Do you have a low opinion of ILXors' intelligence?

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I do

― retarded and gay (bato), Sunday, 11 December 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

but, you are an ilxor

― Yawn (Wintermute), Sunday, 11 December 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)

But you're a shitty troll.

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Sunday, 11 December 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

"retarded and gay"

Smart and unhappy

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Sunday, 11 December 2005 15:02 (twenty years ago)

I think that describes the vast majority of us.

― Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Sunday, 11 December 2005 17:53 (twenty years ago)

Clearly destined for the 'Great Exchanges' thread:

Do you have a low opinion of ILXors' intelligence? (register)(forgotten login)
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I do
-- retarded and gay (bato12345678...), December 11th, 2005.

Answers
but, you are an ilxor
-- Yawn (...), December 11th, 2005.

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But you're a shitty troll.
-- ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!! (estebanbuttezsezfuckyoufirefo...), December 11th, 2005.

― ooh, Sunday, 11 December 2005 17:58 (twenty years ago)

ILXors sound smarter than I do.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 11 December 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

They will probably get a kick out of this Flash thing (and then say they didn't):
http://n.ethz.ch/student/mkos/pinguin.swf

― Fearless Dawg, Sunday, 11 December 2005 18:43 (twenty years ago)

you people have never seen an AOL message board, have you?

― gear (gear), Sunday, 11 December 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

They are all teenagers trying to be cool or very casual people trying to get laid. So they are pretty smart for acting appropriately.

― AOL MSGBRDZ, Sunday, 11 December 2005 19:18 (twenty years ago)

There are few ways to test the true intelligence of an ILxor, since ILx consists solely of words and digital pictures, making the posting of words and pictures the only ILxor activity one can observe. One can't be sure how well they navigate daily life or its challenges, where adaptive intelligence is more likely to be on display.

However, the typical ILxor is verbally dextrous. This is suggestive of mental dexterity - though inconclusively so. This gives one hope for the ability of an ILxor to achieve actual living results, when they are not engaged in ILx activities.

― Aimless (Aimless), Sunday, 11 December 2005 19:32 (twenty years ago)

i have a high opinion of ilxors' senses of humor.
i've never considered anyone's intelligence.
i've never seen an aol message board.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Sunday, 11 December 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)

Compared to the world population, I think they have an average intelligence conditioned by a typical education that demonstrates predictable results. The fact that they believe themselves to be so smart is what makes it so fun.
They will probably get a kick out of this Flash thing (and then say they didn't):
http://n.ethz.ch/student/mkos/pinguin.swf

-- Fearless Dawg (nofea...), December 11th, 2005

the highest I was able to get was 318.7

― retarded and gay (bato), Sunday, 11 December 2005 19:42 (twenty years ago)

no way? i can't hit past 220.3

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Sunday, 11 December 2005 19:45 (twenty years ago)

317.1

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 11 December 2005 19:53 (twenty years ago)

i don't think anyone on here is a real human being, just a computer

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Sunday, 11 December 2005 19:55 (twenty years ago)

Yes, but what's your high score?

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 11 December 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

BOOYAH 311.7

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Sunday, 11 December 2005 20:00 (twenty years ago)

320.5 AW YEAH!

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 11 December 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

Does anyone else feel the need to hti him early on, so he'll get projected in the air and land with his head in the snow, even tho having him slide gives you a better score?

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 11 December 2005 20:04 (twenty years ago)

the penguin is having all the fun. i feel bad for the yeti.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Sunday, 11 December 2005 20:11 (twenty years ago)

i don't read ilx for the "intelligence." but there are a couple of smart people around, which is a nice supplement to the googled images and bad puns. :-)

― thorstein veblen (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 11 December 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

320.9!

― Bidfurd (Bidfurd), Sunday, 11 December 2005 20:41 (twenty years ago)

274 first try!

307.3 high score so far.

― giboyeux (skowly), Sunday, 11 December 2005 20:48 (twenty years ago)

315.7 best so far.

― Falling down the stairs again (noodle vague), Sunday, 11 December 2005 20:56 (twenty years ago)

320.3

― Falling down the stairs again (noodle vague), Sunday, 11 December 2005 20:59 (twenty years ago)

320.9!

I'm seeing the penguin so big now.

― Falling down the stairs again (noodle vague), Sunday, 11 December 2005 21:07 (twenty years ago)

I really enjoyed that a couple of years ago, and still revisit it occasionally. I didn't record my highest score, sadly.

I haven't counted how many people have shown up here to say that ILXers are dum, or aren't as smart as they think, but I do know that not one of them has ever impressed me as being even medium-smart. Most of them strike me as not having the guts to risk finding out that they aren't terribly smart by doing more than blowing raspberries from the sidelines then running away.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 11 December 2005 21:19 (twenty years ago)

323.5

BOOYAAAAAHHHH!!!

