Why do white people have a problem with fat girls?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

They are in the moniroty.

― Qwest22, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Classism. Fat is associated with poverty in Western culture because poor people can only afford junk food and McDonald's, and do the kind of jobs that leave people too drained to exercise and cook properly. Too much of an association with 'trailer trash' for some people.

― dave q, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Well I'm white, Qwest22, and find large girls attractive.

― stevo, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i think you'll find quite a few crackas on these boards have a thing for the ample woman.

― jess, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Not necessarily true. I am white and a person's size is NOT an issue to me. I am a personality person. If a person is a good soul does it really matter the size? Not to me.As Far a size, I don't eat at McDonald's and I am far from poor. I hope I have a good personality though.

― Gale Deslongchamps, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

LETS DO THE FAT DEBATE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Ronan, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

sorry folks.......qwest22 is not a valid user on this website... www.adaptor.tv i think someone is having a laugh with you. pls do not send email to qwest22@adaptor.tv i will block any mails to this address from the server. cheers stuart

― stuart, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I disagree with fat == poor thinking, or the notion thereof. Personally I consider any form of lardity (mine own included) to be indicative of the over-fed easy-pickings sedentary lifestyle that exists throughout the western world.

When was the last time you saw a fat mujihadin, eh?

This thinking seems to be the only kind that can actually motivate me to get off my fat arse and get some exercise, though I am aware it is somewhat extremist. My views have been polarising of late - I think I need a woman.

― ogden, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

People seem to think that fat people have no discipline/character because they can't say no to the enormous amounts of foods available to them. Boool-sheee-it of course. It has taken me about three years to cut the chord between food-emotions. Yay!

― helen fordsdale, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I have no problem at all. :-)

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Really the point is that alot of people aren't physically attracted to alot of "fat girls". I've never been physically attracted to a fat girl, but I'm not ruling out the possibility, it just hasn't happened. I can't definitively say what I am attracted to, so I'm not going to fence myself in by saying "i'm not attracted to x y x type of girl" because unless you're a complete dick you judge people as they come. It is for these reasons that I'm not too keen on saying "I AM attracted to x y z type of girl", although obviously this comes across as less preconcieved.

But anyone can sit here (me included) and say "I've no problem with fat girls", it doesn't say much, its just confirming you don't have prejudices regarding the IDEA of "fat girls". In practice things are different, often physical attraction is all we have to go on, and I'd have doubts about people saying they are more physically attracted or perhaps even equally physically attracted to "fat girls". Perhaps I'm overly cynical. Physical attraction is by its nature pretty shallow, unlike er....proper attraction which is often inexplicable.

I might have mocked earlier but I was always going to be tempted into posting onto this thread.

― Ronan, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not ruling out the possibility

Damn well better not, or I'll dump you in the Liffey. I'm looking out for your best interests, see. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I can't believe that it's as "rational" an attitude as dave q describes, on either side.

― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Find me a culture in modern society that doesn't have a problem with fat women. I think most are pretty hateful towards them, in one degree or another.

It seems to be willfully ignorant or disengenous to claim that it's only white people.

― Nic, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I like big butts and I cannot lie.

― bnw, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But there are so many hiphop songs with big big love for the big big women, Nitsuh! Is there a white analogue? And Dominican men - well, Dominican men who prefer skinny girls are about as common as sexy images of large women in mainstream white media...

― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

nicole is nitsuh in body swapping sex change shocker!

― jess, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

dave q's got a point though - cos when fatness was a sign of wealth, fat women were the ideal female form (think of Rubens etc, although he certainly wasn't the only one painting large women).

oh, and to use Ronan's phrase, I've never been physically attracted to a thin girl, but I'm not ruling out the possibility, it just hasn't happened...

― michael, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

why do white people have a problem with white people?

― ethan, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Gah I just don't think Ludacris is all "look at that big ol ass! what a sign of wealth!"

― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

he's not. it just is probably one of the reasons for the attitude of society as a whole. same way as suntans used to be a sign of manual farm labour (pale white skin being a sign of wealth, hence the term 'blue blooded' for the nobility), then became a sign of wealth (being able to afford foreign holidays). now less of a sign of wealth since the cost of air travel reduced.

― michael, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But there are so many hiphop songs with big big love for the big big women

No, I would say it's more of an appreciation of big butts or breasts - - genuinely big all over women are not accepted. Take a look at hiphop videos, what kind of women are being objectified there?

― Nic, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

All I mean is that there's no white Angie Stone or Missy Elliot; there's no white groups with verses that go "if you fat chick getting your fuck on tonight then go ooh ooh ooh!" Where's the love??

― Tracer Hand, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

in terms of lyrical content, hiphop is always going to have greater breadth than 'white groups' on any topic.

― ethan, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I give you Queen's "Fat Bottomed Girls." If you want it.

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

but freddie mercury was gay, perhaps we should then ask why do white people not like girls in general? it's as valid a question as the original one i.e. not at all.

― ethan, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd love to have a "No Fat Chicks" tee-shirt - not because I have a problem with fat chicks/blokes but because I think that there is something so supremely offensive about such a tee-shirt that there is peculiar kind of beauty about it. "No Skinny Chicks" tee-shirts are lame though.

― toraneko, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I agree with Ms. Nicole. Neither side is praising fat girls. I mean to hear how people talk about J-Lo as being this new model of sex appeal that regular girls can identify with is laughable and sad.

Fat guys on the other hand, thanks to the Notorious and Tony Soprano, are sexy as hell! Or something...

― bnw, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd have doubts about people saying they are more physically attracted or perhaps even equally physically attracted to "fat girls".

Physical attraction and other attraction are different, sure, but, um...why would you doubt this? All other things being equal, I am more physically attracted to "fat girls" (up to a point). This isn't me being PC, as in practise it means I objectify, ogle, and generally get all Shaggy-esque about them. Even on "average" girls, I tend to look for traces of chunkiness. I'm sure there are all sorts of socially conditioned reasons why I do this but the reaction is there, ingrained, and pretty much unshakeable by now.

What a way to start the week's posting.

― Tom, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Fair enough.

"This isn't me being PC"

Now theres an avenue we DONT want to go down.

― Ronan, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I am a little chubby myself and I love me as I am. When I was young I was very thin and was sick a lot of the time, as well as taken advantage of. When I got married I was 98 lbs, and was a mouse. To me now, I'm not the same person as I left behind, and I don't accept abuse in any way shape or form anymore. A lot of the people out there who are very thin are depressed or are starving themselves just to fit in.( To what?) I can honestly tell you from experience that when I was young, and Didn't like it a bit, Tall slim girls found it extremely hard to find dates. It seems like they weren't often asked , and I don't know why. It's just the way things were at the time and it wasn't fair anymeore than the heft of people.

― Gale Deslongchamps, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I just don't think I'm ready for that jelly.

― Ronan, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I love the curvy woman, but occasionally I find attractive the ultra- conventional flat-stomached thing. I do think, though, that's it's more a kind of envy/coveting what is considered conventionally the most attarctive, rather than actually preferring it as an ideal.

However, I find rolls of fat by and largely unappealing. So shoot me.

― Mark C, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The problem isn't when they're fat, it's when they're fat and they dress like slobs too, and don't style their hair as assiduously as they should.

― dave q, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

dave you're not being convincingly sarcastic anymore.

― ethan, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Tall thin girls find it hard to get dates? This is quite possibly true, as I know a very tall (well over 6') lass who's gorgeous but has a major complex about her height.

Why would blokes not be inclined to ask a tall lass out then? Maybe it comes down to punching your own weight - it's extremely unlikely I'd ask a drop-dead gorgeous lass out on the simple grounds that I'd perceive her as being well out of my league...?

― ogden, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I saw the TLC video for 'Unbeautiful' a few days ago, and it made me cry. The video is about a girl whose boyfriend teases her about getting breast implants, so she almost goes through with it but then reconsiders. For the first time I felt like I saw the position of women as a boy might see it. Women are made to care so much about their appearance that they are ridiculous, degraded and frivolous; to participate in this climate of what amounts to ridicule seems extraordinarily cruel to me. I can't understand the boys' position. It makes me think of the old lines, 'Aren't women flesh and blood too? Don't they bleed, and suffer, as you do?' What I mean is, why aren't boys thinking these things to themselves? Dave Q, frankly I find your comments abhorrent. I don't care whether they are sarcastic or supposed to arouse controversy; to pile more layers into an already existing body of ridicule is completely unnecessary. And as for the boys who tell us that they 'like fat women' - or tall women, or whatever - it's bad enough that women's position is already ridiculous; to make the mirage of attractiveness waver - to add your own little vision to it - is just making it worse; it almost seems like playing cat and mouse.

Frankly, I think some boys will be glad to read this kind of thing, because they must think similar thoughts themselves. What is it that makes many boys able to treat women this way, when I'm sure many of the same people wouldn't be racist to anything like the corresponding degree? It isn't like talking about boys' attractiveness, because I'm sure that plastic surgery statistics, media images and personal experience will leave most people with little doubt that the trope of beauty is used against women in a way that it isn't against men.

