stupid vegan tricks

seriously, i HAVE known vegetarians who eat only junk food. they DO check the label, to be sure that there's no animal products. i call 'em, "junkfood-tarians."

I was vegan for a year and half. I never ate vegetables because I was never forced to as a child, and thus never developed a taste for the yucky rabbit food most of you earth people enjoy so heartily. I barely survived (I was a 'no sugar' vegan, too) - Frookies and refried beans and Boca burgers on Pita bread. That was IT. My doctor told me I was on the fast track to anemia or something, so now I eat cow I am not proud. Wife is a vegetarian though, but drinks milk and wears leather boots. What a hypocrite!

Since the lady bought the the Bullet juicer thing, I've eaten some vegetables, and I occasionally juice carrots with my orange juice, but that's IT. I mean, when i go to Wendy's, I get burgers without lettuce and tomato. God help me, I just don't like vegetables. Of any kind. Potatos are tubers, so they don't count.

Does he eat leather and wool?

Man, if there's a handbook for "standard vegan practice" nobody sent me one. I have a wool sweater and a pair of leather shoes, but I hardly ever eat them, so I still claim vegan status. (This is threatened somewhat because I do sometimes cheat with one Snickers bar a week and occasional cookies, but whatever.)

i did not know that!

or was that your point?

i think that it's implicit that so-called vegans who eat nothing but junk food aren't exactly the sharpest knives in the cabinet! :-)

The reason I say this is because there is no actual difference in one's health between eating 1 oz. of meat every three months and eating no meat at all. Once you have understood this, there is no good reason to approach the question of meat in one's diet in the spirit of absolutism. "Lapsing" from time to time becomes the rational thing to do.

However, there are a great many vegans and vegetarians for whom health is a neglible issue. They might use it as a front when arguing the reasons for their choice of diet, but it is a sham. For the truly committed vegan/vegetrian - the one who will persevere through a lifetime of self-discipline - the question comes down to revulsion, either physical or mental.

The rare people who get physically ill eating meat are simply following what their body tells them it can assimilate. That might be a health issue for them, but it is because of an abnormal condition - an allergy or a peculiar physical disability, like the lactose-intolerant. It isn't the unhealthiness of meat, per se that is the issue, but the peculiarity of their digestion that is the issue there. Such people say, "I can't eat meat. It makes me ill. You go right ahead." They recognize their own condition.

The people whose revulsion from meat is purely mental are, um, interesting. For them it is a matter of purity vs. pollution. It is a religious question and not subject to rationality. They reach this position based on ethics, or morality, or religion. Their reasons may be cloaked in hygienic terms, but they are speaking of belief, not facts.

I find the whole question fascinating. The range of behavior around diet is almost as varied and wierd as that in regard to sex. My advice for Eisbar? Stop being irritated at these personal idiosyncracies or hypocisies that do not actually affect you - and study them instead. People are strange. Learn to dissect them and you'll start to understand your own wierdness, too. This is a good first step toward mental health.

and aimless -- i'm NOT irritated or anything like that. i DO find it kinda amusing, nothing more. live and let live, and all that.

Well, if the junk food in question contains no animal by-products or dairy/animal exploitation/whatever by-products, then it's still vegetarian or vegan, respectively, right? The eaters in question didn't violate their dietary limits in that specific regard.

*shrug* I don't see the amusement or hypocrisy, necessarily, unless they've stated things like "I will never give my money to a corporation that exploits animals"... if they did, then they're self righteous hypocrites. And in that case, again, *shrug*

The reason I say this is because there is no actual difference in one's health between eating 1 oz. of meat every three months and eating no meat at all. Once you have understood this, there is no good reason to approach the question of meat in one's diet in the spirit of absolutism. "Lapsing" from time to time becomes the rational thing to do.

Holy crap, good point. As far as I can see, a lot of people become vegetarian/vegan during their highly idealistic late teens/early twenties, and even when the accompanying personal reasons/philosophical beliefs have sloughed off, vegetarianism/veganism hangs around. (How many vegetarians do we all know who, by age 25, have developed hilariously contradictory occupations/political viewpoints/intake habits.)

A lot of vegetarians/vegans are afraid that they'll throw up/shit themselves immediately if they eat meat. It's just not true. Despite the fact that I still find the smell of meat a little gross, occasionally venturing beyond contradictory, guilt-based asceticism has been far healthier for me (after four years of not eating meat) than any supposed health benefits.

