ADMIN: ILX may have to find somewhere else to live.

so what if they'll all lead to lindsay lohan fansites...

Where was ILX hosted before Andrew took care of it?

Google Adwords ain't goin' to pay for colocation costs. Not at the present datacentre anyway. I'm not going to relocate my server somewhere else, so if someone wanted to start that venture then they can be my guest.

what are the hosting requirements?

Any reasonably current processor. Fast hard drives. 2gb+ of ram. A 4gb MySQL database. Bandwidth usage isn't that huge, but I can't give exact figures.

It was hosted by Phil Greenspun's LUSENET service. We moved because we were essentially killing his machine.

(I say nay as well. Some of my very favourite people in the world post here, and I've tried other places and keep coming back here. As well as the sheer quantity of quality around here, it's still the most user-friendly message board I've come across)

There's no way I'm going to administrate such a thing. Somebody else can have a crack at that if they think it'll work, but obviously keeping it free would be ideal.

I just figure with the amount of money I spend on phone bills, broadband access and beer to stay in touch with my friends, the equivalent of the cost of a pint or two to stay in touch with others doesn't seem a hardship. Others' mileage may vary, obviously.

do such things work? anyone have experience with this?

- The free hosting might be cancelled.
- I do not have the spare time or inclination to raise money regularly and (in effect) operate a not-for-profit messageboard.
therefore
- Other options need to be examined.

-> Would something like this be able to help us out? I can't afford 199 dollars for my addiction, but I'd be willing to contribute some money. :-)

- a dedicated host like the one I linked to above,
- enough people willing to front the money regularly enough to keep it running,
- somebody to administrate the whole thing (NOT ME).

ChipIn
https://www.chipin.com/

ChipIn empowers individuals to connect with people in their social network to collect money for a personal cause, to purchase a gift, or for community fundraising. We make this social ecommerceSM process of connecting and collecting fun, easy and secure. We believe that positive change will result from enabling groups to harness the power of giving. That’s our mission.

I'm afraid I still don't quite get it. They're a hosting company, right? So why can't it just stay where it is, but from now on, it isn't sponsored anymore and we pay? Or are they expensive/stopping the hosting business?

I don't have any real practical advice to impart, sorry. I wouldn't be willing to pay regularly for this and would be uncomfortable with a situation where anyone felt like they HAD to donate a certain amount to keep this afloat.

What would this be?

I'd be more than willing to contribute to ILX, in the same way as I contribute to Flickr or subscribe to newspapers. I have no idea what kind of money we're talking about here, but for it to be manageable, I guess the fund-raising shouldn't happen more than once a year.

There's an argument for setting up an entirely new message board somewhere else, and letting people drift over from here and elsewhere as they will, rather than attempting to recreate ILX elsewhere.

pete's going to have to lure out the mystery benefactor again

I mean both. I'm over it.

I'm afraid I still don't quite get it. They're a hosting company, right? So why can't it just stay where it is, but from now on, it isn't sponsored anymore and we pay? Or are they expensive/stopping the hosting business?

They're hugely, ridiculously expensive. If we had to pay someone to host ILX, it wouldn't be an Australian hosting company.

hoew long is :as soon as possible?" andrew - -any idea? from prev. dealings?

It really depends. I've never worked with the people who are looking after this issue, and it's been more over a year since I had any other dealings with the company. They have stated that "All services that do not have a signed agreement by the 7th of September 2006, will be billed at the current EFTel retail rates." So I guess I'll hear back before then.

There's an argument for setting up an entirely new message board somewhere else, and letting people drift over from here and elsewhere as they will, rather than attempting to recreate ILX elsewhere.

I'd agree with that argument. The ILX codebase is shit. I imagine what would happen would be that several parties would set up several nu-ILX style boards, and the majority of the userbase would migrate to whichever was perceived to have the most sensible/trustworthy administration.

i'd imagine you could find 100 poxy fules willing to pay $24 (or £12?) annually (if you could find one willing to administrate)

QuickTopic board creators/administrators,
Upgrade to QuickTopic Pro

It's just $49 for a full year subscription.

http://www.quicktopic.com/cgi-bin/buypro.cgi?prevurl=/

NOTE: Your QuickTopic Pro subscription gives you 20,000 new messages annually (55 per day on the average), summed across all the topics you've created. If you use up your limit (unlikely in most cases), you can purchase a QuickTopic Pro Message Pack for $39, giving you 20,000 extra QuickTopic Pro messages for the duration of your one-year subscription.

sample user interface:
http://www.quicktopic.com/persexample.html

No poxy fule, no credibility.

It already is. It's not the same at all - that's why it's an alternative.

It's not user-friendly enough and favours smallish communities rather than big sprawling ones like this.

ILX has been smallish communities for at least six months now.

And the interface isn't exactly good for work.

Very true. I'm not so much proposing this as an ideal solution, as one that is currently happening and will probably accelerate.