― maryann, Monday, 10 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

FYI I don't know too many thin girls who are starving and depressed, certainly not more that are depressed than heavy girls are. I don't think there's any race that is more or less accepting of "fat girls", if it's worth anything. I find that a ridiculous notion, I know plenty of white guys who are into heavier girls and plenty of black/Hispanic guys who only like very thin girls.

― Ally, Tuesday, 11 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Apparently Maryann isn't aware that many men are very insecure about their physical appearance, about being too short, too skinny, too fat, not muscular enough, having wimpy calves, small dicks, freckles, wrinkles, pimples, unruly hair, curly hair, limp hair, body hair, hairy backs, unattractive mouths, small eyes, close together eyes, wide apart eyes, big noses, wrinkly foreheads, sticky-out ears, small ears, hairy necks, prominant veins, bad complexions, no pecs, wussy forearms, rounded shoulders, sway backs, saggy scrotums, high voices, overly deep voices, bad teeth, no butt, shaving rash, no cheek- bones.

She also doesn't seem to be aware that many women judge men on how they look, how tall they are (how short they are), how big their dick is, how good their muscle development is, how hairy their back is and how fat they are.

How niave.

― toraneko, Tuesday, 11 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I agree with what you wrote, Toraneko, because as far as I understand it, shared experience of suffering is the basis for most compassion; that's exactly why I was confused. Although I didn't explain at length, that's what I meant about both being flesh. I wasn't being naive in overlooking that but rather perhaps gave it too much weight.

― maryann, Wednesday, 12 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

what it really comes down to is that an awful lot of men can't empathise with us, maryann, because sexual difference has been emphasized in our culture to such an extent that many males don't even see us as being human.

― di, Wednesday, 12 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Maryann - why are you assuming that men are judging a woman's worth solely on the basis of physical attraction? Many men would consider attraction (on whatever basis) a necessary condition for a sexual relationship - this seems to me entirely fair. Many of those same men would also not factor attraction or its lack at all into their other relationships - working, social, friendship, political, etc. - with women.

Your comments seem to imply that attraction itself equals oppression, or at least that any generalised expression of attraction is oppressive.

― Tom, Wednesday, 12 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

>>Maryann - why are you assuming that men are judging a woman's worth solely on the basis of physical attraction?<<

i'm not maryann but: because a lot of men do. there are an awful lot of men that i've met who work from the principal of "if i don't wannna fuck her i don't wanna know her". and guess what? these guys tend to only want to fuck girls who are conventionally attractive. i know it may be different here on ILE, i'd like to think that some of the men here are a bit more openminded than that, but that doesn't detract from the fact that there are a shitload of dumb people in the world who do not even think to question themselves and societal conventions. there is a normalisation of male desire that goes on, some people manage to slip throught the cracks (bless their souls) but a lot don't.

i don't think maryann was saying that attraction is inherently oppressive. just the judgements men make on women's bodies seems cruel, especially in a context where certain types of female bodies are valorised and others deemed worthless and ugly, contributing to the whole lookist thing. and some men do make these judgments, and they make them as if the whole of womanhood should immediately morph into what they want.

― di, Thursday, 13 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(This is really badly worded, I'm knackered. Sorry.)

I'm not Maryann either, for which she should be thankful, and I know I'm biased but I don't know, Tom, I must say that I am annoyed by the way people - primarily but not only men, and including people I think of as intelligent and reasonable - often criticise the appearance of women on television (including when they first appear before they've said or done anything and when it just isn't relevant to why they're on tv) in a way that I think would seem completely irrelevant and bizarre if they did it of a man. And when an unattractive woman manages to be successful, which I have a suspicion may well be harder than for a similarly unattractive man, she'll normally get a very tough time from the media whether or not her looks impact on her job choice, which they very rarely would except for this respect issue.

By way of (possibly bad) example, of course I don't agree with her politics at all, but I'd find it very hard to believe that the reason Ann Widdecombe is the most hated and ridiculed MP around is solely based on her politics as opposed to her appearance. Yes, I too find I disagree with most of her speeches, but aren't there plenty of male MPs with beliefs at least as strange and questionable? Why single her out? Why is most of the criticism I hear of her closer to "ha ha, what a mingbeast, wouldn't want to fuck her!" than a political analysis, which I just don't think applies anything like as much to criticism of male politicians?

And I don't think it's just people in the public eye, either. Maybe not so much completely unprovoked, but if someone male did something to annoy someone else I think the odds of that someone else just saying "bastard" as opposed to "jeez, fat old minger, eh?" are considerably higher than them saying "bitch" and not "fat old trout" if the first person was female. (See, I couldn't even think of a male equivalent to "trout"...) Maybe it's only a matter of grabbing for the first convenient insult when you actually have a problem with everything about them, but why do the first insults that come to mind seem to be more likely to be appearance-based when the target is a woman than otherwise?

OK, this is really inarticulate and I went on for far too long, I'm sorry, I don't make much sense at the best of times and I need sleep. I expect when I awake I'll have offended everyone and everyone will have ripped huge great holes in my argument, but go for it (erm, gently), I'd *like* to be proven wrong.

― Rebecca, Thursday, 13 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The media's treatment of Katherine Harris is good U.S. example of what Rebecca is saying. Same with Janet Reno.

― bnw, Thursday, 13 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Just cos guys act like they are only judging women based on physical attraction doesn't mean they actually are. Alot of it is just er....machoism, for want of a better word. I guess that's not much better but still, I'd imagine it's just as likely that these guys end up really liking or loving someone who is not "conventionally attractive" some day, noone chooses who they're attracted to to be honest.

― Ronan, Thursday, 13 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The problem with the argument that men are 'nice guys under the macho bluster', and that they'll probably settle down with some lovely-if- perhaps-not-conventionally-attractive-woman one day (qua *argument*) is that it implies women are only unhappy with the conventions and the men insofar as it is likely to impinge on their *personal quest for a partner*. THAT's NOT IT, d'you see? Sorry Ronan, this makes me soo snippy.

Tom's points are more useful in pointing up the range of cross- cutting relationships in different spheres between genders. Nor would I say that attraction is somehow intrinsically oppressive. But like every time the problem of objectification comes up on ILE, no- one seems to be able to make a distinction between the gaze of an individual man, and the multiplied, desomatised 'gaze', mediated and fractured, of men represented through cultural structures. Whether individual men choose to dissociate themselves from this or not (and like Di, I see that loads of men here think about this stuff and find ways of dealing with it; also who are very articulate about the double-edged nature of the problems of 'gender' which I might'n't have bothered to think so much about if they weren't so persuasive) they are nonetheless positioned largely in relation to a culture of (active) *looking*, whilst women are still, I would argue, stuck with being largely (passively) *looked at*. Feminism has never argued that no woman wants to be looked at ever, desired ever: just that most women most of the time don't want to be simply objects through which men define their sexuality.

ARen't I in a pissy mood this morning? Maybe I should go revive the Shaggy thread so that I can be pissy even more.

PS: REbecca, spot on about Widdecombe. I've made this point so often that people think I LUV her.

― Ellie, Thursday, 13 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But I wasnt saying it like "oh dont worry they'll change and you'll all have lovely men". I was just saying, they're not actually like that. Most of them, I would imagine. i was saying they would settle down and fall in love with someone based on whatever inexplicable attraction they had, because they *aren't* the monsters they may seem to be, and it's all a bullshit act. I guess that might not be much better, but the problem is some women obviously like it or these guys wouldn't be the way they are.

― Ronan, Thursday, 13 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Also it's worth saying there are huge double standards out there damaging men aswell.

― Ronan, Thursday, 13 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...

What I want to know is - why are so many male ILxors up for the larger woman? To be honest, I'm rather embarassed about my tendency towards bigger girls and rarely speak about it with my peers.
There is such a stigma in being attracted to fat girls. Men are expected to like what they see on the front cover of the Star, but I rarely find these models attractive.
Is there a correlation between, maybe, loving music and loving rubenesque women?

― someone or other (dog latin), Friday, 15 August 2003 00:50 (twenty-one years ago)

AC/DC's 'Whole Lotta Rosie' to thread!

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Friday, 15 August 2003 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

me to thread!

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

(i've not seen this thread before! what's all that about?)

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

"moniroty" is my fave new word.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 15 August 2003 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm rather embarassed about my tendency towards bigger girls and rarely speak about it with my peers.

it's next to impossible to shut me up about it!

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

there are a hell of a lot of ilx men, but there are only a HANDFUL who are vocal about digging fat girls. and i'm loathe to give them brownie points just for that, though i do notice when people give props to the curvy woman, there is no reason that curvy women should GIVE A FUCK whether men validate them or not, because thats just subscribing to the whole lookist shit. i don't have any constructive solutions to this problem.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Friday, 15 August 2003 02:31 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm in a vile mood, but not because of this thread or the board. maybe i should take my sorry ass somewhere private and froth at the mouth a while.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Friday, 15 August 2003 02:47 (twenty-one years ago)

there is no reason that curvy women should GIVE A FUCK whether men validate them or not

of course not, they don't need validation, but they do need to realise that there are people who want them *just as they are*

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 02:51 (twenty-one years ago)

which is not to say that looking how you want to is very different to looking how you think others want you to..