― Falling down the stairs again (noodle vague), Sunday, 11 December 2005 21:21 (twenty years ago)

Hm. I swung 20 times, and got an average of 183.2, including four outright misses.

Highest score: 316.3
Lowest non-zero score: 145.8

― Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Sunday, 11 December 2005 21:36 (twenty years ago)

i don't down the intelligence of ILX, i doubt its social skills.

― Special Agent Gene Krupa (orion), Sunday, 11 December 2005 23:27 (twenty years ago)

I had an anonymous, Chicago area ILXor kindly come onto my livejournal a few weeks ago and post a reply to carsmilesteve that said they did not care for me because I am "minister of obtuse". Just charming.

So yes, there very much are some ILXors (and I'm talking long term regulars, because I know this person wasn't some flybynight shit) who have low regard for anyone like me who dares to admit they don't know it all, and like to fool around to blow off steam now and then.

I don't apologise for who I am at all, and to that person, and anyone else who think's I'm some thicko (and you know who you are), I hope I daily ruin ILX for you. With great delight.

― Trayce (trayce), Sunday, 11 December 2005 23:37 (twenty years ago)

311

― Sailor Kitten (g-kit), Monday, 12 December 2005 09:06 (twenty years ago)

316

― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 12 December 2005 09:46 (twenty years ago)

That was a lie. I haven't even clicked on the link yet, hahaha

― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 12 December 2005 09:46 (twenty years ago)

I am glad everyone ignored my outburst heh.

― Trayce (trayce), Monday, 12 December 2005 10:04 (twenty years ago)

325.1

― Last Of The Famous International Pfunkboys (Kerr), Monday, 12 December 2005 10:14 (twenty years ago)

Mulla Nasrudin used to stand in the street on market-days, to be
pointed out as an idiot.

No matter how often people offered him a large and a small coin, he
always chose the smaller piece.

One day a kindly man said to him, "Mulla, you should take the bigger coin. Then you will have more money and people will no longer be able to make a laughing-stock of you."

"That might be true," said Nasrudin, "but if I always take the larger,
people will stop offering me money to prove that I am more idiotic than they are. Then I would have no money at all."

― Mulla Nasrudin, Monday, 12 December 2005 14:23 (twenty years ago)

Ilx overall - Above average intelligence but not very smart. Me too.

― sunny successor (katharine), Monday, 12 December 2005 16:02 (twenty years ago)

I think the fact that our discussion of our collective intelligence degenerates into a Penguin-Thwacking scorecard says it all, really.

― Momus (Momus), Monday, 12 December 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

The ones I've met are (even) smarter in the flesh.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 December 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

but the scorecard shit is IRONIC, obv.

and just to lower the tone a little more: you can all suck my cock.

― Sailor Kitten (g-kit), Monday, 12 December 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)

yeah, along with the AOL msgboard, you folks ever been to IMDB or the Gamefaqs/IGN boards?

see here for IMDB genuisery:

Who would win between Goku and Superman?

― kingfish trampycakes (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 12 December 2005 16:22 (twenty years ago)

extremely low.

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

I think Momus is probably shite at thwacking penguins.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 12 December 2005 16:29 (twenty years ago)

Trayce, if someone called me "minister of the obtuse" I would assume that they were too stupid to figure out what I was talking about.

― Dan (Says It All, Really) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 December 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

Dan's words could've come from practically any ILXor, I would imagine. It seems people generally post from a perch of superiority. Nobody ever really LOSES an argument on ILX; they just cease to post on the thread where they've been pwned.

― Truthy Trutherton, Monday, 12 December 2005 16:35 (twenty years ago)

I think the fact that our discussion of our collective intelligence degenerates into a Penguin-Thwacking scorecard says it all, really.

So what's your high score then?

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Monday, 12 December 2005 16:47 (twenty years ago)

DING DING DING DING DING DING

― Dan (So So OTM) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 December 2005 17:09 (twenty years ago)

6757.98

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 12 December 2005 17:37 (twenty years ago)

317.1

Look in next month's Critical Inquiry for my article "Smart ou Barthes?: ILX, clitorinormativity, sexual radicalism in the ursa-poultrine community, and post-post-structuralist approaches to why I am smarter than you."

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 12 December 2005 17:54 (twenty years ago)

You mention dinosaurs, too, right? Because I hear WJT Mitchell likes dinosaurs.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 12 December 2005 17:59 (twenty years ago)

wtf? 293? me suxor.

― D.I.Y. U.N.K.L.E. (dave225.3), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:03 (twenty years ago)

I was so hoping you'd said "ursa-poutine" because I was going to go "DJ GRIZZ, BXTCH!" and throw signs.

― Dan (GRIZZ!) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

It's fun getting the penguin to go really high and then nose dive at around the 200 mark. My best is 311.3.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

people who withdraw from an argument don't necessarily do so because they feel they;ve lost

anyway, the answer is all or nearly all ilxors are of above average intelligence when compared to the population at large, and many are subtantially above average. there are a few people here who are superior in one or another form of intelligence, but i don't think there are any major geniuses.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:15 (twenty years ago)

Dude, both Sinker and Skidmore are scary genius types!