Er, no! To most vegetarians I know (including myself) it's not a question of "purity vs. pollution", but a rational ethical choice. Numerous studies have shown that the meat/dairy/egg/etc industry makes animals live in such conditions that it causes them constant suffering. Vegetarians think that making animals suffer is wrong. (Okay, that could be considered a question of belief, but I think it's a belief that most people share. Or would you beat up your dog?) Therefore, they don't want to support the industry that causes that suffering. Simple as that.

My friend Joe claims to be vegan but wears considerable amounts of leather & wool.

Even more annoying than fascist vegetarians are the people who, once they've heard you're a vegan/vegetarian, constantly try to find some crack, some ethical lapse in the way that you live. I've been a vegetarian/vegan for more than eight years, and yes, I occasionally eat junk food (not fast food though), and yes, I've worn more than one pair of leather shoes. We are only humans - we do what we can, but you can't expect us to be perfect in every way. Nobody is.

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The thing that really gets me is vegans who give blow jobs! wtf!! SEMEN IS AN ANIMAL PRODUCT!!!!!!!

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you haven't heard about tuomas's wang, have you kate?

He's pretty indifferent.

Stated as if all vegans/vegetarians treat meat-eating as a personal chemical dependency ("If I can just push my cart past the deli department... don't look at those tantalizing coldcuts..."), rather than a zero-option resort ("There is no other food on the planet but this meat/If I do not eat it I will die").

How many of you know what takes place in your average factory farm? From the welfare of the animals and the employees right down to the lack of hygiene or concern displayed for the product that is about to reach your shops and be stuffed down your throat?

I have nothing against anyone eating meat. I would like to see a world where all animal produce is the result of farm reared cows and pigs, humanely slaughtered and living a natural life until then. I still wouldn't eat them because the idea of eating a mammal, any mammal, just seems a bit too close to home to really stomach. Pigs are more intelligent than dogs and I wouldn't eat my sister's pet lab so...

But my point is that whenever there's an anti-war demonstration or a peace demonstration or whatever it seems to be a lot of vegans and veggies out there. Perhaps they have obtained a level of compassion that just isn't evident on this thread?

To be fair, I'd still put the use of primates in science labs as the top priority, followed by abolishing all vivisection... and the people talking sense in that debate are - perhaps not surprisingly - those whose first concern is the value of life without torture.

Just a thought.

I now eat meat but very rarely, I mostly eat like a vegetarian.

No one has ever been more on the mikkifikki money than this, not even Sacajawea. Tuomas, we share more than just a birthday and the desire to shave many females; we are TRUE BLOOD BROTHERS.*

*Except substitute some kind of vegan blood-like product instead.
**Oh and I've never actually shaved a female...or have I?

This is not a problem with eating meat, but a problem with how domestic animals are raised. There is no necessity for animals to be raised in conditions that make them suffer, or to be butchered in ways that cause undue pain or fear.

Because the solution you have chosen (not eating meat) does not address the cause of the problem (cruel practises) it is highly unlikely to affect the problem, except in a peripheral way.

It would seem to me to be a far better solution to identify non-industrial, local sources of meat from animals that are treated well. This would encourage the spread of such practises by rewarding the farmers who use them.

I would never dream of disputing that what you eat is an individual choice. I am glad you are comfortable with it. I am trying to address the thought process behind it. When such a decision is presented as the result of rationality, as a response to a particular problem, then it seems fair to evaluate it in those terms.

An argument you might find persuasive is not necessarily a well-constructed argument. If, when presented with a counter-argument, your response is that you don't have to change your mind because you don't want to, then the only possible response is to shrug.

For me, this isn't about forcing anything on you or other vegetarians, but rather about examining the reasons, beliefs and desires that motivate a choice until they are clearly and correctly defined. Fuzzy thinking may be common, but it is seldom as useful as clear thinking. One's choice may remain the same, but it is better understood, which is all to the good.

BTW, your position seems more like saying one could change worldwide child abuse by abstaining from sex.

He said that he might touch the plates and a small amount of animal product would then be absorbed through his skin.

Hmmmmmmmmmm

They didn't eat animals, obv, and they wouldn't eat plants either, cos they were living things, and they survived by "sucking pebbles for nutrients".

