Why don't British people "get" Kiss?

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It always seemed a singularly American thing, the stuff of all my wussy brit imaginings, a kind of Dazed And Confused (the film) thing, a beer thing, a teenage thing, a car thing, a VINYL thing, the weird way in which men in make-up can hold rapt a stadium full of MALE men. But any English person would be hard pressed to name you a single Kiss song. What happened? Are the same things that made Kiss so integral to many an adolescent music fan in the US also factors that put off their transatlantic counterparts?

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

why do American people "get" KISS?

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Duh, because they're British.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

But Horace, that WAS part of my question. Quantify them for me.

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

do English kids play with action figures?

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

because makeup signifies different over there

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

do English kids play with action figures?

Hell, yeah, and they put on cute little "American" accents when they do.

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:02 (twenty-two years ago)

because they have their own crap to cherish. no need to take on ours too.

― jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

btw, what did you think they played with? Wood? Flour? Live animals?

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

C'mon, this is one of the best questions I've seen here in a long long time: someone please ditch the one-liners and go to it!

(NB: I fully expect someone to be get skeptical about the premise of the question, but it definitely rings true to me -- could someone from the UK offer a more detailed sense of attitudes toward Kiss there?)

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:11 (twenty-two years ago)

me = US born and bred and never got Kiss

― Neudonym, Monday, 7 April 2003 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

because kiss suck, dude

― bobo t, Monday, 7 April 2003 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry for the one-liner, but I'm behind at work:

for the same reason Americans drive bigger cars than Brits do.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

do the English like.....TEQUILA?

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Why didn't American people "get" Slade? (Before "Run Runaway", I mean).

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Did Kiss ever get promoted in England at all? I don't remember them at all growing up. I don't think there's any antipathy towards them in England, more like apathy. They're just not known.

That, and they suck, of course.

― Ben Williams, Monday, 7 April 2003 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

No, you've got it all wrong! It's isn't Kiss who suck, it's YOU that sucks!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

God damn you people the thread is not called "Do Kiss suck or not" it is called "Why don't British people 'get' Kiss."

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Kiss didn't sound as fey as they looked. That explains it all, really.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

jel gets them. Does this make him, like, alternative and esoteric compared to the masses who listen to populist swill like Pulp?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Quite.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

(nb: Like most Americans I don't "get" Pulp, so there you go.)

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

do british people really not get Kiss? it seems hard to believe. i don't understand how anybody can not get Kiss!

― di smith (lucylurex), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:35 (twenty-two years ago)

could someone from the UK offer a more detailed sense of attitudes toward Kiss there?

nabisco, I only speak for myself, but Kiss are certainly not in the "canon" here, not even in the "nostalgia" canon. Perhaps a worthwhile comparison would be Alice Cooper, who had a few solid singles that people here remember him for. I'm gripping at straws here, but could it be that British people see Kiss and the whole make-up/theatre rock thing as shallow? Compare also to david Bowie, who did this but somehow managed/succeeded in making it seem conceptual?

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Also meant to point out-the only Kiss song people seem to know is "God gave Rock N Roll To You", and that's from a movie parodying (to us, anyway) American teenagers/metalheads - therefore ironic, and something they are more comfortable with.

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

"I went to England too, there wasn't much to do" ("Rockin' in the USA")

― dave q, Monday, 7 April 2003 19:37 (twenty-two years ago)

"the only Kiss song people seem to know is "God gave Rock N Roll To You""

Plus it was an Argent cover.

― Charles McCain (Charles McCain), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Diamond - spot on w/ the Slade reference. (I'm reminded of Dave Davies re Van Halen's "You Really Got Me" - "Our version was about fighting for something, Van Halen sound like they've got everything they need already")

― dave q, Monday, 7 April 2003 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

5{see the point with Pulp, but they are posited as a "clever", "literate" band who happen to make catchy songs with mass appeal like Disco 2000. I hope this doesn't sound like I'm taking sides-as someone who from a quite early age hated any music that was too "British" (though this has changed, I still never liked The Smiths, though), I never liked Pulp at all. That's just how I see it. Slade is probably a better comparison. Gary Glitter, maybe even Thin Lizzy, but they were bigger in the US, no?

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

American's like KISS cuz they did the makeup/theatre rock thing but were able to make it shallow and not conceptual. They're the American Spice Girls. Do the English like t-tops?

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

When you have The Sex Pistols why would anybody triffle with KISS?

― christoff (christoff), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

And Julio had to come to Toronto to hear Journey! Britain cracks me up.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

American's like KISS cuz they did the makeup/theatre rock thing but were able to make it shallow and not conceptual.

I think that's a really great point, actually. Tell me you weren't just being sarcastic.

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Why do Americans (strike that: American rock critics) think "irony" is some integral quality of British culture (cf the way Christgau practically froths at the mouth every time he writes the words "David Bowie")? It's cynicism, not irony!

― Ben Williams, Monday, 7 April 2003 19:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I wasn't being sarcastic - "BIG" and "DUMB" went over very very well in America in the Seventies (the Ramones' mistake was that they weren't 'big'.)

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess I was just wondering why the same isn't true for the UK. And whether there is any way to approach this without dredging up what can be an incredibly tired argument (The whole "pretentious brits" vs "americans who don't appreciate irony" blah blah blah-Just read ILM for evidence against this stupid cliche!)

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

British ppl hate to be seen to be enjoying anything unselfconsciously because that makes them appear weak and in a society shaped by years of divide-&-rule imposed from above and subsequent battery-chicken autocannibalism that is the one unbreakable taboo. This also explains why instead of 'ethics' they have 'manners'

― dave q, Monday, 7 April 2003 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Fair point, dave. And you're perfectly well-placed to make it. So now tell me what you LOVE about Kiss.

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 7 April 2003 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Space Ace! duh

― dave q, Monday, 7 April 2003 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Also I think G Simmons was a very underrated bass player ("Strutter", "Anything for My Baby"). They had a way with a riff more than a few times. I liked their movie also(P: "It's quiet in here - too quiet." A: "You're right! (Sings) SHE WANTS A ROCKET RIDE") and thought the scene where the crowd reacts violently to "Rip and Destroy" was very inspirational. And...

