Tom, pleaze Delete Neu-Neu ILM

noise reduction leaves a weird watery residue

ILE is still great, by and large.

I BET YOU FEEL REAL GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF NOW.

but really just ignore. READ the title of the thread and who's posting and then don't open it if its geir or calum or whatever. that's what i'm doing. there are some OK discussions nicole.

Something needs to be done, "don't look at it" is a dead end which is stupid in relation to anything, if someone makes a point about anything you could say "don't look at it/read it/listen to it". It's pretty dumb.

no it isn't. if trolls are ignored they go away. simple.

how much space does a thread take really. there are always going to be too many threads bcz we have abt 60-70(?) fairly active users.

you look at the title of the thread. how long does it take to decide if a thread is going to interest you or not. a few sec at most.

LOOKING FORWARD TO READING YOUR INTELLIGENT AND INSIGHTFUL THREADS.

Gierbot the exception to the rule?

(this has come up before BTW, ronan loves complaining when he can probably do something about this)

Problem is, a lot of people just look at the crap that's posted and up and leave without making a big pronouncement about never posting again. It's no coincidence that a lot of the more insightful posters aren't around much nowadays.

Actually, this isn't true - and there are one or two very prominent posters indeed who have been making noises to this effect off-board.

some would argue he isn't. but really, who could be upset by him. he has this one idea on music and doesn't want to argue abt it. so don't. he doesn't use any other names (as far as i know) so this is a v easy thing to do.

and they may go. for a bit. they might come back. or not. and if they don't they'll probably be forgotten about (though their commnets are there, and new posters can marvel at some of the archived commnets)

''Problem is, a lot of people just look at the crap that's posted and up and leave without making a big pronouncement about never posting again. It's no coincidence that a lot of the more insightful posters aren't around much nowadays.''

ppl do get burnt out by the whole thing. trolls are a v convinient excuse. eventually most of us we'll be somewhere else in a year or ten.

some do, some don't. i don't call posters that entertain me 'trolls' tho'.

I think we've identified the root of our problem here.

I am arguing for ignoring so called trolls. I haven't attacked anyone and if they feel they have been they should come back here and say so.

you're not suggesting changes. and you're whining as usual ronan. and you love it!

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''I think it's a bit sad to hear you accuse me of "whining" and attempt to belittle me when you use ILE to discuss your lack of a social life/girlfriend regularly''

but you're still whining/overreacting tho' (I mean, to accuse me of attacking moderators is kinda funny). you always think things are sad/depressing when you are the person who can do something abt this by posting threads that are insightful and intelligent or whatever.

I have never posted a thread on my social (or non-) social life or one on relationship advice. In fact it was only one post on someone else's thread which i thought fitted in there.

no wonder there are so many list threads.

I really resent this attitude, and to be honest I might as well stop being polite. The thread I started compalining about the boards got alot of answers, yes, and I accept that so what that does not make it important or a good thread.

But the reality is lots of people agreed with me, changes were discussed on other threads and they were made. You imply that I was the only one who felt ILE was crap and I threw a tantrum and although everyone else disagreed they decided to change things just to placate me or whatever.

This is utter bollox, the thread is ages old now but you know full well as does anyone else that lots of people went on the record as agreeing with me. Changes would not have been made just because of me, and you know that full fucking well too. Changes were discussed and made the same way any other changes have been discussed before their introduction.

You accuse me of whining and yet doing anything and yet all you ever do is attempt to end thought or shoot down someones efforts. This has been a consistent thing since Mel's radiohead comments which you childishly sneered at last year.

I argue or "whine" about things I care about, if you want to argue with me and say I'm wrong then fucking do it on the threads and point out where exactly. If you don't then don't. Frankly I'm sure you're delighted now as I'm quite annoyed, but it's a petty victory.

How about for once not being such a spineless fucking dork and actually setting out your stall and getting behind something, having an idea, arguing with someone beyond petty fucking squabbling. I'm sick of your constant snide comments, frankly I shouldn't even give them the time of day but it may be the only way to get a sincere response.

You obviously have some problem with stuff I've posted, you've never pointed out these problems at the time, your accusation is pretty vague. I don't see you responding to mark or tom's threads with a "so what", or the kind of attempt to end conversation you are so fond of.