:-)

But I do agree with you that there needs to be more organic and small farming, whether it's meat or vegetables or whatever that's being raised. There, we agree.

I am also sorry that some vegans are stupid about absorbing cheese through their skin, and that some eat junk food and therefore are huge hypocrites, and that I ever got involved in this thread, and that I have not been to Artamos, which sounds lovely, even though "meatz" is my new least-favorite word ever.

My actual position is that one's thinking gets clearer when it is challenged from the outside, so that one is forced to clarify it. If you had the time and inclination to type out your whole personal philosophy so it made sense to me, it would very likely help you to understand it more clearly yourself - which is what I was trying to express in my clumsy way. (The same would apply to me, too.)

In the meantime, you seem to have refined your position on the effectiveness of eating meat raised by small non-industrial farmers as a way of improving the problem of cruel treatment of animals. A short time ago you stated it would change nothing.

Ars longa. Vita brevis.

Oh, and I suppose this girl doesn't count either just because she's a tuber!

ihttp://www.u-blog.net/katagena/img/bong5ans.jpg

It does come to the point where, as a veggie, you tend to feel this issue rather than think it. Generally that's not due to a lack of cognitive capability and more down to the fact that we don't spend every day analysing our dietary choices any more than you meat eaters do (possibly a little more because we're challenged on it so often - it seems that, although the stereotype of preaching vegetarians is so often used to undermine the practice, the incidence of preaching meat-eaters is equally high).

It comes to the point where you get rather tired of defending your choices and, presented with ANOTHER person who is determined to point out how hypocritical you are for wearing leather shoes, your response is just to say that you don't eat meat because you don't want to, rather than give them an exhaustive list of all the factors behind your decision.

That, and the fact that once you DO start trying to explain the reasons you eat as you do, the "you're preaching at me" argument comes back out again, and nobody gets anything but a clenched colon.

lol
http://www.quarrygirl.com/2011/04/13/rant-veg-news-is-putting-the-meat-into-vegan-issues/

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41-BWOvsKoL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

http://www.eonline.com/news/664151/beyonce-facing-major-backlash-over-vegan-diet-announcement-see-what-the-beyhive-s-saying

christ, people are assholes.

i was actually thinking of reviving this thread earlier today - i'm trying to go vegan (never thought i'd see the day) but i'm still in the phase where no matter how much i eat, no matter how much protein/fat/carbohydrate i consume, no matter how much healthy/junk food i partake in, no matter how much tofu + beans + nuts + soy milk i cram into my body, my stomach & body continue to protest and i feel. so. hungry.

Try upping the amount of low GI carbohydrate sources maybe? Wholegrain bread, wholewheat pasta, that sort of thing. Almond butter on toast is a pretty good snack

crut you gotta get up on the complete protein picture! rice + legume + veg all in the same bowl - khichari, the greatest meal in the world - that'll fill you right up! and is also amazingly delicious

what do you mean your stomach and body protest? i know what you mean abt feeling hungry though. i've done it for days at a time with other vegans and don't give it a second thought, or get particularly hungry; but on my own it seems WAY more challenging (esp since i love cheese so much and it's such a tasty way to get your ADEK's). one thing maybe to keep in mind, physiologically speaking, protein provides more feeling of satiety (feeling of fullness b/w meals) but fats provide more satiation (feeling of fullness during a meal). and solid food(fiber, whole grains, like NickB mentioned) is better than non-solid for satiety. i find irish oats to keep me well satisfied through a morning, but i hardly ever make the effort to put 'em on.
according to nutrition instructor i had recently you don't in fact need to consume grains and legumes simultaneoulsy like they once thought. just needs to be within a couple/few hours.

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Protein pairing is def based on weak science but I do it anyway because the resulting meals are delicious & fulfilling!

I think my guts are sensitive to dietary changes bc of my Crohn's disease - it's hard because beans are just the greatest food ever now but I can't just eat beans all the time. I have a lot of unpleasant history with stomach cramps & feeling weak and I get a little freaked out when I start experiencing those things while trying to cut out meat and other animal-sourced foods, especially when I'm trying to juggle all my other responsibilities. This is all very new to me, like I've never been a careful consumer and I'm not used to shopping or cooking this way and I'm still trying to find a good balance that works for me. Not to perpetuate an unfair stereotype here but I feel ashamed talking to dedicated vegans about it because they are usually pretty set in their ethics & they're mystified by anyone who maybe isn't on the same page as them.