― Dan (Envious) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

13-yr old aja had the intelligence level of a man in his 40s!

― 116%, Monday, 12 December 2005 18:19 (twenty years ago)

But that man was Corky from "Life Goes On".

― Dan (Full Disclosure) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

I don't understand this "population at large" nonsense.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:23 (twenty years ago)

they mean people dumber than them, its circular logic

― 147%, Monday, 12 December 2005 18:24 (twenty years ago)

It's "Group Think" "Risky Shift" wahoo!

320.2 is now my highest.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

I don't understand this "population at large" nonsense

actually I should say, as compared to others of the same nationality and age cohort.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

rephrasing it to sound more specific doesn't change the fact that Ethan is OTM about the way it's being used here.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

Someone needs to a proper evidence based study. Anecdotal evidence simply won't do.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

i wish the yeti could adjust the windup, angle, bat speed, etc. i'd like to hit the penguin at a low, straight angle but with great force, so he can glide as far as we can lob him. also, he should say 'wee' right up until he stops.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:32 (twenty years ago)

Personally, I'm wondering how strong the correlation is between ILXors and mental illness.

― Dan (I Suspect It's Pretty High) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:33 (twenty years ago)

alright - 323.5. I'm done.

― D.I.Y. U.N.K.L.E. (dave225.3), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:34 (twenty years ago)

for example...

are there any Americans on ILX who scored below the 75th percentile on the Scholastic Aptitude Test? how many scored above the 90th? above the 95th? does someone want to argue that the population from the same age cohort who did not take the test would, if they took the test, substantially throw off the curve?

you can argue about what kind of intelligence the test measures, or how well it measures it, but the test is considered at the very least useful by the vast majority of institutions of higher learning in measuring 'intelligence'

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:35 (twenty years ago)

well youd also have to include being within the economic class that allows you to fuck around on the internet all day

― 137%, Monday, 12 December 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

i'm not sure what that means

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:40 (twenty years ago)

you really dont understand that people who can afford computers and endless leisure time arguing about punctuation tend to score better on standardized tests?

― 217%, Monday, 12 December 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

the question, of course, asks about individual ilxors' opinions of ilxors' collective intelligence. which could refer to either 1) how one sees others' intelligence in comparison to their own, or 2) how one sees others' intelligence through the lens of their own.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:44 (twenty years ago)

well yeah but there seems to be this collective self-delusion that 20-somethings who use ilx to talk about donny darko & flirt with each other are somehow inherently superior to other 20-somethings who use the real world to talk about donny darko & flirt with each other

― 473%, Monday, 12 December 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

To be honest I have this scary suspicion that most of ILX's brainpower is currently wasting itself on I Love Comics.

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

Well I might as well die right now.

― Dan (So Fucking Old) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

are there any Americans on ILX who scored below the 75th percentile on the Scholastic Aptitude Test?

Overall or can we break it down into its two components? If so, you're speaking to one of 'em. What about SATIIs? Or furrrreners?

xpost ethan is OTM, that's the point I'm making. Why people have, for we're taking 15 years now, decided that being able to get on AOL or Earthlink and make their way past MSNBC.com and MTV.com somehow makes a person a genius (or at least "smarter than average") is beyond me cos there are, like, 20 million of those types of people now. Prolly more!

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

Personally, I'm wondering how strong the correlation is between ILXors and mental illness.

Me too.

― Lars and Jagger (Ex Leon), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)

it's not really 'mental illness' if you're on meds.

right?

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

none of you are geniuses!
none of you are insane!*
none of you are special at all!
you're all NORMAL and ORDINARY!
it's true. the sooner everyone realizes this the better!
also I'm brad pitt!

*well ok that's not true.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 18:56 (twenty years ago)

you really dont understand that people who can afford computers and endless leisure time arguing about punctuation tend to score better on standardized tests?

are you arguing that poorer people are stupider? i question the assumption that there is a major class-based distinction regarding computer access and endless leisure time. surely there is lesser access to computers the lesser the economic means, and a significant difference in access between the poorest and richeset quintiles, but is there no access once you go below the 50% mark? and what about unfettered computer access exactly makes people smarter? some posit that it's the reverse. also, is there really a major difference in leisure time for 17-18 year olds, based upon class? or does the leisure-time distinction come into play only after the computer-access distinction does?

anyway, even if i stipulate to the broader point about class (which i do), it doesn't change my conclusion. assume that all classes had equal access to learning materials and environments. surely this would have some effect upon percentile scoring on standardized tests, but even if you assumed a substantial effect, i think it's reasonable to assume that those now scoring in the 95th percentile would still be above 85-90, and those in the 75th would still be above 50.

xpost:

If so, you're speaking to one of 'em.

did you take it before you graduated? substantially after leaving school? i'd probably score pretty low right now given the math i don't remember.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:01 (twenty years ago)

admittedly, computer&net access at most class levels is a very recent phenomenon

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:09 (twenty years ago)

well youd also have to include being within the economic class that allows you to fuck around on the internet all day

like what, administrative assistants who make $28,000 a year?

