7-Up (The Michael Apted documentary series)

This is back on ITV, isn't it?

Afraid that, in common with 95% of the viewing public, I'm only really interested in what's happened to Neil.

I did this a few months ago. I think it's worth it, although because there are so many flashbacks in each one, it gets sort of repetitive after a while: by 42-Up I was able to recite particular interview answers verbatim.

sorry. i'm making it up. you're not.

"offensively awesome", I hope it's not the "cast of 49-Up orgy".

It makes me wonder about the working to 65 agenda of this government, and the theory that we're going to live so much longer after retirement.

In the search for perfection lies the root of neurosis...

Also people seems to age rapidly between 42 and 49. Some of them looked quite old indeed...
-- Bob Six (bobbysixe...) (webmail), Yesterday 10:42 PM. (later) (link)

uh oh.

- you enter your 40s looking young and leave them looking old

- you move away from career ambitions and think about contentment, concerning yourself with home/family/garden/holiday home/singing in the choir/village cricket

- if you didn't choose a job/career you liked, then this is the period where life gets hard (same applies for choice of partner as well)

- if you develop a serious health problem (rheumatoid arthritis etc), life goes really seriously downhill and hello poverty

- there's an aura of sadness around most 49ers

I'm 44, I looked young at 40, don't know if I still do, so who knows.

- you move away from career ambitions and think about contentment, concerning yourself with home/family/garden/holiday home/singing in the choir/village cricket

Kinda there already, but still no cricket/choir.

- if you didn't choose a job/career you liked, then this is the period where life gets hard (same applies for choice of partner as well)

Just about OK

- if you develop a serious health problem (rheumatoid arthritis etc), life goes really seriously downhill and hello poverty

Hah, been there, had that, got better.

- there's an aura of sadness around most 49ers

I'm still alive and that's something.

The woman who now lives in Scotland (I've already forgotten all of their names) seemed such a fantastic person; when she was talking back to Apted I was practically cheering.

Surprised to see that so many interviewees have grandchildren now, before the age of 50. Also a bit surprised that John agreed to take part, since he didn't appear in 28 or 42, and his appearance in 35 seemed more like an effort to polish his image as an upper-crust snob and advertise his charity work than anything else.

When Nick announced that he and his first wife had gotten divorced, I found myself saying "Yes!" out loud. I mean, I never thought they seemed like a good match, but I suppose frivolous judgments such as mine is exactly why the interviewees dislike being put on display like this.

Over the past few weeks I watched the entire series through Netflix. I just finished the latest installment about an hour ago.

I realize the next one won't be out for another 5 years, but I feel compelled to offer quick thoughts on some of the participants.

I liked Tony a lot until the weird "I'm like everyone else - I prefer to be with people from my own culture" comments in 49 up. He's inspiring because he makes me think that I, or anyone else, really, could manage to become a semi-successful professional actor. In 28 up, he's absolutely awful in his acting lessons, but there he is in the successive installments, as an extra, or in that commercial with the naked people running around. Tony - the sort of likeable racist!

Jackie, Lynn and Sue are really, really boring, except when Sue sang karaoke in 42 up. That was awesome.

Everyone mentions the supposed big turnaround in Suzy's life, comparing her at 21 and then afterward. She still seems to have an underlying sorrow in her eyes, but maybe that's just me. Then again, most of the participants in this series seem to have a mournful quality.

I want to like Andrew, but he's so tight-lipped that watching his progress through the years is much less revealing than most of the other participants. In 49 up, Andrew says he and the other two rich kids (Charles and John) have been very guarded on camera, starting with the 21 film. Apted asks him what he's guarding, and Andrew pauses, says he's "Guarded about being guarded...", and then smiles smugly. Moving on...

John refused to participate in 28, and then reappeared for 35, supposedly to publicize his Oxfam charity work in Bulgaria, before disappearing again in 42. He's back in 49, and although his asshole persona seems to be slightly fading, it's still grimly evident in every word he says.

With every next disc, I was disappointed that Charles had again refused to be filmed, which is ironic because he's a documentarian himself, working on Touching the Void. In fact, on Wikipedia it says "Michael Apted revealed that Charles had attempted to sue him when he refused to remove his appearances from the archive sequences in 49 Up." Damn!

Paul has been working at sign making company for ten years, and he STILL hasn't asked for or received a raise??

Symon seems very personable, so it's kind of strange to me that 2 of his 5 kids still won't speak to him.

It was sad watching Nick throw his intellectual weight into nuclear fission research in the 1980s, because we all know how that turned out.

