Liverpool will win the premiership 2006/07

I thought Ilx automagically informed you when you messed up yr html?!

To no avail.

maybe a power mad moderator will correct the thread title as well ;)

That was I was unable to stop a Liverpool victory despite influence in two areas is no surprise. This is what it feels like to be me.

Of course, this relies on Chelsea fucking it up. If rumours are correct, Mourinho's out the door if he doesn't win the Champions League this season. I think they might concentrate on that tournament - the signs were there they were being found out, Arsenal-style, in the Premiership in the latter part of last season. Teams were working out how to beat them. Attempting to play Ballack and Lampard at once may unbalance the side, Lampard might still be rubbish after the World Cup and I still predict Shevchenko will be a flop upfront (Eastern European striker rule + Chelsea striker rule).

Dean Ashton will score twenty something goals this season. Darren Bent will manage about eight. Boro or Wigan to go down. Spurs to finish fifth AGAIN.

David O'Leary: 2/1
Stuart Pearce: 4/1
Harry Redknapp: 6/1
Chris Coleman: 7/1
Paul Jewell: 16/1
Neil Warnock: 16/1
Iain Dowie: 16/1
Alan Pardew: 16/1
Glenn Roeder: 20/1
David Moyes: 20/1
Steve Coppell: 25/1
Sam Allardyce: 25/1
Adrian Boothroyd: 25/1
Martin Jol: 25/1
Gareth Southgate: 33/1
Mark Hughes: 40/1
Alex Ferguson: 40/1
Rafael Benitez: 50/1
Arsene Wenger: 50/1
Jose Mourinho: 66/1

Value in there?

I think Villa will do reasonably well this year. They looks set to rretain the title of Kings of the Midlands.

I like that there are two Evertons, like Booker T and the MGs. You either got Booker T or Isaac Hayes. Imagine that.

Bill Howell, a journalist with the Birmingham Mail newspaper, told radio station talkSPORT on Saturday that the statement actually came from one player only.

Issued on Friday, it read: "The chairman should be behind the club and not working against what we're trying to achieve.

"There've been a series of cutbacks and we feel we have to mention this because they are now starting to affect us.

"People talk about Aston Villa being a big club and winning the European Cup in 1982.

"We feel it should be a big club but if the chairman has got ambition, he needs to start showing it. It has to come from the top.

"So many other clubs are doing so much to show their ambition apart from us. As players we're all ambitious and we want to improve on last season.

"At the end of last season, the chairman refused to pay £300 for the pitches to be watered. The training ground development, which we were all looking forward to working in, has stopped.

"Now we have lost a masseur because the club refuse to pay for one and are clubbing together to pay for our own.

"We have also heard that the physio, who was on his way to see Martin Laursen, could not claim back for a cup of coffee at the airport.

"We've had no explanation for the cutbacks and we feel if the manager (David O'Leary) can't get one, then we have no chance.

"Maybe the chairman thought he would have left by now because of the takeover. Supporters are concerned with what happens on the pitch and rightly so.

"But we feel with all the cutbacks, it is difficult to attain the targets we all share.

"There are no positives coming out of the club. We need to see a plan where the club is going and all the players feel the same. Every penny is being watched."

Man Utd are an unknown quantity this season - there's a real feeling of faded grandeur about them. They're not really in the top tier of European football when it comes to pulling in the big names, they still have no midfield to speak of, although the Rooney-Ronaldo thing could be interesting. Both players will really have something to prove this season.

I have no idea what's going to happen to Everton or Man City, at all.

last season i was 99% sure chelsea would win it, this season i am 95% sure

That's exactly how I feel. Last season I was certain Chelsea would win, and by late September so was pretty much everyone else. This season I feel they're the overwhelming favourites, but I don't think they'll dominate to quite the same ridiculous extent.

I'll go on record now: Liverpool won't win the fucking premiership 2006/07. If they do, I Dave B will run naked around Anfield.

1. Liverpool
2. Chelsea
3. Arsenal
4. Man Utd
5. Tottenham
6. West Ham
7. Everton
8. Bolton
9. Newcastle
10. Man City
11. Portsmouth
12. Blackburn
13. Charlton
14. Watford
15. Sheffield United
16. Aston Villa
17. Wigan
18. Middlesbrough
19. Fulham
20. Reading

Man City will struggle, they've signed Dickov haven't they?

1. Chelsea
2. Manchester Utd
3. Arsenal
4. Tottenham
5. Liverpool
6. Bolton
7. Blackburn
8. Newcastle
9. Everton
10. West Ham
11. Portsmouth
12. Wigan
13. Charlton
14. Middlesbrough
15. Reading
16. Aston Villa
17. Manchester City
18. Sheffield United
19. Fulham
20. Watford

Nothing, it's entirely arbitrary. I still have a feeling about Watford though.

1. Arsenal (a late surge from the kiddies)
2. Man Utd (top at Xmas, top at Easter, then...Rooney suspension)
3. Chelsea (Jose M sacked in March following last 16 CL exit and 8pts off Prem pace)
4. Spurs
5. Everton
6. Liverpool
7. Man City
8. Blackburn
9. Newcastle
10. Bolton
11. West Ham
12. Fulham
13. Villa (in bottom three at Xmas)
14. Charlton
15. Reading (early leaders - top until early Oct)
16. Boro
17. Wigan
18. Sheff Utd
19. Portsmouth (bye!)
20. Watford

None of the Italian superstars will come to England.

1. Everton
2.-19. bunch of woollyback no-marks
20. Redshite

However, I think Jose could well walk next season for reasons stated by Jamie, ie PROUDNESS.

Re: Signings - last season we relied too much on Lamps, hence our faltering end of season when Lamps started playing shit. Jose's realised we need more players who can shape and win a game, hence Ballack & Shev. So there's thinking behind it, it's not just Roman kneejerk big name desire. Am intrigued how they are all going to fit in, but i don't think this is a galactico thing (and even if it is, wasn't galactico pretty successful until they sold Maka?).

man city are blatantly going down - and because that feels so true right now, i wouldn't be surprised if they do okay .i agree with matt dc that reading will do worst out of the 3 promoted teams - it's the way.

also think ppl are being harsh on middlesboro (just cos of southgate? why?) and fulham, although i do wish coleman would SIGN ONE CENTRE BACK, ARE U BLIND MAN!!

finally, wigan and bolton perturb me. they seem to have a negative, thwarted feeling about themselves right now.

1. Chelsea [another title]
2. Liverpool [will improve in terms of final points and leapfrog over Manchester United to become the premier North West club.]
3. Arsenal [another season of younger players gaining experience, can they improve their away form? yes, can reclaim a top 3 position? ]
4. Man Utd [they need to improve their midfield, also Van HorseHead is off to Real Madrid? Will they replace him with Torres? or Tevez? or even Defoe?]
5. Tottenham [another solid season, Tottenham have an impressive squad but can they find the right starting 11 to blend as an formidable first team] Another UEFA CUP qualifying position

UEFA CUP & TOP 10/ TOP HALF of THE TABLE FINISHERS

6. Blackburn [can they score enough goals now that Bellamy has gone, however they are a tough organized side to play against.]
7. West Ham [another good finish, Pardew could be the best English manager in the premiership in terms of achievement come the end of 2006/ 2007 season.]
8. Newcastle [they need to bring in 2 quality strikers. If these don't arrive it could be another frustrating season of nothingness for the Geordies]
9.Bolton [Big Sam is hurt that he didn't get the England job, has he achieved all he can at Bolton?]
10. Middlesbrough [Can Southgate blend local youths, experience, foreigners and bring 2/3 quality new signings, particularly in central defence plus a creative attacking imposing midfielder to play alongside Lee Cattermole]

Top of the Lower Half of the Table Comfort Zone

11. Portsmouth [* only if 5 or 6 quality new signings arrive. By the end of August I will make a reassessment. The money is available apparently for quality new signings, but it's proving difficult to find the right quality of player.

However rewind 12 months to last summer when pompey under Zajec and Perrin signed numerous sub standard players that plunged pompey into the relegation zone. It's crucial that the right quality of player arrives this summer.

However I hope that Brian Priske stays, apparently now that Glen Johnson has arrived, he is surplus to requirements. Many Pompey fans are shocked that Redknapp is willing to off load him. Priske could play on the right side of midfield in front of Glen Johnson.]

12. Everton [will their expensive strikeforce hit it off? or not? can they achieve consistency? Is Lescott worth all that money?]
13. Man City [Manchester City are hit or miss, not good enough for a top 10 position but comfortable enough not to get dragged into a relegation scrap]
14. Charlton [will slip a bit this season, as they adjust to a new manager and playing style?]

Hovering above the Relegation Zone

15. Wigan [will slip back this season, slight turnover in the squad. Heskey for over 5 Million? Your 'aving a laugh Jewell!]
16. Sheffield United [Howling Mad Warnock will do enough to fight off relegation, they may suprise a few teams this season]
17. Fulham [Fulham a have limited transfer budget, will they sell Steed Malbranque, to generate funds to freshen the squad up?]

Relegation Trap Door

18. Reading [Will fight to the to the end, but they need to bring in players with Premier League experience - no evidence of this so far, another 1 season one wonder ala Crystal Palace and Norwich]
19. Aston Villa [Deadly Doug is a stubborn old fool, David O'Dreary is not a big motivator, the squad looks stale, lack of money to bring in new signings. Is this the season when Aston Villa implode and get ejected from the premiership via the relegation trap door? yes if they don't put things right NOW.]
20. Watford [Some are predicting a Wigan type season, however i just don't see the premiership quality, strength in depth or experience in the squad.]

