10 Things Every Single Girl Must Own

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1. A fabulous photo of yourself
We all have that photo: The one where your smile, hair, and (let's be honest) bod all come together in one sexy little package, whether it's that snapshot from your hike in the Grand Canyon or that cocktail party photo where you're dressed to kill. Post that sucker at eye level on your fridge so your male guest can't help but notice it as he checks out if you have beer (see item #5). What he says: "Is that you?" What he means: "Daa-aamn, girl, you're hotter than I realized!" Keep a digital version handy so you can email it to online suitors or blind dates who want a glimpse of the goods beforehand. And never, ever throw it away—when you're 80-something it'll serve as an instant reminder that back in the day, you were a total dish!

2. A pretty pair of heels
Admit it. You feel like Maria from West Side Story (You feel pretty, oh so pretty…) when you slip on a pair of nice heels. The good news is that these days, you can transform virtually any outfit to make it on-the-town ready by adding heels to a skirt, jeans, cropped khakis, whatever. And no, they don't have to be towering stilettos, even a pair of 1-inch kitten heels will make you stride a little more confidently. (Added bonus: The taller you are, the more cute men you'll be able to see around the room.)

3. An Eminem CD
What's one of the first places a guy peruses when he walks into a woman's home? Her music collection. Good for you if you have an extensive one. But if all he sees is a stack of girl bands (say, the Indigo Girls, the Go-Go's, Joni Mitchell and the Bridget Jones' Diary soundtrack), he's going to panic. Balance out your collection with one CD, any CD, by Eminem and you have no idea how relieved he'll be. It shows you have an open mind and aren't easily offended—and that's music to any man's ears.

4. A great pickup line... and a way to blow 'em off
In this post-chivalrous period, we can't always depend on guys to initiate contact, so prepare thyself with one simple, non-cheesy icebreaker to lay on that cutie who's making his way to your area of the bar. Our favorite: "Hi. Having fun?" (Though a friend of mine has recently taken to asking well-dressed men, "Hetero, homo or metro?") And in cases when a guy initiates contact and you're not interested, better have a better blow-off than "Ummmm, no... " Our suggestion: "Sorry, I don't think the guy I'm seeing would appreciate it." Sure, it's a lie, but it'll let him down easy—without destroying his ego or making him think you're a jerk.

5. A six-pack of good bottled beer
A prepared single girl is ready to host and toast at any time. If you want to make a guy-guest feel at home and your girlfriends feel special, skip the mass-produced swill and go for microbrews like the exotically-named Smuttynose Shoals Pale Ale from Portsmouth, New Hampshire or the grandfather of microbrews, Sam Adams Boston Lager.

6. Bathroom reading
What man doesn't appreciate finding interesting reading in his sweetie's bathroom? So instead of tossing out your magazines when you're done reading them, toss them into a basket by the toilet. No need to go overboard with a stack of Sports Illustrated (if you don't follow sports, that would just be weird), but consider Newsweek or even Cosmopolitan (hey, this may be the only time he's a captive audience and can learn a few things). Or, just buy a book that's made for the bathroom, like Schott's Original Miscellany by Ben Schott ($10.17 at amazon.com) so he can learn a few things about shoelace lengths and sign language while he passes the, uh, time.

7. A business card
After the age of 18, it's no longer cute to scrawl your first name and phone number on a napkin and hand it to a man who wants to call you. So if your job doesn't provide a card or you'd prefer one with your personal email address and phone number on it, then have some made at your local Kinko's. The very budget-bound can get 250 full-color business cards for free from vistaprint.com if you don't mind the company's logo on the backside of the card. Hey, it's better than nothing. A napkin he can lose. A card he'll file and keep.

8. Earplugs
Ah, there's nothing sweeter than a man who wants to cuddle up with you in bed for a long night's sleep. Unless — SNZZGGHGHRRJJZZZ! — he snores so loudly you can't get any sleep. Prepare thyself for surprise snorers with a pair of earplugs stashed in your nightstand. (2 pairs of Mack's brand self-described "snore-proof" plugs sell for $2.79 at cvs.com.)

9. A straight male friend on your speed-dial
Every girl knows she needs a gay male friend she can go to for fashion advice (a personal Queer Eye for Your Closet). But when it comes to relationship advice, you need another source. While your female friends may have good intentions, if you really want to know if you should call that guy, save the guesswork and go to someone who's been there, done that.

10. A condom
Hey ladies, you know the drill by now. If you want to be able to have spontaneous fun of the bodily kind, you have to prepare for it yourself. You can't always count on him to have something in his back pocket—or a 24-hour drugstore on the route home. (Your new mantra: If you don't want it to break, you buy it.)

She had me some parts, then lost me on others...

What's the ILX single girl list?

Candicissima (candicissima), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 18:44 (twenty years ago)

http://www.hiddenself.com/images/products/wand.jpg

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 18:48 (twenty years ago)

http://www.exclamationsextoystore.com/images/opulent%20superslim%20vibrator.jpg

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

well, my self control has got the best of me, but i still can't help typing:
#1: A COOTCH

Fetchboy (Felcher), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I'd put vibrator way above an Eminem CD and bathroom reading. WTF is wrong with her?

Candicissima (candicissima), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

also, msn's #1 is just stupid. i mean, if a girl wants a nice picture of herself, that's cool, but guys dont really give a shit about that.

Fetchboy (Felcher), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)

http://www.sexwoordenboek.nl/assets/active/buttplug_small.gif

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:09 (twenty years ago)

haha! i just read this. the men's is way worse! it's all about dropping loads of cash to have soft sheets & soft lighting!

kelsey (kelstarry), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:09 (twenty years ago)

kenan, i think i'd actually agree with the plug.

kelsey (kelstarry), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:09 (twenty years ago)

Oh fucking fuck. I really screwed up that code up there.

Anyways, my list:
1. Toys!
2. A pet -- because if you have to constantly deal with the shit of someone furry, at least you can justify it if they have no thumbs of their own
3. Pair of awesome yet totally impractical pair of shoes. (If you're like me, you have about 6 pairs of those.)
4. Official hangout spot
5. Some sort of independence -- well, some money and plan of what to do in case of emergencies, even if its nothing more than call the 'rents and drop a few tears
6. Eclectic group of friends to keep life interesting
7. A sense of security with being single. It's really not the end of the world.
8. A hobby
9. A crush or two -- doesn't hurt
10. Some fucking confidence. You'll only be young and single once. Enjoy the hell out of it.

Candicissima (candicissima), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:12 (twenty years ago)

you can be young and single several times

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)

a way to blow 'em off

Alright!!

would you please stop screaming? (pr00de), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)

If some girl gave me a business card that wasn't a business card, but her home number and personal email that she got printed at Kinko's, I'd think she was either an egomaniac or a hooker.

already disheveled hair projection (wetmink), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:28 (twenty years ago)

What an idiotic list (MSN's, that is). I hope you don't drop 5 as soon as you have a boyfriend, Candicissima!

Cathy (Cathy), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:30 (twenty years ago)

Haha...that's actually why I dropped the bf way back when! I was a little too independent and he was crowding me/taking up too much brain space.

Candicissima (candicissima), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:32 (twenty years ago)

xxpost: no kidding, add a cellphone to that list.

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:34 (twenty years ago)

Why does the list focus exclusively on IMPRESSING GUYS?

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)

OK, not exclusively, but like half of it is.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:38 (twenty years ago)

has anyone read the list for guys yet?

kelsey (kelstarry), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

haha! i just read this. the men's is way worse! it's all about dropping loads of cash to have soft sheets & soft lighting!

link? i can't find it.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

i don't know how to link since it's via my hotmail account . . . but here's a cut & paste.

1. A top-notch coffee/espresso maker
Any girl who’s at your place for dinner (or lounging in your bed come morning) deserves a classier send-off than “see ya,” so trade in your college-days $20 coffee maker for a machine that’ll give Starbucks a run for its money. The professional-quality Delonghi “Caffe Figaro” Coffee/Espresso Machine ($230, macys.com) uses steam pressure to brew a superior espresso; the built-in milk frother allows her to request a latte or cappuccino. Toss in a $20 electric grinder — fresh grounds are a must for a quality caffeine fix — and you'll make her feel like a princess without breaking out the whole breakfast-in-bed shtick.

2. A lamp in your bedroom
Raise your hand if the only source of light in your bedroom is that garish overhead fixture that was there when you first moved in. Now, all of you, go out and buy a bedside lamp with a fabric shade. This inexpensive trifle is not lost on women, who not only see it as a sign of your civility (imagine that, a light switch within arm’s reach vs. across the room!), she’ll also feel much more comfortable under its softer, more forgiving glow. (Ikea.com has a large selection in the $10 to $40 range that should satisfy any man’s tastes without siphoning his savings.)

