Jay-Z / Nas hip-hop throw down? & other throw-downs?

well, this really sucks. I just wrote a huge paragraph and only got a couple of lines to come out in print. 1st complaint. guess it wasn't that important, but don't worry... i remember it. i'll bless you all in a few.

to add to what i was saying... basically after the 1st cd nas put out (classic), fans flocked to get his 2nd. disappointment led to lower sales on his 3rd, 4th, and so on. now i don't think there is anything wrong with putting out a 'popular' cd to ensure your grandkids are fed. but at the very least, give the 'popular' fans something they want to hear. what's unfortunate is that nas doesn't seem to thrive off of mainstream hip hop as jay does. i don't personally listen to most mainstream hip hop, but jay attracts my attention because he happens to bridge the gap better than, quite possibly anyone before. true, i like mos def, kweli, common, outkast, and the rest of erykah's kids(that was pretty funny), but good music is good music. and for the most part, i don't think nas has come with it in a while. and by the way, R.I.P. 2pac and big: and forgive us, many of us just take things to heart when it comes to your name.

A rose in the cement

Yeah, well I'm a cactus in the poodle garden. So what?

jay-z is a good guy but his shit is LAME! rhyming pussy with wussy? what in the fuck is that?!

They should reference this thread in an episode of Futurama, because I have a feeling it will last for several thousand years.

Bottom Line: Nas still is and always will be Nasty. He has not dropped off at all, anyone that claims that is definitely not up on the shit going on in NYC (so stay the fuck out!). Jigga has never had an album even close to half as good as Illmatic or It Was Written, and he never will. Know why? Because he is a commercial- ass pussy nigga. Sure, he makes all those party songs, but that is all he is good for. If you love seeing a faker hustler punk on your MTV, the Box, and BET, than by all means, you probably love Jay-Z and his gay ass. Haha. True MCs do not need all the ice and bling-bling BS that is so common today. Did you ever see Marly Marl, RUN DMC, LL, MC Shan, Bambatta, Stetsa, Nas, Rakim, Cube, Dre, MC Lyte, EPMD, Redman, Raekwan, Mobb Deep, GangStarr, or the Bootcamp pull any lame shit like wanting to be up on MTV all day like all the studio gangsters out there now? No. Hells no. That shit all became popular with Homos like Puff and Jigga, Cash Money, etc. To all you that think Jigga is jiggy, enjoy his ass and stay the fuck outta NYC and QB. Jadakiss and Nas are more than enough to cut Roc-a-fella down to size. Jigga didn't even coin the term roc-a-fella, he just stole it from one of the realest, that shows you what he is all about.

hold up man, yall boys better recognize lil flip. i can do that. i predict hisd shit will sell between a hundred thousand and 8.6 million, thats just my to me, you might have a different to me, it just depend. also, that nigga lil romeo wreck shit for a young un, and he got some hang time. he keepin it gutter

qb soldia speaks the truth, nas's shit all fits together and sounds good. jay-z sounds like he just puts random things together and says them, and surprise surprise, its sounds totally WACK

yo!! who ever thing jay homo is better than NAS u need a reality check jay homo is as comercial as it comes yes reasoniable dought was a good album but is it beter than illmatic NAS feel off in terms of having hits i dont thing he completly fell off we jus haven't heard him on the radio as much if u a real hiphop head u would know this

BOTTOM LINE NAS IS WAY BETTER THAN JAY HOMO THIS WILL BE PROVEN WHEN HIS ALBUM COMES OUT AND THEN WE ALL CAN (SALUTE HIM)!!!!! HOLLA

stay the fuck out of ny and qb huh? nas hasn't tried to bling bling it huh? just wait til nas' next cd comes out, right? i don't really think this needs to be addressed, but okay. for starters you probably need to leave that shelter in qb and realize that there are many talented emcees outside of ny. there is a lot of bs that comes out of ny. if you are a true hip hop fan i needn't remind you that you'll find talent and bullshit just about everywhere you look. now i don't want to waste anymore time on that issue so just listen to ras kass''sonset', track 7(from the 'soul on ice' cd). 2ndly, i think nas has been trying to bling bling it as much as the next emcee on his last few cd's(including the firm). and lastly, i don't know if jay is gay or not (that seems to be the justification something i haven't quite figured out). what i do know is that until nas does put out a good cd(it's been a while), he simply won't compare. you can call 'blueprint' commercial or whatever, but it's the best hip hop cd i've heard this year.

Yeah, gilson, we all need a reality check because reality is pickin' boogers and worshipping armpits and scaling the highest puddle. (Not that Nas is to blame. He's another petty bully homophobe, but hardly the only one.)

I’ve read some ridiculous statements here! Master P or Nelly? He must be like 12 for real !! Anyway…When Jay-Z (what I will always refer to him as) first dropped he was mad creative, for real. I remember hearing him on a mix tape my man made, I was like “who’s that”. Jumped on the first LP...then skipped all the others until this last one. The production is elite, and he’s making the head the nod! Is it glamorous? yah it is.. but I give props where its do. I don’t like that “bling” shit but he actually came with some original joints this time around (like the Jay-Z I first remembered) It’s an art peoples, its about being original. As far as what’s in whip's CD changer now; The Roots, Talib Kwali, Best of Gangstarr, Dead Prez, and the new Maxwell joint (for the ladies) As far as lyricist are concerned (in random order)...Rakim, Biggie, Black thought, Nas, Guru, KRS1, and yes Jay-Z. Peace-

ey whats that song, i think its drag on and eve. some of the lines are "LEts talk about BITCHES I FUCK" Then eve, or some broad says "LEts talk about LIL DICK NIGGAS" They go back and forth, this song was tite but i cant remember it, somebody help me out. holla

it's on eve's first cd. w/ drag-on. lyricists- no particular order- Ra, KRS, BIG, Kweli, Mos Def, Ras Kass, Eminem, Jigga, and several underground artists. this list could change next week of course. you know how hip hop fans are. best female lyricist- hmmm, maybe foxy brown...don't know. any input? the nas vs jay z issue is getting tired.

I gots ta agree with hills 3000 about what he says about jay Z. The only reason jay z is on top and even being considered as the "king of new york" is because of the tight producers he is able to work with. Most other artists can only afford to have a song or two produced by a well known producer, while jay can afford to have his entire album produced by an all star cast. Needless to say, tight beats coupled with Jay-Z's gimmicky rhyme style leads to high sales. Without those tight beats, nobody would even be considering JAY Z' as being anywhere in the top ten. I bet nobody (except the rocafella dicksuckers) would claim that Jay Z's Reasonable doubt was better then any of the other classics, namely Illmatic, Blackstar, Me Against the World, and All Eyes on Me. In order to be a great MC, you must first be on top lyrically. When I say lyrically, i don't mean gimmicky, dolla flashin, booty rhymes. I mean lyrically complex, consious rhymes that brings something to the hiphop world that no one else can. With that in mind, I can't even consider jay z as one of the best. Rappers now (that are living) that could be condidered include: Nas(Illmatic), Mos def, Talib Kweli, Common, Chino XL, Rakim, Shabam Sadiq, Black Thought, and the old Rass Kass. The deaceased and old school rappers I would inlcude are: Tupac, KRS-one, Public Ememy, Tragedy the intelligent thug, Dana dane, Slick Rick, and Big Daddy Kane. All this bullshit about da ROC being number 1 is gabage because if jay z were to die tommorow, the roc would die also. As a final note, don't let album sales, determine who is the best MC. Just because a nigga is hot at the moment and sells a bunch of CD's doesn't make him the greatest of all time. Cause if that were the case the best rappers would be Nelly, mater p, and ludacris.

tired tired tired. nas, try putting out another good cd. period< that's all i ask. illmatic was definately classic...what year was that? you've put out bullshit since then. on mic skills alone, there are several top notch emcees. some of you have named a few, but to not include jay has to be considered hatin'. it's understandable though. hip hop fans have always been kinda finicky. especially when one artist starts gettin all the glory.(i know it's also killin niggas that eminem is gettin so much praise for his skills, but you can't front. the kid brings it) 'blueprint' is straight up classic material. of course i could really do without the remix to 'girls girls girls'. it actually sounds like some beat nas would use. nas has HAD any producer he's wanted to work with, but he has not been able to come close to another classic cd, so obviously his formula has not been working as of late. nas, i challenge you to put out a cd this millenium that is not total bullshit!! i thought this conversation was over?!! ya killin me kogan!! lol:)

all yall muthafuckers crazy especially the ones that wrote the long ass shit on here get a fuckin life! assholes!

2pac is still alive. his death was a sham. he faked his death to make money outta you suckers and it worked.

Best Female Rapper - Lauryn Hill

1hotgirl is actually the gay rapper!

i agree, lauryn hill!

Is 1hotgirl implying that we should get the fuckin' life in our assholes? Intriguing suggestion.

yo i'm from the west....and for realz Jay z is doin his thing. Nas had fallen off like jus like the world trading center ( r.i.p to those who died) I think Beans and Jada are about the same. But Jada's album is better than Beans. Oh the G.O.A.T is Makaveli...his shit is deep like the abyss. ne wayz i'm out.

Burp!

Heh.

*rotfl*

best female rapper....jay-z

jay-z is witty,nas is deep,jay-z is clever,nas is intelligent.

the reason tupac fits the gangster rap stereotype is because he took ghetto life and values and represented them even in court.wherever he went he still handled life the way he would if he'd been in the project hallways.so the rest of the ghetto-ignorant people even as far away as london took him as the basic american gangster rapper.

tupac's voice wasnt straining you fool.his voice changed to reflect the emotion of the song unlike biggie's.

Yo I was digging jay back in the day but now he done lost his mind! Nas is the MAN and is way deep than jay. peace to the god

1st of all hotgirl.......If we don't have lives and you want to critique are lives, what does that make you? Best lyric makers gotta be Pac, BIG, Jada, Nas, Jay-Z and maybe a few more. Eminem got some skills, but he loses some points with me when he raps about sexin' dead mammals and all that nonsense. Yes I reconize his talent, but you have to take all of his stuff in to account. And one last thing about him, I'm not hating, but tell him to beef with someone who will beef back and leave the pop stars alone. Brintey and Christina and the boy bands....all of that is funny, but if you gonna call out some one don't pick on a lil softee, take it to the real. And that Fred D doesn't count. Now, about Rakim. I guess he had his time back in the day, but ain't no way you can say he'd be the man today. Naw, they rapping about other things now, and didn't he already try a comeback? Now about Nas... I guess everybody is sayin that his first CD was untouchable. If that is the case then stop comparing all his others to it. Just becasue they are not as tight, doesn't mean they are str8 up weak. John Singleton put out Boyz-N- the Hood as his 1st movie. He can never put out a better movie, don't hate on the next movies because it is impposble to match a true classic. Think about that 1. And you can't really tell me that Nas last few CD's didn't have at least something you were feeling. Listen to "We will Survive" or "I want to talk to You" or "Last Words." I'm telling y'all he is still spittin some true-make-you-sit-down-and-think-about- it-type-rhymes. And as far as sales, that means nothing. With all of the downloading and the bootlegs, and Nelly out selling Jigga...that should tell you. Sales don't prove a thing. Holla. And P.S. Beans don't want Jada 4real. Ask Bleek, he don't want it wit J. I can't wait for round 2. I hope there is a round 2. Qoolout

We only get half a bar. Fuck us.

Oh my bad BEST FEMALE RAPPER - Jay-Z then Lauryn

NAS IS THE SHIT

one love

I am with you on Lauryn. I've been saying for 2 years that her next album shd be ALL RAP.

HoLLa back to all you fake niggas who keep tryin to play my son fab on some wack shit my son is better than jay and nad HoLLa back

Yo, ya'll niggas is crazy.

Nas is the realist muthafucka in the game ever PERIOD.

GAY-Z IS A FAGGOT.

He can't fuck with nas, his organziation is filled with rappers who can onyl make gold records. And they only getting gold because of Jay-Z features. Nas is the fucking best rapper our right now and he been doing it for 10 years twice as long as Gay-Z. Gay-Z shoula retired after Hard Knock Life but he tried so hard to get muthafucking Shitie Sigel and Shitis Bleek on.

Them niggaz aint gangsta Jay-Z hasn't been in Marcy since 1997, Memphis is still in Marcy living in his mama's house picking roaches out of his bowl of Krasdale Fruit Rings and water. Nas still goes back to the Bridge same goes for the Mobb. The Bridge is real black people, them niggaz from Philly and Marcy are fucking jokes. Jadakiss chewed the shit out of Beanie's long ass freestyle on Empire Strikes Back. That shit went waaay too long and that shit was talking about nothing. Listen to Jada's shit

..and I aint making no more songs either so when I shoot him in his face dont' say that I'm wrong neither

...I hate Beans but fuck it kiss gonna eat

...I don't know where they found you son but since your pops aint around I'm gonna punish and groudn you son...

Comon that's blood raw nigga what did beanie say

I'm gonna sun Kiss like a soda

That was fucking weak that made me laugh the only thing redeemable in that entire corny freestle weaker than something my grandmother could write was

I know why Styles say he the ghost of this shit I can tell in your style he wrote most of your shit

Man Nas kills

Like my nigga Pac said Jay-Z is a corny sounding muthafucker with big dick sucking lips

Mason Murder - no doubt Nas eats Jigga for lunch in a freestyle contest - or almost any rhyming contest - but you have to respect that Jay-Z can write songs. Everything on the new album sounds like a single. Nas tracks sound like just that - tracks - some Primo beat on repeat or summat. I respect that too and sometimes that's what I want to hear but no matter who Jigga sticks his dick in you have to recognize that the man has got skills, just different ones.

I THINK ITS JUST BULLL NORE AND STYLES ARE THE ILLEST RAPPERZ qvb NIGGAZ BLOOD UP

I liked Jay-z back in the day. . . When he dropped the STREETZ IS WATCHIN' LP . . . Now all of a sudden, he flipped and went straight 'POP'. Him and his corny ass H to the Izzo shit. Thats type MTV shit. They should air that on TRL along with Nsync and the Backstreet Boys. He lost his touch. On the other hand, Nas never lost it. . . he stayed street till the end. No one who knows RAP can ever say Jay-z can take Nas in a battle. Nas would and DID rip his ass apart. Anyone disagreein with that. . . Go listen to your P-diddy and Nelly cds cuz you obviously don't know shit about RAP. Read my shit I put down on August 30th on this website

Wassup Every1. Ok while I don't know the exact origins of the beef between Jay-Hov' and Nas I can tell you this....without a shadow of a doubt Jay-Z won the battle between the two. While both Stillmatic (Nas's dis track) and Takeover (Jay's dis track) were both hard as a teenage male virgin watching a porno any true and IMPARTIAL hip-hop fan KNOWS Jay-Z won. While I'm a devoted fan of both S.Carter and N.Jones lyrically Jay GAVE IT TO Nas!! Come with me on this 1, how bout Jay's line "you's the fag model for Karl Kani Esco as/ went from Nasty Nas to Esco's trash/ had a spark when you started but now you're just garbage/ fell from top ten to not mentioned at all/ till your body guard's Oochie Wally's verse better than yours/ matter of fact you had the worst flow on the whole f*cking song/ but I know/ the sun don't shine/ the sun don't shine....". And the screaming ad- libs in the background just put the icing AND THE CANDLES on the cake! It was great to witness a battle between two of raps most gifted emcees ever, either one has an legitimate claim to best lyricist ever. However I was shocked and disappointed that this battle between Jay and Nas was so 1-sided, I mean who won is not even DEBATABLE, Jay won. I thought it was gonna to be a close call, you know....the rap Clash of the Titans, the Ali/Frazier of hip-hop, one 4 the record books. I do hope Nas can rebound from this....this.....lyrical thrashing courtesy of Hova because I would hate to see Nas go out in an undignified fashion. He and Jay have both contributed TREMENDOUSLY to rap and I would like to see BOTH of them gracefully bow out when the time comes. Oh and one more thing, I wish everybody would get off Eminem's D*CK! Yes he's nice, yes he has skills, but don't OVERcredit just because he's a legitimate white rapper. He's nice on the mic but don't make it bigger than it actually IS, ask yourself this question, would you praise his skills this much if her were BLACK, would we even know who he is if he were Black....NOOOO. I mean I've seen this kat on the cover of so many magazines and praised on so many radio stations you would think he was the second coming of Rakim, hell the second coming of JESUS!!! I mean don't get me wrong, lyrically Eminem is sick, but he's not TERMINALLY ILL! He can't touch any of the hip-hop heavyweights such as Jay-Z, Nas, or DMX, he can't even f*ck wit Jadakiss on the battle tip so every just calm the hell down 4 a minute. I mean every1 was ridin' his dick b4 his SECOND ALBUM even dropped! Let duke earn a few more albums and let him earn his stripes b4 you start fitting his head 4 a crown ight, lets get over the fact that he's a WHITE rapper and just look at him as a RAPPER and judge him accordingly. Let's give him the credit he deserves as we do all other rappers, no more and no less. Peace and Love.

I really have to confess I have no clue what the hell is going on in this thread anymore.

"LL,the greatest rapper of all time","The greatest rapper of all time died on March 9th", Fuck that,the greatest rapper of all time just dropped The Blueprint.

Fuck sales! Fuck mag covers! Fuck the press! illmatic, that's it, the only one, garbage since. For starters, yes, illmatic was a classic, but for anyone to say that it's the peak and we shouldn't expect nas to show growth from that, should go back to school. No, nas shouldn't try to outdo illmatic, but he should show some growth or originality in his material. unfortunately he has not. there are talented poets everywhere. mariah carey's a talented singer but i don't want to hear her shit. put out something i want to hear. fuck it, put out something YOU want to hear. i think outkast's 1st cd was classic, but i think they showed growth on their 2nd and 3rd cd's respectively. if you've peaked on your 1st cd, leave the business. there's nothing more you can give us. also, eminem 's shit is staightup wicked. white, black, whatever, the kid's got skills. i'm not really a fan of his voice but his shit is original, he flows over all types of beats, he's shown some battling skills, and he holds his own on every cd he's been on. yeah, he get's a lot of praise, but so did biggie, after 1 cd(annointed king of ny). yeah he's on all the mag covers. but he's still skilled enough to be on a rawkus records cd. sure, i think he get's more praise because he's white. but i don't buy the mags, i don't care much about the press, i don't really care who else is feelin him. but i know when i hear him on a track, i listen to the lyrics. the talent cannot be denied. he'd hold his own with just about anyone right now.

I know the debate is getting old, but gotta put my 2 cents in ... All you NAS dicklickers, realize what you write. NAS is NOW and for the last two years has been one of those studio gangstas who rocks the "bling-bling," lest we forget "YOU OWE ME" with Ginuine or "HATE ME NOW" with your luvable Sean Combs. Nas played himself out. Don't get me wrong, I like Nas. I thought he came with the diggs on Illmatic and It Was Written. His "Street Dreams" and "Black Girl Lost" and "I Gave you Power" and the Dr. Dre joint ... can't remember the name ... those were powerful, well written songs. But, everyone on this discussion has pointed to the heart of this debate ... what the fukk has Nas put out since? Love him or hate him, Jay-Z is a hit maker.

So, how do we define the title "King of New York"? I like that the discussion matured to arguing which rapper was better at what. Lyrically, Nas may be better. Changing up styles might go to Jay-Z. Nas has the freestyle battle, no doubt. Jay-Z is a better writer. Look at the whole. I don't know if you cats realize that Jay-Z writes like a quarter of the rap songs out there. He made the Neptunes famous. He wrote Dr. Dre's "Still D.R.E." He gives average rappers like Beanie Siegel credibility. Don't talk crews ... this is between Nas and Jay-Z. Jay-Z gets the nod. He may have a pop appeal. But, that's what gets him the loot. He brings it thug too. Shyt, "Big Pimpin" would be straight thug if all those white fraternity boys didn't get on the dikk. Y'all hear "If I Should Die" on the Life and Times ... vol. 2?

Some of y'all hate b-c of Jay-Z commercial/pop success. But, 2pac and Big was the same way. They had their gangsta hits, and then Pac would drop a "Keep ya Head Up" or "Do for Love" and Big had his pop songs like "One More Chance remix" and "Hypnotize". Bottom line, they still were gangsta. And, they both remain at the top.

Nas is good with a classic LP and a very good sophomore LP. Jay-Z has put out 7+ quality albums, including a couple of classics. Just because he's on MTV and is good at making 14 year old kids buy his albums too, don't knock his hustle.

NEone think this is all just a media hype ... to benefit both camps?

ONE

AND, whoever is on FABOLOUS "I wanna be the next MA$E" SPORT's cock, listen to more hip hop. He ain't bad, but he ain't worthy to be in this discussion.

AND to any of you Biggie-haters, are Y'ALL out your damn minds. Biggie is an untouchable. Stop using his name in vain.

BEST FEMALE RAPPER: Rah Digga

Yo, I heard there’s a video tape for $150.00 dollars floating around of the supposed Gay Jay-Z squirting Nas’s wife in the face with cum. Something in accordance to Jay-Z tellin’ Nas to bow –down and out or he’ll be the next victim on the screen on the next Summer tour. Jay- Z saying he that if doesn’t, he’ll show up in the big screen. It’S on track 2 of the BLUEPRINT. Can anyone tell me how to get it on- line or address or downlaod it form somewhere. Even though I love Mobb Deep and my man is Prodigy, I give it to Jigga. He got this game locked.

Why are people over looking the fact that Jay-z is not the only one with beef with Nas. All you niggaz need to cop that new Conmega LP and listen to Thun & Kicko feat. prodigy

You's a notebook crook, with loose sleave beef a backseat criminal that pass the heat to somebody that blast the heat Man, it sound bad on the pad, what happened in the street? revealing on the vinyl an analog outlaw alot of gats on your DAT, tape southpaw you thuggin' when the mic's plugged in barkin' through the speakers like you got no sense you wild on the two inch got your platinum plaques to prove it your music's been around the World movin' and it comes right back around on the ground, don't it? now it's time to face your opponent Infamous cling to this real shit, stuck where we started at fuck that, not because we have to, I want to I love this shit, the raw is what I live for to hear the sound of the crowd roar for more to see the niggas that can't pay rush the door whylin' on the dancefloor when they song come on, swingin' they fists, ready for war but it's a different type of effect, it's not violence they're just tranced by the advance tranked by the sound bank put under the drum, numbed off of our shit now who you rockin' wit'? them or us deep love or cheap lust?, QB 'll bust Infamous 'till we pass on you laughin' at the wrong shit, I take ac-tion defend my confedons nigga I write bombs that'll shatter your ambitions of bein' top dog as we move through the stage fog I need to bass more so I can taste it and make ya'll go AWOL and lose it, say no more, brace your delf, nigga it's on..

Verse 2: (Cormega)

(yo, back up yo..)

Who's tale you tellin'? are you frail or felon? were you makin' sales or watchin' niggas sellin'? you exploit niggas lives in your rhymes and then avoid 'em you never felt the moisture in the air of coke boilin' you never felt the razor scrapin' your plate your hands achin' yet you keep choppin' 'cause theres paper to make you never felt the power of invincibility clutchin' a gun like fuck it dun, it's him or me at your best you was a hand to hand no more than Three grams what the fuck you know about a Ki, man? you never hustled lets get it right, my nigga Y would've stuck you stop dry snitchin' in your rhymes, listen what you tryin' to do? help the guys in Blue? indight niggas so that can be another rhyme for you? you a parasite, you never had a life so you throw other niggas lives in your pad at night it's clever when you write it spoken well for a dude who never been indighted you know the deal mothafucka, the real make the fake niggas kneel and lose appetites when you taste niggas steel my rhymes are what it takes to get a deal and make it real I'm like Big, you can't replace the skill I laced it ill like Cocaine in Scarface's grill your mothafuckin' flow is basic, chill I'm Cormega, raw forever y'all niggas know my steez, I'm reppin' for Queens you minor league I'm big time like Mark McGwire's team your whole team is pussy, when I squeeze vaginas bleed my lyrics stay official I bagged up coke on dishes made of crystal your niggas, they won't miss you my Nickel-plated pistol - got Sixteen shots, you can take 'em wit' you to the coffin or DA's office surgeory, nurses screamin' "We lost him!" life suddenly divorced him, fuck it, it cost him if you want beef say no more brace your delf, nigga it's on, we spray Four-Fours, bitch!

Now tell me is raw next to Jay-z!!!!!!!!!

Another attack on Nas by Conmega.

In a jacuzzi flashin, splashin like a uzi rappin Much love for thugs, God bless B.I., askin "Whattup with Cormega?" Live niggaz keep askin The exhibition, flexin, throw my extra clip in Chrome bugotti VVS's, check it Niggaz talkin bout, how real they kept it on record Screamin out, Q.B.C. but don't rep it Am I my brothers keeper or a faggot in love with reefer? My Far Rock' niggaz would love to meet ya "Life's a Bitch" but shit gets deeper, fuck gold chains and sneakers I had dat, when cocaine was cheaper Yo, who this fake nigga soundin like me? You wanna be me, but can't see a thousand like me I'm loungin, you're like bookies on housin You see my team comin and your heart starts poundin You shook, getting paid off the book Niggaz jeal-ous, my LS is off the hook You see the Lex, you fake ass thug, you need respect or be another nigga that my fuckin heater wet My poetry is manifest, the words be correct My empire rise, now my enemies are vexed Yo Nature you finished, yo Nas you next

Yeah, clear my little man YouknowhatI'msayin, Nas It ain't nuttin personal, it's all business yaknahmsayin? You let your little faggot ass man come around me But my man got a few words he wanna say to you

Nature you fake cat, try to be down and got your chain snatched Took the shit, and your little brother's tape back Now you against the Mega star, puffin hundred stacks in a Lex, LS, doin no Escobar's When they crew speak, heard my team burn the wonder Five stars, Q.B. the Desert Storm The Mobb exclusive, check out the new kid on the next hit Find the illest kicks, play the strength, what the writer bent Hover from night to light, now push the tightest shit The tighest click, we're airtight Roll deep and wear Air Nikes, some to scare some the bear type but we rock mics and jams, like gats we cock twice Runnin with the pretty boys, bitches say that's not nice Straight out the 'Bridge, my DeLorean, showbiz And if you wanna sign me you can find me where the coke is

I'm a nightmare to "Street Dreamin" Nigga your whole crew is twenty-two's, my dudes street sweepin Prepared, never scared, ones to bolster Flex I'm ill, everything's real, ain't no special effects Yeah, bring the drama, I like the fuckin trauma A gladiator, rocking steel plated armor Yeah, you wanna step to me, you'd better bring a referee My name is 'Mega, y'all niggaz scared to death of me Yeah your man asked, I'm like a Columbian refugee Murder any nigga in sight, any day or night You see me in a jet black Lex, the coke's white Lampin on the Hill, that nigga Nature thought he ill I fucked his ass up like I'm Holyfield The Real Deal, Montana, drama for short Of course, yeah, the fucking boss Yeah, that nigga Nature talk about he takin my spot Took one punch to the face, and just dropped

It's over La, I don't even know why you even won't try to come at me This is Cor motherfuckin Mega You know I'm the baddest you fuckin faggot I'll fuck you up That's why my man took your fuckin gold chain and now he's wearin your shit in the projects, you're a fuckin bitch Knahmsayin Nas? You need to you need to you need to get a fuckin fireproof fuckin van that's how you come through the projects or niggaz'll burn your shit down Them niggaz is idiots, yo Talkin about "Street Dreams" rockin a pink ass suit What the fuck kind of dreams you niggaz workin with, man? Last crack y'all niggaz sold was y'all ass! You fuck with me, you're fuckin with the best, man, knahmsayin? But y'all niggaz ain't ready for fucking war Y'all ain't ready for the motherfuckin, the gun battles or the beatings on sight man don't fuck with me man, I got no more to say man trick ass bay-atches!

And let me say one thing Brooklyn has produce that best Rappers in the Game.

The most influential, most prolific, most incredible rapper of our time and maybe the greatest that ever lived is the unforgettable, unmistakable Tupac Shakur. Anybody that can’t understand that or does not want to admit it has problems accepting the truth or I just plain stupid. The proof is all around you. Every rapper you hear has taken or is using 2Pacs style. He has influenced so many. The man is dead and people are plays about his life. People are creating classes in respected colleges creating courses about his poetry and lifestyle. How many wifebeat shirt-wearing rappers came out after him and still rock that today? How many “thug” references can you hear and not think about 2Pac. How was it Nas, “thug life is mine”? Since when fool. Corny ass wanna be. Can act worth a shit. And what is that shit tattooed on your flabby stomach? God’s Son? Nas is so fake he makes me sick. Jay-Z’s Reasonable Doubt compared to Nas’s Illmatic would be a close tie, 52/48 for Jay-Z, but after that, Nas’s work is whack as hell with the same whack style while Jigga is always experimenting and expanding his. Jigga is everywhere. He’s even down with the King of Pop. Everybody knows greatness when they see it. What!

Outcask AL...I agree that Pac is the best and can't none of these peeps touch him. Just about every hardcore rapper stole something form that man. And don't feed into that Jigga and Nas wifey tape; that's how rumors get started; I doubt if there is such a tape. And to whoever said Eminem is over rated, I agree with that too. He can flow with the best I give you that, but all of his songs about Karl Kaniff and all that nonsense makes his stock go down. Just like Jigga. He got some tight stuff out and I'd say he is in the top 3 right now but his stuff like Girls remix and and Izzo, that's not classic. Do you all think half these people on top would be on top if Pac was still here? Listen to "All Out" from Until the End of Time. When Jigga puts out something like that, let me know. And I'm not even a big fan of the Outlaws, but them boys floooow on there. And they call out Jay and Cash money. It's a little slick how they call out cash money, so I don't know if everyone will catch it, but they say Jay Z's name! What's up now? How come Hova ain't address them? And I never said Nas peaked; I'm just saying if u put out a CD with nothing but excellent songs, you can't match that. Jordan coming back. Y'all want him to win six more? If he just take em' to the playoffs, y'all goin hate, right? Come on now; just listen to my words before you jump to disagree. Qoolout of D.C. Holla P.S. The tightest line in all of this rap beef is Jada's about Beanie- "I got people in Philly, that been where u live/ F--- Scarface, my bullets hit women and kids." LOL

Yeah, but Pavement were never street. Streets were Pavement, but Pavement were never street. Paving stones were street, but Pavement were counter tops and coffee tables and shit. You get too street, you get potholes in your belly. A notebook crook? So what, it's his job, paddywhack paperback gangsta rap. If it's not in the book, no one looks, tree in the forest, no paper, no one sees, no one hears, no once cares. You get too street, slightest tremor, dust in the air, you disintegrate. Speed garage, amphetamine driveway, ritalin street and you think you're it, but no: you're bricks, the bricks crumble into particulate matter.

ouch!! pac, the greatest? don't think so. best lyricist? hardly. if this needs to be addressed further, homework needs to be done...for real. illmatic, definately classic. can he put out another classic? doubtful. but damn, try at least!! oh, and uh, didn't keanu reeves have a college course studying his material. and he can't even act.

much respect Frank!!

wut's d fucking big deal of wutever nas,prodigy,jadakiss do say... they're juz jealous of jigga's reign. if dey wana be d king of NY, then prove it assholes! i wud consider jay-z as the king of NY coz he's d 1 hus juz releasing albumz dat go beyond expectations. u jadashit juz dont know how 2 act. nas also. ur a fucking goddamn P.Diddy asshole follower.damn u rappers dat always dedic8 their fucking rap shit wid the departed 1s. wut da hell u r? r u a homo? u think BIG wil kip u up wid ur bullshit records? fuck ur company! damn all dos hu hate ROC... u juz cant compete wid tha muthafuckers of NY. JADASHIT, NAS POTATO, PRODIGY ASS...pieces of trashes of rap. JAY-Z---KING of 21st CENTURY NY!!!!!!!!!!!!

F it; we just gotta agree to disagree. Pac's the best. You do your homework. I said that 1st Sept. 20 on this site. Now do it. You said the best rapper just put out blueprint? How is Jigga betta when he stole a rack of lines from Pac? What did he steal u ask? 1. "Stick to the script (MOB)" from his Dynasty CD. Stole that line form Pac and made a song about it. 2. "Not a demon, but a rose in the cement." 3. On the takeover, "I sampled your voice, you was using it wrong, you made it a hot line, I made it a hot song" stole that form Pac's hit em up "Yeah we took your beat, you wasn't rocking it right." 4. "If I should die;" got that idea from Pac. "Don't cry my iggas." Pac said "Don't shed a tear/I ain't happy here." Hova remixed it a lil, but us true Pac fans saw it. Come on. How can a man be better than the man he stole it from? I could go on, but do I need to? I said Jigga's in the top 3 right now. Who thinks Jigga would be on top if Pac or B.I.G was here? Don't lie to yourself. And don't fake like he is a thug 24/7. He was in a Mariah video in a hot tub. He got dissed by Pac's boys, recently, RECENTLY, (ALL OUT) but ignored it, but ain't ignore Nas and Mobb. And still givin Pac shoutouts. What is that? You got a case when u say Jay is better than Nas...maybe, but he ain't near Pac. Holla @ me. Qoolout

A. Nas' only "classic" album didn't go gold. B. When mentioning Nas' classic songs, don't forget "Affirmative Action," "Project Window," and "Blaze a 50." C. When showing how Nas HAS NOT stayed street, don't forget the actual song "Nastradamus" and that shit with Mariah Carey D. Funny how you're "commercial" when you're popular. Jay-Z is more of a businessman rapper. He has an ear for what's popular (which is why he only works with hottest producers at the time). I don't particularly agree with his constant switch from streets to pop, but overall it works, so more power to him. E. 2Pac is the greatest rapper ever because of what he has accomplished. All of those who say it's B.I.G, have no case since BIG has 1 pre-mortem album to go on (which wasn't that good in my opinion), and 2 post-mortem (with Born Again not being too impressive). 2Pac had 6 very successful, including the 5 times platinum All Eyez On Me, albums to his name. Plus several post- mortem, multi-platinum albums. He had the biggest impact on rap and his delivery was the best the game had ever seen. Like my boy said, PAC could talk about eatin Fritos and make you feel every word. He had the ability to touch hearts with songs like "Dear Mama," "Life Goes On," Keep Ya Head Up," and so on. Now lyrics are debatable. If you're looking for deep and meaningful, then look at PAC. If you're looking for witty tongue twisters, then BIG stands above the crowd. I love BIG, but people base his greatness solely on his potential. But who's to say he wouldn't have fallen off? It happened to Bone after their first two albums, and no one saw that coming. Who knew they'd go from Thuggish Ruggish Bone to If I Could Teach The World? I didn't. But they fell real hard. And the same COULD have happened to BIG. I find it unlikely, but possible. But Pac actually made multiple hot albums, collabos, appearances, and videos, before and after death. Plus, the majority of the hip-hop world sides with Pac, so you have to give him the nod for now. E. Speaking of BIG and PAC, was the song "Holla At Me" off of A.E.O.M. (disc2) about BIG or was it a general song? F. I think BIG's best song is "Kick In The Door" and I think the hottest line he ever spit was on "I Got A Story To Tell" - SO I'M LIKE BITCH YOU BETTER TALK TO HIM, FOR THE FIFTH PUT A SPARK THROUGH HIM, FUCK AROUND SHIT GET DARK TO HIM, PUT A PART THROUGH HIM, LOSE A MAJOR PART TO HIM - ARM, LEG... That shit is so clean! What y'all think? G. For that guy ridin Fabolous' nuts - Fabolous is extremely average. H. That's it y'all. I'm out da kitchen. Peace.

And another thing, I can't believe people point to the fact that Eminem is white to be the reason for his success. There are three, not just one, factors for Eminem's success... 1) he is white (the white 2Pac?????) and of course white adolescent males will put him at the top of the charts...but can Eminem control who buys his records, and puts him in their magazine? Don't hate Eminem, hate the dickriders... 2) Eminem is produced by arguably the greatest producer (i.e. Dr. Dre) rap has ever known (even though I like Timbaland's beats more). Plus he hangs with raps two biggest icons - Snoop and Dre... 3) This is the most important factor - Eminem has mad skills. The white boy is undeniably tight. Black, white, alien from Venus, he comes up with some of the tightest shit - even if he raps about fat lesbian ass being eaten by dead mammals' ghosts from the pits of hell. He can also produce (he's produced many of his songs) as seen on Jay-Z's "Renegade" where he also raps better than Jay does. And you can't tell me that his verse on Dead Wrong with BIG wasn't just as tight (maybe more) as BIG's two verses. To deny Eminem's talent is to do exactly what black rappers love to rhyme about - hate. If Eminem was Black, if Eminem was this, that, yadda, yadda, yadda, blah, blah, blah... None of that matters because Eminem IS white, and regardless, he is better than the great majority of Black rappers. Just because we started hip hop doesn't mean we are guaranteed to be better than all the other races. I give any rapper their due based on the music they put their name to. Fuck race, age, region, background, etc. If your shit is hot, then it's hot. And Eminem is the hottest. Hot as Jay and hotter than "I'm real good, but my albums don't reflect it" Nas. And he could hold his own with BIG and PAC. I guarantee it. So please, put down the proverbial Haterade, and kill all that Great White Hype nonsense.

Sorry, last thing... Eminem would EAT JADAKISS ALIVE. No contest. Not too many MCs could battle with Em, and two are dead. Jay, DMX, maybe Nas, maybe Beans are the only ones with a chance in hell.

I think…let me correct myself, I KNOW if 2Pac was still around, (in the physical) 3/4 of these rappers wouldn’t be brave enough to spit all that “thug-life is mine” crap.

Yo. have you ever noticed that no one in any artform is considered great until they are dead? If Tupac was still alive he would by no means be considered the greatest of all time so stop hoppin on is dick. I like alot of his joints and own a few of his albums but duke does not have lyrical prowess the be considered great. Biggie i'm a big fan but i can help but feel the same way if they were both alive neither would be called the greatest of all time. As far as nas and jigga are concerned. Its kinda narrow minded to call an artist that gets in the mainstream pop or a sellout, because they've reached worldwide recognition, because that's what EVERY hiphop artist is strugglin' for. As far as jay'z being on this bling-bling shit first of all if you peep his first album that nigga came out gate talkin' about money and the finer things in life so its not like its a new occurence he's always been doing that, and that is part of his style and that arrogance he has is what makes duke stick out. As a matter of fact everyone has coming out trying to be a fuckin thug until jigga came out talkin' about money and rocking ice and platinum, now (and check what i'm saying) everyone is on the platinum $ ice shit thinka bout it i would say that would make jay'z an innovator. As far as nas is concerned His first couple of albums were tight then when he got on this Firm shit he was trying to be a fuckin' gambino and fans didn't respond a so he fell off and after that the next couple of albums just weren't tight. Bottom line NAS needs to go back to the drawing board cause if he doesn't he'll fall completely off and go the way of afrikan bambatta, the juice crew and sugar hill gang...a pleasant memory. Oh yeah who the fuck keeps bringing up Rakim and being the greatest....come on we forget that wackass "The 18th letter album" and "Don't sweat the technique".. There's a reason he hasn't been out in years, duke just doesn't have it anymore.

who's that fag hatin on ra,dont you know that nigga got extreme lyrical respect.l respect a rapper who can do a whole album without talking the usual gangster rhetoric,lam a thug,bitches want me,l tote teks,l smoke blunts lam iced out.lam the best.l can talk shit and you cant touch me.thats the real reason lauryn hill was so nice.ra is who jay copied the name "the god "from, how about some originality.ra is on a whole new level and if you listened to the 18th letter you'll know ra has far much more depth and weight than yo average jigger or nas.that nigger is for the mature mind,not for people to take lightly or to bounce to in club.

If nothing else 'Pac was an poet, innovator, entertainer and creative businessman. Despite all his "thug life" proclamations and gangsta mentality, Tupac was neither a thug or a gangster. Intelligent, thoughtful and introspective, yes, but a hardcore gangster, no. He created that persona to sell records and to create an aura (remember he was a talented actor as well). Of course, getting shot in the head and doing time in jail enhanced his reputation and substantiated all his thug life posturing. Unfortunately it also made him antagonistic, paranoid and fiercely defensive. His best work usually came out when he just wrote from the heart, as opposed to his Death- Row/MOB/Thug Life stuff. Don't get me wrong, I still listen to that shit, because I love 'Pac and all of his work, regardless of what he is saying. His coherent confident delievery, dope beats and lyrical command are unparalleled. But a lot of folks never grasp the essence of Tupac because they get caught up in his whole charade as strictly a bad ass thug. Listen to the "Me Against the World" album. Look at the pictures on the insert. It's just Tupac, wearing glasses looking humbled, mature and thoughtful. No "West-Side" hand gestures. No S500, No excessive jewelery and no "posse". Tracks like "It Ain't Easy", "So Many Tears", "Temptations" and "Lord Knows" reflect the real Tupac Shakur, jaded, confused, angry, and remorseful,. Early work like "Brenda's Got a Baby" and "Trapped" are brilliant works as well. Fortunately, 'Pac left an enduring legacy for today's hip-hop generation. Many rappers are trying to emulate him. Unfortunately, too many of today's rappers are emulating the wrong side of Tupac.

if that nigga mase came back hed reclaim his spot, he was by far the hardest niggga out with his first lp. yall think he was pop, what the fuck were 24 hours to livwe then? that shit was gutter, he had shit with big, the lox etc. he was very underrated, people need to give him his props and stop hating. as far as master p, hes not the best like some people have said, but hes up there, hes kinda fallen off. but u gotta admit u liked make em say unghhhh. and how you do dat there. ei

I went to buy the DMX tuesday and it wasn't there. I asked one of the hip hop clerks and he said it got pushed back cause Jay-Z had it locked. How's that for power. He can't be stopped. Let's see corny ass "thug life is mine" Nas do that.

In response to the ignorant person who called me a fag 'cause Rakim's the 18th letter sucked.........You are saying i'm a homosexual because Rakim's 18th letter album sucked. Hmmm very interesting, no wonder you liked his album your as is just as wack that album beee- ytch

Apparently this congression are filled with simpletons and imbeciles. I'm possibly the most educated and intellectual responser of all. A few of you need a spellchecker and editer. Now averted to the topic. Jay-z is nothing but a futile rapper, the "crap" he produces is absolutely ridiculous.

The society that believes his "spit" are concrete minded individuals. The best "battle" rappers are Eminem, Nas, Tupac and Biggie. Eminem and Nas would humiliate Jay-Z and ROC-a-fellah members in any aspect of the "Game". Beanie Siegel completely owned Jadakiss, but everyone knows that he's not pulling that on Nas.

I also strongly believe that Nelly, Petey Pablo, Coo Cal, P.Diddy are on top of Jay-z. Open the visual spheres, Jay-hova is Jay-HOMO.

WOW ... some of y'all really are adamant 'bout your shit. Check it ... the whole rap game is based on sampling ... since way back, hip hop has sampled jazz, funk, soul, and other hip hop. How are people up in this joint gon hate on rappers who use other rappers' words or ideas and put a new spin on it? That's what all rappers do. Check yourselves. 2pac the greatest ... arguably he is. The cat who be screaming about the G.O.A.T title is only given to dead people ... come on. Heads were claiming Big and Pac were the greatest while they were alive. And, you can't hate on BIGGIE because he died before putting out 5 or 6 LPs. You gon crazy. Big was eating when he was alive. And, his 2 post-death albums were excellent. He flowed better back then than the majority of the cats in the game now. And, who was saying Pac wasn't gansta????? Getting shot nine times, being up in jail, and running with cats like Suge Knight makes you soft? Get a clue.

Again, Jay-Z has pop appeal. He has thug appeal. He has collabos with the dirty south, the west coast, pop artists, anyone who's down. Don't hate a nigga cuz he's a Renaissance man. His versatility from "Nigga Who" with Jaz-0 to "Girl's Best Friend" with the sample of the James Brown "Nightrain" to "Big Pimpin" with UGK and Timbaland to some of the bullshit with "Mariah Carey" ... all that shows his versatility as a lyricist, rapper, artist, producer, and musician as a whole. His hustle to go reach everyone. He didn't go suburb. He brought suburbia to the ghetto.

I'd have a lot more respect for Nas if he didn't try to be so gangsta after he saw how niggaz were making loot by going MTV style. He switched styles like a little bitch. Did "You Owe Me" with Ginuine. Got the Destiny's Child teens in the video to make the 14 year old girls watch. He was the "Hot Boy" for Missy Elliot and wasn't even the one she was rapping about. Bottom line: HE SOLD OUT. He had to step to Jay-Z so heads would notice him again. Yeah, he's a great poet and lyricist, but that don't change the fact he sold out. If you gon claim to be thuggish ruggish, stick to your damn guns. Someone already noted that Jay-Z was all about the diamond clusters and cristal since album uno. While Jay-Z has grown as an artist and entertainer, Nas is switching up styles so he can get recognition.

I don't know. Y'all can argue til your ears bleed, but 2Pac and BIG were the two greatest. Who knows who's better? BIG never got the chance to have the longevity like 2Pac. And, Pac has some mediocre songs, even though most of his joints are blazing.