[By the way, there are 15 ex premiership clubs in the championship this coming season, which is a record?]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Championship

I think Reading will do well enough to put the Winnersh Triangle on the footballing map.

I'm not sure what the Winnersh Triangle is.

Ronney has spent the last two weeks writing his autobiography, in which he states, yet again, that he and Ronaldo are really good, text-sending, muck about pals.

I still don't understand the draw of soccer, but I think I like the fan aspects.

No Welsh teams at the moment, just ROBBIE SAVAGE.

Cardiff City are in the division below - The Championship

Swansea City are two divisions below Premiership - League One

Wrexham are three divisions below Premiership - League 2

I heard that Chelsea were the Red Sox of the Premiership, though.

My feelings about the Glazer takeover are well-documented, but I can't help thinking it's a bit strange that United have still signed ABSOLUTELY NO ONE this summer. Seeing as the Glazers promised a budget of £25 million net per season for transfers (and spent far less than that in their first full year) you would expect them to be spending something if only to keep up appearances. In theory, with last season's underspend and the Obi Mikel money there's a budget of £47.5 million this summer (potentially rising to £80 million or so if Ruud & Ronaldo are sold), but in reality it will be far less than that. Nevertheless, they've got to sign someone, surely?

It's difficult to make any predictions about United's performance next season until we know who they've signed (and who they've sold). If they do make a net outlay of about £50 million and bring in big names like Torres, then I think they would easily finish ahead of Liverpool and Arsenal. If (as seems more likely) they spend about £15 - £20 million and bring in some middle-weight names (Carrick? a fading Vieira?) I think they would finish anywhere from 2nd to 4th. If they only spend the money they receive (for Mikel + Ruud/Ronaldo) that would suggest the debt has already become a massive problem and the club is right up shit creak.

i am going with boro as my surprise team. for some reason i feel that they will become more pragmatic under southgate - not sure what i'm basing this on, as he's never managed before, but i sense that he was quite unimpressed with the silliness of the mclaren era, and he will make the club more like, say, everton in one of their good seasons. less talented-but-undermotivated stars playing in spells, more earnest donkeys overperforming on a consistent basis. (i'm cheerily willing to admit that i may read this prediction a few months down the line and feel thoroughly embarrassed.)

i would love villa to go down (sorry, villa fans) so maybe it's wishful thinking putting them in the the zone. they usually do enough to stay afloat - maybe i should swap them with fulham, who knows? they will get the "new manager lift" when o'leary is inevitably replaced during the season, which should boost their points total a little.

i see nothing at watford to make me think they will stay up. in fact, i think they would be doing well to beat sunderland's points tally last season.

Manyoo need to sign Gennaro Gattuso or another similarly dirty ball-winner. I doubt this will happen because Ferguson has shown no signs recently that he has the slightest clue how to balance his squad.

Also, PAUL SCHOLES = the biggest enigma in top flight football this season. Could be amazing, could be rubbish.

1. chelsea
2. liverpool (unless squad really gels, then maybe first)
3. arsenal
4. tottenham (yes, they are now a big club)
5. man u (but, could be many changes in pipeline, so who knows)

PERKY LADS:

6. west ham
7. everton (not convinced by aj and beattie frontline though)
8. portsmouth (prob more signings to come, and feeling of optimism)

A BIT TIRED LOOKING:

9. bolton
10. newcastle
11. blackburn
12. middlesboro
13. man city
14. wigan

NEW BOYS vs VERY TIRED LOOKING:

15. reading
16. sheffield united
17. charlton

DEAD:

18. fulham
19. aston villa
20. watford

I like those odds after this.

Duff to Tottenham apparently, soon, could be a great signing.

Now sign some fullbacks please, Martin. Most of our points dropped last season were down to Stalteri and Lee fucking up.

Don't think there's a direct equivalent, but probably Liverpool.

I am unconvinced whether Tottenham can repeat last season's excellent form, think Watford might stay up but Wigan will struggle. Everybody else will do okay. Liverpool will be very interesting (though maybe not to watch ha ha).

Looks like Chelsea are having a jolly good clear out.

Nobody really knows what they're up to. They needed to massively increase profits just to meet the hedge fund interest payments (never mind actually paying off any of the hundreds of millions of debt), and there's been little sign of that. There was a rumour a week or two ago that they were going to sell the naming rights to Old Trafford to bring in some money (I think technically not 'renaming' it as such, but rebranding it as 'Old Trafford - The Theatre of Dreams in association with Tampax and B&Q' or something), and something about doing a securitisation deal which I didn't fully understand - I think the gist of it is they get a big wedge now (which will enable the meet the interest payments) but will have mortgaged away future income or something. Sounds a bit Leeds United to me.

Tho I still reckon he's a good signing, I mean he has the ability, just never really succeeded at Chelsea.

Mixed feelings on Duff to Rottenham. Think he'll prosper there, but also not too sad to see him go.

My Chelsea supporting boss is annoyed about this. That is a good thing,.

Duff was great at first and had a superb second season, but all of our wingers (except Cole) struggled last season, partly through injury, partly through having no regular, solid full back behind them and partly through opposition tactics. they are asked to work harder than normal wingers, but they also often have to face two defenders when going forward.

see, when most teams play chelsea, they aren't trying to win, they're trying not to lose, so spend all their energy and personnel on working out ways to stop the wingers and hamper makelelelele. there's also lampard's poor form to consider. hence our change in system from next season.

I'm now hearing reports of Nedved to Spurs as well? Are we going to sign one ageing superstar every season?

(Answer - sell Michael Carrick)

I don't think it's got anything to do with Roman. Jose ain't stupid and he knows that teams clocked our system last year, which is why we laboured to so many rather tedious victors as opposed to the season before when we were flying and played excellent football. So it's change around, probably to a diamond, with Maka and Ballack at the tips, Lamps and Essien in the middle, Shev and Drog up front. Cole and Robben will be used as occasional wingers, SWP is getting splinters.

I think anyway, but it's just about all that makes sense given our personnel.

(Incidentally, the transfer of Cundy had me mortified. i wrote to the chelsea fanzine to complain about it, which was daft because there wasn't much they could do, although it may have been the first time i had my name in print.)

NO !

Matches on Saturday, 3 or 4 matches on Sunday, a Monday night match, plus some "Mid Week" Tuesday and Wednesday matches

xpost

I am glad he has proven that SKY is a minority channel.

It is odd how everyone is saying Tottenham will finish high, ie. 4th / 5th. This is unlikely.

Duff could be a good signing, though. He has just won the Premiership title - I assume; unless he has not played in sufficient matches.

Is Mary on this thread the same Mary as on many other threads in the past? I can't always tell, who people are.

I agree that Aston Villa will be Kings of the Midlands. They always are!

It was surprising to me to see Reading mentioned as being in the 'top flight'.

Liam Miller is indeed a mystery. The idea of signing him was... to replace Roy Keane! Now he's a misfit.

Robbie Keane: he's fit, he's rested, he's ready to cartwheel.

Fixed your post, Joe.

I just wish the FSC wrapup shows weren't trying so hard to be both 'hip and current' and 'oh we're down with the way British people talk about teh football.' Pick a personality and stick with it. Also, Michelle Littell needs some new glasses.

But since when has the apparent mediocrity of all available opposition meant that Tottenham will be successful in any way?

Unfortunately, I don't have Fox Soccer Channel--to get it I have to get digital cable and re-arrange everything, I think. I would go to a bar and watch but I feel I wouldn't be able to hear commentary, necessary for a novice like me.

Where's the MLS (Major Leauge Soccer) thread at? How do these players stack up against the Premiereship: Ben Olsen, Freddy Adu, Christian Gomez, Jaime Moreno? Go DC United!

having seen the film about the NY cosmos over the summer, i hope that redbull man pulls a similar stunt and roberto carlos/raul/figo/insert other slightly past their best stars (beckham?) go to play for the metrostars

The thing that I don't understant about soccer, even with all those high-class players, they still managed get routed at times? Is luck the most important factor?

Why do you like the Red Bulls? DC United is like 15 games undefeated right now. Freddy scored the first goal in the first professional stateside soccer match I have ever seen, last week against Celtic. He scored another goal last Saturday night against the Columbus Crew, but as he was majorly offside it didn't count.

DC just has Christain Gomez and Jaime Moreno, two relatively older players (ie my age) from Argentina and Bolivia, respectively.

beckham would do well in America, i think, just because he's basically the only soccer player Americans have heard of (other than Zidane, but that's recent news)

That said, unless Middlesbrough buy a centre-back very shortly its Bye Bye Boro.

I suppose there are about to be about 15 world class centre halves on the Italian market, mind.

I wonder if we could put together a professional footballer-musician supergroup XI? There's that Scott Walker fellow who plays in Scotland somewhere. My lot have Paul Jones in goal, where he performs better than he ever did in Manfred Mann. Who else?

Daniel Agger and Gabriel Paletta.

You're probably right, those candidates probably provide cover, but I'd be a bit concerned about a lack of experience.

This just in: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5190508.stm

Football giant Manchester United has confirmed a refinancing package which cuts its annual interest bill by £28m.
A deal next month will see loan charges on sums borrowed from three hedge funds fall from £90m ($164m) a year to £68m.

As part of the restructuring plan, total debt will rise from £580m to £660m, but the club called the move "good housekeeping".

US tycoon Malcolm Glazer bought United for £790m in 2005, but some fans said his financial plan was unworkable.

At the time of the takeover the Shareholders United group said Mr Glazer had no chance of being able to repay the vast sums of money he needed to borrow to seal the deal.