ILM is hard work because there are robots like yourself who contribute absolutely nothing because the idea of caring about something or someone getting annoyed over a band they like or something is totally fucking alien to you, is emotion really that difficult? If so you really could do with getting out of the fucking house for once.

I just wanted to say that.

even if that's the case (which you're right, most ppl have agreed so far in thsi thread) what's wrong with disagreeing and putting another point of view. dan doesn't think geir is a troll for instance (and he has argued this elsewhere).

''You accuse me of whining and yet doing anything and yet all you ever do is attempt to end thought or shoot down someones efforts. This has been a consistent thing since Mel's radiohead comments which you childishly sneered at last year.''

I said i was sorry for those (and it was a bad day for me but yes i was an idiot). even so, you could point out that I've been sneering at the latest radiohead thread, and its been largely ignored. but ILM has a killing time at work aspect to it.

''How about for once not being such a spineless fucking dork and actually setting out your stall and getting behind something, having an idea, arguing with someone beyond petty fucking squabbling.''

I'm not squabbling. throughout this thread I have picked on specific comments and tried to put another view point.

What it comes down to is: I don't think ignoring trolls is a bad idea (or 'dunb'). I've done it and many have. remember how b*cky was ignored by the majority and she went away.

Also, many new moderators are being introduced and they are having to learn abt it. they are being tested at all times but steps are being taken (a new yahoo group has been set up so that moderators can talk and a second opinion on things can be obtained).

''You obviously have some problem with stuff I've posted, you've never pointed out these problems at the time, your accusation is pretty vague. I don't see you responding to mark or tom's threads with a "so what", or the kind of attempt to end conversation you are so fond of.''

I have only had lenghty args w/you on two threads i think. I've never had any problems with the stuff you posted bcz frankly, I hardly read 'em. we have met on these type of threads and I just think that you're overreacting to all of this.

''ILM is hard work because there are robots like yourself who contribute absolutely nothing because the idea of caring about something or someone getting annoyed over a band they like or something is totally fucking alien to you, is emotion really that difficult?''

I care deeply abt ILM. I get annoyed at music just like you and everyone else. and i am made of flesh and blood. I just don't think killfiles are the solution to anything.

hey graham, set up a spell checker or something...;-)

but as far as this thread goes I have done nothing wrong and have tried to argue with everyone and not just you ronan.

oh, and this one: I did start giving sincere resposes (you know, the commnets where I'm quoting someone else, those are sincere).

but once you started being an idiot then it had to be jokey/insincere etc.

After he was asked to post less threads, the only time the board was spammed because of him was when every fucker decided to start a joke topic about him at the same time.

I see the difference but I think their behaviour has the same end result.

One extra thing: the OP10 was prob bcz of me. I posted a thread abt the beatles' 'Red album'. geir did an OPO beatles the next day. and then he just said 'one. or ten'. and that I think was the beginning of OP10. loads of threads but not so many this week as ppl have got tired of the novelty (even i got annoyed but i ended up posting three of those).

and there'll be more of this shit. there will be more noise.

Usenets current state is the result we desire to avoid.

this is not now, nor has it ever been an unmoderated board. The moderation here is light compared to other internet fora, certainly, but it is not "free". If you want a "free" forum (in both senses of the word) then try here:

http://groups.yahoo.com

they have the tools for you, if that's what you want.

Julio eloquently argues the case for the prosecution.

I blame hstencil for this.

Does this mean if you get a dick up your ass, you want to be hare once in a while?

Maybe, but it looks like you've only bothered to read about three of them. You can't be loving it that much.

BAHAAHAHHAA....

Anyway this whole thread was idiotic and I wish I hadn't got so annoyed but I don't have anything to prove around here anyway.

I don't have anything to prove either but I am going to stand up for my 'ignoring it' type args (even if you think its fucking stupid thing to do). this is a public board and as a consequence you get ppl you're not going to like.

I am going to keep arguing bcz I like this place and have posted here for two years.

not everyone thinks that geir and email are trolls.

tom is right: think "troll rehabilitation" works is partially how we got to this point in the first place

''sure maybe ignoring it is the philosophy but then ignore it, and don't tell other people to ignore it, ie shut up.''

if you stop whining then i might.

I think much of the difference between R & J here is because there is approximately zero overlap in what they are interested in musically - I doubt Julio reads Ronan's hugely enthusiastic threads on house records, and I don't suppose Ronan reads Julio's Derek Bailey and free jazz threads, so they don't see each other's positive contribution to ILM.