― dave q, Monday, 7 April 2003 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

(OK I was just going to link to some of the 580 Kiss threads I STARTED but the 'search' thing is just trying my patience. Was that a serious question?)

― dave q, Monday, 7 April 2003 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

two words: david bowie

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 7 April 2003 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

The British didn't get Kiss cuz they had already lived through years of men in make-up and platform shoes shouting out roller rink anthems. After 100 Mud and Sweet knockoffs do you really need more? They "got" Status Quo though, whereas we only "got" Foghat. I understand why the U.S. "got" Bush, but I don't understand how the U.K. "got" the fun lovin' criminals.

― Scott Seward, Monday, 7 April 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Coz in the 70s we had T-Rex, Bowie and the Pistols. Why bother with Kiss?

OK, controversy time - British bands are generally different from American bands in attitude. Yank bands are in it for blow jobs, groupies and boasting about shagging celebrities. British bands tend not to be. Say what you want about Oasis but Liam and Noel have RELATIONSHIPS, Gene Simmons just sits about saying "I've fucked over 3000 women aren't I great?" Well, erm, no - you're a twat who's found out that being a rock star attracts lots of dumbass female groupies. Hardly rocket science.

Bands like The Smiths, The Stone Roses and Pulp were never really going to blow away America the way Guns n Roses or Limp Bizkit are. Why should they? The Smiths etc were in it to make a point, to change lives, to make people feel a bit less awkward about themselves. Fred Durst and Axl Rose like sniffing cocaine and having sex threesomes. I cheered Ian Brown when he said Guns n Roses were the worst band in the world because, really, they were...

Maybe I'm being too general. The whole madchester scene was probably the way Britain reacted to American stadium metal, and the way America reacted to it was through grunge. Then grunge attracted the Jock vote anyway and Britpop happened.

For me to like a band they I have to relate to them in some sort of way. I can't relate to Kiss and doubt any British people can. Besides which, they really were shit.

― Calum, Monday, 7 April 2003 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Fred Durst and Axl Rose like sniffing cocaine and having sex threesomes.

For crissakes, who doesn't??

― Sean (Sean), Monday, 7 April 2003 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Calum, your dislike of American bands would be ten times more convincing to me if you could ever demonstrate that you'd heard of more than a dozen of them.

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

''Maybe I'm being too general''

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I like some American bands and dislike some American bands. One of my fave albums of all time is Deserter's Songs, and I'll be at The White Stripes concert in Glasgow in two days so... hey.

― Calum, Monday, 7 April 2003 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

but I don't understand how the U.K. "got" the fun lovin' criminals.

What, are they that obscure in the US? Cause I can tell you, it's not only Brits that 'got' FLC.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

calum have you heard of bill wyman?

i am so bemused by this thread! american glam is GOOD. so is british glam. ITS ALL ABOUT BOYS WEARING MAKEUP.

― di smith (lucylurex), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the fun lovin' criminals were a european phenomenon. They are remembered here for one song at best.

― Scott Seward, Monday, 7 April 2003 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

KISS SUX if you got ears. And as Geir proves, the Brits got ears.

I vaguely miss the Fun Lovin' Criminals. Or at least "Scooby Snacks."

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I want more examples of bands that are huge somewhere, but are losers in their country of origin.I remember reading that Swing Out Sister have lots of Japanese albums. But maybe they are still big in the U.K. too.

― Scott Seward, Monday, 7 April 2003 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

For crissakes, who doesn't??

I don't want a sex threesome with Fred and (modern) Axl, yech!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I vaguely miss the Fun Lovin' Criminals. Or at least "Scooby Snacks."

Shit, the singles from Loco were pretty cool too, especially the song that goes I met the finest girl in my life/that night/at gay night...shouldn't they have a new album out by now?

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with Ned. My love for Fred is purely platonic and I really don't like him being associated with sex at all. That's why I'm glad he uses the term "nookie."

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

jel gets KISS = I'm happy

Jody doesn't get Pulp = I'm sad

Anthony doesn't like KISS (of all people! b-b-b-b-but DESAPARECIDOS!!) = I'm even sadder

It all ends with Fred Durst sex talk = all is well with the world again

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Kiss released one great album. 99,99 per cent of their (mostly American) fans didn't "get" that album though. (Speaking of "The Elder" here....)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

My problem with Kiss is really the rhythm section...and maybe Paul Stanley too. They're fun for a couple minutes but I can't take too much in a row. They're kinda like Korn with me. Something I'd think I might like except it just comes off SOOO plodding with me.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Compare Kiss to Korn again, Anthony, and I'll have you skinned alive, and made into luggage.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Kiss released one great album. 99,99 per cent of their (mostly American) fans didn't "get" that album though. (Speaking of "The Elder" here....)

Meet the .01 percent that did.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

No, the Kiss/Korn comparison is pretty spot-on, really. Same target audience, same makeup fetish, same formulaic songwriting, same money-hungry attitude...

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:09 (twenty-two years ago)

No, the Kiss/Korn comparison is pretty spot-on, really.

Except Kiss did occasionally make decent records.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

And both band sell action figures of themselves!

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

kiss had cool names except for gene simmons and paul stanley.

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Same target audience,

Not really.

same makeup fetish

Korn don't wear make-up!

same formulaic songwriting

You've got anuses for ears if you think they sound alike.

, same money-hungry attitude...

That's assuredly not limited to Kiss and Korn.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

This is a really interesting question and reminds me slightly, though I don't know why, of the pinefox's one on the Smiths. Sadly though I can't muster up any shred of caring to be even bothered about furthering an answer. I fear that may be an answer. To a question. But not 'why?'.

― Cozen (Cozen), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

because they were busy getting Abba

― SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i always saw kiss and alice cooper as attempts at something like bowie but were to homophobic to go the whole way. tahts at least my explanation as to why americans didnt quite "get" ziggy or pre-80s bowie. still doesnt answer your question. im american and dont like kiss. not particularly good music or compelling image. well spitting blood is always cool but besides that.

― tom cleveland, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 01:57 (twenty-two years ago)

If you were a 11 yr old boy and it was around the time of the Bicentennial then KISS was THE ultimate rock band. No contest

― SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 04:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I was a teenager when KISS appeared and I didn't like them. Nor did critics if I remember correctly. The critical raves now are mostly for their cheese factor and oldsters "pining for the fiords" of their youth.