Gabbneb - I sort of think you're on the crack pipe there.

Yes, but overlapping communities that people can quickly and easily flit between - that's the crucial difference.

It would SuXoR if ILX stopped or disintegrated.

I'd certainly be willing to pay money to keep ILX going on a regular basis. And would also be willing to spend time to coordinate fund-donating activities - I work in accounts so I'm quite good with figures and accounting and stuff. But I would need help on the techie side of it.

I couldn't live without ILX. My life is immeasurably richer because of it.

LJ is crap at big discussions and reviving old discussions, but communities really isn't its weakspot.

I think so too. I certainly would.

Obviously, some people like LJ, but many of us are not ones of them, and a blogging website is not really a viable alternative to an ILX style messageboard.

I'm with Masonic Boom on this - without ILX my friends might begin to understand what I'm talking about.

I'd contribute financially too if necessary.

when we're given the nod to close down. let's take the code, the db schema, and the 4GB of db and we'll make it available somewhere, a few places even. obv the 4GB data is the thorny one. perhaps a mini version of that 4gb as the "last month of ilx"

anyone who wants to sort out new code, new server/hosting can give it a go.

Yeah, get all the ILM types whose careers we've boosted so successfully, Annie, MIA, Dizzee Rascal, Junior Boys etc to make a charidee album for other ilxors to buy.

it's the city threads, not the politics threads or the ongoing tv series threads. i know no-one likes the politics threads.

Yeah, get all the ILM types whose careers we've boosted so successfully, Annie, MIA, Dizzee Rascal, Junior Boys etc to make a charidee album for other ilxors to buy.

-- Billy Dods (butterbubble...)

haha!

i think the balkanization argument is overplayed.

LJ communities are far more decentralised and the convoluted structure makes such movement of posters harder. I'm not saying there isn't a place for it, and there's another perfectly good ILX vs LJ thread, I'm just saying that 'if ILX goes down, everyone move over to LJ' isn't a particularly good solution.

POSSIBLY CONTROVERSIAL SUGGESTION - Considering the amount of traffic this thing gets, would people be wholly opposed to an ad on the front page?

Even if ILX didn't have this hosting problem I wonder if somebody would've started a thread to propose a migration to another msg board that wasn't totally fucked (like this one has been for a while). It's amazing how so many of us put up with it.

It doesn't really matter about balkanisation. Not many people post to one thread only I think (might be wrong though)

Oh this is a big xpost but I don't care

WOW! That'll get us...two quid a month!!

If you wanted to do ads, I would think you want to take advantage of the nature of the audience for the site (ie something music-related or similar). amazon, maybe? who places ads on blogs you read?

Who'll run it, though? It's time consuming, frustrating, and often tremendously boring. All you get out of it is a sense of satisfaction that you're running the thing. You have to put up with people who have different ideas as to how it should be run, and they will try to make you feel bad about the way you've been doing it. The community would also have to be careful about who they put their trust in to run it, as a lot of people who'd be motivated to take it on would be in it for the power and (if it exists) money.

Alan, I would not like to just make the database available to anyone. I believe that would be somewhat reckless.

x-post, what andrew sed

It'd cost well over 200 quid per year...

The rest of your plan sounds great except for... who'll actually do it?

I certainly wouldn't object to having a small advert in the top right hand corner, just above Logout | Johnney B | Settings. So long as it doesn't flash at me or shout or make stupid sounds, ugh.

Saying that, I'd also be happy to fork out some money every month, although I have a bad feeling that this would be the real start of the end.

it would be a shame to lose ilx.
ilg would be pretty easy to migrate, but it'd be weird not having it attached to all these other crazy boards.

I must stress that any hosting would require a dedicated server, as the current codebase thrashes the database so much that it couldn't happily exist in a shared hosting environment.

I must stress that any hosting would require a dedicated server, as the current codebase thrashes the database so much that it couldn't happily exist in a shared hosting environment.

The bandwidth-challenged one would be completely unused otherwise.

(i deleted it) (and felt like an emo darth vader for the rest of the day)

i only became admin as a result being part of the move to nu-ILX

I have some coding skills, but not much spare cash. Would be prepared to chip in (money and labour).

xpost images aren't inline on usenet, mostly

That's very cliquey!

xxpost

2) Sysadmin skills aren't exactly rare on the internet. I'm surprised more people haven't poked their heads in the door. Perhaps someone ought to repost this at ILM? It seems to me that replacing Andrew as techie is by far more tricky than funding the site. I think the first post in this thread probably ought to be tweaked to make it clear we need a new admin.

$199/mth seems like a heck of a lot of money for this server anyway! (it only works for 2 hours per day!!)

surely there's some decent free open source mailing list code thing we can use.

Is that where those things went? Is this why I don't seem to hear about things like that any more? In that case, yeah, I'm calling clique.