Holla,

A.Sol

congression? hhmmmm. i think there is an age limit in here and you're obviously under. come back when you're 15.

pac, love him to death. i think for many to try to understand the black youth of his era, they could very well look to him. i loved him when he first came out. he spoke of the hard times of black society, touched on the many cultural issues, controversial issues. he was extremely intelligent, and outspoken. though respected back then, he was not looked at as the 2nd coming of christ or anything. he was not mentioned in anyones top ten lyricist list back then. but pac was young and still growing. his changes in growth were reflected in his music, and his outspokeness in the media. did pac become a better lyricist in time. i don't really think so. but his subject matter changed. when he spoke of 'brenda's baby', we felt him. when he holla'd 'when my homies call', niggas was definately hollerin back. but when he went all out with 'thug life til i die', he attracted a whole legion of fans who were primed for that type of life back then. it was perfect timing. i don't think his lyrical prowess is what make him great. his lyrical ability i don't believe changed that much(he was always very skilled in that dept.), but i think that it's the changes in the man that placed him on top. he put his life before us in his music, and the media, and we felt every bit of it. his impact? better than no other. his lyrical skill? though good, is not great.

M. Riv, sorry to say say but you're full of crap. OUTKAST, OUTLAW.

Eat a dick Fortuna. Alex is a fag's name.

Riv, chill-out. I could go to your level and say “takes one to know one” but I won’t stoop. I said you’re stupid because your claiming in your statement that Pac was never a thug and he created that whole image because he was a poet and smart and this and that. I don’t know what your meaning of thug is to you but it doesn’t mean you can’t be talented, smart or a poet. Your surroundings where you live and environment at home make you who you are. Better yet, when you have time and the money, you should get all his Cd’s and documentaries, sit with a notebook and some Starbucks coffee and just listen to everything he ever wrote from beginning to end and you will see what we are already know. Idiot.

(LOL I see peeps got beef up in here. And that's suppose to be the topic. Well, just keep it on the PC; don't take it to the streets.) First, I'm not the best speller, but Lou if you gonna call peeps out for there editing skills, try to spell "editor" correctly. And I felt what you were saying for a quick second, but then you said Nelly and some others I never even heard of, are above Jigga. I'm not the biggest Hov fan but come on. I may cite how the Outlaws punked him when they said "To my real iggaz stuck in the street game/Cause rappers like Jay-Z be pumpin' Kool-Aid through they veins/ Is it true what I'm sayin'?/ Slap your soft azz to the floor/And watch my fo-fo put peek holes through your door. I may laugh at those lines, but at the same time I will say Jay can flow. Second, to the person who said "all rappers copy," that's not true. And if it were, I'd say at least don't be so blatant about it. But I'm glad you acknowledge the fact that Jigga has copied. That was my point and he copied of the same man. Third, to the person who made a true point that made me think. You are right about how Bone kinda fell off and we really don't know if BIG would have because we only saw two CDs that he put together, so I feel you, good point. However, I gotta disagree about Eminem bringing it to Jada. Naw, did you hear what Jada said 2 Beans? He won with that one line, "I got people in Philly that been where you live/ F--- Scarface my bullets hit women and kids." Okay he ain't win with just that but as you can see, that's a tight phrase to spit. And remember, we have yet to see Em go at a real rapper yet. He is messing with the boy bands and pop stars; but I believe that would be a nice battle. Nevertheless, my money is on "J to the izzA D to the izzA, y'all is puz, don't want no gun plizz-ay" He said that to Beans too. And One more thing. Since we are talking about great rappers, I gotta say Scarface. I haven't felt him in a while, but he has put some meaninful work into this rap game. Holla, Qoolout

ok, this one has been run into the ground. let's get on to something else. who's the best rap group of all time? who's the best right now?

Best group of all time is EPMD. It could have been NWA, but they had problems as most groups do. Or you can take RUN-DMC just for what they did for hip-hop overall. As for the greatest rapper of all time I think people gave BIG that title prematurely. He is great, but did not have a chance to fulfil that title. LL first, followed by KRS One and then Jay-Z who will overtake them all. Longevity should count when making that determination. Don't count out Big Daddy Kane. Has anyone ever dissed him?

NAS IS DA POET....BUT I AINT FEELIN HIM....JAY Z IS COO....BUT I AINT REALLIE FEELIN HIM EITHER...SO FUCK THOSE 2 NIGGAZ......ITS ALL BOUT 2PAC MUTHAFUCKAZ!!!!

best group af all time? maybe tribe. today? outkast i think. i need some input, i may be wrong.

best grupes is the st lunatics, kris kross and the lox cuz old school gotta keep it fa sho tho if you understand

yo i think Jay and nas are good rappers but i think hova is better because we really have not heard from nas in a minute.

yo i think Jay and nas are good rappers but i think hova is better because we really have not heard from nas in a minute.

Holla,

Big Kenny

i think we argued almost every point there is with jay-z and nas. okay ... so we've moved on, huh? group ... or duo?

i wouldn't argue with EPMD, but i can't say the best of all time with certainty. as with jay-z and nas, there are so many considerations: quality of music, lyricism, beats, longevity, commercial success, underground respect, innovation. you gotta look at Wu-Tang. they started everything with "Wu-Tang Clan ain't nothin to fuck wit." they're the first group that continually put out solo projects while staying committed to the group. they brought r&b to the rugged. on any given track, they would have different emceez bringing down with different styles. just peep that "RZA hits" album, and you see how great their songs are, from "brooklyn zoo" to "you're all i need to get by" to "liquid swords" to "CREAM." but, then you look at the fugees with "the score" and with the unbelievable production of that album, lauryn hill's versatility, unconventional beats like the one on "Beast," and rappers that sing. "blunted on reality" is also a great album people overlook, with joints like "the temple" and "vocab." but, how about trend-setters like Diggable Planets who brought classic jazz to hip hop? their second release "Blowout Comb" is a very underrated album. but, as my observant colleague has already mentioned, A Tribe Called Quest for so many years were the fathers of modern hip hop, incorporating jazz beats and rock sounds to their music, a bonafide dj, and two exceptional lyricists. check their resume. who doesn't remember the "scenerio" remix with the Leaders of New School and a young Bus-a-bus?

obvious props go to the forefathers: NWA, Public Enemy, Run DMC, and the Beasties. True pioneers of their time, unwavering in their dedication to create a truly new art form, and just good music.

one,

A.Sol

if this whole thing started off of jay calling proclaiming himself teh king of ny, then i dont know why everyone is making such a big deal about it. yes. biggie was and still is the best rapper ever, and when he once graced the mic, he then was the king of ny, but now that the king has fallen then some how the dynast must continue. and jay z is the well deserved heir to the throne. dont get me wrong though, nas is a very tallented poet, perhaps the next lyrically inclined version of the late great tupac shakur. but in any event, nas really has to take it easy and learn to live with the fact that jay z is the new phenomenon.

one bony

How can a man be better than the man he stole it from?

Property is theft.

I'm real good, but my albums don't reflect it.

Wagner's music is better than it sounds.

I'm possibly the most educated and intellectual responser of all. A few of you need a spellchecker and editer.

This is utter genius. I wish I'd written it.

By the way, what's Rammelzee doing these days?

I was goin to leave it alone, but I gotta holla at Frank right quick. "Property is theft"? Huh? So if I kidnap your son does that make him my son? Nope. I know "Property is theft" sounded nice when you typed it, but that doesn't make it true. A man can't take something, and thus have whatever is attached to it (Greatness). Think about that one. And while we are on biting...I already pointed out Lou's "editer." As for the new topic, best group...I know many may disagree, but the Geto Boys had their time. I'm not a huge fan of the South, but the first few CD's they put out were hot. I can't lie. And that one with Big Mike, it had like 6 or 7 singles. Let me know what y'all think. Qoolout

I have to agree with Lou about the simpeltons in the room. Ya'll niggas need to calm down. But for real, I need to make a couple of pints: First, All ya'll trippin over on the Nas Diss song by Jay Z ( The takeover). That shit was alright, but that was nuthin compared to the Nas diss song called Thun & Kicko by Cormega and Prodigy!!!!! I think somebody quoted the line from the song earlier. Go back up and read that shit, then you'll see what I'm talking about. Third, all this talk about the best MC has been goin on but no where have I seen one of the nicest MC to ever touch the mic come up. For those who don't no, his name is Can-I-Bus. For anybody to say he is not the sickest, illesst MC to touch he mic would be a complete fool!!!! Just read this line : My spit is so cold, It'll turn to iclicles in mid-air adn slit your throat. And Lastly, that bitch nigga dissin Rakin needs to go back home and listen to his NSync Cd. Tis room is for real hiphop heads. If he has any hip-hop know how, he wouldn't even form finger to type up that bullshit. PEACE

One

listen to all ya fake ass dumb niggas listen Jay-Z Is Nie Nas Is Nice but the album GheTtO FaBolOus is better than the blueprints, first of all jay-z has done better than that comon look at hard knock life that whole album is sick ya niggas need to stop hating on my son Fab because the nigga is nasty. Yeah i know he spells his name out too much but think about Jay-z always saying "Jigga" Its The R.o.C" or Roafella ya'll' spelling out his name is fabolous's trademark its what makes him, him thats what he does nobody hates on jay-z for always saying that so ya need to just cop that Fab listen to it and realize my son is better than Hova HoLLa Back At that cuz ya cant deny it.

Tis room is for tearing up my heart into treads, heads. My room tis of tee.

And you know you all are allowed to go to other threads, if you want, like this one about producers.

The best group rappers were KRISS KROSS. A

The best group rappers were KRISS KROSS. Anybody agree?

JUST KIDDING. THE BEST RAP DUO RIGHT NOW I THINK IS M.O.P. HOLLA!

yo, alex. i gotta agree with mriv on his comments about tupac. tupac spent his early years in baltimore and attended a school for performing arts. after moving to oakland, he hooked with the digital underground and was dancer with the group for crissakes. all his early shit was straight up ghetto poetry and social commentary; more like early nas. yo alex, just because a man is poor, black and livin' in the ghetto, doesn't mean he's a thug. i was born and raised on the south side of chicago and seen a lot of crazy shit. i ain't no thug. but i can be, and i certainly can walk into your little suburban mall and act like one. pac was an intelligent man who used his background to appeal to shallow suburban dudes like you who desparately want to believe that 'pac was some sort of gangbanger who hung out on front porches drinkin' fortys and plotting drive by's. it's a business, fortuna, and evidently you bought into it.

Nas's Illmatic better than jay-z can ever do. Nas sold out and so did Jay, Jay was just much better at it. Nas sucks right now, but you know he's got the better ability at true hip-hop than Jay. Jay's got the serious skill at making good crossover hip hop that appeals to everybody, like biggie did, thats why he outsells everybody, but jay still raps way too much about the bling shit that we dont got!! (blueprint shows he's maturing though). So when it comes down to it, we're arguing separate things. I dont understand how anyone can say Jay-z is that great of a lyricist, his rhymes are aiight, but he is entertaining. when it comes to serious lyric quality, look at old nas shit, eminem, and jada (not including the solo, i was dissapointed)

sales mean nothing, nelly outsales everyone. he sold 7 mil with his first cd

so jay-z is startin to mature coz he is now singing heartfelt shit and less of the bling bling and violence,how old was pac when he started rapping that sort of shit,and how old is jay...? do your maths,then you'll know how far behind pac these so called dons are.

First, let me laugh at you young buck. Djenkins, I’m 31 years old kid. All these cats that you hearin on the radio makin platiums albums kid are all my age kid. I grew up with them kid. What you know about rap kid. What you know about where I live, kid? What thugs can’t dance? What thugs can’t be smart M Riv? Let me tell you something. I also represent thug life and also have talents you’ll never understand till you see me, but yet my situatuins at home and my friends that where in the same struggle of being held back, made me be out there thuggin and doing things that would classify me as a thug. I’m not fakin it, it’s real. Pac was there to show us we were not alone. I guess you had a good home too huh Djenkins. You had two strong parents who set you in the right direction and had your back at all times huh? I guess your neighborhood and school were real cool too huh? Yeah this whole rap shit is a business now. But it’s not by minorities kid, it’s ran by the other man that see us with the marketing potential to make a dollar and us to make ourselves be heard and make some money while we at it. And it’s up to us to know and feel what’s real or not, (ex.Remember your idol Vanilla Ice) Pac was one the realest. Suburban dude, yeah right, why you trying me like that kid. Peace.

it is not really a answer it is a statement hova can't be stopped nether can the roc as a whole nas a hater kiss a hater prodigty a hater this cat hated on pac for no reason when he was alive.

Imbeciles, feeble-minded, simpletons, and incompetent individuals please edit your missives before you deliver them to the board. It's actually embarrassing to read your retorts and replies. Jay-Z allied with Eminem in "Renegade" in order to have an available battler to assist him on the bashing of other rappers. Eminem's ability to expose the lyrics are definitely superior to that of Jay-Z's. I personally believe that the only song that's excellent on that Blueprint is "Renegade", and the only reason it's excellent is because of Eminem. Roc-a-fellah is pathetic, thus roc-a-wear is pitiful. Please "cats" get a new wear, perhaps something worth more.

Anti-Jay-z Society. :)

-Lou (Bronx, NY, 14 years old)

We hate all of 'em newbie U.S. rappers over here in Europe. No matter if Jay-Z or anyone else. Run your i-mesh and check out: "Looptroop- long arm of the law" or: "Square One", "KC da Rookie" "Torch", "Shine2, "Denmarks finest", or if you wanna stay on your side of the world: "Dilated peoples", "Rasco", "Brand Nubian", "Berrington Levi", "AZ", "Mob deep", Phife Dawg".

~ Babu- checkt alles: http://www.eimsbush.de http://www.buback.de http://www.showdown.de http://www.dalooptroop.cjb.net

Lou-da-14-year-old, you have a nice thesaurus/dictionary. Or, your junior high has a good "word of the day" program. Chill out, son. This is an internet forum, not the international spelling bee championships.

Much love to all. Hip hop has become a great arena for thoughtful discussions and debate. Y'all heard Mos Def is fucking around with real rock-n-roll, right? He got two of the musicians from Living Colour, one of the guitarists from Bad Brains, and some dude from P- Funk. He's evolving this game, merging rock styles, and not like that Limp Boner shit. Evolution. That's what makes good hip hoppers great. That's what made Pac great. Nas de-evolved. And, Jay-Z hasn't evolved as much as I would have hoped. But, Jay-Z still puts out the diggs. And, if anything, he is a musical mind not to be fucked with.

One,

A.Sol

I just heard that All Out from 2pac's last one with the Outlawz. Pac came pretty tight, not so much lyrically, but with his infectous flow. As for the Jay-z diss, it was typical of West Coast thug-type rappers, instead of trying some clever disses, just went with the typical, he's a pussy so I'm going to kill him. I don't blame jay for ignoring that. Nas came at him with some real "battle" lyrics that deserved an answer and got one on Takeover (nigga sampled the Doors, real hot.) But don't sleep, Nas is mad tight and can deliver when he REALLY wants too.

Now for my local plug, check out that new Tech N9ne representing KC, Anghellic. Personally, I thought the first 1/3 of the lp was kinda hurt, but the rest was banging.

Yo Frank White once said "Whats beef, beef is when your moms ain't safe up in streets". And I will tell one ting Jigga's moms definetly aint safe up in the streets, cause he got another thing coming to him messing around with the Queensbridge like dat. Nas has been keeping real since day one, not like Jay Z firing out all that commercial shit that us real hip hop peeps aint down wit. So fuck Jigga

I understand your point Steve, but I still disagree. If Jigga gonna call out Nas and cuz from Mobb Deep, then he needs to address the others too. I don't even no why he came at Mobb, what did they do to him? If they deserved it, then the Outlaws should have got it too; when Pac was alive, he should have got it too. Even the true die hard Jay-Z fans have to admit that he punked out right there. If everyone is dissing you, you gotta leave them all alone or go at all of them. Give them half a bar and some more....I'm a Jay-Z fan, but he punked out.

all i can say is jay z won this one in my mind. i didn't even know what was going on when i first heard his song, but i just knew he ripped it. i had to do my research and even knowing what everyone else said jay still got it. i can't stand to hear people say that all he talks about is money and hoes cause those be the joints on the radio and if people start judging rappers solely on radio joints, everybody practically sucks (to me at least). the tight thing about jay z is he put's it out there and he don't fake. calling mobb deep ballerinas and showing pics...damn! and about what he said about nas i gotta agree. nas is a poet but i got every cd he put out on blind faith after illmatic and he disappointed me. i feel like jay told it like it was outta 4 cds ill was the best one was okay and the other two sucked. but he didn't fake & try to claim everything nas put out was trash cause then i couldn't agree... so basically jay has my respect. i f*cks with jadakiss though and i only have beanie's first cd but that wasn't as good as i'd hoped, so oh well. all i can say is nas can rap when he feels like itbut he ain't that business savy and jay z CAN RAP as well and he's business savy. and ain't that what it's all about?

Jay has so many hova-haters he can't spend his time addressing every single one of them, personally, I feel that most of the outlawz work is 2 steps from being garbage and they are only hanging off pac's legacy. Nas v. Jay has something worth writing, I don't know what all the mess is with Mobb Deep, but again, talent wise, they are worthy of a return from someone like Hov. If he answers the outlawz, than he has to answer everyone, and just some of the underground stuff I hear shows he has way too many enemies to go after, it would take a whole lp.

This is out of control. If anyone needs an answer to who is the best lyracist of all time. Just listen to the radio.. You will hear his lyrics, samples, beats, chorus' rhyms and what ever else an artist uses in a song. Im talking about NOTORIOUS. Every artist dropping full lengths or singles uses something from BIGGIE. May it be suttle line chorus or an entire verse he is given love by every artist whether east coast or west coast. I AM NOT A HATER AT ALL, NOR DO I HAVE THE CREDENTIALS TO ACT LIKE ONE, im just stating what I hear on the radio and everybody's cd's.

I'm upset that no one here has called me a homo. My wrist is more flexible than anyone's on this board.

If I thought Jay selected not to address the outlawz because he didn't have the time, then I'd say "okay." However, that wasn't it (in my opinion). Now I know I may be wrong, but I feel that it was just a "punk" move. Who else is beefing with Jay? It's not a lot or like it's the whole east coast; it's not too many. They called him out on hit em' up when Pac was alive, and Jigga said nothing; that new song (All Out) isn't the first time they dissed him and won't be the last. Even if they are weak right now, you gotta give em there dues for that Makaveli CD. They flowed on like 50% of the tracks. So I don't buy that about them not being big enough for him to address. Everybody and there mama got Makaveli, they know who the outlawz are; and even if they don't Jay can still step to em. Remember when Pac called out Chino XL? That was the 1st time I had heard of Chino. Pac ain't care if cuz was underground or not; he dissed Pac and Pac came back at him. Bottom line is if a man call you out on a Multi- Platinum cd, (any Pac cd)then they are known. They are known enough for you to bring it to them like they took it to you and like you took it to Nas and Mobb Deep. Qoolout

2 pac is absolutely the greatest rapper, emcee, entertainer what ever you want to call it of all time. he style was so versatile, he put out joints that everyone could relate to from the west, the east, down south, midwest no matter what the location is. and for all yall cats that is talking about he is not lyrically great or his delivery on some joints are weak, keep it real. this nigga even after dre left death row was spitting some ill shit on some wack azz beats produced by suge k. check out makaveli and until the end of time "i was raised by thugs, schooled by killas, learned my mathematical skills from real drug dealers..." come on now listen to this cat. pac could have made a whole lp without any beats and just laced rhymes and niggaz still would have been feeling it. even mos def said this niggaz talent can't be matched, just present this nigga with a important topic and he can assemble a whole lp on that topic and trust me it will go PLATINUM. also, niggaz out now is trying to copy my niggaz style, lyric wise and appearance wise. i got much respect for nas but pac gave it to him on an undergroud track "wuz up wit this nigga nas tryin to ride like THE, wit yo false gangsta ways you aint take five like me"! pac also gave birth to this whole thug persona niggaz try portray: JA RULE, LIL WAYNE, C MURDER, DMX the list goes on. one last comment all this open beefing now between niggaz was established by pac believe it or not because before him niggaz made comments on other emcees, but never had the nuts to say the names, but on hit em up and hit em up 2 pac unleashed fury on all the notch eastcoast cats and didn't sugar coat it. just realize this nigga was and still is today the real deal.

first off, lou youre a fag. second, did yall hear that boy nellys new jam number 1. he went after jay z on that song, if u aint get it then u aint get it. he said" i am number one, 2 is not a winner and three nobody remembers" Hes talkin bout jigga, cuz jigga sold 2nd most. basically nelly said jigga aint shit and jigga still aint respond. Then he went at mobb deep when he said" man im tired of people judging whats real hip hop, be the same mothafuckas who album flop" in reference to tha song quiet storm. "cuz its the real...hip hop, hip hop. Well nelly is puttin it down like a hefty bad and a soda. im out.

Everyone in the world is repping hove right now and fair comment money's hot but come on, brothers given me personally about three traks per album since his first two and that straight is not value for money, o.k i probably got everyone saying ' but the brothers moving units' my answer to that is your right but the argument is not about sales it's about battle raps one of the original art forms in hip hop now all the artists which are involved in battles with jay are making a hip hop fiend like me sit up and listen again come on now the artist that are involved ( prodigy of mobb, nas, beanie, memphis, jada,etc)are all ahead of ther game and to me all appeare to be trying to not let there borough's be shitted on by nobody which i respect plus any of us in tv land couldnt battle any of these m.c's anyway so lets sit back and enjoy the secret wars mega issue in hip hop today ,we have all said mc such and such is nicer than my man now this is a reality lets let it play out hopefully on long play without no extra clips...

p.s pac once put out a flare against mobb deep. pac was supposed to be the greatest m.c that ever lived.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SHUT UP. Now we're dragging Nelly into this? What is going on here?

Well technically Matt, By Your logic Nelly would be dissing himself as well, considering the fact that Eminem was number 1 in sales, not Nelly. But your conclusion was pretty much unfounded to begin with.

For everybody sayin all this shit about 'Hova won this round Kiss won this round...' etc, your wack. Keep it on wax? shut up what you listenin to these rappers evry cd "im hard dont fuck wit me im a drug kingpin im a hustla etc." back it up or shut the fuck up. If u say u gangsta then be a gangsta. Whos gonna put out these cds make millions of $ then turn bitch and start writin disses. I know it's buisness but if no shit comes from this all these nigas is fake ok.

Finally since it's a buisness ya cant blame them on the other hand for makin some teny bopper mtv shit. Why not? If u struggled ur whole life u a true thug u werent shit and some label exec comes with millions of $ if you put out some club shit which of u is gonna say "well i betta not cause the real niggas aint gonna feel me no more". Then THEY AINT REAL! whats real is makin the best of yourself not givin a fuck and doin ur thing. Ya cant blame Nas this guy drops a true CLASSIC Illmatic and (barely) goes gold and sees some1 else in a video dancin around goin multiple times platinum. Anybody in here seriously: who wouldnt go do a song with Ginuwine Sisqo Destinys Child. WHOEVER! and make some $ who give a fuck you bein true to urself and ur hood u give a fuck what some forum mfuckas like all us here is doin.

PS- And that kid lou is staright a dickrider.

Listen amateurs...When Rappers drop their first album..most cases it's usually hot...got they put all their heart, soul and street knowledge into it. After they have made it, they usually make it more commercial and radio friendly to make the dough..having lyrics is one thing..but being able to capitalize and make money is another thing..and that's all jay-z is doing..Nas tried it and it flopped as u can see in Nastradamus..Only a few rappers can keep it gutter and still make money, for example biggie and 2pac..nas smokes too much weed and so he's losing brain cells and he need to lay it up..spend a month or so in the streets...feel that fire that he had when he just started and blaze again..When you already have all you ever wanted money, fame, girls...you start to slack...Pac is the only i've seen taht don't get caught up in dat shit...holla at me youngbucks

Don't be a fool cuz. Of course they gonna keep it on the wax. You think these rappers gonna trade in all their money and freedom for jail? None of us (except you) expect Jay to really step to Nas with an actual gun. None of us believe that Jada will have Beanie popped. Dogg, they are selling records, giving us what we want. If you want some gun play then YOU start some gun play. Then you turn around in your second paragraph and contradict the first one. Duh. I can't even believe I'm addressing this nonsense. Second, on another note....peep the rappers who can't touch their 1st cd......DMX, Bone (maybe), Ice Cube, Scarface (his early stuff),Puff, and Snoop. Anybody else? So don't just bring it to Nas. Holla. Qoolout

yo i didnt say i expect jigga to bring some gunplay into it. I doubt hes even touched a gun in atleast 10 years. My point was not that they should do that, we obviously dont need another tragedy like pac and biggie. But at the same time it sounds like you are sayin you KNOW theyre all fake and wont do nothin and we all fallin for the shit. I dont fall for it.

I know Prodigy especially needs to do somethin or he aint gonna be makin no $ after that balerina shit at summerjam.sta and I know jigga isnt. Noone needs to die but something bigger than "Fuck you!" "no fuck you!" "oh yeah well you a bitch!" needs to go down for anybody involved in this to have anymore cred. For example Cormeaga fucked Nature up in a fight in QB a few years ago and that jus shut down Natures cred and took another wannabe out of the buisness. No one needs to lose their life thats awful.

I wasnt contradicting myself that was a different point. Im sayin any real thug who grew up poor and speaks the truth in his music aint gonna turn down goin some $ if he went through the struggle. But now the struggle has been mixed with the tough thug shit and is just fucking up rap. PERFECT EXAMPLE: Fabolous. He got skills but he sold out. I dont blame him but he needed some heart on that album and he didnt show any. Ill respect someone more for makin a radio friendly song then sayin hes hard on the album when hes not. Not that most give a damn about anybody but dead presidents. Lets rep the hood thats great but if u got so much love for it why not give some of that money back and help the projects. Thats what I jus dont like period.

And dont talk down to me saying why dont I bring the drama. I dont pop shit on records and make millions off gullable people who buy into it. You jus misunderstood what Im sayin. I love hiphop and all, but its so diluted with fakers talkin shit to noone in particular, but suddenly when shit goes down they get quiet.

I know Prodigy especially needs to do somethin or he aint gonna be makin no $ after that balerina shit at summerjam.sta and I know jigga isnt.

My bad i meant jigga is gonna be makin $ off this shit.

First of all, if you felt that I was "talking down" to you, my bad. Maybe it was just a misunderstanding, like you said. Second, you said, "whoever says 'Jay/Jada/etc. won this round or that round' is wack. Well, I said Jada won 1 round and I felt the need to address your comment. Moving on, I feel that if they beef anywhere but on CD's, they are punks. If they wanna be ganstas and fight people and all that, then they are in the wrong place. The music biz is not here to do anything but entertain and make pockets fat. If someone gets their feeling hurt on CD and they can't respond on CD, but wanna fight it out, they are childish. If they wanna be street, then they can stay in the street and out of the studio. Qoolout

FUCK JAY-Z FUCK NAS FUCK PRODIGY FUCK BEANIE FUCK JADA FUCK EMINEM MY POINT? EVERYONE WILL HAVE THEIR FAVORITE MC, EVERYONE WILL HAVE THEIR OPINIONS. THE MC's WILL BEEF, YOU WILL BUY/DOWNLOAD/BURN ETC. WHATEVER THEY HAVE OUT THERE. MY QUESTION: HAS ANY MC EVER DONE ANYTHING FOR YOU? HAS ANY MC EVER GIVEN U MONEY? DONATED A LIL' SUMTHIN TO HELP U KNOCK OUT SOME OF YOUR BILLS? BOUGHT U THOSE RIMS U ALWAYS WANTED? AND I'M SUPPOSED TO SIT HERE AND ARGUE ABOUT WHO IS BETTER AT WHAT??

-WHAT THEY EAT DON'T MAKE ME SHIT!

This is Jay-z response Nas should learn to keep his mout shut next time and respect the king that has taken over this rap game!!!!

Jay-Z] R.O.C., we runnin this rap shit Memphis Bleek, we runnin this rap shit B. Mac, we runnin this rap shit Freeway, we run this rap shit O & Sparks, we runnin this rap shit Chris & Neef, we runnin this rap shit

The takeover, the break's over nigga God MC, me, Jay-Hova Hey lil' soldier you ain't ready for war R.O.C. too strong for y'all It's like bringin a knife to a gunfight, pen to a test Your chest in the line of fire witcha thin-ass vest You bringin them Boyz II Men, HOW them boys gon' win? This is grown man B.I., get you rolled in the triage(?) Beatch - your reach ain't long enough, dunny Your peeps ain't strong enough, fucka Roc-A-Fella is the army, better yet the navy Niggaz'll kidnap your babies, spit at your lady We bring - knife to fistfight, kill your drama Uh, we kill you motherfuckin ants with a sledgehammer Don't let me do it to you dunny cause I overdo it So you won't confuse it with just rap music

R.O.C., we runnin this rap shit M-Easy, we runnin this rap shit The Broad Street Bully, we runnin this rap shit Get zipped up in plastic when it happens that's it Freeway, we run this rap shit O & Sparks, we runnin this rap shit Chris & Neef, we runnin this rap shit {*"Watch out!! We run New York" -> KRS-One*}

I don't care if you Mobb Deep, I hold triggers to crews You little FUCK, I've got money stacks bigger than you When I was pushin weight, back in eighty-eight you was a ballerina I got your pictures I seen ya Then you dropped "Shook Ones," switch your demeanor Well - we don't believe you, you need more people Roc-A-Fella, students of the game, we passed the classes Nobody could read you dudes like we do Don't let 'em gas you like Jigga is ass and won't clap you Trust me on this one - I'll detach you Mind from spirit, body from soul They'll have to hold a mass, put your body in a hole No, you're not on my level get your brakes tweaked I sold what ya whole album sold in my first week You guys don't want it with Hov' Ask Nas, he don't want it with Hov', nooooo!

R.O.C., we runnin this rap shit B. Sigel, we runnin this rap shit M-Easy, we runnin this rap shit Get zipped up in plastic when it happens that's it O & Sparks, we runnin this rap shit Freeway, we run this rap shit Chris & Neef, we runnin this rap shit {*"Watch out!! We run New York" -> KRS-One*}

I know you missin all the - FAAAAAAAME! But along with celebrity comes bout seventy shots to your brain Nigga; you a - LAAAAAAAME! Youse the fag model for Karl Kani/Esco ads Went from, Nasty Nas to Esco's trash Had a spark when you started but now you're just garbage Fell from top ten to not mentioned at all to your bodyguard's "Oochie Wally" verse better than yours Matter fact you had the worst flow on the whole fuckin song but I know - the sun don't shine, then son don't shine That's why your - LAAAAAAAME! - career come to a end There's only so long fake thugs can pretend Nigga; you ain't live it you witnessed it from your folks pad You scribbled in your notepad and created your life I showed you your first tec on tour with Large Professor (Me, that's who!) Then I heard your album bout your tec on your dresser So yeah I sampled your voice, you was usin it wrong You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song And you ain't get a corn nigga you was gettin fucked and I know who I paid God, Serchlite Publishing Use your - BRAAAAAAAIN! You said you been in this ten I've been in it five - smarten up Nas Four albums in ten years nigga? I could divide That's one every let's say two, two of them shits was due One was - NAHHH, the other was "Illmatic" That's a one hot album every ten year average And that's so - LAAAAAAAME! Nigga switch up your flow Your shit is garbage, but you try and kick knowledge? (Get the fuck outta here) You niggaz gon' learn to respect the king Don't be the next contestant on that Summer Jam screen Because you know who (who) did you know what (what) with you know who (yeah) but just keep that between me and you for now

R.O.C., we runnin this rap shit M-Easy, we runnin this rap shit The Broad Street Bully, we runnin this rap shit Get zipped up in plastic when it happens that's it Freeway, we run this rap shit O & Sparks, we runnin this rap shit Chris & Neef, we runnin this rap shit {*"Watch out!! We run New York" -> KRS-One*}

A wise man told me don't argue with fools Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who So stop with that childish shit, nigga I'm grown Please leave it alone - don't throw rocks at the throne Do not bark up that tree, that tree will fall on you I don't know why your advisors ain't forewarn you Please, not Jay, he's, not for play I don't slack a minute, all that thug rappin and gimmicks I will end it, all that yappin be finished You are not deep, you made your bed now sleep Don't make me expose to them folks that don't know you Nigga I know you well, all the stolen jew-els Twinkletoes you breakin my heart You can't fuck with me - go play somewhere, I'm busy And all you other cats throwin shots at Jigga You only get half a bar - fuck y'all niggaz

listen to all ya fake ass dumb niggas listen Jay-Z Is Nice dont Get me wrong but the album GheTtO FaBolOus is better than the blueprints, first of all jay-z has done better than that comon look at hard knock life that whole album is sick ya niggas need to stop hating on my son Fab because the nigga is nasty. Yeah i know he spells his name out too much but think about Jay-z always saying "Jigga" Its The R.o.C" or Roafella ya'll' spelling out his name is fabolous's trademark its what makes him, him thats what he does nobody hates on jay-z for always saying that so ya need to just cop that Fab listen to it and realize my son is better than Hova HoLLa Back At that cuz ya cant deny it.

Ok lets see here. I've sat and read most of the responces to this and I got to say damn. So imma address all of this:

Jay-Z: Truly the King of N.Y.........4 now.

Nas: He'd regain throne if he just dropped something (please) the streets are thirsty.

Eminem: HE'S WHITE?!? NO-FUCKIN'-SHIT! Get off his nut sac he's a bomb ass rapper. Just 'cause he can rip 50% of the black- "jiggy" rappers out right now, dont hate. Just let it go.

DMX: (My favorite except 4 when he droped "and then there was x..." but he gots "the great depression" now so it compensates) He should definently be in this arguement....and beleave me, he will soon.

Prodigy: He's tight but to be against Hova is a no-a. Wouldn't you think he'd learn his lesson after "hit em' up"? LL COOL J: I'm sorry but the gets nuthin' but props in every thing he does. And he truly deserves to be the G.O.A.T. 15 years, all platinum, own lable, clothing brand, and not to mention dope-ASS lyrics.

Canibus: Go home.

Method Man: Another tight-ass rapper that nobody seemed to mention. So I'll do it...the muthafuka got skillz.

Nelly: Who the he hell let this guy in the conversation?

Master P: All I got to say is "make em say unhhh" WHU DUH FUH? Get that shit out of here.....imeadietly!!!!

Fabolous: To address that I'd like to say a quote from Jay-z: "He's alright/but he's not real." He's good for now but to be on this level, come back with more credentials. And watch, if he gets just a little bit futher in status people are going to give him the "gangsta-pop" vibe just like they do to Jay-Z.

So in short, Nas please we need you asap. Not downing Jay or anthing, but just don't go out like that. But they did rip eachother though. I'm out. One.

Rok.

P.S. Does anybody feel me when I say Scarface did NOT deserve best lyricist of the year. He's not real bad or anything but......................no.

Jay-Z is a PoP rapper period! He may recieve more commercial success but is that how we measure greatness? After all Hammer, Vanella Ice, and Young MC sold a lot of records but in the minds of most will never be considered great Hip-Hop artist. Nas is exactly that; an Artist. Nas on each album has grown, changed, experimented and expressed new ideas. Jay Z in my opinion has remained static in his lyrical concepts. I ask you how many times can you listen to "I'm the best, I sold crack, I got ice and nice cars" Conceptualy Jigga could never see Nas, use of vocabulary; Nas is much more articulate, delivery; hands down goes to Nas, Tracks go to Jigga, comerecial appeal goes to Jigga. What I have found is that most fans of the music Like Jay-Z because he has made alot of money; but I ask what dose that do for you? In the end it comes down to this Jay is Probably the greatest "Slick Talker" in the game and Nas is a natural born "Street Poet" saying Jay Z is the best based on the fact that he has sold more records than Nas is like saying Michael Jackson is better than Prince, or Kenny G is better than Wintin Marsalas, or Britney Spears is better than Whitney Houston. Nas's work has increased in depth and substance while the general public has remained shallow. In order off 1 - 5 here are my greatest; Rakim, KRS-ONE, Nas, Public Enemy, Jay-Z.

Never was a big Nas fan. Mobb Deep/Capone N Noriega/QB is my shit. Jay Z would not be here if Biggie and Tupac and Biggie still were, read that again if you must. I think Nas and Meth to an extent tried to go that route but it wasn't really them. Puff Daddy/ Nas collaboration was wack. Jay Z raps to 11 year old white girls mainly.

yeah we all know Kweli shoulda won that lyricist award

NAS IS THE BEST RAPPER ALIVE RIGHT NOW! HANDS DOWN! JAY-Z IS ON TOP OF THE GAME RIGHT NOW BECAUSE HE'S ON T.V. EVERY FIVE MINUTES AND HE MAKES COMERCIAL CLUB BANGERS, AND THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WHO BUY HIS ALBUM LIKE HIS BUBBLE GUM RHYMES AND BABY-FOOD LYRICS, AND THAT'S JUST BECAUSE REGULAR LISTENERS TODAY JUST LIKE SH*T THATS PLAYED ON THE RADIO AND THEY DON'T LIKE TO THINK, NAS HAS ALWAYS DROPPED QUALITY LYRICS THAT MADE YOU THINK WHETHER YOU LIKE THE SONG OR NOT, AND HE ALSO PUT OUT SOME COMERCIAL JOINTS TOO, NAS IS A WAY MORE VERSATILE RAPPER THAN JIGGA!,JIGGA IS AN INCREDIBLE RAPPER DON'T GET ME WRONG, IT'S JUST THAT SKILL FOR SKILL AND LYRIC FOR LYRIC NAS IS WAY BETTER THAN JIGGA, IT'S LIKE NAS SAID ABOUT JIGGA "YOUR FLOW IS ONE DIMENSIONAL,YOUR LEVEL IS SECOND GRADE, YOUR ON TOP WHAT COPYING F**K I SAID IT FIRST YOU REPEAT IT, YOUR FALSE CROWN COVERED IN DIRT DEFEATED, Y'ALL N**GAZ ALL HALE THE KING IS DEAD!,HE'S RUNNING LIKE A B*TCH WITH HIS TALE BETWEEN HIS LEGS!,IT'S STILLMATIC STILL EYE FOR AN EYE, YOU WANNA BE GOD! YOU'RE JUST THE NEXT RAPPER TO DIE F**KING WITH NAS!"

ALL Y'ALL CATZ THAT ARE HATING ON NAS RIGHT NOW SAYING THAT HE FELL OFF AND HE'S GARBAGE AND ALL THAT OTHER BULLSH*T, Y'ALL JUST WAIT WHEN NAS DROPS STILLMATIC AND WE'LL ALL SEE Y'ALL JUMP BACK ON HIS D*CK LIKE SOME GROUPIE B*TCHES, Y'ALL ARE FEELING JIGGA RIGHT NOW BECAUSE HE HAS DROPPED SIX ALBUMS AND HE CONTINUES TO DROP ALBUMS CAUSE HE IS CEO OF ROC-A-FELLA, NAS BEING DEPRIVED OF THE PRIVILAGE OF BEING CEO HAS ONLY DROPPED FOUR ALBUMS, NAS IS HUNGRY RIGHT NOW AND HE SIGNED WITH VIOLATOR SO Y'ALL HATERS WILL SEE WHAT TIME IT IS WHEN HIS ALBUM DROPS FOR REAL! IT'S LIKE NAS'S NEW JOINT PRODUCED BY SWISS "N*GGAZ SALUTE ME,B*TCHES SALUTE ME, SO F*CK WHO YOU ARE I'M DA M*THAF*CKING GENERAL!" WORD!

For all y'all bitches who aint know, Hov is on top of the game right now. Shit when the last time Nas ol' fucked grill having ass came out with a fucking hit? Illmatic was an tight joint, but it aint got shit on the Roc. And can't nobody fucking contest me on that shit. Nas' career has just gone to shit and his pussy ass needs somebody to blame for it! Tupac is and will still be the greatest of all time. Second, comes B.I.G., then without a doubt comes HOVA. That gay ass Oochie Wallie or whatever you wanna call it just prove that this nigga needs to improve his fucking style. I aint dissin Nas' talent cause he has lyrical skills. But he needs to stop being a bitch and step up to the fuckin' plate and stop hatin cause Jay Z has the balls to go for shit and keep it poppin. Fuck what ya heard. Like the song Takeover says, R.O.C.- they runnin this rap shit.

Hey, there's a lot of passionate hip hop heads out there and it's cool that everyone represents their opinions in such a thoughtful and intelligent manner (for the most part). I agree that Pac and Biggie rank #1 and #2 as far as all time MC's go. After that, a lot of names have been mentioned, but no one has thrown Big Pun in the mix. I'm a huge Pun fan and think he had a remarkable combination of lyrics and flow. His wordplay might not be as good at Biggie's but he's in the same league. What do ya'll think of Pun?

Hey yo it's all love, but love's got a thin line and Pun's got a big nine, respect crime but not when it reflect mine The shit I'm on is wrong but it lasts long Pull a fast one, then Pun'll wake up, with the stash gone I'm mad strong, and my cream is fast Smoke the greenest grass, my bitch got the meanest ass and a taste legit, I don't have to waste a whole case of Crist' All it takes is my pretty face and my gangsta wit Lace the click, cause we all share It's all fair like love and war, thug galore with the long hair Big Pun, Pun the name that makes the kids run Like spelling murder reverse it deliver redrum Come one, come all, if you wanna brawl I'm the mighty Thor clotheslining motherfuckers like Steven Segall Cause all you gonna get, is your ass kicked or up in a casket That's it (that's it?) That's it

Robstradamus!! Holy shit, I want that to be my rap name.

Well, if you ask me, none of these niggaz will ever amount 2 my nigga Pac. Not just Jay, Prodigy(Balerina boy), Nas, Beans, or Kiss. I'm talkin' 'bout N-E rapper out. But, about this beef, I got different takes on it. First off Nas fell off after Illmatic (Which never went gold), and even if your a Mobb Deep fan, lets face it, Mobb Deep was never shit as a clique, let alone Prodigy goin' solo. I feel Jigga will rip Prodigy 2 fuckin' shreds lyrically. And when it comes 2 album selling capability, Nas ain't got shit on HOV. Overall Jay-Z wins. But, lets not forget about how Pac verbally bitch slapped his ass on some of his tracks before his passing. Mobb Deep responded 2 Tupac. I believe Nas did too. What da fuck was Jay's problem? And recently on Pac's latest CD Until The End Of Time, Da Outlawz dissed him on a track called All Out. Jay-Z still has been silent about dat shit. But he's quick 2 answer 2 N-E other beef. Obviously Pac is da real winner here becuz none of deeze coward muthafuckaz wanted drama wit' Pac or hiz lil' rydaz da Outlawz. Oh, Beans and Jada, dats Little League beef. I'm more interested in the DPG DEathrow beef myself, not 2 be sleepin' on my niggaz. ONE

Yo let me kick it to all yall, none of yall know. Nas will Kill Jay'z all he rhymes about is cars and jelewry something rich people can only relate to. And yall go out and buy that garbage. His flow is the same about the same thing. But since he's on MTV and on everything, you except him and like him. Nas is a real lyrists a poet his vocabulary is deep. Jigga cant make songs like Nas, He would fail. Nas can do both he's versatile. But people hate on him because he real, and he dont change for yall he doing his thing he never fell of his lyrics are still there. That CD Nastradamus wasn't really nothing but the other half of his double Cd that suppose to came out with I Am. Stillmatic will prove all of yall wrong. Do yall really listen to rap, it seems Jay-z brainwash all yall. Wake up. Jay-z isn't real he just out trying to make money and he fool all yall. Check the Wu album, they called him a cat in the hat ass rapper. Mother goose nursery rhyme rapper, he wearing suits spinning on his big ass lips. They call him a RB rapper said that was what he was trying to turn it into Rapping Bullshit. All yall like is commercial ass rappers so whoever say Jay-z better than Nas FUCK ALL YALL 4 REAL. MY NIGGA NAS IS NICE AND ON TOP OF HIS SHIT. HOLLA!!!!

I hope I didn't see someone say Big Pun was in the same league as Biggie? My eyes! My eyes! They burn from the blasphemy!

Who is the greatest MC of all-time?

Invariably the reply to this question would be one of the following: Tupac, Biggie, Nas or Jay-Z. However, in a world where both Biggie and Tupac are dead, and artists such as Nas and Jay-Z are systematically sacrificing their artistic integrity with "back-to- back LP's that sound the same", there is an artist who outshines them all.

"The perseverance of a rebel I drop heavier levels It's unseen or heard, a king with words Came out to hustle but I seen street dreams deferred Dark spots in my mind where the scene occurred"

Indeed, ever since he brought us the urban sonnet "i used to love h.e.r," Common has captivated fans of true hip-hop with his exceptionally poetic lyricism.

Mindful of retaining ones roots in the face of commercial success, Common, much like The Roots before him, is on a mission to achieve greater exposure so as to bring real hip-hop artistry to a market firmly in the grip of the sample-laden, commercially motivated, "Jiggy Thug" era.