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 02:52 (twenty-one years ago)

(is NOT different i mean)

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 02:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Lyrics from Debasser's "Fat Girls":

Why are fat girls always so frisky?
But you can't go touch 'em cos it's far to risky

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Friday, 15 August 2003 02:56 (twenty-one years ago)

jim- v true.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Friday, 15 August 2003 02:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I was also wondering why you hadnt appeared in this thread til now, Jim ;)

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Fat girls are also more ticklish, and laugh more.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:04 (twenty-one years ago)

really? i don't tickle people as a rule so i never knew that

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:07 (twenty-one years ago)

white men can't jump.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:09 (twenty-one years ago)

parker lewis can't lose

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Y Kant Tori Reid.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:12 (twenty-one years ago)

i can't explain.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:12 (twenty-one years ago)

you can't stop the music!!

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I just cant get enough...

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Hard to explain...

― j.lu (j.lu), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:23 (twenty-one years ago)

The reason I suspect fat white girls are more maligned than fat girls of any other color is that skinny white girls have long been the perfect media image of beauty. So where someone looks at a fat white girl and thinks, "If you lost some weight, you'd look like a model," girls of other races don't have that standard to live up to.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:26 (twenty-one years ago)

(Not that Starr Jones is exactly hot. There are limits.)

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:27 (twenty-one years ago)

No no! No no no no! No no no no! No no there's no limit!!

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Ok. It's just me then.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:33 (twenty-one years ago)

What does 'fat' mean in this context? 10-20-30 pounds overweight? Are we talking plus-sizes or Jerry Springer-get-me-out-of-my-house-by-crane (or, of course, somewhere in the middle)?

The media image of beauty (Lara Flynn Boyle?) and unhealthily 'fat' girls are usually equally unattractive in my camp.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Damn you Colin that'll be stuck in my head ALL DAY now >:(

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Lara Flynn Boyle is an image of media beauty? On what, planet of the beanstalks? Everyone I know says she looks ill.

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't mind a heavy lady. What I mind is someone who looks like they're not taking care of themselves.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I had a blank for names, Trayce, and my exposure to the mass media has been pretty minor lately.

Who would be the exemplification of the popular beauty image? Gwyneth Paltrow?

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Open a magazine. Any magazine.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:40 (twenty-one years ago)

But there are a lot of images. Pretty much the only universal characteristic I notice is being skinny. Not necessarily Kate Moss-skinny, though.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes. Skinny. What's your question again?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:42 (twenty-one years ago)

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=1400132

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Fat girls vs. skinny girls thread for ETHAN

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't see that as a media image of beauty, though. One characteristic that's promoted as possibly being beautiful, maybe.

If skinny is the media image of beauty that should translate across race.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I dont know what the context of "fat" is here, in that the OP would be long gone to the board... I'm sure most here would be in agreeance however that Ms Flynn Boyle, Gwynneth, Sarah Michelle Gellar et al are all way too thin.

To me, "big" is of the proportions of say, umm.... that other woman from the Practice whose name escapes me. I dont think she's "obese" at all, shes just what I'd class as large (as opposed to horribly thin). I dont like to use the word "fat", it has so many negative connotations.

(In case anyone's wondering, I'm quite on the petite side myself).

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:48 (twenty-one years ago)

If skinny is the media image of beauty that should translate across race.

It would, yes, if there were anything other than white girls depicted.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:49 (twenty-one years ago)

What is considered a "fat girl" these days? I really want to know.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't see that as a media image of beauty, though.

Goodness, milo. That seems pretty hard to miss. You just said that all the gilrs in ads are skinny. By default, that means we're supposed to think they're beautiful.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:51 (twenty-one years ago)

No, I'm saying i don't think of that as an 'image.' Image, to me, denotes an entire package - blonde, skinny, fake breasts, tanning salon life-membership, RATT tattoo. That's an image.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:00 (twenty-one years ago)

these threads depress me

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:22 (twenty-one years ago)

like, want to murder people with my bare hands depress me

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:22 (twenty-one years ago)

so maybe its more like enrage me

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Marilyn Monroe was size 14.
Suck on *that*

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:22 (twenty-one years ago)

also, there's something so depressingly ironic about this thread being started tonight that i want to projectile vomit all over my monitor.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:26 (twenty-one years ago)

That's a myth. Like many women, her weight fluctuated. She usually hovered around a size 7 or 8. On her worst day, she was a 14.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:26 (twenty-one years ago)

"worst day". kenan go fuck yourself.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Why so angry, jess?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Right, jess, I'm sure she looked so much better right before she turned blue and hit the carpet.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Keenan you are a moron.
That is not true.
Look at photos of her.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:29 (twenty-one years ago)

duud wtf mo cushion fo tha pushin! psh

― eat meat drink booze smoke drugs tap that ass!!! (nickalicious), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:30 (twenty-one years ago)

(ps I hate when people get all ser10us and arguey c'mon y'all!)

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:30 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.htm

I am not a moron, you daft fucking hippy.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:31 (twenty-one years ago)

(jess i think that the worst day kenan refers to is independent of her weight on said day)

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, why do we care what size MM was?

― oops (Oops), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:32 (twenty-one years ago)

if only we could drop sizes in a day.....

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:32 (twenty-one years ago)

No limt! We'll reach for the sky!!
No river too deep, no mountain too high!!

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah you pathetic FUCK i *am* a hippie and YOU are a moron, and I could write a contract that would make your dick shrivel, make a dinner that makes your mouth water, and jump hoops around all the lame supermodels you jack off to.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Orbit, I dislike you. Let's just leave it at that.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I dislike you in proportion to the idiocy of your commentary.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:36 (twenty-one years ago)

At last some common ground.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:37 (twenty-one years ago)

revel in it.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I dislike the way you two are being with each other. < /yeah who's the real hippy here eh?>

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:37 (twenty-one years ago)

you, sweetie, dahlink! come over, I will toast you! *click*

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I know. I must admit, though, I am not as angry as I may seem, and Orbit and I would probably have spirited arguments in private, but wouldn't bear any real ill will toward each other. That's just a guess. You piss me off, Orbit, but I admire your convictions, and I'm sorry I called you daft, and I kinda wish I could give you a hug.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:39 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe i should just post a picture of beth ditto and be done with it

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, just come ovah and buy me a drink, big fellah! ;-)

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Ok. More cab?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:42 (twenty-one years ago)

haha jim did you see the shoot INSIDE the magazine?!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:43 (twenty-one years ago)

no *sob*

(shit that reminds me! i forgot to get that StE LP!! there's a task for the weekend < /irrelevant>)

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:45 (twenty-one years ago)

ha i will just say that - thanx to my lovely lesbian roommate - there is now a postersize "beth ditto giving a blowjob" picture in my living room inbetween my ninja turtles and timberlake posters.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:46 (twenty-one years ago)

*/me scrolls up the thread and promptly kills Colin*

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:47 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.ladyfestbayarea.org/bands/images/gossipphoto.jpg

(And BTW, why are people assuming I'm being anti-fat? To tell the truth, I'm a little uncomfortable using the word "fat" so liberally, but that seemed to be the convention on the thread, and I went with it.)

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:47 (twenty-one years ago)

(No it is INDEED relevant Jim, and shit I hope that issue isn't gone yet, it shouldn't be they keep it around for a month or two)

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:48 (twenty-one years ago)

i want that strongo life swap MORE THAN EVER

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:49 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm going to Heartland first thing tomorrow!!

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it the ninja turtles porn photo?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Which is why I said I didnt like to use the word. I suspect people will misinterpret the tone of this thread. No one is dissin' the curvy girls.. are they?

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:49 (twenty-one years ago)

No, no.

Maybe "fat" is a word you can take the piss out of by making it your own, like "fag." I'm no stick myself, you know.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:50 (twenty-one years ago)

dude I'm so gonna start using the word 'moniroty' all teh time now!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:51 (twenty-one years ago)

So is it wrong to prefer someone who isn't too skinny or too fat?

― oops (Oops), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:51 (twenty-one years ago)

it's not "wrong" to prefer whoever you prefer

unless you're purposefully avoiding being with someone you do or might love because they're too skinny or too fat. < /mom's common sense>

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:52 (twenty-one years ago)

strongo is wise

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:52 (twenty-one years ago)

anyway kenan, i apologize for snapping. this is just a subject which has been, uh, plaguing me tonite.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

And it also assumes everyone has a specific, unchanging preference doesnt it?

And I dont know many who do... everyone I know has dated people of all kinds of sizes (self included).

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

fnarr

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Me too.

How has it been plaguing you, jess?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:54 (twenty-one years ago)

*hits jim*

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:54 (twenty-one years ago)

fnord.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:54 (twenty-one years ago)

it's really hard sometimes to date someone who's rather unapologetically "fat" (speaking of reclaiming the word) when you've got a raft of your own body issues (i.e. you really loathe being fat, and you try not to subconsciously transfer that onto her in any way, cuz it's not her problem.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:57 (twenty-one years ago)

it's just the same old shit i've been dealing with since adolescence blah blah wibbles dies.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:57 (twenty-one years ago)

oh strongo, it's ok... have a glass of wine w/ me and Keenan. *sluuurrppp*

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:58 (twenty-one years ago)

i find that fascinating, i have almost the opposite problem to strongo. i don't like my body but instead of projecting that, i project the fact that i wish i *didn't* have a problem with it..

