that's the highest position he's held.

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:46 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, he's never been elected to shit.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 03:46 (twenty-one years ago)

apropos to nothing, but it IS american apparently:

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/images/weitekbright.jpg

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 04:07 (twenty-one years ago)

http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/raijanair/images/gicecream.jpg

Have a gaytime!

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 04:19 (twenty-one years ago)

It seems weird to bitch about US-centrism on a webboard that seems largely concerned with british and european dance pop these days.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 04:31 (twenty-one years ago)

usa number 1!

― phil-two (phil-two), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 04:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Poly: eh I wouldnt know, I dont read ILM.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 04:33 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, pity poly's not telling the truth

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 04:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Poly: eh I wouldnt know, I dont read ILM.

Hmm, is there a difference in point-of-view between ILM and ILE? I haven't noticed it yet, but I haven't been here that long.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 04:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't read ILM much either.

― kate/papa november (papa november), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 04:41 (twenty-one years ago)

ILM rules. Down with ILE.

― ILMist, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 04:43 (twenty-one years ago)

this postop girl group

post op? As in post-op trannie?

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 04:45 (twenty-one years ago)

do you all hate freedom?

― latebloomer: HE WHOM DUELS THE DRAFGON IN ENDLESS DANCE (latebloomer), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 04:51 (twenty-one years ago)

toro: yes! they were called shemale. a bit tough googling info on them.

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 05:01 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG TURN IT TO TURNER CLASSICS

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 05:01 (twenty-one years ago)

dude, i don't get that on basic cable!

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 05:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Because of course it is Monday night in Australia, and we have the same cable stations as everyone else :/

(you see? ;) etc etc)

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 05:18 (twenty-one years ago)

don't worry, i am not going to start a thread about it.

HA.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 05:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Watch it you ;)

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 05:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I find it outrageous that Jaymc was called out on this thread as some kind of cultural imperialist for saying little more than Calum sounds extremely provincial.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, but you're American, Spence. ;)

― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Based on what that appears to say, 'the context of ILX' is all about US culture ------ I have no clue how you arrived at that conclusion from what he said. Are you assuming that because jaymc is American he must think that?

― ()ops (()()ps), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Also I've noticed an increasing number of Australians pronounce the letter Z as 'zee'.

I have noticed that Australians are becoming more and more American in pronunciation etc

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

As I understand it, Jaymc is a bon vivant and cosmopolitan man of the world. The quote was completely misinterpreted, and untrue assumptions were made about where he is coming from and what he is saying. His real attitude should be apparent from skimming just a few of his random posts. The fact that the criticism of Jaymc came with a defense of that other "regular" poster is doubly ridiculous.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Calum would consider himself Scottish rather than British and would take offence at being called British him being an SNP voter.

― Andy Jay, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Is he an SNP supporter?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Whoa! I just noticed this thread! Okay, will have to read through it now.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, so let me say:

I have no problem with British posters talking on a British politics thread without explaining everything for the benefit of non-British posters. I have no problem with the Mongrels and Sheepfuxors thread.
I like learning new things about other cultures and relish the fact that ILX allows me to do so. I'd have thought this was all obvious.

My observation about Calum (and it's an observation, not an actual problem, I mean jeez I could care less how Calum acts) -- is simply that he seems so desperate to engage people and wind people up with his tomfoolery but ironically a good number of us don't even know what he's banging on about!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, I'd love to weigh in on the pros and cons of Holly Valance's semi-nude body, but I've never actually seen a photo of the woman in my life!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I would have thought that was pretty clear from the context of your post, jaymc.

― Leon the Fatboy (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Here ya go:

http://pictures.celebscentral.net/hollyvalance/60.jpg

Safe for work, just too massive to post.

― kate/papa november (papa november), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:45 (twenty-one years ago)

haha ending your post "banging on about" = brilliant, jaymc!

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I do sometimes get this creeping sense of embarrassment at people talking in plucky Brit-isms on multi-cultural boards, moreso when it seems to be laden down with self-conscious pride that it's the proper way to speak, and often tied up with that Little Englander 'bladdy yanks don't understand irony/always need us to wade in there and bail them out/etc' worldview.

― Michael Philip Philip Philip Philip Annoyman v1.0 (Ferg), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:47 (twenty-one years ago)

http://little.britain.project76.tv/Autographs/Autographed-Little-Britain.jpg

― kate/papa november (papa november), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm still laughing at this:

As I understand it, Jaymc is a bon vivant and cosmopolitan man of the world.

I mean, it's true, but funny at the same time!

― adam.r.l. (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

-- kate/papa november

Kate, I just had an image of the voiceover of that annoying neckless chick from Sex in the City at her laptop with a glass of wine, hacking away at her column, when I read that. Which proves your point.

― thee music mole, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha! Funny thing is I've never seen more than 5 mins of SITC because I detest it!

― kate/papa november (papa november), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 20:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it's less about US cultural imperialism on the board and more about Calum in his ongoing quest to prove how much he isn't a misogynist/racist/whateverist, uses language that is often associated, not with British culture per se, but with a certain laddish or condescending attitude, such as his use of "squaddies," "Give her one" etc.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

xxxpost
Adam, I took the "bon vivant" part from your description of me!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh right! Yes I guess it is quite a me-ish phrase.

― adam.r.l. (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Funnily enough, Calum doesn't use a lot of Scotticisms, probably less than I do

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 21:08 (twenty-one years ago)

He's no Oor Wullie.