― Penis, NV (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:12 (twenty years ago)

omg could there be ppl in america who make less than $28k a year?!

― 783%, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:14 (twenty years ago)

gabbneb, responding to this thread question this way is seriously offsetting whatever claims you might make based on your SAT scores or whatever!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:14 (twenty years ago)

yeah, lots of 'em. what's your point? (xpost)

― Penis, NV (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:14 (twenty years ago)

never mind, don't answer that. your point is that poor people are more noble, or something.

― Penis, NV (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)

i dont wanna get into ilx class warfare again but $28k a year is significantly more than me or anybody in my family makes

― 783%, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)

many of which are middle aged and with families to support, not 28 year old college students

― 477%, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:16 (twenty years ago)

salaries being higher in places where rent is more expensive shockah

― Penis, NV (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

yeah thats a good point too, rural south carolina isnt nyc

― 476%, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:18 (twenty years ago)

but really you do understand the difference being making $28k a year fucking around on ilx all day and making $11k a year at mcdonalds with 2 kids to support

― 476%, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:19 (twenty years ago)

and i have the luxury now of being much closer to the former than the latter

― 36%, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:20 (twenty years ago)

actually, maybe i'm wrong here - is it valid to assume that the population that takes the SAT is significantly large enough to be a sufficiently representative sample of the population at large, even though it's a minority (right?)? i don't know enough about this stuff.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:22 (twenty years ago)

Any high opinion I have of ILXors' intelligence is usually undercut by their unfortunate tendancy to fuck a rotting horse carcass in the ass.

― Dan (Please Let's Have The Exact Same Argument For The 5000th Time) Perry (Dan P, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:22 (twenty years ago)

dan is otm.

― Penis, NV (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:23 (twenty years ago)

but really you do understand the difference being making $28k a year fucking around on ilx all day and making $11k a year at mcdonalds with 2 kids to support

i'm not 100% sympathetic to the latter case (although i really do understand about the lack of employment options in some areas of the country). but i'll shut up because i don't wanna be interpreted as some kinda asshole libertarian.

― Penis, NV (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:27 (twenty years ago)

but really you do understand the difference being making $28k a year fucking around on ilx all day and making $11k a year at mcdonalds with 2 kids to support

of course we understand the difference. we don't understand the relevance.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:29 (twenty years ago)

you dont understand why people with more access to education tend to do better when education is tested?

― 456%, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:32 (twenty years ago)

Dude, both Sinker and Skidmore are scary genius types!

Fucking hell, I do not REMOTELY warrant being bracketed with Sinkah there! There are a whole bunch of people (easily into double figures) on here who I'd confidently put well above me in intelligence, and probably a whole load more if I knew them well enough to know.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:32 (twenty years ago)

when i was in h.s. i knew smarty pants kids whose parents hired them private tutors and enrolled them in college courses on how to "ace" the SATs

― 456%, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:33 (twenty years ago)

Dude, this really should not turn into any kind of fight: I think we all know what the truth is here, and any kind of argument over it is just gonna amount to some people overemphasizing one side of that truth in reaction to their thinking other people are overemphasizing the other side of it. The uninflected truth: ILXors as a whole probably would rate ever-so-slightly above average in a bunch of vaguely "academic" terms (test scores, educational attainment, knowledge base, vocabulary, etc.), but these things have as much to do with class and lifestyle as they do with any sort of raw intelligence, and as such ILXors aren't necessarily notably smarter, in either of those terms, than whatever similarly-classed similarly-educated types would make up their cohorts / peers. That still raises a whole bunch of additional questions, but it seems like the fairest way of putting it.

What I would say probably distinguishes a lot of ILXors from their peers would be some form of "geekiness," in good terms -- for obvious reasons, there's a much higher-than-average contingent here of people who like acquiring lots of knowledge about stuff they're interested in, or digging into and arguing matters of taste / morals / politics on a wordier level than most people really care to. This doesn't really have to do with raw intelligence, either, but it's the kind of thing people are often talking about when they say someone is "smart."

There are plenty of people here who I think are really remarkably intelligent. There are people here who impress me with how much they've learned about particular topics, or how well they can think about them. There are people here who strike me as having a really good general knowledge/education, and a really good ability to synthesize all that knowledge and bring it to bear on whatever random thing we're talking about. In those terms I have a high opinion of ILXors' intelligence -- which means not thinking they're all smarter than other people, or that the board deserves a medal, but just thinking that on the right threads this place contains lots of people who will seem to me to have good, interesting, or even challenging ideas, ones I wouldn't come up with on my own. This isn't "smart" like awarding prizes; it's "smart" like thinking some of your friends are bright people and you like what they have to say.