I know. I don't get it...

-- DV (dirtyvica...), August 9th, 2006 12:04 PM.

maybe so, but the point is LJ doesn't really increase this element beyond being fundamentally a bit more insular by design - if that makes sense.

The reason the server is so expensive is the amount of processing and queries it gets. Hundreds of people loading threads with hundreds of entries, posting at the same time, all of it grinding away in a computer. Think about how long it takes you to load the longer threads and then imagine the computer that is serving all this stuff, as well as taking posts and all casual browsers too. This isn't just a plain ole' website.

(xpost)

We are the board! We are the people!
We are the ones who take a brighter day
And make it evil!

We are the bored (etc to fade)

I'm in the same boat, because imomus.com has been hosted for the last three years on the same server, thanks to Andrew. Am backing it all up right now, and it looks as if it will move to new hosting in Norway.

I sort of have moved to LiveJournal, but I still come back here because it moves fast, there's a certain passion in the way black comments get spat up on a white page that keeps moving. I agree with Tuomas on the simplicity and elegance of the interface. I contributed a little last time there was a crisis and would happily Paypal a bit more if a robust new solution were proposed.

"leave it buddy. leave it"

it kind of doesn't hold up on this server anyway! :)

Just saying like! If it's on a free one at least you don't that you're not paying for the priviledge of a page that takes a minute to load!

http://www.seedyuk.com/mysql.php

this is all just a ploy because Andrew wants Buffy box sets, AMIRITE?

Considering I have zero interest in maintaining ILX if it's going to cost anyone anything. I'm not interested in anyone's money.

(BTW I'm slightly confused because didn't we all stump up cash for Andrew to own the machine ILX runs off last time? Or is the machine and the bandwidth rental a separate thing?)

The machine and the bandwidth are separate things. I've been given bandwidth for free for years now, and that has now come into question.

Momus - we good a good machine for the time, but ILX keeps growing, thus the blackouts of recent days.

a CULL is long overdue

http://www.fellpony.f9.co.uk/country/haytime/ley1.jpg

Then they came for the Noize board, and I said nothing, because I wasn't a member of the Noize board.

Then they came for me, and nobody said anything because they felt if they didn't like it they shouldn't read it.

a pilot scheme, if you may.

I would be willing to pay a yearly fee. Another option is to go paid-reg-only and charge a one-time fee (a la metafilter/something awful), but I don't know if that would end up having to be significantly higher.

What's the feasibility of taking some of the boards to other locations, and not moving ILX as a whole? I'm peripherally involved with a project that could take ILG, ILF, and/or ILC--as they're smaller boards, would they still need a dedicated server?

Either way I totally support Pash taking over ILX (or just ILE/ILM if a split-up occurs).

I'd be very wary about using phpBB on anything, particularly a hacked version. It normally has a new potential security breach alert released about it around once a week, at least, so you have to be careful to keep *very* up to date with your installation version to avoid risking being hacked.

at this point, ilx should just break up and form solo projects already.

i'm surprised nobody has properly hacked ilx yet (there's been the gay css things before)

I don't really care either way if the archives stay or go (except Trucker Hat Guy, that should be preserved forever, as should a few other threads), but it would be a shame to lose the real-time and conversational aspect, which you kinda alluded to as being valuable yrself

haha Jess Oddyssey

everyone was thinking it...

slashcode? would that work?

crosspost

No no no no no no no no no no no no

I disagree with Jess but only example I can cite right now is the Rough Guide threads which he contributed to massively. Or maybe it really was just a bunch of dicks showing off ha ha.

wait i kno, we can put our fave threads out in book form. that would be gr8

Pitiful as that is, ILX is most of my contact with the human race aside from my family, so I don't want to see it just go.

Hooray for Pash! If I had any usable skills to donate, I would, but all I can do is breakdancing Ken in Photoshop.

REQUIREMENTS:

1. Sponsorship. Whether from Ph4y Cycl3z or The Stichting INGKA Foundation or VIACOM or is irrelevant, as long as we can stay ad-free and rely on a single POC for the time+money sink. Costs are estimated at about $200/month. If you can't help with #2 below, think of an angle to get $200/month, or discounted/free webhosting.

2. Codework. On a volunteer basis, but a two-man review rule couldn't hurt. Again, a single supervisory POC is desirable, someone to take ownership/responsibility for the whole mess.

this is the basis of ALL MAJOR RELIGIONS

yr pal, mo$es

i'll make you vicar if you help me mark

TURN BACK YOU POXY FULES!

how did that * get there

What about benefit concerts, telethons and donation jars at Wal-Mart?

maybe if you view ilx as the extension of a chat room. I think there are lots of people who would be less likely to stick around if it weren't an archived site.

I wish I could offer help with administration/coding, but can't. If a fund gets set up, I'll contribute. After all, we owe some of Scott's freelance work to connections made here. ILM hasn't just boosted the career of MIA.