3. Swiffer Sweeper + Swiffer Cloths + Swiffer Wet Cloths
For her, walking across your floor barefoot should not be an exercise in muck tolerance. To that end, the Swiffer is the greatest thing to happen to the lazy man since the remote control. As simple as this cloth-on-a-stick looks, the electrostatically charged sheets suck up dust, hair and dirt in no time, and the Wet Cloths will make quick work of your bathroom floor—a necessity if you ever want her to visit again.

4. A comfortable couch
Repeat after me: You do not need a black leather couch. Skip the cliché and pick out a plush upholstered sofa, like the simple, elegant, under $1,000 Mercer at Roomandboard.com. And no matter what style you buy, play it safe and pick a neutral or muted color, then purchase a couple of pillows with stripes or a bold, masculine pattern to jazz it up and prove you aren’t your average lug when it comes to home décor.

5. Nice underwear
When it comes to your love life, the last thing you want is for your underwear to be a mood-killer, and trust me, the following selections will make her recoil: Tighty whities; underwear featuring cartoon characters, or anything that resembles what a woman would wear. (Bikini briefs? Heaven help you.) Even silk boxers, no matter how nice, can send a sleazy vibe, so stick with something basic, like Calvin Klein cotton boxers or boxer briefs. Splurge on at least two weeks' worth and throw out the others, lest you’re tempted to don a ratty pair and put off doing laundry—you never know when opportunity will strike.

6. A key-ring that can fix, cut, and open anything
Sure, your power-tool collection is outstanding—but it'll do you no good sitting in your closet when your date's sunglasses come apart at the restaurant. Show off how useful you can be by whipping out the tiny-but-powerful Leatherman Micra key-ring (leatherman.com). The two-and-a-half-inch, 1.75-ounce stainless-steel multi-tool combines scissors, tweezers, nail file, ruler, bottle opener, three screwdrivers, and a blade (of course). You’ll be amazed how indispensable it (and you, by extension) will become to her.

7. $150+ jeans
Why cough up that much dough when you can find a seemingly-fine pair for much less? Because designer denim does make a difference—and you can wear them everywhere from a dive bar to a five-star restaurant, if paired with the right shirt and suit jacket. Check out stores that carry Diesel, Evisu, Paper Denim & Cloth, or Seven. Since every pair of jeans fits differently, you will need to try a few on: Err on the side of too tight as opposed to too baggy, as jeans do stretch a bit as they are broken in. Choose a pair that isn't too trendy (warning signs include more than five pockets, garish stitching, and too much "distress," like rips or bleaching) unless you're willing to buy into next season's style as well.

8. $200+ dress shoes
Accept it: Girls are into footwear, and your feet will be one of the first things she looks at. Invest in quality black leather tie-ups — which will never go out of fashion and will match with most any jeans, pants or suit — to make a great first impression every time. If she knows her shoes, she'll be hoping to find you could afford a pair of Bruno Magli, Kenneth Cole, Steve Madden, or John Varvatos. Sure, they’re not cheap, but hey, it could be worse: We could be the ones in heels.

9. 300-thread-count cotton sheets
Let’s face it: You (and hopefully your date) will be spending a lot of quality time here. So skip the scratchy polyester blends and splurge on some 100-percent Egyptian cotton sheets with a thread count of 300—the higher the thread count, the softer the sheet. It’ll run you around $120 for a queen-size set (for a good selection, check out bedbathandbeyond.com), but anything that might keep her in bed longer is worth the expense, right?

10. The Joy of Cooking
Few things are sexier than a guy who can cook... but if toasting Pop-Tarts is the extent of your expertise? Then get Joy, the bible of all cookbooks since, unlike its trendier, more specialized alternatives like Nigella Lawson or Rocco DiSpirito, it contains recipes for just about anything you could think to make, all laid out with instructions that even an alien from another planet could figure out. So go ahead, invite her over for something simple (vegetarian chili, for instance) or exotic (Chicken Kiev, anyone?) and learn that the way to a woman’s heart is through her stomach, too.

kelsey (kelstarry), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:40 (twenty years ago)

The man's list is equally stupid, but redeems itself by twice using the phrase "splurge on", once for underwear and once for sheets! Heehee. http://msn.match.com/msn/article.aspx?articleid=4319&menuid=6

Also, it is really pricey! I don't think I could afford to be a single man.

Cathy (Cathy), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:41 (twenty years ago)

Oh, x-post!

Cathy (Cathy), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:42 (twenty years ago)

The Swiffer is the worst invention of the last five years. Get one mop.

The Original Jimmy Mod: A Negro (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

at least you knew how to do the linky thing!

kelsey (kelstarry), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

What's so impressive or notable about an Eminem record? Who the hell would see that and think someone is cool?

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:45 (twenty years ago)

What's Gareth doing in that article on things men must have?

Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:45 (twenty years ago)

The swiffer is fine as long as you also mop regularly. Sometimes you don't need grime removal, just cat hair control.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:45 (twenty years ago)

And what if you hate coffee, like a lot? Fuck off, listmaker!

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:46 (twenty years ago)

It shows you have an open mind and aren't easily offended—and that's music to any man's ears.

Answer your question? Also an option -- taking him in the ass.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:47 (twenty years ago)

"This inexpensive trifle is not lost on women, who not only see it as a sign of your civility..."

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:48 (twenty years ago)

"Accept it: Girls are into footwear"

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)

i just hate the assumption that to nab a woman, you need all these fancy & spendy things. like $200 shoes. i'd wonder what planet a guy lived on if he spent that much on shoes. or $150 on jeans, while i'm on the topic.

kelsey (kelstarry), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)

We have an espresso maker, but don't know how to use it!

Anyway, yeah, the guy's list is totally Queer Eye. They forgot to mention hair product, though!

Kittens Licking Cakes (coco), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:50 (twenty years ago)

If some girl gave me a business card that wasn't a business card, but her home number and personal email that she got printed at Kinko's, I'd think she was either an egomaniac or a hooker.

seriously. that is such a cheesy thing to do. it would make it easier to discern which girls are so blank that they follow the guidelines laid out in these sort of lists though.

oops (Oops), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:50 (twenty years ago)

I really hate articles like this. I mean, I like Queer Eye just as much as anyone, but my general feeling is that if a woman actually cares about stuff like how expensive my shoes are and how many threads are in my sheets, then I don't know that we'd even get along.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:52 (twenty years ago)

also, underwear cant kill the mood. when the pants come off, the underwear goes right with it. slips out under the radar. (???)

Fetchboy (Felcher), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

10 things every single guy must own, by Nick:
1. Some furniture. Like a chair or something. Sometimes you can find them in the alley. GO FOR IT DUDE.
2. Refrigerator. DUDE YOUR BEER'S GETTING WARM DUDE.
3. Playboy subscription. You aren't living with your parents anymore, dude, you can do ANYTHING. YOU. WANT. Go nuts, have fun!
4. Humidor. Chicks dig that shit, dawg.
5. Silk boxers. CLASSY.
6. One of those vacuum cleaner robots. FUCK A DYSON, BRO.
7. Bob Marley poster. ONE LOVE. HE WAS A BUFFALO SOLDIER.
8. A bunch of overpriced and useless gadgets to compensate for your poorly-veiled physical and emotional insecurities. SHARPER IMAGE DAWG.
9. Air freshener.
10. Fleshlight.

n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:55 (twenty years ago)

realistic single man's (wanting a chick) list:
1. $100 cash in wallet at all times
2. credit card
3. $20 worth of cocaine
4. well-stocked medicine cabinet
5. extra roll of toilet paper
6. no roomates
7. cellphone
8. bicycle
9. breakfast makings, water in fridge
10. open taste in music

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:55 (twenty years ago)

That list is pretty good except for the cocaine bit and that bicycles aren't particularly urgent and key.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

depends on where you live, I guess.

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:00 (twenty years ago)

That business card thing is really perplexing.

A napkin he can lose. A card he'll file and keep.

Um, in a stack in his wallet with realtor and plumber cards or whatever?

Seriously, get one He's Just Not THat Into You.

No, it depends on whether or not you do cocaine, or would be into someone who does cocaine!

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

The condom is the most important thing. Because if you don't put out... etc...

The Original Jimmy Mod: A Negro (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:04 (twenty years ago)

xpost: i meant the bicycle. I've never met a girl who doesn't like cocaine.

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

From my point of view, the men's list is a fucking exercise in product placement, but on the flip side it would be nice to see that A. Guy actually had a preference w/r/t one or two personal items such as linens or knowing his way around the kitchen because this would indicate that he spared two seconds to think about his quality of life. Like, in a post-college time-to-get-out-of-the-frathouse way. OTOH, if he merely followed all the instructions above it would be equally mindless and therefore dud (as would the women's list).