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:34 (twenty years ago)

nabisco intelligently OTM

― 1746%, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

Martin, take a compliment! Sheesh.

― Dan (Some People) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)

I used to ~~think I was~~ be smart, until I started hanging around here.

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000JT77.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.gif

― Dan (K/L Before ILX) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

you dont understand why people with more access to education tend to do better when education is tested?

how many people taking the SAT are "making $11k a year at mcdonalds with 2 kids to support" (let alone "making $28k a year fucking around on ilx all day")?

even if there are lots, so what? if you agree that 'education' correlates to 'intelligence', then you agree with me. if you don't, attack that proposition. but the point is a non-sequitur as it stands.

i mean, are we pretending that someone's intelligence refers to some metaphysical innate aptitude, however unhoned or untested? in that respect, all human beings are of at least roughly the same intelligence, and it's useless to make any distinction.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

seriously, why are you stuck on this asinine point about the SATs?

Though "it's useless to make any distinction" is a lot closer to the point I was making.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:41 (twenty years ago)

I was all het up about my SAT score until I got to college. Now that they've changed the test beyond all recognition my score is meaningless. THANK GOD I'M NOT IN SCHOOL.

― Dan (Yay Arbitrary Metrics) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:43 (twenty years ago)

i make less than $28k per year, in nyc. : (

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:43 (twenty years ago)

you can live like a fucking king in baltimore on the $30-35k range, provided you have no qualms about living here. gentrification pioneers, baby.

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:46 (twenty years ago)

my point really just boils down to the fact that i dont feel ilx as a whole is more intelligent than my co-workers or people i ride with on the train every day

― 176%, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:46 (twenty years ago)

and the fiction that it is seems to mostly be perpetuated by people who hold no real interest in contributing intelligent discussion to it but want to legitimize their banality by having it on the smart people messageboard

― 447%, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:47 (twenty years ago)

i've posted elsewhere that i don't see myself as belonging to a very high intelligence bracket. it's just that i find a lot of other people are profoundly dumb -- bad, lazy thinkers with virtually no innate critical skills and very little curiosity about the world.

― Penis, NV (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

since when are critical skills innate?

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:55 (twenty years ago)

actually, I just realized the partly incoherent part of my argument - if you assume that intelligence is based upon the actual brain, as active entity, 5-15 year old SAT scores aren't necessarily a good measure of what ILxors have done since then (obv)

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:56 (twenty years ago)

But they think they are so smart and that is what makes it so fun. YES?!?!

― Ruth Huxtable, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:56 (twenty years ago)

since when are critical skills innate?

just basic instinctual stuff on par with "if i don't breathe, i'll die."

― Penis, NV (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

you dont grade on a curve?

― 44%, Monday, 12 December 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

I'm so sick of average threads becoming vehicles for even duller almost meta arguments.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

i prefer to feel that i legitimize the banality of OTHERS, and they in turn legitimize mine

what is $28k in real money?

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 12 December 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

depends on the cola

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

mark you can legitimize my banality anytime

― 5435%, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

The proof of the pudding is in the pub quiz, my friends: http://www.rockysullivans.com/pubquiz.htm

NYC/JBR: if you start reading up now, you've got plenty of time to get into shape for January quizzing.

― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

what is $28k in real money?

depends on where ya live.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

Total sub-issue, gabbneb, but: you know they can give raw-aptitude IQ-type tests starting pretty much at birth? And kids come out different, but then again even that's not a pure measure; stuff like your mother's diet and/or possible crack consumption or whatever will have an effect on your brain development.

But no, even among adults, it is kinda dangerous to give up and call the usual academic-achievement stuff the definition of "smart"; there really are loads of people who haven't gone far in that arena but have obvious intelligence in other ways. Most of the examples we use for that seem kinda loaded with class issues to begin with ("he's so good with machines!"), but really: there are people everywhere with incredible spatial reasoning, or serious aptitude with language and dialect, or really intuitive engineering-type abilities, or incredible skills in manipulating people / business -- all types of "intelligence" you can use to get ahead outside of the traditional academic routes.

It's actually more interesting to think about what people mean when they say "smart" in everyday life, which is some combination of (a) learns stuff easily, (b) knows a lot of different things about the world, and (c) can analyze and rearrange that knowledge in interesting ways. (I guess I actually would imagine that a decent number of ILXors were considered smart in, say, their high schools, on basically those terms.)

xpost
Ethan, part of the issue here might be thinking about different threads, no? The ones that are just picture-posts and sex jokes really do feel fairly average -- they look like your average college-kid message board, which is totally fine by me. But there are (or at least used to be) threads where, I have to admit, the level of discussion would be approaching that of the Ivy League grad-school "elite" I'm supposedly surrounded by. I mean, we do have (e.g.) philosophy Ph.D.s on the board; there are snippets of talk that get up there. Much rarer now, but this might be the sort of stuff people are talking about when they think of moments where ILX has seemed particularly "smart."