I'm wondering what it is about ILX these days that people find to be so fucked. I haven't been on here much lately, though so maybe I'm missing something.

Same here and I'm terribly thankful for it.

Abandoning the ILX codebase and moving to a new application like ProBoards, vBulletin, LiveJournal, etc. is a mixed blessing. It may eliminate performance issues and provide some functionality that people expect from message boards, but you lose the ILX look-and-feel. It is nice that a thread opens all on one page from a user perspective - however from a systems perspective it's hell on the server, which is why on-line forums generally use multi-page threads. Unless I'm reading Andrew wrong, some of the poxy fule issues are codebase related. That means that merely moving the existing site to a new hosting environment may not resolve some of these issues?

Switching to a new application also complicates the historical archive. I'm not in the "just let it die" camp. I use the ILM archive as a research tool all the time (it's good for cheap roffles too). There's probably no time/will to undergo a conversion effort from the current format to a new one. Though it sounds like Andrew is willing to host the historical snapshot which the new forum could link to.

On the cash front, a yearly or biyearly payment system would probably be best, like a pledge drive. The month-to-month thing sounds like an administrative nightmare. ILX seems to have a fairly large audience now, so starting the drive now could take advantage of that pool. September 7 is less than a month away, though, so I'd say there's two weeks to get the cash together, and a week or so to secure hosting arrangements and migrate the application. Besides the question of whom do we trust w/ $1200 - $2400 USD, migrating a website is not a minor endeavor. Raising the money to make sure it's really going to happen is a good step *before* we start wasting a programmer's time.

Depending how disruptive the move is (do people have to re-register, does the interface change, etc) there is the potential to shed some users. Paying upfront for 6 months to a year would provide time to build up the user base again before going back to the till. Bad board migrations can kill off a forum, though, even a well-loved one.

Andrew, couple of tech questions, what are the average:
hits per month?
visits per month?
posts per month?
bandwidth uses per day?

What's the size of the active user base?
Is the current db 4 GB, or is that recommendation taking into account room for growth? Isn't the file size limit on MySQL 5 GB or am I mistaken?

Regarding additional hosting solutions, vBulletin has a forum to discuss hosting providers. Since vBulletin is commercial software, the hosting solutions discussed herein are probably suited to ILX's traffic levels: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=11

Back on topic (sort of), I definitely think the archives are important. Whenever I first listen to an old album by an old artist I'll check for an ilm thread on it, becuase there's always a really good chance I'll find some valuable criticism and/or info there. And then, if I want to, I can add my own thoughts. I wouldn't like that functionality to be lost.

Thats true I don't think i ever even looked at ILE until about 2003/4. I always just looked at ILM. Unfortunately I have no computer skills to volunteer.

This is why I think the best solution is to find a new host, freeze ILX, copy the codebase and database to the new server, then begin optimisation on the new server (at some point unfreezing should happen, but I'm not sure when this should be exactly).

The current codebase isn't perfect, but it's got a lot of good features that we would lose moving to another board system (not to mention the issues then of migrating all the old threads)

Dude, have you ever considered, like, stopping torturing yourself and not posting anymore?

xpost if you read upthread, I've commented that I still enjoy ilx. That doesn't mean it hasn't run its course. I know it's a lot of work to actually read whole sentecnes though steal compass, sorry for the xtra strain

How could you insult my dyslexia like that? :(

If you enjoy reading ILX, it's really not the impression yr giving here

oh i'll let go, but i'm taking you with me!

http://www.sea.fi/foto/total_recall.jpg

Done

this eminence grisé sez (and i'm sure he would love that french way of putting it):

"once you're finished changing, you're finished"

I thought I made it clear enough in my first post! Part of the issue, in my opinion, is rather bigger than "well, people still like it!" y'know? and another part of the issue is how wildly defensive people when the possibilities of letting things go is raised - just really hostile & territorial: worth comment I think!

Jessie the Monster, get bent...I mean, by your own reasoning, if you don't like what I have to say on this thread, you don't have to read my posts, do you?

i'll make it shit hot and runnable from an xbox

10 print "ilx is shit hot"
20 goto 10
run

For my part, I didn't mind somebody making that point, it's a good one in lots of ways. I just minded it being made over and over again, by somebody who has a tendency to use that same obtuse repetition schtick on lots of other threads too. But anyway.

You Might Be A Troll If...

class ilx2point0beta {
   public static void shithot() {
      System.out.println("ilx 2.0 (beta) is shit hot");
      shithot();
   }
   
   public static void main(String[] arg) {
      shithot();
   }
}

I can imagine how much of a bandwidth/server burden ilx is though. Trying to to keep it as is and migrate it would be a herculean task. I imagine the current people are finding ilx sucking down more and more resources in bandwidth terms. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of pressure being but on it as it is to leverage folks into finding a new solution?