However, since then United's financial situation has improved as the club has signed a major new shirt sponsorship deal, with US insurance group AIG, worth £56.5m over four years.

Woo-hoo! And to think I was worried last year! So the Glazers have reduced their own debt by shifting another £80M onto the club, but the interest payments are now down to just £68M a year. Hallelujah! That might sound like a lot of money, but not when you consider the pre-Glazer profits (2000 £16.7m, 2001 £21.7m, 2002 £32.3m, 2003 £39.3m, 2004 £27.9m), so coupled with the new sponsorship deal which will bring in less than one year's interest repayments over the course of four years all they have to do is double profits to meet the interest payments to keep the debt at a nice tidy £0.66 billion. Nice one.

Yes, I heard an Italian based English journalist say this on the radio last night. he said the only one who was interested in playing in England was Gattuso and now that Milan aren't being relegated he'll probably be staying there

matt what are these decent wigan signings of which u speak?

The profits or "spare money" in previous years was made after servicing debts too you know, albeit smaller ones.

xxxpost

That's quite a feat in this day and age. To go from that to being your entire corporate value in debt is a bit of a leap isn't it?

How has turnover faired with the stadium expansion? Didn't they predict an extra £10-15M pa from that alone?

How many Italians play outside of Italy AND England though? Is it even double figures?

Onimo - it is a leap and was one of the main reasons the takeover was so resisted, but the twats in the mainstream press and punditocracy didn't focus on that. It was all 'he's rich and wouldn't do it if he didn't have a plan!'. Stupid cunts.

Stadium expansion could lead to increased turnover, but all reports I hear is that it's never been easier to get into OT than it is now, and that they've been saddled with a increased supply, as ticket prices have risen and the team is getting less competitive.

I think gate receipts are about £40 million a year. They've added about 8,000 seats (so an increase in capacity of just over 10%), which erring on the generous side could increase revenues by £5 million.

It was all 'he's rich and wouldn't do it if he didn't have a plan!'. Stupid cunts.

Exactly, while completely ignoring the fact that his 'plan' was to avoid using his own money, and just borrowing half a billion from the equivalent of loan sharks and then immediately offloading the debt onto the club.

i jest, of course...

none of the italian team* in the last two major tournaments played outside of italy at the time of the tournament, they are the only major power who has this insularity (yeah, ok, so we're not great either)

*who had a panini sticker

even so, my perception is these players are very much the exception. although, if you think about it, it's really only a couple of years since the spaniards started coming to liverpool england...

Hi dere!

I now have a Basque football shirt, but it's not the one the players wear, it's the one worn by the people who carry the magic sponge and other accessories.

Sorry, this was not very irate.

That would be irate, if I could summon up the energy.

Thing is, I quite like lack of ambition.

I certainly lack ambition myself, so I can't really complain about it in others.

Do you shave your head, Markelby? I think you should grow it long.

I have just had a wave of nostalgia for the days when I didn't know the difference between Markelby and N.

I guess this was pre-MK Dons.

Celtic!

http://sport.blesk.cz/pages/zoom.php?idimg=22458&foto=http://img.blesk.cz/blesk/imgnew/BLESK/2006/07/19/1-baros1.jpg
http://sport.blesk.cz/pages/zoom.php?idimg=22459&foto=http://img.blesk.cz/blesk/imgnew/BLESK/2006/07/19/1-baros2.jpg
http://sport.blesk.cz/pages/zoom.php?idimg=22460&foto=http://img.blesk.cz/blesk/imgnew/BLESK/2006/07/19/1-baros3.jpg

Steve Nash goes for the Tottenham Spurs
Clive Owen, Spike Lee and Johnny Rotten for Arsenal (also Osama and John Gotti?)
Joe Strummer was apparently a Chelsea fan.

Choices, choices...

xp

Apparently there are over 70 Celtic supporters' clubs throughout the U.S. The most vocal group seems to be from Pennsylvania.

The MLS All-Stars are playing Chelsea in August. Will they send their reserves in hopes that the U.S. won't know the difference?

Being a Chelsea fan = being a Yankees fan?

I like Chelsea a bit. Well, the idea of (what, you think I've seen any of these teams?), but it does seem a bit obvious. I'm drawn maybe even more to Man City, but don't imagine I'd really belong. I guess I'm destined to be a Spurs fan, then, but I'm not sure I can bring myself to hate Arsenal. Maybe it's back to Chelsea?

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40965000/gif/_40965195_port_vale_203.gif

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/a/aston_villa/5196872.stm

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39363000/jpg/_39363898_hoddle_saints203.jpg

I dunno, I like Arsenal's French-ness and other international-ness, but they don't seem like the right fit, I figure I can root for Thierry Henry in other arenas, and I definitely can't root against the Spurs, even if the fans I met were sorta insular-seeming.

Arsenal: "...their prolonged championship drought ending in 2004 and their fans becoming insufferable immediately afterward" Yes, I don't know how Arsenal fans lived through the two-year wait.

Man City: "Most of England hates them" Really? I'd be surprised if anyone apart from Man Utd fans cared about them at all.

Newcastle United: "They're named after a beer I actually like" I have yet to come across a pint of Newcastle United."their fans are terrific...[they] sing songs like 'Who the F*** are Manchester United.'" As does every other set of fans, including those of Manchester United.

Liverpool: Most Hated Rival: Any of the London teams Yes, indeed, when the fixture list comes out the red half of Merseyside ignore their upcoming games against Everton and Man Utd but eagerly look forward to those classic encounters against the hated Charlton and Fulham.

Tottenham Hotspur: "Nickname: The Spurs. This is important: You either call then "Tottenham Hotspur" or you call them "the Spurs," but no other option is acceptable. Hmmmmm. So 'Tottenham' or 'Spurs' would fail that test. "Way back in the day, other English teams' fans would derisively jeer Tottenham fans, stereotyping them as Jews and calling them just about every anti-Semitic name you could call someone. So, the Hotspurs fans just turned the jeers around, proudly proclaiming themselves a 'Jew Army' and -- despite the fact that most weren't even Jewish -- embraced the imagery wholeheartedly." Ah, the famous chant of 'Jew Army'?

West Ham: "Good for people who like '80s music and make references to George Michaels." WTF??? "West Ham was prominently featured in the Elijah Wood movie about hooliganism ("Green Street Hooligans"). Again, I want to minimize the role of hooligans in my life" It wasn't a documentary and Elijah Wood is unlikely to beat you up if you go to Upton Park.

• Bandwagon Potential: Sadly, a little too high -- especially because of the Big Four thing and Gerrard (who seems like the most likable star in the league, hands down).

I thought my love for "Big Papi" was unique.

he's referring to Newcastle Brown Ale

Wuh??

Re: Stuart Pearce: even wears track suits to games. Such individualism! No other managers do that! He's a wacky guy!

I like how that bloke says you *must* call them "Tottenham Hotspur" or "The Spurs" about a dozen lines before calling them "the Hotspurs".

So, basically, his 'Vacation Destination' criterion is "I'm not fucking going anywhere that isn't London".

Oh, and GUESS WHICH team he eventually plumps for. "The Spurs. This is important: You either call then "Tottenham Hotspur" or you call them "the Spurs," but no other option is acceptable."

Apart from the Lillywhites then? Or the Y'... I mean JEW ARMY!

he's referring to Newcastle Brown Ale In what parallel universe could Newcastle United possibly be named after Newcastle Brown Ale?

I like the Chelsea-Mavs/Abramovich-Cuban angle.

(xpost)

In what parallel universe could Newcastle United possibly be named after Newcastle Brown Ale?

America?

Probably impossible to come by, though, seeing as hardly anyone in England knows anything about American sports, and most Americans know very little about football.

Portsmouth line up Fernandes deal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/5196466.stm
Portsmouth are on the verge of signing Portuguese midfielder Manuel Fernandes for a club record £10m, reports BBC Radio Solent.

The 20-year-old Benfica player is expected to have a medical on Thursday before discussing personal terms.

(xpost)

but there is this

I've just realised that question was to me, sorry. I'm not really sure what the answer is - I was a lifelong Manchester United supporter until May 2005, then I spent about six months wanting them to lose, now I kind of support them from the comfort of my sofa but go to watch FC United instead.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/Shearer.gif

or Newcastle

I really wish I bought the Man City jersey now, not because I support them, but for the same reason as before--such a beautiful color. You should have encouraged me, 668.

Also, I lost my pink Manchester badminton jacket:(

Vancouver Canucks = Newcastle Utd. Adored despite never winning anything. Also, Vancouver and Newcastle are both strangely shaped, small-ish cities which mastermind much larger urban agglomerations.

Calgary Flames = Man Utd. Red, rich, and practically American. Lots of people buy the shirt despite no real interest in the sport, but the real fans are as good as any.

Edmonton Oilers = Middlesbrough/Liverpool. Edmonton is the Middlesbrough of Canada (we have a tough time attracting players who will willingly live here), but the Oilers enjoyed an LFC-style dominance of the 1980s. Also big time rivalry with Man Utd/Calgary Flames.

Toronto Maple Leafs = Rangers/Chelsea. Like Rangers, the Leafs have been hapless on the transfer market and have recently ditched a head coach that took the blame for a squad full of undermotivated players. (Also cf. historical rivalry w/ Montreal.) Like Chelsea, the Leafs often inspire disdain for representing all that is Toronto-centric/London-centric about our respective nations.

Ottawa Senators = Arsenal. Ottawa is close to Québec; Arsenal are "close to" France. Expensive, stylish rosters. But what does it translate to?