"I'd be lying if I said I didn't want millions More than that money saved I wanna save children Dealin' with alchoholism and afrocentricity A complex man drawn off of simplicity Reality is friskin' me This industry'll make you lose intensity The Common Sense in me remembers the basement I'm Morpheus in this hip-hop Matrix exposing fake shit"

Yo. Much love out to all y'all. There is finally someone with some sense up in here. When y'all talk about "street poets" and deep ass lyrics, y'all got to recognize my man Common. Welcome to 2001. You're bound to see a lot of wack shit, undoubtedly, but Common wants to show you the high point of the fake millenium. He wants to show you that disappointments don't come from all artists, and innovation can only be your friend. Common isn't a man for the intellectual hip- hop heads and the coffee-shop crowd; Common is an artist for everyone. ODB says Wu-Tang's for the children? Fuck that, Common is. Dead Prez is repping for the African folk? Fuck that, Common is. What's that? You're white and you're not sure what hip-hop is aside from a hopscotch move you practiced with your mom? Fuck that, Common's for you. No matter what you do, no matter what genre of hip- hop you're into, no matter what you wear, you can fully appreciate Common throughout the 16 cuts on this LP. I'm still trying to see where Common lacks the skills to be called hip-hop's best MC; not just currently, but of all-time.

I'm really sorry.....but i gotta give it up to 'fabolous sport'. he's been reppin 'fabolous' from the beginning of this thread to the present. of course most people are totally ignoring his ass. but you gotta give it to him for his blind loyalty.

Common?! The best MC?! First, I thought I heard it all with someone saying Pun was in BIG's league. But this has to be the worst. Common sells no records. His last record was supposed to be the shit. LP sales aren't everything, especially considering Illmatic didn't go gold. But at least he did that in the early 90s. Now a truly good hip- hop/rap album should AT LEAST go platinum. For Common to be the best he has to distinguish himself from Black Thought, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, DJ Hi Tek, Dead Prez, Pharoah Monch, and the rest of these "sound the same" Rawkus cats. Their delivery is horrendous! For all their deep ass lyrics, Mos Def is the only one who can make you feel it in his voice (and he's not really that good at it). 2Pac came out with lyrics just as deep as Common and whoever, but his delivery was 10 times better. Plus, these cats aren't as witty as Nas, Jay-Z, BIG, or Eminem. Hell, Ludacris and Project, at least they make me laugh and feel good. All Common does is make me think about death and cussin out White people. And his shit doesn't even sound good! His production lacks considerably. That's why he lacks as a complete MC. He is a poet/prophet - I'll give you that. But turning poetry into music is harder than you think, and Common doesn't do it. And another thing, no one has more of claim to being true hip-hop than anybod else. 2Pac is no more hip hop than Biggie who is no more hip hop than Master P, Nelly, Jay-Z, DMX, Ludacris, Missy Elliot, Mobb Deep, Eminem, Bubba Sparxxx, cats still underground, and the list goes on. They all fall under the category "hip hop rappers." Don't hate cause Jay-z makes a club song, Project Pat has no lyrical skill, and Common lacks potent delivery. You don't have to like it (like I don't like Rawkus), but that doesn't make it any less hip hop. But I digress. Common is absolutely NOT the best MC today, yesterday, nor will he be tomorrow if he doesn't switch up his flow, work on his beats, reflect his soul in his voice, and in general, improve on his musical skills. Deep ass lyrics do not make a good MC. Peace.

I gotta say I never agreed with you all more than I do now. #1 L.D, yes, the Outlawz called out Jay and he addressed everybody but them. That was weak on Jay's part. He punked out. I'm glad someone finally agrees with me on that (scroll up, I've been saying it since 4ever). #2 Don Was, you are 2 right. I'm not feeling Fabolous, but cuz is and he has shown nothing but 'blind loyalty' (like you said) LOL. #3 Hills, Common? Sales mean nothing nowadays, but yes, Common is not even worthy of being in this dabate. I'm not hatin', but come on.... Common being called the best??? Qoolout

PEACE to the positive people of the U-N-EYE Much love to all the Gods in the industry making motion for the the heads on the streets. We at war ( f*ck Bush and his fake a** war on terrorism ) The government wants to shut the black youth down and we need to realize that we play A major role in shaping the reality of this world. We need that realness that made hip hop live to come back for many have strayed mesmerized by the " glammer and glitter ". Hip hop is the art and science that has turned the world in A new direction by moving the youth in many countries. Nas and Jay knows this they got knowledge of self they know the struggles the black youth has endured so keep it street GOD keep makin them street anthems that inspire each one teach one. MUCH LOVE PEACE and HAPPINESS

Amusing that in all these discussions of the greatest of all time, no one has mentioned the absolute best ever: RAKIM!!!

Well, for all that we know the world of hip hop is a game. You have to master that game to become the greatest, and frankly blue print is a master of this game. For those of you who don't know who blue print is, it's jay z that is how he want to be known, and of course I'll give him that respect because he earned it for sure.

Jay-Z is better than Nas....PERIOD

A little clarity on the origin of the Jigga/Mobb Deep verbal conflict. There was an article in the Source quoting Havoc "This nigga wasn't around when Snoop came through,crushing them buildings." Referring to the infamous East-West coast beef awhile back which spawned the"New York,New York,"video and song made by those kids,which of course featured a giant-sized Snoop crushing famous NY buildings.Anyway,They went on to say that Jay shouldn't get no love from NY,cuz he wasn't on the frontlines when the bi-coastal verbal slugs flew. Not to mention he made a song responding to Pac's "Hit 'em up" called Dead or Alive. This song featured Jay and Sauce Money blazing Pac after he passed away.I guess he was "persuaded"not to put the song on the Album.The last line was the one that got'em,"We needed the nigga dead." Mobb Deep stayed the course and released "Drop a Gem on 'em" and released it on their album regardless of Pac's passing. So all you folks in Nebraska and Maine,and Minnesota,claiming to know what's going on, now you know.This has been a long time in the making.

best group = wu tang best female = foxy brown best right now = jay z yall look out for that nigga billy bathgate and please dont bring puffy into this debate, have you seen his new video?? nuff said

I think that J.Z. is a "fresh dope" and he's a "wack chill". I never heard of Naz but I'm sure he's A "phat crush" who really "busts a freak" rhyme song. My favorite hip hopper is P. Diddy. He's the most "on the hook". I hope J.Z.'s new CD isn't "the Bomb", that sounds really dangerous.

Oh, by the way, I think alot of you are mistaken. The word "Jigga" doesn't start with a "J" it starts with an "N" according to my computer's spell check. I know it's right because I just got this computer and it's brand new. Oh well, "Peace On" "Home spice"!

NAS RESPONDS, FUCK GAY Z, NAS IS STILL THE GENERAL JIGGA IS FOR FEMALES AND LIL ROMEO FANS REAL HEADS KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS, JUST CHECK:

Verse 1:

So you call yourself god mc... J-hova\ drunk the glass of blasphemy & forgot to pray over\ your games over\ crossed the warpath of a brave soldier\ you're a makeover\ my protege trying to takeover\ I was the sheperd that led you\ But you bit the hand that fed you\ mad cause since I met you i never did respect you\ and as hard as it seems\ you know that I fathered your dreams\ you was a groupie always begging to be part of my team\ another case of a boy and his teacher\ I was the first to poison your speakers\ so kill all that noise that your preaching\ I understand\ all your plans to underhand\ aired threats of you pullin my card next summerjam\ let me make this clear hova\ You had my left overs\ she told me your little problem of the day when you slept over\ but that's another subject homey\ ***** you phony\ I'm coming to collect the debt from the years that you owe me\ so what you capitlized... only cause i allowed\ I'm taking aim at your dome\ and reclaiming my throne\ "Who said I that i aint still nasty"

Verse 2:

How you planned on facing\ the half man half-amazing\ Don't need a fam, Nas is a one man invasion\ claim you hot but you flopped with your roc-familia\ cause real recognize real and you're not familiar\ call yourself gansta but you were begging for pardon\ that night in carbon\ when terror squad flipped on your squadron\ Tried to front on their checks\ till pun put a gun to your chest\ YOu said it yourself dog, Nas is one of the best\ Don't need to search for some dirt to expose you\ I leave it up to the flow dispose you\ when i oppose you\ This is it I'm calling ya\ come out and play like "warriors"\ studied my blueprint then pieced together your formula\ Guess the knowledge I speak too deep to follow\ that's why your stomach to weak to swallow\ The real truth that Nas is\ the greates of all timers\ f*ck skeletons, keep only weaponry in my closets

[ Thurs., Oct. 11, 2001 11:03 AM EDT ]

Read that above dunny. That rhyme speaks for itself. Nas is way to advanced and in depth for Jay Z. Oh yeah I forgot most of you Jay Z fans probably don't know how to read true rhymes since yall so damn concerned with those disco looney toon azz beats that Jay Z acquires. Nas is the next man after PAC and Big realize it. Just wait 'til Stillmatic drops!!!!!!!

OHHHHHHHHHHH. LOL LOL. I'm feelin' that Nas comeback, but I need to hear it, before I can say it's really hot. Somebody tell me the name of it. And some one tell me this. I just heard the Jay-z "Wanted Dead or Alive" song. Is this suppose to be about Pac? I heard it was made after Pac died. Now, I got respect for Jigga, but I'll lose it if this is true. Somebody clue me in on this. I know this man did not make a song about a dead man, after he said nothing when the man was alive. Holla

No, it was made before his death, but he died, and he decided to take it off his CD...holla

-m dogg what what

i really want to respond to much of what i read, but fact is i don't think any pac fan can be swayed into believing he's not the GOAT. there's really no sense in addressing that. you just have to accept the differences of opinion. i have to say that i am enjoying this jay vs nas beef, only because it's bringing the fire out of them back.

WHAT THE FUCK. ALL OF YOU ARE TALKING SOME NONSENSE SHIT.JADAKISS RIPPED THE SHIT OUT OF BEANIE.I LIKE BEANIE BUT THAT BITCH PISSED ME OF DISSIN MY MAN JADA.AS FOR MEMPHIS BLEEK HIS TRASH RAP ASS HE LOOKS LIKE A FUCKIN CLOWN WITH ALL THAT SHIT ON HIS HEAD HE CANT EVEN MAKE UP HIS MIND ABOUT WHAT HE IS GONNA RAP ABOUT.HIS ASS WILL GET RIPPED BY SHEEK OF THE LOX. AND FREEWAY BETTER NOT COME WITH NO SHIT DISSIN NOBODY CUZ HIS ASS LOOKS LIKE A GORILLA WITH THAT HIGH ASS VOICE.AND FOR THOSE OTHER NO NAME ROCAFELLA CATS DONT COME OUT DISSIN SHIT CUZ NONE OF YALL BETTA THAN THE LOX.ANYWAY BEANIE DID GOOD IN DJ CLUES MIXTAPE BUT JADA RIPPED HIS ASS.THAT BITCH BEANIE TRYING TO GET PHILLY TO HATE JADA. NOW EVERYBODY IN PHILLY HATES JADA CUZ BEANIES FATASS.YO WHEN I MET YOU ,YOU WUSZ ON MY DICK/ JIGGA GAVE U HIS OLD BENTLEYS NOW U ON SOME SHIT/I DONT KNOW WERE THEY FOUND U SON/BUT INA MINUTE SINCE YOUR POPS AINT AROUND AM A PUNISH U AND GROUND U SON /AND NIGGAS CANT STAND YOU SIGEL YOUR FLOW IS MINE ANYWAY SO DONT BITE THE HAND THAT FEED YOU/THEM NIGGES THAT GAS YOU IS ASSED TO(THE ROC)/. THATS A SAMPLE OF THE JADA FREESTYLE SO IF YALL GET THE CHANCE TO LISTEN TO IT YALL WILL KNOW WHO IS EMERGING AS THE KING OF NEW YORK.WHICH BRINGS ME TO THE FAKE KING OF NEW YORK.LETS ANALYZE THIS.HIS FIRST ALBUM WAS HIS BEST ALBUM AND PLUS NAS WAS HOT SINCE HIS FIRST ALBUM ANYWAY SECOND ALBUM WAS ALLRIGHT THEN CAME THAT SORRYASS HARD KNOCK LIFE ALBUM WHICH GOT PLAYED OUT. THEN CAME LIFE AND TIMES THAT ALBUM WAS PRETTY GOOD. BUT THEN THE TRASHIEST ALBUM EVER TO COME OUT IN RAP HISTORY CAME OUT THAT DYNASTY ALBUM WAS SO WACK . I HOPE YOUR SHIT KEEPS ON GETTING BOOTLEGGED CUZ THE OTHER RAPPERS DONT EVEN PAY THAT MUCH ATTENTION TO THE BOOTLEGGERS IN THE STREETS OF NY.THATS WHY YOUR ALBUMS SELL SO MUCH BECAUSE YOU DONT LET NONE OF YOUR ALBUMS GET BOOTLEGGED. WHYLL OTHER RAPPERS ALBUMS ARE GETTING BOOTLEGGED DAILY. AND THEY DONT SELL AS MUCH AS YOUR BIG LIPPED ASS. IF YOU GET BOOTLEGGED THAT MEANS YOUR HOT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND YOU FOOL.ANYWAY MY MAN NAS WOULD RIP YOUR ASS HE SHOULD GO ON SUMMER JAM NEXT YEAR AND PUT YOU ON THE SPOT LITE "HAWAIN SOPHIE"THATS ENOUGH FOR ME . ONE.

HELL NO.WHAT THE FUCK. ALL OF YOU ARE TALKING SOME NONSENSE SHIT.JADAKISS RIPPED THE SHIT OUT OF BEANIE.I LIKE BEANIE BUT THAT BITCH PISSED ME OF DISSIN MY MAN JADA.AS FOR MEMPHIS BLEEK HIS TRASH RAP ASS HE LOOKS LIKE A FUCKIN CLOWN WITH ALL THAT SHIT ON HIS HEAD HE CANT EVEN MAKE UP HIS MIND ABOUT WHAT HE IS GONNA RAP ABOUT.HIS ASS WILL GET RIPPED BY SHEEK OF THE LOX. AND FREEWAY BETTER NOT COME WITH NO SHIT DISSIN NOBODY CUZ HIS ASS LOOKS LIKE A GORILLA WITH THAT HIGH ASS VOICE.AND FOR THOSE OTHER NO NAME ROCAFELLA CATS DONT COME OUT DISSIN SHIT CUZ NONE OF YALL BETTA THAN THE LOX.ANYWAY BEANIE DID GOOD IN DJ CLUES MIXTAPE BUT JADA RIPPED HIS ASS.THAT BITCH BEANIE TRYING TO GET PHILLY TO HATE JADA. NOW EVERYBODY IN PHILLY HATES JADA CUZ BEANIES FATASS.YO WHEN I MET YOU ,YOU WUSZ ON MY DICK/ JIGGA GAVE U HIS OLD BENTLEYS NOW U ON SOME SHIT/I DONT KNOW WERE THEY FOUND U SON/BUT INA MINUTE SINCE YOUR POPS AINT AROUND AM A PUNISH U AND GROUND U SON /AND NIGGAS CANT STAND YOU SIGEL YOUR FLOW IS MINE ANYWAY SO DONT BITE THE HAND THAT FEED YOU/THEM NIGGES THAT GAS YOU IS ASSED TO(THE ROC)/. THATS A SAMPLE OF THE JADA FREESTYLE SO IF YALL GET THE CHANCE TO LISTEN TO IT YALL WILL KNOW WHO IS EMERGING AS THE KING OF NEW YORK.WHICH BRINGS ME TO THE FAKE KING OF NEW YORK.LETS ANALYZE THIS.HIS FIRST ALBUM WAS HIS BEST ALBUM AND PLUS NAS WAS HOT SINCE HIS FIRST ALBUM ANYWAY SECOND ALBUM WAS ALLRIGHT THEN CAME THAT SORRYASS HARD KNOCK LIFE ALBUM WHICH GOT PLAYED OUT. THEN CAME LIFE AND TIMES THAT ALBUM WAS PRETTY GOOD. BUT THEN THE TRASHIEST ALBUM EVER TO COME OUT IN RAP HISTORY CAME OUT THAT DYNASTY ALBUM WAS SO WACK . I HOPE YOUR SHIT KEEPS ON GETTING BOOTLEGGED CUZ THE OTHER RAPPERS DONT EVEN PAY THAT MUCH ATTENTION TO THE BOOTLEGGERS IN THE STREETS OF NY.THATS WHY YOUR ALBUMS SELL SO MUCH BECAUSE YOU DONT LET NONE OF YOUR ALBUMS GET BOOTLEGGED. WHYLL OTHER RAPPERS ALBUMS ARE GETTING BOOTLEGGED DAILY. AND THEY DONT SELL AS MUCH AS YOUR BIG LIPPED ASS. IF YOU GET BOOTLEGGED THAT MEANS YOUR HOT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND YOU FOOL.ANYWAY MY MAN NAS WOULD RIP YOUR ASS HE SHOULD GO ON SUMMER JAM NEXT YEAR AND PUT YOU ON THE SPOT LITE "HAWAIN SOPHIE"THATS ENOUGH FOR ME . ONE.

I think Jay-Z and Nas are both great MCs. With this new beef, it's bringing out the best in them. No more, "I'm Jay-Z/Nas so whatever garbage I put out will sell" nonsense. They are bringing it a la 2Pac, and the shit is nasty. But I hope you have noted the aura of 2Pac lingering around this beef. Especially Nas. Whoever typed Nas' verses to Jay-Z earlier have to see the exact same shit 2Pac said about Nas. "This nigga named Nas think he live like me, talkin bout he left the hospital, took 5 like me." Straight Pac. So Jay-Z and Nas can have they beef, but like the real G.O.A.T. said, "you and I know what's goin on..." Also, I heard Jay-Z's "response" to 2Pac. As a song, it's tight, but there's not as much response to Pac as I might have expected. He doesn't even say Pac's name, but he says that the person talkin about Hawaiin Sophie (i.e. Pac) has been on his dick a long time.

On a different note, what's up with Snoop in a horror movie? Jimmy Bones? Snoop is really wildin out.

Jay-Z has earned my respect on several levels. As a commercial artist, he has dipped MTV into the far reaches of ghetto life (whether or not he's been to Marcy in a while). He has clever wordplay which is smart enough to make you laugh without thinking too much. Nas delivered a classic with "Illmatic" and I believe that all who jumped off the bandwagon will be sure to hop back on when "Stillmatic" is released. Nas outdoes Jay-Z by feeding the streets hunger for relevant poetry. Jay-Z's fatal flaw: sacrifices introspection for sales. Nas' fatal flaw: has not matched his first work yet. Either way the battle between the two has awakened hip-hop. Since the death of B.I.G (fuck Tupac, he stunk to HIGH heaven), fans have not really bothered to discuss who might be greatest. This "beef" makes it safe for us to dispute and criticize which, in turn, helps the genre grow in general. Let's look at some battles which have added spirit to the Hip Hop community in the past. Common v. Ice Cube (Common wins) Canibus v. LL Cool J (why is LL still even rapping?) Tupac v. B.I.G./East Coast (Tupac may have been a great actor but lyrically he matches some five-year-olds) Beanie Sigel v. Jadakiss (Beanie Sigel doesn't understand that knockout punches are quick and witty, not long and boring) Cormega v. Nas (don't sleep on Mega, he ate Nas' food BIG TIME) Jay-Z v. Nas (In my mind, Nas has not devoted a whole song to dissing Hove yet, and if he does, it will be what "Takeover" tried to be. Jay wins for now though)

Bitch, don't let me ever see you dis 2Pac like that. You can say he stunk to high heaven, but bitch, he brought it to a whole coast on Hit Em Up, and if the acid he spit on Hit Em Up is like a 5 year old to you, then you need to critique alternative cause you don't know shit about rappin. And don't get me started on the heat from No More Pain, Against All Odds, Bomb First, etcetera, etcetera. 2Pac produced classic after classic while he was alive, while BIG couldn't go multiplatinum until he died. I love BIG, but unless he is alive somewhere making more albums, he will never be the greatest with 2 LPs. Never. 2Pac was considered the greatest before he died, unlike BIG who received votes for that title out of respect. And wherever those two cats are, BIG needs to be thankin Pac for all the free publicity, and puttin his name out there for the whole world to hear. It has been said in this discussion before, both Nas and Jay-Z are trying to be like Pac in this rap battle. Jay-Z usin Nas' voice (a la Pac using Get Money) and Nas sayin Jay-Z copied off of Illmatuc (a la Pac sayin Nas' whole style is bitten). Anybody who thinks 2Pac stinks better keep their day job, cuz no matter what you thought of his albums, you can't deny his appeal. Everybody loves Pac except for all you wack ass NYC catz (all NYC catz aren't wack - just the 2Pac haters) who want to pick somebody from your city to be the best. And since BIG got shot, Nas fell off, and Jay-Z was just beginning, y'all picked him. But the truth is Pac combined the image, lyrics, delivery, production, appeal, and sales better than any MC could ever dream. Better than Eminem, Jay-Z, or anybody who claims to be hot now. So yeah, bitch, 2Pac was a good actor, but he was the best MC ever on the mic, still is, and it'll be a while before anybody can take his crown.

"All you busters is jealous, pull out yo argument and post it, I dare you niggaz to leave in the thread, this future lawyer will roast it."

I made that verse from Mr. Shakur's "No More Pain." (-Plus all you busters is jealous, pull your gun out and blast. I dare you niggaz to open fire, I'll murder that ass-). I guess I'm just like Jay-Z and Nas cuz I'm stealin shit from the greatest. BITCH!

to determine who is the greatest out of all of these cats, take their nicest lp's and compare them. Pac= All Eyes On Me, Big= Life After Death, Hova= Reasonable Doubt, Nas= Illmatic. In order from least to best comes Reasonable Doubt, Life After Death, Illmatic, and All Eyes On Me. Hate all you want but it is true. And as far as Biggie is concerned, Pac exposed his azz to the world, letting him open up shows for him when they had a friendship. infamous quote "biggie i remember when i use to let you sleep on my couch and beg a bitch to let you sleep in her house, now lets talk about versace you copied my style, five shots couldn't drop me i took it and smiled." yeah yall niggaz remember it, and i bet yall was hatin the shyt out of pac cause he ripped the whole fucking east coast, and they retaliated with sugar coated attacks like Brooklyn's Finest, Dead or Alive, Drop a Gem on Em, and Dead or Alive. Sugar coated means talking about someone in particular but not stating that persons name, SCARY COWARD AZZ NIGGAZ!!!

Oh, by the way, since I'm a 2Pac fan, I have to say that what I wrote earlier was for Andrew Ricketts bitch ass, and anybody else that I catch hatin on PAC. Just like my nigga, when I respond, I use names. Ho ass bastards...

jo just to let chall know nas is too garbage!! Jay-Z already japped on em on the blueprint cause hes a laaaaame!!!! nas aint on shit with jigga. beanie sigel japped longer than jada but jada japped harder on em'. jada was bogus for rappin with nas do that shit made him look garbage. but im bout to get little peace out

I guess you feel great being an e-mail thug huh, Adrian? Just like your little idol Tupac, talking a lot of shit but not saying much. I respect Tupac as a poet and an actor but anyone who was ever a fan of hip hop (language, form and style) knows that Tupac was not the most complex artist. It's cool that you love him so much though. I think simple people need music too.

Andrew Ricketts, I'm not an email thug. I'm a Post A Message thug. Gangsta, if you will. And all I know is, you claimed 2Pac was as lyrically sound as a 5 year old. Bitch, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. First, somebody said Pun was in BIG's league, then Common was the best MC ever, and now you hatin on 2Pac. 2Pac haters is nothin new, but the fact that 8 out of 10 hip hop heads know Pac is the greatest says somethin about the other 2 that ride somebody else's dick just because they didn't particularly like 2Pac. I mean, I can THINK Outkast is tighter than Jay-Z, but damn, I can't deny the fact that he's hotter than they are. I'll buy a UGK cd before I buy any of BIG's, but I ain't stupid enough to say Pimp C is the greatest MC of all time! So for all you PAC hatin bitches (hold up, here comes another tight reworked PAC line...)

"Two years ago, a friend of mine Told me everything I post in threads blows the mind Bear witness to the dopest fuckin message I post Takin off my coat, clearing my throat"

I'm so tight...

And what's up with you calling me Adrian? Why not Hillis 3000 or H3K or something like that? Are you trying to show that no matter what name I use, I'm still Adrian Hill at Vanderbilt? Are you being slick, Andy? Huh? You're so clever - and I'm so simple...

There has been a post on this thread every day for the past 40+ days. That is unbelievable.

Aiight. I think something needs to something needs to be said about COMMERCIAL rap. All of you 'thugs' and 'ganstas' will always have to find new rappers, because hardly anybody keeps the thug life for long. It's like this, remember when you were 16 and got you first fast food gig? Then you went to college, did you stay at that fuccin' job? Do you still want to make 5.15, fucc NO! You want to move up, and you have to use the system to do it. If I make a gangsta album and it selss 300,000 copies, under def jam I just made 1.2 million dollars. That's enough for 1 Bently, 2 hot girls, and 1 platnum chain. They won't play your shit at the clubs, and half the 'thugs' that like it alot stole it anyway. Now, you want to make 5-6 mill, you need to go triple platinum. Everybody needs to feel you, people who will buy your album. That means, club goers, pop lovers (the biggest genre), and dancers. That is the system, you have to change up. Even a smart 'hustler' knows how to use the system. You don't know Jay, or NAS...both are dirty ass thugs, but their friendly on MTV, but that's just for show. The best found out how to work the market, first they got our attention b/c they were thugs, then they used the market. Examples:

Artist Thug Debut Sold in 1 mo Now Sold in 1 mo Jay-Z Reasonable Doubt 178,000 BluePrint 1.2million Ja Rule 3:36 241,000 Pain is Love 500,000+ DMX Dark/Hell Hot 377,000 Then...X 714,000

Are we understanding now?

Jay Z is hot and can definately handle NAS on any level, don't sleep on the ROC.

1

ALLRIGHT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN LET ME GIVE YOU THE OFFICIAL LIST OF GREATEST MCS 1.RAKIM 2.KRS-ONE 3.2-PAC 4.BIGGIE 5.BIG L (THIS CAT IS HOT) 6.NAS(STILLMATIC IS GOING TO SHOW YALL) 7.MOS-DEF 8.COMMON 9.BIG PUN(RIP) 10.CANIBUS 11.MY NIGGAS FROM THE WU(GZA,GHOSTFACE,METHOD MAN ETC)(THE BEST RAP GROUP) 12.JAY-Z 13.LL COOL J 14.RASS KASS 15.KOOL G RAP 16.EMINEM 17.PRODIGY 18.TALIB KWELI 19.JADAKISS 20.DMX(CUZ THE GREAT DEPRESSION IS BRINGNG HIM BACK) 21.REDMAN 22.BLACK THOUGHT 23.PHAROAH MONCH 24.BUSTA RHYMES 25.CAPONE............................................................. ...................................................................... ...................................................................... ...................................................................... ......................................1,500 AND THE WORST MC EVER.E-40 WATCH OUT FOR BILLY BATHGATE AND FABOLOUS THEY ARE HOT.

Maybe the Tupac thing was a cheap shot. I'll give you that. Let's not get to personal issues though. Don't call out my name. Only bitch-ass kids use rap quotations to justify their weak arguments. Sure, I'm from New York. This status entitles me to opinions about hip hop that your tiny brain probably has never even considered. I know you feel that this is America, with free speech and all that. However, do not get carried away. Some stupidity should be kept to oneself. I respect Tupac fans, but not Tupac dickriders. He's dead. Please, get over it. I'm sure you were not his friend. I'm sure you were not at his funeral. He's not coming back. It's time to move on. Hip hop continues to grow without him. I know you're stuck in the past and you probably fantasize about his balls on your chin and other homoerotic pleasures. Regardless, he is gone. It's okay that you thought he was sexy but do not let that color your opinions of music. Don't fuck with a hater...next time I won't be so nice.

Bitch, I will slap you and ya mama. Only weak ass little kids bring up the issue of homosexuality to justify their arguments. I'm a grown ass mine. I justify my arguments with cold hard facts: BIG didn't sell like Pac, Jay-Z doesn't have the respect like Pac, Nas couldn't stay on top like Pac, and any other NYC rapper you can pull out can't fuck with anything 2Pac has done in hip hop. His delivery was so sick it was uncanny. Jay-Z is too monotone, Nas sounds like the 5 year old you mentioned earlier, and BIG has too much snot in his throat. Lyric wise, he may not be as witty or clever or catchy as Jay-Z or BIG, but his lyrics were 10 times deeper, and he was more of a poet than Nas, Common, Mos Def, or any other Back to Africa bastard that claims to be real hip hop. KRS-1, Rakim, all those cats - where they at NYC? Whatever happened to longetivity? How come Snoop and Too $hort, some lyrically cats, seem to outsell everybody in the NYC? It's cuz they really. I'll tell you what else is hot. Not KRS-1! Don't get mad cuz Pac told him it was "all over now, take it like a man. Niggaz lookin like Larry Holmes, flabby and sick..." Bitch, you just mad he brought it to yo city, and all NYC cats fall like the World Trade Center. And I'm not gon remake a line from Pac this time. I'll use one of your NYC boys...

"It's like New York's been soft ever since Al-Qaeda and them planes came through and destroyed the buildings..."

So Andy, bitch, let's see how mean you can REALLY get.

And another thing, Andy, bitch, I didn't know Pac, nor did I attend his funeral, and yes he is dead. But you didn't know him either, you didn't go to his funeral, so I doubt you would have said any of the shit you said earlier to his face like a man. It takes a real pussy to take cheap shots at a dead man on an internet site.

MY TWO CENTS ABOUT A FEW THINGS: Overall, Pac was and is the best rapper to touch the mic. He is gone and is still the best. Rakim and all the others had their time back in the day, but they are gone now. Pac is dead and his stuff is still tight and wayyyyy deeper than any rapper out there. Plus, 90% of the rappers out have copied him in some way. NEXT: I give love to east, west, north and south, but overall, east is the best (in my opinion) as far as rap goes. I do admit that we (east) have some nonsense peeps, but so do the other coasts. East and west claim Pac, because he came from the east, but he moved to the west, I admit he took on the east and he got that W if you ask me. NEXT: Those rappers who call out others without saying their names are some fakers. More so if that rapper already said your name i.e. Pac and Jay-Z. If I say your name and you sugarcoat it on your comeback, then you got "PUNKED." LASTLY: Jada killed Beans, he used Beans own song/album titles aganist him, called out the peeps that gased Beans and even mentioned Beanie's mother; he killed him. As far as Jay and Nas, Jay said some harsh stuff, but the "takeover" wasn't his best flow. Saying laaaaammmmme and fammmee and wussy and all of that was weak, and faking like he gonna call Nas out, I wasn't feelin it too much. But Nas... he spoke on how he never respected Jay, and how Jay got punked by Pun and how he had his leftovers (LOL LOL). Thus, I give the win to Nas. He didn't just flow, he made you think.

YO AM TIRED OF ALL OF YOU BIENG ON PACS DICK HE WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST MCS. BUT HE WAS NOT THE BEST SOME OF YOU ARE JUST SAYING THAT HE IS THE BEST TO GO WITH THE CROWD CUZ THATS WHAT THE CROWD SAYS .BUT NO YOU KNOW HOW MANY OTHER PEOPLE COULD RIP HIM UP IN A BATTLE.YO CATS THAT HAVENT EVEN COME OUT YET COULD PROBBALY RIP HIM. TO ME PAC WAS A HARDCORE GRIMEY MC HE AINT CARE ABOUT SHIT. THATS WHAT i LIKED ABOUT HIM.ANYWAY I THINK WHOEVER IS THE KING OF NEW YORK IS THE KING OF RAP BECAUSE NEW YORK HAS THE BEST RAP! WEST COAST HAS SOME TALENT BUT THEY AINT ON NY LEVEL.DOWN SOUTH JUST PLAIN OUT SUCKS ACCEPT FOR OUTKAST.AND THE MIDWEST IS NOT EVEN IN THE PICTURE WITH SORRY ASS NELLY.NAS IS GOING TO TAKE THAT CROWN VERY SOON YALL WATCH AND WATCH OUT FOR JADAKISS

What's up people?

OK. I've been reading these posts for about an hour and I want to contribute my thoughts:

First, arguing about the best ever MC is kind of like people who believe in GOD arguing with atheists. People are going to believe what they want no matter what.

But, having typed that, I need to add that, with regard to Tupac being the best, I don't think even the most rabid Tupac fan (if he's intelligent) can say that he was the best LYRICIST. When you examine lyricism, you have to consider metaphor, simile, wordplay, alliteration, turns of phrase, etc. In these areas Tupac, like most other West coast MCs (and, even though 'Pac was originally from NY - nobody brought this up for some reason - he claimed CA) came up a bit short. 'Pac relied very heavily on his flow (and honestly, I don't think there has EVER been a more passionate, urgent, powerful delivery than 'Pac's) and let that be his guide through the hip hop jungle. East coast MCs, on the other hand, rely VERY much on simile and clever double entendre to shape their lyrics. Biggie, Nas, Jada and Eminem (who isn't exactly East coast but owes his style to the east) all have mastered this technique to one degree or another. It's a coastal, stylistic difference. That's why East coast cats have more love for Biggie than 'Pac (in general) and vice versa in the West.

The other category in which I think 'Pac shuts down ALL other MCs is in work ethic. Tupac is, without question, the most prolific MC of ALL time. Consider this: Tupac drops his first album, 2pacalyse Now, in 1991. He's murdered in 1996. In between that time, he officially released (if we include Don Killuminati, which he had finished) 6 albums. Furthermore, he'd recording over 100 other songs that hadn't found a home on an album yet. All that work in 5 years (1 1/2 of which he'd spent in prison). No other MC can boast that kind of productivity. So, when it comes to flow and productivity, 'Pac is first. I'll leave the 'Who's the G.O.A.T. LYRICIST' debate to you other cats.

Before I go nuts, I must say Lovelle is right. Arguing about the greatest MCs is like believers versus atheists. And I also agree that Pac ONLY as a lyricist, was not the best. That said, I ask what makes Michael Jordan greater than Shaquille O'Neal? You can say you'd rather have Shaq on your team, and that's fine. That's your personal opinion. But when consideringwho is the greatest, you have to consider what he's done, not potential/personal feelings, etc. Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever because of the six championship rings, numerous MVPs, scoring titles, defensive awards, All-Star games, three-peats, the 72-10 team, and even before all that, he still was in the top 5 in the league. Look at what Jordan actually physically accomplished, and you'll see he's better than Shaq all time. So goes Pac. Sure, you can like BIG's wordplay more. Sure you can make BIG your favorite. But, c'mon. He didn't do near as much as Pac, and his claim to fame is in potential. I said it before, and I'll say it again: 1 or 2 hot albums do not make a great MC. Ask Nas, Mobb Deep, and especially BONE. They fell hard after their first album. Biggie could have, too. I doubt it. Who knows, Biggie could have pulled a Baby Jordan (i.e. Harold Miner). I find it unlikely, but possible. So 2Pac is the greatest because he was the most successful, and 8 out of 10 people agree 2Pac is the best, so you have to give him the nod. If we just pick MCs based on our own personal preference, then Master P and Nelly could legitimately be considered better than Biggie. Of course, that sounds ludicrous, but y'all took it there, not me.

Now this is for that Lox, bitch, punk bastard who wrote that shit in all capital letters earlier... Bitch, you kiss my entire black ass. Bitch, being a Pac fan don't mean anybody is on his dick. Bitch, we just realize he's better than anybody, and that's why the muthafucka's dead and still gets more props than any MC still livin. Where's BIG's shit? Born Again? That shit was a disgrace, but I won't hold it against BIG, cause that's not his fault. And you can all that King of NY=King of rap nonsense, cuz if you ask me, New York only has 2 legitimate contenders: Ja Rule and Jay-Z. And Ja Rule isn't that impressive. DMX and Nas have not matched their earlier success. But anyway, NY is so full of shit and building rubble it's ridiculous. You say the South (where I'm from) sucks, but bitch, why do all you New York cats take our style and our beats. I'll tell you why. Pac exposed the pussy that ran all through NY and so after he died, everybody came to South cuz we made ya head knock, and you can put in any track and it would be hot, cuz we know how to sell music. So you wack ass NY cats wanted your supposed Crown of Rap back, so you (mainly Jay-Z) came down here and begged us for our beats. So we gave em to you, restored the buildings Snoop crush, then y'all want to act like y'all the kings again. Don't bite the dick you ride, NY. If the South is so weak, why do you always beg 8ball and MJG to do collabos (i.e. Mase, Puffy)? Why did Juvenile expose how weak Drag-On is in "Down Bottom?" Why did UGK jump on Big Pimpin (which was produced by fellow southerner Timbaland - who saved NY's ass) and make Jay-Z look lame? Jay-Z and Puffy tried to rap like they from the south and they just sounded stupid, cuz their delivery is weak. And then what about Jadakiss beggin Fiend and 8ball to do a song? Why Jay-Z beggin the Hot Boys to do collabos with him? Cause y'all bastards need the Dirty, Dirty. We don't ask people from the North to do songs, cuz we can sell with out you bastards. But the NYC cats know they need the South to sell outside of NY. That's why Outkast and Jay-Z came out on the same day last year, and Outkast won the head to head battle. And that's why 400 Degreez sold more than Hard Knock Life. And that's why Project Pat, Trick Daddy, Ludacris, Three 6 Mafia, and other southern cats (who stink lyrically) can go platinum, cuz the South gives all coasts what they want, while if it wasn't for us, you NY cats would still be using third-grade beats from 1993. So, bitch, just like BIG should do Pac, the whole city of NY should thank the South for putting NY hip-hop back in the mix.

maybe i didn't make it clear earlier. YOU DO NOT ATTACK PAC!! pac fans take the shit straight to heart. this shit, as you can see, can get ugly fast.

i'm from the east coast(born in philly), but raised down south. always loved pac. never felt he was the greatest. but that's not the type of music i listen to. always a fan of hip hop, my standards are lyric-based. most of my favorites, many of you have probably never heard of. but this is what makes us individuals. we are alike in that we all have a love for hip hop(rap), but our differences in styles are obvious. because of moving around a lot in life i gained an appreciation for different types of hip hop. of course i won't buy it all, but i respect originality and talent no matter where you're from. as far as jay z, nas, pac, big, jada, beans, and whoever else, it's definately some strong opinions out there. but don't let 'a fans loyalty' become disrespectful. getting your point across is one thing, but look to the art itself. if you can't express your opinion without a certain amount of respect for the person you're talking to, then you're wasting your time and simply starting a fight. no one can learn that way.

best lyricists in my opinion: ras kass(west); talib kweli, mos def (east); eminem(somewhere in the middle); outkast ,yes, both of them (south); and many, many, many underground artists that will never go platinum. some will never even get a contract. sad. anyway, sorry this was so long.

I remember you saying that before (Don Was) about you can't tell a Pac fan that he's not the best. Maybe you are right because I feel he was the best and still is. And Hillis did kinda jump out there on the Lox cuz with all caps, but he had it coming. I didn't agree with the jokes about the buildings (no disrespect) but I felt what he was saying about Pac and I did agree with that. With that said, I'll say that peeps can break it down however they want and into how ever many parts, meaning this person may have had the better rhymes, but the next had the better hooks, etc. etc. But overall Pac was the better and best rapper, take it how you want. No one has dropped BOTH hardcore diss tracks (Hit em' Up, Aganist all Odds), and deep songs like Dear Mama, Brenda's Gotta Baby, Keep Your Head Up. I'm saying, he was very versatile and no one has matched that as of yet. Many try, Ja, Jay, etc. None of the new one's can do it. But this of course is my opinion so anyone can disagree, but just think about what I said, before you disagree. Also, I'm from D.C. so I can't shoot off a list of rappers who put us on the map. But I gotta say that the east clearly has the best rappers when you look at it from a numbers standpoint. Each side has some fools like Nelly, and each side has someone who can rep it like Em, but right now, the east has more. Earlier, I DID point out the fact that Pac honed his skills on the east side. But all I care about is "Can he or she flow?" I could care less about where they reside.

MY 2 CENTS: I just wanna say a couple of thangs: 1st, Tupac was easily the best lyricst/MC/rhymer of all time. 2nd, all yall niggas dissin Common, Mos Def, and Talib Kweli obviously are to stupid to recognize real hip hop. Third, all this bull-isshhh about Jay Z being better than Nas will end the DAY Stillmatic comes out. When Nas shows yall why he's still the best NY MC alive today, then all these bandwagon jay z lovin niggas will shut the hell up. So in the meanitime, all my fellow Nas fans, don't even argue with ignorant ass niggas cause it ain't worth it. One

B

has anyone heard stillmatic yet,(the whole cd)?. i haven't personally so i'm not going to put my hopes into nas just yet. i've got to hear it first. if he brings it this time, i'll be the 1st on this thread to give him his respect. until then, i've got to put my money into something i can stand to listen to more than once. i'm not rich, i can't just buy shit based on hype. nas has disappointed me too much in the past.

yo, most of u sons a bitches don't know shit. Jay is gay, a homo, he's the softest most "pop" rapper in the damn game now. I'll admit Nas fell off, big time, and this will bring him back, but at least he ain't str8 up pussy like jay. I think alot of rappers have fallen though, u can't really blame them. When niggaz first come out they bring the best shit and put mad effort 'cause they hungry, after awhile and some success niggaz ain't as hungry, it takes beef to get some damn effort. Look at all da niggaz thats fallen: Busta(mad pop now, Anarchy was the worst thing I ever heard and he used to be my fav), WU-tang( meth everyone they suck ass unless they on someone else's shit, Tical 2000 was the worst cd ever,so was the "W") DMX's first cd was off da heezy, second was str8, everything since has been pop ass party music,redman was the man but now he's just ok, snoop is str8 up homo pretty much, alot of niggaz dun fell off.

and 4 all u fags sayin' jayz is da best lyricist u gotta be shittin me! He ok, thats the most I'll give him. Pac and Big are obviously the greatest fine, thats been established. But people in the game nowadays its tough ta find really good lyricists. Slim is incredible, but he's slippin slightly too, not terribly but a lil. Royce da 5'9 is the fukin man and people ain't been givin him props, alot a people don't kno who he is. Canibus is great, but his beats and production suck ass. Big L was pretty damn good too b4 he got hit. Nas has always been good until the last album or so, Jay may come out w/ a cd every 2 months, but alls he's sellin is horse shit. Nas is gonna tear him the fuck up just like he did w/ the fu-schnickens shit. Its all over ain't even worth arguin about. Jay is a pop pussy homo and its about damn time someone called him on it. I don't wanna hear anymore about his 83rd trial or Big Pimpin part 47, its wak its done, beanie suks, rocafella suks, its time for some fukin creativity in the rap game 'cause its really startin' to suk.

I also gotta agree w/ my nigga B, common and mos def, especially mos def are tight as hell

does anyone actually think jay is gay, or is this just a part of showing disrespect to him. i'm not trying to be funny, i'm serious. cause i haven't heard anything concrete about him and other men. someone let me know, cause that's just unacceptable!!

i agree with some of what karl has said. many artists have fallen after coming out strong. staying on top of the hip hop game is probably the hardest thing to do in music. simply put, many artists not only lose their hunger, but their credibility when they start making millions. i'm not sure how outkast continues to stay original and on top of the game. they get madd respect from me. jay? i can't front, i haven't bought all of his cd's, but year-in year-out he has my head noddin to at least 1 or 2 cuts. but he does piss me off sometimes with the rkelly, mariah c. bullshit. but i guess that's the business side of it. not for me to understand. for the record, 'blueprint' is pretty much bangin'. nas? won't believe in him til he proves it. i can bring up illmatic but so many times in an argument. he has to help a nigga out. potential doesn't cut it anymore.

You just cant admit the greatest rapper is Eminem

1. Lyrics-no one more original, wittieer and tighter, and he can switch up flows (forgot about dre)

2. record sales- jayz is minor leagues compared to Em

Karl hit it on the spot. JayZ aint shit and he never was. Nas already killed him in stillmatic. I read the lyrics and Jayz is as good as dead.

I dont know aboutthe feud, both Nas and Jay Z are nice..Nas did fall off after Illmatic, but how can he ever top that album?? Its a classic. Period. Jigga is dope...but some of your talking abouth the greatest rapper of all time?? If you haven't heard,his name is 2Pac. hands down..BIG entertained you, but Pac inspired,motivated and captivated you!! Tupac Amaru Shakur-T.T.E.O.T.

With the exception of Illmatic, Jay-Z is on top of the rap game, theres no denying it. Nas fell off a long time ago, why do you think his new joint is called "stillmatic". This feud is gonna sell a lot of copies for both these dudes, but you got to be careful with this shit, you saw what happened to Pac and Biggie!

What the fuck are you talkin' about. U musta smoked you're self retarded Mark. "watch out 'cause u know what happened to Pac and Biggie", are u a newcomer to the rap game? Mad niggaz dun beefed before and it hasn't ended in death. Eminem and everyone alive have caught beef, so have all the other rappers, but especially in this case w/ Nas and Gay Jay neither one would ever let it get violent.I think that thats the last thing that would happen in this case. Its just gonna be a lyrical ass whoopin against Jay. Damn I'm tired of ignorant sons a bitches yappin w/ no sense or knowledge, ya jackass!