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:00 (twenty-one years ago)

er, if that makes any sense at all.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:00 (twenty-one years ago)

cue doomie to accuse me of being a feeder again

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:00 (twenty-one years ago)

feeder?

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I went from skinny as a rail to about 30 lbs overweight in three years. From 140 to around 190. I'm a small-framed guy, and 190 does not suit me. I used to have one weight problem (the Lara Flynn Boyle one), and now I have another. I despair of ever evening out.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:02 (twenty-one years ago)

(i try in general not to talk about this stuff on ile cuz - and really, no offense to anyone - it's kinda "pointless": i whine about my problems, a few people offer comisseration and/or advice and then it dissipates into the ether. i always kinda regret posting to any of the self-help threads.)

x-post: i've NEVER been comfortable with my body, and i seemingly have no way to disguise the fact. as anyone who hangs out with me - when i'm not on anti-d's - will notice, i am constantly picking at my body in various ways: plucking at pants or shirts, adjusting collars or legs, nervously shifting in my seat, squeezing my arms or legs. it's actually gotten much better.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe you're a woman trapped in a man's body.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:04 (twenty-one years ago)

essentialism, anyone?

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:05 (twenty-one years ago)

a monstrous woman, but perhaps you're right.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Youre no feeder jim! You never give me any damn food ;P

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:07 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm handy with chocolate and ice cream

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:07 (twenty-one years ago)

*takes notes*

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I sincerely doubt you're monstrous, jess. Why? Do you have a centaur booty?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:09 (twenty-one years ago)

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO CENTAUR BOOTY PICS PUHLEEZE THANKYEWVARYMUCHah!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:11 (twenty-one years ago)

(cuz that one on that one thread yesterday seriously gave me nightmares I shit you not!)

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:12 (twenty-one years ago)

it's all going pear shaped

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:13 (twenty-one years ago)

well, ideally

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:13 (twenty-one years ago)

jim, pears are beee--yoo-ti--ful!
fear not!

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:14 (twenty-one years ago)

i think the answer to this thread's pressing question has to do something "booty"

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:17 (twenty-one years ago)

i'd quite happily do something "booty"

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Ass is the new cleavage.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:18 (twenty-one years ago)

ts: trucker hats vs trucker cleavage

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:20 (twenty-one years ago)

eeewwww--i'm outta here!

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:22 (twenty-one years ago)

i'd do a lot of things "booty" but no, not that

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:25 (twenty-one years ago)

indeed

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:25 (twenty-one years ago)

jim would u do the limbo "booty"

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:35 (twenty-one years ago)

you best believe it

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 15 August 2003 05:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Ok. As a fat girl I have quite strong opinions about this entire thing;

I've been fat since I was nine years old so I've never had the knowledge of what it's been like to be thin rather than fat.
I've taken my share of abuse for it, but really I don't care a huge amount about it anymore. I have difficulty buying clothes and that drives me nuts, but the situation is definetely improving.. I don't really think it's fair to accuse fat women of not taking care of themselves when there are far fewer options for them to buy decently made well fitting clothes. Most of the stuff that's out there is either incredibly floral and makes me look like manchester or is a muu muu.
I don't think that fat is a bad word, some of the connotations that come with it are bad, but that's not 'fat's' fault.
I don't like hanging around with a lot of fat people, I don't like the way it looks, like I'm not worthy of 'thin' people's company.. but that's my stereotype and it's not fair on anyone.
Most of my friends are absolutely gorgeous, and I am very shallow.. I doubt I'd be my own friend.. but they spend alot of time obsessing over their looks, whether they're too fat or unnattractive when they're stunners.. it bores me.
I haven't ever had a proper boyfriend, that's more my issues with guys then people not finding me attractive.
As for the media portrayals, I think Lara Flynn Boyle is absolutely gorgeous, as is Camryn Manheim.. beauty runs the gamut of different sizes and shapes and the media responds to the publics demands.
So if you don't like it, don't buy it or watch it.
I no longer read beauty magazines and if I do I read them with a very critical eye.
Last night I had a very long convo with a gorgeous blonde girl and it was like having a conversation with an issue of cosmo, I walked away feeling very lucky to be a fat brunette.
this probably doesn't make sense, but I'm going to go have the lovely dinner minna just made for me.

― Nellie (nellskies), Friday, 15 August 2003 08:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Marilyn Monroe was size 14.

Just to bring up this painful moment from yesterday again--this is a misleading comment of the nth degree. Size charts have gotten expotentially larger since then. What was a "size 14" in the early '60s is not even remotely the same size as what is a size 14 now. She was much closer to what is 8/10 now a days for the majority of her career (obv fluctuations etc). This is just a fact of life; if you want to bolster commentary about "larger" sizes being beautiful there are plenty of women that actually do fit this size 12+ argument that you could use (Liv Tyler's sister to thread, Sophie Dahl, Emme, Kate Winslet during Titanic period, Faith Evans...)

I don't understand why Marilyn Monroe is brought into ALL of these debates. Have any of you ever seen any of her actual costumes, etc? Marilyn Monroe was about my size, with slightly bigger breasts. I wear a size 6 on my "fat" days. As a rather avid Monroe fan, I can't stand untruths being spread around about her.

This is not a commentary on weight itself.

― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 15 August 2003 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually the marilyn monroe argument is just kind of bizarre because it's just so obvious that's she's nowhere near a s14. What she wore it well? it makes no sense. I far more convincing argument is this;

http://www.judgmentofparis.com/images/KD13.jpg

booyah.

― Nellie (nellskies), Friday, 15 August 2003 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

She looks pretty amazing!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 15 August 2003 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm always worried that my penis will be too small for a girl that big. Irrational? Maybe.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 14:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Heh. Did I just answer the question that is the title of this thread?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 14:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Not really. I know for a fact that there are plenty of white dudes with big dicks. Sorry.

― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 15 August 2003 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)

It was a joke, son. A joke, you hear?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the word exponentially has been misused on this thread.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 15 August 2003 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

It's bangin', son. Or not, apparently, in this case...

― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 15 August 2003 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Pete say you take 2 to the 3rd power etc etc it has not you pedantic maths beyotch.

― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 15 August 2003 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't get this thread at all - i don't have any kind of problem with women's size... if someone's attractive, they're attractive, that's it... it's equally possible to be attractive at either end of the size range, provided that yr not anorexic or chronically obese - being unhealthy = not attractive

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 15 August 2003 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

then again, it's not really something i've ever thought about and the only criteria i lay down for women i gou out with is that the should ideally be shorter than me or at a push, than same height...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 15 August 2003 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Look at Marilyn and then open up a fashion mag.
Marilyn, has *thighs* (remember those in the days b4 lipo)?
She has breasts (not silicone)
She has hips, and upper arms!
Compare pics!

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

who stole the pig from the end of the apple in that pic?

just kiddin' (badly)

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 15 August 2003 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

"I tell you, it's a whole different sex."

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I really hope this dress is in a museum.

http://www.digischool.nl/ckv1/film/hot3.jpg

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

i am torn about that picture (the one before the marilyn one kenan just posted) cuz on the one hand she's got a hella fine body - she looks kinda like my girlfriend - but that chaka khan fright wig she's sporting just terrifies me.

really, i am realizing more and more that good hair, shoes, clothes, accessories (and my definition of "good" is pretty broad/weird) means more to me than any body type ever could.

christ i'm shallow. and even worse, i'm sub-culturally shallow.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Ally OTM about Marilyn, she was only slightly more zaftig than the average starlet today. I imagine she inspired as many body issues among women as Jennfier Aniston or whomever.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 15 August 2003 17:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Look at Marilyn and then open up a fashion mag.
Marilyn, has *thighs* (remember those in the days b4 lipo)?
She has breasts (not silicone)
She has hips, and upper arms

So, basically, what you are saying is that these things don't exist on anyone under a size 12-14? You're as a bad as people who discriminate against heavy people, in that case.

You take a look at Marilyn Monroe. The woman was clearly not overweight or even a size 14 by today's definition of a size 14. Anyone who has worked within fashion or has experience with vintage clothes will tell you the same thing--a size 12 or 14 then is MUCH SMALLER than one today.

This has nothing to do with weight. This has to do with facts. Like I said, use a beautiful woman who this actually applies to as your example.

― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Dammit look closely at the picture of her getting her skirt blown up from the subway vent. LOOK at it! If she walked into a modeling agency today they would throw her *out*

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, please point to where someone said "Oh Marilyn Monroe is easily the same size as Jaime King" and then I will say "You're so right!"

For someone so smug about how stupid and inconsequential every ILX discussion is, you need to learn reading comprehension a bit better. I'm sorry, I'm a little goddamned testy today.

I would also be thrown out of a modelling agency. This doesn't stop the fact that I'm NOT A SIZE 14.

― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

This is going to sound really fucking hoity toity but I don't care. Here comes a piece of my mind for ILX today.

Somebody asks one of the stupidest, most insipid questions this board has ever seen and immediately 500 people all jump over themselves to answer it and discuss the issue. I am really, really bewildered.