I agree with Nick above about the word 'troll' - the way it is being used here, it is almost useless. What Geir, Calum and EM@IL do has nothing useful in common. Geir's single track mind can be infuriating (though I think it's funny more often), but since he stopped creating so many threads, I can find nothing remotely wrong in what he does. EM@IL would love to be annoying, but everyone pretty much ignores him - he is that most pitiable of creatures, a troll who isn't sharp enough to really trouble anyone.

Calum has started some perfectly good threads on which he has contributed perfectly good posts, but he is the one who troubles me, if only a little, because I think if I'd first shown up and a proportion of the first thread titles I read were overtly misogynistic, I wouldn't have hung around, and I am pretty sure some others would say the same thing. I do worry a little that he will put some good people off, particularly women. However, I don't think he is necessarily just doing this to annoy and distress people - as I said, he makes quite a few perfectly good contributions. Has anyone asked him to keep his fear/hatred of women out of the headlines, at least? Surely an attempt at a reasonable request is worth a try? I suspect it wouldn't work, because he is utterly convinced that he isn't at all sexist, but I would have hoped that someone might have tried this before asking moderators to delete or ban him or something.

I don't what yr point is, you are finally right about something. you just love to have a good whine, that's all.

Is there anyway any of what I'm saying is not true? No. Is there any excuse? No. Is there any chance of Julio apologising, admitting he often acts like a dick on threads where he has no idea what the source of passion is for the person posting it? No.

I look as much of a twat now for actually getting riled into responding but the reality is this has been on the cards for ages, I did not start it, and I think that's glaringly obvious. As much as I mock, I genuinely believe Julio flippantly reads threads, gleaning only a very vague gist of what the point is, he does however detect when someone feels strongly about something, and his only response to this is to tell them to shut up.

I have seldom if ever seen Julio attempt to discuss something, I have seldom if ever seen him show he has any idea where someone else is coming from. Even here I am told to "quit whining", in the usual condescending way. I'd rather appear a twat myself if it makes you realise what a wretch you are.

Repeat after me: STOP YOUR WHINING!!!

do this a few times, it might do you some good.

This thread is rapidly heading for the playground. I'm sort of enjoying watching it.

I AM A WEREWOLF AND I'M SAYING HI!!!!!!!!AND I'M TELLING RONAN TO STOP HIS WHINING!

''He picks his battles really because he's so spineless but it was always going to come to a head, I doubt anyone else would put up with childish fucking "so what" comments on every thread where they feel passionately about something.''

lets take this thread. I tell some ppl to ignore trolls etc. ronan thinks its dumb and thrashes it. I am still trying to reason with a few ppl like noodles, nicole etc. ronan come in and thrashes it. I start making jokes bcz i think its the only sane response and whole thing goes down from there.

I suppose the one person who i will apologize to is noodles who is a great guy and is concerned abt things. I like ILM and I didn't like this crap one bit. believe it or not I didn't.

From the album "Where Have All The Merrymakers Gone?"

i had visions, i was in them
i was looking into the mirror
to see a little bit clearer
rottenness and evil in me
fingertips have memories
mine can't forget the curves of your body
and when i feel a bit naughty
i run it up the flagpole and see who salutes
(but no one ever does)
i'm not sick but i'm not well
and i'm so hot cause i'm in hell
been around the world and found
that only stupid people are breeding
the cretins cloning and feeding
and i don't even own a tv
put me in the hospital for nerves
and then they had to commit me
you told them all i was crazy
they cut off my legs now i'm an amputee, god damn you
i'm not sick but i'm not well
and i'm so hot cause i'm in hell
i'm not sick but i'm not well
and it's a sin to live so well
i wanna publish zines
and rage against machines
i wanna pierce my tongue
it doesn't hurt, it feels fine
the trivial sublime
i'd like to turn off time
and kill my mind
you kill my mind
paranoia paranoia
everybody's coming to get me
just say you never met me
i'm going underground with the moles
hear the voices in my head
i swear to god it sounds like they're snoring
but if you're bored then you're boring
the agony and the irony, they're killing me
i'm not sick but i'm not well
and i'm so hot cause i'm in hell
i'm not sick but i'm not well
and it's a sin to live so well

Yes. I-uh-nee.

Here's a photo of the sleeve for Monica Webster: