why is ILM more male-dominated than ILE?

oh please this is such a cliche. along the lines of "all those women on ILE always sharing their feelings as a cunt-airing exercise."

These threads always end badly and nothing ever gets resolved.

It can all be boiled down to a basic divide between people who like hyper hetro-masculine culture (with everything that goes with it) and those who would like to be able to have a decent conversation without being attacked for daring to have opinions on gender issues that differ from the majority.

I predict this thread will explode, sending large chunks into the stratosphere.

I like both. Thus my participation is limited and judicious.

(Oddly enough, though, every single person in here named Sarah has been lovely. And people whom I've called "Honorary Sarahs", of which I can count maybe two people, have been wonderful too.)

ha ha, yesterday's "musical" thread quickly turned into a classic rock block.

IN BIZZARO WORLD

IN BIZZARO WORLD

why are the glorious ladies of ILX so easily discouraged!! All this, "i started a thread and nobody responded so why bother" kinda stuff. Join the club! I can direct you to 50 threads i've started that nobody responded to! didn't stop me. i'm incorrigibbbbbble. i wish more female ilxors would start music thread on a whim of the OMG, I JUST HEARD THE BEST SONG variety. fuck the haterz. Nobody ever feels that way on the other boards that i go on (all of which have more women on them - I Love Books, Noize, ILE), there is no reason to be intimidated by the dorks of ILM. They are mostly toothless. Er, harmless. A large percentage of my fave posters on ILX are women, and it just seems nutz that they would go everywhere else on ILX, but fear to tread here. HERE! Home of the trembling talk talk fan!

-- scott seward (skotro...), June 21st, 2005. (scott seward)

1 donut hallivallerieburtonelli omg lol 2148 (57)
2 miccio 2037 (6)

(Sorry, I don't have a personal ax to grind here. It just made me laugh when I looked at the ILM stats to see if I have gone up again (I'm hoping no) and saw you at #2.)

That's the problem as well: you want to see more *female* posters. I doubt a lot of women would do just that because they are female. Does that make sense? (Lame excuse, but my English is crap sometimes, especially when I have a headache the size of my belly.)

One of the reasons I post less: I listen to less music and secondly I find ILM has become less... analytical. Yes, I'm being nostalgic, but I do miss those Pop VS Rock, Rockists (hahah!), Indie Guilt,... threads. And, again, yes, I realize *I* could change that by posting those type of threads. But I'm too busy AIMing. ;-)

Then again, maybe I'm romanticising: 2002/2003 also was just the time when I got into a hell of a lot of stuff that's big on ILM, and there's nothing like a fresh convert, so maybe I'm projecting my own jadedness a bit.

1) have you heard this new album
2) cover connections
3) what new songs in x genre do you like right now
4) what is this song i'm looking for?
5) mp3 party
6) Villalobos Fabric

7) baiting the mentally ill

Because people sometimes jump on you for saying (according to them of course) *stupid* things or just plain ignoring you. You have to have... a strong stomach sometimes. Sometimes discussions felt like a match to outdo eachother. Maybe it's imaginary,but that's sometimes how it feels/felt.

1) drunk agin
2) post pictures of people in raincoats here!
3) that's it...i'm leaving...FOREVER
4) office worker dada thread #3452
5) pictures of my ugly looking dinner
6) Tuomas boner

Damn you, sir, you are ignoring Australia and New Zealand.

Fun with hydrostatic pressure. I be the recoil knocked him halfway to Greenland.

The ice cap put a damper on things.

-- nathalie, a bum like you (stevienixe...), October 16th, 2005 1:22 PM. (stevie nixed)

I feel this way 300x more on ILE than ILM.

Note: This presumes that it is possible to sex ILM posters with a fair degree of accuracy - a feat that is far trickier than it might look at first glance.

I agree with this. I find it interesting that guys keep complaining "why are the wimmins so INTIMIDATED?" when the ladies are all saying "well actually no, um, its kind of boring if you must know".

Or my equiv of that, which is a bit sadder: I just dont seem to have that much interest in the latest bladywazoo grunketycrumpgrimeemomajiggerty boo. I realise that makes me sound like some cranky old pensioner, but whatever.

Sure, I could talk about Liz Fraser's hairdos or my conspiracy theory about how Kristin Hersh is the reincarnation of Sylvia Plath, but who would want to talk about that?

But indimidating? Pfft. Nuh. Trainspotty? Indeedly Eno-doodly.

xpost haw

I don't know why I even click through threads like that one when I can tell where it's going to go just by the title & the number of posts. It's ones like this that make me roll my eyes & escape back to ILE. I liked the shoegazing thread last week. We need more like that.

I seem to recall Ned was very helpful and suggested I hie me to some Talk Talk and KoD records. WHich I still havent done, ahaha. Oh dear.

Totally, like Kingdom of Loathing. Your turns are reset at midnight. I guess you could get more by how many excelsior points you rack up, or some kind of PvP adaptation could be put into place. Possibilities.

Favourite John Peel quotes

I guess I keep reading because sometimes you stumble over a gem of a thread like that one.

I agree with this. I find it interesting that guys keep complaining "why are the wimmins so INTIMIDATED?" when the ladies are all saying "well actually no, um, its kind of boring if you must know".

I think I said this on the last "why are there no women on ILM" thread.. "Male dominated"? Hate to break it to you, but isn't it more like "male geek out & most women not so interested"? Classifying, analyzing, genrifying, listmaking, not activities that appeal to me so much.

beyond standard male = autist + aggressive answers, i have trouble differentiating ilm's state now vs. its history. plus factoring in my own uh state... has this year just been bad for music period? i get the feeling it is but god knows i can't afford to care too much or keep track. ilm used to seem so charming and lively and funny and bottomless but now it's just bottomless, and i can't tell if thats it or me or music changing or what.

I think its totally understandable that critics, who represent the realm of science, would quick to dismiss musical acts whose appeal is derived from magic, a force that we find aggrivating and intimidating. We seek to dismantle it, to spank it, by any means necessary. Hence the panning of Atom Heart Mother.
x-post but would you deny that the magic and talent are linked? It is the presence of magic that forces us to ignore the talent.

-- miccio (anthonyisrigh...), October 16th, 2005.

and

I escape this quandary by only reviewing bands whose guitarists are worse than me.
You'd be talking out of your ass by saying, for example, that a band has "mindless, common verse-chorus-verse songwriting" if you are a frustrated musician who can't write a single catchy song in the manner you are panning in the review and happen to be fixated on Zappa at the moment and the concept of writing nontraditional songs due to your complete inability to craft a decent "standard song." Your review could be more about your own goals, expectations and frustrations rather than the music itself.

-- Zep Floyd (...), October 16th, 2005.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Right. OK.
-- joseph cotten (josephcotte...), October 16th, 2005.

lolerskates!

I've also noticed that after one of these ILE threads about ILM a few women come over and tentatively test the waters...c'mon in!

well I was trying to satirize this whole gender-stereotyping thing it makes everybody sound dumb! and I'm such an intolerant theory-phobe that saying women don't truck w/such bogus erudition (even half-seriously)is my warped idea of a compliment.

I read those threads w/perverse fascination because most of the posts could be in esperanto for all the sense they make to me.

# Bands/Songs discovered through Beavis and Butthead (MESTEMA) - LIST
# no limit records/cash money records - search and destroy (realbigrealbigrealbig) - RANKING
# Having your demo MP3s all over P2P before you've had a hit single: happy accident or clever buzz-building marketing ploy? (mike t-diva) - TAKING SIDES
# Free Music Netlabels: Heros or Zeros? (Paul Rosora) - TAKING SIDES
# Alternatives to iTunes? (Ned T. Rifle)
# 100 (or perhaps more) great double A-sided singles... (edward o) - LIST/RANKING
# What is the best song about Heroin? (Austin Still) - RANKING
# Well Respected Artists/Bands that everyone talks about but you never heard one of their albums. (Voodoo Child) - LIST
# WBWJBI (Cowsngunsdontmix) - HYPOTHETICAL HUMOUR-BASED
# Just How Badly Would Johnny Cash have kicked Hank Williams' ass in a full out brawl? (Sugar Monkey) - TAKING SIDES

Aw. Trust me, they're good! :-)

My wish is that all good/witty/sharp posters (of which there are a vast amount) should post as they feel comfortable when they want. The rest takes care of itself.

ned t. rifle?

I apologize for the moving in mysterious ways.

I think this is going to have me laughing all day.

I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL MY PINK KATE BUSH SHIRT COMES IN THE MAIL

I have read ("done" if that's how one says it) a lot a lot a lot of pomo theory. In grad school. I'm very burned out on it, pulling out the theory toolbox often seems to drain all the life out of something that's interesting, so I don't do it much any more. In academe, the age of theory's kind of over anyway. It all certainly influenced my outlook on the world but explaining that one in a precise, comprehensible way would take ages. I lack patience..

Clearly ILX as a whole is not doing enough to attract boring women.

How come there are so few women on the philosophy, pomo, theory threads? (Serious question.)

And if you go to a big ILX FAP, you can sometimes see Dan & Ned at the same table, where crazily enough the universe doesn't explode, but you do sometimes end up laughing so hard that you can't eat anything.

I DON'T BELIEVE IT

ILM Census: Are You Male or Female?

ILM is more male-dominated because being a music nerd is more of masculine endeavour. I know lots of girls who love music, but they're rarely into the sort "I know more about music than you do" debates and obsessive studying, dissecting, and listing of all possible facts about certain artists/records/genres that many male music nerds love. Why is this so, I'm not sure.

i can think of one way of redressing the balance, if only by losing one male poster.

You'd take a bullet for the girls?

that's a noble sentiment FREE DOM AND ETHAN(special guest stars mark bronson), but I think it would actually be counter-productive to ILX gender relations to suggest ban the one male poster with a sufficient understanding of womens' studies to bridge the gap

Btw, I didn't mean to imply I'm above the sort of music nerd behaviour I mentioned above. But for some reason it seems to be mostly a guy thing.