Women's list equally stupid for different reasons already discussed above. As far as I'm concerened, Kenan has provided the only truly urgent & key answer.

Laurel, Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

NB: I am nearing 30 so my expectations may be a little different. I'm sure neither of my younger brothers give a shit about their bed sheets but then I am not dating in their age range.

Laurel, Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

I don't really care about my quality of life. :(

All that stuff just seems so unnecessary.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

Most products do.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

A key-ring that can fix, cut, and open anything

ok, i agree with this one. always have a bottle opener, a pair of ear plugs, a cutting tool, and a source of flame on you at all times. Just in case.

DUDE YOUR BEER'S GETTING WARM DUDE.

haw.

kingfish completely hatstand (Kingfish), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

Jay, surely there's something you DO care about?

I dunno, speaking for myself I have the (possibly very bad) habit of extrapolating things about someone (read: the boy in question) from any information I can get my grubby little hands on. That is, if he is particular about his bike/wok/records/books/amps/grooming products/photography/what the fuck ever and there is evidence of such particularlity in his apartment, I will be imeejitly charmed and ascribe to him all kinds of complimentary motives/talents/characteristics.

Of course, I am single these days, so YMMV.

Laurel, Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

I am going to clip and save exyDancer's list, and make it my new goal to have all these things. Then I'm going to have a cold beer. That's right, ladiez, I refrigerate.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

I've never met a girl who doesn't like cocaine.

Wow, that's awful.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

Are you Bill Maher, by any chance?

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

xpost - Most products are unnecessary. In fact, most women I know find an excess of consumer products to be repellent. Any guy who would spend more than $50 on a pair of pants is not prudent with his cash flow, in my opinion. Although having toilet paper is important...hehehe.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

Nice sheets are worth it even if you're not getting laid/worried about getting laid soon.

The rest of the men's list is awful. $200 dress shoes? I don't even own a suit (or jacket) for god's sake.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:24 (twenty years ago)

I forgot to say that when you read my list, you should note that the last time I was single, I was 19.

n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:24 (twenty years ago)

I've never met a girl who doesn't like cocaine.

What a horrible thing to say.

Cathy (Cathy), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:27 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I second that. What Port City are you from anyway?

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:27 (twenty years ago)

and you didn't add "fake ID" to score with the older ladies?

kelsey (kelstarry), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:27 (twenty years ago)

Here's what I want in a man or woman's apartment / on their person:

1. books. music. at least enough to show they're interested. or a well-used library card.
2. smell nice. soap.
3. tv not central to their space. no movie posters.
4. vegetables in fridge. or fruit around (this ain't a sex trhing)
5. some semblance of family pictures / friends / a past
6. a suit / dress. *not* jeans with men's leather shoes / women's heels.
7. know their doorman's name / smile at him
8. nice bed.
9. no fridge magnets / joke toys / (or at least, not too much ironic kitsch)
10. alcohol of some kind ready.

paulhw (paulhw), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:28 (twenty years ago)

DIDN'T NEED ONE, DAWG.

n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:29 (twenty years ago)

xypost: well, notice I said $20 and not $80. A little piracy in the night and excuse to go the bathroom together, but not cracked-out at sunrise with useless equipment. It's a natsy world, and I suggest all move on past the dating phase towards humanity.

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:30 (twenty years ago)

No, I think your world is nasty.

Cathy (Cathy), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:30 (twenty years ago)

#1 thing a single guy needs is a good collection of beer mirrors, that gets the ladies begging for more

Homosexual II (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:30 (twenty years ago)

xpost: you are correct.

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:31 (twenty years ago)

Kenan's list of ten things all single men who want to get laid must have (note: Kenan does not necessarily have all of these things himself):

1) A couch and a TV. For entertaining and later smooching.
2) Some vegetables in the fridge. Seriously, dude, eat some fruit. What, do you still need your mother to tell you how to eat?
3) The ability to buy her dinner at the drop of a hat. Doesn't have to be too expensive, just dinner. Maybe you can order nachos while you watch TV and sit on the couch.
4) Condoms
5) Vodka in the freezer, and something to mix it with.
6) Something to talk about other than yourself.
7) Soft toilet paper. I don't like it too soft myself, and never lotioned 'cause it's like rubbing butter in your ass, but I may have to rethink this soon.
8) The ability to refrain from using phrases like "rubbing butter in your ass." At least not in that context.
9) Extra pillows. Does she like one, two, or even three pillows? YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!
10) Well-trimmed fingernails.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:36 (twenty years ago)

That was a big xpost, but I'm glad to see that vegetables are agreed upon.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:37 (twenty years ago)

joke toys

note that i'm geeky enough to NOT be interested in somebody if they don't have something jokey around. I mean, weird japanese shit, plastic cats or fat bees, sparkzillas, the crow from MAAKIES, anything but just have something fun. toys are necessary.

Movie posters are ok, depending on the movie. If the movie is "You've Got Mail," then We've Got Problems.

kingfish completely hatstand (Kingfish), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:38 (twenty years ago)

xxpost: sure you don't want to reverse 8? It would go really well with 10.

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:40 (twenty years ago)

and: Is there any female thread that ILX cannot turn into a male thread?

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:41 (twenty years ago)

haha yeah, I know.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

Soft toilet paper. I don't like it too soft myself, and never lotioned 'cause it's like rubbing butter in your ass, but I may have to rethink this soon.

Did you ever rethink your wiping technique, too?

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:45 (twenty years ago)

Apparently not.

I am strange because I would never think to look in some guy's fridge or medicine cabinent to check how it's stocked? That's really never crossed my mind.

Candicissima (candicissima), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:46 (twenty years ago)

Damn, that was an xpost

Candicissima (candicissima), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:46 (twenty years ago)

Someone do a search for threads about periods to see if turned into a discussion of penile bleeding.

n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:47 (twenty years ago)

(Because I'm sure not going to.)

n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:47 (twenty years ago)

First ass wiping, now penile bleeding. This thread has gotten more than just "male."

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:49 (twenty years ago)

It probably ended up a collection of "getting your red wings" horror stories or whatever.

Candicissima (candicissima), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:51 (twenty years ago)

it's a initiation rite into a strange, new tribe.
the fridge/medicine combo is not really for perusing, but more for practical matters the day after a hot date.

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:51 (twenty years ago)

Dan's story about the truck seat incident to thread. (xpost)

jocelyn (Jocelyn), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:52 (twenty years ago)

xxpost Or "getting your red wings" turned into a discussion about buying a Red Wings jersey.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:53 (twenty years ago)

the fridge/medicine combo is not really for perusing, but more for practical matters the day after a hot date.

But I still don't understand the medicine cabinet thing. Do a lot of dates end in having to administer first aid?

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:54 (twenty years ago)

only the good ones

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:56 (twenty years ago)

I try not to let my dates get so fucked up they fall down stairs. That's just me.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 20:57 (twenty years ago)

Let's talk about heels. That's the only thing on that list that I agree with.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:00 (twenty years ago)

(coincides with first aid and falling down stairs)

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:00 (twenty years ago)

I'm jus kidding: it's really only about advil.

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:02 (twenty years ago)

I don't have a problem with heels being on that list, because it seems to be more about self-empowerment or whatever. I don't know that I really like heels on women, myself. But then again, I wouldn't.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:02 (twenty years ago)

But I still don't understand the medicine cabinet thing. Do a lot of dates end in having to administer first aid?

Yeah, or do we need to stock it with Vagisil or something? Summer Breeze?

already disheveled hair projection (wetmink), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:03 (twenty years ago)

Yeah I was all about the heels one. I've literally got too many in my closet that are really cool looking but I'll be crying after trying to walk around all day like I do in my sneaks. But, they're so...hot. If loving stilettos is wrong, I don't want to be right. I just like the way they look on me.

Candicissima (candicissima), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:05 (twenty years ago)

I like heels too. I like the ones with the feminine, slender curved heel. Some dresses require heels. I'm prepared.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:06 (twenty years ago)

What's so impressive or notable about an Eminem record? Who the hell would see that and think someone is cool?

I guess that's what she figures every testosterone loaded man-ape is guaranteed to enjoy. Maybe AC/DC or something might be a better choice?

Thermo Man-Ape (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:07 (twenty years ago)

I don't have anything on the list except bathroom reading. I wonder if any boys will fall in love with me when they see my soggy copy of The Economist.

I can't wear heels anymore, I get agonising pains in my legs the next day. I do miss having the option.

Cathy (Cathy), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

if i saw vagisil in a man's medicine cabinet, not only would i be perplexed, but i'd assume he knows NOTHING about feminine hygiene.

kelsey (kelstarry), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

i've always been impressed if a guy owns lube.

kelsey (kelstarry), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

xypost:
It shows you have an open mind and aren't easily offended—and that's music to any man's ears.
It's not a cd for listening, it just signifies this: I appreciate you, lout.