Also the code currently running must be ancient, I can understand why it's not hacked, esp because as it doesn't present much of a target.
I can't offer any help in finding a solution, all I can do is forsee lots of probs with a subsciption :( It would require full admin attention and it could break down. Good intentions butter no parsnips, where there's money there's law etc etc etc.

If the code is being looked at and you want to try to take some load off the server get people to tag their posts and make the search function process that and maybe headers but not content?

I wonder if this is another sign that I have to venture out into the real world. It rains there. :(

I hate the idea of any other software that doesn't use the ILX interface. Keeping the board's history is also U+K, because being able to revive ace old threads about folk's stupid step-dads is brilliant.

Plan here is to get Pash some hosting, then find people to help fix the code, right?

(reprinted with permission of Int'l Roffler)

Workers Unite?

Sep. 8 - International productivity today skyrocketed for reasons still unknown. What is known is that office worker outputs rose 3,000,000 percent today, with greater concentration in New York, London, Glasgow, Melbourne, DC, LA, and wherever the hell Hastings is, in particular. Researchers at Excelsior Institute International are looking into possible causes for the sudden shift in work ethic. More to come as the story develops.

That's how I'm seeing it.

(Let me say now before I forget that Pash deserves much credit for offering to do this -- he's been here long enough to know what it can entail! -- and Andrew deserves even more for having dealt with this for so long. Frankly, I don't blame him at all for wanting to concentrate on other things.)

That seems to be the path to success. I repeat my advice to Pash to first set up a means to accept these donations people keep talking about.

Let's see what Andrew has to say when he's up and about again.

No way am I going to LJ, for reasons expressed by others upthread (crappy interface, too disparate, basically not ILX). The let-goers can just let go, it's the people who want to preserve and keep ILX and see why it's not just another messageboard that are, by and large, the ones that I will miss most if it's not here any more.

Well if this is the end, thanks Andrew for everything.
If it isn't; thanks Pash -- i will gladly donate whatever $$ is expected of me.

Also, i'll always hold that this board should continue, and it has provided a great service, aside from the usual workday time wasting. It's thru this board that some of us have gotten thru the rough shit that happens in the world(even within the last year: the london bombings, katrina, etc) esp. with the near-real-time interaction it provides.

feel free to kill off half the ILM readership, tho.

I'm assuming any move would take the form of the Greenspun move? New server, new code, but everything looking as similar to the previous version as possible?

OK I won't be of much use but I'm sort of a computer science major and know C++ and Java and the Linux operating system and would be willing to help any way that I can.

And to Pash, Stet and others who have stepped up to help. I wish I could do the same, but, well, I'm kind of useless really :-)

Are the user demands just too high for any reasonable server to withstand a forum set up like that?

Could you limit some of the server demand by requiring that anyone be signed in to post and read, effectively closing it off to random Googlers who aren't interested enough to register?

Paying for the servers is also feasible with a model like both of those have - members get hosted space to place their WDYLL images and dancing GIFs for $25 a year if they choose.

Pashmina has offered to keep it going, so please refrain from pissing on the campfires of those who would like ILX to continue. People who posture about killing ILX bore the absolute jism out of me. Thanks to Andrew and Alan for all their work so far.

I like this format because it's actually egalitarian, I hate avatars and see also all the usual gubbins of compacted comments you get on MySpace or LJ.

(i don't think computing expertise will be that much of a problem tbh, the hosting is the killer. aren't there also issues with the 'licensing' of the source, ie G didn't want just anyone to have access?)

so, who knows Ruby On Rails? 8)

And funny you mention Ruby on Rails, someone else was just talking about that elsewhere...

haha paging dr. freud

By the sounds of Andrew's letter we don't have time to rewrite. Don't kid yourself, its a lot of work (~500k of text). If you have a fulltime job and anything else going on in your life you probably don't have time.

I can't tell if that was facetious or not :-(

Having said that, thank you Andrew for hosting/running the site for as long as you have and thank you Pash for volunteering to take it over.

Also no thank you Tracer Hand for the unfortunate mental image of mark s's cameltoe.

The two user groups for ILE and ILM have, I think, become largely separate. Would there be a bandwidth/server usage advantage to splitting them onto different systems, given that ILE/Noize/etc. receive fewer random Googlers and a smaller number of new threads?

myspace: 11%
livejournal:6%
IMDB boards: 4%
yahoo groups: 17%
makeoutclub.com: 62%

the resultant product would then be this "absolute jism," which could be like distilled water, and you could iron your shirts with it or something. Just think! no more starching needed! You've contributed to the world's energy needs and reduced the amount of foreign chemicals in your life!

now, we need to found a serious expedition to find source of this anti-jism. Whether it will involve the 3rd Royal Cameltoe Expeditionary Force or not will depend on what the commanders of the ground feel is necessary.

Will there be "True.com spelunking"? It is too early to say.

who needs comments when you can read in computer

If you can keep track of the mess more power to you.

there also issues with the 'licensing' of the source, ie G didn't want just anyone to have access?)

There was. I'm not sure there still would be, but Andrew has been respecting his wishes as Alan and I have.

The two user groups for ILE and ILM have, I think, become largely separate. Would there be a bandwidth/server usage advantage to splitting them onto different systems, given that ILE/Noize/etc. receive fewer random Googlers and a smaller number of new threads?

Last time I looked in the spring, ILE and ILM both clock in around 80 percent of the volume of ilx's message table in the past year, noise board was pushing 10 or 15 percent. I made a cute pie graph but I forget where I posted it.

i figured it was some art world ref i didnt get

I actually just meant "is money an issue, and can we do something if it is?". It's become very clear since then that money isn't the issue. Unfortunately, apart from a desire to see this place, and the people that make it so, remain pretty much as it is, minus the poxy-fuling, I don't have much else to offer.

* and without several other people I like sharing online space with even though our paths rarely cross, just picking Dan because he's said he's not willing to pay, which is fair enough.

FWIW if I can help out in any way, not that I know a jot about c++/mysql or any of that malarkey, count me in.

As for the money, I think any donations should be voluntary, maybe a frontpage link so people can donate to a paypal account or something similar would be a start.

It would be that *fucking simple* if it was about the money. It's about someone to do all the techie stuff. Unless you propose paying someone a whacking great SALARY to do it.

/me digs out programming manuals.

It doesn't support multiple boards though, but it's filled with all that Web 2.0/AJAX/etc. crap. Plus it's extensible in a way that reminds me of WordPress, MovableType, etc.

or Flash Gordon

Which is why it's worth saving. Seriously.

Seconded.

I'm not saying it's a great solution, but if Cnet would be willing to host/help us improve the site, would this be worth considering?

In any case, Pashmina is a hero. I've got lots of friends with technical skills who could also be easily bribed (one is a fiend for "special projects"). Let me see what I can do.

Who's still using shit browsers these days?

Otherwise, let's just go back to alt.music.alternative. I can send out control messages for alt.ilxor.ile and alt.ilxor.ilm.

According to the old log we did 50 million hits between Oct 11th 2003 and Mar 30,2004. So about 8 million hits a month, I'm pretty sure we are doing more then that now.

visits per month? Don't know, don't think we track this.

posts per month? Based on the first 6 monthes of the year, 78,182 a month.

bandwidth uses per day? Don't know.
What's the size of the active user base? Define active user base and I may be able to tell you.

Is the current db 4 GB, or is that recommendation taking into account room for growth? Isn't the file size limit on MySQL 5 GB or am I mistaken?

I believe MySQL fixed that table limitation awhile back. The problem was often Linux didn't like files bigger then 4GB but apparently Linux 2.4 can just be patched to go above 4 GB, NTFS handles 2TB supposedly not that I know from personal experience.

I am impressed by the admins' virtue.

On average it was 93,818 posts per month.

Vanilla does seem to have advantages, to be sure. Hmm.

this reads like an election. which one is Badnarik?

There's support for avatars and all that crap, but you can also turn it off, and you can maintain the plain-text look of ILX with some style sheets. I don't know how it would scale to such a huge community, though.

-- gear (speed.to.roa...), August 9th, 2006 2:03 PM. (gear) (later) (link)

And that's why I need a new job.

That's the FAT32 filesystem that can't handle files above 4GB. Advantage of FAT32 is that both reading and writing are fully supported in both Windows and Linux. Neither really use it by default though; it's best for something like an external drive that you want to be able to read from any OS

NTFS, Windows' default filesystem , can support files up to 16TB; however, as of yet writing NTFS in Linux is not safe yet (unless you spend lotsa money and get a separate NTFS driver, like Paragon), and reading is somewhat slow I believe.

Ext3 is the default filesystem for Linux. Stupid Windows, however, can neither read nor write Ext3 by default. You'd need a program like Partition Magic, and it's mighty slow. Ext3 is the one that can handle filesizes up to 4TB.

None of this has to do with which computers can access the website. In fact it's fairly irrelevant to anything on here; it's all just technical jargon. It won't affect anything, really...

And Euai Kapaui, I'd just figured that in 300 or so posts many had already offered their services, and I was simply redundant. Maybe I'm too cynical.

Just to give an idea. Haven't been able to calculate actual bandwidth volume, though.

I should stress that we haven't actually been evicted yet. Knowing that there are folks out there (like stet) who know computers and might be willing to optimise is good whether we move or not.

1) Like seemingly everyone else who want it to continue at all, I really, really, really want ilx to continue in a clearly recognisable form, ie without those ubiquitous messageboard "features" which are pure hell
2) I'm totally willing to pay (as indicated upthread), but don't think I know enough about database stuffage to contribute techwise :(
3) Andrew deserves total thanks for his services so far -- he also matteroffactly does Right Things in times of trouble (fundraiser some time back, first post here etc). Much credit to all programmers etc as well obv.
4) From what I've seen of mod action and mod discussion, Pashmina would be a perfect nu-Andrew. Very happy he's interested.
5) The opposite of absolute jism is clearly not negative jism or anti-jism, it is relative jism.

Referers
Referers ordered by visits (google excluded)
Different referers 3
1) 359777 none
2) 3 http://diehliniraq.com/v-web/gallery/Diehls-Party/johnfirco_loftus\
3) 2 http://www.assfistinganalfisting.com/huge-dick.jpg/\

??

Also No. 1 thread is Fuck You!!!! Is this last month or ever or what?

This is wat too much off topic, muchos apologies.

Also can someone be nominated for Gold watch purchasing duty?

No, it could lack charge and still be absolute.

Why isn't it directly linked to something like Freaky Trigger but more "markety"? Too fake?

All the people that dick around here giving casual reviews of music and movies could easily create the main content.

And some of the other shmoes who don't write could sell their wares on a shopping section. Music, t-shirts, self-published books, etc.

There's lots of smart and talented people here and a wider readership than might be realized, I think... all this on a site that offers NOTHING to wave your relationship to it in public.

Don't you guys know how cliques become subcultures? No? I'll tell you: when someone is willing to pay for a piece of it to parade around in public, whether it be a $2 tape or a $10 shirt (punks)... or, on the grander side of things: a $60 book and a $80 shirt (artsy elitists).

Some simple ideas for any enterprising 'Xor: shopify.com free cart solutions, lulu.com

I don't want this to be a subculture, basically. I don't want random fuckers strolling in wanting to be part of it, just because it's cool. It's, I dunno, just *wrong*.

I have no idea if anyone else feels like this, really. Maybe I'm not your average ILXor. If this became a commercial site advertising for "hipster" posters begging to be part of the ILX scene, you can count me out though.

That whole post sounds like spam.

It's too late for *that*. But you're right, and Andrew is right. This is not to be a business, else it will die an ugly death.

NO.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/olem/gcouch.jpg http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/olem/henfap.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/olem/shimuracurves.jpg http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/olem/faceintoheart.jpg

xpost tabhunter: two.

Nah you'd be unable to.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e33/rolocoaster/ilx.jpg

YOU'LL PAY TO KNOW WHAT YOU REALLY THINK! PRAISE "BOB"!

Actually, Butt, you're full of shit.

Your challenge: design an ILX shoe. You have a budget of $100 and 24 hours. Make it work!

Replace "Run DMC" with "ILX".

I disagree w/ him/her as well, but -- excuse ME -- at least it was a constructive suggestion?

Poor Andrew.

A GIS on "future shoe" yields this:

Poor Andrew.

Oh, come on. Andrew is not going to shrivel up because we're dicking around on an important thread.

Might just work.

I know some female ILE posters have some really nice cookies...*exaggerated wink*...

(First thing I'd do: Purge the code of table-level locking, which is probably the major bottleneck, given that ILX most likely runs on MySQL 3.x or at best, 4.x. G'bye XPOST!! Muahahaha!)

xpost

oh wait

I say there should be a separate thread just for this guy and Ken C to swap spit and not even come close to solving the problem, so we could all collectively not read it.

</Jewish mother>

You are doing Andrew a disservice.

My apologies, if so. 'Twas not my intent.

You'll pardon me for pointing out that the emperor's code-piece has been invisible for some time, though.

This board could be better. No one is arguing that.

You've just come off sounding like an idiot. What do xposts have to do with table-level locking? Nothing.

However, I can see why nobody is stepping forward to help, given the warm welcome for such. You'll pardon me while I retract my offer and offer TIA for all the followup "good-riddance" comments to come.

So long as nü-ILX remains avatar-free.

(andrew edit: let's not post images in this thread)
-- timmy tannin (timmytanni...), August 9th, 2006. (pompous) (link)

ahem. the hen fap t-shirt is fab. but please stop.

myspace: 11%
livejournal:6%
IMDB boards: 4%
yahoo groups: 17%
makeoutclub.com: 62%

You forgot: prison : 5%
witness protection / hiding 10%

I'd like to second everyone's thanks to Andrew for past and present efforts, and Pash for what's (perhaps) to come; I'm not one of your compulsive posters but I'm nowhere near ready to let ILX go yet.

I can't offer either money or expertise at the moment, as I am currently without gainful employment and my dba/code experience is strictly Evil Empire stuff, but if any non-tech assistance is required you can put me on the volunteer list.

I'd be happy to contribute cash once I'm working again, but I'd prefer to see it done as voluntary donations rather than paid membership, and I don't want fancy avatars and shit like that. Another forum I visit regularly has a little control that shows the current level of funds in the coffers and deducts the daily running costs so we can see how close we are to bankruptcy. It works well.

there's a lot of people here that code for a living, yes. but few with the exact skillset and only a handful that've actually seen the code in question (which'll take months to get our heads around). i know andrew's talked before about a complete rewrite and alan has rewritten whole chunks here and there and i can guess at the effort and time that took, effort and time i can't commit to. i will be happy to chip in, yes, but taking over day to day running is a different thing and a big thing. also, i think hosting is the bigger problem, albeit one we can buy our way out of to some extent.

a fresh, clean rewrite of the code, open sourced etc is all well and good but the current code has several years' worth of bugfixes and security enhancements in it and sometimes that's more valuable...

> Shopify is built with RUBY ON RAILS and you guys clearly like that!

the ruby on rails things was a joke - it's the slashdot bigots' current buzzphrase of choice. ajax being the other.

I'm going to look into hen fap t-shirts.

Actually, Ruby on Rails is a pretty good platform from what I've seen of it.

Another theory: we start writing a replacement and imitation from scratch, then we can open up the source, have some kind of version control, and everyone who wants to can have a crack at it.

Yes I know, not helping.

in my estimation to rewrite it all before relocating would take someone dedicated to it - working on it like it was a job - possibly 1 or 2 weeks to get the major functionality redone.

on the other hand starting up with what we've got and doing a behind the scenes rewrite is a great idea.

i c the ruby on rails suggestion was prob a joke, and i don't yet know enough about it, but i hear it's good as a "prototyping" model. i still reckon for future-proofing, php is still the best bet. trouble is the codebase is a nasty ball of twine to look at. it looks like it was written by G as a learning exercise and without other coders in mind. a rewrite using modern php methods, using classes/objects etc would be a great start.

there is room for db optimisation in the code, and we've had offers from db coders to help with the code. it will be up to the server's admin to set these ppl up with accounts.

if we just kept going down the line of improving the current code, it still needs to get to a point where the coders are happy to see it go public. there are 2 barriers to get over there., 1st g (when last asked) didn't want the code public, without him pitching in here i can't speak for him, but i bet over time, and with other ppls (really actually minor) mods to it, he's probably not so fussed. the other barrier is ppl playing silly buggers. it is not unheard of for users to get carried away exploiting the laissez faire coding of ILX and spoiling it for everyone else. opening up the code as is, would have all manner of dick-waving about this or that exploit – say someone spotted an obscure way to inject stuff in to sql inadvertently that would compromise the user id base. not good

Ha, the last project I worked on had a functional spec not entirely unlike that.

I personally would prefer if the site functionality - the look and feel of the UI - were to remain identical to the way it is now. It is so very quick and easy to use/easy on the eye compared to other fora. It's a pleasure, really.

The ability to undelete posts/threads would be good, on the admin side - I accidentally deleted a whole thread once when clearing up a bunch of image crapflooding, and couldn't do a thing about it, also the bulk delete by date/time/ip range would be useful - less so since reg-only seems to have killed the spam problem for now, but still useful for the occasional bit of crapflooding.

The main problem from the user end is obviously the site's recent tendency to gunge up and poxy fule everybody from about 4pm 'till sometime in the evening gmt. Obviously there's something wrong there that needs fixing quite urgently.

As far as the hosting goes, we can sort that out. I'm assuming we need to obtain all of the following:

A dedicated server
a space to locate it in, long term.
bandwidth.

This is do-able. It's the coding I'm more worried about.

First thing I'd do: Purge the code of table-level locking, which is probably the major bottleneck, given that ILX most likely runs on MySQL 3.x or at best, 4.x.
I say there should be a separate thread just for this guy and Ken C to swap spit and not even come close to solving the problem, so we could all collectively not read it.

-- Tab Hunter loves to take his shirt off (fluxion2...), August 10th, 2006 4:41 AM. (kenan) (link)

btw, thread undeleting has been possible for some time now (not sure just how long, but i did implement that i'm 95% sure!.

(pasing thort: i'm all about the wordpress at the mo, and having checked the code for the akismet spam filter, it looks like it could be simple to patch that in to ilx.)

if we do stay put, can i put in a public plea to andrew to be ready to set up some more coder accounts.

surely that's the whole idea of code inspection? i mean, what you said is like saying "if you let someone proof-read your writing they might start dick-waving about your spelling mistakes. not good"?

Andrew stated a while back on Mod Req that he was thinking of rewriting the whole thing - if we had a spec sheet and a opensource CMS to start from, how nasty could it get?

$99/mo for a US-based colo for the boxes from Australia, with 300gb transfer (1.5/mbs)
£0/mo for a UK-based 1U, with max 512ks upload, no cap.

Neither are all that enticing. I've looked into grants as well, but they all take more time than we have to apply for.

that's the only reason to ever do one!

Can you start the thread for discussing the codebase? That would be great.

I am actually robbling, I admit