Peter dropped out of the series after 28 up, apparently after criticism in the press over his political beliefs. On Wikipedia it says he "became a lawyer and eventually a musician and singer-songwriter", in a band called The Good Intentions.

I've always liked Bruce a lot, even though my girlfriend quite correctly points out that he is boring.

Then there's Neil, of course. The transformation in his personality from 7 to 28 are some of the most heartbreaking moments in the entire series. Now he's involved in local politics. I wonder if his presence in the Up! series has helped or hindered his political career.

Yeah Neil is the real focal point of the series, because his life has been the strangest of them all. The others all had lives that panned out relatively normally, really. I found 49up SO DEPRESSING, for reasons others stated above. Regrets and resignation and rapid aging. It really makes me down about my own mortality.

havent read the thread but this gets kindof brutal to watch multiple "episodes" or whatever in a row (most are on netflix watch it now btw). constantly seeing the flashbacks to everyone at 7 is like being shown home movies of someone elses kids over and over again

I did this a few months ago. I think it's worth it, although because there are so many flashbacks in each one, it gets sort of repetitive after a while: by 42-Up I was able to recite particular interview answers verbatim.

-- jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, September 14, 2005 7:13 AM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9206960/Seven-Up-Now-we-are-56.html

back next month (apologies for the Torygraph link). i hope Neil's alright.

seems like almost the entire thing is on You Tube atm in episode-by-episode feature length chunks.

BOM BOM BOMMMMM. tonight. so psyched for this!
apparently thirteen of the original fourteen participants are involved; i am thinking this includes the kid of the kind of private-school-three who stopped participating and then went on to become a documentarian for channel four.

I have bad news for you

anyway yes, excellent news

I missed out quite a few updates, and the kids are quite interested in the concept.

i watched the whole thing in a couple of weeks a year or so ago. so amazing. as valuable a document on thatcherism as there is, too.

the poor people did come rushing in iirc

All are still alive, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApamMLKaCVo&feature=player_detailpage#t=3087s

What does everyone think of John's comments here?

That's an hour-long show!

Oops, that didn't work quite the way I thought it would. I mean, what does everyone think of John's comments starting at 51:29 of the above video?

Let's be charitable:

John was shackled to a portrait of himself at 7 that was "all poor peopple are smelly and should be (etc)" from the first episode. I can believe he had a life of priv and fast-track, and felt for more than one reason he had to make good for his previous 'entitleness' attitude. (to be fair, during the first ep they had a party for all 14 participants and he was all "actually, they were all jolly good fun and nice" etc)

So, don't know what 'comments' you are referring to, but he has latterly been very "this programme is the cross I have to bear" ...

I mean these comments in particular:
"I suspect that why this program is compelling and interesting for viewers, and I quite see why it is, is because really it's like 'Big Brother' or 'I'm A Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here', it is actually real-life TV and with the added bonus that you can see people grow old, lose their hair, get fat. Fascinating, I'm sure, but does it have any value? That's a different question."

He phrased it in a rather blunt fashion. The program certainly has more value than 'Big Brother', for instance. But there could be an element of truth in what he says. The show started out with more of a sociological aim and ended up being more about human interest. On the other hand, human interest isn't necessarily a bad reason to watch a show.

So, there you go.

Just thought it was an interesting statement that got me thinking. The series itself and its aims, much like the people featured on it, has changed at lot over the years. I don't think that's a bad thing. There must be something of value in it for me since I've sat down and watched every episode so far. I'm nervously looking forward to tonight's episode, in the sense that I feel it will probably be very interesting but also contain some depressing truths about life's difficulties.

It's rare that you're able to witness the progression of a person's life outside of real time. Even if you're not seeing the whole picture (e.g. six-year chunks of missing time, the inevitable subjectivity of editing choices, etc.), the contracted nature of that presentation gives one a bit more perspective on the effects that class and environment and expectation have on how a person's life unfolds. I think it's an extremely worthwhile endeavor for that fact alone, but it's also just really engaging to see where these folks are after some time has elapsed.

Just got back from 56 Up. I watched the 7 through 49 all in the span of about two weeks seven years ago, so this was the first one where I really felt time pass along with all of the participants. Man, it made me really emotional. The series is about not just the main interviewees but also their spouses, their parents, their children, their neighborhoods, their workplaces and friends.