(good to see you here ms crawford)

I'm not sure why but miso broth makes me satiated pretty quickly

Oh yeah I also hate mushrooms

My parents are vegans. They eat a lot of whole grains, bean sprouts, olive oil, vegetables, nuts, almond milk, coconut milk, bread, juice - stuff like that. I tend to have the same feeling of not being quite completely full after a vegan meal. Chocolate helps.

miso was a lifesaver when i was so sick everything else made me throw up. i can eat it for breakfast lunch and dinner and not get tired of it.

protein provides more feeling of satiety (feeling of fullness b/w meals) but fats provide more satiation (feeling of fullness during a meal).

i never knew abt this distinction and i'm having a real scales-dropping-from-eyes moment here

i miss being vegan

I could never be a vegan, life without eggs and cheese is not the life for me.

being a ~lapsed vegan~ really changed my eating tendencies, i find myself enjoying eggs and cheese a lot more, also honey, also i think more about nutrition, also i am way closer to being an eat-every-part-of-the-animal person in a desperate attempt to make up some of the moral lost ground

Other thing to do I guess is up yr portion sizes a little bit and follow main meals with a huge pile of salad leaves w/ a bit of dressing

crut, have you tried protein smoothies? they make a good snack if you're not getting enough food with your other meals, and jordan says they're really filling. half an ripe/overripe frozen banana, one cup almond milk, 2 tbsp hemp powder, and then any extras like frozen mango or pineapple, maybe some spinach (add more milk to thin if necessary). ground flax seed is good too (beware it will turn your smoothie to jello if you don't drink it immediately). i buy hemp powder for pretty cheap on amazon.

don't forget to take a good vit b supplement as well.

being a ~lapsed vegan~ really changed my eating tendencies, i find myself enjoying eggs and cheese a lot more

― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Tuesday, June 9, 2015 12:49 AM (14 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. i was vegan for 10 years and did okay with it but towards the end i did eventually really miss eggs, cheese, and dairy. i gradually introduced them and i've now been vegetarian for the past couple years. i love it. i don't have a huge desire to eat meat, sometimes, but mostly i am very satisfied w/ being vegetarian. i have eggs every morning now, love all kinds of cheese.

http://vegnews.com/articles/page.do?pageId=6734&catId=1

Sandwiches made at the world's largest convenience store will now only use Just Mayo.

Choosing plant-based options is becoming faster and more convenient now that sandwiches with egg-free mayonnaise are available at 7-Eleven stores. According to Hampton Creek CEO and Founder Josh Tetrick on Twitter, “All of @7-Eleven switched to using Just Mayo” in their sandwiches. “It’s the only mayo that they will have, and one that is infinitely better for the planet,” Tetrick said in a later interview with Ecorazzi. With approximately 8,000 stores in the US alone, 7-Eleven is the largest convenience store in the world, so the effects of this small change will be amplified many times over. Hampton Creek estimates the company’s switch from traditional mayonnaise to Just Mayo will save 81 million gallons of water as well as 1.5 billion milligrams of sodium from human ingestion annually. The vegan food company—which also makes the Just Cookies cookie dough—is finding success with many other mainstream brands as well. Betty Crocker Angel Food Cake Mix began incorporating their Just Mix powdered egg-replacement in its recipe earlier this year, and Walmart Mexico will soon carry Hampton Creek's line of products.

something something cramming veganism down our throats

The funny thing is, mayo is one of those things that end up being "accidentally vegan" mainly due to cheapass industrial manufacturing. Its way cheaper to make may from gelatinous industrial thickener goo, than from eggs.

"gelatinous industrial thickener goo" is just pea protein and corn starch. I prefer Vegenaise®, which uses tofu.

Three of you commented above about protein pairing. High lysine content to activate hypothalamic AMPK and suppress appetite is fairly well-established science.

I suspect the trick to healthy vegan dieting is to maximize the ratio of lysine to methionine (which is universally health negative in excess) in proteins. Top lysine/methionine ratios are found in whole corn & buckwheat products (among grains); lentils, fava & adzuki (among legumes), almonds & pistachos (among nuts), onions, peas, & cabbage (among vegetables). In general, whole plants have a favorable lysine/methionine ratio, which is one reason vegans are the only dietary group with "normal" body weights, and probably live longer.

You may know me as Darryl at other vegan & longevity forums.