― Millar (Millar), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Ally go to hell. Stay there.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey Jimmay, how come d'you think it is that them black fellas is always goin' on about big booties???

― Millar (Millar), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow Orbit that was really mature and called for, congratulations on completely losing your shit for no good reason at all

― Millar (Millar), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)

whats wrong with that? you can either dismiss the question and the person who posed it as stupid or you can attempt to take a dumb question and explore exactly what stereotype exists that could provoke such a question. or, as it seems most people have done, just point out the virtues of a fuller figure. you get threads like this every week you know.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Zing!

(XP x 4)

― oops (Oops), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:16 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry, x-post with the previous 3

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey, Millar, when Ally makes a personal insult to me, she can go to hell.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah but people are getting really angry about this and I don't see the point in it at all. I'd prefer the question was dismissed to start with.

― Millar (Millar), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Orbit: Whatever!

― Millar (Millar), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Ally says: For someone so smug about how stupid and inconsequential every ILX discussion is, you need to learn reading comprehension a bit better

Therefore if she can dish it out, she better be able to take it.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

fwiw i'm white and i have no problem with fat girls. i can't say i've fancied more than one or two in my life, but that probably says more about me than anything/one else, doesn't it? my friends say i like girls who look like boys, which probably says more...you get the idea.

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:20 (twenty-one years ago)

hahaha! The ironing is delicious!

― oops (Oops), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:20 (twenty-one years ago)

everyone just needs to have sex i figure

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

bags not Vyv!

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.feminismus.cz/img/clanky/ironing.jpg

― Millar (Millar), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

is that a *fat* butt, tho?

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:23 (twenty-one years ago)

millar wins. the end...

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah I'm kind of in awe of that picture myself, I can't believe that it exists and I found it

― Millar (Millar), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Dammit. I thought I'd gotten my manual killfile to work, but whenever there's a new post I need to move the masking tape. Goddamn machines.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the artist used a compass to draw that ass.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 15 August 2003 21:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Orbit, apparently the only way anyone can get you to stop doing monologues is to throw insults your way or point out that someone doesn't like you, so I figured that was the only way to get you off your untrue tangent. Like I said, sorry for being testy but it works with you every time.

Tom, wtf is that picture?

― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 15 August 2003 22:03 (twenty-one years ago)

pot.
kettle.
black.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I typed 'ironing' in google image search!! I pulled a Dada!! I don't know!!!

― Millar (Millar), Friday, 15 August 2003 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

that picture left me speechless

― Tad (llamasfur), Friday, 15 August 2003 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)

can get you to stop doing monologues
What monologues?
Whatever.

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 15 August 2003 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

From Lynn Peril's Mystery Date issue five:

"Allow me to mount a soapbox for a moment. I'm tired of hearing from various quarters that 'Marilyn Monroe was a size 12.' While M.M. was indeed fleshier than many of the stick-women popular in today's fashion and entertainment circles, the size 12 she may have worn in the 1960s was much smaller than the size 12 of 1996. For example, according to the 1969 edition of How You Look and Dress, a Misses' size 12 measured 34-25 1/2- 36. Today, a size 12 is approximately 38-29 1/2-40 1/2 (though as every woman knows, size vary widely from manufacturer to manufacturer.) Monroe's measurements "in her prime" according to dress designer Billy Travilla) were 35-22-35 spread over a 5'51/2", 117 pound frame- hardly a current size 12 by any standard."

― rosemary (rosemary), Friday, 15 August 2003 22:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I ask again: who cares what size she was? Is it gonna change people's attitudes towards fat people?
"Baby, before I knew Marilyn was a size 14 I thought you were way too heavy...now you're HOTTT!"

― oops (Oops), Friday, 15 August 2003 22:39 (twenty-one years ago)

momus to thread.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 15 August 2003 23:16 (twenty-one years ago)

the key concept missing from this thread is "inner booty"

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 15 August 2003 23:55 (twenty-one years ago)

i have no problems with the word "fat" (depending of course on how its used), its a hell of a lot less offensive than the word "overweight". but yeah, i kind of feel wrong in posting to this thread, cos i AM curvy and occasionally struggle with my body image but i've never been a victim of fatphobia, which i assume only happens to fatter peeps than me. i dunno, all these definitions make me sad.

― The Lady Ms Dogshit (lucylurex), Saturday, 16 August 2003 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

The clothing in Marilyn Monroe's estate at the time of her death are roughly equivalent to contemporary US size 4 to 8 (she had "fat" and "skinny" wardrobes, depending on whether or not she had dieted down for a movie role).

The size 14/16/18 myth appears to stem from an early movie where she says she's size 14. However, people who have handled vintage clothes from that period say that that size is closer to a contemporary US size 10.

― j.lu (j.lu), Saturday, 16 August 2003 02:07 (twenty-one years ago)

i have no problems with the word "fat"

Yeah, but your screen name is "dogshit."

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 16 August 2003 02:11 (twenty-one years ago)

J. lu, that sounds about right. You know, what occurs to me is that not only have sizes changed, the cut of lots of fashionable clothing has changed as well - so that at the time, Marilyn's size 8 (or whatever) dresses would emphasize curves and an hourglass figure - while you saw much more empahsis on a straight line, even a boyish figure a la Kate Moss, throughout the 90s.

It does seem (me in stating obvious shocker etc) that this subject really provokes a v. strong response from lots of women. I've had prob a complex about body image, to greater/lesser degree, since about age 12, I should say. What's worrisome is this almost seems normal to me 'cause many of my friends have the same. I suppose I am skinny by any normal standard, so I read Elle and Vogue just to make sure my idea of what's 'normal' and 'skinny' is appropriately warped. :)

Incidentally, despite my constant defensiveness about being 'grande comme une americaine' when I was in France, I was surprised by a really different attitude about weight. Surely it wasn't everyones' - what I noticed came from reading lots of fashion magazines and women's magazines, mostly. I was struck by the tone of the articles on diet, fitness, personal care and such, as well as the way my housemate and our neighbors talked about these subjects. It was as if taking care to stay slim is just what one does, a matter of course - and how to do so was addressed more directly without any need to address readers' various complexes about motivation, body image, etc.

So when several neighbors talked about how their diets were going, I think I was the only one whose immediate reaction was to want to say, "No, that's not necessary, don't do that, you are fine just the way you are."

― daria g (daria g), Saturday, 16 August 2003 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)

On the topic of sizes it also pays to note that what a size represents varies wildly from place to place - in Australia, an average "thin" size is 8-10 (I'm regarded as small tho not thin and I am a 12). To be a 4-6 you'd have to be a tiny person or perhaps even a child. 12-14 is average size, 16 is starting into "large" for us.

Hearing people say "I'm a size 6" always freaks me out, cos thats like Kate Moss or less size in Aust garments. I wish I knew measurements so I could be less vague...

― Trayce (trayce), Saturday, 16 August 2003 03:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Daria, I think that's a good thing for the most part. At the very least, there seems to be a lack of shame about the subject of weight, which almost certainly leads to less eating disorders. While it could be dangerous to *always* be on some crazy diet, and while it's true that some girls are *supposed* to be bigger than others, being immersed in a culture where weight is habitually controlled seems healthier. Habitually controlling your weight *is* healthier, no subjectivity required. You have to admit, Americans are fat, and not always in a way that I can condone.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 16 August 2003 03:35 (twenty-one years ago)

But, I should add, you can't guilt someone out of being fat. The American relationship with food seems too often like the Catholic relationship with premarital sex. Sinful sinful sinful, but oh GOD it's so good... guilt-fueled anything is unhealthy. And in the situation you described, there's a lot of diet and exercise, but precious little guilt. Good for the French.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 16 August 2003 03:39 (twenty-one years ago)

*laughing*

If I dealt with the Americentric guilt of enjoying food the same way I deal with the Catholicism-centered guilt of having premarital sex, I'd make Lara Flynn Boyle look like the Michelin Man. Perhaps it's the fact that the only way I can really treat myself, nurture myself, spoil myself, is through food, that has prevented me from becoming a walking skeleton.

― Just Deanna (Dee the Lurker), Saturday, 16 August 2003 04:33 (twenty-one years ago)

the only way I can really treat myself, nurture myself, spoil myself, is through food

I don't know you at all, but I sincerely doubt that's true.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 16 August 2003 04:39 (twenty-one years ago)

For instance, have you tried alcohol? Maybe a little weed now and again... hey, don't laugh. Everybody needs something. Everybody needs balance.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 16 August 2003 04:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Alcohol? Actually seems like quite a good idea. Even if it's a glass of wine at night, which would mean I would be consuming more alcohol in a month than I've done throughout the whole of my lifetime as of now. Weed? Don't trust myself with it. Besides, I'm supremely hard on myself and would probably be wracked with guilt should I take that up. You're totally right in re: "Everybody needs something. Everybody needs balance.", though. You couldn't be more OTM there. The question is, what would be some healthier examples of "something", of that "balance"? I'm looking for rather inexpensive ideas here, so unfortunately anything to do with lots of shopping isn't going to cut it just yet. :)

― Just Deanna (Dee the Lurker), Saturday, 16 August 2003 04:48 (twenty-one years ago)

It's different for everybody, I guess. It's whatever Curly's finger represents. (HA! Wisdom from the movie City Slickers. Don't listen to me, I'm cracked.)