Montreal Canadiens = Celtic. Some Old Firm-like (but generally much more polite) parallels here with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Every Canadian child is forced to read a short story called Le Chandail de hockey/"The Hockey Sweater" which has a hand in inculcating a lifelong nervousness about Canada's cultural divide.

What about the American ice hockey clubs? Well, that requires this handy formula:

Where Canadian team X = Aberdeen FC, American team Y = Chelsea.

Both Canada and Aberdeen are envied for prodigious oil supply, and both used to enjoy a lot more league success. Ultimately neither locale really has the population to attract zillionaires and big TV revenue, hence unlikely to return to dominance anytime soon.

man u is too boring, man city seems too crap, but i like the unis and their moxie. blackburn is closest to the fam (20 minutes), but they're crap, aren't they?

looks like its liverpool! convince me otherwise.

they finished top 7 last year, they're pretty underrated. interesting to see how they will fare without craig bellamy this year.

i have been outed

You could always go the underdog route and support the once mighty Preston North End who are next closest after Blackburn (or as you are supposed to call them - roarverrrrrrs)

"O'Leary never had the club at heart but there are a lot of people who'd love the challenge of being Aston Villa manager."

is Adrian Boothroyd any relation or is 'Betty' a joek?

Hmmmm....
http://www.aebc.com/tec/scousers.jpg

hmm, reading more of those comments made me more interested in Liverpool. and my soccer-watching friend is a fan. and i have no reason not to like them.

They're pure, concentrated evil. But I suppose that can be attractive.

;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMEvHl1dZuk

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Musicfor18cover.jpg

Last year nearly everybody tipped West Ham to finish bottom and (I paraphrase only slightly) "to be relegated by mid-November."

I think lower half is realistic and I would be happy if it meant a decent UEFA Cup run. I also think The Tottenham Spurs XI (or whatever) will improve on last season. They've spent so much money over the years, it has to happen some time, but this squad looks good if Berbatov, Keane and Defoe can get the goals.

As for West Ham, well, we're away at FC Trollhatten tonight. A stern test.

-- Michael Jones (tourajsig...), July 19th, 2006 11:23 PM.

read: "They're more successful than us. But I suppose that can be attractive."

Read it how you like, Rednose. I'd hate Liverpool if they were in Conference North.

Stanley are back, Stanley are back, woah woah.

Which Stanley is that BTW?

And whatever happened to New Brighton?

That Martin P4rr bloke stitched us up.

Ron Atkinson on David O'Leary a couple of days ago, "he needs to be whiter than white."

except, wikipedia suggests manchester citys record victory came against liverpool stanley, in 1890

it seems ungentlemanly, that manchester city didn't go easier, against a side who weren't playing their main sport

then again, i'm sure bath and wigan didn't follow such conduct either

However, I am glad it is out in the open and I plan to remedy the situation by visiting the 'north' at some point in the next few years maybe.

I thought the Atkinson quote (about O'Leary) was tongue in cheek, but I'm not 100% convinced.

bolton....probably not.

blackburn i'll reconsider, but i want a winner, dammit!

We "did" it here , and I just assumed it was some UK Living channel pile of plop, not a BBC blockbuster soon to be on DVD.

tango.jpg

That's easy for you to say, your national team just won the fucking World Cup.

Gbx - only one of four (and realistically three) teams are at all likely to win the Premiership this season, and they tend to keep winning the FA Cup at all. Thankfully we have a challenging and highly-respected tournament called the Carling Cup that Blackburn could well win!

Alternatively, plump for Spurs. We're going to win the UEFA Cup this season.

Then support Chelsea. It's quite simple.

Your search - "dour inhabitant of international centre of commerce, portsmouth" - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:

* Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
* Try different keywords.
* Try more general keywords.

What did Big Ron say? I cannot see it.

Who on earth would want the Villa job? Apart from PJ Miller.

elsewhere, fair game.

simmons does have one good point: if you're going to support a foreign team, it helps to be able to see them on TV now and then.

and yeah, i'd plump for the spurs if (a) simmons hadn't already (b) i didn't feel obligated to rep the north. i do really like, ellowendeeowen, though, bigtime.

dom: i'll happily back palermo, if only for those sweet-ass unis.

I rather hope Roy Aitken does well. I think he was there in the glory year in some capcity or other.

How did everyone choose their teams? In the U.S. it's largley a matter of geography, or barring that, perversity, because we don't have many teams in the same local area. Does it come down to neighborhoods, or did Brits too have to once go shopping for their original teams?

There was something on this before, here on ilx. from what i understand, it is geographically based. You look at the team which is nearest where you are from, or at, and then you choose Spurs

There's some stuff on this thread - What exactly is interesting about club football?

People from Manchester are called Mancunians, btw.

Don't support Spurs. Why does it have to be an English team, btw? Why does it have to be a Premiership team? Is the Premiership all they show on your sports channels?

Already a fan of Celtic, and have decided to throw in my lot with Dom and back Palermo, but mostly because i like their jerseys.

UH

Why does it have to be a Premiership team?

I have already announced my allegiance to QPR. Whoever they are.

manchestrians! good work, team

I don't want an English team to support. I've tried to develop loyalties to several of them, but I basically don't care enough. I still like watching though.

Haikunym, I sort of figured you would know, but you never can tell...

Because it's "the best league in the world"

Because English boys are the cute. It helps if its a Premiereship team if we actually want to see a game every once in a while. My sports channels don't show any non U.S. soccer, that I can tell. But I can watch Premiereship teams when they play friendlies, though they refuse to play their best players so I don't know why they bother, oh it's to pick up the hefty paycheck I suppose.

I tried to develop a crush on your Celts (JOKE LOCUTION), Alisa, but they did not comport themselves very nicely in the nation's capital. Also, I watched the rerun on TV and try as I might, I couldn't find any player to develop a crush upon. (Nakamura ga inai, kara.)

I think I've got my top 3 almost sorted.

1. Arsenal - I want to be Clive Owen when I grow up
2. FC Barcelona
3. Cardiff City, who go up to first should they ever rejoin the Premiership.

(I was similarly let down with the CBs being human).

It's rare to meet someone (from England) who has been supporting a club (from England) only since adulthood isn't it? as their #1 team at least. 9 times out of 10 it seems to have been decided at quite an early age, and in my experience it was only geography-based 50% of the time (but that's in the South).

Particularly Nuno Valente.

Maybe they do, I haven't been down Loftus Road for a while.

This came to a head in 1989 when Liverpool played Arsenal in that final game of the season. When Liverpool lost I decided that was the team for me. I can't really remember why I did that.

Never trust anyone who switches teams. Not even kids.

Goodison is further west than Anfield but also slightly further north (I'm guessing that Dublin is further south than Liverpool but I can't quite picture it in my head at the mo').

When I was at school, nearly all the kids had a Scottish team too. this was around the time of those poxy dual scarves with Spurs-Celtic or whatever. I didn't get that at all.

Of course they did, Rangers were the dominant side of the time (early to mid eighties). Despite most kids being COE, there were Celtic 'supporters' too. I saw no point in supporting a Scottish team, maybe because I was a goalkeeper and Alan Rough was a joke.

Whereas I decided to support Dundee, who are still the Scottish team whose results I check (and those of Celtic, thanks to the enthusiasm of A Certain Ex-Girlfriend).

Liverpool
Arsenal
Chelsea

Open to change: I may need to spend a year simply watching the game in order to pledge my allegiance/develop proper crushes. Oh, and now I think I should follow the Pittsburgh Pirates because they have a fantastic name. Also the Oakland A's seem like a good team to root for.

The "proper" fascist team in Spain is Atletico Madrid, because they started off as an air force team. However, fascist tendencies are often attributed to Real Madrid (Franco's adopted/hijacked team, used to (supposedly) promote fascist values in their heyday, and still beloved of rightwing politicians for some reason) and more or less all the Galician teams, notably Racing Ferrol. I think that's just because Franco and some of his cronies were from around there though. I think Torrelavega are fascists too, but that is based purely on instinct. Badajoz as well. Espanyol have some kind of reputation, but it is just Barca snobbery, I think. Then of course there are other aspects of "fascism", such as Bilbao's Basques only policy, but that is a kind of anti-fascist fascism. Everywhere outside the Basque Country it is lauded as a Spaniards-only policy. Valencia is regarded as a fascist place, so I suppose that might extend to the football club. I think Sevilla are more fascist than Betis, but I think it is useful to just tar them all with the same brush and have done with it.

There was talk of Barca being sponsored by the organizing committee of the Beijing Olympics - thankfull it came to nought.

I wuv Barca, even though I know I shouldn't.

I have lots of teams across Europe that I like a lot.

and of course plenty I detest

I am not sure about the intellectuals though. Posh people, yes, which I suppose could be considered the same thing by people of limited intellect.

"On me head, Jermaine!"

"Beg pardon?"

DC United has such tacky sponsorship. Adidas in the sponsor, or manufacturer, as you say, of all MLS team gear, then DC United has Sierra Mist banners like taped onto their sleeves and backs.

To what depths of the English leagues must I go to avoid jersey billboards?

The swoosh on a barca shirt is pretty much the same size as on any shirt iirc.

Ajax kit is v v nice, at least the old ones are anyway:

http://www.cruijff.com/multimedia/archive/00053/Sterk_aan_de_bal_53091a.jpg

I remain disappointed that QPR don't dress for games as actual traditional Park Rangers, replete with barbour jackets, tweed caps and guns which fire tranqilizer darts. (Is that what park rangers wear?)

well we do still pick up bits of rubbish with, er... our eyes

(gabbneb what possessed you!)

http://www.qpr.premiumtv.co.uk/javaImages/7a/c1/0,,10373~2933114,00.jpg

altho we are also set to sport the original borough hamnmersmith and fulham crest again, which is very cool.

http://www.qpr.premiumtv.co.uk/javaImages/82/c1/0,,10373~2933122,00.jpg

'spectemur agendo' - let us be judged by our acts, apparently.