YO AM TIRED THAT BITCH ASS NIGGA HILLIS 3000 COMING UP IN HERE TRYING TO START SHIT. HIS ASS DOSENT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT RAP. I READ MOST OF THIS THREAD AND HIS BITCH ASS IS ALWAYS TALKING SHIT TO SOMEBODY ELSE.I WAS LAUGHING MY ASS OF WHEN I HEARD THAT COMEBACK IT MAKES ME REALIZE HOW MUCH FUCKIN IDIOTS ARE IN THIS WORLD. AND HOW COULD SOME BITCH ASS NIGGA LIKE HIM TALK ABOUT THE BUILDINGS OF NY LIKE THAT.WE AT WAR WITHN SOMEBODY ELSE AND THIS BITCH IS MAKING FUN OF HOW SO MUCH PEOPLE DIED.ANYWAY I DONT WHY YOUR TALKING SO MUCH NONSENSE ABOUT HOW THE WACK ASS SOUTH IS BETTER THAN NY. BITCH HIP HOP CAME FROM NY FROM THE BRONX EXACTLY. "SO IF IT WASENT FOR THE BRONX THIS RAP SHIT PROBABLY WOULDNT BE GOING ON.I DONT KNOW WHY THE HELL DID YOU BRING OUT THEM WACK ASS RAPPERS FROM THE SOUTH LIKE FIEND,TRICK DADDY,8BALL ,UGK,YOU SHOULDNT EVEN BE IN THIS THREAD TALKING ABOUT THAT WACK ASS DOWN SOUTH SHIT WHEN WERE TALKING ABOUT THE GREATEST MCS.SO DO ME A FAVOR GET YOUR STUPID DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT RAP ASS OUT OF THIS THREAD CUZ YOU MAKE NO SENSE TRYING TO PROVE A POINT.ANOTHER THING AM NOT HATING ON TUPAC HES HOT. BUT GET OVER IT THAT NIGGAS DEAD HES NOT HERE ANYMORE. THERE SOMEBODY BETTER THAN HIM OUT THERE DONT DICK RIDE SO MUCH YOU FUCKING IDIOT.

Lox, bitch, I don't start shit I finish it. I ain't gonna stand by and let muthafuckas say dumb ass shit like Big Pun is on BIG's level, Common is the greatest MC of all time, there's a lot of MCs better than Pac, and the Dirty South sucks. Bitch, you said the Dirty sucks, so a cat (whodi, shawty, etc.) that knows about wild parties, fast cars, jewelry in the mouth, slow walkin, slow talkin, and BBQ get- togethers from down heah had to protect his set. If you got somethin to say about the dirty, let us show you what music is supposed to do...make you get wild. We make music for the people, not you so called bitches who know "real hip hop." Bitch, you wouldn't know hip hop if it hit you in the face. Any sorry ass NYC cat that puts out an album, y'all say he's real hip-hop, even if the cat ain't sold one album, just because he's from NY. So while I'm supposedly ridin Pac's dick, I'd rather do that than ride any lame ass rapper out the NYC. That includes Jay, Nas, BIG, Mobb Deep, and whoever else. And if all those South rappers are so wack, why do they have all the collabos and record sales? I know, you're going to say they're "pop" or "commercial," right? Well, just because we know what's hot, don't hate. We bounce, and EVERYBODY appreciates bouncin. You know you like it, too. But deep ass lyrics wilh bullshit beats don't go anywhere other than NYC.

And you big dumb ass, what the fuck does hip-hop being started in the Bronx have to do with anything? Jim Naismith invented basketball, but he ain't the best player ever. In fact, the best player (who can come back at 38 and still kill hoes) is from North Carolina -take ya shirt off- which is in none other than the Dirty.

And about you and ya fuck ass buildings, you and the rest of the fake ass US can suck my dick. Everybody wants to be proud to be American now until about a year from now, when everybody goes back to ignoring people, and white girls start clutching their purses when niggas walk by, or people start back assuming all Hispanics are illegal aliens. And everybody wants to do these wack ass ceremonies to "honor" the dead when no one gave a damn about the hard work they did when they were alive. Don't get me started on America's war and how it takes the loss of 6000 before we realize how precious life is. But I ain't even gon go on about that, so...

Bitch, you and the rest of ya wack ass city can hate the South, but bitch we sittin fat stackin mad paper from record sales, while Jay-Z and BIG are the only NY cats to know the meaning of multi-platinum. And the only reason Jay-Z goes platinum is because he came to the Dirty and learned about how to produce MUSIC and he said fuck NY's fake ass version of "real" hip hop.

P.S. Don't forget about weak ass Prodigy beggin B.G. to do a collabo. P.P.S. I've heard a song called "Want to Play Rough?" that may be on Nas' Stillmatic. Also, the Jay-Z/Rocafella diss on Stillmatic looks good on paper, but the actually song is merely OK. The beat is wack. It's too "jiggy." I think it's a remake of Get Money, but I'm not sure. Also, Nas raps too fast. I was disappointed.

Hey this is for Hillis 3000 or Adrian or P. Diddy or whatever the hell your name is. If you are seriously studying to be an attorney then there is something very wrong with the university/law school you are attending. There's no doubt that your comments on this thread are passionate and heartfelt (although ridiculously juvenile). However, you are a little too sensitive, far too impulsive and way too immature to ever be a successful attorney. In addition, your borderline psychotic infatuation with Tupac Shakur is a little weird "...bitch, don't let me ever see you dis 2Pac like that..." Easy boy. What are you, his little brother? Listen, I like Tupac's work. I like hip-hop. But put the shit in perspective man. You think you can be an attorney!? What's with the jokes about NY City and the burned down buildings? Someone criticizes a fuckin' rapper that you apparently worship and you make a crack about a National Tragedy. You're an easily impressionable, obsessive little fuckin' punk tryin' to spit some sort of pseudo-intellectual bullshit on a topic that, in the grand scheme of things, is not that important. You want to be a lawyer? Why don't you study the works of Clarence Darrow or Daniel Webster, instead of quoting lines from your favorite Biggie song? And this shit of revising Tupac lyrics (like a fuckin’ 12 year old boy) to demonstrate some wit and intellect , “…All you busters is jealous, pull out yo argument and post it, I dare you niggaz to leave in the thread, this future lawyer will roast it…” Are you kidding me!? You’re a dreamer Adrian. You’ll never ever be an attorney. You’re one of those cats who’s an eternal student of life, never a teacher. Save the tuition money Hillis, and stick to that jar of Vaseline and your 2Pac poster. Leave the legal work to those of us who have earned the distinction and are committed to it .

Hi. I don't know who you all are, or how you found your way here, but I'd like to point out that this thread is part of the I Love Music discussion board, available from Freakytrigger magazine. Seeing as how all y'all know a bit about hip-hop, I'd like to invite you to check out the rest of the board, which tends to be a bit lackluster in the rap department right now. Also, I should warn you that the board tends to be more, er... polite and analytical than the direction this thread has taken.

HILLIS YOUR A STUPID ASS BECAUSE YOU DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT HIP HOP I CANT BELIEVE YOU CONSIDER THAT DIRTY SOUTH SHHIT RAP!YOU CLAIM YOU LIKE TUPAC AND NONE OF THE NIGGAS FROM THE DIRTY COULD EVEN COME CLOSE TO TUPAC HE IS JUST ON ANOTHER LEVEL. AT LEAST LIKE NIGGAS THAT MAKE YOU THINK ABOUT THE SHIT THEY SAY LIKE TUPAC.ALL THE FUCK TRICK TALKS ABOUT IS "I AM A THUG" AND I HAVE ALL THESE BITCHES AND CARS AND MONEY. NIGGAS ARE GETTING TIRED OF HEARING THAT SHIT THAT THE SOUTH HAS TO OFFER.YOU NEVER HEARD TUPAC JUST RHYME ABOUT THAT SHIT DID YOU.IAM FROM NEW YORK BUT I LIVE IN MIAMI AND I HAVE TO HERE ALL THESE HATING ASS NIGGAS HATING ON NY AND THEY HAVE NEVER EVEN BEEN THERE. IF THEY EVER GO TO NY TO TALK SHIT THEY WILL GET THERE ASS WUPPED NA'MEAN.I BET YOU ANY FUCKING CITY IN THE SOUTH AINT BETTER THAN NYC.ATLANTA AND MIAMI COME CLOSE BUT NO CIGAR.ANYWAY WHERE ARE YOU FROM?ALL YOU SORRY ASS COUNTRY NIGGAS ARE ALWAYS HATING ON THE NORTH CUZ WE AHEAD OF YOUR BITCH ASSES.CUZ YALL TALK SLOWER THAN US AND ARE JUST PLAIN OUT SLOW IN EVERYTHING.YOU CANT COMPARE TRICK DADDY TO NAS CUZ NAS WILL EAT HIM UP ALIVE.DONT TALK ABOUT ALBUM SALES BECAUSE HALF OF THE PEOPLE THAT LISTEN TO RAP DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT IT.THEY JUST BUY SHIT SO THEY COULD SHAKE THEIR ASSES AND BUMP IT IN THERE WHIPS.AND AM WORRIED ABOUT THAT TWIN TOWERS SHIT CUZ MY COUSIN USED TO WORK THERE AND NOW SHES MOURNING THE LOSS OF HER COWORKERS WHILE YOUR IN THE BACK FUCKING LAUGHING.YOUR PROBABLY ONE OF THEM FUCKING CRAZY ASS MUSLIM SUICIDE BOMBERS OR ONE OF BIN LADENS NIGGAS.IF YOU ARE A TUPAC FAN YOUR SUPPOSED TO LIKE ALL THAT COMPLEXED SHIT MOST NY RAPPERS TALK ABOUT. ONE.

AND ANOTHER THING HILLIS MICHEAL JORDAN IS STRAIGHT OUT OF BROOKLYN.

This goes out to JStephenson who broke out that "student of life, never a teacher nonsense...You can teach and still be a student, fella, who are you the almighty righteous one?? Second of all, all this country needs are more lawyers...Answer this whats your purpose in life?? to be a lawyer-your a magot!!....Yes what happened to the Trade Center was a tragedy, Im from the L.E.S....but it was just a matter of time before that was going to happen. Look at the U.S. Foreign Policy. and the countless other Imperialistic sanctions imposed..

Dear Manny Guervara,

No shit you can teach and still be a student. Read my message you fuckin' piece of garbage. Are you fuckin' stupid! You're justifying a terrorist act that killed thousands of innocent people. "...but it was just a matter of time before that was going to happen...". US foreign policy and imperialistic sanctions? The United States is the most underappreciated and overcriticized nation in the world. Listen you fuckin' worthless piece of garbage, if you don't like this country, please go back the third world country from which you defected. This country doesn't need any more lawyers!? What this country doesn't need is trash like you disrespecting this great nation.

i think it's really cool that intelligent people are finally taking up more space in this thread, but Nas vs Jay Z turning into a political argument? well, i agree that our country definately has it's flaws. that aside, it's still the greatest country in the world. the crap that we do is definately on par with what the worst of this world has done, but the freedom to post this information in a thread is golden. NY? got mad love for you. i'm from the North, Philly to be exact. but for anyone to put down the music of a whole region is probably the most ignorant thing a person can do in this thread. i've lived in the south for years and i'd dare someone to try to move a crowd here on some strictly eastcoast type music. it just won't work. while i personally listen to much of the underground eastcoast type material, i find my self amongst few down here in Alabama. simply put, most of that "real hip hop" doesn't leave NYC. at least that down south flavor travels throughout the south, the midwest and much of the west. though the lyrics may not be deep, enough people like it to call it music. when i first moved down south, i thought it was oh so cool that i was from up north. brothers wanted to be like NY, talk like NY, dress like NY, listen to NY music. that shit played out real quick. brothers ain't really studying NY anymore, and haven't for years. that bullshit about NY being the 'end all-be all of shit that's good', is total garbage. the south has got their own thing goin on, as does the midwest and the west. all NY has goin on is NY. no more no less. my preference in hip hop music is pretty much eastcoast. but what moves me doesn't always move everyone else. if you haven't already learned that lox, you will.

A friend of mine told me to check out this thread to confirm the popular notion that hip hop/rap fans are truly lowlife garbage. Do you realize how funny and embarassing your music is? Chanting monkeys convincing themselves that their "poetry" is profound narrative of "the streets". Bullshit. I've read dumb dead ass Tupac's lyrics. I've read dumb dead ass Biggie's lyrics. These are the "poets" you worship? This is the best you have to offer? Neither of these uneducated waste of lives could even speak the English language properly. In between the "we wuzzes" and other embarrasing attempts at grammar is the essence of hip hop: dumb dribble for a dumb culture. This guy Hillis 3000 is an absolute hilarious clown. Everything you've written is ridiculous. And you wonder why ladies clutch their purses when you stroll by...

Suddenly this thread isn't funny anymore, but turning ugly, violent, and racist. Please keep this stuff off our clean family board, eh?

Yo, first of all let me say both Jay and Nas are tight ass MC's and Jay did rip Nas a new on the Blueprint (Track 2, Takeover), but how can you say Nas fell off. I know people who still listen to It Was Written and I AM. Nastrodamus was average though. But battling MC's is what its about from LL and KoolMoe Dee to Pac and Biggie to this...I do think Jay hypnotized a few people into being his fan with all the ice and chrome 20's but if your hot, your hot. Maybe Fox Boogie can help them work out their differences since she's been known to work with both of them... and for the record Jay wasn't the first to head south... Nas did it with I Am when he had Scarface on track number 5... listen before make an opinion. Put those "How to be Jay-Z" make-up kits away and listen to some music...

Yo, right off da bat, Nas is hot as f*** and too many out there is sleepn on him and yall mustove forgot. He's still da poet wit da illmatic flow, keeping it strait street fa ya ears to list. And as far as Hova is concerned, yeah he still hot and doing his thing but he ain't ready fa "lyrical/battle exercise" wit Nasty. Personally, I feel he definitely went "lime-light" status. He don't write fa da streetz anymore. And even though throughout his career he remained fairly consistant, he'll never be as hot as he was on da Reasonable Doubt. If you cats heard anything from Nas new s*** stillmatic, you a realize that he's taking back to illmatic plus 1. Even though every rapper out there is out fa his head. Last but not least, weather Hov admits it or not, He know Nas is hot. He always gave Nas his props throughout his career; adding him in his personal "Holy Trinity" of rap when he quoated, "argued all day about, who's da best Emcees, Biggie, Jay-Z and Nas." Nas never really respected Jay-Z since Reasonable Doubt when he dropped da classic single Dead Presidentz in which he sampled Nas voice from Illmatic. Every since then Nas had personal beef wit Jay and it grew from there. And I feel da Jig is making a crucial mistake in making a public rival wit Nas. Not that its hurting his sales but he's making Nas a very popular rapper. Even Jay-Z's fans are awaiting Stillmatic to hear his comback on Jig's diss on Da Takeover. Jay, you making my manz rich yo!

--Illivised.. Holla

Stephenson, Just what I thought. your a fool with lots of Racism feelings that you need to work out with a therapist. You have been brain washed with all that America is this great nation nonsense that you are obviuosly an idiot who talks out of their ass..Yes America does their share but as long as its in their National best interest, quid pro qou you fucknig yuppie!!! oh yeah for your 411 I am not in the States and nor do I want to be in it again until all you Pilgrims are out of their. whose the real Illegal Alien now you fucking cockroach...Hasta La Victoria Siempre-MG

Just wanted to re-post this comment made in a Nas Escobar Yahoo club: The link mention in the article is shown below: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1446481/20010809/story.jhtml

Here are some interesting excerpts from that MTV article: ================================================== "There's no need for rappers' mothers to put on the Kevlar just yet, but their MC sons are spewing a lot of venom at each other these days. Jadakiss has been beefing with Beanie Sigel. Sigel has made it clear he's not feeling DMX. DMX may have it in for Jay-Z; Nas definitely does. Nas is also going at it with Sigel, Cormega, Freeway and Memphis Bleek.

Jadakiss swears it's mostly hype. "Usually everything is to make money," he explained. "If you can make money off it, then it's beneficial."

"It's music," Jay-Z said last week, on the set of the video to "Izzo (H.O.V.A.)" (see "Jay-Z Gets Serious, 'Soulful,' On New Video And Album"). "It's rap music. Rap music was built on being competitive — MCs from back in the days battlin' and trying to be the best. But now you've got money involved, so you take that competitive fire and you add it along with money, and you got a lethal combination. But it's good for rap music."

Nas piles on the Jiggaman on his new dis record, a freestyle called "Stillmatic," on which he also spits fire at Cormega, Freeway, Memphis Bleek and Beanie Sigel.

"I rule you, before you used to rap like the Fu-Schnickens," Nas raps. "Nas designed your Blueprint; who you kiddin'? It's H-to-the- izzo, M-to-the-izzo ... the rapper version of Sisqó."

To Jay-Z, it's all about positioning to be at the top of the rap ladder.

"[Nas] is definitely gonna bring out the best of me; he's gonna put me at the top of my game," Jay said of his fellow lyrical giant. "It's like playing basketball with a guy. He's gonna put me on top of my game; I hope I do the same for him. I don't want to hurt the guy. It's just verbal sparring. No one is fighting. It's just records." " ================================================== If you look back in history, scenarios like these are pretty common. Even Henry Matisse and Pablo Picasso shared a competative dialogue throughout the 1920s-30s as each man tried to prove that he was #1 in the art world.

The funny thing is I remember seeing a Source mag cover with Jay-Z, DMX and Ja-Rule all posing in the same pic. They were calling themselves "Murder Inc." or something. Now DMX doesn't like Ja. Ja hates X. And Roc-a-fella, according to the MTV article, the Roc-a- fella camp doesn't like X either.

Honestly, I think Nas is a superior lyricist, more advanced and introspective than Jay-Z. But underneath all the tough talk about sending kids to their graves, these guys are all probably big softies. They all just want to sell a million copies and they know beef gets everyone's panties wet. Jay-Z just eeked his way out of that stabbing indictment. Now he's on probation for 3 years, so we KNOW he's not serious when he yells "murder."

If Nas is smart, and we know he is, he'll use this beef thing with him, Mega, Freestyle, Jigga, and whoever else to sell units like crazy and maybe launch a Stillmatic tour or something. Either way, I'll bet Nasir and Shawn will laugh about this whole thing over some beers at Nas's home 10 years from now.

KoolLou

"We had words, cause the best is supposed to clash at the top." -- Nas, "We Will Survive"

"This be the realest shit I ever wrote..."

Some of this will be real, some of it exaggerated. You be the judge.

First of all, "lox," I can tell you're about 16 by the way you phrase your arguments and the fact that you diss every region except NY. That's the same narrow-minded thinking I had when I was 16 saying fuck the whole East Coast, back when Pac was alive. But then I actually listened to the East Coast music for myself, and I realized my southern roots could co-exist with NY hip-hop. Biggie has went from shit to The Shit in my mind simply because I actually peeped Life After Death for myself. Maybe if you peeped, for example, UGK and realized there's more to a song than lyrics, you could appreciate the production, and Pimp and Bun's flows. But whatever. I gives a fuck what you think about the south, 2Pac, or anything for that matter. And that's real.

Second, JS? You over analyze shit. Me and my boy argue all the time about who's better - Pac or Jay. Obviously, he says Jay. We both know we'll never change each other's minds, but we argue anyway cuz we both like to argue. And I'm in here just enjoying posting messages. I don't know you. I don't know "lox", and you cats don't know me. I gives a fuck what you think of me, cuz you don't know me. I'll come in here and say what I want, just because I like arguing. And if someone in here disses the South, or says Pac ain't the best, I'm gonna say something, cuz I'm in here having fun. And I don't read Clarence Darrow or Daniel Webster because I really don't give a rat's ass about either of them. Hope that answers that question. If you think I "worship" Pac, that's your biz. If I'm supposedly juvenile in my responses, that's your biz. If you think I can never be an attorney, that's your biz. I'll still be me after everything you post. And I'm still gonna do what I gotta do to be lawyer, regardless of your opinion. And that's real.

Third, if you got a problem with anything I say/have said about the World Trade Center, then get over it. I'll say what I goddam please, national tragedy or not. I've heard many songs with references to slavery, the Holocaust, starving kids in Africa, etc. but no one gets pissed. It may be taboo now, but in a year, some rapper will mention the September 11 attacks in their rap in a way that might not seem appropriate right now. I'm just early with mine. Innovative, if you will. Truth is, I like NY rap and NYC. But fuck it, "lox" dissed the South, and the only thing I know for a fact about him is that he is from NY. So I gotta fuck with him. And what's the big thing in NY? The WTC. So fuck it, I'll let "lox" know that whatever his punk ass says about the Dirty South, unlike the World Trade Center, we're still standin. His punk ass better go find some anthrax to play with. Yeah, I said it. And that's real.

Fourth, if takin rhymes from Pac and reworkin them is something a 12 year old does, then that remark about Vaseline and 2Pac's poster (implying I have homoerotic thoughts about Pac) was what? 13 year old shit? You got me beat by one year? Damn, you got me. Really though, the gay references are a lot more played than recycling rap verses. And that's real.

Fifth, for that Rap Sucks cat, I got two words for him: ya mama. And that's real.

Finally, anybody got something to say to me, I'll be happy to respond because like Chris Tucker (impersonating Scarface) said in Money Talks "I do this shit for fun, man!" Since quoting rappers is lame, I'll quote a pro wrestler in The Rock: "Just Bring It." And that's real. Bitches.

And another thing "lox" bitch, Jordan could have been born in Brooklyn, the Bronx, Timbucktu, Mars, ya mama's house, wherever. He still came down south and that's where he cultivated his game.

Gay Jay sucks, DMX sucks and no one should cop his new album. Rap today is at an all time low. Most the shit that comes out is pop as hell. Its like the damn Backstreet boys started rappin. Ja is one of the worst rappers out every song he does has a bitch in it, he can't do shit on his own. I wanna see some hard rappers, instead of most of these pussies that act like they thugs but rap like queers. Its like when D12 said "most y'all sound like Jigga but act like Pac" Jigga's a fukin homo ass pussy. Yo I find myself downloading songs from the mid 90's when rap was really crackin. Some of those artists are still around but now they suck. Nowadays we got fags like cash $ actually doin good in this rap game, I mean how dumb are some of u fuckers that you'll spend money on niggaz that put no creativity or effort into anything. They're lyrics suck dick and I'm suprised but they actually spend time writnig them, I would never have thought that they actuall wrote until I heard them freestyle. Let me tell you that was the worse thing I've ever sat through in my life I was reachin for anything that would cut my fukin wrist. They're fukin illiterate sonsa bitches. I think we need to raise our standards as rap fans. If somethins wack as hell don't but it, if your favorite mc is comin out w/ some shit and u know its his 3rd album of the year and its gonna be garbage, don't fukin buy it. the rap game is hurt as hell right now and basically we're to blame cause we support niggaz that aint puttin any effort into shit. They shit on a cd and we buy it, meanwhile they think they actually did an ok job because their sales are still high so they continue to make half ass albums w/ little to no effort cause they think they're just as good as they used to be.We got mad pull over this, we need to open our damn eyes and realize that we got some fukin power. we should boycott some of these niggaz, most of these niggaz and raise the fukin bar. If we don't the game will continue to be pop as hell and we'll still be sittin back wakin it talkin bout if Gay Z's bitch ass is better than people like Pac who actually wrote and put mad effort into shit, or BIG or Mos Def or any real niggaz. Every rapper's gonna have a flaw or 2 but we can't let fags rule the idustry.

I haven't really seen too much on here lately that I really agree with or support. However, Karl has spoke the truth. I feel similar, but I believe he has taken it to the extreme. Nevertheless, I agree with the man's point. Rap is terrible right now. We got maybe a hand full of quality rappers today, but overall, rap is on it's last leg. Ja, and Nelly and cuz who raps about area codes... that's what we got y'all. Best believe my money doesn't go toward that. Even the people who were hot back in the day have slipped, but that's expected in a certain way; some say you can't be the best forever. Point is, if rap doesn't change soon then we are all gonna be forced to pump the oldies, like Karl said, or some will just go buy Black Rob's "Whoa" or Cash Money's "Hotgirl" and be content with that. Don't get me wrong, I have "Blueprint" and I like Eminem, but they aren't bringing me subjects I can relate to and it seems that many of their rhymes lack effort. It sounds good, but after a while, I see myself wanting to hear "Me Against the World," or something similar. I'm not saying all rap has to be deep or on the level of Pac, but show me some effort. Snoop's first CD wasn't all that deep and NWA's work, but I liked them, I could listen to that. But now...I don't know. I don't think a boycott is gonna work because a lotta peeps buying today's rap don't even know what rap used to be; they don't know what the are missing, but I feel your anger. I feel that all the way. I don't wanna hear the nonsense that Bleek spits or the 3 six crew, but that's what I see as today's norm. Qoolout P.S. Let's try to get this debate back to rap.

NONE of these rappers ever put food on my table.... so f*ck all of them.

I agree with Karl about most of his shit. But I really felt him about mid 90s rap. That was the peak of rap. I have so many CDs from 1993- 1996 and they are all tight. Now, rap is kind of watered down because for some reason, people don't feel thugs anymore. It's not OK to rap about blowin a nigga away over drugs while you run from the police and blast back. Why? I love gangsta rap! That's why the mid 90s was so tight. Everybody rapped about starving and drugs and murder. People say that's bullshit, but if you keep it on wax, it's cool with me. I ain't gon lie, I like Three 6 and Cash Money. Lyrically, they ain't all that, but I like their beats and production, cause I'm a "bass" head. That's another reason I like mid 90s rap. The production (in my opinion) was a lot more grimey. I love that shit. But unfortunately grimey doesn't sell, so people have to put out pop bull for grandmas to get some loot. I mean, if you do that, that's yo biz. Still, I long for the mid 90s rap. That 3-4 year period was just pure heaven for me. Oh well. I guess I'll just have to throw in an old Pac CD or Southernplayalistic or fuck it, I might throw on No Limit Soldiers just so I can jump around! I'm out. RIP mid 90s rap...

'whoa' is tight.

You can like "Whoa" all you want to. That's your right. I'm just saying that that is the type of music that gets the number 1 spot, because there are few good songs out there. I'm not feeling that song, for many reasons. 1. It hardly rhymes; the man is just talking, 2. What in the world is his point? And since I'm on the subject, what is the point of this other stuff out here? Izzo. It makes me nod my head, but can I get a few songs that makes me think? Even Destiny's Child "Say my Name" has a point. Holla

Yo, I'm new to this shit. I'd just like to say, No disrespect to you 2Pac or Biggie fans, they were great, but their dead and sooner or later, a more modern nigga would have surpassed their accomplishments and then they would have been the newest greatest emcee. So why can't it be Jay-Z? No one even Pac has been as concistant on every level. From owning your own record company, clothes line, toping the charts, holding hits down every summer, and even lyrical talent. That's all I had to say about that.

However, does anyone know if that shit about Jigga & Big Pun was true or not?

Somebody Holla Back!

yo on da real, owning a record label, clothing line and toppin da charts aint what makes u a good rapper. thats just what makes u more money. clothing lines and shit is whats commercialized da industry. and u can't just say someone woulda passed BIG and Pac up like its a fact. the only thing that coulda happened if they were still around is they woulda held the level high enough to wipe out all the bitch ass mcs or they woulda eventually played themselves and joined alot of da other niggas that fell off. and Gay z is not tight lyrically. i can't lie wen he first came out he was str8 but not no more, not 4 awhile and he is ok lyrically, thats it there are much much better lyricists out there than that fag. even on NAS's week cds he still kicks some descent lyrics, he just ain't sold as much as J cause he never went str8 pop till his last album which was so not him and so garbage, but he still a better lyricist and he isn't even great. on the real if u want lyrics cop em, royce da 5'9, mos def, canibus, and some of these other niggaz wen they was real. i like to bump some shit sometimes like the next guy, but i don't appreciate it as real quality rap, i just look at is as somethin to make my trunk rattle and damage my ears a lil bit. 3-6 is possible the worst lyrically, every song is almost exactly the same, but every song bumps like a motha fuker, so i play them every once in awhile, and thats cool but we can't let ourselves think that its any good 4 anything other than that.

Like Sterling, I've noticed that there are a lot of people who post here but don't post anywhere else on ILM. I encourage you to post on other threads too, there are thousands of them, and I'm sure some of you would have lots to say. Here are links to just a few related to hip hop (though there's no reason you should only write about hip hop; jump in on any topic you like).

Here's a link for one on NWA, here's one for Roll up leg of your pants, here's one for OutKast vs. Goodie Mob, here's one for Bounce/Cash Money, here's one for hip hop vs. rock, to get your blood boiling, and one for hip hop slang. There are lots more.

And here's the one for the I Love Music board in general, which you can also get to with a link at the start of this thread.

Ilove hip-hop, but don't tell me that is the only type of music you clowns listen to...How old are you kids anyway??...Hillis, you wanna be a lawyer but you still listen to that Thug shit, time to grow up a little man!!!...pick up some Jazz Cd's or Jamiroqui if you like beats...and if you do respond try not to curse, we'll put you on a program, cause you know you wont be able to curse in the courtroom, so try to practice, and stop giving us qoutes from rappers or wrestlers-thats even worse, but if that is how far your level of thinking has bought you, so be it...just another lost mind...-Manny Guevara....Hasta La Victoria Siempre

1st of all, why do peeps feel the need to post lines saying that "rappers never did anything for them," "or we seem to involved in rap" or "blah blah blah?" Okay. If you don't like rap or don't wanna read our opinions, then be out. People act like they are above us because we like rap and know many details about it. This is a subject that we want to discuss and this is the forum for it. Stop faking like you all are superior just because we know more about this art form than you do. And I'm talking to whoever feels that I'm talking to them. Secondly, Jigga can have all that other stuff, record company, clothing line, whatever... at the end of the day it doesn't make him a better rapper or a worse rapper...as far as rapping goes, those elements mean nothing. Furthermore, I don't know how well his clothing line is doing, but hardly NO ONE where's that bull over here in D.C. It's not really even in any stores and that's fine with us. Also, does he have his own record company? Dash and Biggs and some others- don't they call the shots too? I'm not trying to sound like a Jay hater, but he's not really impressing me with all that secondary stuff. And maybe someone else would have been able to pass Pac, but I doubt it because, no one has done it yet. Jigga is at the top, but look at the comp. Remember when the Rockets were NBA champs 2 years st8? Where was the comp? (No disrespect to y'all Houston fans) Qoolout

Hey Qoolut or whatever you call yourself, are you a panzy? Yousound like a bitch with all this is "our forum and our opinions, your like a little girl chatting about "Days of Our Rappers Lives". Congratulations that your from the D.C. area, were gonna put you on that program with that Hillis character, youll start on the Stupid Line and work your way up, o.k.??......Manny Guevara....Hasta La Victoria Siempre

First off, I gots to agree with my man qooloot about these people trying to act like they are superior to us because we know more about hip hop then they do. Hell, if we knew who every damn classical composer there was, we would be considered cultured geniuses. But just beacuse we know about this african-american based music called hip-hop, its considered "childish" and we need to "grow up." That is the very problem we have today in this dayand age. Anything created by blacks is considered inferior or of less importance than something created by whites. Like classical music, hiphop is a creation with deep cultural roots. And to diss hiphop is to diss the culture of a peoples who have been an intergral part of this world that we live in. I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't listen to other types of music, but still, don't diss the music of my peoples. Second, I must also agree that the period between 1988-1996 was when hiphop was in its purest form. Back before 1994, almost every artist that came out had some kind of social or political message. Until the advent of gangsta rap, hiphop took on a very analytical stand point. After gangsta rap came out hiphop went on a steady decline to become the bling-blining, Rolley flashin, money spendin crap it is today. Not to say that all of todays artists are crap (Check out Pharoh Monch, Talib Kweli, Common, Cormega, (pre '96) Nas, Outkast, etc..) Rap has seriously deteriorated from what it once was to what it is today. I think the main problem with rap is that before its success, rap was trying to change the world. But as soon as rap took over the world, it has stopped trying to change the world. My final point is that, I am a 24 year old black male in medical school studing to become a cardiovascular surgeon. All of you idiots who think everybody on this forum is just abunch of mindless, immature idiots with nothing better to do need to go do one thing......go fuck yourself. Peace out to all my all my fellow hiphop lovers.

Manny, the courtroom is just like being around my mother. I can stop cursing when I want to. I don't need the program, but thanks for your help. But I am grown-up. That's why I'll listen to "Thug shit" if I want to without worrying about what some bastard I've never before thinks about it. And there's a lot of grown men and women who will do the same. And that's real. Bitch.

Hey Bwrecks or 'studing' to be in medical school guy, you forgot the 'y' but I'm sure that was just a 'mistook', right??? No one is knocking your beloved Hip-Hop...God knows I like Hip-Hop, but really, is Nas gonna be a 40yr old rapper talking about shooting gats or are you gonna be 30 and still listening to that Gansta Non-sense...why dont you pick up a The Roots Cd or bump some Tribe, De La, get over the Menace to Society days, it was cool when we were 16 and smoking 8 blunts a day, but your gonna be a surgeon for crying out loud..I know you don't need me to tell you this, well then again, maybe you do...I hope you are not lying to us, about Medical school?? are you?? cause we'll be watching you....Hasta La Victoria Siempre...Manny Guevara..

LOL. You wanna diss me (Manny Granny, or whatever you call yourself) and the best you can come up with is "panzy"? I don't even wanna step down to your ignorant level, but I will cuz. First of all, you are saying nothing; not a thing. Do you disagree with a point I made? If so, say so. In your entire stupor, you just babbled about nonsense and your fictitious program (also nonsense). Say something that makes sense so I can debate it. You seem to lack the skills to speak your mind. Second, the truth hurts, right? You are not above anyone in the world dogg. Get away from the attitude that says "rap is nothing and I am above all hip-hop heads." Bwrecks already killed what you were saying and I couldn't put it better myself. And I didn't call your name out because I figured you could do a self analyzes and it would be your business and yours only. It's better to have peeps think that you are a fool, than to speak foolishness and remove all doubt. Thirdly, I meant what I said this is "our forum and our opinions." The problem is peeps like you come on our forum and get us off the topic with ignorance and hate. And I never said anything about "Days of Our Rappers Lives" I don't know where you got that. You lost me even more (if possible) with that line. Yeah I'm from D.C....I was making a point when I said it...what were you doing when you mentioned it? I tried to take the topic back to rap, but Manny wouldn't let me. And I don't wanna do anymore disses either, but if he forces my hand, I don't wanna hear that I was too vicious either. Manny you lack logic, holla when you get some. And go head and respond so you can prove my point futher. bwrecks, I feel ya, holla.

Qoolout

Hillis, Congratulations!! You can now got to step 2...Now, doesn't that feel good, well, you did say 'bitch', but that is in the dictionary so we'll let that one slide...What's with that: 'And That's Real', who are you Bryant Gumble?? You cockroach.....Hasta La Victoria Siempre..Manny Guevara

Well to get back to the original topic at hand, STILLMATIC will be dropping 12/18/01. I heard a few tracks already and it sounds like Nas is headed back to his infamous street poetic days of ILLMATIC. I garuntee all questions will be answered when Nas drops this lp. Jay Z "lets get ready to rumble......." 1

I agree with "The Best". Jigga got off on the Blueprint. And I hate J-Z. He caught Nas and Prodigy lovely. People were sayin Nas couldn't come back. But, If you peeped on Stillmatic the song. He said his next albums are going to be masterful. Here's the dynamics. Nas fans are on a quest to hear true hip hop and has faith in him to bring back illmatic. Hov fans are people who respect hip hop (sort of) but measure success on fame and records sold. Nas wanted some of the fame badly and compromised a couple of albums to do it. Only to realize that the sucess he had was residue off illmatic. It was written and I Am.... were quality albums, they just came after illmatic, which was CLASSIC! I didn't care for Nastradamus. But Nas Realized that he had to be who he was and commercial compromising work for other rappers but not him. He said in "Rise and Fall" Nas Escobar is laid to rest. Hopefully Nastradamus is too. Going back to Rakim's old beat gave him that old vibe that puts him back to his old self and I think it will level jigga's ego. Lyrically he don't want it with Nasty. He's STILLMATIC!!!!!!!!!

I'm feelin' your sentiment Second Sage! December 18 will be a big day in hip hop. Hey Hillis, I think you're alright dog. You seem to attract much drama and although I don't agree with some of the things you write, I respect your opinions and I'm down with the way you express them. This is a hip hop forum about the most dynamic and influential music of our generation. Let's keep it that way. All them other racists, haters and cynics can write what they want, but recognize that the majority of posts on this thread have been thoughtful, insightful and well written. All the dumb shit has been written by the aforementioned bigots and morons. As far as Jay Z goes, his flow and delivery have always been average. He's made a name for himself by mixing witty lyrics with dope beats with a pop sensibility. Ain't nothing wrong with that. He gained a larger audience (16 year old suburban high schoolers) than he lost (hip hop purists). Regardless, I still like him once in a while when I feel like bouncin'. Hip hop might be stagnant now, but at least it's diverse. For every Common and Mos Def out there spittin' knowledge and depth, there's Petey Pablo and Ludacris breakin' your neck. If my collection only contained shit that was deep ass or raw, I'd go outta my mind. A little mindless shit from Cash Money or Big Tymers is not bad once in a while. At the very least, it'll make you appreciate shit like "Illmatic" or "Paid in Full".

Manny, just because you're Hispanic doesn't mean you have to be like Scarface, you cockroach. Hillis 3000 AKA Bryant Gumbel 3000 signing off - and that's real. Bitch.

P.S. I wanna give a shout out to my man Dmac for being open-minded and having something thoughtful to say without having to diss a coast, rapper, style, etc.

I really really love Nas and I feel that he is not recognized like he should. He is the most prolific rapper. he does not want to go commercial because that not be fair to true Nas fans, he wants to keep it real. As far as the beef thing goes don't we have better things to worry about? (Sept 11) But when Dec 18 hits we will have to see who will be the last man standing.

yo i agree and support that nasty is a way better rapper than gay j but he's slipped up. Tiandra sayin that Nas has stayed true and has never tried to go commercial is garbage, check out his last lp w/ the frikin pop shit on there. i like nas he could kill alot of people lyrically especially j but he has gone commercial w/ his last album and that oochawally shit. i do hope and fell that he's back from that terrible turn down the pop alley and back to the realness.

Would I be less cooler if I spoke in proper English?? Which most of you seem to lack the knowledge of..So let me be down and kick it in words you might understand....Check it, Bryant Gumble (Hillis) your str8 up a fool, with an obsession of Dec 18th and Nas's joint dropping, why dont you pick up a book while you wait...Tiandra, how much do you really really love Nas Escobar?? What is he trying to be the Columbian drug lord like Pablo?? I'm not even going to respond to Qooluot until he learns how to spell....its Analysis. not Analyzes, you monkey...Hey keep it real, cause I know you maricones(half-wits), to be polite, are keeping it REAL STUPID!!!...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE....MANNY GUEVARA

Manny, if you keep posting messages here, the INS is gonna realize you're here without the proper visas. Hope you find your green card, you cockroach. And that's real. Bryant Gumbel 3000 signing off...

Hey Manny! For someone who professes to be an "expert" in the English language, I'd like to point out some rather elementary mistakes on your last posting. First of all "less cooler" is incorrect. It should be "less cool". Secondly, ending a sentence with a preposition is a big no-no, as you did when you wrote "...lack knowledge of..." Addtitionally, it is Gumbel, not "Gumble". Lastly, you forgot to include an apostrophe in the word "don't". I'm sure these are just minor oversights on your part. By the way, there is no doubt that you are entitled to write whatever you like on this thread. We welcome your ignorant and racist remarks, as they serve as a reminder why we have border patrol in this country. As a person with Hispanic blood in me, I must state that your are an embarrasment to Hispanics and Latin Americans that read these postings.

Manny, look man, whatever you tryin to start is not necessary. I can speak and type proper english but I'm not going to respect english like that. English is a bastardized language and has no pure form. Back centuries ago, english was as complex as spanish and french with variations of verbs and nouns. But the common people of that time made it simple. We speak this language how we want to. Who knows, it might be standard eventually. English is not the original language of my people, while you're at it. English was forced on my ancestors who spoke in rhythmic pattern. The language of our ancestors flows. We also used to communicate by drums, and all that was taken from us by force. But, we've found many ways to make this languge fit. Over centuries we've found ways to sing it. Now comes the new way, Rappin it. Hip hop is a way to bring the rhythmic pattern back to English. It's also bringing back the drums. The true essence of hip hop is not the lyrics but how the lyrics flow together and go along with the beat. Maybe that's what scares all you hip hop haters!!! The culture is coming back!!!!!!!!! That's why hip hop was under attack long b4 it beame gangsta. But anyway, to compare and contrast. Nas, at his fullest potential, is a master lyricist. As long as his production fits him, he is unmatched. Give Jigga credit for **knowing** how to lay down tracks. Not to many show that ability. This compensates for his average lyrics. But, even Jigga can sneak some tight lines every now and then. I still don't like where he stands. But back to you manny. We speak however we want on this post. It doesn't have to be "proper" in order for everyone on here to understand what is said- which is the overall goal. If "intellects" can't keep up then they need to learn how WE speak. Oh yeah, I have a degree in Civil Engineering and have passed an 8-hour exam to complete stage 1 of 2 to being a professional engineer. So study hip-hop for what it is, an art!!! Regardless of the government/industry perpetrated Gangstaism in place to destroy it.

HIP HOP NATION FOREVER!!!!!!!

Manny, I was wondering something about you. In your "English as a Second Language class," why did they give you an insane pride in spelling, but leave you with a complete lack of grammatical skills? For example, you can only use one or three question marks (not two). And then there's "Bryant Gumble (Hillis) your str8 up a fool." Not only is the sentence grossly ambiguous, it's "you're!" It's not "your." Of course, this is followed by "What is he trying to be the Columbian drug lord like Pablo??" Here, we see the notorious doubled question marks. The sentence also has no grammatical base. The last straw is the failure to separate "maricones" and "half wits". It should be "...maricones (half-wits)..." Work on it, amigo. I'm sure you'll be speaking understandable English in no time. You cockroach. And that's real. Bryant Gumbel 3000 signing off...

Hey. I'm interested to hear what ya'll really think of 'Dre as an MC. Obviously he's on point when it comes to producing and harnessing new talent, but I've always thought he was a bit underrated as a lyricist and rapper. Then again, my tastes have always gravitated to the melodic, straight foward west coast flow, as opposed to the more intricate and creative, though sometimes more offbeat, east coast style. By the way, I don't mean offbeat in a negative way either.

Once again Manny you are saying nothing. Everyone has already pointed out your ignorance and they have left me with almost nothing to criticize. Also, I try not to criticize fools, but since you brought it to me…here goes: 1st of all, I ordered you to respond and prove you lack knowledge. You did both. Then you say you won't address Qoolout until he learns how to spell. Okay, YOU misspelled Qoolout and by saying you won't respond, YOU RESPONDED. Cuz, get some sense. You are making it too easy; you're embarrassing yourself. Do you care? Just go ahead and bow out now; have some self-respect. And you still are faking like you are a God. I told you before, you are above no one. And Dmac, don't feel embarrassed. Every race has a few ignorant peeps. It just so happens that Manny seems to be an example of the extreme. Back to you, Manny. When you post again, before you post, sit down and try to come up with a point. Try to say something that (God forbid) makes sense and let us get back to the topic of rap. We can even discuss rap haters…Would that make you behave? My bet is you'll ignore all the advice you've been given and you'll just post some more nonsense, thus proving my point further. You know you want to, so go ahead and do it. Leap frog. LEAP

Qoolout

not trying to sound totally ignorant, but what does "HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE" mean? didn't have the energy to look it up.

who are you Bryant Gumble??

That's fantastic. I love you guys.

YO AM BACK UP IN THIS BITCH.AND AND IVE SEEN SOME STUPID ASS SHIT SINCE I LEFT.ANYWAY I DONT WANNA DO THAT FIGHTING SHIT I DID WITH HILLIS ALONG TIME AGO THATS GAY.IF YOU LOVE THAT DIRTY SOUTH MUSIC I AINT GONNA HOLD IT AGAINST YOU.BUT PLEASE DONT TALK ABOUT THE EAST COAST CUZ THERE ACTUALLY RUNNING IT.ANYWAY THIS AINT A SPELLING BEE SO WE DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT WERE WRITING IN THIS JOINT.AND ACTUALLY AM NOT 16 I JUST DONT LIKE THE SOUTHS STYLE.LETS JUST SAY AM LEGAL.I WANT TO POINT ONE THING OUT NAS,PRODIGY,THE LOX,FAT JOE,JAYO FELONY AND THE REST OF THEM ARE GONNA BRING DOWN GAY-Z OR H TO THE IZZO M TO THE IZZO(HOMO)AND HIS LITTLE ROCAFELLA EMPIRE DOWN.AND NAS WILL BE CROWNED THE KING OF HIP HOP ON DEC 18 WITH JADAKISS COMING IN SECOND.DONT FRONT I KNOW YALL LIKE MY BOY JADAKISS STRAIGHT OUTTA THE LOX.CUZ NONE OF YALL BETTA.ONE.