― Leon the Fatboy (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Now images of Viz are floating through my brain.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Umm, yeah, for the record, I think Calum’s internationalism issues have less to do with making British references and more to do with his whole historical anti-foreign-culture neuroses. He doesn’t “get” lots of bits of American culture (except slasher flicks, I guess), and yet has been pretty loud and vehement in these one-note almost Geirbot-type dismissals of them; at the same time he comes here to a significantly-American forum (just statistically, I’m talking) and tries to engage on odd cultural levels. I think he’s far from the most “foreign” Brit on here, so far as I can tell—I mean, there have been Carmody and Marcello discussions and so on that I find absolutely impenetrable—but it is funny to me when he tries to wind Americans up about stuff we’re not likely to even recognize. It might just be an issue of self-awareness, or—even simpler—awareness of others: I think a lot of other posters just have enough of a sense of who here is American that they wouldn’t bother addressing things at Americans that an American obviously wouldn’t follow. Calum tends not to have that switch. And I will always remember the Guns 'n' Roses thread where he was like Geir-type resistant to the million Americans assuring him that no matter how it came across to him, Axl Rose was not meant to be a "thug."

Also, in terms of international exchange, I’m always kinda touched on American-politics threads by the number of Brits who stop in and ask questions—as well as the number of Brits who don’t just stop in and say “hahaha you Americans are so fucked.” I dunno if that’s a Bush-era result of our politics seeming dangerous and worth keeping up with, or just a sign of the kind of thing Autumn started the thread about. But really, every Brit who ever posted “can I get some more background on this issue”—I salute you, and I feel bad for not posting enough to do the same on British-type threads and broaden my knowledge.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

So you're saying the English live on an island?!

This board always has been (and used to be more dominated by) heavily populated by American Anglo-philes - at least music-wise, and oftentimes much more than that.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 22:00 (twenty-one years ago)

It might just be an issue of self-awareness, or—even simpler—awareness of others: I think a lot of other posters just have enough of a sense of who here is American that they wouldn’t bother addressing things at Americans that an American obviously wouldn’t follow. Calum tends not to have that switch.

Yes, this is definitely part of what I meant.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I keep getting made fun of for pointing out that Britain is an island! It is, damn it! That genuinely has something to do with their having big popular indie-rock bands! I think! Less ground to cover! I’m not the first person to assert this!

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 22:03 (twenty-one years ago)

!!!

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I think perhaps the red herring in my original post (the one that prompted this thread) is the word "worldview" -- I was using it more to mean "way of dealing with the world" (in terms of one's psychological development and socialization) than any kind of political or philosophical perspective.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

perspective = attitude

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 22:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry jaymc, I see the point you were making now. But the surrounding point remains. :)

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

No big deal. I do agree with you on the surrounding point, for what it's worth!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 22:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, the surrounding point was perhaps more about Australians that Brits, though being fair you didnt bring us up. Nor did anyone overnight, interestingly.

Call me matyr, sometimes though I feel as if much of the board see things in a very US/UK divide and forget us poor old down-southers exist.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 23:33 (twenty-one years ago)

There be Dragons in yon Seas!

― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)

it's hard to see you guys way down there

― ()ops (()()ps), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 23:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"Its easy to forget Canada, tucked all the way down there!"

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 23:47 (twenty-one years ago)

WHY ARE WE DISCUSSING THINGS WITH AUSTRALIANS!!?!?!

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 23:52 (twenty-one years ago)

THEY CAN'T BE BARGAINED WITH!!

― ()ops (()()ps), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 23:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh I dunno, for the right price ....

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 23:57 (twenty-one years ago)

If it weren't for Crocodile Dundee, Outback Steakhouse or ILX, I'd have no idea that Australia existed.

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

This makes me realise that there aren't enough UK-centric threads. Bring back the bendy buses!

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

When I were first exploring the wilds of ILX, I was surprised and happy to discover it had an Aussie/N.Z. contingent. I read the mongrel/sheepfuxor threads sometimes, even though I have no idea what anyone's talking about -- it's just all so cheerful. Makes me want to visit.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 00:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Huzzah! All welcome! We'll take yers down the pub.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 00:50 (twenty-one years ago)

It's cheerful because we are drunk and stupid.

― thee music mole, Wednesday, 16 February 2005 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaha yes, it is so. Also, the sun has cooked our branes.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I really thought that jocko had a no. 1 album or something in Australia! :[[[

― ¬_¬ (PUNXSUTAWNEY PENIS), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 01:41 (twenty-one years ago)

JACKO DAMMIT HIS NAME IS JACKO.

And he did have a "hit" "single" here years back called "I'm an Individual" which was a pile of elephants leavings.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Call me matyr, sometimes though I feel as if much of the board see things in a very US/UK divide and forget us poor old down-southers exist.

And the other 210 countries. :)

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 02:34 (twenty-one years ago)

http://img36.exs.cx/img36/8189/3b-santa_jeremy.jpg

BRIDGING THE GAP BETWEEN NATIONS

― Kingfish MuffMiner 2049er (Kingfish), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 02:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Bumpatron

― gramps, Thursday, 17 February 2005 04:14 (twenty-one years ago)

No one in the US knows anything about US geography, so someone has to make up the slack.

― mike h. (mike h.), Thursday, 17 February 2005 05:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaha Jeremy I love that pic of ya.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 17 February 2005 05:27 (twenty-one years ago)

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