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

Missing essential: Cordless drill

lyra (lyra), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:11 (twenty years ago)

Really - if I'm back at anygirls place who's been around me for more than 15 minutes the fact that she's not easily offended has already been well established.

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:14 (twenty years ago)

i dont have a single pair of high heels. is this wrong?

Homosexual II (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:15 (twenty years ago)

heh, thermo.

i shouldn't think so, mandee.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:18 (twenty years ago)

heels are hot tho.

deej.., Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:21 (twenty years ago)

7. know their doorman's name / smile at him

Doorman! I don't know anyone rich enough to have a doorman...

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:21 (twenty years ago)

heels with jeans = too disgusting.

paulhw (paulhw), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:24 (twenty years ago)

This list advocates heels with cropped khakis! That is enough to discredit it in itself.

Cathy (Cathy), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:27 (twenty years ago)

but my feet like comfort

also i look dorky in skirts/dresses

Homosexual II (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:27 (twenty years ago)

Oh man - I was worried I'd have to get a doorman for my basement 1 bedroom flat!

xpost

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

No way! paul off the money. Heels always sexy. on women.

deej.., Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:29 (twenty years ago)

Definitely with jeans.

deej.., Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:30 (twenty years ago)

deej is crazy! in nyc, it's strictly a secretary dressing up for boozing look. hmm, that's 1. a bit snobby, and 2. gonna invite roooars from gusy who like the above.

paulhw (paulhw), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:37 (twenty years ago)

depends if she wears them ALL THE TIME... it's like, chill out and be casual once in a while, you're harshing my buzz.

already disheveled hair projection (wetmink), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:38 (twenty years ago)

depends if she wears them ALL THE TIME

If the wears them all the time she is probably hott.

The Original Jimmy Mod: A Negro (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:53 (twenty years ago)

...and you should hit that shit.

The Original Jimmy Mod: A Negro (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:53 (twenty years ago)

heels and jeans is rarely a good look. It strikes me as a 'Fergie' (BEPs) thing.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 22:13 (twenty years ago)

After the age of 18, it's no longer cute to scrawl your first name and phone number on a napkin and hand it to a man who wants to call you.

No. I still have the crumpled sticky of a particular girl I asked out and had a crush on. It is fine. >_>

Cunga (Cunga), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 22:39 (twenty years ago)

I think you should all reserve a little bit of room for jeans w/ heels possibilities. It's a favorite look of mine (although not in this weather obv) and it can be VERY not-secretary although it does have the potential to turn fashion fucker/art studenty if not carefully applied.

Laurel, Wednesday, 10 August 2005 23:18 (twenty years ago)

I hate heels. Cant walk in them, dont see the point of them. But then all my shoes are boots/maryjanes/sneakers.

Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 23:55 (twenty years ago)

heels are sexy but it's not like they make the unsexy sexy, or without them one can't be sexy. in conclusion, these lists are totally lameoid.

oops (Oops), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 23:59 (twenty years ago)

Trayce's essential top 10 for the single female who tends to hang around geekbois and wants to snag one (in no particular order btw):

1) A TV, and at least one kind of console. Your world begins here. Movies, tv shows or Zelda Windwaker - its all good.
2) at least one full compliment of box sets of some TV series or other. Be it Futurama, CSI, Babylon 5 or whatever, you can settle down for entire weekends of escapisim. All geeks like this.
3) At least one laptop PC. DO I even need to explain this?
4) DSL. (likewise!)
5) A very good takeaway place or three's number to hand. I'm not talking 3am trash pizza, I'm talking the brilliant Thai place nearby, or that Italian place that does delish veal and pastas.
6) Caffiene/sugar laden products. Coffee, tea, Coke, Red Bull, etc. Lots of it. You gonna need it (ref #1 and 2 on list).
7) Reading material in bathroom. Programming books, copies of PC Authority and PC Gamer magazine, maybe the cheat manual from a game or something.
8) A digital camera. Use yr imagination ;)
9) CONDOMS. No matter what kind of list ever gets writ, this is so important.
10) a pet. Guys be lovin to chat up kitty and go "aww cute".

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 August 2005 00:03 (twenty years ago)

I love how #'s 1-8 have nothing in the slightest to do with # 9!

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 11 August 2005 03:29 (twenty years ago)

orbit essential 10 for the single gal

1. A cute guy friend you have no sexual interest in for escorts, advice, getting stoned etc.

2. TV/VCR/DVD with a good selection of boxsets for the all impt escapism

3. A Mac and DSL

4. A very nice dildo (thanks ex-tenant porn reviewer!!!)

5. A decent at-home wine selection

6. Acyrilics and canvas

7. Guitars, bass, and drums

8. TiVo

9. Turner Classic Movies

10. Air conditioning

Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, 11 August 2005 03:36 (twenty years ago)

am i the only person who has no interest in reading on the dunny?

jimmy glass (electricsound), Thursday, 11 August 2005 03:37 (twenty years ago)

i have everything on trayce's list except the console (can a digi002 substitute?) and the stack of periodicals in the john

jimmy glass (electricsound), Thursday, 11 August 2005 03:38 (twenty years ago)

TEN THINGS EVERY SINGLE GIRL MUST NOT OWN

10. MORE THAN TWO CATS
09. A DORM REFRIDGERATOR
98. BUTTERSCOTCH SCENTED CANDLES
07. NAGEL POSTER
06. CONFEDERATE FLAG
05. RUSH BOX SET
04. PICTURES OF YOUR EX-BOYFRIEND(S) ON [DORM] REFRIDGERATOR
03. GUN (UNLESS IT'S AUTOMATIC)
02. PAPER WALLS
01. MACE

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 11 August 2005 04:04 (twenty years ago)

my last gf had #10. (she had three.)

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 04:05 (twenty years ago)

three kitties!!!

jimmy glass (electricsound), Thursday, 11 August 2005 04:07 (twenty years ago)

i played favorites.

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 04:10 (twenty years ago)

I love how #'s 1-8 have nothing in the slightest to do with # 9!

...they could do! You could uh, shag while watching Firefly. Or um, watch net porn together. Or uhh err...oh dear.

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 August 2005 04:37 (twenty years ago)

But how would you get someone over there in the 1st place, I ask you???
Good luck without high heels, beer and Eminem!

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 11 August 2005 05:15 (twenty years ago)

Hahah :D You're just jealous, you are ;P

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 August 2005 05:16 (twenty years ago)

Urgh! You've seen right through me!

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 11 August 2005 05:23 (twenty years ago)

Hey, you sound sarcastic now *sulk* ;)

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 August 2005 05:24 (twenty years ago)

God, I have only one item on that original list. The condoms. (Not like they ever get used, still sitting around from the last boyfriend six months ago. I should chuck them out or something.)

Does that make me a failure as a single girl?

Alce Tea-Skirt (kate), Thursday, 11 August 2005 07:12 (twenty years ago)

I have a lamp!

jel -- (jel), Thursday, 11 August 2005 07:14 (twenty years ago)

xpost: if you are a failure it's you and me both. i do have an actual work related business card but i think i'd rather die than i hand it to a potential date. and i do have some condoms (potentially past their expiry and also lots of very cool shoes but they're not stilettos.

gem (trisk), Thursday, 11 August 2005 07:15 (twenty years ago)

Spending 3 figure sums on clothes just does not compute.

jel -- (jel), Thursday, 11 August 2005 07:18 (twenty years ago)

ok now to be fair i would usually spend 3 figure sums on clothing (though that's aussie dollars). maybe it's more pricey here but how could you not? especially work clothes like suits and whathaveyou?

gem (trisk), Thursday, 11 August 2005 07:25 (twenty years ago)

I mean, apart from the condoms, there's not much on that list that I even *would* want. A six-pack of bottled beer? I don't *like* bottled beer! I like beer in cans with widgets to promote the proper amount of head. And bathroom reading? I'd like to have this (I used to keep my trashy rock bios in the loo) but my housemate's wife would probably tidy it away or throw it out or something. Sigh.

Alce Tea-Skirt (kate), Thursday, 11 August 2005 07:28 (twenty years ago)

i would only drink any beer in my fridge. and i hate eminem. also i really think that if i brought a guy home and he was impressed by an eminem cd out of the several hundred really cool (in my opinion) cds that i own, we would not share music taste in common. at all.

gem (trisk), Thursday, 11 August 2005 07:34 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I'm with you on that. Eminem? Fuck right off. If he's not impressed by the sheer volume of dronerock and psychedelia, he doesn't deserve to be in my bedroom anyway.