You know those cake in a mug things? I made the best one last weekend with almond meal, mashed banana, baking powder, cinnamon, a tiny bit of stevia, and coconut oil. It tasted like banana bread and the coconut oil provided enough fat so that it was very filling.

I am not vegan (lacto ovo here for 20 years now! :) ) but I'm going through a lot of stomach issues right now and trying different things to see what I tolerate.

I just had an online conversation about stomach issues. In my case, green tea caused nausea, but the linalool (lavender fragrance) in jasmine tea prevented it.

grateful for the protein-pairing knowledge drop sanpaku. without understanding any of the science i always found the elevation involved so satisfying to think about.

Apologies for the drunken posting above: High lysine/protein foods activate <i>mTORC1</i>, not AMPK, in the hypothalamus and elsewhere. This has positive effects on satiety and anabolic function, and negative ones on longevity (mTOR inhibitors like rapamycin extend lifespan).

no apologies, more linalool posts PLEASE

Its herbal ketamine.

Sanpaku what's yr fav junk food

just kick back + watch nexflix w a big bowl of methionine

@crut: I'm addicted to chopping up half an onion, nuking it, adding 1 chopped small can of chipotle peppers in adobo sauce, and 1 can of black refried beans, heating together and serving in toasted corn tortillas. Too much salt, and the the fattier brands of beans are usually the more tasty. Mea culpa.

my favorite junk food is 10 packs of those gummy fruit snacks from costco. they have fruit in them therefore they are healthy tho. wait i dont think there's any fruit in them, but they are shaped like fruits.

and it has to be 10 or else its not truly harmful to my health, doctor said so (no they didnt)

I found some toasted coconut vegan marshmallows a few weeks ago that were ridiculously good, and I don't even like marshmallow.

adding 1 chopped small can of chipotle peppers in adobo sauce

The whole can? Yikes! Usually one pepper is enough for me.

I've a high capsaicin tolerance/preference: I can chug Huy Fong Sriracha or Tabasco (2.2-2.5k Scoville) with no ill effect, and snack on green jalapeno's during prep. Chipotle's are around 5k scoville, the adobo sauce only a fraction of that, and I lean to Caribean habanero+carrot+lime sauces (20+k, Marie Sharpe' or Melinda's) when I want heat. Mind, I would reserve the peppers and just use the adobo sauce if preparing Tex-Mex for anyone else.

http://qz.com/576679/the-fda-decides-that-vegan-just-mayo-is-actually-mayo-after-all/

The Silicon Valley food startup received a warning letter from the FDA in August, in which the agency said “Just Mayo” was misleading consumers.

The new label clearly states that Just Mayo does not contain eggs. And CEO Josh Tetrick tells Quartz it will emphasize the word “just”—not as in “only” but as in “guided by reason, justice, and fairness.”

“That’s going to be a part of our label going forward,” says Tetrick.

always trickery and deceit with you people

how is that just, i ask you

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/v/t1.0-9/12294818_913353842080139_5285671917928641033_n.jpg?oh=d156f7512b712d6f814334e72fa1be31&oe=56DCDD6D

im vegan btw but i actually think vegan mayo, unlike a number of other substitute foods, is really good.

the Plamil ones are pretty good, the chili one especially

I had toast with kimchi and veganaise this morning for breakfast now that I think about it.

https://www.facebook.com/latablesuisse/?target_post=1676594379280731

A hoax?

http://metro.co.uk/2016/02/11/people-are-outraged-at-this-cat-and-dog-meat-restaurant-but-is-it-all-it-seems-5675767/

of course it is; there are tons of giveaways.

it's very effective propaganda.

I'm not sure what exactly it's propaganda for. Is it supposed to be making meat-eaters think twice because cows and chickens are just like cats and dogs? Or is it to show how animal rights activists overreact to provocations?

the easiest explanation is that it serves to underline the hypocrisy of meat-eating "animal lovers", particularly those of the "foodie" stripe. it mocks "fleischgeist" since the same folks who make themselves feel good about eating pigs and cows (via the civilizing patina of "conscious carnivorism" or whatever) can't abide the same treatment of cats and dogs.

i don't know that you need to recognize it as a hoax for it to be fairly effective btw

wait, that was backwards. i don't think it needs to /function/ effectively as a hoax for it to be fairly effective in sending up the hypocrisy of the fleischgeist