(it is a nice reminder of reading chesterton's the napoleon of notting hill again during the world cup, and seeing the evening standard scream WAYNE RETURNS, or such like, at the same time! carry on.)

(also, maybe the acronym makes them feel less britishes and therefore more accessible? also, park rangers)

http://www.barcelona.com/var/plain/storage/images/media/phototour_of_barcelona/fc_barcelona/fc_barcelona_football_tickets_14/15635-2-eng-GB/fc_barcelona_football_tickets_14_imagelarge.jpg

There's just a tiny little swish on my Glasgow Celtic shirt, but I find even that a bit offputting. Does Glasgow have sponsorship? What is the difference between merchandiser and sponsorship? Are they not both forms of paid advertising?

I just don't understand why anyone would buy a shirt in which the product is 10 times larger than the team name or shield.

Also: do footballers get to pick their shoes? I thought I noticed them wearing different brands? Or does each player just sign the most lucrative cleats deal he can get?

it's true -- I've never seen a swoosh in my life.

http://www.kitbag.com/stores/celtic/_artwork/_common/kit_selector/54/dummy.jpg

The kit deal is indeed a form of sponsorship, Celtic are making in the region of £25M over 5 years from Nike, plus additional revenue from replica kit sales.

I noticed they had Coors sponsoship on their "International Away Jersey" for at least one of the US Tour matches. Are Coors and Carling owned by the same people?

http://www.celticfc.net/graphics/news/header/jarosik/Jarosik_DCUnited_shot.jpg

(I know this has nothing to do with the Premiership, but you'll let us in one of these days, won't you?)

Glasgow the city? If you're going to kid on like you know stuff about Celtic and/or Rangers, you should first of all learn that neither of them have the word Glasgow in their names. Celtic. Rangers. That's it.

Both have their kits sponsored by Carling, however for the North American market, Celtic's shirts sported the Coors logo (I think Coors own Carling, but Carling is the more popular and recognisable brand in the UK).

I find the Nike swoosh to be totally unobtrusive. Celtic's kit manufacturer for years was Umbro, and I never really noticed their logo either.

What is the difference between merchandiser and sponsorship? Are they not both forms of paid advertising?

Yes they are. Difference is that the kit manufacturer makes the kit, the sponsor just throws wads of cash at the club to get their names plastered on the front of the jersey. There are whole other levels of sponsorship (people sponsor individual players, the match ball, executive boxes, pay for advertising hoardings in the stadium etc - even our scoreboard is sponsored by the Daily Mail).

Footballers can wear whatever shoes they like, I think, but some high-profile players sign tie-in deals with a specific manufacturer.

Can't you just read a book, or something, about this? In fact, there's already a thread (Who wants to answer my stupid American questions about Engish football) but it's rather beset by silliness.

(xpost!)

http://www.universalmusic.no/les_mer.asp?newsid=3477

Overskuddet går til Soccer Against Crime som er en organisasjon startet av Ketil Siem og Rune Bratseth.

what about last seasons relegatees? the pennant-to-liverpool rumour seems to have run aground? david dunn? forrsell? cdavies is already moving somewhere, who else is left, zoltan gera?

gera somehow seems to have glasgow celtic written all over him. in a swooshy font

Maybe the Barca swoosh looks bigger because of the judicious use of colour. They used to be Kappa, but I think Nike offers the biggest whack these days.

I think the no sponsorship thing works for them because of the "pride" of their wealthy patrons, and Fc Barcelona is very much a brand in itself, and sponsorship would dilute the brand message or whatever. They sell an enormous ammount of tacky shite.

Sponsorship money always strikes me as fairly paltry anyway.

I detest "online gambling" sponsorship.

I think we need a picture of the first UK sponsorship deal - Liverpool's strikingly dull "HITACHI" in normal capital letters. I think the people who said this was the beginning of the end were right.

I do like Ajax, but I'm not that bothered really.

I would love to see a showdown between Manchester United and MK Dons. I am going to be following their fortunes very closely this year. I may even move to Milton Keynes.

I do not undertsnad why Deadly Doug gets lambasted for trying to keep some kind of financial order. Surely this is better than Chelsea's incredible losses, or Man Utd's massive debts? Not that I really understand how a "company" can function with such massive shortfalls in the first place.

I myslef am debt-averse (technical term) so I can appreciate Deadly Doug's efforts.

The Daily Mirror says Martin O'Neill is up for the Villa job if the infamous consortium of lifelong millionaires takes over.

Also Sir Alex F says Chelsea have signed 30 African "boys".

I picked it up on the train.

. . . And this regarding Damien Duff: apparently Spurs, Newcastle, Liverpool and someone else (I'm thinking of a big Spanish club but can't remember which one) all had bids accepted by Chelsea.

There is a picture of little me wearing the HITACHI shirt on Sinister - but the photo page no longer works :( We also had a HITACHI telly at this point, so the sponsorship really did work.

Have you got a Hitachi shirt?

On?

Now?

the time

Full kit in fact, Father Christmas gave it to me

So sorry. I thought it was obvious that I was referring to Celtic, seeing as that's the friendly I attended (4-0 win to DC), and that's the team t-shirt I bought. I hear even announcers will say "Glasgow Celtic" for the sake of clarity.

Can't you just read a book, or something, about this?

I have read the following books in the past month:

How Soccer Explains the World: An Unlikely Theory of Globalization
Soccer in Sun and Shadow
The Thinking Fan's Guide to the World Cup
Futebol: Soccer, the Brazilian Way

Any other suggestions?

I'm not really a football book kind of person, Mikey G or Markelby or Porkyie may be better placed to help here. I like the look of this one though.

Haha, I can't believe Liverpool was the first.

Oh, and to whoever up thread, of course American jerseys have swooshes all over them--but not with the pretense that they are not accepting sponsorship. I thought Barcelona had taken a completely commercial-free moral high ground, from what I read. Also, I think the U.S. advertisers are usually sports brands? which is why I'm not getting really the difference between sponsorship and manufactuer, though it seems that sponsors are just completely unrelated companies.

Alisa, two weeks ago I was referring to them as the Celtics. Give me some credit here. I am trying.

Scottish referees have their kit sponsored by Specsavers (a well-known chain of opticians). Ha, and indeed, ha.

Celtic players, incidentally, have never been very crushworthy. I suppose Shaun Maloney could be construed as cute in a certain light. Despite an odd fondness for Joos Valgaeren and his odd ski-jump nose, I have decided that Jackie McNamara is possibly the only good-looking player we've ever had. Just as well I don't watch football for teh cuet boyz, innit?

Who was the big blond fellow in center midfield? He was sort of teddy-bear cute?

http://scotlandtoday.scottishtv.co.uk/content/mediaassets/images/neil-lennon-celtic-iv.jpg

Yeah, but even diehard Celtic supporters sing songs with things like "and the Glasgow Celtic will be there" so I think it's fair enough that people from other countries use Glasgow Celtic.

I used to have a keyring with the old club crest on it that calls them "The Celtic Football & Athletic Coy Ltd" but the crest fell off.

actually, i think i remember seeing Liverpool Everton somewhere!!

I used to have a pennant with "The Celtic Football & Athletic Coy Ltd" crest on it as well. I have no idea where that went. I do remember carefully replicating it onto the cover of one of my school jotters.

Stevem's tale of Crown Paints reminds me of the year Celtic couldn't get anyone to pay money for the privilege of having their name plastered on the front of the jerseys. The year before that we were sponsored by a local car dealership. This is kind of reminiscent of lower-leagued teams who get sponsored by local businessmen, and a long long way away from the multi-million-pound international deals flying around these days.

I'll pick you up in half an hour for the Glasgow match Ailsa :-P

x-post is Newcastle Brown Ale drunk in the City of Sunderland?

Someone wrote a letter to the New Yorker saying one reason for soccer not taking off in the states is because advertisers don't have enough incentive to get in on the game, with continuous play not allowing enough time for commercials. So maybe I can accept the jersey billboarding. Maybe here we could just install flat screen tv's on the players' chests to promote various products during each 45-minute half.

The Tour de France seems to be in flagrant violation of good sponsorship taste.

http://www.cbsnews.com/images/2006/07/12/image83d3a138-83e1-4cf2-9c2e-afc169e91956.jpg

Chicago killed DC last night, but we got to hang on to our non-losing streak with a 1-1 draw.

Are you taking the piss? Why not throw Man Utd and The London Spurs in there as well, just to completely cover yourself. [This isn't meant to sound harsh, but you *really* can't just choose to support the top three teams]

I've also never supported a foreign team. For Scotland I have an anyone-but-Rangers attitude - I'm fairly happy when Celtic win, but I'd be much happier if someone unusual won, like Falkirk or Raith Rovers. But I pay next to no attention to Scottish football, so I probably wouldn't find out anyway.

The first time I lived in Italy I was just outside Milan, so I decided to try and support Inter (Milan would have been a better choice as they wore the right colours and won the league that year, but I couldn't face that because of their owner), but it just didn't work - I didn't really care whether they won or lost. I went to the San Siro for a couple of Inter games and one Milan game and (contrary to the stereotypes) saw three goalfests (5-3, 5-1, and 3-2), but I didn't feel any connection to either team.