Alce Tea-Skirt (kate), Thursday, 11 August 2005 07:35 (twenty years ago)

Oh Kate, she throws it away? WTF! I could never survive on the toilet with some magazines. :-)

nathalie sans denouement (stevie nixed), Thursday, 11 August 2005 07:36 (twenty years ago)

Hang on, yr housemates wife cleans up.. does she live there too? If not wtf is the arrangement? Sounds a bit odd! =)

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 August 2005 08:27 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, I went into this a bit on another thread. My housemate has just got married, and his wife has just moved in. She, understandably, is nesting, and putting her mark on her new home and all that. However, unfortunately, this often involves tidying/moving/throwing away *my* stuff. :-(

Alce Tea-Skirt (kate), Thursday, 11 August 2005 08:29 (twenty years ago)

god i'd hate to live with a couple i think. also i wouldn't like any housemate to throw away my stuff, nesting or otherwise.

gem (trisk), Thursday, 11 August 2005 08:32 (twenty years ago)

(To avoid derailing, my bitching about my housemates is here:

Living on Your Own vs Living with Other People )

Alce Tea-Skirt (kate), Thursday, 11 August 2005 08:37 (twenty years ago)

4. A comfortable couch
Repeat after me: You do not need a black leather couch. Skip the cliché and pick out a plush upholstered sofa, like the simple, elegant, under $1,000 Mercer at Gearsroommate.com. And no matter what style you buy, play it safe and pick a neutral or muted color, then purchase a couple of pillows with stripes or a bold, masculine pattern to jazz it up and prove you aren’t your average lug when it comes to home décor.

ken c (ken c), Thursday, 11 August 2005 08:37 (twenty years ago)

7. A business card
After the age of 18, it's no longer cute to scrawl your first name and phone number on a napkin and hand it to a man who wants to call you.

This is all insanity, but especially this entry.

Anna (Anna), Thursday, 11 August 2005 08:42 (twenty years ago)

i know! imagine the guy holding out a bit of paper and pen or whatever and saying 'can i get your phone number' and you saying 'oh hang on, i'll give you one of these cards i got made up for just such an occasion'! not to mention redundant in the age of the mobile phone.

gem (trisk), Thursday, 11 August 2005 08:43 (twenty years ago)

actually the thing i was expecting when i opened the thread was a list of things like a power drill, plunger, the ability to change a washer and other practical stuff that is not traditionally girly (and that i had to buy/learn for myself after my last live in relationship broke up). so i guess my perception of what a single girl 'needs' is different to msn!

gem (trisk), Thursday, 11 August 2005 08:51 (twenty years ago)

Gem OTMFM!

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 August 2005 09:34 (twenty years ago)

have MSN not heard of mobile phones?

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 09:37 (twenty years ago)

Yeah I was thinking that - I mean business cards just scream "I am a creepy corporate sociopath with no life outside work". Doesnt everyone who has a mobile just do the whole "lets swap numbers omg" thing, or try some daft "hay I haff bluetooth check this out I'll beam you my number" gag at the pub?

Or do I just really hang around with nowt but nerds? :(

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 August 2005 09:41 (twenty years ago)

No Trayce - everyone does that. MSM don't have the faintest. If anyone ever gave me a personalised business card I would look at them with gentle pity.

Anna (Anna), Thursday, 11 August 2005 09:43 (twenty years ago)

I think I'd do that if they even gave me an actual business card, heh. And I have some myself... not that I wanted them (and they bloody spelt my name wrong).

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 August 2005 09:52 (twenty years ago)

"Spanker, Ms. Spam - IT consultant and online mongrel wag"

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 August 2005 09:52 (twenty years ago)

I do need to get some Business Cards though.

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 09:54 (twenty years ago)

I'd never use a business card to pick up a date, even if I had one! (A business card, that is, not a date.) I think it's Very Bad Form.

In fact, I've only ever once been given a business card by a date/pick-up. And this turned out to be a bad sign anyway.

Alce Tea-Skirt (kate), Thursday, 11 August 2005 09:56 (twenty years ago)

I am a single girl! Here are some things I own:

1/ Too many books with a growing emphasis on DR WHO NOVELS
2/ A large quantitity of Pokémon toys
3/ ZTTIQ6 (my favourite track is the one where Paul Morley is talking about a spanner being intrinsically more interesting than the lead singer of Tears For Fears, although I suppose Anne Pigalle is good too, oh, it's all good really)
4/ Dinosaur cookie cutters x 3 (diplodocus, stegosaurus and triceratops)
5/ A basket full of various types of YARN and my 'sampler' piecer where I am just trying out all the patterns in the Readers Digest Book for the hell of it cos fvck knows what else to do with the nice hand-dyed but sooo sooo scratchy yarn that my friend gave me
6/ A broken pair of red shoes that I love, another pair of red shoes with a BOW on that are now slightly messy from tramping around drunkenly in the snow - remember the SNOW kids?!
7/ Bathroom reading in the form of a leaflet for Spice Republic in Dulwich
8/ Ecover cleaning products
9/ Broccoli in a jar
10/ Inherent temporal paradox RENDERING ME NON-EXISTENT BEFORE I EVEN EXISTED AAAAAH (point 1 can be blamed for this).

xpost: I totally have business cards! Mine RULE!

Lucretia My Reflection (Lucretia My Reflection), Thursday, 11 August 2005 10:06 (twenty years ago)

I have hunners of pairs of pretty heels and three condoms.

Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 11 August 2005 10:28 (twenty years ago)

Hmm. I have a comb.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 August 2005 10:29 (twenty years ago)

I have several pairs of heels, a couple of condoms that i have to check from time to time to see if they've expired such is the length of the drought.

leigh (leigh), Thursday, 11 August 2005 10:50 (twenty years ago)

Hmm. I have a comb.

Then what can I get you for Christmas?

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 10:52 (twenty years ago)

SOme heels? :D

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 August 2005 11:00 (twenty years ago)

Maybe I should just throw out the condoms. They're a rubbish brand anyway, and just a reminder of failure.

Alce Tea-Skirt (kate), Thursday, 11 August 2005 11:01 (twenty years ago)

SOme heels? :D

I would look dashing in them. Thanks stevem!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 August 2005 11:02 (twenty years ago)

Definitely throw them out if they're past the best-before-date.

I don't have any condoms at all, as far as I know. Then again, I am unlikely ever to have sex.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 11 August 2005 11:05 (twenty years ago)

Don't throw them out if they're not past their date though. It's better to have a rubbish brand for use in emergencies than none at all.

Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 11 August 2005 11:17 (twenty years ago)

What are these "emergencies" of which you speak?

(Actually, I'm secretly kind of hoping that as soon as I throw them out, pointy-nosed ginger boys will throw themselves at me, begging me to copulate with them. But of course, now I've said this, I will have jinxed myself.)

((I should actually check what the expiration date is anyway.))

Alce Tea-Skirt (kate), Thursday, 11 August 2005 11:21 (twenty years ago)

Starry, based on that list I'd definitely fall for you.

If I'd ever hook up with a girl who wears high heels, hands me a business card, has a model photo of herself on the fridge and an Eminem CD on her shelf, I'd run. Fast and far. Then again, the only thing I possess on the guy list is number 10 (I guess my "O'Henry" and "Black Horse" brief briefs don't count as "nice underwear"), so I guess I'm not A REAL MAN.

What I think a girl might have to get me interested: shoes that actually look comfortable, a photo of her having fun with her friends, a Roberta Flack or a Missy Elliott CD on the shelf, a bit of a sloppy apartment so she doesn't seem uptight, funny fundamentalist Christian flyers and Jack T. Chick tracts for toilet reading.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 11:23 (twenty years ago)

I love how all these lists for women suggest getting a straight male friend that they have no interest in, but never care to suggest that the person in question NOT have a longstanding crush on her.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Thursday, 11 August 2005 11:27 (twenty years ago)

Haha! Chick tracts for loo reading! I like that idea. Hmm!

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 August 2005 11:28 (twenty years ago)

When I first moved on my own, I lived with a female friend, and Jack T. Chick flyers were the first thing she put in our loo. Also old MAD Magazines.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 11:32 (twenty years ago)

I had no idea heels with jeans were so bad and hated around here. I do this all the time, but I think it really depends on the heel. I stick to retro round toe and it deters the sleaze factor. I also thought this list would be things like having both a flat and Philips head screwdriver, and a really nice stereo and maybe a bottle of expensive perfume and perhaps some beer/wine glasses that it's okay to drink out of when you're alone and a bookshelf that's not some boards balanced on milk crates.

jocelyn (Jocelyn), Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:21 (twenty years ago)

If I admit that I've never ever bought a piece of furniture myself (all the stuff I have either dates from when I wasn't yet living on my own, or I've gotten it from friends, or found somewhere, or it came with the shared flat I'm living in now), will a girl ever love me?