The gender breakdown is assumed to be 4:1 male: female across the autistic spectrum. Research has shown when considering individuals with Asperger syndrome/high functioning autism, the ratio could be as high as 15:1 (Wing 1981).

There's more recent work that suggests Asperger's is chronically under-diagnosed in women.

because up until now they've only been looking on ILM, presumably.

The gender breakdown is assumed to be 4:1 male: female across the autistic spectrum.

Also, coincidentally, the ratio of men:women on ILM.

coincidentally

I can't think why on earth women would be more likely than men to be put off by rabid idiotic internet mentalists.

music is v v homosensual

I wish I knew as much as everyone.

Jesus, people.

I can't think why on earth women would be more likely than men to be put off by rabid idiotic internet mentalists.

Me either. No, really! I mean, you're just repeating the thread question, not answering it.

I can't think why on earth women would be more likely than men to be put off by rabid idiotic internet mentalists.

Because rabid idiotic internet mentalists tend towards casual misogyny?

Jul1a hangs around some other forums that are almost all female, and I was surprised (but hardly shocked) to learn just to what degree rabid idiotic internet mentalism knows no gender.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=-turfrcQY-w&feature=channel

The fact that girls can also be rabid idiotic internet mentalists does not mean that it comes in the same flavor as male-dominated internet mentalism.

Top internet mentalist issue among women: abortions vs. no abortions
Top internet mentalist issue among men: Jay-Z vs. Nas

Top internet mentalist issue among women: hottest vampire

I want to take ILM back in time and read the 20,000-post LL Cool J vs. Kool Moe Dee thread

what is an example of casual, or even non-casual, misogyny on ILM?

most of ilx is rubbish anyway, obviously, but it's probably not really true that most of the people on ILM, male or female, are insane or seriously mentally impaired. the main problem with people on ilx, if I think about it, is how ludicrously aggressive they nowadays are, in a way that would get them glassed if they did it in a pub.

stfu

(kidding, kidding)

i've been watching digg.com for the past couple years and it has a lot of casual misogyny. Kind of surprising since its mostly computer nerds/gamers/etc. it made me appreciate ilx, srsly.

That's sad!

get in the kitchen, bitch! (+309 diggs)

Many straight men want partners who remind them of themselves (show "male traits").

Many straight women want partners who remind them of themselves (show "female traits")

Or perhaps I should say "feminine" & "masculine" traits.

Honestly it's a wonder any of us exist at all.

BTW, am I the "one male poster" referred to above? If so, getting rid of me solves nothing. The balance is still quite lopsided, with or without me.

pretty sure, given the context, it's tuomas he's talking about there

But men always want to prove they're not women. Why? Doesn't their biology kindof make this ridiculous?

I saw this funny thing in a monthly comics newspaper I subscribe to that said (and I quote) "the best part about gay men is that they're not always trying to prove they're not gay".

Gender is the most ridiculous construct of the entire human race. It exists only in order that we procreate. Sure, it's chemical, sure, it's biological. And it's all a great big bunch of shite in my opinion. Who fucking cares? Be yourself, that's what I say.

Just watching that clip now Noodle, and I love it. I confess it looks familiar for some reason.

Okay watched the whole thing now, Noodle and that's just what I needed. I think I know what it's from but it doesn't matter. That's just what I needed. Thank you very much.

And it's from My Fair Lady. I knew that. Thanks once more. I'll get me coat now.

MFL's on at the theatre in Hull next month. It's one of my fave musicals, I'm gonna try to take Mrs V along.

Wow! I don't think I've seen that movie in a very, very long time. Don't even know what to make of it, really, though normally I have a deeply ingrained respect for musicals, even some Broadway stuff...there's something of my childhood in that sort of thing, though my dad was more into classical...

Now if you'll excuse me I have to disconnect my computer because some lovely (crazy?) soul has asked me to repost a fantastic British pop-punk single by the Low Numbers from 1979 on my blog, which means I have to rip it again from vinyl. Of course this doesn't have anything to do with this thread, but by god, I feel more at home here than the gay thread, that's for sure. *whew* Thanks Noodle! And may the West Side Story be with you...or I mean...whatever musical you might choose as a favourite...those things are my childhood, man.

I guess that sounds like I'm blowin' me own horn. But the fact is, I'm pissed and just about any punk record sounds really great right now.

Dude. Love you but you and me and the sauce need a trial separation,

hahahah you got it dude I know. I know. Oh god I know. But the sun is out today...and oh man...

Bimble, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that you didn't sleep, and just kept right on drinking, no?

I cannot tell a lie. But the music keeps going on and on and on and on and on and on and on

Do you know last night I dreamt I saw Rick James live? He was alive! And he only played a few songs and then he wanted money from me and I almost gave it to him, but I kept tearing up my checks I'd written..haha. He had a lot of beautiful women anyway, he didn't need me!

It was so nice to see him in a dream like that, though, really up close.

&