The next time I lived in Italy I was in Pisa (who had been in Serie A and getting crowds of 18,000 or so in the 80s, but were down in the third level and getting about 5,000). I'd heard that their local derby with Livorno could be a bit spicy, so I thought I'd go along to that, but all the locals I knew told me it would be far too dangerous, so I thought I'd try another game out first just to get a feel for it.

They played against a team from La Spezia (about 50 miles up the coast) who brought about a thousand fans with them, most of which were 'ultras' dressed in white overalls like something out of A Clockwork Orange. They were down the opposite end of the ground to the Pisa mob (whose end I found myself in because it was the cheapest part of the stadium). There was chanting flying back and forth all match (none of which I understood) orchestrated by leaders with megaphones. I think Pisa went about 3-0 up midway through the second half, after some questionable refereeing decisions, and then it just went completely mental. The La Spezia fans tore off their white uniforms, built a massive pile of them and set them on fire in the middle of their end. Then they started ripping up the seats and chucking them at the pitch while a fire raged in the middle of the stand and flares were going off all around. The police (already in riot gear) tried to baton charge them, but they just attacked the police, and the police had to run for their lives, but some of them got trapped under a hail of flying seats. Then the police came back at them firing tear gas, so the whole end piled out of the stadium in a stampede which made me worried some of kind of Hillsborough situation could be taking place. Then I started bricking it, thinking that they might have come up to wait for the Pisa fans outside our end of the stadium, but when I got out all the roads around the ground had been blocked off by what appeared to be the army (but might have been some kind of rifle-toting branch of the police) and I was funneled off on a massive detour while sirens wailed and helicopters buzzed all around.

It was front page news in the paper the next day and apparently the La Spezia fans had been herded towards an out-of-town station (leaving a trail of destruction in their wake) with the aim of forcing them onto a train back to where they'd come from, but when they were on the platform a train came past carrying loads of Livorno fans coming home after their match - when they saw the La Spezia fans they pulled the emergency cord and then leapt off their train and more than a thousand fans were involved in running battles all over the tracks.

I didn't fancy going back after that. The Pisa v Livorno game was a couple of months later and had to be abandoned about halfway through after loads of violence from the Pisa fans (not directed at Livorno, but in protest at the owners of the club).

www.historicalkits.co.uk

But it's quite feasible to enjoy the game without having a particular favourite (see me). There are certain teams I like to see do well but this changes over time (because really I like a fairly even balance of success among a selection of teams - makes it more interesting. perhaps the ideal would be a different winner every year but that's not realistic enough here. tho in recent years for some reason i have wanted Arsenal to win the league more than others because they seemed best placed to match Man U's previous dominance...and Liverpool dominated before Man U so i'm not so bothered if they come closer to repeating that feat somehow. now it's Chelsea but i can't stoke up quite the same level of enthusiasm for them - if i'm happy with them winning the Champions League it's just purely because of the sense of 'satisfaction' of English champions winning the European Cup - tho funnily this has never happened since the CL inception (Man U and Liverpool were runners-up in the Premiership before going on to win the CL the following season - so the 'dream' persists as it were...ah the perverse mentality of teh neutral (mentalist)! everything in it's right place etc.)

Meanwhile I can't remember the exact origin of Ned's frankly bizarre siding with the mighty Gillingham. Someone remind me...

Liverpool weren't even runners-up, though, they sneaked in in fourth place, thirty points behind Chelsea and fourteen years after last being champions, and the season they won the CL they finished fifth and thirty-seven points behind Chelsea. That's what made them winning it such a freak of nature / fairytale ending / fucking travesty (delete as appropriate).

Carling have cunningly decided to sponsor both Celtic AND Rangers to ensure maximum coverage and minimal boycotting in Scotland.

I am well aware that Glasgow has another team, which as far as I can tell, has one ILE supporter.

Glasgow actually has three other teams - Rangers, Partick Thistle and Queen's Park. Four, if you count Clyde, who were a Glasgow club before trundling their sorry arses out to Cumbernauld. Is Ally C really the only Rangers fan around here? I think he might be.

Celtic were quite good, in places, today. Everton were too, I guess. Their fans had fun, especially the hundred or so who managed to get tickets for the section I was in. The real test comes against Man U on Wednesday. If we win that, can we get in the Premiership please?

http://www.universalmusic.no/images/280x280/PLAYERS_singel.jpg

No. The people of Sunderland are all extremely discerning beer drinkers, and Newcastle Brown Ale is vile.

Real answer: Yeah, probably. Years ago, the big Sunderland brewery, Vaux, produced its own brown ale, called Double Maxim. It was atrocious.

I think some Sunderland fans did boycott the Northern Rock building society when they started sponsoring the Mags though.

Congrats USA Ladies in their win over Ireland, 5-0.

Ned supports that team bc they have a winky face. I suppose I would get slack if I made similar decisions;)

Everton plays Columbus Crew on Wednesday!

Are you taking the piss? Why not throw Man Utd and The London Spurs in there as well, just to completely cover yourself.

Hooray! The London Spurs are STILL ONE OF THE BIG CLUBS!

Which Norwegian midfielder of the late 90s had a heavy metal band? I'm thinking maybe he played for Chelsea at some point?

Torrid Angry Flow?

I'd hit it.

And Mary - a couple more books for you (particularly of you enjoyed the Bellos book on Brazil)

Brilliant Orange - all about Dutch football, and in a smaller part the Dutch psyche

ABC (Ajax Barcelona Cruyff) - all about the best footballer ever.

And

Ajax, the Dutch, the War - it;s odd how Dutch football seems to attract good writing.

I loved the Bellos book, not only as a book on football, but as a book on its own merits--It's making me want to go to Brazil.

If I'm allowed, I'll split my allegiances between 'Pool and Rovers.

Still like the Man City kit the best, though.

I don't hate the Premiership, particularly. I don't like the carve-up money-making nature of it, but I would welcome the carve-up and money-making if Celtic were to benefit, because I, like most other football fans want to see their team doing well. I want to join it because then Celtic will make lots of money and we will be able to afford quality players and pay their wages and maybe win stuff and I won't have to watch shite like Livingston and St Mirren every week (I will get to watch shite like Portsmouth and Watford instead, hoho). At this end of football, it's (like it or not, and I don't, but it goes with the territory) all about the big bucks, and Celtic and Rangers are very big fish in a very wee pond. Players go to the Premiership because it is perceived as exciting. People therefore watch the Premiership more, so more sponsors and advertisers and TV companies throw money at it, which gets filtered down to the clubs. So they continue to sign all the good players, and when Celtic get a half-decent player, they hang around until they can get to go to a (read: any) Premiership club, because even hanging around the arse of the table and never winning anything pays better than all the trophies, three Champions League games before the inevitable defeat to teams that can afford a whole squad of decent players rather than just one or two, and crappy away trips to Kilmarnock that a lifetime in the SPL can offer.

The fact that Henrik Larsson never did this is why he is more of a hero than most good players we've ever had here. (Yes, I know he ended up at Barcelona, but not before turning down lots of Premiership clubs and insisting he was going back to play for his hometown team. Barcelona stepped in and offered him a nice wodge of cash and a year in the sunshine, he said yes, but only on the understanding that he could leave and go back to Sweden. Singlehandedly winning the Champions League final made Barcelona offer him a new deal, he said "no, I'm off back to Sweden" and tootled off back to Sweden. You just don't get players like that any more, which is why Celtic are resigned to losing Stilian Petrov to a top international-class side Portsmouth, and we're looking at taking a 36-year-old out of retirement to boost our strike force.)

steady on

I'm trying to paint a picture of a man of principle here. Leave me alone :-)

xxxxx-post.

As everyone seems to be on the subject of football books, try Morbo by Phil Ball for a good account of the Spanish league.

Another is Frank McAvennie: Scoring (on and off the pitch). Only joking.

Some England players texted Darren Bent to say he ought to have been at the World Cup. Isn't that nice of them? Text messages seem to have been invented for footballers.

i was thinking B36 Thorshavn, but these guys don't seem to think so. Though apparently they beat Glasgow once, but then, i read somewhere that even the Junior High Art College of Bratislava did that one time

http://www.hb.fo/hb_torshavn2-3d-300x300.GIF

The Thinking Fan's Guide to the World Cup I wasn't so stoked on, because for most of the non Western countried they just get their Western friends who once vacationed there to write the synopsis of the country. That's fine occassionally, but it would have been nice to get some different P.O.V.'s.

Oh dear, I thought I saw the last of that in the WC.

Tony Cascarino's biog is truly magnificent warts and all (actually, it's just warts) ghosted biog. Gets under the skin of the pro-footballer.

Also good is WSC's 'Half Decent Football Book' which is a well-written quirky encyclopeadia, and is a great toilet book, which is where my copy is.

But they went goal-crazy towards the back end of last season! 7-0 vs Brum, 5-1 vs Fulham, etc.

Support Liverpool if you must, Mary - it will merely lend credence to most bitter Evertonians' idea that the vast majority of self-professed Reds have never been near the city. (Which happily works both ways, as this can be taken by Liverpool fans as merely an indicator of their worldwide fanbase and enduring global appeal, something which Everton don't have in anything like the same proportions).

Liverpool's recent history is dotted with improbable and outrageously dramatic cup-tie victories (Milan, Luton, West Ham, Alaves, etc) alongside the improving league form, so chances are, you won't be bored.

Or else their luck has dried up for another decade and we're about to enter a re-run of the Souness years. Which would be equally entertaining.

then everton=other prem-teams/hcorefans *2nd team* (or, *least hated team*)

?