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:26 (twenty years ago)

9. breakfast makings, water in fridge

important: for the love of god, make sure that the brita is filled. there is nothing worse than staggering to the fridge and finding a brita with like an inch of water in the bottom.

also, having extra pairs of sunglasses is a good idea.

lauren (laurenp), Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:31 (twenty years ago)

Jocelyn, I'm with you! Let's have a DIY day, we can show off the power tools and then drink wine and admire our handiwork.

Laurel, Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:32 (twenty years ago)

Hot DAMN I need bookshelves. URGENTLY. Although boards/milk crates seem k-cool and DIY, hey ho, perhaps that is what I will go for!

I actually have never worn perfume, EVER!

DOES THIS MEAN I AM A BAD GURL?

DOES IT?

DADDY??

HAVE I BEEN BAAAAD?

(sorry)

Lucretia My Reflection (Lucretia My Reflection), Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:34 (twenty years ago)

I've never cared for girls who wear (strong, especially) perfumes. Never saw the point of them.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:36 (twenty years ago)

Starry, where have you BEEN all my life/the last three years??

Laurel, Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:41 (twenty years ago)

Trayce could steal my Bloke if she really wanted to, with a list like that.

I have my own business cards. And I got them at vistaprint for free. I got them when I was a freelance writer, and now I am not a freelance writer anymore I still have loads of them left, so I give them to people when they ask me for my email address because it is very long.

That is the end of my story about business cards.

accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:50 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, but you like BO, Tuomas.

Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:53 (twenty years ago)

The business card one is the creepiest. It reminds me of those weird wolf shirt kids in junior high who made their own cards at kinko's that said "Star Fleet Commander" or "Servant of Satan" on them.

jocelyn (Jocelyn), Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:54 (twenty years ago)

It beats perfume. I've never dated anyone who'd wear perfume on regular basis, and I've never come across a girl who's BO would be so strong that it'd turn me off. Girls tend to wash themselves.

(x-post)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 12:56 (twenty years ago)

A game console, Trayce? I don't need a girl to have a game console. Girls should tsk at me for spending too much time on my own game console. Trust me... in the long run, boys like that better.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Thursday, 11 August 2005 13:21 (twenty years ago)

You're so wrong about this. Perfume smells nice, sometimes incredibly nice, and no-one underestimates the importance of smell in our lives and in our relationships with others. A good perfume will combine in a beneficial effect with the naturally occurring chemicals that make people individual, rather than smothering this subtle but vital scent.

BO is the smell bacteria make when they shit.

Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 11 August 2005 13:24 (twenty years ago)

I hear vanilla is an aphrodesiac. Also, reminds you of cookies. Nothing bad about that at all.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Thursday, 11 August 2005 13:27 (twenty years ago)

I hate to say it, but (real job-related, not homemade) business cards are sometimes appropriate. I have dated ladies where the initial meeting involved the exchange of business cards. Granted, these exchanges took place at some sort of quasi-work-related 'function' of sorts. You see, this sort of shmoozy behaviour is just a fact of life in the media-scumbag world I seem to exist in. Hate on it all you want, it doesn't bother me. Besides, sometimes exchanging business cards can be a thinly-veiled excuse to ask the other person out socially for dinner or something (which of course can be a thinly-veiled excuse to GET TO THE SEXIN'!)

And hell, sometimes it's just practical - especially when email addresses are concerned! Why get a pen, etc when you can just exchange cards? To me it's also a sign that both of you are at least employed! Note that I would never judge the person by their actual job - but having one is a plus...

Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Thursday, 11 August 2005 13:33 (twenty years ago)

xpost - I think smell is important too. But, in my estimation, most women wear perfume because they like the way it smells, not necessarily because it contains musk that attracts men. I read somewhere that men like the scent of cucumbers, which would explain the explosion of cucumber-scented soap a few years ago. Do men like the smell of cucumbers? Why cucumbers?

Also, I never get tired of talking about the merits of heels. I don't wear them with jeans, or pants, really, but a nice dress with a nice pair of heels? How can that be anything but appealing? I guess I might be a little bit old fashioned.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Thursday, 11 August 2005 13:42 (twenty years ago)

Sometimes, I smell aftershave on a man and my tummy does this wobbly flip-flop thing and my knees turn to jelly and if he knew it, he could HAVE ME there and then, but I am quite a good actress and I can hide it alright. Sometimes, I smell Lynx Africa and the same thing happens (fo shame).

Sometimes, a person is wearing something so throatclutchingly overpowering I need to (a) choke or (b) scarper.

Chaps, you have to get these things right, but when you do, you make me feel like sexin'.

Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 11 August 2005 13:49 (twenty years ago)

I generally smell of soap, and shampoo. I'm not big on scented deodorant. "Sea Breeze" is no kind of smell for your pits, and "Sport" is not a smell at all.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Thursday, 11 August 2005 13:55 (twenty years ago)

i know a girl whose perfume reminds me of gin and tonic. that was very nice (or maybe she was drinking G+T at the time, either way)

What are these "emergencies" of which you speak?

kate, so many more emergencies than you'd care to imagine! think waterpipe leaks, for example. I keep several johnnys in the drawer just in case that happens.

oh actually haha 'waterpipe leaks'.

ken c (ken c), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:00 (twenty years ago)

Do men like the smell of cucumbers?

Cucumber-melon is a great combo. My shampoo is cucumber-melon. Also good: pink grapefruit.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:01 (twenty years ago)

also, for the boys, when the rubber expires it's just perfect for 'posh wanks'.

ken c (ken c), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:03 (twenty years ago)

Madchen otm.

leigh (leigh), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

Hmm. I'm kind of pro-personal card (as opp to business card) when they're nifty. I met someone years back who had made her own out of oddly shaped pieces of cardboard and rubber stamps and magazine cutouts. They were all different and impressive. Likewise, I used to know someone in the process of opening a print shop and she'd done up her own adorable personal cards. Good for all kinds of networking esp if you're an artist or freelancer or anything non-traditional-workplace and much more memorable than most of the alternatives (beer labels, receipts from the bottom of purse, sticky napkins). Please, if you can bring yourself to do it, give cards another chance!

Laurel, Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:06 (twenty years ago)

I haven't owned (or wore) cologne in eons. The only smelly stuff on me is aftershave, which is your run-of-the-mill balm from the drugstore. Funnily enough, I have received many compliments from ladies saying "mmm.. you smell good! what is that?". ummm, 'eau de Gillette?'

Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:06 (twenty years ago)

A whiff of Eau Savage or Vetiver and i'm all a quiver.

leigh (leigh), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:09 (twenty years ago)

You're so wrong about this. Perfume smells nice, sometimes incredibly nice, and no-one underestimates the importance of smell in our lives and in our relationships with others.

I agree that smell is important, but I like people's natural smells, not perfumes. They can be rather nice, but I guess it's a matter of taste and what you're used to. Most of my friends don't use perfume, so I associate it with the rich and and the tacky.

In general, I don't like stuff like high heels or perfume, because they make you think that their wearer makes everything in their power to enhance their sex appeal. As I said, I prefer girls who seem to be more comfortable with themselves, and whose whole life doesn't seem to revolve around finding the perfect catch. I know this is highly stereotypical, but I'm talking in principle here - individual cases may vary.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:13 (twenty years ago)

In a world where people get off on amputees and feeding women until they weigh 1,000 lbs and wearing furry animal outfits, is it worth trying to quantify what attracts others and what doesn't?

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:15 (twenty years ago)

xpost - Yeah, see you're stereotyping women who like feminine things. I don't enjoy the overtly feminine act of wearing heels or dresses or perfume because I'm looking for a husband -- I already have one. I like playing dress up. I think, for some women, it's as simple as that. I would wear a bonnet and a dress so large it required a petticoat to work if it wouldn't make me look like a costumed boob. Some people just enjoy dressing up.

N/A OTM. We all just like what we like.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:19 (twenty years ago)

Nope, I'm merely talking about my personal taste. But lists like the ones that started this thread are irritating exactly because they aren't saying "this is what many, or at least some women/men seem to like, in our experience", but instead rely on ages-old sterotypes: MEN ARE LIKE THIS and WOMEN ARE LIKE THIS!

(x-post to Nick)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:21 (twenty years ago)

Laurel are you piffy? Or another Laurel who thinks I'm great! I am, by the way.

Great.

I tend to like shoes with a high heel, although not the For Your Pleasure spike heel sort of thing that comes with accompanying panda, I mean, panther on a leash. I like the round toe, definitely, although I do have a SUPER few pairs of pointy flat shoes. Points + heels kinda = Essex PH34R in my head. Alas.

Hoho Madchen, Lynx Africa? You'd fall for Alan Partridge? Is that what you're saying? Then again he does wear a nice Pringle sweater.

Lucretia My Reflection (Lucretia My Reflection), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:22 (twenty years ago)

More dominatrixes should go around with pandas on leashes, in my opinion.