I'm no therapist, but it seems to me that you have earned the right to have far more confidence than you do. Is this because of your body image?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 16 August 2003 04:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't listen to me, I'm cracked.

But at the same time, totally on the money.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 16 August 2003 04:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm large or fat or curvy or whatever you want to call it. And I'm pretty much fine with that fact. I used to really struggle with my self-esteem and being mad because I wasn't starving myself into a Twiggy-like figure. Then at some point I came to realize that I am attractive and that I am sexy and that I am desirable, and to hell with that whole 'societal' thing. (It helped that I was involved with several people who constantly re-enforced the idea that I was sexy and wonderful ... getting that pounded into your consciousness several times a day is a great way to change one's own mantra.)

I do think that some cultures have a very different feeling about body size and shape; I seem to appeal to Middle Eastern and Mediterranean and Hispanic men more then I appeal to those of a nordic descent. Of course, I prefer dark-haired men (and women) in general. But I object to the title of this thread, as it seems to be far too severe of a generalization. I am white and I find larger sized women and men to be attractive. I don't like the assumption that all white people hold a view that all fat women are unattractive. I also do not like the characterization of women as 'girls' in this context. (Though maybe the implication is that it's not attractive for a 'girl' [birth to early teens?] to be large, but that it's okay for older women to be so?)

The biggest thing for me, related to body size, is whether or not someone is healthy and happy. I'm large. I'm also absurdly strong and fairly fit. I don't have a lot of quick speed but I have endurance. (A friend of mine used to call me a BMW or a Burly Mountain Woman. It's an apt description in many ways, though I can do the feminine schtick when it's required.) So long as someone is healthy and exercises regularly (meaning raises heart-rate for a certain period of time, not weight-lifting or compulsively exercising) and takes care of themselves, then they're quite all right in my book. And the chances are that I will find them attractive. (Though I am not certain how much of that attraction is based on body size/fitness level and how much is based on being attracted to someone who likes themselves and cares for themselves.)

― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:03 (twenty-one years ago)

The title of this thread no longer fits this thread at all. So be it.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:08 (twenty-one years ago)

It's different for everybody, I guess. It's whatever Curly's finger represents. (HA! Wisdom from the movie City Slickers. Don't listen to me, I'm cracked.)

Hey, I loved City Slickers! But yeah, you're right. (That would be in response to the first sentence, of course.)

I'm no therapist, but it seems to me that you have earned the right to have far more confidence than you do. Is this because of your body image?

Partly, and also partly because of my overall image. I like to pretend I have reams of self-assuredness and that I walk tall with my head raised at all times, but in reality I'm always going to think I've failed whatever physical standards I've set for myself, self-assigned personal standards in general, or society's general standards. Much of this thread makes me feel a little bit relieved that I don't have the same physique as a Julia Roberts or a Cindy Crawford, but I'm always going to have those demons inside telling me I look hideous.

Does this make any sense at all?

― Just Deanna (Dee the Lurker), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:09 (twenty-one years ago)

It makes more than sense. It makes you a true American. Rejoice! You're a fuckin' PATRIOT!

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Dee, if you're really loking for ways to treat yourself better and start strengthening your self-confidence, then find things that you like that are healthy and that affirm that life is good. Like walks and baths and good books and good/healthy food.

For me, so much self-esteem now comes from knowing that the world is good and that I am making a good contribution to the world. And that first step is to start seeing what is good and celebrating that in whatever way you are comfortable with. Food is not a bad place to start from; but look at what you're eating and how it's prepared. I used to detest vegetables and ate a lot of starches instead. But then I learned that when veggies are not cooked to a bland, tasteless mush they are actually good. Take pride in what you make. Take pride in serving it to yourself and to your family and friends. You're creating hedonistic, nurturing, wonderful dishes for those that you love. And in that you are doing something to build-up yourself.

I know this all sounds hokey. But if you're serious about wanting to get through this state of mind then start with the more simple things and work your way forward. It's a struggle at first. But with some outside 'applause' at your efforts and acknowledgement of your gifts that you share with others you will start to realize just how valuable and important and beautiful you are. And when you start to feel down on yourelf, reach out and let people know that you need to be bolstered-up for a bit. We all need that, but it's hard to ask for. Ask those that you trust and that you love; they'll be happy to help you along this path.

― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Thank you for posting that, Ms Laura. This raises my hopes again, even though I seem to be most attracted to "white" (read: of European heritage) males. (Though you can have some of my cousins. *grin*)

The title of this thread no longer fits this thread at all. So be it.

Can't this thread be both on-topic and off-topic at the same time? I'd like it that way.

It makes more than sense. It makes you a true American. Rejoice! You're a fuckin' PATRIOT!

*laugh* The hilarious thing is that I am a "true American" AND a "fuckin' PATRIOT!". That can't be the answer, though, can it?

― Just Deanna (Dee the Lurker), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, thank you for posting your second post, the one geared specifically toward me. All of it is 100% sound advice and will be followed. Absolutely.

― Just Deanna (Dee the Lurker), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:16 (twenty-one years ago)

One of the things that I used to hate was when people would say "Oh, you have lovely eyes" or "That's such a beautiful smile" and other crap like that. I didn't give a damn about my eyes or my smile. I wanted to be sexy and to be desired. (Which may well account for early promiscuity, in retrospect.)

Our society says that women need to be sexy. And in order to be sexy we need to be skinny. Yet if you look at lingerie models, while they're on the slender end of things, they're still a lot curvier than the women that you see on the walkways at fashion shows. Women are supposed to be curvy and warm and soft. I found/find that it helps to buy lingerie from places like Lane Bryant where the models are larger sized and beautiful and sexy.

― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Women are supposed to be curvy and warm and soft.

They usually can't help it. God bless 'em.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:19 (twenty-one years ago)

*furiously jots down notes*

*stops, thinks for a moment*

Ms Laura dearie, ok if this moves onto e-mail? Don't want to COMPLETELY derail the original topic at hand! Even though I know your post has some relevance with the original discussion, it would still be nice to have this exchange in a more private arena. Danke.

*continues scribbling*

― Just Deanna (Dee the Lurker), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:21 (twenty-one years ago)

http://members.rogers.com/gigivontrapp/vascopics/namsit.jpg

― chaki (chaki), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:23 (twenty-one years ago)

*smiling* You and I have similar body shapes and sizes, Dee. And you can be assured that I've ended-up with two far-too-Caucasian-for-my-tastes wonderful men who find me sexy and desirable and funny and intelligent and all of those other things. And they tell me that.

Don't settle for anyone who doesn't love you for all of you, or who wants to somehow change you. There is a wonderful person out here who will be the right one for you. And maybe they'll be more comfortable making their move when they know that you love yourself as well. (I know that I used to always be putting myself down, and believing what I was saying, until someone pointed-out to me that it was impossible to give me a compliment because I just contradicted them and refused to accept it, which implied that they were stupid to offer it in the first place. Maybe you're falling into that pattern?)

Anyway, reach out to us here - we've been where you are and can be your cheering section (and we can snarl at anyone who isn't supportive of you, too *grin*).

(X-POST .. Dee, email is fine, as is AIM.)(X-POST 2 ... Kenan, you need a really big hug for saying that. Thank you.)

― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I like hugs.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Yay, Chaki!

For excellent plus-sized lingerie (with plus-sized models) also try: http://www.hipsandcurves.com

http://www.hipsandcurves.com/img/x8601jad.jpg

(X-POST - They're one of the best things in the world, I think, Kenan.)

― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I've always known myself to be curvy and have never been the kind of girl to obssess about weight. I have a few extra pounds, I know. But I love to eat and drink and have a good time and figure this love of life outweighs (pardon the pun) anything extra society might deem unacceptable. (like I really give a fuck. . .)

However I saw a recent pic of myself today and was surprised by how fat and unattractive I looked. :( I felt really bad and unsexy.

Then I ate a huge piece of truffle chocolate marble cake and had a few beers and forgot about it.

― Texas Sam (thatgirl), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Patriots unite!

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 16 August 2003 05:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Women are supposed to be curvy and warm and soft.

Mmmm yeah...too many (much?) curves are better than none at all.

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 16 August 2003 07:52 (twenty-one years ago)

what sam said. sometimes i look in the mirror and realise "holy fuck i'm not as attractive as i think i am" but i just get on with it. the thing is i am an active person - like most curvy women are - and i don't have the time to obsess about something so trivial.

kenan, i don't object to the word "fat", because its a lovely word with bad connotations. i like the idea of reclaiming it. the word "overweight" is intrinsically normative - it implies a "normal" weight and designates a person to be "over" it, and that sucks.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Saturday, 16 August 2003 07:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm very pleased to see that di is once again Ms Lurex.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 16 August 2003 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

(cos that other name was a bummer)

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 16 August 2003 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

no joke. for her especially.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 16 August 2003 08:11 (twenty-one years ago)

well yeah, cos she's totally great and I MUST get an International Telepaths CD.. I made duane be my friendster so I will hit him up pronto..