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

ie. my < $28k per year is even less thanks to having to pay more taxes because i live/work in nyc.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

ronan otm

― 323%, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

Oh hahaha yeah right this is a "meta" discussion: y'all know damned well that "ILX" in this system is a stand-in for something way larger and more complicated!

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:07 (twenty years ago)

But no, even among adults, it is kinda dangerous to give up and call the usual academic-achievement stuff the definition of "smart";

of course. i qualified, from the first, with the idea of different kinds of intelligence, and the mere utility of the measure. but isn't the academic-achievement stuff more relevant than other kinds of intelligence (ok, maybe not more relevant than 'emotional intelligence' etc.) to what we do here on ILX?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:11 (twenty years ago)

a) no

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

being funny isn't related to academic achievement!

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

magna cum custos

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

That's totally begging the question, dude! You're saying the "academic" is the only relevant kind of intelligence because, umm, it's the one we presumably have here? ILXors are smart because they're good at being on ILX???

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

That brings to mind images that I'd just rather not explore.

x-post

― Lars and Jagger (Ex Leon), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

stop excelsior syndroming mark

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

i didnt post that "ronan otm" btw

― 475%, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

(Mark might be onto something: I think my whole broad-knowledge-base + liking-to-reorganize-that-knowledge-in-your-head thing above is the prime character trait necessary for creating and appreciating AWFUL PUNS!)

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

E.g. I wasn't "smart" enough to get the old Flora Purim / Joao Pesach joke.

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

haha i know you could see the gears turn as he rejected 'magna cum laude custos' for a more succint result

― 736%, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

vanity has nothing to do with academic achievement.

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

i didnt post that "ronan otm" btw

-- 475% (763...), December 12th, 2005.

Confusion is the preferred strategy of the ILX tosser.

― Richie Cunningham, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

magna cum custos

...my darling.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

hey ned youre an ile mod right, can you out this asshole impersonating me? i suspect its the same dude who registers every new username i come up with so i cant post with it

― 545%, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:24 (twenty years ago)

oh please hataz i got there in one go

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:25 (twenty years ago)

gears wd have been a difft (better) name than custos

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:26 (twenty years ago)

i loved geir's skit about the uk rock critics who wont put paul mccartney on their end-of-the-year list because hes too old

― 376%, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:27 (twenty years ago)

i gots ta know

― gear (gear), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:27 (twenty years ago)

hey ned youre an ile mod right, can you out this asshole impersonating me? i suspect its the same dude who registers every new username i come up with so i cant post with it

Happens to me, too, which is why I just use a different name every time. I forget the loser's name, but he generally only starts doing it when he is losing a debate. Perhaps there is more than one loser who resorts to this "confusion" strategy. It's pretty funny and a good indication that you've already won.

― Richie Cunningham, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:28 (twenty years ago)

I generally think ILXors are rather clever, though cranky as shit.

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:30 (twenty years ago)

wait sorry are you some 38 yr old indie rock dude still mad cuz called you racist like 4 years ago or just nude spock?

― 483%, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:31 (twenty years ago)

I generally think ILXors are rather clever, though cranky as shit.

IOW, not smart enough to know better.

― Saliva Gland, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:32 (twenty years ago)

wait sorry are you some 38 yr old indie rock dude still mad cuz called you racist like 4 years ago or just nude spock?

Coherently next time, please.

― What You Say, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:33 (twenty years ago)

internet trolls will one day rule us all

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:34 (twenty years ago)

For fuck's sake can you guys just stop replying to him?

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:35 (twenty years ago)

mine was more of a general lament

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:36 (twenty years ago)

http://www.lichtensteiger.de/Images/lamentations.jpg

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:36 (twenty years ago)

"guys" was more of a general admonishment. This is totally like sub-sub-the other day when "anonymous" went on the home delivery people thread and started mewling about "black bitches"!

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:37 (twenty years ago)

that was rumpie.

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:39 (twenty years ago)

Right. As opposed to "tough chulos."

The last reply I got on this thread was the penguin scores. Don't confuse me with the other anonymouses, sweettits.

― Richie Cunningham, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:39 (twenty years ago)

(and I only say that because it is demeaning and sexist, not because I actually think you have sweet tits)

― Richie Cunningham, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:40 (twenty years ago)

I've decided to renounce ILX and QB the Bears.

― gear (gear), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:40 (twenty years ago)

wank wank wank

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:41 (twenty years ago)

screen passes to Muhammed, pitches to TJ, let them do the rest

― gear (gear), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:41 (twenty years ago)

The Bears are doing ok without you though, you might consider a different team as more likely to accept you right off the streets? Like Green Bay?

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:41 (twenty years ago)

OK with KO, great with gear

― gear (gear), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:42 (twenty years ago)

Would you consider Buffalo?