First of all, LOX, we know it's not a spelling bee, but cuz opened the door, so we had to call him on that. And second, you are 100% right. I'm feeling Jada more than any of them other so called rappers. Did y'all hear the remix he did for Mary? "We can hit the dance floor now, you ain't gotta wait/ We can take this outside, you ain't gotta hate/...And we don't need no hateration/ Somebody better calm dude down, cause the eight'll lace him. LOL. I'm not feeling the entire song, but come on Jada is bringing it. Ask Beans. Qoolout

yo I understand that this ain't a spelling bee and u were callin' this nigga out but lets drop the grammar and spelling lessons I hear enough in school anyway. I'm a spelling bee winner like 3 years in a row but when I come here its entertainment not a research paper, lets just have fun and not worry about that, this is about rap and we all know rap ain't grammatically correct. Also Gay-z is done and alot of niggaz is better, even Jada is better but personally I don't feel kiss and thats just my steelo. I think he sounds to soft on the mic I always hated the damn LOX so I have to hate on Jada do, he doin his thing but I don't give him much props, he ain't all that lyrically just allright which is fine if you back it up with a dope voice or delivery but he doesn't he's week. Theres still a lot a niggaz better even in the state raps in now. I ain't startin beef or tryin to piss peeps off thats just my opinion and I think I'm entitled to it if I have some evidence to back it up so anyone wants to respond go for it but do it in a way that is informative and proves a point and not dissin a personal belief just because it differs from others. I think that this page would be a lot better if peeps did that. Its about respect. Put the racism and ignorance to rest and get your point across with out insult then it might actually be accepted or taken to heart instead of str8 up rejected cause of a diss. I ain't tryin to be Mr. Rogers or nuttin but lets just discuss and debate and not worry about petty shit. God Bless.

It's dropped as far as I'm concerned. But I just wanna say I didn't make it into a grammar lesson, if your statement was meant for me, Karl. But on that note I've been trying to get the discussion back to rap and maybe we can do that now. Also, I would never just diss a person because he/she had a different opinion. Scroll up and you'll see that. I've been disagreeing with peeps on here left and right for the longest, and that's all it was, no beef, none of that nonsense. Anyway, I understand you not liking Jada, but tell me who it is you are feeling. I haven't been able to get in contact with a soul who has that first L.O.X. Badboy cd so I can't speak on that, but he brought it on every double RR guest spot and on Vol. 1 and 2. And you know I'm feelin' "We are the Streets." Honestly, I expected his solo thing to be better than it was, but he still flowed better than Jay, in my opinion of course. I know there are many Jigga fans who disagree but I say Jada's Flow was better overall, but Jay had the better beats and hooks maybe, thus that is one reason why some are feeling Hov over my man, but to each his own. Lastly, I like how Jigga didn't have a lot of others on his CD, I think Jada should have done that and more of the other "quality" rappers too. All those weak peeps on your CD makes the stock go down. I'll leave with a quote from Kiss: Chicks that I went to school with, a seed now/You know Kiss, stocky bald head, light brown/ Ice down, in my roll look like nighttown/ To all y'all lil' Jada's for the 1000th time/ I don't recall hittin' your moms or writin' your rhymes/ And just because you might've seen me, in and outta your house/ Ain't no way she gonna have a baby outta her mouth. LOL. HE BE FLOWIN' Qoolout

ok, i guess no one took me seriously. really, what does "HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE" mean?

JAY Z IS THE MOTHAFUKKIN MAN NEXT TO BIG. I MEAN NAZ AINT TOUCHIN HIM FOR REAL. JADA HE'S AIIGHT YEAH HE'S GOT SKILL BUT JAY-Z's THAT DEAL AND ALL THE OTHER WACK ASS FAGGOTS JUST WANT HIS CHROMY WHEELS. LEAVE MY MAN ALONE LET HIM DO HIS THING. HATERS COME A DOME A DOZEN. THE WORLD GONE STILL DO A 360 WHETHER YOU FUKK WIT HIM OR NOT.

I don't like gay-z but that don't mean I'm hating it means I think he's garbage I don't want his damn rims or $ he plays that shit out talkin about it so damn much. I got rims and a system I don't need gay-z's bitch ass $. I dislike that queer cause he has a lot more potential than he puts out, he's fake as hell. that bitch made nigga could get slapped up by the real mcs out there. O and another thing. I was so pissed that slim did a song on blueprint "renegade". Slim is slippin big time by messin w/ pop ass fake rappers like j he needs to stick to the royce the 5'9's and d12's and dre's out there. he was the realest but if he doesn't watch it he will play himself.What does anyone else think about this situation?

Yo Karl. Em did dat shit wit Gay-Z on "Renegades" to prove exactly what you were talkin' 'bout, dog. Gay-Z is garbage in terms of lyrical flow and timing, especially when paired up wit someone wit razor sharp skillz like Em. Slim straight up scorched dat track, effortlessly, while Jigga stumbled through with his trademark weak- ass, crackling, Sesame Street voice. But you know what, I really don't hate Gay-Z, for real. I think his rapping talent and contribution to hip hop is overrated, but he's got skilz on the business side of the game and puts out some gay happy shit that at makes folks bounce.

cool I could respect that and pretty much agree. Em did blaze that frikin track. and I think thats the main reason i dislike gay j because he's so damn overrated and doesn't deserve his props.

hey qoolout or any other jadakiss fans! what album would you recommend to someone who hasn't really been into kiss in the past? would it be something from the lox or his solo joint? i think his track off of funkmaster flex's 60 minutes is hot.

Hey maz, if U wanna hear his best work, listen to the L.O.X CD, "We are the Streets." He's coming hard on there, but like I said before, RR Vol. 1 and 2 are nice too. But I think his best showcase has been on "We are the Streets." I expected more from his solo thing, but I was still happy with it; speaking of that, see if you can listen to "Kiss is Spittin" or "Feel Me" from his solo joint. If you are mainly into beats and tight hooks, I admit that Jada probably ain't the one for you, (Swizz only did two tracks, I think)but if you wanna hear some well written lyrics or just some witty funny stuff, he's the man. Holla, and let me know what U think. P.S. His diss towards Beanie was hot too.

Yo thanks qoolout! I'm definitely gonna check out "We Are The Streets". For everyone else, what's hot right now? I picked up DMX's latest joint and feel the first half of the album is straight. The second half is pretty disappointing, especially the shit with Stephanie Mills and Faith Evans. Nothing against the sisters, but as most of you know, that R&B chick shit is played out, especially for someone like DMX. So I'm wonderin' what y'all got in your cd players, stereos, etc? I've been listening to Nas' "I Am" a lot lately and if you cut out about 5 or 6 weak ass tracks, that album would be pretty fuckin' tight. It's just a few filler garbage tracks like KISSING and Dr. Knockboot that bring it down a few notches.

Lot of stuff to respond to.

A) Dre as an MC is horrible. I realized this when on "Nuthin But A G Thang" this fool had the nerve to say, "never slip, cuz if I slip, then I'm slippin." Boo! Then further proof is that Jay and Em ghost write for him. Dre's flow is so weak. He may have started this rap shit, but he sucks on the mic.

B) As of now can't nobody from the East Coast with Jay. Jada, DMX, Nas, none of them. However, Eminem laced Renegade up 10 times better than Jay, and Jay's verse so tight. But Em took better lyrics and even better flow and just served Jay on Jay's on album. So while people wonderin who the King of NY/East Coast is, they're forgetting that shit don't matter cuz Eminem is better than all those cats and anybody who can eat up Jay is #1 in my book.

C) How many times is Nas gonna drop an album and all you people who fiend for Illmatic gonna keep saying he's gonna be back on top again? Look, Illmatic was tight. It Was Written had some quality tracks. I Am was a tad pop, and Nastradamus was just straight boo-boo. I mean, Nastradamus was the epitome of a tight rapper fallen of. That shit was so garbo. So now all of a sudden Nas will regain his stature. It's possible, but I say don't bet on it.

D) I ain't tryin to hate, but why do people expect shit from Jadakiss? That nigga ain't all that. That's why Jay-Z's remix ate Jada's up. That nigga's waek. Beanie Sigel's flow and delivery is so much better than Jada's it's not funny. Jadakiss and the rest of the Lox need to retire. Everything out the Lox camp is straight counterfeit. They need to get they own style and stop trying to be Biggie Jrs.

E) See, lox. You say you don't want to argue with me, but then you try to slip in little remarks about NY runnin it. Do you not understand that Jay and Ja Rule are the only NY cats that could go platinum? The rest of the NY rappers are lucky to go gold. The South, however, is the place to be for platinum plaques. Where else can a fat white boy named Bubba with average skills go platinum? Down South, baby, because with our production skills, we turn anybody into a phenomenon. Anybody. Realize who really run it, "dunny."

F) Where's Manuel Guervera? "Hasta la Victoria siempre" literally means "Until the Victory always..." Now idiomatically, I'm at a loss. But just like his shit English, it makes no sense.

I'm out.

Hillis, i appreciate it. manny's disappeared, so i guess he's given up on his victory. now 3000, i totally agree with most of what you said. matter of fact just about everything you said. i don't make so much of a deal about goin platinum, but if you're in it for the fame-much of the south is using the correct formula. Jay is using the correct formula. Nas, i don't know what the hell he's been doin. true, he said he'd bring back "Nasty Nas" this time. but he's said that before. as i said earlier, won't believe it til i hear it. a couple of singles won't do. worst thing in the world is unrealized talent! the talent is definately there but.... lastly, i love and miss Pac, and i'm hesitant to say this to many of his fans, but we've got to move on. to say there will never be another, is like saying there will never be another Jordan. there won't be!! but there will be iverson's, vince carter's, tracy mcgrady's, and more hungry, talented cats who will leave there own mark. hip hop is not hardly gonna die with Pac and Big. and to be honest, jay is actin like shaq in this hip hop league. love him or hate him, he's MVP right now.

I feel you for the most part Hillis concerning your last post, but I gotta respectfully disagree with a few points. 1st of all, I'm sure more from the east have hit plat, besides Ja and Jay and I think Tim helped Bubba. But anyway, I don't think we can put much credit into sales anymore. We got downloading, bootlegging, etc; that will make 1 mill harder to reach. On the other hand Nelly sold a couple mill and he is hardly the best in my book, so sales mean close to nothing, if you ask me. Next, I guess we all know I'ma rep it for Jada. He is no Pac, but who is? I'm feeling him more than any other right now; and I never really felt Beans. I know some people listen to music for the beats, others for tight lyrics, and so on. Me, I like to hear stuff that makes you think, therefore I'm feeling Jada (Nas, & Em sometimes), sure he has a few party songs, but I don't think you'll catch him flowing about nonsense. He's deep at times, and when he's not deep, he's giving you wit and/or humor. Now those who listen for the tightest beats, may have to put in some Dre, because he ain't got the best flow, but he brings the beats/hooks. And to Maz, I agree that "I am" is a hot CD if you delete a few cuts. Lastly, I gotta say, yes Jay is at the top, but there isn't much to compete against right now. Time will tell if he can hold that spot. I doubt it, but time will tell. Another Jada quote, enjoy, LOL: For every check I deposit, it's just a new burner in the closet/And the big one'll kill you, ya brother and ya pops quick/Might take one slug to get y'all both/ Cuz muthafuc--, I'ma make sure I hit y'all close/And whoever's left guarenteed he gettin it all/Cuz he coulda ran when I was lickin' at y'all/I get rap money, plus I'm in the hood wit dimes/And I ain't got no felonies, I'm good wit crimes/ Not all dat wit macs, but I'm good wit nines/Great wit eights/ Dogg, I'll heat ya face/And I got a hungry lawyer that'll eat the case... Qoolout

Whats up Cheerleaders (Coolout with a Q, Bryant G, and the other monkey Don Was) I have been busy with work and Graduate study that I did not have a chance to retort, but I also want to be concise...Bryant G, as for your Green Card comment, being born and raised in Queens, NY qualifies me enough, but as stupid as most Americans are you would think of that...Qoolout, if your in school taking your Gen-Ed Req's. trying to major in Bus.AD. or Psych finish up your Tupac 101 class first before you ever want to debate with me...Don Was are you another African wannabe?? Most of you call yourselves Africans but you have never even been their...I worked in Mozambique for two years with the UNDP and have more knowledge of your cultural roots and that is sad!..When you children get older send me your C.V.'s, that's Curriculum Vitae for you idiots and if you really don't understand that it's called your resume.Don't put worked at KFC for 10 years and enjoy listening to Nas and DMX because they are real either..Well some of us have a Thesis to finish...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE...MANNY GUEVARA

Manny! Ese! I thought you bounced on us! So what's the graduate study in? How to sell strawberries on the side of the road more efficiently? How to safely cross the Rio Grande? Speedy Gonzalez vs. Cheech: Who's more like Tony Montana? Mariachi bands and taco cuisines - "la musica y la cena?" Good luck, you cockroach. And thanks for helping me with my C.V. I'll put I listened to Master P instead. And that's real. Bryant Gumbel 3000 signing off...

VIVA EL HIP HOP SIEMPRE!!!

Hey, manny you forgot someone. You didn't respond to me. So what you been in Africa two years, you're probably part of the problem over there. Hiding your Racist commentry behind your education. All western education is, training you to think like the powers that be. No wonder you discredit hip hop, Hip Hop is out to break the status quo. Which means everything you value will not have as much weight. See, I read between the lines. I'll expose you. You won't respond to me because I break you're little myth of Hip Hoppers having nothing else. I have a degree just like you, b*tch!!! But I don't profile my education like that. All it's good for is showing the powers that be you've been trained to be obedient. You lap dog!!!!!! I've seen how educated fools are made. Hip Hop can stand on its own. We don't need to listen to anything else. We don't need your approval to be "cultured". Who's culture anyway??? Hip Hop is OUR culture. Assimilate or be out!!!

And Secondly, to who this may concern. True hip hoppers do not use record sales as a measuring stick. You can get away with beats, some of the time. You can get away with lyrics, most of the time. But never, I mean ever, say someone is great based on record sales. I have to tell you the truth, I wasn't really a Pac fan. I liked his very first album. And I liked his second to last. He would still be here but he let bishop get him killed. But I do think Pac and Big would have gotten the game straight if they were still here.

And Lastly, Nas has shown steps that he is trying to bring Nasty Nas back. He had the potential to be the Michael Jordan of Rap. Pac Wasn't!! Nas can just rebound and show you he one of the greatest. Over time you'll see He'll outshine Jay-Z. Emenem is Nice. I can't fromt. He will be the Elvis of hip hop!!!!

hey y'all obviously ain't post in a while. So I am gonna get y'all up to speed. Jay's answer I know u mr. Nas the (fame)/but along with celebrity comes bout seventy shots to your frame/ nigga u's the (flame)/ you's the fag model for karl kani esco ads/went from Nasty Nas to Esco trash/had A spark when u started but now u just garbage/fell from top ten to not mentioned at all/ till ur bodyguards "Oochie Wallie verse is better than yours/ Matter fact you had the worst flow in the whole fuckin song/But I know the sun don't shine/if the son don't shine/That's why your (lame)/Career's come to an end/It only so long fake thugs can pretend/Nigga, You ain't live it/U witnessed it from your folks pad/Scribbled it in your notepad/ and created your life/I showed you your first tec/ On tour with Large Professor/then I heard your album about your tec/ on the dresser/So yeah I sampled your voice/You was using it wrong/You made it a hot line/I made itt a hot song/And you ain't get a coin nigga/You was getting fucked then/I know who I paid god/Serchlite publishing/Use your (brain)/You said "been in it 10"/I been in it 5/Smarten up Nas/4 albums in ten years/I can divide/ that's one let's say every 2/2 of them shit's were doo/One was ehhhhh/the other was Illmatic/That's a 1 hot album every 10 year average/And that's so (lame)/Nigga switch up your flow/your shit is garbage/what u trying to kick knowledge/Y'all niggas better learn to respect the king/Don't be the nest contestant on that Summer Jam screen.

respect the king

YO WHAT UP YALL.I JUST WANNA SAY THAT ALBUM SALES DONT DETERMINE IF YOUR THE GREATEST RAPPER OF ALL TIME CUZ JA-RULE AND NELLY WOULD BE THE BEST IF ALBUM SALES DETERMINED EVERYTHING.NELLY HIS SORRY ASS ALWAYS MAKING STRANGE ASS NOISES WHEN HE IS RAPPING LIKE IF HE IS GETTING RAPED,AND JA-RULE JUST TURNED R&B BECAUSE I LOVED HIS FIRST ALBUM BUT WHAN THAT 3:36 CAME OUT HIS ASS JUST SINGS NOW.AS FOR JADAKISS ALL I CAN SAY IS THE MAN IS NICE. MAYBE THERE TRYING TO BE BIGGIE JUNIORS BECAUSE THEY WERE WITH BIGGIE WHEN HE WAS AT HIS PRIME. AND BIG WAS THERE MENTOR.BUT ANYWAY I DONT KNOW WHY SOME OF YALL DONT FEEL HIM.I LIVE IN MIAMI WERE ITS USUALLY TRICK DADDY THERE LISTENING TO. BUT NOW PEOPLE ARE FEELING JADA THERE OPENING UP THERE EYES THAT THERE IS REAL HIP-HOP OUTSIDE THE SOUTH. AND ANOTHER THING YALL DONT GET IN A RAP DISSCUSSION WITH GIRLS CUZ THAT WILL PISS YOU OFF.ONE.

Manny, there u go again, spitin' nonsense. Dogg, you gonna have to say something that makes some type of sense if you want me to take you seriously. You know you like rap, otherwise you wouldn't be on here posting. Come on outta the closet. Is it you lack the skills to speak about the deep aspects of rap, or is it you just enjoy taking nonsense? You claim you are in school....Do you have a point? Manny, you still gotta convince me. Now do me a favor...post some more foolishness...I wanna see if you can out do the last piece of garbage you put on here. So once again, I order you to leap. LEAP Qoolout

YO QOOLOUT YEAH IHEARD THE REMIX WITH MARY J ITS HOT I GOT IT ON MY FUNKMASTTER FLEX BIG TRUCK SERIES PART1

manny? not hardly worth it

Second Sage, Here you go. You wanted to getin the mix and you have said nothing. You can join your cheerleader friends with all that "its our culture,our culture non-sense".keep it...As far as profiling my education, I said I grew up in Queens, all my degrees are from Universities in France, but you probably think that the best education only comes from your "great nation" the U.S...why dont you try learning a new language or travel a little bit, have a purpose in your life!! Make a difference!!-A Lifewithout a Cause, is a life without Effect...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE....MANNY GUEVARA......oh yeah I forgot to mention the other monkeys but Im on the other side of the world, so I have some time, before you get up and listen to NAs's CD for the 885th time....

Manny! I learned a new language. Listen: "Yo soy gato loco mio tuo espanol si vosotros ustedes. Me llamo computadora y el sabado es il buena suerte. Yo tambien nosotros hablara con russas y montanas. Mi amigo ser ir al cinema y cosas noches son la playa y par la plage. Hasta la victoria siempre!!!" That's for my boy, Manny. Bryant Gumbel know a lil sumthin, sumthin. My nickname at school is "El Nino." And for those of you who "no habla espanol," El Nino is Spanish for... THE NINO! And that's real. Bryant Gumbel 3000 signing off...

HAHAHAHA Gayz shit is fuckin garbage for real. i liked him before he started getting really cocky. his crew is bullshit, i dont think anyone here (sane anyways) could possibly imagine gayz,beanie bitch, and memphis ass cheek, chould ever win a battle against nas, jadakiss and prodigy. thats what i thought see. and probably the only reason why the dirty south is sellin is because they have nice beats and a catchable choras. gayz is going triple platinum and shit only because white boys trying to be cool dig him, ever since big pimpin id say. he dun got in some shit he cant dig himself out of. Nas,MOBB DEEP, LOX, Terra Squad, and the whole fuckin QB is gonna light his ass up. he only has beanie and memphis to back him up, i think DMX lost alot of respect for him going pop and all and Ja rule is ok but hes doing joints with j-lo then screaming the murder in the very next song, singing about cheating on his girl then turning around and singing i only think about you. and did any of you see gayz on BET lying his ass off about the whole beef shit? man its pathetic hes trying to make ppl not dig nas or p by saying they all just started attacking him lyricly and shit what a fucking pansy. got asked about the takeover song by free and responded "yeah um i was realeasing my emotions on that one song, i hope we can now respect eachother now" bullshit still trying to play as the nice guy. and BIGGIE is the king of newyork, now and forever but greatest alive in ny is Nas, you cant deny it. jayz hides behind good beats so people wont notice his wack ass rhymes, sorry gayz but timbaland's beats aint gonna get you outta this one.

I got a few things to say first JADA, JIGGA, and NAS have good qualities as MC's. But JADA dosn't change the style of his lyrics, by that I mean he takes a Timbo beat like "Nasty Girl" on his album and raps the same way he raps on "Kiss is Spitten" two totally different beats. And he follows the same bar rythem in each song.That is not nessesarly bad thing but the songs would be better if he followed the beat. Plus It is a quality that B.I.G and pac both had and they are the two best MC's of all time. Jigga did a good thing by going back to his roots with the "Blueprint." Big JAZ was the main factor behind his rythmical style on "Reasonable Doubt" and the goodfella's, godfather type style of gangster lyrics worked. The "Blueprint" had the slow soulful beats but the "Reasonable Doubt" type lyrics were not there. He needs to go back to the style that gave him popularity. Nas had my respect with "Illmatic" his usage of soulful old school beats and poetic form is what attrated so many people. But that was 1994 and the younger generation dosn't take notice to that style. Jay-z has a similar style but he change with the times. Nas is trying to do the same thing and it did not work with his last two albums.I think he can regain popularity by using his old style. There are some like myself that likes that type of style he uses, and me being 16 not every kid is looking for a crunked beat to party to.

Yeah, I saw Jay on BET talking about these people are coming at him because he's on top. He was asked about the greastest rapper in his opinion. He said "If not me then who?" LOL whatever. So the host said "Well, besides you, who?" And he went with the bell out answer: B.I.G. Of course I say Pac, but we've been down that road. Did anyone see the new deathrow movie, "Welcome to Deathrow"? It's a new release at BlockBuster. It's tight; it tells how the east west beef started, how deathrow got started, it shows Snoop at an award's show faking, and Suge was calling out Bad Boy while he was on stage. It also talks about how all of these people are supposed to be scared of SK. Hip-Hop fans should try to see it. Hey LOX, did you hear that Fiesta remix with R. Kelly and Jada? My man says, I don't pimp, I just keep my hoes in order/and I keep my neck filled with frozen water/ we usaually in jeans, but it's linen tonight/ we spendin' tonight/ and everybody spendin the night. Ha ha. Hillis, you gotta translate that one for us. Don, why didn't I think of that? LOL

FUCK SUGE KNIGHT. Hes the reason why both BIG and PAC are dead. the bastard admited when the drive by was happening pac tryed to jump in the back seat but suge pulled him down. the bitch ass also said that even if he knew who did it he wouldnt tell, punk ass motherfuckin bitch!!! i couldnt believe that shit. Tupac was leaving DR to start his own label called makaveli records or somethin like that and he couldnt stand to see his number one man to leave cause without him DR wouldnt be shit(which its not now) PAC used to be my favorite rapper of all time but i think he ran his mouth a bit too much and i liked how biggie hardly gave in to it and ignored it. BIG could also switch styles from fast to slow like on notorius thugs and i hope you niggaz sleep. but they are the two greatest and will never be topped. its a shame that rap has came down to rappers on everyone talkin about cars, money, and ice, big did that but not on every single song like cashmoney be doin.

I have a question: It may seem odd to you, but I don't get it.. Why would anyone brag about sellin' crack? I mean, what's the point? I'm supposed to think you're cool because you sold drugs to your own people? And then, to add insult to injury, I'm supposed to go out and BUY your CD so I could pay to hear you say that garbage? I know rappers nowadays are fond of talking shit, (for lack of a better word), but could one of you Jay-Z/Nas/LOX fans help me understand why these people are going platinum?

Yo Enigma. They go platinum because of the music, not necessarily because of the lyrics. Delivery and production go a long way in rap, and quite frankly, if the production or delivery of a song is lacking, no one will buy it. However, lyrics aren't necessary to sell in rap. And that goes for any type of music. For example, @Pac could talk about crack babies mommas, then talk about killin Bad Boy, then move on to his mother, then back to Bad Boy, then tell a story about him and his gun, then lament the state of Black America, and then kill Bad Boy again. All of the time, he would sound tight because his lyrics, flow, production, etc. all SOUNDED GOOD! What makes Creed, Luther Vandross, Marvin Gaye, Jay-Z, Travis Tritt, Faith Hill, Red Hot Chili Peppers, NYSYNC, Matchbox 20, and Chrisina Aguilera sell? For the most part, they sound good. If Luther sang about slangin crack, it would still sound good. You might be like: "Yeah, right, Luther. Stick to romance." But it would still sound good. And Jay- Z/Nas/Jadakiss/MC Get Busy/MC Such n Such, etc. sound good to at least a million people, regardless of what they say.

Hey Hillis, you posted something on Nov. 2. You gotta break it down for us. What does it translate to in english? Hollywood, I feel what you say about Jada not switching up his flow, but that's his style. I like him mainly because of his content, but that won't appeal to everyone. He doesn't really need to change up the tempo, but I will admit that when B.I.G. did it with Bone it was one of his best verses. LOX, I haven't debated with too many females about rap, but the ones that I have... YES, they all got me frustrated. Oh yeah, when I mentioned that deathrow movie, I meant to also mention that it tells how Dre and his crew were trying to go somewhere other than Ruthless records, but no one would take them, so every time Dre made a track dissin' Easy-E, Easy was getting paid. I didn't know that, but according to the movie, Easy (before his death) made money off of every Chronic CD sold. Lastly, Enigma, you are supposed to buy the CD because it's entertainment. It's music. It's like when we pay to see a movie where the hero kills like 500 of his own people. It's just to entertain. Nine times outta ten, it's all false anyway. P.S. I just heard soemthing new by Nas. It may be called, "Check Yourself" but I'm not sure. But I am sure it's hot. It's a deep flow and it makes you think, so of course I like it.

"Yo soy gato loco mio tuo espanol si vosotros ustedes. Me llamo computadora y el sabado es il buena suerte. Yo tambien nosotros hablara con russas y montanas. Mi amigo ser ir al cinema y cosas noches son la playa y par la plage. Hasta la victoria siempre!!!"

I am cat crazy my your Spanish if you (plural) you (formal). I call myself computer and the Saturdays is the good luck. I also we will talk with russians and mountains. My male friend to be to go to the movies and things nights are the beach by the beach(plage is actually French). Until the victory always!!!"

I listen to hip hop because I am intrigued by the lyrics and find the beasts to be pretty cool. But what disappoints me is how poorly our black people misuse their fame and status. Yeah, yeah, yeah I know it's not their job to be role models and all that shit. But, c'mon. All these rappers do is bitch about the system, bitch about their environments and bitch about the lack of opportunities for their race. In the meantime, they flaunt an unrealistic lifestyle and emphasize overindulgence and materialism to a listening audience that, generally speaking, can't attain it. As a result, you have a community of black folks (like the one in which I live)that drive around in Escalades, wearing FUBU and Timbs, but can't support their 6 kids from 6 different women, while living in their Auntie's house. But damn, their freakin' SUV is spotless and hooked up with a dope sound system and twenties. I don't deny the power of the hip hop culture and it's influence on society. As a young black man and high school teacher, I know that the music is entertainment for many of who can separate fact from fiction. Unfortunately, A LOT of black (and white) youth cannot make that distinction and are led to believe that their only means to wealth and material success are to dunk a ball, sell rocks or spit rhymes. Cats like Common, Mos Def and Talib Kweli might not be the most aesthetically pleasing to the ears, but they deserve props for making an attempt to use the hip-hop vehicle in a positive manner. I don't mean to bash our race, but sometimes I feel helpless trying to turn these kids on to education, when all they want to do is shoot hoops, fight or listen to music. Honestly, they have the same opportunity as a white kid from the suburbs to go to college and establish a professional career. They might have to work outside of school and apply for grants and scholarships, but the opportunity is there nonetheless. Although there is some good hip hop music, the majority of it perpetuates a stagnant, lazy, selfish, disillusioned and depressing community of black folks.

All these rappers do is bitch about the system, bitch about their environments, and bitch about the lack of opportunities for their race.

Brian, I appreciate your frustration, but I just don't understand what you're talking about. In hip hop there is ten times or twenty times more celebrating than bitching: celebrating skill, motion, deftness of rhythm and rhyme, toughness, flash, a dance back and forth between voices and beats and danger. I don't see where Jay-Z is bitching about anything in "I sell ice in the winter/I sell fire in hell/I am a hustler baby/I sell water to a well." Certainly there's some bitching in hip hop - and there damn well should be - but that's just a small part of the game. Even people like Trick Daddy and Trina are ambivalent, complicated people (the word I'm looking for here is "artists") - they talk in one breath about how they're forced into being thugs and hoes and then in the next about how proud they are to be what they are and how good they are at it, and then make themselves sound amazing in the process. I think you're talking here more from your frustration than your knowledge - in any event, I wish you'd be more specific rather than talk about "all these rappers" across the board. I do admire you for being a teacher and for trying to do what you're doing - it's a difficult job that I would never dare to take. But I hope that as a teacher you're giving respect to the intelligence and style that exist outside the academic track, and sometimes outside the law. Because without that respect, you'll come off as if you're just trying to talk people out of being themselves, rather than helping them find another way to be themselves.

What music by Common do people recommend? I've always avoided the guy, because everyone always makes him sound like spinach. I mean, is he merely good for you, or is their joy and love and fun, as well?

Common is indie. Therefore his earlier stuff is better, by law.

Frank,

You are absolutely right. I am guilty of generalizing and stereotyping, for which I apologize. I am frustrated. Non-hip hop music has bad influences too. Dudes like Marilyn Manson and Ozzy Osbourne aren't exactly positive musical forces. Columbine wasn't in the inner city. My concern is with my people and the effect of the music on their expectations and perceptions of life. I think a lot of the folks on this thread like Frank, Hillis, Qoolout, Second Sage and Maz are intelligent, articulate people who obviously have a passion for the music. I enjoy reading all of your comments and, in hindsight, apologize for disrupting what was a positive and engaging dialogue.

Bryant G. (Hillis), I have been away for a liitle bit, but I was reading your messages and I applaude you for your effort at kicking some spanish, although what you said did not really make sense, you did try. Again, I applaude you..."A Life without a Cause is A Life without an Effect"......HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE....MANNY GUEVARA

Frank: Have you heard "I Used To Love H.E.R."? A good classic single that encapsulates all of Common's strengths and weaknesses in four minutes.

yo! I give it to nas dat lil flow was tight but he still aint came back. He just another hata hatin on Jay-Z he aint came back form dat time when Jay-Z shut him down on the blueprint. I can break nas in freestylin'think about it Jay-Z have had what 6 to 7 cd's out and nas only had 3 to 4 and nas been in tha game longer

Hey Brain, no need to apologize. If some facts were laid down and now you have a different point of view, then that’s one thing, but you didn’t disrupt anything. If you disagree with a point, let it be known. I am also upset about the state of rap and I hope that I am wrong, but I predict it getting worse before it gets better. But as long as we keep this thing constructive, we all learn from each other. And as far as Jay having more CDs….LL’s got more than both of them, but that doesn’t make him better, and Master P has a lot too, and we all know he’s not the best rapper. Lastly, never been a fan of Common, so I don't really know his work; I just know I don't like it.

yo Qoolout ive heard most of the jadakiss disses there hot did you here the styles diss to (oh my bad i forgot to put everything in caps lock)GAY-Z.HE SAYS THE ONLY THING YALL POP IS THE CORKS FROM THE WINE BOTTLE .AND THEN HE SAYS THERES ABOUT TO BE THREE DEAD DOGS IN A RESIVOIR REFERRING TO THE SONG ON THE HARD KNOCK LIFE ALBUM HE RAPS ON THE WAIT A MINUTE BEAT.YO HAVE YALL HEARD OF SHAHEED THE POSTER BOY THIS NIGGA IS NICE. I HEARD HIM ON A SONG WITH THE JURRASIC PARK BEAT THAT SHIT IS ILL.YALL CHECK THAT OUT.YO AM GOING TO GIVE YALL THE ADDRESS FOR THIS HOT ASS MIXTAPE SITE TAPEMAFIA.COM. ONE.

Gracias, Manny. Yo quiero saber que si te gustan las hamburguesas! Me gustan las hamburguesas mucho! Mi restaurante favorito es il "McDonald's." Ques es tu restaurante favorito? "Taco Bell?" La cena mexicana es muy bonita, no? Yo espere que tu puedo comer muchos tacos a la Nueva York. Buena suerte in la escuela. Hasta la victoria siempre. Y eso es verdadero. Bryant Gumbel 3000 salgo...

If you haven't heard Jada claims never to have a problem with Jay and he got in touch with Beans to squash it. DMX claims Jay is a friend of his. Jayo felony hattin. If we (the fans) stop boosting this shit it won't end up like that 2pac and biggie shit. There both great rappers and for those who don't know Nas did start it. But hopefully they'll be big enough to end and let hip-hop progress. If they both decided to go out now they'll go out legends. Stop comparing there first albums. Compare both there 2nd and both they're 3rd and so one. Then you'll have your answer. Hip-Hop 4-ever unless we kill it.

YO IT WASNT NAS THAT STARTED THE BEEF . THATS WHAT JAY-Z TRYING TO SAY THAT NAS AND PRODIGY STRATED THAT SHIT. I HEARD HIS BITCH ASS SAYING THAT ON B.E.T. THE OTHER DAY.IF YALL WOULDVE KNOWN IT WAS MEMPHIS BLEEKS CLOWN ASS THAT STARTED SHIT.HE TRIED TO GO ON HOT 97 AND TALK WITH A BARITONE AND TALK SHIT WITH HIS LITTLE ROCAFELLA CREW.SO MY MAN NAS HAD TO GO AFTER HIS DUMB ASS.AM OUT.ONE!

All of you that are talking about who started the beef between Nas and Jay-z think about this. If you guys remember a little rap group that went platnum in 1996 by the name of "THE FIRM." Y'all remember Nas the bonified leader AZ, Foxy Brown, and on occasion Nature. Think about this you have an up and comming rapper at the time (Jay-z)and he does numerous collabos w/ Foxy, and has AZ in one of his videos, plus one of his first hit singles has a sample of Nas's voice on "The world is yours" one of Nas's first hit singles. Jay-z was like the invisable 5th member of the group. Nas from what I herd turned down Jay to join the group. Rejection is a bitch! A need for retaliation aginst Nas. It makes sence because Foxy, and AZ are mad cool with Jay, except for Nas.I think by using Nas's voice, getting his Firm associate Foxy to be on THREE ALBUMS consecutively and also putting Beans and Amil on AZ most reasent album I think it is Jay tring to get in the head of Nas.Hopefuly neither of the two does anything rash to end thier carrers perminetly.

Jay-z is da number one rapper in the game for a few reasons: One, he's been the most consistant (From 96 till now he came out with a better than average album 96, reasonable doubt, 97 Vol 1, 98 Vol 2, 99,volume 3, 2000 Dynasty, and now 2G1 Blueprint, the best album right now. Whew!!.None of these albums went lower than platinium except Reasonable doubt, which went gold.Two, he can talk about anything, from blings to kings, streets to beefs, nuns to guns. Three, he proved that he can out battle alot of cats (even though he took the beef with prodigy a little too personal), his diss on Nas should really wake Nas up, so that he can make an album reminescent of illmatic, which was way better than reasonable doubt (sorry Jay gotta go with nas on that one.Four, he can back up his claim that he's the greatest better than anyone. Whatever the beef is, please keep it strictly on wax. one

This thing did start a few album back. They've been on bad terms for a while. Memphis did put it out in the open. But Nas decided to take shots at Jay and the whole crew b/c of something bleek said. Nas should have left that between him and bleek b/c that shit with him and Jay was deaded a while back.

Like Jay-z said B-4, the greatest ever in the rap game are Biggie, Nas, and Jay-Z. They are the Holy Trinity of Rhyme. If Jay-Z's the Father (J-Hova), Nas is the son (prophet sent to earth to kick knowledge),then Biggie is the Holy Spirit.One by themself can take over the whole game; together (if Biggie was alive), they could have took over the industry. 2-Pac was ill, LL was smooth, but as far as lyrics, punchlines, and distinctive flows and indifferent word plays, no one was better than the Holy Trinity of Rhyme. Now imagine if Jay- z and Nas squashed the beef and came together to do a one time only album, it would be the beginning of Armageddon even as we speak. Peace, and I give a shout out to the firefighters, the police and medical personal at GROUND zero and bigger shouts to the troops overseas, now this is the beef we all should care about! Peace, and God Bless America. One.

J-Dolo, how can you say Jay-Z Nas and BIG make up the Holy Trinity of rap? Nas has one good album. BIg has one good album. Jay-Z's success lies in production. You can't really believe them cats is better than Pac. Pac has a bigger fan base, more hits, and he's just better in general. You must be from New York with that Holy Trinity. Free your mind. Longevity in the game means a lot. Jay is the only one with any resemblance of that. And he's only been in it 5. Rethink your shit dog.

J-Dolo fella, I Have to argree with Bryant G. (Hillis) on this one, you can't be calling JayZ,Nas and BIG the Holy 3 or whatever you called them. what about MC NEW YORK (aka Tupac), L.L., Ice-Cube, KRS- ONE. maybe even Snoop Dogg.....and Dont give me that God Bless America crap. God Bless everybody, cause there are innocent human lives in Afghanistan that are being lost everyday due to these strikes or do you believe CNN and the DOD only.....HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE.. MANNY GUEVARA....

Yea, that whole trinity stuff I don't agree with either. I respect the fact you got love for all 3 MC's but, Holy trinity! If you were going to put any rappers in a Holy Trinity form of some sort you have to start at the begining of the game with the originators the cold crush brothers and so forth from there. The true patriarchs of the rap game.

Not to get off of the trinity subject or anything, but everyone go to this site thaformula.com/interviews and read how my nigga P rips Jay Z saying that he only showed that picture at Summer Jam because Mobb Deep were banned from performing there. He also says that if he was a real nigga that he would have shown up and the Source Awards, but he was no where to be found. Another thing for all you cats that feel Jay Z is lyrically better than Nas...... GET REAL!! Look for yourself at some of Nas's in-depth lyricals at Ohhla.com..................IT'S GETTING CLOSER TO STILLMATIC!! My fault duns the formula site also talks about how Jay Z had a private phone conversation with Cormega asking him about the status of Nas and P. This so called King of HipPop is a fake yall better realize that!!

I didnt mean that they were the holy trinity of "rap";i just said that they were the holy trinity of "rhyme". Rap itself is the overall music ability (beats, rhymes, patterns,etc) i'm talking straight out lyrics, and how they're put together, how they are said, and the ability to flow from the top of the head. Jay-z and Biggie, from what i heard from reliable sources that worked with them, never, and I MEAN NEVER, had anything down on paper! And Nas,even though he probably have written, listen to illmatic, and youll see that he paints vivid pictures of his life and the street life;basically, nas is a natural poet, and Biggie has the charisma, and Jay-Z has the flow. I'm not talking about the best ever, I mean the best recently. LL may had sold more records than all three of them, but lets be honest,right now would he be able to mess with jay-z, nas, or biggie, he barely got by canibus (no respect to canibus).

I gotta agree wit Best. No way is Jay better than Nas if you listen to the content; it’s not even open for discussion. And no way is Nas, Jay or B.I.G. better than Pac. I mentioned LL to prove that a lota CDs does not mean you are tight i.e. Hov. He can flow, I’ll admit that, but if I had a percentage of ROC, I’d put out a lotta CDs too. But that’s neither here nor there. About this so-called rap beef…that’s all it is. Rap. And we as the fans can hype it, all day long, but if it turns to gunplay, that’s not something, I feel, you can blame on the fans. People hype stuff in high school, you gotta be man enough to not feed into the hype. Also, we really don’t know who started it. The person who rapped the first diss didn’t necessarily start it. We may never know what caused this, but I agree Jay got childish by showing them pics. One last thing about B.I.G, I like him as a rapper and he was better than Jay in my book, but he gets no props for not responding to Pac. He said it himself that he wanted to respond, but Puff advised him against it. But then he makes a video dissin’ Faith? An R&B singer and the mother of your child? But you say nothing to Pac? Come on, that’s a punk move if I’ve ever saw one. Oh yeah, we never know if they are freestylin’ or not, so they get no points for that. Just because they don’t write their rhymes, that doesn’t mean they are spitting from the top of the head, they just have it memorized, and that’s not freestylin’.

As classic as Illmatic was, as of now Nas cannot fuck wit Jay. Everybody who argues for Nas always goes, "Illmatic! Illmatic!" Or even worse, "Wait and see how tight STILLmatic is!" First of all, Nas has one classic and that one makes him better than Jay? Please, Reasonable Doubt and Hard Knock Life (in my opinion) are both better than Illmatic. But even if you disagree, you cannot say any of Nas' other shits (literally, shits) can touch Jay's. Jay's worst album (to me, Vol 1.) is 20 times better than weak ass Nastradamus. And it was written had some great cuts, but overall it barely touches any of Jay's album. I Am was good for a month, then I never listened to that bitch again.

Second of all, the "Stillmatic" is supposed to be tight. Well, "Born Again" was SUPPOSED to be tight, but it was disappointing. "Tha Doggfather" was supposed to be tight, but it was disappointing. Hell, Jay-Z's "Volume 3" was supposed to be the "Thriller" of rap albums. But that shit definitely didn't live up to it's hype. The point is, just like the majority of BIG's fans, you guys jump on the potential bandwagon. BIG had the POTENTIAL to be the best MC ever, but was cut short, but some people give him the crown anyway with only one classic under his belt. And y'all doin it for Nas. Everybody screamin "Stillmatic! Stillmatic!" Well, I'm gonna scream "Nastradamus! Nastradamus!" The album and the gay ass song...

Think about this. I'm a TN Titans fan. They suck right now. Sure they was the AFC champs two years ago, and the NFL's best team at the end of the regular season. But they are still 3-4 now. Until they turn it around, it would be naiive of me to say they're better than the Rams, Raiders, Pack, etc... Remember that Nas fans.

Holla.

not to get too far off of hip-hop, but i had to respond to manny's comments. i'm still a little ill about the monkey statement which was way out of line, but i agree that many innocent lives are being taken and many of us need to open are eyes to that fact. america was pissed after the sept 11 tragedy and our leaders knew that to satisfy our anger they needed to bomb something. and they've been doing that without direction and we've been silent to the fact that we are taking innocent lives. i do apologize for getting off of the subject, but God bless america? i don't think so. God bless us all!

what went on with d12 throwing rocks at esham? anyone know?? the tupac thing is like the princess diana thing. sucky.

Some peeps listen to rap or music in general just so they can nod their head or pump their fist. There’s nothing wrong with that. All it takes to satisfy these kinds of fans (I’m not one) is a good beat or a nice hook. Jigga’s CDs have both. As far as content goes, like I said before, Jigga can not touch Nas. I listen to the words and I like songs that have some type of point. I’m not saying that the song has got to be deep; I’m only saying tell me something and show me you put some effort into your rhyme. Girls, girls, girls is a perfect example of a meaningless song, so is Nastradaums. Izzo has an okay beat, catchy hook, but that’s not what makes me like a song. It does sell. So if the question is “does Jay out sell Nas?” Of course he does, but as far as who puts out better content, I say Nas. If you disagree…well, to each his own.

i can't help think of "'nads" everytime i read "nas" anyone else have that problem? howbout Mr C? "fure feelin mind in motion flowing like a river into the ocean"...

"FUTURE feeling mind in motion" god i just cannot control my fingers

My question is, why does either rapper give a damn about the other. Are they fighting over who's better or who is the most real, or what? Like Jay said, "What you eat don't make me shit". So who cares make your own damn music cash your check and be EASY. I also believe that though their hatin each other theres still a mutual respect b/c nobody waste their time on bull shit. I mean ain't nobody messing with Nelly and he's walking around saying he's #1. That's b/c nobody cares. I also believe that's why Jay didn't trash Jayo Felony and the others they just weren't worth it. "I like them both"

god i just cannot control my fingers

that usually results in pleasure though, no ?

Bob and Vic, take it easy with that all that pleasure crap, you clowns wanna hook up email eachother..Im trying to have a dialogue with my young brothers and sisters here...everybodys talking about illmatic, illmatic, holy shit it ain't the bible fellas. name three songs besides "lifes a bitch" and "NY S.o.M." on that album, without looking it up...Don Was did I hurt your feelings?? You have not said anything constructive till your last message so I will upgrade to a Chimp, ok?? .....Bryant G, que fue mi pana?? ...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE.. MANNY GUEVARA

As for you Qooluot, yoou claim to look for content and but you have not once mentioned RAKIM..your a young buck who only knows NAs and Jay-Z, so it would be a waste of everybodys time to listen to your content nonsense, when all you listen to are the mainstream songs like evrybody else. you wanna be thug punk kid. RAKIM pick it up, he has plenty out there....HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE..MANNY GUEVARA

Nelly was #1 though, on the charts. And he probably will be again. But he's so laid back and unpretentious, even on that track, that nobody seems to care except for the underground pop-haters, who he reserves special bile for.

biggie only had 1 good record? haha ok whatever you say and born again was tight, listen to song number 17 and 4. Tupac ran his mouth too much and maybe some people are into bullshit like hit em up. Hills, first i think you said that selling records doesnt make you a good rapper but then you go and say that tupac had a better fanbase (white people generaly) whatever

Speaking of "beefs" and "dis" records, I'm curious to see which "dis" tracks y'all think are best of all time. Off the top of my head, "Hit 'Em Up" by Pac, Cube's "No Vaseline" and Eminem's recent slam on Limp Bizkit/Everlast "Girls" come to mind. Of course most old school rap was based on lyrical battling, but what do y'all think are the most scathing verbal assaults of all time?