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 16 August 2003 08:17 (twenty-one years ago)

that other name was an I Rate Everything joke.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Saturday, 16 August 2003 08:21 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, cool! I was hoping that wasn't some sort of bad self-esteem thing! also, I didn't to make it sound like I'm all trying to finagle the IT cd from duane - just that I, uh, owe him some CDrs (cough, cough). So it would probably be easier to do an exchange that way..

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 16 August 2003 08:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Fucking hell Kenan, are you actually me? I put on a stone a year at university, I'm now 5'8" and about 180pounds, though Emma assures me I carry it well.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Saturday, 16 August 2003 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

don't panic, i'm sure it can be arranged. :-)

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Saturday, 16 August 2003 08:33 (twenty-one years ago)

that was to mr diamond.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Saturday, 16 August 2003 08:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Fucking hell Kenan, are you actually me?

Your American eqivalent, anyway.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Saturday, 16 August 2003 08:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow. I notice we have similar glasses too.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Saturday, 16 August 2003 08:39 (twenty-one years ago)

And both love Maxinquaye.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Saturday, 16 August 2003 08:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Not to mention 2 Unlimited.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Saturday, 16 August 2003 21:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Nick, that happened to me as well. I'm 5' 9" and went from 150 to 180 in the two years after leaving university. I'm now 190.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Sunday, 17 August 2003 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Time travel, ladies and gentlemen.

― David. (Cozen), Sunday, 17 August 2003 17:27 (twenty-one years ago)

And I don't look a day over 27. Modern technology is a wonderful thing.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Sunday, 17 August 2003 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

i would also like to add that i too enjoy hugs. unfortunately, i do not receive them often enough. this makes me wanna go have another beer.

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Monday, 18 August 2003 02:43 (twenty-one years ago)

six months pass...

How come I haven't read something like, "I like smart women" or "I like funny women". I don't want someone dating me just because I've got big boobs, long hair, or a pretty face. I mean, sure, I want a person I'm dating to find me attractive, but I'd rather them be more interested in what's going on inside my head. People under estimate the power of a wonderful personality. Example: If I'm talking to a guy who at first glance I think is bad looking, if his personality is great, I just stop caring about the looks, because I'm seeing how sweet or funny he is. On the other hand, if I'm talking to a guy who is definately hot, but he's got the personality of a brick wall...well, he just looking worse and worse as the conversation progresses. (If it even goes far.)

― ButterflyGirl, Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:16 (twenty-one years ago)

you crazy!

― kirsten (kirsten), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:21 (twenty-one years ago)

wow

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:23 (twenty-one years ago)

this thread needed a beth pic

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:23 (twenty-one years ago)

show me a smart/funny woman and I will show you a ________.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

good time?

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

penis?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

as requested

http://ourworld.cs.com/MeSoLoca/ditto.jpg

― ipsofacto (ipsofacto), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:26 (twenty-one years ago)

that does not look like a penis.

― kirsten (kirsten), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:26 (twenty-one years ago)

much.

― kirsten (kirsten), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:27 (twenty-one years ago)

try not to focus, when you look at it.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:28 (twenty-one years ago)

i have a problem with fat girls. a *sexy* problem.

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:28 (twenty-one years ago)

rowr.

― luna (luna.c), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Clearly this is the best thread ever.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:29 (twenty-one years ago)

show me a *sexy* problem and I'll show you a _______________________.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:29 (twenty-one years ago)

penis problem?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:29 (twenty-one years ago)

hard and fast solution

(xp)

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:29 (twenty-one years ago)

all your guesses are OK.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:30 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe you should *tell* me about this *problem* sometime esoj :)

― ipsofacto (ipsofacto), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:30 (twenty-one years ago)

i have all sorts of sexy problems

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)

well then let me be your therapist

― ipsofacto (ipsofacto), Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:49 (twenty-one years ago)

'How come I haven't read something like, "I like smart women" or "I like funny women". I don't want someone dating me just because I've got big boobs, long hair, or a pretty face. I mean, sure, I want a person I'm dating to find me attractive, but I'd rather them be more interested in what's going on inside my head. People under estimate the power of a wonderful personality. Example: If I'm talking to a guy who at first glance I think is bad looking, if his personality is great, I just stop caring about the looks, because I'm seeing how sweet or funny he is. On the other hand, if I'm talking to a guy who is definately hot, but he's got the personality of a brick wall...well, he just looking worse and worse as the conversation progresses. (If it even goes far.) '

Do you have big boobs?

― pete s, Thursday, 26 February 2004 02:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I live to be desired. sometimes. well, maybe not. I don't know...

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 26 February 2004 03:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I was so full of shit on this thread.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 26 February 2004 03:52 (twenty-one years ago)

also jess had a girlfriend

― Patrick Kinghorn, Thursday, 26 February 2004 03:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought that the trouble with fat girls is that they're always so frisky, but you can't go touching cos it's far too risky?

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 26 February 2004 04:04 (twenty-one years ago)

risky in what way? that's what i always wondered. risky in that you might enjoy it too much?

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 26 February 2004 04:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, surface noise, like you I just assumed risky cos they're so hot that they'll fry your the pleasure centres in your brain.

I think this theory has some support, from my own experience anyway.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 26 February 2004 04:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Freddy Mercury ain't got no beef with the big laydeez.

― Allyzay, Thursday, 26 February 2004 04:14 (twenty-one years ago)

As a fatty I wouldn't want to fry them so much that they didn't work anymore. I mean, then you'd just have to go find another willing young man wouldn't you?

x-post

― ipsofacto (ipsofacto), Thursday, 26 February 2004 04:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I made a sir mix-a-lot joke on this thread. I am the corniest motherfucker alive.

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 26 February 2004 04:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Bon Scott said it best on 'Whole Lotta Rosie'.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 26 February 2004 04:28 (twenty-one years ago)

but there are plenty of willing young men the world over!

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 26 February 2004 04:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I have my heart set on just the one -fryed pleasure centre or not

― ipsofacto (ipsofacto), Thursday, 26 February 2004 04:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Awwwwwww.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 26 February 2004 04:36 (twenty-one years ago)

but esoj isn't young colin, i must be talking about someone different :P

― ipsofacto (ipsofacto), Thursday, 26 February 2004 04:40 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread also marks the beginning of the Orbit debacle.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 26 February 2004 06:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah...wow, was she an asshole or what.

― Prude (Prude), Thursday, 26 February 2004 06:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Freddy Mercury ain't got no beef with the big laydeez.
-- Allyzay (sig...), February 26th, 2004.

That works on SO many levels.

― mei (mei), Thursday, 26 February 2004 08:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Orbit makes the rockin world go 'round!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 26 February 2004 15:34 (twenty-one years ago)

nine months pass...

Good Times.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:00 (twenty years ago)

We got 99 problems but a fat girl ain't one

― Frankenstein On Ice (blueski), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:03 (twenty years ago)

http://valdefierro.com/timesd12.jpg

― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:06 (twenty years ago)

Spencer was actually making sweet love to a couple of large ladies all throughout this thread.

― Frankenstein On Ice (blueski), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:11 (twenty years ago)

Act your age momma, not your dress size!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:12 (twenty years ago)

I'm just going to totally change the topic, you bastard:

http://www.awfulplasticsurgery.com/archives/005276.html

Is that for real? There is no way that first person is Paris Hilton. WTF?

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:14 (twenty years ago)

Actually, I don't see much difference. The potential for the new Paris is in the old pics, even without surgery.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:16 (twenty years ago)

Everyone who lives in L.A. for a while changes.

In fact, you might know me by my previous name: Dabney.
http://www.calarts.edu/~nstrum/macmame/reviews/warrev/warjpgs/forehead.jpg

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:18 (twenty years ago)

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:19 (twenty years ago)

I just had no idea that a person would be so desperate to look different that they'd bleach their hair, get plastic surgery, sport a ridiculous fake tan, become anorexic, AND START SPORTING DIFFERENT COLORED EYE BALLS! What do her parents have to say, is what I wonder, looking at those photos.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:20 (twenty years ago)

Ally, don't judge me!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:22 (twenty years ago)

Dabney Coleman: Secret Asian Man.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:23 (twenty years ago)

That's half-Asian to you, crackah!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:24 (twenty years ago)

Actually, that gives a whole new meaning to my new preferred self-identification term: CRAZIAN.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:26 (twenty years ago)

I see people with bleached hair and ridiculous fake tans trying to look all paris-like all the time round my 'hood. It is quite laughable and sad that they actually think they look hot ;/

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:26 (twenty years ago)

Please. Don't "crackah" me. I am half-spic, thank you.

Why do I feel like this conversation would be better suited to the noise board.

xpost CRAZIAN!!!!!!!!

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:26 (twenty years ago)

I like me this Crazian tag.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:27 (twenty years ago)

i like tom's first post on this thread. my thoughts, articulated more clearly than i could manage. and three years earlier.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:36 (twenty years ago)

xpost:
It sounds even better with a posh english accent!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:38 (twenty years ago)

...said with...

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:39 (twenty years ago)

Like, I wasn't talking about a coat of arms or a garden maze or some sh*t.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:39 (twenty years ago)

Garden mazes, now there is something that we can all agree on as being crap, right?