(well, really, in my opinion more dominatrixes should go around with *me* on a leash, but let's not go there)

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:24 (twenty years ago)

I know many girls who say that they like to dress up, and it's perfectly fine with me, but when they say "I do this just for myself.", I often wonder if that's the whole truth. (Please don't get offended, Manda.) If they do it just for themselves, why dress up in uncomfortable clothes that they know many men will drool after? Why not dress up as a panda or something?

(x-post)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:25 (twenty years ago)

If they do it just for themselves, why dress up in uncomfortable clothes that they know many men will drool after?

Why assume the clothes are uncomfortable?

Leon C. (Ex Leon), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:27 (twenty years ago)

http://www.synapticblur.com/pics/sadpanda.gif

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:27 (twenty years ago)

In a way, isn't it like saying, "I cook for my husband because I like doing it. He doesn't force me or anything.". Well, obviously dressing up can be done for mere fun too, and I'm not against it, but I think there are societal expectations behind this "free choice" too.

(This applies to men too, obviously.)

(x-post)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:28 (twenty years ago)

Nicole, how many girls do you know who find stilettos comfortable? I've yet to come across one...

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:29 (twenty years ago)

Tuomas, the need to feel attractive can, and often deos, exist quite apart from the need to actually attract a mate. It's just a self-esteem thing, certainly bound up in your sexuality, but not necessarily about anything other than your own need to feel attractive. Same reason I like to wear ties. Makes me feel fancy-like.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:29 (twenty years ago)

Oi! Cooking for two is *definitely* more enjoyable than cooking for one. I cook for my friends, too. They don't force me to, either. I really enjoy making something yummy, and seeing the pleasure that people get from it.

Alce Tea-Skirt (kate), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:29 (twenty years ago)

xpost - Tuomas. I'm not offended. I think you're partly right, I guess, but on the whole my ruffly shirts and grandma boots have never yielded a lot of attention (never drooling) from men. Women, occasionally. But men don't really dig the grandma look. I think it's a desire to remove oneself from space and time or something. I don't know. I've liked wearing dress up clothes since I was 5 -- I didn't want to attract men then.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:29 (twenty years ago)

I'm a guy and I enjoy cooking for my gf, despite there being no societal expectations for a man to cook. So why wouldn't it be possible for a woman to enjoy cooking for a mate without society being a factor?

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:32 (twenty years ago)

Obviously it's not just about attracting men or women... It's what we're taught to and what we learn from the society of how "proper" men and women should look like (and kids already know that). Since these things are almost impossible to decode, at least it's better to play with them, but one should acknowledge it's not a free choice, or "just for my own fun".

(x-post)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:34 (twenty years ago)

Nicole, how many girls do you know who find stilettos comfortable? I've yet to come across one...

I don't know many people who wear stilettos, but I'm sure some people probably do. But you were talking about women who "dress up in uncomfortable clothes", after all. It just strikes me as a bit finger wagging and judgemental.

Leon C. (Ex Leon), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:34 (twenty years ago)

Since these things are almost impossible to decode, at least it's better to play with them, but one should acknowledge it's not a free choice, or "just for my own fun".

By this logic, nothing is a free choice. So why bother worrying about it?

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:35 (twenty years ago)

Nick, that's was a just an example... I wasn't trying to say cooking always implies servitude, I was trying to come up with an image of a traditional housewife.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:35 (twenty years ago)

That's why I hate this shit, obviously everything is weighted with societal expectations and history so you can talk about it or worry about it forever but in the end, why fucking bother?

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:37 (twenty years ago)

(x-post)

Yeah, but some choices are freer than other, and gender expectations certainly bind people more than some other things.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:37 (twenty years ago)

From now on, I'm only speaking in sign language and mime.

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

despite there being no societal expectations for a man to cook

Unless you get paid to cook professionally, in which case women are still more rare than men.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

That said, I think I probably should have a fabulous photo of myself. That would make me happy.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

"But what does being trapped in an invisible box say about your penis?"

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

John Holmes as Marcel Marceau

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:40 (twenty years ago)

Tuomas, I think you're so caught up in your admirable empathy with "the female situation" that you've slightly lost track of what is an isn't acceptable in the real, flawed, practical world beyond feminist theory. Which isn't to say you're wrong, but you do seem a bit blinkered sometimes.

Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:42 (twenty years ago)

Okay, I'm sorry if I started to sound preachy. I just hope gendered expectations would loosen up a bit and that people acknowledged these expectations in everyday life, I don't wanna tell anyone what to do and what not to do.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:42 (twenty years ago)

Yes, Starry, I am me. Pytherton at your service, what ho.

No no, I think Tuomas is probably right, and I like that he is considering such things. But T, isn't saying "I play the game because it's fun" more or less equivalent to saying "I do it for myself"?

Laurel, Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:44 (twenty years ago)

Yes, I just think it's good for people to acknowledge the existence of the game rather than to think they're merely doing it for themselves.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:46 (twenty years ago)

I can't wear heels :( I cant walk in them :/

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:50 (twenty years ago)

I'm too tall to wear heels.

Actually, it's a lie that I don't own any. I have Victorian granny/schoolmistress books with massive fuckoff heels on them. I only ever wear them when I want to feel REALLY tall and imposing.

(Which is not exactly a sexual come on. More a sexual fuck OFF. Well, depending on the boy, natch.)

Alce Tea-Skirt (kate), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)

is this thread about 'every single girl' or about every girl who is single?

N_RQ, Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:53 (twenty years ago)

Of course, for women there's also the kind of fucked up scenario in which they dress not to attract men but for the approval of OTHER WOMEN, whose standards may or may not be based on boy-attraction potential or on some fashion ideal that was originally LOOSELY based on boy-attraction. What a mess, eh?

Laurel, Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:54 (twenty years ago)

I guess I feel as stifled by the Gender Politics Police as I do by the people who produced the above list. Why can't people just do what they like, so long as they're not hurting anyone, and get on with it?

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:54 (twenty years ago)

You just need practise, Trayce. *I* can walk in heels, even though I'm nearly as tall as Kate.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:54 (twenty years ago)

Of course it's not that they CAN'T, Milkmaid, it's just that we're discussing why they DO.

Laurel, Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:56 (twenty years ago)

But by telling/deciphering why people do things, doesn't it sort of take the joy out of it? Why does it matter why -- I guess that's what I'm asking.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:57 (twenty years ago)

I have trouble walking in heels if they're stilletto heels. But that's a balance issue. (My Victorian boots have very chunky heels and are quite stable.) I mean I have trouble riding a bicycle because my balance is so bad!

Alce Tea-Skirt (kate), Thursday, 11 August 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

Why can't people just do what they like, so long as they're not hurting anyone, and get on with it?

Hmm, I think my point was that at the moment, we can't do what we want because of all the complex, unwritten rules considering gender. When I can walk the streets in stilettos and a skirt without fearing I'll be beaten up, or when Barbies and baby dolls stop being the way little girls are socialized to the world, maybe then.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:01 (twenty years ago)

i love perfume. im sure my devotion to perfume has put a few people off. but i like the idea of having a signature scent. also i like it when i hug someone and they go "omg you smell sooooooo good" - i also like perfume/cologne on dudes, totally, but yeah, its possible to go overboard.

tuomas, some women/people have a very high arch in their foot, and oftentimes high heels are more comfortable for their feet than regular shoes. i am not one of these people, i find them almost unbearable.

Homosexual II (Homosexual II), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:03 (twenty years ago)

You just need practise, Trayce. *I* can walk in heels, even though I'm nearly as tall as Kate.

So how about a photo with you in the heels on the WDYLL thread?

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:06 (twenty years ago)

I'd probably have to shave my legs first, and I'm too lazy.

(plus, it's pretty awkward to take a good picture of your own legs)

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:07 (twenty years ago)

Tuomas, if you and I could walk down the street together wearing matching skirts and heels, I would be thrilled. That's a world I would like to live in. I think that in order to make that world real, we have to do what we want in order to prove that it's ok. Right? That's why the list that started this thread bothers me so much.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:08 (twenty years ago)

Well, the "beating it to death" part is probably just me. I always like to think/discuss things right into the ground, as Ben and I did last night with the new Mitchum "you're a Mitchum Man" ad campaign. But as to why...well, if you get a grasp of why someone behaves a certain way, you've presumably understood something important about her, and possibly a key to her future behavior. Or just a greater understanding of social/gendered/whatever behavior in general. Or lots of things! Just from my own POV.

And yes, Mands! Heels put more pressure on the balls of my feet, but they also support my arches better than flat shoes. It's true that a squishy contoured athletic shoe would do both but I am not willing to wear sneakers (except to the gym).