See Manny, I figured you had left it alone; I thought you had learned your lesson, but I guess I was wrong. I guess you enjoy me pointing out your ignorance. First of all, you have yet to correctly spell Qoolout. Take your time, I think you can accomplish this small task. Second, why do you keep hatin’ on me? Why do you have such an infatuation with Qool? Why do you like peeps pointing out your juvenile writing skills? Don said he had no time for you and still you try to pull him into it. Learn to spell “you,” and "everybody's" before you address me again. You've never been to Africa, and who cares if you have? And what does that have to do with anything. And I never said I was a thug, so what are you talking about? Why are you such a fool? If you disagree, then disagree and leave it at that, simpleton. For some reason you want me to keep showing just how ignorant you are. So I'll do it again. For starters, I did mention Rakim before, so you were wrong. Second, Rakim is gone. I give him props for paving the way, but that's over now. I don't usually mention record sells, but they meant more back then. Remember his last CD? Did it even go wood? If it did or it didn't, what is your point? I know you aren't saying his flow is better than the people that I've mentioned. He paved the way, but today he is in retirement and I suggest you let him stay there. Just like the old heads in B- ball. They were great back then, but that was then. Ra doesn't wanna see Jay, Nas, Em...none of them. Pac is dead and his stuff is better. And stop lying about being in school. Your foolishness, shows me that you NEED to be in school. Otherwise, why would you criticize me for only speaking about Jay and Nas. 1 that's false and 2 they are the topic. Get some sense. Oh yeah, if it's a waste of time to read my words, WHY do you respond? Are you trying to be comical or are you that much of a fool? Lastly, since you have accepted my other dares, here's a new one: Say something about rap. Make sure it contains NO nonsense. Okay? And see if you can say it intelligently. Yeah, I know I'm asking for too much, but just go try it. Maz, I think I like Cube's diss the best, but Jada's was hard too.

justin timberlake has good flow. (every month?)

Big J, you can't be serious! Considering that "Born Again" was made with up to date beats, had mad collabos, and took 3 years to come out, that shit was a MAJOR disappointment. You said it's tight and told me to listen to 2 songs. Yeah, right! C'mon, dawg, the only good songs on that album were #4 (wit Cash Money) and "Dead Wrong." "Rap Phenomenon," "NOTORIOUS," the song wit Snoop and Busta Rhymes, and the song wit Beanie were stomachable. The rest of that album was a disgrace to BIG's legacy. How Puff gon let that weak excuse for a follow-up come after Life After Death? And I can say with a straight face that Ready to Die wasn't all that good, either. The production was suspect. "The What" and "Big Poppa" were the only classic tracks. "Warning" was good, too. So yeah, BIG had one good album, but that album happened to be the best album to come out of New York.

Big J, don't get it twisted. Any SUCCESSFUL rapper has a fan base that is predominantly white. How does any rapper sell? Of course rich young white kids put em over the million mark. Be realistic. BIG's fan base was white kids, too. And Nas, Jay, whoever. You can't fault Pac for having more white boys than BIG. And how racist was that statement?! White folks can't like/know hip-hop? You're a waste of time Big J.

The best rap diss ever was definitely Hit Em Up, and anybody who thinks it's "bullshit" (i.e. Big J) really shouldn't have a discussion about rap, because your thinking is obviously flawed.

Justin Timberlake can flow? Really? On what?

i appreciate your response to manny's ignorance. unfortunately i don't get on this thread daily, so by the time i read his nonsense you had already responded. i was so close to stooping to his level as i scrolled down the thread and you saved me the grief. i try not to involve myself in pure ignorance because it gets personal and we really don't know eachother. manny, did you hurt my feelings? well, yeah. though you are no brother of mine, it does hurt me to know that people of color are continually holding eachother down with hateful words, let alone racist words. if you need to direct anything in towards me, do it as a man. i promise to show that same respect. otherwise there are many sights that would welcome your views on black people. by the way, are you an auburn student?

Qoollloouut, Tu eres un nino, que no sabe nada de nada, entiende? Why don't you look those words up just like the new words you learned when you wrote your last message. Guy, I have been all over the world, why don't you try getting out of your suburban hood. You fool!...Don Was, your still a chimp, but I dont want you to take that word as as racist remark. Lesson one, never ASSUME anything. I might have said some things about Hip-hop but I never said that I dislike or hate anybody because of their Ethnicity or Color. O.k. sweetheart?...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE..MANNY GUEVARA..

Ok fellas these are my top 5 Rappers of all time (Living, Dead and Retired, is that ok with you Ms. Qoolout)..Now every rapper had a mainstream song outthere and if you cant admit that, then your as much of a clown as Ms. Qoolout...this is NOT in order..1) Rakim, 2) Tupac, 3) KRS-ONE (he can rip anybody in a free-battle), 4) LL 5)Jay-Z. My Sixth man goes to B.I.G.,died before his time and not much to go on after that. Unlike 2Pac who still drops albums just when you thought he was done...Many of you will disagree and if so tell me yours...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE...MANNY GUEVARA

(Let me make this clear This message is for those who have been doing this battling BULLSHIT over this board past and present!)

look all of you have strong opinions on who's the best who's not and who can take who on the battle field. Thats all fine speak your peace and respect each others opinion. Look I didn't complain before about this because I thought it was funny just like everybody else. But this is a discussion about rap, and yeah it will get emotional when you talk about something you feel strongly about but the constant insults and duragatory comments is kiddy, for goodness sake! All I hear is I'm a grown man, I'm a grown man! Well age does not play a factor in what you guys(some of you not all)consider a grown man! The character, and willingness to conduct a conversation as MEN! Not the number givin by government to consider indivisuals as leagal adults. I'm 16 and I'm not a rightious person trying to kick positive knowlege to you guys, thats not what I'm here for. Nor am I the posterboy for a positive outlook on rap. I get emotional too with my friends when we talk about it but I don't go as far as insulting his or her race or intelegents. A while back when this guy who posted a message on this board I forgot his name, I think it was "rap sucks" but anyways, he dislike rap and insulted the culture of whole genre. You guys really showed him didn't you when you continued to embarrased our allready ridiculed audience. Let that battling shit stay with in the rappers they will get the idea adventually being dead or alive, you know what I mean! As a diverse world we are not going to agree you know that, but why is the WTC, race, and intellegents have any thing to do with what is you opinion about rap and who you think is the best. Keep expresing your opinion if you disagree with someone or you just want to be herd. But the BULLSHIT is not needed!

HOLLYWOOD Holla Back!

wow hills you obviously must still be stuck on the dirty south beats to even realize the greatness of newyork. i was going to make my post longer explaining my so called "racist" comment but i was at school and there was a white boy staring at my computer. plus i dont think that could even be counted as racist comment unless your some kind of arian brotherhood maniac or some shit like that. your not much of a big fan so i dont think you would get much out of it as i would since hes my favorite of all time and listen to the shit almost everyday so i would be saying gayz's shitprint was good because im not a jayz fan.right im a waste of time, i cant debate forever(thinkin about becomeing a laywer) oh and some more tracks that are good. 4 (cashmoney) 11(meth and redman) 17(nas) 15 i think(the one with ice cube, black rob and shitie sigel) the one with mobb deep in it is tight but like i said im mostly newyork and non-pop when it comes to rap music. and you know Suge knight forced tupac to do alot of those dis songs btw. and LOX your the man keep representin man.

Hollywood, shut the fuck up! I been battlin in here cuz I'm a grown ass man, and if me and somebody in here wanna battle. we'll battle. And I said it before: If I say somethin about the WTC and you don't like it, you can kiss my ass, cuz I say what I want. Nobody battlin has said anything to yo ass, but you wanna come at us with what you think about us? Fuck you! I don't give a damn what you or anybody else in this thread thinks about my confrontations.

Big J, that shit about Pac's fan base being white was racist! Why did you say that? What the fuck does that mean? No matter what genre of music, Black musicians usually have a predominantly white fan base, cuz there are more of them than anyone else! But you seem to think that fault's 2Pac's success. Fuck that! 2pac is more beloved than any rapper, he sells better than any rapper, and everyone acknowledges his musical skills. He's the best ever! Plain and simple. Ask niggas, white boys, sand niggas, eses, squaws, whoever. They will tell you that Pac was the man.

Record sells don't mean you're the best artist. But, c'mon. They do mean something. I mean, to sell over a million records, they have to do SOMETHING right. Plus, how else can you distinguish the great rappers? I mean we can argue who's deeper, lyrically wittier, whatever we want all day, but that's all opinion. But sales are based on cold hard facts. Record sales for Nelly, Ludacris, etc. are different from record sales for Pac, Mobb Deep, Jay, Nas, BIG, and other longtime players. Nelly selling 7 million on one album, or Juvi sellin 5 million on one album is different from Jay taking 4 albums platinum over 4 years. That's why I bring up record sales. To distinguish the kings.

Manny, your list needs to take Rakim off of #1.

My PERSONAL list (not my considering all the issues list)

2Pac (for obvious reasons), BIG (2 words - lyrical genius), UGK (Pimp C has delivery that rivals 2Pac/Bun B's wordplay is excellent), Outkast (at LEAST 3 classics - SouthernPlayaListic is the best album out the South), Three 6 Mafia (remember, this is MY personal list - long live the Dirty, Dirty!).

Holla.

Hills 3000 why are you so hostile when people show constructive criticism towards your actions on the board. You did not even get the idea of my message and you to come out and bash someone who actually repected you by not telling you to shut the fuck up.Yeah I used profanity but not towards indivisuals like you have with me. You can argue your point all you want to about who is the best rapper and so forth. I got no beef with that what so ever. My message was to stick to the subject and not insult each other on views,race,and intellegents. You have your opinion about the WTC if you want to express you opinion do so but don't include them in your battles with whoever. That to me is foolish, and you to take offence like I cussed you out, like some other people have. It is wrong I did not even come to you like that I just spoke my mind and you disagreed okay. But you bashed on me. Whatever motive you have to get under peoples skin is wrong and if you were so grown you would have had the mutual respect for me as I did to you. I did not even mention your name as one of the people who I was talking about. I did not want to put names out like that, but that's okay you wanted that way so you got it.I sill got love for you even though I diagree with your actions towards me. I'll take the high road on this one and tell you to have a nice day Hills.

Holla

My bad y'all, but this here post has very little to do with rap, instead it's dedicated to someone. That's right Manny, it's just for you. First of all, since you have such a love for Qool, let's make this official. You wanna question me so much, and you are so worried about what I type...okay, you broke me down. The answer is, yes. Yes, you can be my hoe. All right, as my hoe, let's get some things clear. We are gonna drop that M from Manny and just call you Anny. Okay? And whoever is reading this, you know that that's how we will address this simpleton, as Anny. Next Anny, you've got to get some intelligence. I can't stand a stupid hoe, and no hoe of mine will be stupid. Thus, you will no longer say foolishness like "I've been all over the world." WHO CARES!?!?!? What does that have to do with rap? Oh yeah, if you gonna be saying my name so much, you gotta learn to say it right. I can't have my hoe disrespecting me. So learn the name, so you can "Say my name, say my name." Also, before you try speaking two languages, learn how to speak one correctly. That "Hasta La Victoria" bull is weak cuz, and makes no sense. Okay, we are gonna keep one thing as it is. You know how everyone on the thread has raped you? We gonna let that continue. I know I can't turn you into a house wife so why should I say "you can only be my hoe"? No, no, everyone can still hit Manny...my bad, I mean Anny. It ain't no fun if the homies can't have none. Holla...hoe.

Hollywood, I've said that too many times to count. Scroll up. I've been asking to get back on the topic of rap and we took it back for a second. But Anny had something negative to say and he forced my hand. 80% of what you said, was already said by me. I said that if you wanna disagree, do that and leave it there. But, if someone disrespects me, what should I do? I'll do the same you did. I don't know if you will admit it of not, but you said something negative things towards Hillis; you felt he attacked you and you responded. That's all many of us were doing against Anny. I know I probably should have taken the high road, but what's done is done. Don ask Anny to show some respect. We tried all of that stuff that you are suggesting and I even suggested some of that, but fools (Anny) only understand foolishness. Once again, I'll try to stick to rap, but it's Anny you need to address.

Damn, Anny! You gon go out like that?! Ha!

First of all Hollywood, it's Hillis 3000! Hillis! Not Hills - Hillis! Second, you can't take the high road cuz you obviously came after me. You "tried" to be subtle, and you supposedly tried to keep my name out ya mouth. But I'm the only one who said anything about the WTC, so if you mention that I know who you're talking to. And fuck that, I say names. I don't appreciate you tellin me what I should or shouldn't say or how I should or shouldn't battle. If you don't wanna battle, pay us no mind. Write what you write, and be out. Don't try to slide lil shit in on people and assume since you don't say names, we'll just take that shit in stride. I haven't let anything in here slide by me since the first time I posted. Ask Anny, lox, JS, Big J, and anybody else that got shit to say to me or about my region. So, I'm not gonna start lettin shit slide with you, Hollywood. Next time you got somethin on ya chest, be more general, and don't be so specific, you cockroach.

Anny! lol! I know you ain't gon go out like that man's hoe! Ha!

My bad on saying your name wrong hillis 3000.I'm not trying to tell you what to do, or try to battle you.And when I did not say your name, that is because you were not the only one I was talking about.It was for those people who were doing the battlin on the board,yes you were one of them but the whole messege was not devoted towards you.If you think I'm just putting on a front by being subtle,you were right.Because I thought If I would come to you with out cussing you out and telling you who you are and this and that you would reply with the same respect.You have opinions,and if you feel I attacked you I'm sorry and not to seem soft.I appologize,but it is hard to see this subject get out of hand.This message is not about trying to get back at you but come to an understanding with the situation at hand.Qoolout you are right you said the same things.And manny has been one of guys battling on this board.But just like Hillis 3000 I did not want to point fingers and name, names because I felt it was not my place to put a face on the problem but speak my peace on the issues that I felt needed to be left alone.This my only message

"It's okay to have cival disagreements on sertain issues.But moraly it is wrong for us to attack one another by attacking each others self being.Ignorance excist but using that same ignorance to fight back is not getting anyone anywere.To move above we all must respect each other and use words not as weapons."

Sounds lame I know but it is how I feel

Holla back Hollywood

Now, Hollywood. I can dig that. Holla.

Hollywood, Your last message had me crying. Take of your skirt and grab your fucking balls. "im sorry hillis,im sorry hillis, why dont you send him a christmas present while your at it boy!!. There are people in this world who either Know or Don't Know. Qoolout just Doesn't Know. He mocks my phrase, but yet he doesn't know what it means or what it stands for, but yet he is probably using it. You are a puppet Qoolout, I have been pulling your strings at will. Bryant G is learning, but dont get out of line either boy!!..Oh yeah Qoolout, that "Anny" bit was funny, I enjoyed that one...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE..MANNY GUEVARA

Hey Anny, Hillis already told us what your weak phrase means. Best believe, I'm not using it. But look, I don't even wanna beef anymore. You got your opinions and I've got mine. So we can squash it. People can read our posts and they can debate about who won, me or you. I'll even go ahead and call you Manny. For real. I mean, it was fun while it lasted, but let's move on. No hard feelings from this side. Holla. P.S. I'm glad you liked the Anny bit. It had me laughing, too.

Qoolout, This was not a competition for me. I can tell that you have a lot to learn because you were out to win somehting that could not be won. I came on here to listen to what people had to say and how they felt about certain subjects and I threw out some of my own ideas in the mean time. Respect. A Life without a Cause, is a Life without Effect.....HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE...MANNY GUEVARA

I definitly made this board more interesting, didn't I fellas??..But I still heard nobody answer me on the top 5?? NOT in order I got Rakim,KRS-ONE,Tupac,L.L.,JAY-Z...6th man goes to BIG...what you monkeys think??

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE....MANNY GUEVARA...L.T.R.B.

FUCK JIGGA AND HIS 5 MICS (I GUESS 6TH TIMES A CHARM FOR JIGGA, UNLIKE NAS WHO GOT 5 MICS THE 1ST TIME)AND WHO WAS ON THE COVER OF THE SOURCE-----OF COARSE THE REALEST, ILLEST, MC THAT EVER LIVED... SO FUCK GAY-Z AND HIS "TAKEOVER", WE KNOW HES JUST A H.O.M.O. YALL MU'FUCKERS GET READY CUZ DEC.11TH A LOT OF HEATS GOIN' DOWN

"TO BE THE BEST U GOTTA GET AT THE BEST" -NAS

IS THIS WHY JIGGA SAID SOME BULLSHIT AT THE SUMMERJAM? HMMMMMMM

WHO REALLY STARTED THE BEEF ???

FUCK THAT COMMERCIAL ASS BULL SHIT FOR THE REALNESS LOG ON TO www.stillmatic.com ~1~ BIIAAAAAATCH

FUCK JIGGA AND HIS 5 MICS (I GUESS 6TH TIMES A CHARM FOR JIGGA, UNLIKE NAS WHO GOT 5 MICS THE 1ST TIME)AND WHO WAS ON THE COVER OF THE SOURCE-----OF COARSE THE REALEST, ILLEST, MC THAT EVER LIVED... SO FUCK GAY-Z AND HIS "TAKEOVER", WE KNOW HES JUST A H.O.M.O. YALL MU'FUCKERS GET READY CUZ DEC.11TH A LOT OF HEATS GOIN' DOWN

"TO BE THE BEST U GOTTA GET AT THE BEST" -NAS

IS THIS WHY JIGGA SAID SOME BULLSHIT AT THE SUMMERJAM? HMMMMMMM

WHO REALLY STARTED THE BEEF ???

FUCK THAT COMMERCIAL ASS BULL SHIT FOR THE REALNESS LOG ON TO www.stillmatic.com ~1~ BIIAAAAAATCH

FUCK JIGGA

I cried too Manny!But anyways a day ago my girl told me to check out this guy name 50 cent. She thought I never herd of him but all I know is that he hate Jay-z. So I listened to it over the phone and he kinda fuck Jay up on it.I don't know who he really is so my question is why the hell is 50 cent dissin Jay-z and who started the beef.

I am a liitle slow on things but I figured out that on "some like it hot" song on Jay's album vol.3 he kinda made a comeback somewhat by saying "What the fuck is 50 cent" on verse one.It didn't do anything for me.But my girl the biggest Jay fan said he ate him up??????????? Tell me what you think

Holla back ya, Hollywood

hey hillis, what albums by ugk and three six do you recommend? i'd like to check 'em out? by the way qoolout, "we are the streets" is hot. like you said kiss is tight as hell on that. i haven't heard his solo joint yet, but it's on my list too.

Whatever Manny. You are actually kinda correct. Yeah, I was trying to win and you take that how you wanna. And yeah, I have a lot to learn, but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Moving on... until I hear Nas' new thing, I won't speak on it. What's the best track in you all's opinion on Blueprint? I can really relate to "Song Cry." Let me know what y'all feelin.' Maz, I told you, go head and get the solo too. And Manny, my fave five, not the best, but my best are : Pac, Nas, Jigga, Jada, and Scarface back in the day. Oh yeah, I heard that Rakim is about to sign with Dre. No bull, I heard it on the radio this moring. LOX, what's the name of the Styles-Jigga diss? Holla.

YO WHAT UP YALL!YO HILLIS WHYD THE HELL YOU HAD TO CALL ME OUT LIKE THAT I THOUGHT WE SQUASHED THE SHIT.AM GONNA STAY WITH MY OPINION ALLRIGHT!I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR BEST RAPPERS LIST BUT 36 MAFIA IS SUSPECT! CHECK THERE SONGS TWO WAY FREAK,CHICKENHEAD,TONGUE RING ETC.CMON THESE ARE NOT VERY GOOD SONGS.I COULD MAKE THESE SONGS RIGHT NOW. AND WHATS THE DEAL WITH ICING OUT THERE TWO WAYS THATS SO FUNNY.ANYWAY I DONT HAVE BEEF WITH MANNY SO I AINT EVEN GONNA ADDRESS HIM.YO QOOLOUT I DONT KNOW BUT IT WAS ON THE FUNK FLEX SPECIAL DELIVERY PART THREE.YO LET ME BRING SOMETHING OUT DO YALL KNOW BOUT BIG L I THINK THIS CAT IS BLAZING HOT . HIS LAST CD WAS CALLED THE BIG PICTURE IT WENT GOLD.ANYWAY YALL CHECK THAT OUT.AND THERES SOME NEW CATS OUT LIKE BATHGATE,JOE BUDDENS(RASHEED WALLACE),JAE HOOD THERE HOT TOO.AM OUT.ONE.

"Never Change" is my favorite cut off of The Blueprint. My Favorite Five are Pac, Nas, Wu-Tang, Outkast, and Eminem. That D12 album is pretty tight. It ain't a classic, and the "shock" theme gets pretty tired, but it's got some funny ass lyrics and Eminem's homies are actually fairly talented. Usually when a rapper blows up and tries to help out his boys, they've usually got wack-ass skills. But D12 can flow alright, and that Bizzaro dude is a trip. Straight up that cat's crazy.

top 5 lyrically(gotta do that cause that's what moves me), no particular order: Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Ras Kass, Eminem, Nas. G.O.A.T.: Pac, Big, L.L., Ra, KRS overall: right now, i gotta go with Jay

also, Hollywood I felt what you were saying, but you did go a little overboard. I got a little teary-eye'd myself. much respect!

Top cut on 'blueprint'-- "Hola Hovito"

AYO LOX! WHAT THE DEAL SON?!?!! YOU SAID BIG L WAS HOT.... I REALLY DO AGREE BUT JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHER SERIOUS LYRICISTS...HE'S WITH GOD... AND IT REALLY HURTS SOMETIMES TO THINK OF HOW ALL THE TRUE ARTISTS LOST THIER LIVES OVER SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS WORDS!!!!! R.I.P. 2PAC B.I.G. BIG.L. AND THOSE WHO DIED ANONYMOUSLY AALIYAH, PUN, EAZY E... AND FOR THOSE WHO HAVE DAMN NEAR BEEN KILLED FOR THE SAME SH*T! SNOOP DOGG, 50 CENTS, LIL-KIM(SHOOT OUT WIT CNN),JA RULE (FIGHT WIT 50 CENTS), ETC... "sTaY aLiVe".... TO THE RAPPAZ WIT TRUE TALENT THAT ARE WASTIN' THEIR GOD GIVEN TALENT ON BULLSH*T BEEF...(JAY'Z-JADA,DMX- KURUPT,BEANIE,NAS,LLCOOLJ,WYCLEF,CANIBUS,NELLY,FOXY,)...TRY LEARNIN' A THING OR TWO FROM YOUR LOST BROTHERS I AIN'T SAYIN' GO B*TCH OR SOFT... BUT WHAT I AM SAYIN IS... THAT IF 2PAC COULD SAY ONE THING RIGHT NOW IT WOULDN'T BE "RIDE OR DIE" "WEST-SIDE" OR "BADBOY KILLA'S"... HE WOULD TELL YOU TO GET THE MUTH*FUCKIN MONEY F*CK THE FAME AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST..... "STAY ALIVE" (CUZ YOU CAN'T SPEND OR MAKE THAT MONEY IN HEAVEN DAWG, THE CROME AND METAL SH*T IS REAL AND NIGGAZ KILLED OVER THE SAME WORDS THEY MAKE MONEY OFF OF!) Damn...! ONE! feel free to respond...

Yo i completely agree York. These niggaz out here actin like they bold gut when them bullet's come ain't neither one o' dem cat's gonna turn in to Neo and start dodgin'. they all go runnin. In my personal opinion you've damn near posted the most intelligent response i've seen on this board if not all! My respects.... DUN!!! ONE-LUV

don't mean shit next to doug-e fresh.

Qoolout, unlike you, I am a man of my word and I ended it but you keep yapping your fucking mouth. You want me to think your an adult, yet your still acting like a child. Lesson 2: Always keep your Word....Hollywood I dont know who 50 cent is, sorry brother can't help you there...Hogan and Donell, What on Gods green earth did you two jokers say in your messages!?! "o' dem' catz', das da bess message anyone has posted?? What,What,What,What,What???...Get a dictionary fellas!!Who said Rakim is teaming up with Dre? Is that true?....HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE...MANNY GUEVARA..

My man lox, I ain't tryin to call you out, I'm just sayin we've battled before, dawg. But you squashed it, so I did, too. Ain't nothin to me sayin yo name earlier. But on the real, I know 3-6 Mafia is suspect on ANYBODY'S top 5 list, but I love their beats and their style of rap. Songs like "Chickenhead," "2Way Freak," etc. are all songs with tight beats and funny subjects. They're supposed to make yo laugh. They're lyrical crap, but they bang and entertain.In my own opinion Juicy "J" is in today's top rappers, but that's my list. I know good and well, that 3-6 Mafia is not in the top 5 in a list considering all the facts and issues, but 3-6 appeals to the South in me, so I gotta go with em.

If anybody is interested in UGK, they should get they album "Ridin Dirty" which is a Southern classic. #2 (One Day) has Ron Isley so it's an instant hit. #3-#6 are tight, too. #10 is a hot one, too. The other tracks are just good, but the aforementioned are bangin. Also, UGK did a lot of hits wih No Limit. Get "Slangin," "Break Em Off Somethin," and "Playas from the South." Plus get "Stick Em up" with UGK and Ludacris.

If anybody is interested in Three 6 Mafia, they should get "The End" which is personally my favorite album. "Gotcha Shakin," "Late Nite Tip," and "Cash Flow" are hot. There are other good tracks, but those are the standout tracks. I love all their albums, but if you like The End, you'll like the album after that: "Chapter 2.

My favorite cut on "The Blueprint" changes. First it was The Takeover, then it was Hola Hovito. Next was Renegade, and now it's Jigga the Nigga. But overall, I'd say Hola Hovito because that's the best beat on the song.

Holla.

freedom williams is the best mc that ever lived

Another thing: I heard 50 Cent on this song where he raps about robbin numerous artists with the Madd Rapper. He aiight. He sounds like a cross between Beanie and Jay-Z. On any note, he's a man that only gets half a bar from Jigga.

I'd like to submit my list of top 13 hip hop albums of all time. I'd like to know what y'all think. Don't beat me down too bad. Y'all are some opinonated and passionate folks!

13) Raekwon: Only Built for Cuban Linx-It's a must for any hip-hop fanatic like me. Totally innovative lyrics and beats. 12) 2Pac: All Me against the World - I love 'Pac. There's probably better albums than this, but I love 'Pac. 11) Beastie Boys: Paul’s Boutique – Many people have missed this album. A music masterpiece—at least a sample masterpiece. These three white boys improved upon their debut album by putting together strong lyrics with a collage of beats. One of the most intriguing albums of all time of any genre. 10) Public Enemy:It Takes A Nation of Millions to Hold us Back – Brought political rap to the world, while maintaining the soul of Hip Hop. Flavor Flav was a great compliment to Chuck D. Terminator X’s brought loud in your face beats that backed up lyrics which made for a lethal combination of riotous music 9) Wu-Tang Clan: Enter the Wu-Tang(36 Chambers) – Dirty, grungy beats and lyrics from the East. Introduced Method Man and RZA. Concentrates on various different styles of the many members of Wu- Tang. Considered by many, the finest exhibition of lyrics and flow of all time. Definitely brought their own style to the industry. 8) Dr. Dre: 2001 – Long time to wait for a second album! Dre, once again, brings the highest quality of production and popularizes his new simplified version of his old style. He brings in more live instruments, mainly guitars, bass and keys. 7) Notorious B.I.G.: Ready to Die – Great lyrics. The listener could always picture what Biggy was talking about. Creative use of metaphors and similes. Beats lacked a little, but the feel of the album combined with the flow made up for it. 6) Eminem: Marshal Mathers LP – This is where pop rap is at the millennium. Slim Shady’s style is controversial and aggressive. Another artist that give the listener visuals. His delivery is obscure but not hard to get used to. Another feather in Dre’s beenie. Without Dre, Eminem wouldn’t even be a morsel on the map of the rap industry. 5) EPMD: Strictly Business – One of the first to put an emphasis on witty lyrics. Instrumental in developing the east coast street style. 4) 2 Pac: All Eyez on Me - Yeah, Gangsta rap was around for a while by the time this album dropped, but this 'Pac's best? . 3) A Tribe Called Quest: The Low End Theory – Jazzy laid back album with Q-tip working the boards. Offered a popular and respectable alternative to the gangster trend that was. Positive and self help lyrics helped define the difference between Hip Hop and Rap. More musical and less typical was this product. 2) Outkast: Southernplayalisticadillacmusik – These two brought the South to par. Great sounding album. Very free and musical sounding, topped with fast flows and conventional lyrics. After hearing this, it’s not hard to wonder how these guys have had staying power, and have been considered the best rap duo ever. 1) Nas: Illmatic – Lyrics, lyrics, lyrics. Tells stories of growing up and surviving with in-depth emotional words. Tough to beat if you want to hear great, classic style east coast lyrics.

Number 1 Karl, KISS MY GOD DAMN ASS! I been with the rap game since I was old enuff to get the moneys to by shit on vinyl and tape, so FUCK YOU! Number 2, I'm just using Pac/Biggie as an example. I could give you many more, but your fake ass wouldn't have heard of them. And number 3, in the words of my man Jay Hova, "he who does not feel me is not real to me, therefore he doesn't exist, so poof! vamoose son of a bitch!"

i just love the fact you go to the university of gloucester!!!

All rappers brag but gayz does it so much, that faggot better make some friends quick because the whole fuckin QB dont like his ass. anyway unlike most of these new rappers biggie tried to have fun with his shit and hillis what was the name of that song where he supposedly disses faith? i dont know about that 50 cents guy but one of my friends told me that sticky fingers made a song dissing tupacs mom and shit, i dunno if its true and i doubt it. i also heard one of cashmoneys new artist dissed QB on that song with lil wayne, mack 10, baby, and the other dude. could anyone tell me who the fuck is on tommy boy records? cause on song number 3 on the violater cd nore disses it. oh and manny dont call anyone a monkey that shit is racist.

Hey Manny, I ended dogg. Yous the one being childish. Yeah, I said peeps in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, but I only said that cause you said I gotta lot to learn. That's what you think? Whatever, just keep it to your self, pay me no mind. Ok, you got the last word, you said I keep running my mouth. Can we drop this now? And you can save the lessons too. And I said that about Rakim and Dre. Cuz from EPMD said he heard that they were (Dre and Ra) trying to work out something. I don't really like Ra, but that is what I heard. Oh yeah, the reason why I say "song Cry" is my fave is because I can relate to it. That last verse... we probably all can. LOL. I give it to Jigga right there, he's spittin' the truth. That's your fault, how many times you forgiven me?/How was I to know that you was plain sick of me?/I know the way I was livin was whack/But you don't get a igga back like that/I'm a man with pride, you don't do s--- like that/You don't just pick up and leave and leave me sick like that/You don't throw away what we had, just like that/I was just fu--- them girls, I was gon' get right back. See, that man needs to bring it this way ALL the time.

chubby checker and the fat boys - doing the twist peeps don't diss that shit jigga

Hey Big J. That wasn't Hillis, I said that about BIG. I can respect that he never came back after Pac called him out, but you gotta apply that attitude to everybody. He didn't and that was a punk move. (Just like Jay) The song is called "Get Money." Charlie Baltimore is in it and she plays Faith; she's looking just like Faith in it. Plus B.I.G says some things about her in the Flow, like "Tattoo on titty sayin' B.I.G." Only Faith has that tat as far as I know. And Tommy Boy is the label that Naughty by Nature was on back in the day. I don't know who else was on there.

Jay is tha hotest like he said" holding it down six summers damn" Second is jada.Nas should have never came out tha mouth wit that b.s. Stillmatic.Jay straight carried tha man. If I was him i'll climb in a hole. boyyeeee

lets go off subject a little bit,I want your opinion on this one? Who do you think is the best producer,between these people.If I forgot anyone include them in you vote.

Timberland Dr.Dre Suge Night Manny Fresh Swizz Beats Jermaine Dupri

These are just examples you don't have to chose these particular people, but you can.Also say why they are the best to you.We all know that having a hard beat is essential to having a hard song.

Holla Back, everyone answer this one! Hollywood

Timberland Dr.Dre Suge Night Manny Fresh Swizz Beats Jermaine Dupri

Ok, Jermaine Dupri acts too much like p diddy(always dancing in his artist videos) i dont like manny fresh because all his beats sound the same and cashmoney sucks, and like i said before FUCK SUGE KNIGHT, dr dre is ALRIGHT, id have to say its a tie between Timbaland and Swizz beatz.

haha and id like to hear gayz free style lol

As to the discussion on the best producer, Timbo, hands down. P.Diddydaddydumbass can't talk shit, JD can't say anything but "O" and "Uh-Huh", and as for the rest. NO. And back to the Jay-Z/Nas beef. I heard a couple of tracks off Stillmatic and they are hot. BUT there are a couple of hot joints on Nastradamus, that don't make it a good album. I hope it will be so Nas can get off of Hovas ass. And after Benie cracked a bottle over Jada's head at a recent party, I got another good reason to tell Karl to kiss my ass! And it's the University of Gloucester-fuckin-shire!

hahah where the fuck did you hear that shit? cause i can tell its not true

I heard that shit from my cousin who works for the Source's offices in London. There you go, 1-zip.

I'm not trying to start anything, but why would the Source have any office over in London? They sell a lot of rap over there? I doubt if there is any truth to Beans hitting my man with a bottle. It may be true but that's how rumors get started. If I see it in Vibe or the Source, maybe it will hold a little more weight with me, but they print the false stuff too. I gotta say Puff is one of the best. Hear me out. I liked his first CD, but not too much after that, but anyway, he makes people hot. It's one thing to make B.I.G hot because he already has a tight flow; so I guess that would be kinda easy, but Mase, Black Rob, that 1st LOX CD. These are not the best rappers, but he made all of these people known. And then you gotta look at how he has signed R&B, rap, pop and even some rock. What other label can say they did all that? Not many. Plus he introduced us to some of the greats i.e B.I.G, Jodiec, Mary J. He ain't the best beat maker, or flower, but when it comes to the biz side of it, I say he's one of the best.

i hear you, but one thing, London aint shit compared to the Cotswolds

You're right Qoolout. There is no London Source office. That dumb bloke is full of shit.

"My poetry's deep/I never fell/nas's raps should be locked in a cell/it aint hard to tell" excerpt form "it aint hard to tell" Illmatic. Life ills/

"My poetry's deep/I never fell/nas's raps should be locked in a cell/it aint hard to tell" from "it aint hard to tell" Illmatic, and "Life ills,poison my body/i used to say "fuck mic skills/i never prayed to God i prayed to Gotti" D'evils reasonable doubt.I can go one and one and type their lyrics from the top of my head all day, but these two excerpts are the ones that stick to my mind the most They're both ill in their own right. It goes to show that as far as lyrical brillance, they are on top. Any way, im going to my top ten greatest mc's of all time(D.O.A)in no particular order: Jay-Z, Rakim, KRS-One, Nas, Redman,L.L Cool J (yes i said LL Cool J), 2-Pac, Biggie, Scarface, and either DMX or eminem. if Big L was still alive he could have squeezed into my list too, cuz he would have been on Rocafella pourin out hits outshining Memphis Geek and Beani Siegel. I mean no disrespect

ALLRIGHT BEST PRODUCER,DJ PREMIER-SOME HOT ASS BEATS,THE ALCHEMIST(HE DID THE BEAT FOR "WE GONNA MAKE IT")AND I KNOW YALL FEELIN THAT SONG DONT FRONT,AND THE NEPTUNES-ALL OF A SUDDEN EVERYBODY WANTS TO GET ON THE NEPTUNES DICK FROM BRITNEY SPEARS TO JAY-Z,DOES ANY OF YALL KNOW THEIR FIRST BEAT THAT MASE SONG "WHY YOU OVER THEIR LOOKING AT ME".BUT THE RAPPER THAT REALLY BROUGHT THEM OUT WAS NOREAGA- "SUPERTHUG","OH NO","GRIMEY".ANYWAY QOOLOUT DO YOU LIKE JADAKISS BECAUSE IT SEEMS EVERYBODY FROM PHILLY AINT LIKING HIM ANYMORE CUZ OF BEANIE SIGELS BITCH ASS.BUT I HEARD THAT STORY ABOUT THE BOTTLE ON JADAKISS HEAD IT WAS BY ONE OF BEANIES MEN.AM OUT.ONE!

BIG L ON ROCAFELLA I DIDNT KNOW THAT.BUT I KNOW ROCAFELLA SIGNED SHAHEED THE POSTER BOY(FREESTYLE FRIDAY CHAMPION)HES HOT TOO CHECK OUT HIS SINGLE "JURRASIC HARLEM",CAMRON,AND THEY TRYED WITH M.O.P. BUT THEY FAILED.AND RUMORS ARE THAT THERE AFTER CORMEGA.AM OUT.ONE.

LOX, you can't tell? Yeah, of course I like JADA. He's one of the best right now if you ask me. I'm not from Philly, but I don't know if they are hatin' on him right now or not. Like I said before, he killed Beans in that little diss battle. But yeah I like him...it seems like you and I are the only two that reconize this man's skill. Holla

until nas's album drops jadakiss IS the best right now. and i didnt see one shot of gayz in Big L's last video.. oh well. man all the neptunes beats sound the same im tellin you, rayj's first video "wait a minute" was by neptunes and he has another video out i dont know the name but the beats are almost identical. and with 300million dollars i could make fuckin Gary Coleman the next good rap star or even a damn pop singer lol. yeah every time i hear a damn fake internet story its always "my friend told me" or "my cousin says" damn bullshit. i think there should be a newyork complamation album (minus gayz) that would be sweat i could picture one of the songs having nas,jada, and mobb deep on it.

"Salute Me", "The General"

So you call yourself god mc J-Hova/drunk the glass of blasphemy and forgot to pray over/your games over/crossed the warpath of a brave soldier/you're a makeover/my protege trying to "take over"/I was the shepard that led you/but you bit the hand that fed you/YOU MAD CAUSE SINCE I MET YOU I NEVER DID RESPECT YOU/and as hard as it seems you know I fathered your dreams/you's a groupie always begging to be a part of my team/another case of a boy and his teacher/I was the first to poison your speakers/so kill all that noise you preaching/I understand/all your plans to underhand/aired threats of you pulling my card next summer jam/let me make this clear hova/YOU HAD MY LEFT OVAS/she told me your little problem of the night when you slept over/but that's another subject homey/nigga you phohy/I'm coming to collect the debt from the years you owe me/so what you capitalized.....only cause I allowed you/I'm taking aim at your dome/and reclaiming my throne....

How you planned on facing/the half man half amazing/Don't need a fam, Nas is a one man invasion/claim you hot, but you flopped with Roc la Familia/cause real recognize real and your not familiar/call yourself gangsta, but you were begging for pardon/that night in Carbon/when the terror squad flipped on your squadron/Tried to front on their checks/till Pun put the gun to your chest/You said yourself god, "NAS IS ONE OF THE BEST"/Don't need to search for some dirt to expose you/I leave it to my flow to dispose you/when I oppose you/This is it I'm callin' ya/come out and play like "warriors"/studied my blueprint then pieced together your formula/guess the knowledge I speak to deep to follow/that's why your stomach to weak to swallow/The real truth that Nas is/the greatest of all timers/**** "skeletons", I keep only weaponry in my closets.

Check out the new Source with my dun Nas on the cover. Every one go out and cop STILLMATIC on the 4th of December it will be worth your while.

A,yo this is Hollywood once again changing the subject.This time I bring info on the forum.remember a little while back I ask about 50 cent the rapper who got beef with Jay-z.Well I found some dirt about him a lightweight.And for you who didn't know much about him just as much as I did I pasted an article from this website: http://members.tripod.lycos.de/adm/popup/targeted/roadmapcat-1.shtml It's an old article from 2000 but for those that know about him aready you don't need to read any further than this line! If you want more info go to this place and click on the 50 cent picture on the right of the screen.Here is the article.

Ja Rule vs. 50-Cent

Rapper Ja Rule and members of his crew the Murderers, were allegedly involved in a stabbing incident wherein rapper Fifty Cent and two others in his clique were the victims.

According to the New York police department, three unnamed men were taken to New York's Roosevelt Hospital Thursday night (March 23) with stab wounds. The stabbing occurred at the New York recording studio, the Hit Factory. One 21-year-old victim was stabbed in the arm, a 24- year-old victim was stabbed in the stomach, and a 28-year-old victim was stabbed in the hand. The police had no names for the assailants and no arrests have been made.

click pic to read another article about that topic Ja Rule's label Def Jam had no comment regarding his alleged involvement in the stabbing.

Sources say the incident was apparently retaliation for a beef between Ja Rule and Fifty Cent that occurred at a recent concert in Atlanta. Apparently, Fifty Cent struck Ja Rule and the alleged stabbing was an act of vengeance.

Some attribute the ill will between Fifty Cent and Ja Rule to Fifty Cent's "How To Rob" single, which was released last year. In the song, Fifty Cent fantasizes about robbing many prominent rappers and R&B stars, including Ja Rule's friends and labelmates Jay-Z and DMX.

I also found out that Ja is dissing 50 Cent in his verse on Shit Gets Ugly off The Murderers album, he raps "May the law be with niggaz who shout my name in vain/ I'm a Murderer motherfucker, you nigga, loose change/ I get head in the whip probably from your bitch/ Cuz she's a hoe like yourself and it's making me sick".

Other rappers are beefing with 50 Cent too, Big Pun (Rest In Peace) said in My Turn off of Yeeeah Baby, "And to the 50 Cent rapper, very funny, get your nut off/ Cause in real life, you don't know/ I'll blow your motherfuckin head off". And in Jay-Z's song It's Hot off Life And Times Of S. Carter Vol. 3 he says, "I'm about a dollar, what the fuck is 50 Cents?".

And in Sticky Fingaz' song Jackin Beats, Sticky says, "My Sticky Fingaz turn fists across ya jaw/ Beat ya ass in real life at the source awards/ The real Fifty from Brooklyn, God bless he got outed/ You just a fake clown who front and rout about it/ I got a new deal/ For a few mill/ Shoot to kill/ You fruity like Dru Hill/ You spare change you ain't even half a man cuz/ Matter of fact you ain't even half the man ya moms was".

Keep talking and disscussing about who is your favorite producer.I just got my hands on this article and I wanted to share it with yall and see what yall thought about it.

Holla back! Hollywood

O.K, Puffy does make shit hot, but in all fairness, do you really think he could do it with Bubba Sparxxx? NO! And I don't know why theres an office in London, but thats where my cous works. They do sell a lot of raps over there though. If you want, check out the new joint by Roots Manuva, Listen to him, he can compete with anyone the states has (well maybe not everyone!). But thats enuff about that. Heres another name for the producer discussion shit, Damon Dash. If you don't agree with that, fine. Anyway, don't they got a petting zoo in the cotswalds?

DAMN, someones been lying to me, I feel, kinda, DAMN! I guess my cous is homeless and sleeping in a cardboard box somewhere! He's not the only place I heard the beans/jada shit from though. To be truthful wit you, i dont know if its true, but its what I heard.

i dunno, but if beans really did hit jada wit a glass bottle, he's acknowledging dat jada has dissed him royally, and he couldnt stand the heat, so he got outta the kitchen and got the extinguisher (metaphorically speaking) and took out the fire, but dont think for one minute that jada will let that slide, and dont even think that STYLES will think that shit will slide. jada will retaliate wit words, but styles will wit guns. Nore and styles, those some wild niggas. Styles bout to blow up too. Remember who u heard it from first. One

That 50 cent rap is dope. The rappers he went after coulda shot back much more creatively.

Who made Budda hot? Tim right? First of all, I'm not even in agreement that Budda is hot, but I like that one song I heard called Ugly. But anyway, Tim did that. Timbo does have some of the bset beats out there. I'm not even into beats like that, but I gotta give it to him right there. But I'm saying his beats made hot people hotter. Jay-Z, the Lox, and whoever else, but he doesn't make the weak rappers shine. Look at Missy, he does her beats sometimes, but that does not seem to help her as a rapper, or Magoo, or even his own solo CD. Point is, Tim's beats make the hot hotter, but he has yet to make a weak rapper hotter. Now Puff has made plently of people shine, who otherwise would have failed in my opinion. And as for Dash, who has he helped? Jay would flow with or without Dash. And Bleek and Beans and all the other ROC peeps are okay, but they are not even close to being hot.

"Sunkiss like a soda" was hot , but "I had too many beanie Macs" was hotter.But anyway, Camron is signed to the Roc. I hope that will rejuvenate his career as far as the commercial mass. Stillmatic, as far as I know from some songs i heard is hot. Memphis Bleek's flow gets worst every time. Time for J Hov to use his ghost-writing skills to work. I'm from Waterbury, CT, and theres' cats out here way better than Memphis Bleek lyrically. If only they had the exposure and luck (yes I said luck) that Memp had.I'm not hatin, because I have everything Bleek has (cars, money, house, etc) so there's no need to hate. In a matter of fact, there's alot of underground rappers way better than memp (Mad Skills, Headrush, Khrist, etc)It's all about timing and who u know in the business as well.

YO J-DOLO I COULDNT AGREE WITH YOU MORE STYLES SAYS SOME ILL ASS SHIT.AND I KNOW HES A WILD ASS NIGGA.HES ALSO FRIENDS WITH NORE.IF YALL KNOW ABOUT THEM THEY MADE A SONG WITH THE HOTTEST BEAT OUT RIGHT NOW ITS CALLED "COME THRU".IN THIS JOINT HE SAYS "I SHOOT ANYTHING I GET MY FUCKIN HANDS ON/ TO LEAVE YOU COWARD NIGGAS BLOODY LIKE A TAMPON/" THAT SHIT WAS ILL.AND HE SAYS SOMETHING IN A KNEW SWIZZ BEATZ SONG CALLED "SWIZZIN FOR BEATS" WITH SHYNE.HE SAYS "YALL REALLY AINT BEEFING/WANNA TALK TO GOD THEN MY NINE IS THE PHONE LINE TO REACH HIM/WHEN I HEARD THAT I WAS LIKE THIS NIGGA IS ILL.BUT OUTTA THE LOX FIRST IS JADA THEN STYLES THEN SHEEK.ANYWAY JA RULE GOT HIS ASS WUPPED BY 50 CENT HIS PUNK ASS IS NOW SINGING AND WRITING R&B LYRICS FOR OTHER SINGERS.HE TURNED PUNK WHEN THAT PIECE OF SHIT 3:36 CAME OUT.AND HAS ANYBODY REALIZED THAT GAY-ZS LITTLE EMPIRE IS GROWING.FIRST IT WAS HIM,BLEEK,SIGEL,AND AMIL.BUT THEY DROPPED AMILS WACK ASS.AND IN CAME FREEWAY,CRIS&NEEF,OSHINO,NOW CAMRON AND SOME OTHER NO NAME RAPPERS.NAS MIGHT BE A ONE MAN ARMY BUT HE HAS TO HAVE HIS LITTLE CLICK OF RAPPERS LIKE THE FIRM.ANYWAY WHAT HAPPENED TO MANNY AND HILLIS............TURN THE FUCKIN BEAT UP.........AM OUT.ONE.

yeah that song on the violater cd with nore and styles is sweet, chrorus is a little annoying, i also like the one with prodigy and jadakiss on it.

Gayz is the only halfway decent rapper on ROC. one more thing who the bloody fuck is nelly talkin about on that gay ass #1 song. he says somethin about someone trying to copy his style but i dont see anyone making fucking orgasim sound while they rap.

I've been looking at this responses for about 5 min. and I wana say that I think B.I.G. is the G.O.A.T. and that Jadakiss has been the hottest in the game since the lox dropped "Money, Power, and Respect". Also the lox are the best group out there. No other group has the kind of combination the lox has. Jada has the clever punchlines, Styles P. has the deep real lyrics that makes you think, and Sheek has that crazy "I don't give F**k' attitude. Does anybody agree with me or am I all by my lonely on this?

I think nas and jay-z are both very good artists. They have two different styles. I personally like jay-z more that's just because he has had more songs that i like.I think that their feud is cool (another way to make $) I just hope they keep it on the c.d's and it doesnt end in anything tragic

Whether you like it or not, what i am about to tell you is true, no rumour shit. I think though that the best way to explain this is through the words of one of my boys, understand this, he aint no rapper, but he givin it a go! So if you dont like it dont complain to me, if you do, give him a contract;

Now I got the proof/this is truth, i be tellin/while y'all haters was yellin'/Jay ring shots to yo' melon/That "you know who line"/on the joint "Takeover"/who fucked the baby mama/the one, Jay HOVA/So Nas reply wit some shit about the firm/when he gonna realise that he missed his turn/commish of the rap game/just like Howard Stern/when Esco gonna learn/HOVA the king/Blueprint/the return/So stop the promotion of the shit STILLmatic/fake thug rhymin' bout AK's, automatics/like DRE/hold on, who wrote that shit/JAY

You may not believe me but its true, HOVA has been bangin' Nas's babymama, still dont believe me, then go to http://www.hot104.com/hotwire/10501137a.html nuff said. R.I.P. Ose.

Jigga hit Nas' baby's mama. So what? Should I give him more respect now? Who cares besides Nas, Jay and that female? I don't care if Jigga man is sexing Nas himself. And once again Jay is copying my man Pac by even bringing this info to light. Think about it.

And another thing, who believes that he's still hitting her, while she is messing with Nas? If you believe that...Oh well. But on another aspect, your boy, or you probably, whoever wrote those lines, he has some skills. For real, I liked it, but I would suggest you flow about your self or something like that, instead of making rhymes about Jigga. Still it was pretty good. Joe-Joe, you know that ain't the only diss Jada put out, right? He got a whole song for Beans. Holla

I aint sayin nas was still wit her cos he wasnt, i just thought it adds another little twist to the beef, all that said and done, it looks like the ROC is buildin up quite a team, i still like Amil tho R.I.P Ose

You do realize that Amil.....really sucks....

Yo! i hate to bring up old shit but MANNY MANNY MANNY.... youza immature punk ass faggot, and i hate to have to post such a thing but, i gotcha muthafuckin dictionary right here bitch! I ain't appreciate you dissin my dawg hogan like that you busta as punk. he was sayin that beef IN rap gets people killed which is true to an extent... but if you disagree be mature and say so but don't come out the mouth with those bullshit disses in your posts.... Punk muthafucka! LESSON 1) KEEP YOUR LESSONS TO YOUR GODDAMN SELF! pussy!

Yeah i read that shit he put up there too! it november 12th... that shit hogan wrote was tight and then MANNY just dissed him for no reason... that shit was immature! NA NA NA NA NA Manny got dissed out! looll lololo l o oolol ol ol ol ol ! Good Post donillmatic! !!!!! haha haa h ha hah aaoh oi ho ohohoho holo llo o lo lolololo!!!!!......

Yes I do, I do realise that Amil really sucks, BUT, please hear me out now, she got a unique voice and a nice ass. When shes on a joint you know it aint gonna have a lot of lyrical flair or even ability (unless Jay is on it) but it is gonna be different. HA! as I write this im thinkin to myself, MAN, IM TALKIN SHIT! So fuck it. come to think of it, she is wack. Anyway, dont stop with the producer shit, i like it. But no.1 still gotta be Timbo.

By the way y'all, I heard a live tape of Jay-Z last night, and for all of y'all who said he cant freestyle, I bet you havent even heard him kick it before. No.2 producer: Swizz Beats. R.I.P Ose

DAMN! 3 messages in a row! I just been reading some old stuff up on this thread, the whole Manny(Anny)/Qoolout shit made me laugh man, maybe we should be talkin about you two instead of Nas and Jay. Anyway it got me thinkin about the top five rappers, past and present etc. So, in no particular order: 1) Jay-Z (theres been enough debate, so i aint got any more to say) 2) 2PAC (none of you can doubt me on this one) 3) KRS-1 4) The late great B.I.G (one word - lyricist), and finally 5) hmmm... even though i been hatin' on him cos of the Jay beef, the performance on Illmatic puts Nas in there. I'm gonna have to give P.DiddyDaddyFucker a dishonourable mention in the lyricist catagory. Not only did he rip the beat EXACTLY from Public enemy on "public enemy number one", but he ripped most of the words EXACTLY as well. And if any of y'all doubt me, listen to "Yo! Bum rush the show" that public enemy dropped in '86.

Wassup! I'm writing from France. Here people don't even know about Jay-z,Nas or Mobb Deep.People only listen to Eminem,Snoop and Dre.Iknow much about hip-hop and I can say that for now Hova's the best and he's ripped Prodigy and Nas.But I think Nas is gonna change da game with Stillmatic.Mobb Deep was great with Infamous but now they over,even Infamy won't be as dope as the shit. In France people who're really into hip-hop aren't like you americans:people check a sound coz it's dope and not coz it's Brooklin or Queens or Long Beach or whatever. You niggaz should do the same!

Hay manny where are you,have not herd from you sence the 12th of november.It seems you make enimies every time you make a messege on this board and I want to hear your opinion on my question I asked on the 13th.I'v been waiting on a reply for who is your favorite producer? I think every regular on this message board has answrerd except for you? Come on voice your opinion,I'd like to hear it!

I've read just about all the posts on here. I say 1 of the best from blueprint is All I Need. Jay just rips it up, simple as that. And one of the best gotta be Swizz cause all of his stuff so far is tight. And to 3:16, that Anny vs. Qoolout was one of the funniest things I've saw on here. So like 3:16 said, we should talk about them. How did that start? Who do you guys think won it? Hov

What up my niggas. I read in the latest issue of XXL that Cormega is in talks with ROC-A-FELLA to join their so called "Dynasty". Well anyways, I'm pretty upset about this because, First, being that Cormega is from Queens Bridge (like Nas, Mobb Deep, etc..) and Damn near everybody in queens bridge hate the Rocafella niggas, ain't he gonna make more enimies than friends? Second, he turning his back on his hood (QB) to join the enemies camp (the Roc) just to make a few dollars. Third, Cormega is by far one of the rawest Emcees to come out in a while (Check out The Realness, or The Testament(Bootleg.) So him joing the Roc camp would be the best thing that ever happend to the dyansty. He'll provide some balance between the mediocrity of Beenie and "M-Easy" and Gay-Z. So that being said, I was wondering how yall niggas felt about Cormega joing the Roc. I personally don't like it, cause hanging around with "Jah-hova" and "M-easy" will probably make that nigga go comercial and he might change is name to "C-money" or some rocafella bullshit. I know a nigga is trying to make it, but I just hope he don't sacrifice his individuality. One

the only reason why this beef is good for hip hop is because mabey nas will get hungry again and come with the real.cause if STILLMAIC aint got nothing like the lyrical fire of ILLMATIC nas in my book will be forver written off as the mc who robbed his real fans by tricking us with a misleading album title.CAUSE IF YOU GONNA CALL YOUR ABLUM STILLMATIC YOU KNOW WHAT THE FUCK WE ARE EXPECTING TO HEAR (ONLY-REAL-SHIT) . i swear if he pulls some nastradumas shit on me i'll never buy another album by that nigga. p.s fuck jay'z jahova iceberg jigga jay peco (bitin off the wu by switch his name)

nas's illest shit list fast life song verbal intercours song life's a bitch song to my song and a whole lotta other shit ghost face new album is hot image jigga and a ghost battle

Hello Fellas, some people had a lot to say since I have been gone, but the champ doesn't stay gone for long. So who do I address first??..Hollywood, my young hermano, to me the best producer would have to be PremierW/Gangstarr. Ofcousre there are other producers as well and I am sure you know them....Kareem Johnson? OHHHH papa you sure you want to get in to this??.You Monkey!!....RealDeal? What are you babbling about?? what's your sorry ass story??...Paul Nzayo I ahve been in France for a while, one of my favorite rapers is MC SOLAR, what do you think about him?....To everybody else my Lessons will continue, till I decide that you cheerleaders do not need any more....HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE, PATRIA o MUERTE.....Manny Guevara

Now no disrespect to Manny, but at the time I think Qoolout won that battle, yeah you held your own Manny, but Q just kept comin and comin and comin and... well, hell. I been to France too, spent 3 weeks there, and yeah they do got a hip hop culture, Solaar is hot (at least his beats are), but i cant understand a word that boy is sayin'. Movin' on, Cormefega allready has beef wit most of QB, Nas disses him in a track i cant seem to remember, but theres a line about "as corny as corn-mega". Anyway, the ROC dont need him right now (in my opinion). What I want to know is what y'all think about ghost writing, i think theres mans out there who are gettin no credit, but that its thier own fault. If they were to get up in front of the mic and kick it themselves, they could be in the money. But imagine how many albums HOVA would have released if all the track he wrote was in his name. R.I.P. Ose

Whats the dilly, Playas? Im trying to get in on this. I have been reading some of the past messages, this is a funny board. The Manny- Qoolout battle was heated. I agree with you 3:16, that Qoolout kept coming but I gots to give it to Manny. I think He is on a different level than Qoolout in what he was saying.but whatever. Yo Nas is the illest, December his shit is gonna drop and nobody can stop that.Peace.One.-Steve

HEY MANNY, what the fuck did i tell you about using the insult monkey? better quit that racist bull you faggot.

& while we're at it, can we stop with the anti-gay insults too?

Hey 3:16, I respect your opinion, dogg. You gotta respect a man who can admit when he's wrong, like with that Amil thing. And that Mega diss that you were speaking of is at the very top of this page; it's the last line in the verse. Steve, I respect your opinion, too. Of course I disagree, but I see what you are saying. Manny, I got nothing bad to say about you, I'm glad we squashed it, but I'm just wondering who is MC Solar. Is he underground, or what? I think somebody else on here mentioned him too. Somebody let me know. And lastly, did anyone hear DMX's new CD? I was thinking about getting it; let me know what's up if you have it. Holla

hey Q i heard it sucked so i never bought it, but they could be wrong.. BTW did anyone see the new mobb deep song on bet today?

Big J, why don't you read the statments that I made before about the words that I choose to use and what I mean by them when I direct it towards someone.. pick up a banana and begin your first lesson, you Ape. is that better? and your obsession with Makaveli and the Outlawz is a bit to extreme...Qoolout, MC Solaar is from France, who was real good a few years back and is still nice. Beats,Flow everything was tight, but it's kinda hard if you dont know the language, but I suggest you pick it up and give it a shot, you might like it...Steve, I hope you saw both points, not just mine. but take it easy with that Nas infatuation. HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE, PATRIA o MUERTE.....Manny Guevara

Cormega? On the Roc? Is Jay crazy?! Why add that weak ass nigga to yo camp? Cormega and Memphis Bleek gon come out with a song called "Complete Doo Doo." And then there'll be a remix called "Total Boo Boo." C'mon, Cormega combines weak delivery, average flow, and aiight lyrics. That nigga ain't too impressive.

And then I hear more Stillmatic/"Nas will return" garbage. The nigga ain't Jesus. Nas is disappointment after disappointment. For all of you Nas fans who can't seem to recognize when a nigga has fallen off: Nastradamus (the song as well as the album).

Did someone say something positive about Amil's skills on the mic? Did I mention she would do the hook on Bleek and Mega's two songs? Amil, Cormega, and Memph Bleek need to take some notes from Robert Smith: retire.

Oh yeah, Timbaland is the hottest producer out, with Dre following his heels. But that list of producers is biased to popular/northern producers. True Swizz, Manny, Neptunes, JD, Rza, etc. got it goin on, but don't sleep on that nigga Pimp C from UGK. He been makin sweet beats for a while and I'll put his shit up to Timbo and D-R-E any day. Check out "Diamonds & Wood" or "Look At Me" or any of they shit. UGK is hot as hell. Plus, Earthtone and Organized Noise (the cats that do Outkast's beats) are nice, too. But really, Pimp C is hot as Timbaland in my book.

Manny! Bienvenido! Donde fuiste? Hasta La Victoria Siempre!!!

"And I'm out this muthafucka!" (got that from Bernie Mac)

Sorry i've been away. Anyway I've been reading everything, and this kinda turned into a Quoo vs Manny beef (sorry if I spelled ya name wrong) Q got dat nigga though, no offense to Manny.Any how I couldn't have agree more with whoever said that Cormega shouldnt join the Roc, only cuz of da beef between QB and the ROC. I hope Cormega knows what he's doin. He better not sell out doing some "happy Annie Beats" like Jay. Im not dissin Jay cuz Jay could rap over any beat and "make it a hot song", but Cormega is the streetz and to me he's more street than anyone in the Roc. The "realness" was kinda tight, even though he waited too long to come out,but please Cormega, for the sake of your street credibility (If only you knew how much love you have in the streets in Connecticut, NY and NJ), dont do any "sell out songs" I dont care how much jigga is payin you. Do youreslf. We all know how you bitched out Nature, took his chain AND was rockin it in front of his house. And stay outta jail. And dont fall into the "rock ice rock ice rock ice"catagory. Keep it real and youll still get love from the streets. Trust me. Nas's stillmatic better be as tight as his album title. I heard songs and he's still ill, but the album I heard was an unfinished project, so we'll see when it hit da stores.....Jadakiss, one word, SKILLZ! Style :Raw and uncut.anyway i'm out. be back soon. One.

OK, how y'all doing? Qoolout, MC Solaar is a rapper from France, he's tight, his beats are tight, and if you can get a translation of the lyrics, they're tight to. Big J, the new shit by DMX is, just OK, theres some real hot joints on it, but as y'all know, that does NOT make a good album. Joe P, you right man, Cormega don't belong in the ROC. Now I aint sayin he cant hold his own, but I dont personally think he would fit in. But thats my opinion. If y'all want to listen to a practical unknown, who has flow and who has toght as fuck beats, listen to Roots Manuva, all the way from the British block. His new shit is called "Run come save me". You could describe him as a cross between Emininem and Busta Rhymes, but I guess the best way for y'all to feel this is if I show you what he's talkin about;

Swigging that deep root juice/Now we deh 'pon it boost/Set them spirit them loose/Go 'head go slash up the noose/With conclusive proof of both the truth/The right/'cos whether we hitch hike or push bike/or travel kinda trash/manifest that/with wholesome roots rap/manifest that yeah/I do my zing way/Ain't nutten else I know/Gone up in the life/With this I-ragged born flow/Squeeze the pain from my belly and set my soul free/Travel over ocean land and sea/Faced nuff stress and difficulty/Flung back from the brink/Gwan'ing kind of stink/We don't give a frig about what them fools think/Frig your network/Our dett work will speak for itself/Proof of the trophy/And the champion belt/Come sun come rain come hailstone pelt.

If you can't understand it its cos some of it is Jamaican and some is UK slang shit, but if you need a translation, let me know. R.I.P. Ose

I really dont know much about Cormega, and his skills, and this message board is kinda mixed up between some think he is hard and some dont.My only statement to that is if QB don't like him espesially the bonified leader of queens bridge Nas then he has no reason to still be allined with them.But I am not sure if going to the roc is the best alternitive.I think Jay is tring to get some warriors who will stand with him in this on going battle between him and Nas.And I figure from what I read in the past thredz Cormega has a prominate street image that is an advantage to Jay dispite his talent being good or bad.It's all academic from there!Jay will be fetured on 40% of the album,a hell of a lot of T.V time,you will see him on TRL talking with Carson Daley and so forth.He really has no choice if you ask me.It is a struggle trying to put your self out to the public,and Cormega has not done that yet.Look at me for example I have not listen to him that much and I'm constantly at the store listening to rap.So more than I think people want to admit it the streets can only take you so far then you have to give in to the popularity of the suburbs to get on their awards shows.All rappers may want to stay gutter but that can only get you popularity for so long.The suburbs make the Jay-z's,and the 2pac's, and Jadakiss's. It sound a little dumb at first but think about who made them that big, when you go to an overseas country they know who they are.And for some reason this applies to the rap genre.You don't see Britney Spears in your CD collection do you! I know this has more than likely been said before but it had to be addressed about cormega.Insted of rapping about how the streets made them they need to say the streets started me and the suburbs gave me the grammy.

Y'all should get the December issue of The Source. Theres a whole article on Nas and his beef with Jay-Z. It really explains everything good. It also talks about the 2pac feuds and the Death Row shit with Suge Knight, Snoop, Dre, 2pac and all that. But basically the Jay-Z-Nas beef wuz started by Jay-Z at that '97 Summer Jam concert. My opinion of all this is that its sorta funny but Jay-Z is the king of New York and no matter what Nas does he can't beat him. Jay-Z's awesome and the blueprint is a fuckin amazing cd!!! Oh ya, funny lil thing, Jay-Z messed around with Nas' girl hahahaha. lataz xox

yo i gotta question, what do u think bout 2pac and if hes coming back???? i think he is for sure...2003 baby...

To all my Constituents and Minions, Happy Thanksgiving....HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE.....MANNY GUEVARA

My God. This thread is well on its way to developing a sub-culture all to itself.

Happy Thanksgiving to all! Hope you get fat just like me today! Finally,represent anybody who rooting for Detroit. They need your prayers for their first win!

I'm gonna say happy thanksgiving to y'all even though I dont do it myself I know peeps who do. yep, that Dec edition of the Source is tight, and after shamelessly trying to promote my man Roots on this thread he got a little bit of recognition. Trust me, hes a rude boy. Anyway, now that Suge is out and tryin to rep Tha Row, we gonna have some proper shit to talk about again. That ma thinks he's going to get back up top again. hmmm...

Hey I know its pretty much done and dusted and all of that, but back on to best producer, here's a new name for y'all; Adam F. He the one who did that "Blow yo' horn" joint with Redman. R.I.P. Ose

Oh Yeah! before I forget this shit, theres lyric off of "The Rulers Back" on the Blueprint. It's explained somewhere in the Source, but if you dont got that here it is;

I help you out, heres what you do/You gonna need a wide lens cos thats a ver' big shoe/You got a couple of /but you dont have a /the situation is /I'ma keep it /Fuckin wit me, you gotta drop /cos if you gonna cop something you gotta cop f'real

Call me a crazy ass muthafucka, but it looks to me as though he's talkin about Beanie Sigel, DJ Clue, Memphis Bleek, Rell, and Amil, hmmm... Shit, y'all probably know this shit already, but if you didn't, there you go. And Amils been dropped aint she. R.I.P. Ose

FUCK! the words didn't .com out right. MUTHAFUCKERS! DAMN! OK! Here we go again, damn this fuckin' internet shit!

I help you out, heres what you do/You gonna need a wide lens cos thats a ver' big shoe/You got a couple of "Beans"/but you dont have a "Clue"/the situation is "Bleek"/I'ma keep it "Rell"/Fuckin wit me, you gotta drop "Amil"/cos if you gonna cop something you gotta cop f'real

One other thing i just found out. During the week of the WTC attacks. The Jay-Z joint copped 400,000! Damn! R.I.P. Ose

FUCK JAY-Z. HE'S TOO COMMERCIAL !!!!!! HE'S NO LONGER STREET. . . MOBB DEEP AND NAS WILL FUCKING SHOOT HIS BIG LIPPED ASS IF HE SET FOOT IN FUCKIN QUEENSBRIDGE. . . . JAY-Z IS IN THE ''POP'' CETEGORY. hE DOESNT EVEN TAKE HIS LYRICS FROM THE TOP LIKE NAS. . . HE FUCKIN WRITES !!!!!!!! FUCKIN FAG ! GAY-Z !!!!!!!!!!!

JAY-Z MIGHT HAVE MORE SALES BUT NAS IS LYRICALLY WAY MOE TALENTED AND ANYONE WHO REALLY KNOWS RAP CANT DENY

FUCK ALL YOU BANDWAGON RIDING FAGGOTS!!!!!!!!!!! JAY-Z IS FUCKING GAY !!!!!!!!

READ MY SHIT DROPPED ON SEPT. 25 ON THIS WEBSITE.

AND FUCK ALL YOU SHIT RAP LISTENING FAGS.

GO LISTEN TO P-DIDDY AND NELLY . . . THATS GAY-Z CATEGORY

Yo! Who the FUCK is you? You call yourself Stillmatic but you never was in the first place, FUCKER! Aint you heard the blueprint you jackass fuck! And what the fuck are you on sayin Nas would shoot Jay if he set foot in QB? Do you even think Nas still lives in QB? I seen all the Qoolout/Manny shit on this thread as i'm sure you have. That shit made mans laugh, and I got no problem in havin' them same mans laugh at you. You tryin to stick up for Esco? HUH? Tell me what hes done that stands out since Illmatic. Do not make me laugh at the too commercial shit you tryin to rip on hove. What the fuck is Nastradamus.

Motherfuckers/say that I'm foolish I only talk about jewels/Do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?/See I'm influenced by the ghetto you ruined/That same dude you gave nothin, I made somethin doin.

Tell me when Jay has ever written down lyrics (apart from when he writes for other rappers) and then maybe I'll respect your point of view. Until then bitch, get yo' mind right, and stop the fuckin bitchin'.

hit ya/back split ya/Fuck fist fights and lame scuffles/Pillow case to your face/make the shell muffle/Shoot your daughter in the calf muscle/Fuck a tussle/nickel-plated/Sprinkle coke on the floor, make it drug related/Most hate it

Jay-Z gets more sales cos he the best, simple. So Fuck you. I aint got no problem bringin it, have you, FAGGOT?

R.I.P. Ose

Ya 3:16 knows his shit. Jay-Z's lyrics are fuckin amazing just give it a chance and stop writing him off as gay and pop and shit just cuz of a couple of songs. The Blueprints a classic and u all know that even u die-hard fans of that Esco trash. Well no not necessarily trash he ain't all that bad but he can't compare 2 jigga. And to all you muh'fuckers who're sayin that Jay-Z ain't a battle rapper...ure contradicting ureselves. Cuz then ure goin and sayin how great his song Takeover is (which it fuckin is!) andtheres no way Nas can beat him at that and there ya go...hes battlin and hes good at it rite? Hell ya! And on The Ruler's Back, which is a wicked song, i'd noticed that stuff he said about Beanie, Bleek, Amil etc....whats he mean by it all tho other than the Amil part I don't get it...??? Holla.

OK CHECK OUT THESE NAS LYRICS AND RECOGNIZE THAT GAY-Z SHOULD STICK TO GREESY DICKS SMACK DAB BETWEEN THOSE ASS LIPS INSTEAD OF MIC HOLDIN

a yo i gunz from italy/smoke trees considerably/midstate and green it seems where all my niggas be/the ghetto misery/shootouts in liquor stores/a perpendicular angular clout war/police searchin up my lex over,who's petro?/my tech blows straight off the roof i test your respect yo/noone respect me they got me handcuffed, rough life/i just be up nights /breethin with scuffed nikes/pourin beers for my peoples under the stairs/these years i got they name in my swears/poppin cyrstal/like it's my fist child lickin shots holiday style/rockin steal sweaters wallibes down/ 24 karats countin cabage like the arabs/ the marriage of me and the mic is just like magic/elegant performance/bubble lex full insurance/guzzlin geunis shootin catchin cases concurant/IT'S NAS SEVEN HUNDERD WISE KING SOLOMON SIZE WE ON A RISE MY AND G GHETTO WISE GUYS/falucciano franky yayo bugsy segiel/ green papers with eagels from a trade thats illegal.

NOW POST SOME SHIT THAT GAY-Z SPIT THAT IS EVEN CLOSE TO SOME REAL SHIT LIKE ALL OF THE ABOVE .BITCHES

All you Jay-z luvas out there need to get real. Do you REALLY think this man can take Nas in a mic battle? C'mon! I like J and all, but what really seperates the 2 for me is substance. Nas has an abundance, even on his lesser albums, and Jay-z barely has any. Hell, The Blueprint is one of my favorite records this year, but the whole record is basically just him ridin' his own dick! Where's the depth? The only stab at makin' real sense comes on the title cut at the end of the record. Tell me, what in J's catalogue can even fuck with "I Gave You Power", "Life's a Bitch", "Black Girl Lost", "The World is Yours", the list goes on and on. To tell the truth, who'll win will more than likely be decided by production. If the production on "Stillmatic" matches or even slightly surpasses The Blueprint, then it's Game Ova for Hova. The production on The Blueprint is the best thing about it and Stillmatic will have to stand toe to toe with it to have an impact, but as far as the lyrical battle? Jay-z is fucked, no doubt in my mind and his crew ain't shit! It'll end in tears for the ROC. Peace.

Aiight, I read (beleive it or not) the majority of the posts on this thread. Well I admit I skipped a couple weeks but fuck it lol. So ya my posts b4 were quite a bit outta touch with whats been goin on so sorry bout that! 1st off i wanna say that the whole Manny/Anny vs. Qoolut(so sorry if i spelt it wrong!) and Hillis 3000 wuz hilarious. Manny wuz a pathetic idiot (sorry 2 say) Qoolut and Hillis 3000 were mature but funny about it all so ya, thx 4 the entertainment guyz ;) Also I know it wuz a while back but i wanna give my opinion about how people be thinkin hip-hop and rap are below everything else. I've seen a helluva lotta that shit and well thats what it is, shit. And what people be thinkin about others who listen 2 that music. i'll give it to y'all im a 16 yr old white girl who don't relate 2 much in a lotta the music i listen 2 but i love it still and especially the lyrics. A lot of it really is poetry and fuck those bastards who say rap is mindless and not poetry or wtv it wuz cuz it sure as hell can be. and yeah i love listening 2 all the stories u hear thru the music and about how different all these peoples lives (fabricated or not) are different from mine. and also all the pop fagot bf/gf shit pisses the fuck outta me and i don't wanna listen 2 that! But yeah so I'm really into hip-hop and rap and all and know about it too but then some people write me and other people like me off as posers because of it. Fuck u don't have 2 have grown up like jay-z did to listen 2 his goddamn music and i ain't trying 2 act like anything but myself. it pisses me off. but anyway enough of this shit... Oh ya and im Canadian. livin in Montreal actually (french rap...*shudder*) and i dunno if any of u have heard anything of Kardinal Offishall's. Canadian from T.O and really y'all should give him a chance. Alrite so his debut album ain't exactly 5 mics or nothin but his lyrics ain't too bad and ya know being his debut and all there isn't all that stuff most of u refer to as "commercial" on it. "Yo that kid nice/where he from tho?/T-dot (ohh)/Where the ice at? Oh I see underground MC" im sure his next album is gonna be sicker once he learns some more about the game. the guys got potential, y'all should check him out. peace.

Seriously folks. Nas...he's good lyrically. In my opinion his delivery leaves a lot to be desired. Plus, people don't bump Nas all over America, especially down heah in the South. But Nas...he's good. However...folks...seriously...none of you REALLY think Nas is fuckin with Jay-Z right now, do you? I mean, Nas had ONE good album. ONE. I've heard that Nas' lyrics are so much deeper than Jay's. Seriously, are they that much deeper? Come on...really... Nas has nothing on Jay at this point. Nothing. Nas is living (and soon to be dying) by Illmatic, and it's getting old. How many weak ass albums can that nigga come out with before his Illmatic acclaim wears off? I mean, I haven't heard BONE "Creepin On Ah Come Up" or Mobb Deep "The Infamous." I mean, you guys love Nas for ONE album that didn't even go gold, and in my opinion, ain't even in the top 10 albums of all time. Jay-Z has AT LEAST 3 albums as good as or better than Illmatic. AT LEAST! I really feel Jay when he asks, "Do you fools really listen to music?" I mean, do you? For the sake of argument, take away "Illmatic." What else has Nas done to be deserving of acclaim? What else? If I say it now, I've said it 30 times - Nastradamus erases everything good about the Illmatic. Jay-Z would never put his name on that garbage. It's probably cuz Jay has some fuckin musical sense to go along with his lyrical skills. So folks, really. I know y'all think Jay is pop. But that obviously shows me you haven't listened to his albums, cuz he has more street songs on every album than "pop" songs. And Nas has some pop songs, too. You love to call Jay-Z pop, but Nas has taken it there, too. Three words: "YOU OWE ME!" That was more pop than anything Jay has done. Ginuwine?! Why not have Sisqo in that muthafucka... But folks...really...you REALLY don't think Nas can fuck with Jay-Z right now, do you? Do you?

If you are going by who sold the most CD's, I'm with you, Jay got Nas. If you are going by who is better known, I'm with you, Jay wins. If you all are talking about more videos, the most airplay, all of that, than Jay wins. It's no contest. But all I'm saying, and have been saying for the longest is that that does not appeal to everyone. I believe that maybe that is what most rap fans like, but not all. Some people wanna hear songs that make you think or a song that makes you say, "let me rewind that last verse and study what he said." That's what some of us like and that is what Nas has. I'm not saying Jay can't do that. He has some stuff that makes me think, but I'm saying Nas has more. And overall, Nas' last CD was a disappointment, but it still had some deep tracks. I'm not saying it was a classic, but I don't think it was str8 doo either. I guess both of them did there share of pop stuff. Both have done tracks with Mariah Carey; she is pop. I got a few of MC's CD's and I found them under the pop section. Hov just did a joint with MJ; he is also pop. Point is, both Nas and Jay can flow. Both did some pop, both did the hardcore songs, both did the radio friendly songs and both did songs with deep lyrics. However, if you lay out all of their songs, Nas does the deep lyric thing more often than Hov. I'm not saying, therefore, Nas is the best rapper, but that is what makes me like him more. And that's why I see him as the better rapper. And to Steph, I don't agree with everything that you said, but I feel you for the most part. You don't have to come up in it to appreciate it. Holla

Now, see, Qoolout? I feel you. You, I can understand. You make very good points. Nas is deeper than Jay, thus making him better in your book - and your book alone. However, you do understand overall that Jay is doin more than Nas (i.e. sales, popularity, good albums, lyrics, production, collabos, etc.) So, I'm talkin to the "Illmatic was good, so Stillmatic is gonna be good" irrational fans. And the "Jay-Z is gay and pop! Nas is so street" folks who obviously only hear Jay on MTV and conveniently forget about Nas flirts with hip- pop. I'm not Jay's biggest fan, but I know when one rapper is better than another when I see it. And for RIGHT NOW, Nas isn't even close to Jay as an enterainer or as a rapper overall.

What is pop! I know that N*Snyk and the backstreet boys are pop.But really that stuff I said earlier about the suburbs and what not.plays an intrical part in that.It's a sicological thing Jay say he makes song for the streets but in the back of his mind he knows Resevoir Dogs will not sell on MTV only Hard Knock Life will.Watch MTV unplugged when Jay is on their.You won't see him dig into the valut and rap some Reasnoble Doubt stuff! Now I think about it I bet he won't even pull out the Vol.1 for them fools.I have nothing aginst Jay or any other rapper but people have to reconize that you have to rap the stuff that brung you from the gutter to the suburbs.Or just like one of Jay's song title "From Marcy to Hollywood." Where I live you best belive that Vol.2 on up in the Jay-Z collection gets more heavy rotation than Reasnoble Doubt and vol.1.Nas can't live off the succsess of illmatic if you read my very first message on november 2 you will see my opinion on Nas.That's it I'm out! Thanks for reading Holla back Hollywood

OK i was reading alot of earlier post and saw some new things that kinda piss me off

#1 some idiot on september 18th said Nas couldnt rap fast... just how many nas songs have you heard youngin

#2 manny i dont give a fuck what you posted before im tellin you not to use it now

#3 hillis i think hit em up was complete and total bullshit because tupac had no reason, i repeat, no reason what so ever to be mad at BIG that faggot suge knight probably made him make that song.

oh and did anyone see that top 50 rappers on BET? that was some bullshit as well jayz number 2? and biggie lower than that? gay ass online voters i tell yah cause there is no way. i could understand jayz being atleast number 10 i liked him up until that gay ass dynasty record and the beef with QB so i got to give him credit up until there. i think biggie should have been #1 but i dont mind tupac being number 1 cause they both had the same talent but pac talked shit which sold and biggie was laid back which sold but not as much. and of all songs of tupac they play they had to pic california love shit i would have much rather have heard i aint mad at ya.

anyway heres something from bet.com

For those wondering if the Queensbridge MC struck back at Jay-Z's scathing dis on his track "Takeover," the answer is yes. Wasting no time, Nas fires lyrical barbs back at the Jiggaman on the LP's second track, the lethal "Ether." Ironically, like Jay-Z's Blueprint, Stillmatic is mostly Nas and only features the contributions of AZ, Mary J. Blige and newcomer Amerie. Producers on Stillmatic include DJ Premier of Gang Starr, Large Professor, L.E.S., Salaam Remi and Swizz Beatz.

The track listing for the LP is as follows:

1) "Stillmatic (The Intro)" - produced by Hangmen 3 Productions

2) "Ether" - produced by Ron Brownz for Family Tree Entertainment

3) "Got Ur Self A..." - produced by Megahertz Music Group

4) "Smokin'" - produced by Precision for Precision Crafted / Davert Entertainment

5) "You're Da Man" - produced by Large Professor for Paul Sea Productions, Inc.

6) "Rewind" - produced by Large Professor for Paul Sea Productions, Inc.

7) "One Mic" - produced by Nas for Ill Will Music and Chucky Thompson for Chucklife Productions

8) "2nd Childhood" - produced by DJ Premier for Works of Mart, Inc.

9) "Destroy & Rebuild" - produced by Baby Paul for P.G. Sole Productions, Inc. and Mike Risko for Heat Holdas Productions

10) "The Flyest" - featuring AZ; produced by L.E.S. & Staff for Big Things Entertainment, Inc.

11) "Braveheart Party" - featuring Mary J. Blige; produced by Swizz Beatz The Monster for RR / Full Serface Productions, Inc.

12) "Rule" - featuring Amerie; produced by Track Masters Entertainment

13) "My Country" - produced by Lofey for Soundlofer Music Inc. / Desert Storm / Skane Management

14) "Poison" - produced by Salaam "The Chameleon" Remi for Dashiki Productions, Inc.

Bonus Track: "Every Ghetto" - produced by L.E.S. for Big Things Entertainment, Inc.

HELL YEAH SON, also mobb deeps new cd comes out on 12/11 and i cant wait for nores new cd hahahaha QBs the shit.

I GOT QUESTIONS FOR BIG J since you listed all the tracks for stillmatic did you hear it,and if so was it street, how would you compare it to hov's shit,what are the standout song's to look for and what makes those standout songs.one last question how good does if feel to hear az and nas spit fire again. give me a one to five mic rating.

p.s. if you head stillmatic and it was wack don't reply big j. my day is goin good so far and that's all i need to fuck it up.

i havent heard it, i got all that from BET.com

Q, you see, Nas DID some pop but Jay DOES pop ever since that album with big pimpin on it but the nas's was just on nastradomas and a little bit on the cd with "you can hate me now" on it"(eventhough i thought it was a good song but puffy? -_-

Hillis, Nas is basicly a one man army because he doesnt need collabos to boost album sales (not saying jay has done this) its seems like its all about whos on your album these days, god damn i miss good ol mid 90's rap, "grab ya dicks if you love hip-hop and fuck you niggas that shot big poppa" -Ice Cube, Born Again: "If i should die before i wake".

Rap has gone downhill since then and theres not many good cds these days, the newest one i bought was violater 2.0 and born again(someone stole my last one) guess ill have to wait for mobb deeps new cd (dec11) and nas's(dec ??)

oh and i almost forgot, FUCK GAYZ

Yo-Yo, whats the deal people!...Not to get off the subject but damn Manny not a lot of people seem to like you kid (BigJ,Qoolout,Steph and more) Where you from son? and whats that phrase that you always write when your done mean? You gonna come back at these MF's or what?....Back to the shit, Hillis I agree with you, but also every rapper goes Pop. but whats wrong with that?everybody always gotta be hard? Biggie went Pop, Tupac went Pop..NObody calling dem bitches....Holla.One. -Steve

Who was it that made a comment about collabos on records. For the benefit of them would somebody please stand up and say exactly how many there are on the Blueprint. OK there have been a lot on previous HOVA albums (notably vol.2) but that was at a time when collabos sold copies in the stores. Jay is showing he can do a record on his own. Just in case you needed further proof. And whoever said that Nas is gonna live and die by Illmatic, thats the one thing that made the most sense since the start of this thread. Every single time Nas is about to release a CD peeps are shoutin from the rooftops with shit like. "YEAH YEAH! NAS NAS! THIS IS GONNA BE HOT SHIT!", but a week after its dropped they say, "it wasn't that good, but the next one is gonna be real". Guess what? they been sayin that since Illmatic all the way back in the last century. hmmm.... "DAMN, STILLMATICS GONNA BE HOT!"

Wheres that stillmatic dude that talked shit up the page? anyone seen him? anyone? guess not. But speakin of which, where the fuck has Manny gone? Maybe theys the same person?

I noticed a lot of "too pop" chitter chatter up on here. So listen to a lyric straight out of the mouth of Nas, your beloved street rapper, keepin it real...

Nasty Nas to Esco/to Escobar/now he is Nastradamus.

...so let me break it down for y'all: Nasty Nas was hot, Esco was OK, Escobar was LAAAAAME! and as for Nastradamus, use yo' BRAAAAAIN! Thats my interpretation of it. Look at it how you want, but it came out of his own mouth on a track that was so poor I forgot what its called. By my reckoning, if he continues like this its gonna be Nastradamus to homeless. Which i'm sure y'all would like, cos he'd be back on the streets.

Manny come back, COME BACK MANNY! I enjoy readin your shit, even if I dont agree with a lot of it!

And finally, Steph, whos the dude you were talkin about. I like listening to unknown shit, or shit before its got big but I do like listening to lyrics I can understand (so what laguage does it come in). Remindin me to tell y'all to cop Roots Manuva's joint, "Run Come Save Me", in all good record stores now.

R.I.P Ose

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA first of all nor biggie or pac went pop. when did you ever see fuckin someone corny as britney spears in one of there videos? just what the hell is your definiton of pop son? mine is forgetting where you came from or doing alot of collabos with corny ass people like so so def, or making a song just for its chorus(not counting dirty south cause thats all they do) yeah theres more. anyway, hopfully ill be getting this cd the same day it comes out and i will give my unbiased opinion even though i hate that fag gayz, ill listen to his too and ill compare.

All y'all Nas dicklickers can chat all y'all want, but just as Jay pointed out, Nas has got the worst flow in the whole fuckin song. I just checked out the lyrics to that comercial as McDonalds Oochie Wally shit, and I can say myself that even though I thought Nas had tight flow, Hove was right, my mom could flow better than that, I could flow better than that, P.DiddyDaddyFucker could flow better than that! Man, DAMN! and who the fuck was it... Rich Nice... was it you who said try and find a tight Jay flow, well, OK...

from "Where I'm From" from "In My Lifetime, Vol. 1"

I'm from the place where the chruch is the flakiest/And niggas is praying to god so long that they Atheist/Where you can't put your vest away and say you'll wear it tomorrow/Cause the day after we'll be saying, damn I was just with him yesterday/I'm a block away from hell/not enough shots away from straight shells/An ounce away from a triple beam still using a hand-held weight scale/Your laughing, you know the place well/Where the Liqour Store's and the base well/And Government, fuck Government, niggas polotic themselves/Where we call the cops the A-Team/cause they hop out of vans and spray things/And life expectancy so low we making out wills at eight-teen

now, son, do you really want to compare, track for track, I can go on and on and on and on.

R.I.P Ose

Big J let me correct you on that.B.I.G did a cut on Michael Jackson's history album a few years ago called "This time around" and it was not a hip-hop beat either. B.I.G I am afraid to say has done pop! I am not sure about pac but he probrobly has one somewhere.

Yeah i remember reading that but how many people out there would refuse jackson? not many even through i think he is a fuckin idiot.

Yo its true, wheres Manny been at??
3:16, the "unknown dude" i was talking bout wuz Kardinal Offishall. Hes not unknown at all in Canada lol he gets quite a bit of airplay on muchmusic. I'm surprised u havn't heard of him. But anywayz u'll understand him hes english. His album's called The Firestarter vol. 1.
Good songs: -Bakardi Slang -Ol Time Killin -Husslin' -Mic T.H.U.G.S
Check him out.

This is one of my favorite Jay-z verses tell me what you think of it. This from the Reasnoble Doubt album song title Can I live verse 3 I think.

My mind is infested, with sick thoughts that circle like a Lexus, if driven wrong it's sure to hurt you Dual level like duplexes, in unity, my crew and me commit atrocities like we got immunity You guessed it, manifest it in tangible goods Platinum Rolexed it, we don't lease we buy the whole care, as you should My confederation, dead a nation, EXPLODE on detonation, overload the mind of a said patient When it balls to steam, it comes to it we all fiends gotta do it, even righteous minds go through this True this, history school us to spend our money foolish Bond with jewellers and, watch for intruders I stepped it up another level, meditated like a buddhist Recruited lieutenants with ludicrous, dreams of gettin cream let's do this, against T-D-S So I keep one eye open like, C-B-S, ya see me stressed right? Can I live? Holla back Hollywood

L.O.X.,L.O.X.,L.O.X.AM BACK.WHAT UP YALL.I WANNA GIVE A SHOUT TO MY BOYS FROM BACK IN THE DAY MY MAN QOOLOUT STRAIGHT OUTTA D.C. HILLIS 3000 REPRESENTING THE DIRTY DIRTY FOR YALL.AND WHERES MY BOY DON WAS FROM PHILLY.AND FOR ALL YALL THAT DONT KNOW ME AM LOX REPPING THE BOOGIE DOWN BRONX AND THE M.I.A.(MIAMI).ANYWAY I WANT TO ADDRESS ALL THOSE NAS HATERS PLEASE JUMP OFF JAY-ZS DICK CUZ THE BLUEPRINT DIDNT DESERVE 5 MICS THATS JUST ANOTHER WAY FOR THE SORRY ASS SOURCE TO GET ON JAYS GOOD SIDE.DONT YALL UNDERSTAND JAYZ LIKES NAS ITS SOME STRANGE INFATUATION.AND I HAVE HEARD SOME OF THE NAS ALBUM AND SO FAR ITS VERY IMPRESSING.IM NOT GONNA HATE ON JAYZ CUZ I BUMP HHIS SHIT SOMETIMES BUT HIS ASS NEEDS TO STOP THINKING HE IS BETTER THAN NAS AND THE REST OF THEM.NOW ABOUT BET`S SO CALLED 50 GREATEST MC`S WHAT THE FUCK IS JAY DOING AS NUMBER TWO THAT BULLSHIT ASS POLL.HES IN FRONT OF BIGGIE.AND HILLIS PLEASE DONT GET MAD AT ME FOR THIS I LIKE TUPAC BUT HE DID NOT DESERVE THAT #1.NELLY DESERVED IT. NAH JUST PLAYING YALL I AINT STUPID.AND ANOTHER THING HOW COME BIG L AINT EVEN ON THAT COUNTDOWN.HE SHOULDVE BEEN IN THE TOP TEN.THIS MAN IS SICK.ANYWAY THIS IS FOR THAT GIRL FROM CANADA I HEARD KARDINAL AND THIS MAN IS HOT , I WAS FEELING THAT BAKARDI SLANG "AM OFF THE THERMOSTAT/PLUS AM COMING FROM THE COLD".ANYWAY WHATUP WITH MY JADAKISS FANS OUT THERE.TO ME HE THE HOTTEST OUT RIGHT NOW.AM COMING BACK LATER SO.................TURN THE FUCKIN BEAT UP.AM OUT.ONE.