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:41 (twenty years ago)

garden mazes fucking rule, ally. you're out of your head.

― Ian John50n (orion), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:44 (twenty years ago)

GODDAMNIT is there no topic we can all agree on??!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:45 (twenty years ago)

http://www.gardensincornwall.co.uk/glendurgan/images/glengurgan_maze63.jpg

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:46 (twenty years ago)

What about corn mazes?
http://www.spaceimaging.com/gallery/ioweek/archive/04-10-17/fritzler_corn_maze_09_18_04_640.jpg

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:51 (twenty years ago)

Getting so stoned in garden maze you can't find your way out C/D?

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:51 (twenty years ago)

ihttp://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/MMPH/213648.jpg

― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:52 (twenty years ago)

If you look real close at your photo, Spencer, you can see Paul Bunyan passed out in the parking lot from drinking too much whiskey.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:53 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, it's very odd. Here's the caption from spaceimaging.com:

Space Imaging's IKONOS satellite took this image of the patriotic Fritzler Corn Maze near Greeley, Colorado, September 18, 2004.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 2 December 2004 00:56 (twenty years ago)

seven months pass...

REVIVE

― OLD SPICE® CHEMTRAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (ex machina), Friday, 22 July 2005 06:28 (nineteen years ago)

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/8976/image001z1hi.jpg

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/4234/image002x2km.jpg

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 22 July 2005 16:59 (nineteen years ago)

(I have no problem with this, btw.)

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 22 July 2005 16:59 (nineteen years ago)

ihttp://stellargraffiti.com/My%20Pictures/Yzi%20M-M-M-Marilyn.jpg

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 23 July 2005 20:30 (nineteen years ago)

http://stellargraffiti.com/My%20Pictures/Yzi%20M-M-M-Marilyn.jpg

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 23 July 2005 20:31 (nineteen years ago)

NOT FAT

― Tumililingan (ex machina), Saturday, 23 July 2005 21:00 (nineteen years ago)

i know!

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 23 July 2005 21:13 (nineteen years ago)

you might almost say she was...skinny

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 23 July 2005 21:13 (nineteen years ago)

I don't find Marilyn Monroe appealing post-bleached blonde hair. I think the ass-lady-on-motorcycle is more appealing, actually!

― Kitten, the body needs it, the body cries out for Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Ma, Saturday, 23 July 2005 21:17 (nineteen years ago)

For that, you must die.

― Jimmy Mod Is Sick of Being The Best At Everything (ModJ), Saturday, 23 July 2005 21:27 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.pinup-art.de/grafik/bilder/models/normajeanbaker.jpg

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 23 July 2005 21:27 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, those pictures are not what I think of when I hear "fat" and "white." I think of rest stops and Wal-marts in rural America that I go to and want to cry for the health of the people around me that just look really sick. I have a problem with that. This has nothing to do with the thread except that the white people seem to have a problem with "fat" but this is just America. I have VERY rarely seen anyone that would fit this definition of "fat" outside of the US. But I haven't been to England in over ten years, so I don't know if it applies.

― richardk (Richard K), Sunday, 24 July 2005 01:34 (nineteen years ago)

Now it occurs to me that the fashion industry trend of insanely thin women might be some kind of perverse reaction this..except it's just as disgusting. Whatever happened to middle ground!?

― richardk (Richard K), Sunday, 24 July 2005 01:37 (nineteen years ago)

I have VERY rarely seen anyone that would fit this definition of "fat" outside of the US. But I haven't been to England in over ten years, so I don't know if it applies.

England is having the government censor junk food ads that might appeal to children or go on during their programming. I've read that they're just as bad but of course it's all bunk as BMI is a horrible way to judge fatness.

― Cunga (Cunga), Sunday, 24 July 2005 03:09 (nineteen years ago)

*I would like to preemptively ask the moderators to NOT delete this thread or move it to another board.* I think what went on here needs to remain as evidence of certain behaviors. I think it helps to explain the ill will that some posters still feel.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 25 July 2005 22:00 (nineteen years ago)

Actually, there are better threads...

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 25 July 2005 22:16 (nineteen years ago)

Do you think Orbit smells like bologna?

― Tumililingan (ex machina), Monday, 25 July 2005 22:21 (nineteen years ago)

three months pass...

I am attracted to fat girls, my girlfriend is fat and so am I (altho she is fatter) and we are both encouraging eachother to get fatter lol as weird as that may seem to some people. The funny thing is we were both trying to lose weight, knowing that both of us wanted the other to gain, so we agreed to both gain, because neither of us minds gaining weight (I mean, who wouldn't want to eat as much as they want without guilt?)

― Brandon, Wednesday, 23 November 2005 07:48 (nineteen years ago)

I really wonder how Brandon found this thread. Do fat people commonly Google for webpages dedicated to discussing fatness? I'm skinny, I don't get this.

― Mickey (modestmickey), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 07:59 (nineteen years ago)

That's so romantic: your gargly-wet snoring won't even keep each other awake!

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 08:03 (nineteen years ago)

romantic but not very healthy?

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 08:11 (nineteen years ago)

I think you'll find that while two wrongs do not make one right, two fat people do actually make one health person (who goes on a bit about her diabetic ex).

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 08:18 (nineteen years ago)

intriguing theory

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 08:20 (nineteen years ago)

Two fat people make about 4 or 5 healthy people by my calculations

― splates (splates), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 08:34 (nineteen years ago)

ah yes, this thread.

― j b everlovin' r (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 08:36 (nineteen years ago)

Brandon, do you realize that this is a very unhealthy way of showing love? How obese are you and how far do you want to tip the scale?

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 09:15 (nineteen years ago)

It's an unhealthy way of showing love, but a great Mary Gaitskill short story idea. (Or Farrelly Bros. movie pitch, one or the other.)

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 09:23 (nineteen years ago)

Brandon this may not be a wise idea. The fatter your girlfriend becomes the more suitors from ILX will try to lure her away from you.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 09:24 (nineteen years ago)

Well, there's fat and there's fat. Are you, like I mean, super fat? Or just totally fat?

― Gary, Wednesday, 23 November 2005 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

is she so fat you have to lift her GUNT to get your cock in?

― mangina, Wednesday, 23 November 2005 15:26 (nineteen years ago)

I mean, how do you KNOW she's fat? Maybe she's just been holding her breath a long time.

― Gary, Wednesday, 23 November 2005 16:08 (nineteen years ago)

mangina, fag.

― scourge of linden ave, Wednesday, 23 November 2005 16:16 (nineteen years ago)

Brandon and his girlfriend, yesterday:

http://www.claudiocaprara.it/archives/Arthur%20Miller%20con%20la%20sua%20fidanzata%20Marilyn%20Monroe%20a%20passeggio.jpg

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 18:17 (nineteen years ago)

She's huuuuuuuuuuge.

― Lars and Jagger (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 18:18 (nineteen years ago)

I can't remember, what's the term for people that try to fatten up their significant other? Feeders? That's one crazy fetish.

― mike h. (mike h.), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 18:34 (nineteen years ago)

five months pass...

[stockmarket spam]

― Stocks, Monday, 1 May 2006 01:54 (nineteen years ago)

i would like to invest in fat girl futures

― electric sound of jim (and why not) (electricsound), Monday, 1 May 2006 02:08 (nineteen years ago)

It is a growth industry!

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 1 May 2006 05:03 (nineteen years ago)

hahahaahah!! shit i shuld of thought up that one!

― animal, Monday, 1 May 2006 05:40 (nineteen years ago)

recalled to fat!!!!!!!

― Mr Jones (Mr Jones), Monday, 1 May 2006 06:28 (nineteen years ago)

one year passes...

Do you think Orbit smells like bologna?

― gershy, Tuesday, 9 October 2007 03:24 (seventeen years ago)

one year passes...

Wow. There are some real gems in here.

― \(^o\) (/o^)/ (ENBB), Wednesday, 8 July 2009 05:05 (fifteen years ago)

I'm always worried that my penis will be too small for a girl that big. Irrational? Maybe.
― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, August 15, 2003 10:08 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark

― \(^o\) (/o^)/ (ENBB), Wednesday, 8 July 2009 05:07 (fifteen years ago)

ENBB is reviving old ILX threads to find the darkest corners of men's souls.

― tbqf fridays (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 8 July 2009 05:08 (fifteen years ago)

I just discovered the random threads button for the first time. These just happen to be the best.

― \(^o\) (/o^)/ (ENBB), Wednesday, 8 July 2009 05:10 (fifteen years ago)

omg this thread

i miss jess

― c.c. crabcock (electricsound), Wednesday, 8 July 2009 05:11 (fifteen years ago)

Answer 2: The question may be more about how big you and she are in body size. I am the same length and I have indeed popped out from time to time, but I think this happens to every one. What we have found is that it is more about how fat we are - if your partner is a fat woman, you may not be able to get your penis into her vagina without a risk of it falling out, and you have to take shorter strokes to keep it in there

http://www.the-penis-website.com/size4.html

― velko, Wednesday, 8 July 2009 05:11 (fifteen years ago)

without a risk of it falling out

oh no! :-(

― \(^o\) (/o^)/ (ENBB), Wednesday, 8 July 2009 05:13 (fifteen years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.