I've been holding off on this until I catch up with 49 Up. Saw 28/35/42 when they came out; I wrote about buying a box set I can't play (because of formatting) on another thread. The theatre that's been playing 56 ran the whole series a couple of months ago, but I couldn't get out that weekend. I really don't want to skip from 42 to 56.

there's enough recapping in every edition that you can probably cope ok

Yes. It's not the gap that bothers me as much as, will I even take the time to see 49 Up if I skip ahead to 56? I know that parts of 49 will be incorporated into 56.

LOL at the guy who rejoins the series only to plug his band.

(watching 56 Up right now)

fuck that guy

& his shitty band

i watched them all in a row earlier this year. lots of repetitive content, but mostly good. band guy not as annoying as posh guy who only appears to pimp his bulgarian charity or w/e. 70 Up should be interesting. hate the documentarian dude who hasnt done one since the early 70s more than anyone else

...Apted?

He means Charles.
The self-promo aspect is very ugh, breaks the spell of the films.
How/what format are you watching it, ET?

The three part version that aired on BBC was posted on USENET awhile back and am just getting around to it.

fuck that guy & his shitty band

Yeah, but if you freeze frame on what the tabloid said about him back in the 80s ("why is this man allowed to teach our kids?" or something) you can at least understand why he decided to be a bit wary of participating for the good of humanity.

56 Up airing on PBS channel 13-New York tonight at 10

these are all on netflix USA, we are slowly (because of newborn who seemingly wants to go to bed every time we are ten minutes into an episode) getting through them, and they are wonderful. marcello is talking nonsense above, watching each episode and letting it unfold in full is clearly the best way to watch this. heart breaking every couple of minutes. we are only halfway through 21 Up but I am already pretty worried for about half of them. and oh my god, what a picture of britain's class system this is. also noticed that in the first episode the voiceover talks about meeting Britain's future business leaders and union leaders - seemingly not realising how marginalised union leaders will be in the future.

funny that

i think that's my point? that what's taken as inevitable in 1963 is almost demolished by the time the series hits its later volumes?

it's fascinating seeing the changes in society as the series wears on, the pre-echoes and ripples of the change that surrounds them.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/jun/01/seven-up-at-63-documentary-michael-apted-cameraman-george-jesse-turner-interview

I'm at least three behind, maybe four. I've got a box set up to 49, I think, that I can't play because it's the wrong region.

calz, it's easy to make any DVD player region free, a Google search with your model number will tell you how.

Wrong poster, but thanks, I'll look into that.

I really need to start wearing my glasses more

Haven't watched any of these, is it worth watching all of them from the start?

yes

Absolutely, though maybe watch the first three & then leave a year between each. Not only will this give a better feel for time passing, they got very recappy for a few decades in the middle, and you’d likely get fatigued if bingeing.

Each contains a bit of flashback/recap, but they're all great and worth seeing from the start.

It really is, but you do start to get tired of repeated clips.

You should break them up with his Bond film and Coal Miner's Daughter and pretend they're part of the series.

So Lynn died, I was wondering if they'd all be around for this one.

And what of the other 12 participants? Well, the passage of time has brought death and illness to some. “This time we lost Lynn, who died in 2013. It was hard. But we have made a true documentary about these lives that is also a document of the times. The clothes and the buildings all change with the people.”

It'd be nice if they could re-edit all of them to remove the recaps (to a greater extent) as a "new series"

God, this is a tough watch now. Sue was a ray of light as ever.

I found it easier to watch than the 49 up one. The loss of youth must upset me more than the decline into decrepitude, I guess.

i watched 7-49 over the span of a few days and it was a surreal but amazing experience.

Imagine the experience would be similar to watching either the Apu or Antoine Doinel films consecutively, also to a certain extent Boyhood.

The skip 30sec button is v useful for those recaps.

I found marathoning them to be such a powerful experience, seeing people age in unexpected ways as if you're in a Victorian time machine.

The second episode dips in interest considerably, with a rather dull run of Bruce, Jackie and Lynn (rip).

oops - and Peter (who I seem to have nearly forgotten already)

bruce was a bit dull yes and peter's terrible band is terrible but i liked when jackie was telling apted off, plus lynn worked near where i live so that was good also, spotting shots of bethnal green etc

Nothing dull about Jackie and Lynn imo

Apted maybe should have followed up Peter's comment about leaving the Labour party rather than just do the standard "What do you think about Brexit?" but yes, Peter not very fertile ground.

It's a shame they've questioned the value of carrying on the series, on the grounds that it would descend into "covering people just getting older". That we characterise the experience of post-retirement years as that is maybe something the Up series could challenge.

Just realised laat night that Suzy has dropped out this time, skewing the gender split even more.