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:43 (twenty years ago)

too close to canada

― gear (gear), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

JP Loseman needs benching though

― gear (gear), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

Buffalo should go after Kitna

― gear (gear), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:45 (twenty years ago)

If I was going to give it all up to become an NFL quarterback, I think I'd go with San Francisco, or Oakland.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:45 (twenty years ago)

(gear i wasn't gettin at you)

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:45 (twenty years ago)

btw jess that rumpie thing made me laugh a lot.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:46 (twenty years ago)

hey ned youre an ile mod right

Alas no, just ILM.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:47 (twenty years ago)

http://www.musicobsession.com/Pictures/d/m/dmx350132.jpg

― 43736%, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:47 (twenty years ago)

after she posted all that she got so worked up she shit her pants

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:49 (twenty years ago)

I was wondering when the next image would appear. That sure was great.

― 76% Uncertain, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:49 (twenty years ago)

oh shit it really is nude spock

― 4534%, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:50 (twenty years ago)

just kill yourself dude

― 4534%, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:51 (twenty years ago)

Isn't basil just a type of lettuce anyway?!

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:51 (twenty years ago)

http://www.huafei.com.cn/images/logos/fubu.GIF http://www.davidduke.com/images/russian-girls_sm.jpg

― 863%, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:53 (twenty years ago)

"It" really "is" nude spock? "Which" "is" "it"? Just douching around with guessing games now?

http://www.filmthreat.com/UploadImages/leonardnimoy02story.jpg

BTW, I have driven at least one person to suicide in my life, but it wasn't me!

― 76% Uncertain, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:55 (twenty years ago)

this is why i rule ilm with an iron fist

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:56 (twenty years ago)

There is no way those girls' haircolor is natural.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:56 (twenty years ago)

Well, you're not very broadly cultured, are you?

― Little Blond Girls, Monday, 12 December 2005 21:00 (twenty years ago)

Hi guys :D

― Yawn (Wintermute), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:03 (twenty years ago)

can someone link me another cute and fun wintertime game? i've almost tired of this penguin one.

almost.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:04 (twenty years ago)

Yo Wintermute, what up?

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:07 (twenty years ago)

a) no

so what form of intelligence is more relevant to what we do here?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:09 (twenty years ago)

emotional, social, etc? Academic intelligence doesn't really get you very far in learning how to react and interplay with other human beings. You can post some pretty learned and studied shit and be a pretty sharp dude and come off like a SAT-obsessed wankfest. Ha ha ha, see what I did there?

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:11 (twenty years ago)

can someone link me another cute and fun wintertime game? i've almost tired of this penguin one.

almost.

I had one about sledding through hoops of fire, but it wasn't nearly as cute. Although, it did have more of a point to it.

― Fearless Dawg, Monday, 12 December 2005 21:11 (twenty years ago)

i've also noticed that, online, any argument can be settled by saying "like you're an expert in anything except masturbation" which, come to think of it, i DID learn in school!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:12 (twenty years ago)

online, any argument can be settled by saying "like you're an expert in anything except masturbation!"

which actually, come to think of it, i did learn in school.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:16 (twenty years ago)

"I had one about sledding through hoops of fire, but it wasn't nearly as cute. Although, it did have more of a point to it."

is that the johnny cash role-playing game?
m.

― msp (mspa), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:17 (twenty years ago)

that came out wrong in so many ways.

xpost

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:17 (twenty years ago)

I did feel flattered, Dan, and sorry to seem ungracious. It would be hard to accept it on a thread where Nabisco is present, to offer one example of why I needed to say what I did.

I think he underestimates the average intelligence here - I work with computer professionals, with all the class and education advantages he rightly discusses here, and I think the average intelligence of people I've got to know tolerably well from ILX is significantly higher than that of my colleagues or the people I was at uni with. But this is all a matter of opinion - even if we had everyone's IQ scores, we all know how little that tells us. Also, I think I've got to know a non-typical slice of ILX, which probably distorts matters too.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:18 (twenty years ago)

emotional, social, etc?

well yeah, I had recognized same above, so I understood Tracer (and nabisco?) to be referring to something else

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:20 (twenty years ago)

http://www.wedu.com/sledrun/index.php

Please don't tell me to kill myself. I shall have to refrain from being the sole source of entertainment on an otherwise worthless thread.

― Fearless Dawg, Monday, 12 December 2005 21:22 (twenty years ago)

i think it's the amount of time you devote to yr zingers that makes you so hilarious mr dawg

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:25 (twenty years ago)

i kiss mr dawg.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:26 (twenty years ago)

i think it's the amount of time you devote to yr zingers that makes you so hilarious mr dawg

You mean, almost thoughtless instantaneous responses?

― Fearless Dawg, Monday, 12 December 2005 21:27 (twenty years ago)

I won. Now what? (I do like, though, that you can crisp a certain number of sled passengers as long as the bulk get through.)