Laurel, Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:08 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I agree, Manda.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:10 (twenty years ago)

(x-post)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:10 (twenty years ago)

I actually agree with Tuomas to some extent, but more just as a matter of taste. I've never been interested in perfume, jewelry, heels, lipstick, etc., on women, and instead prefer the natural look. To the extent that ideology comes into it, it's partly because the overly made-up, dressed-up woman seems like a caricature of "sexiness": not only is it not what I find attractive but it's also too overt.

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:11 (twenty years ago)

Ah, for me it isnt the heel itself thats the prob... I have a balance issue due to twisted shin and femur bones, so I roll badly over on me feet when I walk. Pigeon toed I guess its called. I get pain just walking in docs! Stupid feet.

Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:11 (twenty years ago)

Tuomas, can you not accept that maybe barbies etc. ARE more appealing to little girls than little boys? Genders ARE different and it makes me uneasy when people like you want male and female to be a homogeneous, all-encompassing mono-gender.

Haha FP, I've posted a pic of my legs numerous times and I'm pretty happy with it :)

Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:19 (twenty years ago)

You have less self-image issues than I do, though ;-)

And, as I said, I'd have to shave my legs for them to look decent in heels.

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:21 (twenty years ago)

There's an artfulness to wearing things like heels, etc, and that's to not try to hard, but wear what you are comfortable with. The beef I have with the main article is that it tries too hard, it places too much what women think men want, rather than what they want for themselves.

jocelyn (Jocelyn), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:23 (twenty years ago)

xypost: What's up with that "Mitchum Man" campaign? "If you've ever jumped a hurdle running to make a train..." Yeah, dude, trample some children to save youself 5 minutes!

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:23 (twenty years ago)

I suppose I meant 3 figures on a single item of clothing like a poxy pair of jeans.

jel -- (jel), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:23 (twenty years ago)

Tuomas, can you not accept that maybe barbies etc. ARE more appealing to little girls than little boys? Genders ARE different and it makes me uneasy when people like you want male and female to be a homogeneous, all-encompassing mono-gender.

Nope, I don't wanna mono-gender, rather than a plurality of genders... And I don't think girls naturally find Barbies appealing, and anyway they're not exactly a good role model when it comes to body image, don't you agree?

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:24 (twenty years ago)

yeah, no one can twist 360 degrees in reral life!

jel -- (jel), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:25 (twenty years ago)

They are not as bad as Bratz.

jocelyn (Jocelyn), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)

What kind of role model is a stuffed bear? Is it teaching our children to shit in the woods?

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

no one has heads as big as that in real life!

jel -- (jel), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

I took a photo of my legs on my phone. I named it 'fat legz'.

Raston Warrior Robot (alix), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

Well, okay, other dolls which are Tuomas approved then (I used your own example dude!). So are you saying girls don't find dolls appealing naturally? There HAS to be a maternal instinct that is fundamental, natural and, at some point in the girl's life, is likely to prove very useful - why can't dolls be part of exploring this?

Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:30 (twenty years ago)

There HAS to be a maternal instinct that is fundamental, natural and, at some point in the girl's life, is likely to prove very useful

Uhhhh... not to get involved, but stop right there. Because this is a blanket statement that personal experience just doesn't bear out.

Alce Tea-Skirt (kate), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:32 (twenty years ago)

NATURE VS. NUTURE OH NO!!!

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:33 (twenty years ago)

interesting theory:

girls like dolls for that primordial maternal instinct hardwired inside, providing empowerment in that they have something to take care of and devote attention and even affection to.

boys like their equivalent of dolls (little action figures, toy robots etc.) because it makes them feel empowered like gods controlling the actions of their subjects, for that primordial destructive instinct hardwired inside.

bullshit? maybe, just throwin' it out there.

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:34 (twenty years ago)

Oh what, human beans are the only creatures that don't have a natural instinct to look after their completely helpless offspring?

Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:35 (twenty years ago)

Actually, no, forget it. I'm not getting into it.

But I am starting to find that the sweeping generalisations made about Female Nature by men (men of both Mark's and Tuomas' ideologies) are making me VERY uncomfortable.

Perhaps even more uncomfortable than the original stupid article. Whatever.

Alce Tea-Skirt (kate), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:35 (twenty years ago)

xpost to Outsider: Ben said there was a Times article about the fact that the MTA objected to the "hurdled anything" ad because obv they don't want anyone to hurry to the train and trip/fall/die/sue them! But I see that the ads are on trains anyway so apparently the advertising $$$ won out. Hah.

I am with Kate, otherwise. Can we drop the Female Nuturing Is Her Ordained Fate line of discussion, please? It's not going anywhere good.

Laurel, Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:39 (twenty years ago)

girls should play with GI JOES. math is hard.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I think this conversation has reached the dying point.

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:44 (twenty years ago)

oh wait, is it single as in not in a relationship, or just like every girl in the entire world?

jel -- (jel), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

Oh what, human beans are the only creatures that don't have a natural instinct to look after their completely helpless offspring?

Like babies are never dumped in the trash or abandonned on doorsteps, etc. etc. etc. Things go wrong, even with "natural" instincts.

And FWIW, I was never the slightest bit interested in playing with dolls as a child. Does that make me less of a woman? And I really don't think it's the place of a man to describe what is natural for females anyway.

Alce Tea-Skirt (kate), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

the former

Outsider Enter Port City (sexyDancer), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:46 (twenty years ago)

When I was 5 I really wanted a dolls house. Not the dolls though. I WAS INTERESTED IN THE IDEA THAT I COULD BE A GIANT IN CHARGE OF A LITTLE BUT DETAILED HOUSE you see.

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:47 (twenty years ago)

I am only attracted to women that look like this:
http://www.waxmuseum.net/images/RobertPalmer-AddictedToLove.jpg

n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:49 (twenty years ago)

they're all clearly dying for Bobbo to knock them up ASAP!

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:51 (twenty years ago)

I liked Barbies, but not out of maternal urges. It was all about amassing a large collection of clothes and accessories.

tokyo nursery school: afternoon session (rosemary), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:52 (twenty years ago)

A lot of people will probably just say it's always out of maternal urges, in the same way that they'll say sexual urges are always out of primordial urge to reproduce, despite the pleasure aspect and that the louder voice in your head is saying 'of course i don't want a kid yet stupid!'. not sure you can actually prove anything either way here.

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

I WAS INTERESTED IN THE IDEA THAT I COULD BE A GIANT IN CHARGE OF A LITTLE BUT DETAILED HOUSE you see.

Play The Sims.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

MATH IS HARD

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 11 August 2005 15:58 (twenty years ago)

Weirdly The Sims has never really appealed to me, but then I stopped playing video games about seven years ago now. Burnout.

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:00 (twenty years ago)

I am getting major deja-vu with that 'MATH IS HARD' thing, haha

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)

probabbly 392482843982 xposts now, but...

Obviously it's not just about attracting men or women... It's what we're taught to and what we learn from the society of how "proper" men and women should look like (and kids already know that). Since these things are almost impossible to decode, at least it's better to play with them, but one should acknowledge it's not a free choice, or "just for my own fun".

so what is a free choice then?!?!?!?!??!?!? if a girl dresses up deliberately to look unfeminine, isn't that just as if not EVEN MORE contrived?!?!?? "Oh no! if i dress up like a girl people might think i'm only doing it to PULL, uh oh! better dress up like a dude"

i mean that's a free choice then yeah?

ken c (ken c), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)

Unless you get paid to cook professionally, in which case women are still more rare than men.
-- Paunchy Stratego (fluxion2...), August 11th, 2005 3:38 PM. (kenan) (later) (link)

but how do they compare to the steak?

ken c (ken c), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

is this thread still going?

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:04 (twenty years ago)

like a steam engine...

The Milkmaid (of Human Kindness) (The Milkmaid), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

10 Things Every Single Girl Must PWN

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

I wish they taught shopping in school!

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

4/ Dinosaur cookie cutters x 3 (diplodocus, stegosaurus and triceratops)

ok, THIS is more like it!

kingfish completely hatstand (Kingfish), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

Single gulllll, I don't want to be a single gullll
Single gulllll, who would want to be a single gulllll

kingfish completely hatstand (Kingfish), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)

But I am starting to find that the sweeping generalisations made about Female Nature by men (men of both Mark's and Tuomas' ideologies) are making me VERY uncomfortable.

I'm sorry if it sounded that way, I wasn't trying to impose any generalisations on women (or men); on the contrary, that's exactly what I'm against.


so what is a free choice then?!?!?!?!??!?!? if a girl dresses up deliberately to look unfeminine, isn't that just as if not EVEN MORE contrived?!?!?? "Oh no! if i dress up like a girl people might think i'm only doing it to PULL, uh oh! better dress up like a dude"

A greater freedom of choice would be if thinking what to wear wouldn't lead to such binary choices (and I'm not saying it always deos, but this was your example).

Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 August 2005 16:34 (twenty years ago)


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