Yes, that's a shame. It would have been good to see. She must struggle in particular with seeing the same clips brought out.

I'm questioning my own sensitivity, as Jackie and Lynn do and did have interesting lives with their high points and tragedies. Lynn's work was a meaningful achievement and struggle and it was good to see it recognised. And it was sad to see her family grieving her at the end.

But I did find something very flat about the overall presentation in this episode that left me dissatisfied.

Suzy's clips from 21 Up are amazing, and I can understand that her real life is always going to be a bit too normal and will always be compared to that time, so can understand if she's out.

lol i finally checked the wikipedia page to find out more abt the -- as i had completely misremembered it -- quite a few ppl who had dropped out over the years, only to discover that it's just two (charles and suzy) plus lyn obviously. apted's feud with charles (who is a documentary film-maker) is funny.

Peter showing up again to promote his band was the best shit ever.

again!

I meant in 56, to be clear

haha ok, in that case i meant "twice!"

Peter showing up again to promote his band was the best shit ever.

― reggae mike love (polyphonic), Thursday, June 6, 2019 10:34 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

My favourite thing about this was imagining the months of persuasion it took from the other members of the band

Is the next one the last? Calling the whole thing '7 to 70' or something and then leaving it would be.. quite good?

apted has said he like to still be doing it for 84up (when he will be 99)

stuff happens to people after age 70 iirc

Great third episode.

Where is this available in the US?

1st episode is on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR2_Ym4nkJw

This guy has everything 7 through 49 if you're looking to catch up

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYoC-f99Vb37jfNe6SOGCqw/videos

Thanks. I'm not even sure I saw the last one, seems like much more than 7 years have passed.

RIP

did not know he directed so many other movies

Oh man

last Feb, saw the trailer for 63 Up in a cinema and winced just to think of how Brexity some of the subjects must be now. obv it never came out, and now my window to catch up via torrent has been extended from six years to "indefinite."

I don't remember a huge amount of focus on Brexit, though it is mentioned.

I actually thought there was a pretty pronounced emphasis on Brexit, certainly contemporary politics. The installment kind of sets one person up to be a leaver but then reveals them as a remainer. They may even have some bad things to say about Trump, specifically. For sure the one living in America has stuff to say about Trump. Then another one they set up as a Tory prig they reveal to be a generous philanthropist who works for immigrant rights. Anyway, this installment I found particularly moving, as everyone from director to subjects are getting older and/or ill. A couple of subjects are angry and/or confrontational with Apted, iirc. Anyway, lots of turns and surprises, as usual.

Hardly anyone in the UK has ever had anything good to say about Trump - Leavers, Tories, you name it. Republican presidents tend to not to be too popular in the UK.

Well, yeah. I just mean the installment definitely and frequently addresses current politics, and iirc the guy invokes Trump specifically in the context of Brexit and why he voted remain. But maybe I am confusing/conflating him with the guy living in the US who is explicitly asked about Trump.

Aw shit. I've had the UK blu-ray of the series up through 63 but haven't worked out how to actually play it yet, so I still haven't seen the latest installment. I've meant to re-watch through all of the earlier ones first, as I haven't seen any of them since 56 came out.

I just said this on the obituary thread, but while they should probably end the series now Apted has passed, I'll be genuinely sorry not to be able to check in with the "cast" of this show and see what's happening to them, and where their lives have gone. It truly is one of the most remarkable and consistently moving things I have ever experienced, though I'm sure a great deal of that is up to how Apted approaches the challenge of making the show, and the way he deals with his subjects' awareness of the fact that they are subjects of a running documentary series that is a cultural phenomenon - like, he manages to mostly negate it in as much as it would affect the intention of the show, but where the framework does become the subject, or the weirdness of growing up under the world's gaze, he does so in a way that is ultimately enlightening.

while they should probably end the series now Apted has passed, I'll be genuinely sorry not to be able to check in with the "cast" of this show and see what's happening to them

70 And Out

I'm guessing he was some of the way along on the next one.

I'd be surprised if he hadn't groomed someone to be his successor. 63 is no age for the series to end.

He was just a production assistant or w/e on the first one, it'd make sense for the team to do a final one without him.

Haven’t seen 63 Up yet but we watched all of the series one after the other earlier in 2020 and it was extremely disorienting to go through human lives that fast. Can’t say I would recommend it; I felt mildly seasick after they got to middle age.