Erm, XXXP

― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:27 (twenty years ago)

gabbneb, you mentioned such and then proceeded to state that surely the most relevant and important one was X (and thusly by implication not Y or Z). Surely you can understand the "confusion."

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:30 (twenty years ago)

If I didn't think you guys were intelligent, I wouldn't be wasting my time here, but if you were really intelligent, you wouldn't be wasting your time here.

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:32 (twenty years ago)

If you have the volume up you get to hear them scream, clunk their heads and get singed, too.

― Fearless Dawg, Monday, 12 December 2005 21:32 (twenty years ago)

well, i was talking about what we "do," aspirationally, i.e. beyond the meta of socializing, but that's just me, i guess

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:32 (twenty years ago)

Oh this is fucking asinine.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:33 (twenty years ago)

haha i got called asinine when i tried contributing to a comments thread on a grown-up blog far away from here! that's why i'm back!! advanced genius is situational AT BEST

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:35 (twenty years ago)

I mean, way to misunderstand exactly what I just said with the socializing brush off, dude. I am accusing you of being completely unable to actually "do" what you "aspire" to "do" because you are awash in academic intelligence but come off as lacking in the other two very regularly on ILX political threads! Hence, academic intelligence not being more "important" than the others in terms of being able to hold an academic/political/social/musical/sports/etc debate but rather all being equally important and round and round we go back to my original point that the distinctions of intelligence here everyone's making to pat ILX on the back for being Real Genius are all useless horsecrap.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:36 (twenty years ago)

I only managed to get the sled through unburned in the bonus round!

― Yawn (Wintermute), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:36 (twenty years ago)

I don't even like video games, there is possibly something wrong with me since everyone else likes these online flash things.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:36 (twenty years ago)

Oh, I thought when Ally said, "Ha ha ha, see what I did there?" she was referring to her inability to react and interplay with other human beings.

― 76% Uncertain, Monday, 12 December 2005 21:38 (twenty years ago)

I DON'T GOT BOOK SMARTS BUT I GOT STREET SMARTS.

― n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:39 (twenty years ago)

27 minutes!!

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:40 (twenty years ago)

maybe shes alienated by her boyfriends resemblance to jared from subway

― 746%, Monday, 12 December 2005 21:40 (twenty years ago)

well, i was talking about what we "do,"

http://www.electrovoice.com/Electrovoice3/features.nsf/0/EF8068D3DF9596C086256FD30076056F/$file/gary_shout_250.jpg?openelement
We do wie du

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:40 (twenty years ago)

I DON'T GOT BOOK SMARTS BUT I GOT STREET SMARTS.

― n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:41 (twenty years ago)

i'm working on super-overshooting the sled, to see if i can get the pusher to slide far enough down the jump to fall off.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

ally is dating jared from subway?

― dabnis coleman's ghost (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

he knows about computers

― 736%, Monday, 12 December 2005 21:44 (twenty years ago)

IS THAT WHAT THEY'RE TEACHING YOU IN THAT COLLEGE OF YOURS?

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:44 (twenty years ago)

27 minutes!!

I tried to post that before but ILX was clogged, so I didn't bother. In reality, it was like 0-1 minute.

ally is dating jared from subway?

She wishes.

― 76% Uncertain, Monday, 12 December 2005 21:44 (twenty years ago)

woody harrelson, you meant, i think

come off as lacking in the other two very regularly on ILX political threads!

most of my arguing on ILX political threads is with a very limited range of people who I consider chronically unreasonable and my mode of responsive argumentation is intentionally unreasonable/over-the-top to match and illustrate.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:44 (twenty years ago)

does your book about the internet ever get finished

― 447%, Monday, 12 December 2005 21:45 (twenty years ago)

will meat for millar get its own chapter?

― 45t3%, Monday, 12 December 2005 21:46 (twenty years ago)

It will get a chapter in the great slash fiction novel in his mind.

― Lars and Jagger (Ex Leon), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:47 (twenty years ago)

well, yes and no

― Will the original percenter please stand up?, Monday, 12 December 2005 21:48 (twenty years ago)

hi nicole!

― 736%, Monday, 12 December 2005 21:48 (twenty years ago)

guys, seriously, can we just ignore this person? He's not even got the entertainment value of Orbit or Geir.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:49 (twenty years ago)

though the weird fixation he's developed on Tom is kind of charming, in a retard kind of way.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:50 (twenty years ago)

Speaking about me is just as good as a reply, my love.

― Zolton Herself, Monday, 12 December 2005 21:51 (twenty years ago)

seven years pass...

so what form of intelligence is more relevant to what we do here?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:09 (7 years ago)

― there is no special cathexis with mini fried donuts (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Friday, 17 May 2013 02:44 (thirteen years ago)

(thinks hard)

(look of intense concentration dissolves into a pout)

(pout morphs into a vacant stare)

(mouth drops open)

(falls asleep)

(smiles sweetly and makes sucking motions with lips)

― Aimless, Friday, 17 May 2013 04:21 (thirteen years ago)

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