The T-Rex, Bowie, and Pistols comparisons are way off because they don't sound or look anything alike. I do remember seeing Slade live on TV back then and kind of liking them, but that was mostly because they seemed to have a sense of humor about themselves, something totally absent from Kiss.

And Alice Cooper's first LP was released in '69, before Bowie had any kind of presence here. I think "Space Oddity" was popular here long after the British release.

― nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 04:28 (twenty-two years ago)

see the difference is an 11yo doesn't READ record reviews he checks out the pics,he listens to FM rock radio. KISS sounded a lot better than ELP/Heart or some shit. an actual teenager is on a different plane altogether

― SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 04:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Everyone got into Kiss when they were little, right? An attempt at a serious answer: Kiss to me were like superheros -- is that any less of a thing in the UK (forgive my ignorance of what a UK childhood is like)?

― Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 04:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I never consulted a record review while eating Frankenberry and watching cartoons to tell me that Destroyer was the only record I needed ever

― SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 04:38 (twenty-two years ago)

If you were a 11 yr old boy and it was around the time of the Bicentennial then KISS was THE ultimate rock band. No contest

I was 7 & it still applied. I think they sound like shit now, though. Not even the nostalgia helps.

― Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 04:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Whats odd is that if you went to see KISS in 76 77 78 your mom would drop you off at the door or go in with you (if you were like 8 or something)
But if you saw KISS in say 82 83 it was all old dudes!?

― SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 04:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha Ha, a bunch of old dudes trying to pick up 8 year olds.

― nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 04:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd like to drop Queen into the mix-camp as hell, big in the UK, pretty dumb really, let's be honest. Do they disprove any theories or bolster what's already been said.

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 08:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I think maybe this is the wrong kind of question? Kiss undoubtedly has a good number of British fans; I know that big dumb rock can certainly have as prominent a place over there as it does in America, and Kiss obviously fits that mold. I think the difference is just in, I dunno, cultural impact? Here in America, Kiss weren't just a really fucking popular band, they were sort of emblematic of some things that were (apparently) important to whole lot of white, middle-class adolescents. Not to go overboard, but they owned a big piece of the zeitgeist, and one that gets the spotlight very prominently.

To return to the tenor of your thread (in that nothing I've said has actually addressed your question, haw haw), for whatever reason they just didn't have the same impact or presence in Britain, and as such no matter how popular they may have gotten, they never had much of any "importance".

― Adrian Langston (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 08:56 (twenty-two years ago)

''And Julio had to come to Toronto to hear Journey! Britain cracks me up.''

heh, sundar. don't make any conclusions abt the british bcz of me.

loads of ppl here like loads of corny US rock. I can enjoy some of it on the radio but I'm not gonna buy it. that would be a waste of money.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 08:57 (twenty-two years ago)

A Blast from the past

Calum: The Americans never forgave the Brits for not buying Kiss records
Custos: No, American never forgave OTHER AMERICANS for BUYING Kiss records.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Is it really American of me to be wondering what exactly there was to "get" about Kiss? They're not exactly Nietzschean, you know. My only conclusion is that British people do not like to rock 'n' roll all night and party every day.

There seems to be a lot of Britischers that "get" Andrew WK, though, so perhaps my judgement is hasty.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Noone ever answered whether the Britishcers like TEQUILA

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

We RAISED OUR STANDARDS!!

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

i always saw kiss and alice cooper as attempts at something like bowie but were to homophobic to go the whole way.

Try the New York Dolls.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

My only conclusion is that British people do not like to rock 'n' roll all night and party every day.

hmmmmm.... obvioulsy we've been misrepresented

FTR - I like Tequila slammers, so long as I don't have to drink them (they have enormous play value). And I was too busy enjoying AC/DC to care about Kiss. Anyway we had Queen, Led Zepp, Black Sabbath - there was no need for Kiss.

― nick.K (nick.K), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

We had Kiss and the Ramones -- there was no need for England.

(joking)

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex fer Prez!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

THE REAL REASON BRITISCHERS HATE KISS: Their bars close at 11pm. They hate fun.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Knights in the Service of Satan vs. Sir Ian McKellan

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

We like tequila. Ally, you are OTM, sadly. :(

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Knights in the Service of Satan's "2000 Man" vs. the Rolling Stones' version of same from Their Satanic Majesties Request

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Their bars close at 11pm. They hate fun.

Precisely why they're no longer an empire!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

On the other hand, we can still smoke in our bars.

― Ben Williams, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Touche!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

(I am having an affair with a random computer.)

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

If yr a gurl, no one seems that keen on stopping ya in the U.S., either. BEST OF ALL WORLDS.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

you can still smoke in bars in New Jersey

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

If Bloomberg gets his way, soon there'll be no drinking and talking in NYC bars either.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

nothing but onion rings

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

mmm onion rings

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

do the Britischers like onion rings?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

no. they like cucumber sandwiches. and that's exactly what's wrong with their culture.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

that and not liking KISS

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

(nb i've never been to england)

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

but you sure do like the Beatles!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Apparently, Americans like the Beatles MORE than Britishers.

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I never would've guessed that JBR hadn't been to England.

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

you wanted the best, you got the best!

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

At least, that's what the guy from Philly who lived next door to me at university said. He expected everyone in the UK to be able to burst into choruses of "All You Need Is Love" at the drop of a hat. He also spent a lot of time with his shirt off and made me lots of coffee with Kahlua in it. Must be an American thing.

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Jody, that is the best cartoon yet. God, will that Red Meat thing ever get old? The answer is yes, obv, in about two days, which is unfortunate but such is life on ILx.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Nrodicskillz - was he trying to seduce you?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Nordicskillz rather

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

James, you think?

...my...god

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Nrodicskillz

neuroticskillz?

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually I think there's something to the idea that that behavior is an American thing, it'd explain me at least.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Do cuts and bruises also make you feel like a man, Ally?

He...KEPT saying that...

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

was this guy's name Burt Reynolds by chance?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

To play Devil's Anglophile...

Surely, the UK has done this kinda fashionably camp power rock stuff before with Sweet, Slade, Gary Glitter, and what have you, right? Sure, musically, it was a lil' different. I'm guessing KISS was just 'wrong place wrong time' for impressing those across the Atlantic, not as much as 'not getting' it thing.

(How popular were KISS in the rest of Europe, anyway?)

America never really 'got' Monty Python. Is this something to be proud of as well?

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

the entirety of american "higher" education to thread

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Blimey, donut bitch, I've never met a person who couldn't quote Monty Python skits verbatum in the U.S., what are you talking about? You find me a 25-year-old male who cannot sing "The Bright Side Of Life" and I will shoot him. Wait, that's not what I meant to say.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

America never really 'got' Monty Python. Is this something to be proud of as well?

I don't think that's true. Maybe the rest of America didn't get it, but here in NYC, I know FAR too many folks all too ready and willing to recite Python dialogue ad nauseum.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Ally & Alex in NYC = two bodies sharing one brain.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

KISS were even huger (disturbingly huger) in Italy than they were stateside. EVERY record store (even the one's who barely stocked rock) had at least five KISS albums.

When Monty Python played the Hollywood Bowl exactly what country were they in?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, i'd take my last statement back if it weren't for Ally's contribution here. :)

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

(Journey sucks.)

― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I was playing Devil's Anglophile, not anyone who has more time to think through arguments than sift through all my Hurricane #1 CD singles or whatever ;)....

But I am curious, and I am missing some history here -- never read a KISS biography or anything of the sort. So KISS never even got to play a pub in England? Were they that unpopular? I'd gather they had some audience, right? (I'm asking sincerely, not rhetorically)

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Ally & Alex in NYC = two bodies sharing one brain.

http://www.notoart.com/joker.JPG

(nb: I've been dying for an excuse to call you the Joker ever since you started this Harley Quinn nonsense, Mr. In NYC.)

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

No, they did play England -- Chris Lendt's behind-the-scenes bio has some fun tales or two -- but it seems like they were indeed much bigger on the continent.

That picture, meanwhile, says so much. :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't let my wife see that.

At the next NYC fap, everyone must wear one of these:

http://www.graphittidesigns.com/Store/graphics/t-shirts/dc/rossjokerhq.gif

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I think your wife would be more bothered by that pose, you know.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

"There seems to be a lot of Britischers that "get" Andrew WK, though, so perhaps my judgement is hasty."

Erm.... Ally I'm guessing you've never set foot in the UK. NME gets hate mail whenever they feature Andrew WK, the man is DESPISED by all four people who know who he is. He's sold FUCK ALL over here. Spread it around.

"THE REAL REASON BRITISCHERS HATE KISS: Their bars close at 11pm. They hate fun."

Ah, a good American trait - confusing Britain with England. After all, we wouldn't want to point out the liberal drinking laws in Scotland where bars open until 3am (which is virtually mandatory) and later, or Northern Ireland.

The States also gave the world Axl Rose, foreign sanctions against developing countries, the Star Wars programme, a nutty President and dancing with rattlesnakes. Just a thought. We all have our faults so let's not turn this into a us VS you thread. Nationalism is ugly.

― Cal um, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Andrew WK has sold more in the UK than he has in the US, spread the word turd

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

America gave the world Fruit Loops by the way - which Brits don't like for some bizarre reason (seriously they tried to launch them over here decades ago and failed). That's a better thread - why don't Brits like Fruit Loops. For folks who haven't been to the States - go there just so you can eat Fruit Loops in the morning. Mmmmmmmmm.

P.S. Andrew WK has maybe sold 5 albums over here. So he must have sold 4 in the USA. Didn't they use him for the Jackass movie? I think they did...

― Calum, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)

The real reason Calum hates Andrew WK: he has no titties.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

By "he" I mean Andrew. Calum might have man-boobies, I don't know.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Britain gave the world Calum

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

'They're not exactly Nietzschean, you know'

"Heaven's on Fire"?

― dave q, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

THE WINNER IS DAVE Q.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Yawn, take it you didn't even try to answer my points Ally.

And no I don't have man boobies.

― Calum, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh. That's disappointing. That ruins my image in my head of you as Meatloaf-in-Fight-Club.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I have this picture of you and in my head you have the hugest butt known to man and a spot problem. Am I right or am I right? I think I'm right?

P.S. I'm sooo not fat! It's so funny that you'd think that. Haha, that's made my day actually.

― Calum, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Ally does have junk in the trunk reputedly

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Can I prsume you never went on any peace marches James?

― Calum, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I dress like a harlequin a lot, Calum.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:15 (twenty-two years ago)

When you presume you make a priest out of you and me

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

The States also gave the world Axl Rose, foreign sanctions against developing countries, the Star Wars programme, a nutty President and dancing with rattlesnakes.

Wait wait, I just actually read this post. What do you got against rattlesnakes, comrade? How do you think they feel when they go to a club, thinking they might meet someone who really loves them, but they go and they stand on their own, and they leave on their own? I'll tell you how they feel. They go home and they cry and they want to die. It's people like you what cause rattlesnake viciousness.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw this programme about a rattlesnake dancing club in West Virginia. It was one of these rare examples where you cheered on the rattlesnakes to bite the moronic rednecks and put an end to their miserable, prejudiced Bible bashing life. But what really bothered me is that MUMS AND DADS were bringing their young kids along!!! WTF???

The snakes looked petrified by the way and this mother got bitten and said if she died it was for the best and God would look after her son. Surely there is something in the air around West Virginia that makes people this stoopid?

― Calum, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I always hate the way people in West Virginia are always bashing the Bible.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Kiss.

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Act yr age mama, not yr shoe size.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:38 (twenty-two years ago)

You don't have to watch Dynasty to have an attitude.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

It helps though.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

But listening to Dynasty might help.

...cos, y'know, it's a Kiss album....

...I'll get my coat.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

they seemed to have a sense of humor about themselves, something totally absent from Kiss.

B-b-b-b-but:

My Dear Lovers,
Nothing arouses me more than seeing you getting off on me. It makes me work that much harder to please you. My body is yours, yours is mine. We explode together. When I'm on stage, I'm yours...take me.

-Paul Stanley

(that pretty much anhiliates the whole 'not-going-all-the-way-with-the-gay-shtick' theory, too.)

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Why do certain people keep insisting that Kiss have no sense of humour?!?!?! THEY WEAR SEVEN INCH LEATHER HEELS AND GREASEPAINT!! HOW ON GOD'S GREEN FUCKIN' EARTH COULD THEY POSSIBLY TAKE THEMSELVES TOO SERIOUSLY!?!?!?!?!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

So does Christina Aguilera and she doesn't seem very funny at all.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

(oh cool Sundar mentioned that I like kiss, thanks dude!

Crazy Crazy Nights made it to number 4.

And Lick It Up and Crazy Nights were both top ten albums. But then W.A.S.P also had a top ten album.

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and yeah, I never got pulp.

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think it is just Kiss. How many of your mid70s to early 80s FM rock staples really were as popular in the UK as the US? This being bands such as: Van Halen, Boston, ZZ Top, Styx, Lynnard Skynnard, The Eagles, Bob Seger, etc. (all of which are still in top rotation in most of the same stations that played them during that time).

I would imagine that the corporate promotion machine which coked these records into heavy play on every US rock station and then into mid-late model sedans and vans with corresponding shows at every local arena didn't work the same or as well in the UK, where radio was nowhere near as deregulated and open to such marketing.

― earlnash, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm with Alex (though I admittedly am not a Kiss fan, at all)...how can people think Kiss was serious? Lots of pyro, huge heels, fire breathing, blood capsules, every interview ever...Kiss' self parody seems like it would be easy to spot. Kinda like ICP, another act I'm not that fond of, but at least recognize the fact that they aren't serious.

-
Alan

― Alan Conceicao, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh. That's disappointing. That ruins my image in my head of you as Meatloaf-in-Fight-Club.
(*sigh*) Ally...whats the first rule of Fight Club?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

ok, speaking (er, typing) as a born-and-bred american here who lived in the ukfor a few years... KISS specialised in the metal-light power ballad stuff that always did better in the States.

the dumb fun stuff that i love from kiss ('rock + roll all night', etc) was done just as well by Queen, so no need for KISS over there...

the dumb dumb stuff.... well, there may be plenty of it in both countries, but i think it's a difference in tone and attitude. KISS,for all their makeup, were never quite ironic enough to be clever and never quite genuine enough to be eccentric. in the states, that stuff matters far less.

and callum: ever read the dave davies biog? before he goes nutty on the ESP/alien tip, it's all about the sex.

― bucky wunderlick (bucky), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread entertains me greatly.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.mindspring.com/~stairwl/images/fightclub.jpg

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

FUCK! I'm gonna get that Paul Stanley Quote Tattooed to my chest!
With a picture of a wombat...just to make it more surreal.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Ally & Alex in NYC = two bodies sharing one brain.
I'll only endorse that Harley Quinn/Joker juxtaposition if I get to be Ra's al Ghúl.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

The best way to 'get' Kiss in the UK in the late 1970s = read 'Howard the Duck' comics.

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

It fits.

http://www.skycop.org/giftshop/toypix/batman/rasalghul.jpg

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Fuckin-A Right!
Da Demon Head Posse is in da Hooooouuuzzzzzeeee!!!
Ya step to me and my main nigga Abu will yell "Infidel" and beat on your pork-eatin' asssssss!

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Custos, do you realize this means I can buy you for $5.76?

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, Ally, if you ever want to...ahem..."rent my services"...I'm willing to negotiate.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Do you do "free"? My bank account is kind of being nullified by summer/autumn tuition fees ATM.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Send nude photos and a list of favorite bubble bath oil scents and we'll see what we can set up.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, enough flirting. Everyone on the forum is staring at us.
Lets get back into the musical fray.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, what, I don't immediately offer up nude pics and suddenly our love is no longer? Typical.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

No, I was just overhearing the whispered conversations in the background.
(hey...that girl in the harlequin costume and that mentalist with the long cloak and cheesy goatee keep...hitting on each other...I thought this was a music forum...looks more like a meat market! sheesh!)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Meat market, asylum, Village Voice wannabes, what's the difference?

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Um...lemme think....

(long pause)

...er, um....

(long pause)

Okay. You win. I give up.
Whats the answer?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Um. Jimmy Fallon.

I don't know, I panicked. I don't like being put on the spot.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

"Judges?"
EEEERNT!
"Ooooooh, I'm sorry, but that answer is incorrect. Don Pardo, show her some of our wonderful consolation prizes..."

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I hope the consolation prize is Ed Norton.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

"Tyler isn't Here..."

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread has gone straight to hell, hasn't it?

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

(*sigh*) Okay, ILM'ers. I'm done. We now return you all to the thread now in progress...

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Unless of course anyone want to try to prove that Kiss is somehow better than GWAR. Which they aren't, but thats just my opinion.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.canopyclub.com/can2/assets/images/gwar.jpg

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/36573000/jpg/_36573416_robbie3_150.jpg

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Nothing like a big blast from the Cuttlefish of Cthulhu to get a thread truly and thoroughly off-track. Right?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought those two images were important to the discussion.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Now, ask yourself...pit any 4 of the...what...11 members of GWAR against any 4 members of KISS...and you tell me who would come out victorious?
"You Didn't Bargain on the power of the Death Pod, now Didja? Huh HUH HUHHNH HUUUUUHHHNNNH!?"

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

What if the Wu Tang stepped in and took Kiss's side?

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Nu-uh. Wu Tang Kung-Fu is no match for the Skumdogs, who violently depopulate entire planets.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you're failing to take into account Ol' Dirty's contribution to violent repopulation.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Huh?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I STUMPED CUSTOS I WIN!

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

there are so many pics on this thread, but none of Kiss.

That's fucked up.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

No, honestly Ally...what is this "violent repopulation" of which you speak. His "Little Baby Jesus" persona is chaste and innocent.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think we ever came to a concrete conclusion as to whether or not Britschers indeed dislike rocking 'n' rolling all night long and partying every day, actually. We should return to that before we tackle ODB.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

'kay.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.nydailynews.com/ips_rich_content/252-odb.JPG

(ODB's really starting to look like Warren Sapp!)

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

That's taking things too far.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

can we have some funny shots of Paul Stanley looking stunned please? He always makes that face in videos like "Heaven's On Fire" and I wanna see it. If I wasn't at work I'd rummage Kiss sites for the pics but I can't be seen doing that.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Meanwhile, back on topic.....

I don't think it is just Kiss. How many of your mid70s to early 80s FM rock staples really were as popular in the UK as the US?

You make it sound like the UK never produced any fatuous, bloated and oft-embarassing rock acts! What the hell do you call Yes, ELP, Genesis, Status Quo, etc.?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

MUST...RESIST...EASY...JOKE.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I had never heard of Kiss till 'Crazy Crazy Nights' came out in the late 80s and was a moderately big hit I think. And I wasn't totally musically clueless - I just don't think they'd made much of an impact on the British public. I assumed they were another of the endless crop of bad soft metal bands. I didn't really know anyone at school who was into metal. One or two geeks maybe. Then Guns N Roses and later Jane's Addiction came along and were pretty popular more widely, thought I still thought it was all stupid.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

My point about Kiss, REO Speedwagon, Boston, Journey, Van Halen etc. is that they were nowhere near as popular in the UK as the US, for better or worse.

Status Quo, Wishbone Ash or Savoy Brown probably could be British bands of that time period that were much more popular at home than the US.

I would imagine that Yes & Genesis in their hey day were probably as popular in the UK as the US. This is also probably as true for some other bands such as Judas Priest or maybe Thin Lizzy.

Kiss probably never caught on in the UK because the height of their 70s popularity corresponds with punk rock and it was too sugary soft for UK heavy metal fans.

The costumes and big show definitely worked for Kiss in South America and Japan.

― earlnash, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh yeah - I've just remembered I had one friend who liked Iron Maiden, though he'd kind of laugh about it.

Did American Kiss fans 'get it' in a kind of 'we know this is ridiculous, isn't it great' way or.. not?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I HAVE ONLY TWO QUESTIONS AND I WONDER WHY THEY HAVE NOT BEEN BROUGHT UP BY OTHER ILM'ERS WITH MILES AND PILES MORE INSIGHT THAN MYSELF.

Kiss was big in the US in 77-78 right? This was about the same time that Punk was blowing up in the UK, correct? Could it be that Punk rock and the social circumstances that surrounded it in 77-78 did not allow KISS to get a strong foothold in the UK while they still had the cultural momentum behind them???

question #2:

Taylor is an English Surname btw.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 01:05 (twenty-two years ago)

you just beat me to the punch Earl!

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 01:06 (twenty-two years ago)

America is a huge place that is very difficult to conquer in terms of rock music. It has been said on ILM that an English artist needs to spend at least 18 months in the US if he intends to make any cultural impact at all. Could it also be that becomming the biggest band in America took so much time and energy that KISS did not have the resources to conquer Europe/UK. Also, was America so finanically lucrative that they did not need to bother with a bunch of Chip eating, goofy toothed, queen loving limeys?
For the first half of question two: The way the UK and US music fan behaves is diametrically opposed.
UK: Willing, nay, *lusting* to passionately give into the NEXT BIG THING!
US: Miserly and grudging in giving away its attention or affection.

UK: Just as willing to completely forget about a musical act that dissappoints them.
US: Fanatically loyal to those rare acts who eventually win over their grudging respect.

UK: Demands a near-constant flow of product.
US: Be sure to put out an album every 2-3 years, so people remember you exist. Oh, and be sure to be on tour forever.

This explain both why the US is such a hard sell and why a UK discography looks so bizarre in comparison to a US one.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 01:16 (twenty-two years ago)

good answer custos.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 01:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Survey Says....

BZZZZZZZT!

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 01:38 (twenty-two years ago)

(its a lame 80s pop culture reference. Family Feud. a bad game show. lots of banjo music and dumb questions. Whenever someone answered a question their whole family would chime in "good answer! good answer!"; then the host would turn and pompously ask "Survey Says..." and if the contestants answer was wrong, it the display would go BZZZZZZZT!)
This useless pop culture minute brought to you by the council of people with way too much time on our hands.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I remember it. You could also make strokes and bob pollard references.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 01:50 (twenty-two years ago)

jess still wins tho.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 01:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, Robbie certainly gets it.

http://robwilliams.virtualave.net/newsinfo/3.jpg

― Arthur (Arthur), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 02:14 (twenty-two years ago)

"What kinda world are we livin' in, when a guy dressed us as a BAT gets all of my press....wait'll they get a load of me..."

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 02:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, is Gene Simmons magazine "Tongue" still in print?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 02:18 (twenty-two years ago)

(In honesty, I haven't really known many Kiss fans offline. I think there was a guy in my Grade 4 class. I do remember people talking about them in elementary school. Apparently someone at York is doing a thesis on Kiss but I don't know him. I like "Rock N Roll All Nite". The only other songs from the makeup era I know are "Beth" - my sister liked that one - and "I Was Made For Loving You". From the non-makeup era I've heard "Lick It Up", "You Make Me Rock Hard", and "Hide Your Heart", all of which sucked.)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

(I used to assume that the rest of their stuff was like "Rock N Roll All Nite" and therefore they were a great band. This thread gives me the impression I was wrong?)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

They used more chords than the Ramones (sorta) but were supposed to be writing stupider songs (allegedly). So they were probably just prog-punk in the end but since everyone thought that meant Alternative TV in the UK, nobody cared. Uh, maybe.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 04:20 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

does anyone here like the taste of ... TEQUILA?

― Tad (llamasfur), Wednesday, 18 June 2003 07:33 (twenty-two years ago)

five months pass...

Yank bands are in it for blow jobs, groupies and boasting about shagging celebrities. British bands tend not to be.

um, someone here's never heard of Led Zeppelin apparently.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 08:55 (twenty-two years ago)

um, someone here's never heard of Led Zeppelin apparently.

...or Black Sabbath, or Iron Maiden, or Motorhead, or Def Leppard, or....

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, but we like to pretend the don't exist.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 15:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I regret this thread, as I do many threads...

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

After reading this thread I'm still baffled at the fact that English bars close at 11am. What the hell do you guys do after 11am? I'm really reconsidering my trip (It was really one of those 'i must do this before I die' or 'I must do this when I get the cash'things, you know, cuz I don't have any money) to England.

― Cacacman Flores, Tuesday, 16 December 2003 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Why don't British people get kiss? Maybe if they brushed their teeth once in awhile ho ho ho.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahahahahahaha.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't really answer the question, since I'm American, probably "get" Kiss, but still am not a fan.

I would guess it has something to do with the fact that Kiss looks controversial, act like they're controversial, and sell like they're controversial, when they're really not. Sure there were other musicians doing the makeup and theatrics thing, but Kiss did it because it was, like, OMG, CRAZY AND CONTROVERSIAL! And like Gene Simmons, with that tongue, that just yells "SEX!" so uh, controversy! That's cool, they really push the limits! But in a completely, middle-of-the-road way.

Kiss is mainstream American culture. If they weren't originally, then people eventually figured it out.

― mike h. (mike h.), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 18:42 (twenty-two years ago)

>>I would guess it has something to do with the fact that Kiss looks controversial, act like they're controversial, and sell like they're controversial, when they're really not.<<

But doesn't this description fit couple hundred British bands, too?

― chuck, Tuesday, 16 December 2003 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't read this thread, but I'd guess that maybe one reason Brits didn't get Kiss is that Slade and the Sweet had already done it 300 times better. So maybe they didn't *need* Kiss like Americans did.

― chuck, Tuesday, 16 December 2003 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Plus there's the fact that Kiss only made one really good album (their debut), and just a few great songs after that, but whatever...

― chuck, Tuesday, 16 December 2003 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Until I saw this thread, I had no idea that KISS weren't popular at all in the UK. I always figured if you're big in the U.S. you're big everywhere.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Slade and the Sweet had already done it 300 times better

Errrr.....no.

Plus there's the fact that Kiss only made one really good album (their debut), and just a few great songs after that, but whatever...

I don't think "fact" is really applicable in the above statement, Chuck.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

this thread made me giggle way too much. thanks to ally, custos, et al, my day is that much brighter.

― Felcher (Felcher), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, I just remembered that Alice Cooper and the MC5 had already done it 300 times better, too. So Alex is right that my above point about Slade and the Sweet had little merit, and I apologize deeply for it.

― chuck, Tuesday, 16 December 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I never said that Slade and Sweet had little merit. I just differed with your point that they "did it 300 times better" than Kiss. I don't really see them doing anything that simillar, honestly. Alice and the MC5 are closer to the mark. You might want to throw the New York Dolls in there too, while you're at it.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't believe I agree with Chuck about anything, but here we are...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 16 December 2003 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

>I never said that Slade and Sweet had little merit. I just differed with your point that they "did it 300 times better" than Kiss. I don't really see them doing anything that simillar, honestly. Alice and the MC5 are closer to the mark. You might want to throw the New York Dolls in there too, while you're at it. <

I never said that you said that Slade and Sweet had little merit, Alex; I said that you said that my ARGUMENT had little merit, which it may or may not have. The Sweet and Slade's stomp-and-shout bubblemetal was way closer to Kiss's best songs than the Dolls were; hell, "Saturday Night" by the Bay City Rollers sounds more like "Rock and Roll All Night" than anything the Dolls ever did! But what the fuck, okay, if you insist, the Dolls did it 300 times better, too.

(Then again, most Americans maybe didn't get the Dolls or the MC5 EITHER, at their times. At least not as many as eventually got Kiss. And more got Aerosmith, who WERE kinda Dollsish, than got the Dolls.)

― chuck, Tuesday, 16 December 2003 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

And Aerosmith did it 300 times better, too. And so did Ted Nugent.

― chuck, Tuesday, 16 December 2003 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Just notice that the lack of interest in Kiss is a British phenomenon, not a European one. Here in Scandinavia, Kiss were huge!

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

After reading this thread I'm still baffled at the fact that English bars close at 11am. What the hell do you guys do after 11am?

Well, this is true, and not true. Pubs in England almost all shut at 11:20, but this depends on which part of the country you are in and how they interpret the licensing laws, but you can then go clubbing which if you are unlucky will only be open 'till two, but again, depending on where in the county you are this can extend to up to six in the morning or even later. Pubs open from 10 in the morning onwards if you are desperate but there are exceptions, unlicensed drinking dens, or in some cities you can find pubs which have pubs that are open from say 6 in the morning where there is a wholesale market or somesuch. of course in Scotland they have a different system which theoretically means 24 hour drinking, but I've never spent enough time up there to fully suss it out.

From March next year the English Licensing laws are getting a long overdue overhaul after they were originally brought in during the First World War to stop munition workers staying out drinking all night From March until December 2004 every licensed premise will be relicensed under a new system that allows local councils to set theoretical 24 hours drinking hours. How this will turn out in the real world remains to be seen.

Hope this is of some help.

Never got Kiss neither.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 04:31 (twenty-two years ago)

...you can find pubs which have pubs that are...

Erk, this should just be '...you can find pubs which...'

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 04:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"March until December 2004 every licensed premise will be relicensed under a new system that allows local councils to set theoretical 24 hours drinking hours"
Well thats good to know, at least in some parts of the world things are getting better.

Caca -"Just in a bar talking to an old dude who was still psyched about seeing Iron Maiden, Dio and Motorhead in NYC a couple of months ago"- Man

― Cacaman Flores, Wednesday, 17 December 2003 07:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Until I saw this thread, I had no idea that KISS weren't popular at all in the UK. I always figured if you're big in the U.S. you're big everywhere.

i suspect there are a lot of people in the UK that think this is how Americans view everything

― zappi (joni), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 09:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Cause they don't look gay enough.

― Skinny (Skinny), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 12:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Cause they don't look gay enough.

Er....ummm....have you looked at Paul Stanley recently?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 13:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah...Paul Stanley always looked like a homely shemale.

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 19:51 (twenty-two years ago)

They gots Cradle of Filth.

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

After reading this thread I'm still baffled at the fact that English bars close at 11am. What the hell do you guys do after 11am?

Start thinking about lunch?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I always figured if you're big in the U.S. you're big everywhere.

Dave Matthews Band, Hootie & The Blowfish, Counting Crows, Live and Korn to thread!

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

There's plenty of places to drink in London after 11pm. But I'm not telling you where they are.

There used to be a heavy metal reviewer at the defunct "Sounds" music rag who was a big KISS fan and gave all their albums 5-star reviews. That's the only place I ever heard of them back in those days.

I think the answer has already been given really. We'd already had glam and now we had punk to keep us happy. Plus they really were shite.

― LondonLee (LondonLee), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave Matthews Band, Hootie & The Blowfish, Counting Crows, Live and Korn to thread!

Please, no.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 17 December 2003 22:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm a bit amused by all those "Gee, maybe those Brits don't know how to ROCK!!!" type comments upthread!!! I'd argue the exact opposite is the case, and that is precisely why the UK didn't "get" Kiss!!!

I've lost count of the number of UK rocker friends who went through the same rigmarole as I did when they first heard of Kiss:

Sees piccy of Kiss in magazine- "Wow!!! They must really rock!!!"
Reads article about how they are top-class showmen- "Wow squared!!!! I really want to hear their stuff!!!"
Finally gets to hear their stuff- "Hmmmmm... It's a bit weak, isn't it?!?!?"
Hears more of their stuff- files Kiss under Nice Moves, Shame About The Music.

I mean, when you consider what rock music was like in the UK at the time of the rise and rise of Kiss, it doesn't exactly take a rocket scientest to work out what was going on!!! The Kids had Punk and New Wave, which was still comparatively smalltime in the US, but was getting bit hits all the time in the UK from late 1976 onwards. The spectre of Glam was still a recent memory. Don't forget this didn't just include the campy and arty stuff like Bowie and Roxy, but also the campy but rock-y Marc Bolan, and the not-really-very campy but totally blokey rock-out likes of The Sweet and Slade (Listen to "Mama Weer All Crazee Now"- one of their UK no. 1s- and tell me they don't know how to rock!!!!) Also in terms of adult rock, Sabbath and Zep were still on the go, and there was an emerging adult rock scene (Thin Lizzy, Status Quo) and a new wave of heavy metal (Motorhead, Saxon, Judas Priest, with Iron Maiden and Def Leppard just round the corner.) both of which were harder and more gritty than Kiss. Even in terms of showmanship, we had an answer to Kiss in the shape of Queen. (Look at their late 70s concerts if you want bombast and high camp!!!)

Furthermore, the mega-mainstream pop market was sewn up by Abba- ace tunes, and even patently ridiculous clothes, made all the more hilarious by a "we are deadly serious" stance, (Which is always funnier than an "OH LOOK, I'M WEARING KABUKI MAKEUP AND A FUNNY COSTUME, AREN'T I OUTRAGEOUS?!?! LET'S RRRAAAWWWKK!!!!" type stance). And Kiss wouldn't even be able to make inroads in the Nice Moves, Shame About The Music end of pop, as that was ruled by the Bay City Rollers!!!

Meanwhile, the Brits were also frugging about in different ways as well. For example, this was this new fangled thing called reggae!!! (Big hits for Bob Marley, and even homegrown quirky stuff like "Uptown Ranking" and proto-Lovers Rock "Silly Games", plus the likes of Black Uhuru in the background.) Oh, and there was this small thing called "Disco", which we didn't think sucked at all. ("Disco Sucks"!!!! Now, if that's not a textbook definition of not being able to hack the pace, I don't know what is!!!!) Oh yes, we were partying like it was 1977 in the UK!!!!

So, basically, the main reason the Brits didn't "get" Kiss was similar to the reason they didn't "get" the Young MC- it was a really slick but highly mediated version of what we already were listening to in spades!!!!

― Old Fart!!! (oldfart_sd), Thursday, 18 December 2003 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"this was this new fangled thing" = "there was this new fangled thing"

― Old Fart!!! (oldfart_sd), Thursday, 18 December 2003 10:00 (twenty-two years ago)

SUPERB Old Fart post. My fave part, though, is that there was thing called "adult rock." I'm not arguing; it kinda makes sense, actually. I just never heard Sabbath and Zep and Thin Lizzy and Status Quo called that before! So O.F., was that an accepted phrase in the UK at the time, or did you just make that up? I'm really really curious...

― chuck, Thursday, 18 December 2003 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never heard it before either and I'm an old fart Brit too.

The Eagles and Fleetwood Mac were "adult rock" back then. Still are.

― LondonLee (LondonLee), Thursday, 18 December 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

disco still sucks

― Cacaman Flores, Thursday, 18 December 2003 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Only people that can't dance say that.

― LondonLee (LondonLee), Thursday, 18 December 2003 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Gene Simmons was on RI:SE this morning, Ian Lee is a massive Kiss fan.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 18 December 2003 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

you are clearly a fanny. and NOT in the american sense. who cares if we didn't 'get' KISS even if they were apparantely huge in the US. im sick of americans thinking we have to kiss your arse because your bigger than us. you gave us KISS, come on, you gave us f*cking britney spears and christina aguilera. not to mention n*sync.

― luce puss, Thursday, 18 December 2003 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

you gave us KISS, come on, you gave us f*cking britney spears and christina aguilera. not to mention n*sync.

this is a ridiculous line of argument. YOU gave us the Darkness, the Spice Girls and fuckin' Robbie Williams, so fuck right off, whydon'tcha?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 19 December 2003 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

And the Canadians gave us Celine Dion! Kill the bastards!

― LondonLee (LondonLee), Friday, 19 December 2003 00:35 (twenty-two years ago)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

sorry don't have time to read all this - someone's probably already said it above - but are you out of your mind? when I wuz a teen in the UK back in the mid-70's fecking everyone was going on about Kiss! if you were a teen rock fan, that was the band to go see - it was like "you got to go see them, they do all this mad stuff on stage, spit blood, etc etc."

they were considered the next thing in line from Alice Cooper - loud tunes + rock theatrics, maan! fact is, most U.S. band are MORE appreciated in the UK, Japan & the rest of the world than they ever are in the states. sure, you get music obsessives here, but it's a smaller portion of the population...

― Paul (scifisoul), Friday, 19 December 2003 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

when I wuz a teen in the UK back in the mid-70's fecking everyone was going on about Kiss!

News to me, and I was a teen in the mid-70s in the UK.

― LondonLee (LondonLee), Friday, 19 December 2003 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

"disco still sucks
-- Cacaman Flores (cacama...), December 18th, 2003.

Only people that can't dance say that."

It's true, damn my two left feet!

― Cacaman Flores, Friday, 19 December 2003 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

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