I loved the series and having watched it but the watching itself brought its own issues apparently.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/movies/michael-apted-up-series-future.html

Claire Lewis, who started as a researcher on “28 Up” and later became a lead producer, said that Apted had always been “very proprietorial” about the series. But she recalled that on the press tour for “63 Up,” as it became clear that the director was becoming more frail and forgetful, he told a Q. and A. audience, “I suppose she could do it,” gesturing to Lewis.

“I could carry it on,” Lewis said, adding that it would come down to the subjects’ assent and the health of the crew. The cameraman, George Jesse Turner, and sound engineer, Nick Steer, have been with the program since “21 Up,” from 1977; the editor, Kim Horton, joined for “28 Up.”

“None of us are spring chickens — we’re all geriatric, honestly,” Lewis said, citing her own age as “70-ish.” “We’re going to need an ambulance, if we ever did it again, to take us all around. I think we’ll just have to say we’ll wait and see.”

Asked if she would participate without Apted, Bassett began to cry. She agreed that Lewis, who’d long had the job of keeping in touch with the cast between shoots, was the logical successor. (Walker concurred and was more enthusiastic about continuing.)

“70 and 7 do have a good symmetry,” Bassett said. “It would definitely have to be the last one for everybody.”

Aw, ta.

I felt guilty hoping they would do 70, because I feel like nobody owes me that, but hearing that it sounds like maybe it will happen really warms me.

I absolutely understand if it ends now or at 70 but I do think it’s a shame. I remember hearing Apted being quite dismissive of the value of it going on too long, but I think our society is so bad at differentiating ages over 65. You could still easily live for 30 years, and I think those different phases of later life are definitely worth exploring, even if this can’t be the avenue for it.

28-up (millennium version) on bbc1 tonight

RIP Nick Hitchon
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/28/movies/nicholas-hitchon-seven-up-dead.html

What a pleasure it is to see him so vibrant and engaged in 21 Up, and the glints in his eye and barely contained sneers facing off with Apted in subsequent films. RIP.

i'd seen all the films individually but never in proximity to each other, until earlier this year i sat down and watched the whole series beginning to end over the course of a couple months. one of my takeaways was that Nick was the subject who i was most thankful kept participating. he's obviously not the only person to critique the project & the experience, and all of the subjects are important to the series, but imho it would have been a different & significantly diminished series if Nick had bowed out at 35.

Only saw some of them and not in a while, can somebody sum up what his critique is?

The obit gets into it a bit:

Over the years, Professor Hitchon expressed both admiration for what the series was accomplishing and discomfort with being a part of it and with the way it was edited.

“I’ve learnt that the stupider the thing I say, the more likely it is to get in,” he told The Independent of Britain in 2012, when “56 Up” was released. “You’re asked to discuss every intimate part of your life. You feel like you’re just a specimen pinned on the board. It’s totally dehumanizing.”

He also thought the filmmakers had a tendency to play up stereotypes of British society, something he said he felt even as a boy in the early installments, when crew members would chase sheep into the camera’s view while filming him.

“These people thought that I was all about sheep,” he told The Chronicle of Higher Education in 2005. “I’m quite fond of sheep, but I was more interested in other things.”

Any word on wether the series is going to continue?

xp yeah nothing drastically different from what many of the other subjects had to say, but Nick just had a way of crystallizing in a very clear & insightful way that got right to the heart of the issues. angry & annoyed at times but never letting it overtake a sort of good natured openness in spite of it all. he clearly seemed to think the series had value & was important and was able to separate that from his (totally valid) feelings of frustration & mistreatment.

Cow_Art, Apted has also passed and I'm pretty sure no one's planning to continue without him.

Yeah, I knew he had died. It just seems like such a shame to let it stop at this point.

Perhaps, but I think that despite the very valid complaints from participants being discussed here they did have a rapport with Apted that couldn't easily be replicated, just by virtue of having gone through this together if nothing else. I also find the idea of it continuing until every last participant is dead and buried super depressing, but that might be my own fear of mortality.

A cash prize for the last one standing

I do totally get that it would be hard to continue, but I also disagree with those who say the study has run its course. There's a huge difference between being 63 and, say, 84 and how people deal with old age would be of great interest.

Seconded, Alba, but like you say I don't know how they could.

We watched all the series a few years back in one burst, when they were on one of the streaming apps, and it was wonderful. My partner and I still say "I wanna be a jockey when I grow up", or recite that speech by one of the little kids about getting a girlfriend, along the forlorn lines of "but what if she wants to go out and you don't want to go out and...", seemingly inventing Madness's My Girl a decade or so early.

After Apted died, his longtime producer Claire Lewis suggested that she could continue the series, but was noncommittal.