(G'th - I used to hate Everton until I met MJ)

it's like you have a tiny inner Barry

It will burst out of his chest when Stevie G holds the Premiership trophy aloft next spring.

me too, oddly.

preferably in robes playing a goatskin drum

I think Michael is a bit like that at work sometimes, but he has to keep it in check. But occassionally there is a subtle difference in his keystrokes that gives the game away.

Maybe it's natural justice for buying Danny Williamson (when he was plainly injured) or spending £4.5m on Slaven Bilic (also injured). Myself, I blame Walter Smith's stupidity.

tho some of you may already know it. hours of fun!

In America, not caring.

xp - some of those BRovers kits are atrocious.

Always better to reserve one's vitriol for something that you can't change, I feel. Better to blast a fire hose against a brick wall than into the faces of some passing kiddies, as the old saying goes.

I actually feel slightly nauseous at the prospect of the coming football season - it's far too soon and it causes me so much anguish. October would be better.

I have put both Andy Johnson AND Tim Cahill in my provisional dream team though.

Petrov looking almost definite for Portsmouth now. Maybe Celtic can use the money to sign someone who isn't Dion Dublin.

In America, not caring.

That wasn't a dig btw. It's just that "Blackburn 94-95" always reminds me of that song.

I still hate Wimbledon, and everyone does! AFCW I prefer think of as a separate and noble enterprise, which I sort of like, while yr proper Dons fans can regard it as a continuity. Everybody wins.

I've always quite liked Villa, Spurs and West Ham. ManYoo I've never felt any great antipathy towards; the way their '90s dominance riled Liverpool fans made them quite heroic in my eyes. Arsenal under Wenger have been breathtaking to watch but remain faintly unpleasant. Tim H (and one of my old work colleagues - he's sitting to yr left, PJM) is responsible for me warming to Leeds a bit. Chelsea were OK when it was all Italian flair and not quite being as good as the Big Two but they're insufferable now. Man City I feel an obvious kinship with. Exeter are marvellous.

The rest can go to hell.

Oh, ok! I don't know what song you're talking about. I was in America, being 13.

Since they stopped all that nonsense, and since I've got to know MJ, I have grown much fonder of them.

?!

I tell you, I am going to fiollow the fortunes of MK Dons and Man Utd this year with the same religious faux-zeal the defectors lavish on their "new" teams.

Present company excepted, of courselby.

Since they stopped all that nonsense, and since I've got to know MJ

Hey it wasn't their fault Big Ron gazumped them every time.

Is Tranmere the third Liverpool team?

Seriously, though, I love the fact that there is a debateable way for an American to pick a team. If I was going to fault someone somewhere, it would be for following a sport an ocean away that no one in their country is really interested in, so that they will have a very slim chance of ever forging a "real" connection with the team. Once you've made the decision to pick a team in such a dilletantish, Anglophilic manner, I don't think any further mocking needs to occur.

DC United to play Real Madrid in August in Seattle.

May I suggest struggling but plucky MK Dons?

xpost

Tranmere is an area of Birkenhead, on the Wirral - just over the river. Half Man Half Biscuit support Tranmere. The Faithful Ten, they use to call the crowd at Prenton Park (says my Dad). That may have been shorthand for a larger number but I'm not so sure. My Dad also does a recurring joke about being able to hear the Prenton roar from Bidston Hill - but only at quarter to four when they bring the pies round.

(It's my Dad's 78th birthday today! I got him a Rising Damp boxset).

Never in the top tier of English football, they're currently in the 3rd Division (Coca Coca League One, if you will).

well strictly speaking it's "the bitters" who rep for the catholics (not that it really matters and i suspect you're referring to the city as a whole).

I read a book about a Tranmere hooligan.

More Yankee/Chelsea comparisons here

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/25/sports/soccer/25soccer.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin

Jose Mourinho doesn't look bad.

Tranmere book = awaydays?

Best pic of mourinho:
http://www.boreme.com/boreme/media-pictures/little-chelsea.jpg

As for this love of things scouse, I find it deeply reprehensible. It just feeds their universal assumption that every single one of them is a witty racounteur who is wasted in bar work/taxi driving/street cleaning/bus driving.

Not really - Everton's roots are actually Methodist and, as Liverpool wouldn't exist without Everton (Holding, 1892, Anfield, rent increase, blah blah blah), so are theirs. They sprung from the same source so there's no real sectarian divide in their origin. There have been some abortive attempts from various idiots to develop a religious identity for the clubs (and EFC/Cath and LFC/Prot was the split) but it doesn't really wash when the Blue and Red strands are so interwoven amongst families.

With me, Dad = Protestant, Mum = Catholic - both from families of Blues.

MAKE UP YOUR MINDS, ENGLAND

xp -- the last Scouser I met (at a family reunion) was, indeed, a witty raconteur with a dead-end job. we got along swimmingly. he's supposed to take me 'round liverpool the next time i'm over. which is at x-mas!

Nowadays most seats in each ground are given to season ticket holders, so there's only a relatively small proportion left for people buying tickets for single matches. For the more popular clubs (like Liverpool) every league game is a sell and oversubsribed - you would have to be a member even to have the right to apply for a ticket for a game, but that guarantees you nothing - I used to get knocked back for tickets more often than I got them (for Man Utd). So if you were going to try to see a league game at Anfield it's very unlikely you'd be able to get one legitimately (ie directly from the club). You could get one from a tout outside the ground, or from a ticket agency (glorified touts), but you'll find there's a massive mark up (eg you'll pay £100 for a £30 seat) and you're more likely to get ripped off if they know you're American.

From what you said it sounds like you actually want Liverpool play at Spurs. Your chances of getting a ticket in the away end (ie with the Liverpool fans) are about zero, so if you did manage to get a ticket for the game somehow you would be surrounded by Spurs fans. If this happens, don't cheer on Liverpool - keep quiet if they score, and stand up if Spurs score. There's scarcely any hooliganism in grounds nowadays, but you'd still be asking for a punch if you cheer the away team in the home section.

Wait, for real???

Or you might just get escorted out the ground by stewards. It wouldn't be a great idea to wear a Liverpool top or scarf either. To be honest, if you want to watch Liverpool you'd be best off going to Liverpool rather than trying to watch them in London.

Yes, Awaydays was the one.

As for this love of things scouse, I find it deeply reprehensible. It just feeds their universal assumption that every single one of them is a witty racounteur who is wasted in bar work/taxi driving/street cleaning/bus driving.

But I also thought Machestrians were supposed to have a dour, warm, witty way about them, but they merely seemed to be skate-park kids. I really had no preconceived notions about Liverpool, it just somehow struck me it was a kind of warm place. I wasn't really there long enough to have my illustions dashed though.

In all the books I read, the protagonists always have to hide their colors under their clothes for fear of a beat-down on the way to the game. I should do this on the way to DC United.

Rank Name Citizenship Age Net Worth ($bil) Residence
1 William Gates III United States 50 50.0 United States

...

11 Roman Abramovich Russia 39 18.2 United Kingdom

...
...
...

428 Mark Cuban United States 48 1.8 United States

Cheering on Liverpool would be a bit of a silly thing to do, but you don't have to overenthusiastically cheer on Spurs either to compensate. If you just sit and and watch the game you'll have no problems at all.

Still, the trip down to London for the game could be a bit of an arse. Although you should try and make it along to the pub if you are in town.

As far as I know there's no animosity between Everton and Palace and no real ill-feeling between Spurs and Liverpool so it'll be fine. If you were doing a similar thing at, say, Spurs v Arsenal or Portsmouth v Southampton your reaction might range from some dodgy looks to someone having a bit of a go but in this day and age I doubt there'd be any actual violence.

Looking around Xmas, it looks like your best bet for a home game would be against Watford on the 23rd. It won't be among the most oversubscribed games and Liverpool will probably steamroller them. There's also the game against Chelsea, but good luck getting tickets for that one.

Spurs scored first, and loads of people around them starting pointing at them and doing the old 'Aaaaaaaaaaaah!'. Then Newcastle equalised, and the bloke jumped up and let out a strangulated 'Ye-!' before remembering where he was. Immediately loads of 'brave' people started telling him to fuck off or they'd kill him, etc., and the steward (instead of telling them to calm down) told the Geordie to keep his mouth shut or he'd be out. He sent his girlfriend out, and said he'd meet her after the game. Then Newcastle went and scored again, and as dozens of hate-filled faces turned towards him he sprinted out the stadium without making a sound.

All that happened was the chap in front of me turned round, put his fingers to his lips and went 'sssshh'. The Chelsea fan I went with said he was tempted to lamp me just to save his own skin.

He was quite right that we're fucking shit, obviously, Gareth Barry's dismissal for a glorious professional foul notwithstanding.

(Also the stewards in the away end at White Hart Lane annoy the piss out of me.)

I think the Americans on this thread should all join together and root for Liverpool throughout the season so that we can more strategically annoy everyone on this thread.

xp to myself

But Onimo = bang on re: ticket allocation.

Actually we are making a lot of good signings, I think Dabo and Corradi will add some actual flair to our oft-plodding team (although isn't Corradi a striker? not sure if Pearce would ever sit the Vassell/Cole duo for a furriner) and Barton is back and...oh best to just shut up now and not get my hopes up.

we just signed gabriel paletta aka THE DRILL, he's a centre-half. it's a centre-forward we're after next. very happy with our new 'bad lads army' and i'm liking the look of our side next season perhaps a little TOO much...

When I was in Austin in 2001 watching Chelsea get knocked out the UEFA Cup to Tel Aviv the only other person watching the game was a really annoying Yank who kept going on about shit we were. That bar is now favoured venue for our newly minted Texas Fan Club.

More recently, I watched us beat Barca in 2005 from a bar in LA and there were easily as many Chelsea fans watching that game as there were Mancs watching Utd-Milan on another telly, around half of which appeared to be native.

There wouldn't have been this five years ago: www.chelseainamerica.com

Chelsea: the edgier alternative to Man U. I have no idea how to respond to this.

Blackburn's red rose = red rose of the House of Lancaster. Leeds United's badge features the Yorkshire white equivalent.

Are any teams more, uh, left-wing/socialist than others?

If you're willing to step outside England for your team, may I suggest St Pauli?

(Dave, please don't hit me.)

To the "average" American, mind. Everyone's heard of Man U, but only a few have heard of Chelsea, despite their success.

xps

FC St Pauli (Germany) - the 1968 student generation of football. Their slogans include 'not established since 1910', 'sometimes antisocial, always antifascist' and 'never again racism, never again fascism, never again relegation' (two out of those three are thankfully still applying, though the last isn't). Currently doing a tie in with Cuba to assist with water aid.

Bubblin' under there's a few. Tennis Borussia (Berlin) have a lefty vibe about them. In Italy, Roman and Bologna have a vibe about them which is undermined by a few right-wingers who tag along. Rayo Vallecano in Madrid have a vibe about them, and Cadiz have a growing anti-fascist rep. Celtic have a very left-inclined fan-base, but the club are far from it these days, and Real Betis really can't claim leftyness much these days. Schalke and Dortmund are very working class, but that doesn't translate as left, though Schalke are very progressive on immigration and green issues (and beer).

Honourable mentions to Austria Vienna (reformed in protest at red Bull's takeover, but let down by slightly hoolie vibe) and AFC Wimbledon, but the number one socialist team is...

FC United.

The only club (to my mind) formed as an explicit rejection of corporate influence in football, with a one-member, one-vote structure that rejects money buying influence, no shirt sponsorship, main club sponsor being victims of Bhopal chemical atrocity, aim to activate fans as community football volunteers.

Roma as left wing! Only relative to Lazio's political stance. What's so left wing about Betis? Just because of the Triana fan base? The signing of Denilson didn't exactly scream wealth distribution.

And one could hardly claim left-wing credentials for the Toffees considering our enduring whiteness in the '80s and early '90s, as Tim H mentioned above.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/jamiefake/underboardwalksmaller.jpg

"This fanzine kills fascists". There have been several attempts by the BNP to recruit at FCUM games, and they've been made aware in no uncertain terms that they're not welcome. There's a very scarey far-right-nutter website called R3dwatch, which publishes pictures/names/personal info of their left-wing enemies, and it now has photos of various FCUM supporters on it asking for them to identified so that they can be 'sorted out' in revenge.

Pete - isn't there some vague link between hardcore elements of Chelsea, Rangers, Leeds, C0mbat l8 and loyalist paramilitaries (or am I making this up)?

Can a fanzine really kill a fascist?

If you hide it in his hotdog he might choke on it.

It went beyond vague. I remember Chelsea "fans" rampaging through Glasgow Central as part of the enlightened Casual Exchange Programme following a Rangers game.

Celtic/Arsenal never worked.

The Man Utd and Liverpool links seem to be an Irish immigrant thing but there isn't really a great affinity between the clubs that I can see. There were as many Liverpool school bags in the proddy schools as there were in the cafflick schools.

I like that Rod Stewart thinks comparing his partner to Celtic and Man Utd is romantic ("you're every schoolboy's dream, you're Celtic, United, but baby I've decided you're the best team I've ever seen").

Chelsea's firm is traditionally extremely rightwing of course, but they are a tiny (and diminishing) part of the fanbase and most Chelsea couldn't give a shit about Scotland. (However, our forthcoming friendly against Celtic could test this.)

There was also briefly a Chelsea/Rangers/Linfield fanzine, but that was started by Linfield fans and mostly ignored by the other two.

yeah, but it was a minority. we played everton away in 89 and loads of Huns turned up and caused serious bother singing loyalist anthems, which really pissed everybody off, prompted a big 'keep this crap out of chelsea' outing campaign in the fanzines and pretty much killed the whole thing off.

My point is, Chelsea aren't a Protestant club and although there have been attempts to make them so, they have always failed.

It is secondary at the moment, to be honest. When I went to see AFCW earlier this year I was struck by the air of frustration from the crowd (they were throwing away points at home and dropping further away from a play-off place), and I mentioned this to my mate (who supports AFCW) and he said that while you can get away with a party atmosphere, just being happy that the club exists and what it stands for, for the first year or two, that can't go on forever and eventually the results and the football become more important.

I think the attempted Chelsea/Rangers links were more to do with Fascism (or football's version of it) than Protestantism.

Some Rangers fans are from Northern Ireland and support them.

Some Rangers fans support England as they think it's more loyal to the crown than supporting Scotland. That one is beyond my ken.

Some Celtic fans are Irish and support ROI. Other Celtic fans have Irish ancestry and like to think they are Irish and support ROI accordingly. My grandparents were irish and I don't buy into that at all.

Well, I didn't say it determined it, I was just pointing out that Everton were supposedly the socialists' club (backed by lots of Moores family money, ho ho) but persevered with what appeared to be a fairly racist scouting/development/signing policy throughout the '80s. I mean, we had Mike Treb1lc0ck in '66 but I'm not entirely sure of his background.

God bless Joseph Yobo for signing a new contract even though he must know there's a (vanishingly small, one would hope) contingent at Goodison and especially at away matches who would really rather not see him wear the Royal Blue. I love 'im.

He had a handful of great games - the Spurs Cup semi-final, obviously, but also a league win over Newcastle the following week where he played from the start and scored twice springs to mind.

Cornish I believe.

I'm sure there was a TV show recently (part of that BBC4 season) which stated that he was the first black player to score in the FA Cup final.

There was a poll of Scottish football fans (in an academic book called 'Fanatics!' published in 1997) which showed that about 90% of celtic fans said they'd vote Labour, whilst the figure was only about 60% for Rangers.

I really think a lot of it is done to annoy other Scottish football fans in a "no-one likes us, we don't care" kinda thing

There was a poll of Scottish football fans (in an academic book called 'Fanatics!' published in 1997) which showed that about 90% of celtic fans said they'd vote Labour, whilst the figure was only about 60% for Rangers

Rangers might be voting SNP tho, I don't imagine that many Celtic fans would (certainly don't know of many)

I watched it mainly because Glenn Hoddle was on it. Not scoring, just talking.

I like to think the Real board are reading that and asking each other what a bob is, and checking the exchange rate for Euros.

Apparently Chelsea wants to be the new Man U. The announcer of last night's exhibition game said so. He said that Chelsea is coming here to America to build their brand, become like the Yankees, and become as big as Man U in the minds of the 'Mericans.

Problem being: America is not exactly looking for the next Man U. Chelsea's going to need a Beckham-like star if they want to imprint their team upon American consciousness, and I'm sure they have lots of able footballers, but do any of them pose in sarongs?

Everton looked pretty good last night. Columbus Crew looked better than they usually do. I think 1-1 is a good score for a friendly--both teams can feel happy with themselves. Sebastian Rozental scored a beautiful goal. I think our players really liked the "Toffees"--they kept hugging them from behind. You had some nice thin, scrappy guys in overly baggy, long shorts on the right side--I think a Neville Brother was one of them.

That would be Aaron. You should hear him in the communal bath.

(Nice to hear we didn't embarrass ourselves Stateside, though there's still time for that, I suppose. I presume Club America is the Mexican team rather than an all-star MLS side or, indeed, some kind of voluntary kids' camp XI).

Beckham's bigness due to pop star wife, mebbe? xp

http://www.esmas.com/clubamerica/homenuevo/

Am I off the hook with Markelby?

Wha? That fatso is still playing??!?!?

In Syria or Iran maybe?

*See 90s joke about Bosnian refugee joining St. Mirren*

How are they now playing some other team?

I can't see it, RSB are pretty good and were playing for 1-0 the other night.

He wasn't fat, but he looked like a washed up tennis player. Apparently he's been injured a lot. Last night was the first time I saw him.

Mary did you ever see massive billboard posters of English players in New York (i.e. the Pepsi ads) before Beckham?

Um, no, and I don't remember seeing that one. Perhaps I thought he was just a pretty boy. In Beckham's favor, most Americans have never heard his voice. I was surprised how soft it is.

His entire Rangers career to thread!

His entire Rangers career, errrrrrrr, not to thread...

it's a red tape nightmare Maniche.

there must be a sequal in light of recent, um, disclosures.

He's scouse, he's sound, he'll twat you with a pound, Jamie C, Jamie C

I heard it was mate though, not brother

Speaking of which, it is well worth flicking through a copy of Wayne Rooney's autobiography to look at the pictures. I was particularly impressed with his crayoning-in of St Francis of Assisi.

(Meanwhile, Everton Reserves lost 2-1 to Vauxhall Motors; MODERATOR: Please delete my Bjarn1 V1darss0n fan-fic thread).

tim, what are you on about?

Randy Lerner appears to have pulled out early. Shame.

Villa are knocking 'em in for fun pre-season. They will be this season's Everton0405.

http://tinyurl.com/sydet

you just hear the chants when tottenham play at away matches:

Tottenham Shitspurs

Trottingham Shitspurs

i think people will only be singing those things if they are approximately ten years old.

http://tinyurl.com/hwqx2

"Pompey will be the Blues - in part at least - even when playing away in the coming season."

There are rumours of a new Pompey black 3rd kit will be announced soon.