Yeah, why exactly did Jayz tried to pull Nas's cards? Just cuz Nas didnt want to do a song with him??Now that is ...LAAAAAAAAAME!I may not know both of them very well, but I 100% guarantee that if Nas was to go up to Jigga and ask him "what was that for", this would be jiggas response: "yo my bad yo ,i was just mad yo i didnt mean to make you mad yo u know i didnt mean all that shit i said yo, lets squash this yo.dont hit me yo." then they'll squash it, and then the next time jayz do another summer jam or radio show, he'll try to diss nas right behind his back again like a bitch. Tell me if I'm wrong. Jay-z may be the best right now, but that was a bitch move that he made to get to the top(embarassing prodigy by showing him in a tutu, and calling out nas when nas didnt even know jayz had beef with him). What they need to do is an open mike contest between Nas and Hov... (I'm not even gonna show disrespect the LORD by callin gay-Z "Hova") and see who outshine who in a freestyle battle. Anyway i hope y'all had a good thanksgiving. Shouts out to my niggas Quooout (sorry i spelled it wrong again), Big J, Hillis 3000( yo name is ill ), 3:16 (your opinions are well supported), LOX (see styles LP in Feb or march).oh yeah by the way, sorry I HAVE to say this, but if Nas had atleast the same level of production HOVA has had, sorry, GAME OVER 4 HOVA. Some one said it i forgot who. If anyone disagrees with me, thats ok its all love.Peace out, God bless da globe. bin Laden your days r numbered(almost to none) and i'm out. One!

Lord forgive me if I address Jay z by the name "Hova" again. One

What up LOX? I see you repin' up in here. LOL. I feel you for the most part. I didn't see that BET thing yet, but Pac would get that number 1 spot and no way in the world would Hov get number 2. That just goes to show you what kind of nonsense is out there. We tried to have the Source awards because the other shows ain't give us our props, but the Source is just as bad. And about that 5 mic thing, let me quote my man Jada "Screw how many mics you got/ How much ice you got/ My bullets'll make you icy-hot." That Source bull is just that... bull. Yeah Jay got one one the best joints out right now, but that's cause ain't nobody really out there, but fools like Nelly. Speaking of Nelly, how many mics did they give him? Don't quote me on this, but they probably gave that clown 5 mics too, so that proves that the source spits BS. Plus, I liked the Hard Knock Life CD more than Blurprint. It's just that BP is new right now, so people are acting like it's the tigest thing ever. And 3:16, no offense dogg, but come on that jigga verse is weak; I never did feel that song; I don't wanna hear about Marcy anyway and I never even heard of it until he started yellin it. Ok, ok, my bad, I'm hatin' now, so disregard what I said about Marcy, but for real, look at it this way. Jay gives Nas a shout out on at least 2 of his CD's, and now he's acting like Nas is trash. Don't believe that cause that man Jay doesn't even believe it. And Big J, I think it was you who said this about Hit em up, but my bad if it wasn't you. But someone said Pac had no reason to make that song. I don't think he should have but he had plenty of reason and if we were in his shoes, who knows what we'd do? But if I put you on, introduce you to the world, or at least help you get in the door, and let you open shows for me, and then I come in your hood and get shot FIVE times, please find out who did it. I'm your boy right? I'm not saying go ride on the ones who hit me, but get me some info. BIG did none of that, and he didn't have to, but Pac didn't have to help BIG, but he did. And that's the thanx? So I understand why he made Hit em Up. Lastly, joey p? Are you 4real; is it an honset mistake or are you trying to start something? I'm trying to chill, but if you got something to say, say it, don't imply and once again it's on up in here. If it's just a misunderstanding, then my bad. Holla.

Yo Hollywood, thankyou for picking up yet another tight Jay-Z verse, and just as to hammer a point into Rich (did I not say I could go on and on?) heres another one...

from "Takeover" on the Blueprint

A wise man told me don't argue with fools/Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who/So stop with that childish shit, nigga I'm grown/Please leave it alone - don't throw rocks at the throne/Do not bark up that tree, that tree will fall on you/I don't know why your advisors ain't forewarn you/Please, not Jay, he's, not for play/I don't slack a minute, all that thug rappin and gimmicks/I will end it, all that yappin be finished/You are not deep, you made your bed now sleep/Don't make me expose you to them folks that don't know you/Nigga I know you well, all the stolen jew-els/Twinkletoes you breakin my heart/You can't fuck with me - go play somewhere, I'm busy/And all you other cats throwin shots at Jigga/You only get half a bar - fuck y'all niggaz (is this a better one Q, theres lots more to choose from)

There you go, it looks like you may have been wrong Richard.

OK Steph, I think I might just cop that Kardinal joint y'all is on about. Q, now I do know that the Source chats shit a lot of the time, but the only people who got 5mics so far are Ice Cube for "Amerikas Most Wanted", and Nas for "Illmatic", but I do see your point. The other thing is that the Hove/Nasty feud is proffesional, not personal. I dont think either of them would shoot each other over it, but because of it, Nas is gonna go platinum, all eyes are on him now which might just wake him up, and Jay has already gone platinum (many times over I do believe)

Will somebody OUTSIDE the UK please cop Roots Manuva!!! DAMN! (In all good record stores now)

R.I.P Ose

Qoolout, my bad if u misunderstood me. I really didnt know how to spell yo name by heart. no disrespect at all. matter of fact, i was giving you a shout out on my last messsage.You r 2 real yo, and i like the fact that you tell it like it is.Any way no love lost there aiight, now back to the issue at hand, for all those who really think that Nelly i number 1, y'all need to get out this website RIGHT NOW. Big ups to Big J, da 3:16, LOX (put ya hands up) and Hillis 3000, as well as Q. I'm out one.

ah LOX back up in the motherfucka.

hmm Q, your right pac did let big open shows for him and i have a picture of them togeather to prove your right. but still suge knight did force his artist to do alot of shit but still if i thought someone shot me five times id be pretty angry at that person lol. oh another question does anyone own the 2pac greatest hits cd disk 1? what the hell is this one song called god bless the dead? i remember most of the song its starts out, rest in peace to my motherfucka biggie god bless the dead, god bless the dead and biggie dont worry if you see god first, tell em shit got worst i aint mad i know you representin the crew and i can picture in heaven with a blunt and a brew. and this other guy raps after a verse his name is stretch and it sound almost just like biggie and he mentions him a few times too, its strange because i think they cut some of the end out of it.

ok anyway back to nas and gayz. too bad things cant be like they was back in the day, they could just battle right in front of each other.

Okay Joe P. It was just a misunderstanding; we qool, we str8. 3:16, yeah that qoute is much better, but still I think Jigga got some verses that are wayyyy better than that one. Now that last line, I gotta admit, I'm really feeling that. All you others taking shots at Jigga... But I would have called their names. Anyway, like I said before, I like both Jay and Nas, but Nas more because his stuff makes you think. How much time do you think Jig put into Takeover(not much). It is harsh, but it ain't hardly his best work. And about that CD that all y'all seem to hate, I'm not trying to say it's tight, but a few songs on it were and here is a little sample. 3:16, let me know what you think, and holla when Jay lays it down like this. "LAST WORDS": I'ma prison cell six by nine/Livin hell/ stone wall metal bars for the guards in jail/ My nickname the can, the slammer, the big house/ I'm the place many fear cause there's no way out/I take the sun away put misery instead/When you wit me most folks consider you dead/I saw too many inmates fallin apart/Call for the gaurds and let them out when it's dark/Convicts think they alone but if they listen close They can hear me groan touch the wall feel my pulse/All the pictures you put up is stuck to my skin/ I hear ya prayers (even when ya whisperin)/I make it hotter in the summer colder in the winter/ If the court paroal ya then another con enters/No remorse for your tears I seen em too often/When you cry I make you feel alive inside a coffin/Watch you when you eat play with you mind when you sleep/Make you dream that you free then make you wake up to me/Face to face with a cage no matter your age/I can shatter you turn you into a savage in rage/Change ya life that's if you get a chance to get out/Cause only you and I know what sufferings about/Yo it's stunning when bed sheets become your woman/And I'm the one that gotcha weapons when the beef is comming/Maybe one day I'll open up my arms to release you/You'll always be my property igga stay legal. Ha ha. Need I say more. Now he put some effort into this.

First off, the "gayz" thing is gettin a lil lame. Also to whoever it wuz sayin how the 5 mics from the Source are BS its not. Sure it don't matter much but like I think it wuz 3:16 said, they don't go giving 5 mics to everyone. And I highly doubt they gave 5 to someone as weak as Nelly.
Here's some Kardinal Offishall for y'all: "Turn up the speakers so my words shine through/My nigga dem street cats will hussle u/We gotta live, positive or positive/Action is your parogative/Clip the spark it in the parkin lot while time gets dark/We celebratin with the crew/My nigga, what else could we do/Hand to hand pass a contraban/Runnin from Babylon/Makin the money cuz, yo, that's the solution/They won't hire my brothaz to work a 9-5/So instead of suicide/We husslin to stay alive"
Anywayz, Qoolout now that wuz a damn good quote in Jay's favour. Big J I disagree its a helluva lot better hearin the battlin in the music and keepin strictly professional and shit. I mean we don't want hov' or nas 2 end up dead do we? Well I don't lol. And 3:16, I think I'll look into this Roots Manuva that ure so into.
Later y'all.

OSE BE REALISTIC,GAY'Z CAN'T SPIT FOR SHIT EVEN WITH THAT MOUTH FULL OF CUM HE STORES IN HIS CHEEKS DURING WINTER TIME. NOW CHECK OK THESE NAS LYRICS.

I saw niggas get smacked and have the street thinkin' they real saw niggas wives and knew 'em as the cum drinkin' girls hosaditty, she act like she innocent she act like her Pussy is place that no nigga been why she act like she never met me? she can't forget me thugs respect me, jealous niggas say F me 'cause my cruise shots like Lefty and Sunny Black your Hoes wanna lick Honey out my crack I'll fart in your bitch mouth, she call me psychic 'cause I knew she would like it push fleetwood Caddy's feelin' righteous I eat good, no red meat I like Fish ya'll never in your life seen money I live like a Gangster from the Nineteen Twenties smuggle bootleg liquor I shoot 'till you dead nigga I'm about bread, these rhymes is off the head nigga wear Esco leathers and Esco fleece I could flow over techno beats and rep the streets you a one verse assasin I'm a multiple LP long lastin' peekin' again grimy nigga with different color ink in my skin former low life, now I'm the Bling Bling King respect it see me with the shit I say on record not like these fake thugs, please wake up If I die I'm'a rise from the grave

OSE POST SOME SHIT

I said don't quote me on the Nelly thing because I didn't know if it was true or not, so everyone can stop writing stuff saying "He didn't get 5 mics" I was making a point, let me try again. The Source's 5 mic scale is str8 up BS!!! If Nelly got anything more than 2 mics they need to listen to that nonsense again. Jigga got 5, so what? Blueprint is a good CD to me, but it ain't the best in the world or even one of the best. Did they give Me Against the World 5 mics? Probably not and that's one of the best rap CD's ever. But let me tell the truth...I don't care if they give Jig 10 mics, I put no stock into what the Source says. I don't buy my music based on what they say; if you do, fine, but don't try to get me to do that. And look at the Source Awards. Are you sure you really want to stand behind "The Source"? Furthermore Steph, that was a good quote in your opinion, but in my opinion it was not. Like I said, Jig can spit, but he didn't impress me with that verse. Big J, I heard that song, I think they had someone on there trying to sound like Pac when he said R.I.P to B.I.G because as we all know, Pac died before B.I.G. And I agree that Suge probably did hype him to diss all of those other rappers. 3:16, who is Ose? And to whoever has any info on this next question, let me know. What's up with saying "Suge shot him" on that Mackaveli CD? To all who don't know, it's on the 1st track before the music starts; you gotta listen closely. Holla

2 Pac has a way of telling the future in his music.Suge I think could no longer control pac and this was a virtue back when Suge had that power in the hayday of Death Row. Pac somehow knew suge would lead to his eventual downfall.And that stuff about "Suge shot me" Suge had the manpower to take out even his own bread and butter trust me Pac knew 100% it going to happen.2 Pac had a lot of infomation that was going to leak out that would incriminate Suge.I think in future 2 pac songs you will find it unravel before our very eyes.And I know for a fact Pac had some dirt on Suge and it is just a matter of time before we see another album with those allagations.Correct me if I'm wrong have they even attempted to question Suge on the sircumstance of being a conspiritor in the shooting!And not on the grounds as a witness!it seems strange because 2 Pac's mom could have easily sent him to court I think fear has struck a cord in Ms. Shakur from Suge! That is my opinion.Someone please respond to this cause I know there are a lot of opinions on this subject? Thanks Holla back Hollywood

Uhh oh. I know I done started something by even raising the issue, but it's here now. I have my many theories about what happened, but some of them cancel out the others. I will say this Hollywood. I don't think we will ever hear anything else from Pac saying that Suge had a hand in his death. We may, but I doubt it because most of Pac's unreleased work was on D-Row, thus Suge owns it. If he set Pac up or not, no way is he ever gonna release something like that (if it even exists). If there were such a song or recording, my money says SK got rid of that info a loooong time ago. Oh yeah, I don't think that's Pac saying "Suge shot me," (I could be wrong) but I think it is saying "Suge shot him," and my guess is somebody form D-row included it just before it hit the stores. Let me know what y'all think.

that day he got shot suge advised tupac not to wear his bullet prooft vest, when the shooting was happening, tupac tried to jump in the back seat but suge pulled him down(he said so himself) and when they asked if he knew who killed him would he tell and he said absolutley not. see that loser suge pisses me off he ruined music but at the same time made it better but hes still a punk ass in my book.

anyway whats with all these people on the top 50 mcs of all time kissing up to GAYZ(thats right i said it) i think he paid someone to get him that high, lol i they had nelly at number 19 folks, he didnt even deserve number 100. they need to have a real hip hop channel where the music is unedited.

OK, I got some topics I can spit on for the moment, Qool, Ose is a friend of mine who got killed a couple of weeks ago, thats why his name wasnt up there when I first started on this shit. And little Richard, squash it, I aint gonna tell you again. But I will say that the flow you copped from Nas was weak. You can find the tight shit in his early stuff, haha!

Ohh... back to 2pac, y'all would think this would have been ended by now. I got my own theory to that Suge shot me line. Thats refering to the fact that Suge was all for the rivalry with B.I.G and pushed pac to go further, going further is what got him shot. I think someone on D-Row put it on. Probably one of them mans that left tha row.

That was a tight flow on Nastradamus, but...

courtesy of "Big Girl" from the same album... I'm the type that'll get you by the fireplace/Get you hype when I lick it, put it in your face/Sipping red wine, is it bedtime/You can kick it with your nigga while we listen to Faith/I'm feeling richer today/I can hit it then stay ...that was plain weak ass flow. Qoute something from Illmatic. Thats where you'll find the real tight shit.

Thankyou Steph, for checkin out my man Roots, (y'all can do the same in all good record sto.... FUCK IT, I'll let the music speak for itself).

R.I.P Ose

Sorry to hear about your man. You said the flow was tight then you say take something from another CD. Just go head and accept it; he has put out tight stuff since CD #1. And you really don't wanna start naming weak verses do you? Cause I'll name a few nonsense hooks. Like H to the izzo. Come on, or girls, girls, girls. And please don't try to tell me that these hooks are hot.

Yo check out this:
http://www.stillmatic.com
Pretty lame, doesn't say shit about the album. Only info it gives really is that Nas is "still a poet".

I think Suge does have 2 do with pac's murder cuz I think hes still alive and that Suge Knight wuz involved in the whole thing....pac'll be back yo.

This industry can get so fucked up and confusin with everyone hatin on everyone........
But anyway, yeah 3:16 I d/l some Roots Manuva, havn't had the chance 2 listen 2 it yet but i'll let ya know what I think when I do. And sorry bout ure friend Ose.

Later

I have no pitty for those who feel that Nas isn't better than Jay Z. Jay Z is a smart business man. He is smart in the sense that he borrowed BIG's flow and manipulated into his style, he has clever catch lines. Never the less, this nigga has nothhing on Nas. I don't understand why you people can't see this. Like my nigga Nas said, rap niggaz is so concerned with their ice that their flows are watered down. I have no remorse for the WACK AZZ SOUTH!! you cats are wack, you duns don't know real hip hop. You dudes are just like BET, thinking the amount of sales of an lp determines how nice the emcee is. I would defend Nas because believe it or not "Ether" kills Jay Z's "takeover", he spits four bars on that mad joint that could possibly destroy Jay Z's entire career. The reason why Nas, Big, and Pac are considered to be greats because they were humble in sense. They never self procalimed them selves as the greatest, they left that to the fans, but in almost every joint Jay Z talks about how he is the God MC...... negro please, take your kindergarten hooks somewhere else and stop hiding behing your great production.

"the liar is greater than the thier/the thief is after my riches/the liar is after my reality"-Nas "the pen is mightier than the sword/'cause the pen writes the words/"that send the sword to war"-Nas

Fuck it. I'm through bein nice. Nas is straight garbage. I'm sorry, I don't give a fuck no more. This weak ass nigga has put out 6 good songs his entire career, and one "classic" album that didn't even go gold, and he got sorry pussy lickin niggas like "The Best" ridin his dick off of one fuckin album. "Booboodamus" was worse than any album I've ever heard. I've heard better shit from Lil Romeo than on that wack ass album. "I Am (Wack As Hell)" was just as gay and pop as anything you faggots say about Jay-Z. "You Won't See Me Tonight" with Aaliyah was gay as hell. That wack ass singing on "Money Is My Bitch" was horrible. That faggot ass nigga stole an R. Kelly song to make "KISSING." And "Doo Doo Was Written" was wack, too. The nigga stole Pac's beat on Street Dreams, the only reason "If I Ruled the World" was good was cuz Lauryn Hill did the hook. Foxy Brown ate him up on "Affirmative Action." And Nas is the only nigga I know who could fuck up a song produced by Dre other than Dre himself. "I Gave You Power" was tight, but Jay-Z could have done a much better job, and countless other rappers cuz Nas' delivery sucks ass. The nigga still sounds 12 years old. So fuck "The Best" (bitch ass bastard) and his "whole style is bitten, read about Pac's life in the papers" boy, AKA Esco's Trash. Jay-Z is ten times better than Nas' weak ass, and if NAS had any true musical skill he'd could AT LEAST put out 2 good albums instead of one. Jay-Z ain't still ridin Reasonable Doubt acclaim or Volume 2 acclaim. The Blueprint is tighter than anything Nas could have a wet dream about. And Jay-Z isn't even in my top ten rappers. I also love how y'all faggot ass Nas lovers keep postin his lyrics. That's great cuz the only place his lyrics are tight is on paper cuz that nigga's rappin sounds TERRIBLE. So tell weak ass Nas to make just ONE MORE GOOD ALBUM and maybe he can toss Jay-Z's salad. Maybe...

And another thing for that weak ass "The Best" bitch. Fuck you and wherever you're from. I hope you ain't from New York cuz I'll get all in yo ass on that one. But bitch, the South runs hip-hop. We make the best beats and ou music sounds the best cuz we know what the people like. That's why all you wack ass up North cats want Timbaland to make your beats and UGK, Ludacris, Missy, Jermaine Dupri, Outkast, Cash Money, 8Ball & MJG to improve on your wack ass songs cuz you can't deliver like the South. The South is all over hip-hop because we do it for the people. People wanna bob they heads, and we give it to em. We are truly the People's Champion. That's why Bubba Sparxxx can go platinum down heah, cuz we make All-Stars. Everybody else make crybaby ass whinin about the White man and boohooin in the ghetto sad depressing songs (that supposedly make you think, but really make you wanna change songs) and the majority of the people don't wanna hear that. And the South has never gon pop like you wack ass up North rappers love to do. We keep it grimey and dirty all the time, bitch. So fuck you "dun." You and your other "hip-hop heads" can go peel in your "whip" and be "fresh, dunny." Me and my dirty niggas will come down on slabs while leanin on that bar, ho. Check the South lingo if you really wanna enjoy music.

And another thing, sissy ass "The Best" bitch: If nobody buys FUBU is it a tight line of clothing? If nobody buys Hilfiger is it "chic." If Air Jordan's don't sell are they a tight ass brand of shoes? HELL NAW, you stupid bitch. Sales don't make an artist, but they say somethin about his overall appeal, and bitch the South outsells everybody else, so we must be doin somethin right, you punk ass beeyatch. Why don't you marinate on that "dunny" and call Nas up and ask him if "Stillmatic" is gonna be 1 or 1 and 1/2 mics. Weak ass Nas...

And another thing about Nas copy cat ass... One of his 6 good songs was Project Windows. His weak ass got Ron Isley to do the hook and Mr. Biggs improved the song 10 times over cuz Nas is straight monkey piss. But hold up! UGK did a song with Ron Isley called "One Day" about 5 years ago, so tell Nas' bitin ass to get with the times. UGK been done did a slow, soulful song with Ron Isley on the hook. Nas is a little behind. And when I say Nas is a little behind, I means he's late as well as an asshole. Weak ass, gay ass, one decent album, no sales, hasn't been good in 8 years ass, faggot ass, slop ass Nas...

Wait! There's more! According to Nas, Jay-Z must have copied Pac. Nas keep talkin all that shit about Jay-Z copyin him, Nas is just a fake wanna be 2Pac. I mean can understand Nas stealin from 2Pac, cuz 2Pac is The Best, but damn, he ain't gotta be a hypocrite. How he gon clown Jay-Z for copyin him, when he copied Pac?! Jay-Z stealin from Pac too, but he ain't no hypocrite about it. Fuck ass, Esco's trash is just LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!!!!!!!!

There was so many things wrong with those post i wont even adress the shit (haha the disses on the best where a little amusing though)

Hell yeaaaaaaaah, Hillis! Y'all betta recognize the dirty up in here "runnin' this rap shit". All this bullshit 'bout who's the best MC and who got the best flow ain't shit unless y'all throw my dogs pimp c and project pat in da mix. yo, i'm just foolin' 'bout project pat, but i am serious 'bout the south gettin' some propers on dis here thread. ugk, three six and outkast all can make you think, laugh and most importantly, make your head bob. all y'all nas junkies need to revaluate why you listen to rap. if y'all like poetry than read it. hell langston hughes is one of my favorites. i listen to music to be entertained and moved. if i'm having trouble sleepin, than maybe i'll throw in one of nas' weak ass, boring as a muthafucka, drab ass, pseudo intellecutal CD's in the playa. oh and why the fuck is "pop" such a negative thing. you mean niggaz is supposed to try to sound unappealing? i'm not sayin' that gettin j- lo to shake her ass and sing some gay ass hook is always acceptable, but there ain't nothin' wrong with wildin' out in some club bouncin' to cash money millionaires, ludacris, or hell, even nelly for that matter. it beats the hell outta sittin' in some depressing ass rundown apartment listenin' to nas bitch about his "new york state of mind".

Look Hillis or whatever you call yourself dun I am not trying to start a confrontation on the INTERNET, that's not my style. I am entitled to my opinion, and the south is MAD WACK. Yeah wo I am from Queens, but I attend Southern University in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I am not a geographical nigga I don't base mad hot sounds on hemispheres dun I like what ever is intelligent and sounds good. Face it, the south is wack and they are riding desperately on those mad wack azz choruses....ex.) Ludacris-Roll Out, Cash Money-Shyne, Three six mafia-tounge ring (their sexuality is suspect!!) U.G.K.- These dudes are wack also I heard their new c.d......AND dudes point is what! Wo keep it on wax yall south niggaz is reppin the east's style big time wit the ones and tims and mad shyt like that, but that is another subject homey. That south in all lacks substance, the rhymes are basic, and one dun said it perfect on here yall dudes make "CLUB BANGERS" that chicks shake their ass to = not hip hop.

Now on Nas, dudes be hatin on this cat fo real fo real. He is the only emcee being constantly compared with his first c.d. For instance, duns been doing this forever saying It Was Written or I Am lacked the intelligence and lyrical power of Illmatic so they are failures. I don't her dudes comparing Jay Z's later c.d.'s(which in my opinion are all trash) to RD because they all are not even close to the lyricism of RD. Niggaz need to stop hatin on dude cause he is mad tight.

Hillis I figured that you were ignorant dun because you trying to put up an arguement against Nas with cats like Ludacris, Jermaine Dupri, and Cash Money.....NEGRO PLEASE. All these wack cats do is make rhymes suitable for the simple minded audiences. There rhymes are arrogant and hillarious. They are praying to win over the MTV crowd. "niggaz so concerned with their ice, that their flows are watered down"(think about it)

This is Nas's intro verses on Stillmatic peep (simple minded duns need not look)

jakes pounding on the concrete/ creep in unmarked cars and jeeps/ searching? funds?/ merking burns in the boxes they sleep/ rocks up in the socks of my fam up inb the tri-state/ tempting their fate/ sometimes feeling I need a break/ snatching up my trees, coat and pen then/ smoke more dutches then revolts in England/ hope u been listening/ if not let me begin/ thug gentlemen/ slugs whistlin'/ clippin your chin/ slickening, like Jesus wit a devilish grin/ definition contradiction, I AM heavens presence in sin/ yang and the yin/ speaking with the slang from within....

I know my post is mad long but one more from the dis track on Stillmatic called "Ether". This is the bootleg version, I personally think that this will not be the official dis track, even though it kills dude(Jay Z)

First off when I met you Jay/ you was nervous nothing to say/ said you loved illmatic/ said it was in the system to this day/ went from reasonable doubt to a hard knock life/ when we was on tour you didn't have a tec maybe a pocket knife/ Ima tell that truth about Shawn Carter/ ya pops neva left? moms was raped, so who's ya father?/ America, thats the truth I heard it from JIGGA/ you never slang crack you sold ETHER nigga/ remember you in marcy with that hoe Nicole/ she approached me at my show saying you had a small dick HOV.....

CHORUS: jigga is wack, doesn't need to be black/ u sold ether, the poor mans crack/ take your doe, your flow is old/ it's the takeover, I takehova and go...

WHAT!! THE SOUTH......LOL

Even commercial ass B.E.T. know that the south is mad wack yo. Greatest emcees of all time and were any south "rappers" in the top 5?.....Sorry the south is the weakest region....GOODBYE!!

"Wait! There's more!" (Hillis 3000) On Affimative Action "wordie" Nas wrote Foxy's lyrics....yeah I know you already knew that huh. Oh, one more reason why THE DIRTY SOUTH....LOL receives no respect because I witnessed these cats on rap city (freestylin') make a complete fool out of themselves. Ex.) 8Ball and MJg, Three Six Mafia, Cash Money. And guess what they had to flow off someone else's beat so they couldn't hide behind those looney tune azz beats huh "wordie". If any dude disagrees with me just listen to the South's beats and tell me that they don't sound exactly the same. I swear dun that Juvenile beat for "Set it Off" has been used by many other SOUTH artists many a times. Don't get it twisted Timbaland to....listen to Playas "Cheers to You" then go and listen to Aaliyah's "One in a Million" WHAT DID YOU SAY DUN?!!! Yeah Hillis "YOU GET IT FROM YA MOMA" (JUVENILE) DON'T YOU EVER CONFRONT ME WITH THE WACK AZZ SOUTH SHYT AGAIN.LOL

I CAN'T WAIT TO GO HOME FO XMAS BREAK DUN THIS WACK AZZ SOUTH MUSIC IS KILLIN ME WO!!

"i found out this world is a beautiful place/ had niggaz opinions ruinin my musical taste"-Nas

"I don't really like to exercise but i'll push up on a nigga"-ME

Hey y'all we can disagree all day, but the Bama cuz already hinted at what I've been saying all along. He said he listens to music to be moved. See he and many others focus on the beats and the hooks. Us Nas fans want a little more. That's why I couldn't listen to some nonsense like "She get it from her Mama." I'm not about to hate on the entire South, but for the most part, I'm not feeling them. I felt a little of Bubba and I used to like Scarface and the Geto Boys so I'm not gonna say they have nothing for me. But stuff like "Bling Bling," that doesn't move me, but I guess every coast has their share of weak rappers. The Best, why do you think that that verse won't be on Nas' CD. That thing was tight. Now, what Jig fan can say that the lyrics of takeover were better than those that Best posted? Be for real. And Big J, I feel you. Bama, tell me this, are you saying that Nelly is better than Nas? I'm not even gonna try to convince you; you don't even get half a bar with that. Oh yeah, Hillis, you didn't like that Aaliyah/Nas joint? That thing was tight, but I respect your opinion.

Qoolout this probably wouldn't be the official disk track lyrics because that dis is not Nas, maybe Jay's type of dis, but not Nas. In that I mean he doesn't talk about sexuality and all that, and women another nigga has been with shyt(Jay Z). He kills dudes on the lyrical and business side of the game. He makes dudes feel immature and embarrassed for coming at him, and in plus those lyrics are too simple even Hillis 3000 can understand them. 1

"you rap niggaz make me mad yall crazy azz/ and i don't give a fuck what u sold that shyt is trash/ bang this 'cause i garuntee that you bought it/ all day air play nigga without the CHORUS/ i keep it thoro"-P from MobbDeep

Hope you didn't think I was going to leave you out Bama ("Here We is Boy"=grammatical errors) Oh, so you say you like to dance. If that is the case dun just have the beat and excuse those lame azz lyrics the south has from the song. Wo dancing is for women. "UGK, Outkast, and Three 6 Mafia all can make you think" (Bama). Dun, THINK ABOUT WHAT?!?! getting some head, seeing how much ice you can buy, or who will be the first to own 22" rims. I give Outkast credit....THAT'S IT. I am not going to knock you for dancing, but in Queens dudes don't dance we live for the lyrics. Oh, who said that we don't have tight producers.....Alchemist, Rocwilder, Swizz, Neptunes(even though they are starting to get played out), Havoc, DJ Premier, believe it or not Dr. Dre prefers the east (Aftermath), Mad Rapper and so many more. Don't overlook the east's producers wo. I sometimes ask myself if there wasn't MTV or BET would any of you have a legitimate argument about who's hot and who's not?!

"Salt lumps acquired taste quench throats/ God's masterpiece Fantasy Theater in trench coats"-Nas

Yo, this is my first post to the site, respect to the veterans, you guys have some lively discussions here. Now, my 2 cents on the Nas vs Jay Z lyrical beef. Hear me out guys.

The first time I heard Illmatic, I was chillin in a record store and they played "halftime". The shit was soooo dope! I had to cop the CD (and this was a totally unknown rapper at the time), it was one of the best Rap CDs I have EVER purchased. Pure unadulterated lyrical genius, track after track after track. In the 100th Source Magazine Special Addition, they labled that album, "the most underrated album in rap history", damn I agree. This nigga was spittin pure lyrics and what also got me was that he wasn't on that flossin, cashmoney, fastcars, video shit! He was straight up representin and no one could touch it, that's what made us want more.

Then "It Was Written" came out and I saw two things: 1) lyrical genius was still intact, and 2) the commercial shit had started to set in. As his other albums came out, he switched, much more commercial, less pure lyrical genius. No one can deny the boy has talent, but he lost a HUGE chunk of his fan base album by album by getting more lazy and talkin about shit that everybode else was talkin about, flossin and shit, and he went totally commercial. So I couldn't relate and stop buyin his shit. Every once and a while he would still hook me up with some dope tracks like "verbal intercourse" on only built 4 cuban linx!

So, part A) of my point is that Nas is an awesome talent, who (as far as many of his once loyal fans are concerned, and also as far as his record sales are concerned) has fallen a few levels. Does he still have it (shit, he never lost hit!), but he doesn't show it to us anymore, not the way he used to. As far as battling goes, this will be interesting because Nas (early edition) never spent his time bragging about how hard he was or how weak another nigga'z shit was. I always noticed that he spent more time on the lyrics and on his experiences in life and it was cool. He never devoted a whole rap to (how hard he was, and how light other MCs were, not in the way Jay-Z or Redman would) I think this is essential for battling. But we're assuming a good lyricist can flip and be that good on any topic... we'll see.

As far as the dissin goes, I have to take this with a BUCKET of salt! Half the niggaz he's dissin now, he was praisin in the past. AZ, Cormega, Jay-Z, and others. And then there was the move to The Firm, "Escobar" and now some new cliq name, it all shows signs of instability and indecisiveness. And now, I understand he's cool with AZ again. So, as a fan, I have to watch how much I get caught in this shit, cause 6 months from now, he and Jay Z may be doin tracks together (don't say it can't happen, remember EPMD?) not that they were that close, but u get the point! So, either Nas is a horrible judge of character (and clique names) or maybe he's the problem. I don't move in their circles so I can only speculate. One minute you'd die for a nigga, next minute u tryin to kill him,what up wid that? So, all that shit aside, if it's just for the lyrical ride, I'm down and I know it WILL be colorful. I know Jay Z can be colorful and lyrical when he's ready (and commercial and shitty when he's ready) and I know there aren't much niggaz that can hold a stage with Nas on the mic when he's on. But can he go battle style? I hope he come's back up. He said in a recent interview that he'll never try to make another Illmatic type album, and I'm thinking to myself, why do rappers/singers/etc always 4get what put them on top in the first place??? If you've got to do your thing, do as RZA did (change your name to bobby digital, do bobby digital shit, but don't fuckup the track record that Rza built). That's my two cents on part a) the Nas side.... if you niggaz feel any of the shit I'm sayin, and I'm not kicked the fuck out, I'll post my opinion on part b) the Jay Z side. thanks for givin me a little air play, stay strong niggaz!

Yo, yall hear about the event that happened at the Powerhouse concert in philly?? Jada was freestyling dissin beanie and when the crowd found out who he was dissin, the crowed threw bottles, sticks, car keys, etc, and a tired Beanie was notified (they dont even know where he was coming from. it seems like he came outta nowhere), so when jay was done, Beanie spitted some shit like this:

Yo, yall hear about the event that happened at the Powerhouse concert in philly?? Jada was freestyling dissin beanie and when the crowd found out who he was dissin, the crowed threw bottles, sticks, car keys, etc, and a tired Beanie was notified (they dont even know where he was coming from. it seems like he came outta nowhere), so when jay was done, Beanie came out said "i I'ma do this right" and spitted out something like this:I'm thinkin about fuckin his mom and lettin him watch/I'm takin his time and takin his watch/I'm takin his his grime, puttin 5 eights on his block.....If you want to hear more check out allhiphop.com for the artcle "beanie/jadakiss beef flare up in philly" and at the bottom you can hear both their disses on Real Audio. I fell out my chair when i heard that shit beanie said. Anyway, peace to my niggas ya know who ya is, i gotta ball now so i'll check ya out later. One

Yo, Just read a really interesting article on the beef on MTV.com. It's a good read, just goes to show, that this thing is more show than we think it is. You can find the article at http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1446481/20010809/story.jhtml

it contains quotes like "It's music," Jay-Z said last week, on the set of the video to "Izzo (H.O.V.A.)" (see "Jay-Z Gets Serious, 'Soulful,' On New Video And Album"). "It's rap music. Rap music was built on being competitive — MCs from back in the days battlin' and trying to be the best. But now you've got money involved, so you take that competitive fire and you add it along with money, and you got a lethal combination. But it's good for rap music."

and

Jadakiss swears it's mostly hype.

"The industry ain't like that," said Jada, whose solo debut, Kiss Tha Game Goodbye, was released Tuesday. "Most of the beefs you hear about ... are phony because the people you hear talking about each other, you can catch them downtown having a [hand]shake over some seafood, and it's not that serious.

"Usually everything is to make money," he explained. "If you can make money off it, then it's beneficial."

U be the judge.

Why is there a fight about South and the East.There is no winner! South makes the beats that got that knock you play all day in your car.And east got the lyrics the type where the beat is shitty as hell and the lyrics make it a hard song.They both appeal to different audiences I am not going to play "New York State Of Mind" on the dance floor I am going to play "Sippen on Some Syrip" when I am in my room I'm going to play "Polticts as usual" not "Southen Hospitality" and nobody has answred my question. What is POP? Holla back!

Look, "The Best," you stupid bitch... What are yu gonna say when Stillmatic is basically Booboodamus continued? Are you still gonna suck Nas' dick? You mention Jay's recent albums aren't as good as Reasonable Doubt. Whatever. But there's a difference between Jay and Nas. You see, Jay has gone 10 times platinum after Reasonable DOubt plus The Blueprint is just as excellent as Reasonable Doubt. Plus Volume 2 is a classic. However, Nas went from shit to even more shittier than we thought possible. You see, Nas can say he's "Stillmatic" but he's not "Stillgood." Jay-Z on the other hand is doin it, whodi (not wordie, you fag). And another thing "dun," Queensbridge might boast the weakest rappers in the nation. If Nas had the worst fuckin verse on the song (according to Jay) then he needs to retire cuz them other QB niggas got about as much skill as Lil Romeo on crack. And don't even mention sickle cell ass Mobb Sleep. Them niggas really need to quit. And bitch, while you hatin on the South, just remember - Prodigy asked BG to be on his album, not vice versa. We don't need any of you wack ass Queens garbage ass niggas on our shit "Down Heah" cuz we can do it on our own. We don't need help from who's hot at the time. And another thing, why would anybody "Down Heah" be worried about some gay ass nigga from a place called "Queens?" That's all you got rappin in yo weak ass set is a bunch of faggots who still can't believe that they had Pac rushin em. Fuckin sorry ass Nas, Mobb Deep, and the rest of them niggas. Tell punk ass Nas to quit tryin to start beef with Jay cuz he's King of New York now and he wants to revive his Illmatic career. And let's not forget he attacked Memphis Bleek first. That's sayin much. I'll battle with another wack ass, non rhymin bastard in Memphis Bleek. I bet Nas is like, since I'm still ridin Illmatic acclaim, I'll attack another bitch similar to me in Memphis Bleek, who's riding Jay-Z's Volume 2 acclaim.

And how we bitin off you weak ass cats on the East coast? Bitch we been sittin on dubs and comin down on slabs with that syrup (AKA bar, lean-ah) for the longest. These gold grill boys been chasin fast hoes in them big bodies for the longest, you gay ass nigga. By the way, "The Best" you should change your name to "Queenie" or somethin to represent your gay ass borough.

Shout outs to my nigga Bama, he on point with his. I agree with everything he said, ESPECIALLY that shit about sittin in yo rundown apartment claimin Nas is speakin to they heart. All Nas does is write down poetic garbage and claim that it's for the streets, so you weak ass niggas who don't know nothin about the streets assume Nas is bein real. That shit is weak. People been rappin about the ghetto forever. nas ain't hardly special.

Please tell Nas to get some bass in his muthafuckin voice! "Dunny" sounds like he's due for puberty any minute now. If he had some hair on his nuts, maybe he wouldn't sound he still had zits to pop. Faggot ass Nas.

And another thing, that wack ass list of producers you gave? Hell naw. Dj Premier is the only halfway decent one, and the Neptunes are only hot right now. Plus "Southern Hospitality" sounds just like "I Just Wanna Love You" which sounds like "Lapdance" which sounds like "Shake Ya Ass." And I KNOW you didn't have the nerve to say all the beats in the South sound the same, and then put Swizz Beatz (I'm gonna use this brass and trumpet section as much as possible) ass on there. "Down Bottom" sounds just like "Twisted Heat" which sounds like "Jigga My Nigga" which sounds like "Gotta Man" which sounds like "Girl's Best Friend" which sounds like "Ruff Ryders Anthem" which sounds like "One More Road to Cross" which sounds like "Y'all Gon Make Me Lose My Mind Up In Here!" and so on and so forth. And for your information, you jackass, "Set It Off" is Manny Fresh's beat from around 1996/97. He made that beat awhile ago and Juvenile just used it, kind of like gay ass Nas usin Pac's beat from Street Dreams. "Dunny."

But wait! There's more! You dissin UGK, but bitch, I guarantee Nas hasn't come out with a song realer than "One Day." If you really think you know UGK, go find somebody with Ridin Dirty. Listen to "One Day" or "Hi Life." Nas hasn't come out with anything as tight as them two songs. Them niggas laid it down on them tracks. Or check out "Diamonds and Wood." That one song is tighter than every good Nas song (i.e. six) combined. And "Ain't That a Bitch" on their new album is smooth and soulful. If you heard that, and still say they wack then you obviously don't know good music.

And another thing, at least you can tell Outkast from UGK our from 8ball or Juvenile or Ludacris or Three 6 or whoever. When a certain southern artist comes on, he has his own style. But Nature, AZ, Cormega, Pharoah Monch, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common, Black Thought, and the majority of the up North losers all have that same busted ass basic flow from 1989. Mas included. Damn, if y'all switched up your style maybe you could sell more than two albums a year.

"This weak ass nigga named The Best come here dissin the South/lil does he know later he gon have this dick in his mouth/oh wait, he might enjoy that so I'll put the gat up his butt/oh, he'll enjoy that, too, so I point it at his gut/then I call Bin Laden, I need another borough terrorized/Bring the plane crashin down on Queens, I see the terror in ya eyez/Dunny, The Best turned bitch, straight lickin Nas' balls/But after Nas'last 3 albums, Nas fan base became appalled/If Nas came Down South maybe he'd have a platinum plaque/His fans would crawl back, and start jockin his strap/But if he stays in sissy ass Queens, the nigga won't sell a thing/He'll have to do song with Dru Hill, and pay Sisqo to sing"

Lyrically, I'm not all that, but I bet if rapped that shit and put it on wax, it would sound a million times better than weak ass Nas' shit. He need to crawl up under the Fairybridge, oops! I mean "Queensbridge" and fuckin retire. Weak ass, Nas...

One last thing: of course sales mean nothing to a weak ass nigga that doesn't sell. Of course rap is watered down when everybody is buyin everything but yo shit. I'm sure Nas is bitter because the South puts out platinum plaque after multi platinum plaque while he sits and wonders why his dick shriveled up after Illmatic. But wait! Stillmatic to the rescue right, "dunny?" LOL, bitch.

WOAH! A lots been said. East vs South, H vs Best, Jada vs Beans. This is how it should be. It makes peeps interested. For the benefit of y'all, I'ma go with the East, H, and Beans. Q, i cannot be fucked to go head to head with lyrics. It just means that I have to think of them and spend time writtin that shit down. But that aside, I connot think of one wack Hova verse from the top of my head, i'd have to look it up closely. nas on the other hand, well... thats a bit more easy, but I will not waste my time gettin them down right, so thats that. Undoubtably they both had a couple of wack lines. Who the fuck hasn't. Pac has, B.I.G has, KRS-1 has, Rakim has, Outkast has had far too many (im sorry ms Jackson but that shit is wack). Nas and Hova have just had less than your average rappers. Thing is, Jay-Z is straight up better. Peeps can stop complaining bout "he too comercial cos of his sales" cos he got those sales thanks to the ghetto celebrity image he showed everyone in Reasonable Doubt.

Yo Hillis, you been making some sense up in here. I appreciate you comin out and spittin it like it is. The flow was tight though, you should ghost write or something. So Best, shut up fool. Plus that pushin up lyric has been used before, its not yours.

Yo! anyone know where Manny gone?

"Go play somewhere, I'm busy" - Jay-Z

R.I.P Ose

Look, if I shoot you, I'm brainless But if you shoot me, then you're famous -- what's a n*gga to do? When the, streets is watching, blocks keep clocking Waiting for you to break, make your first mistake Can't ignore it, that's the fastest way to get extorted But my time is money, at twenty-five, I can't afford it Beef is sorted like Godiva, chocolates N*ggaz you bought it, I pull the slide back and cock it Plan aborted, you and your mans get a pass This rhyme, you're operating on f*ck time Y'all n*ggaz ain't worth my shells/all y'all n*ggaz tryin to do is hurt my sales/and stop trips to John McNale/The type to start a beef then, run to the cops/When I see you in the street got, one in the drop/Would I rather be on tour getting a, hundred a pop/Taking pictures with some b*tches, in front of the drop/The streets is watching

From "Streets is Watching" - In My Lifetime, vol.1

Sorry, couldn't help it!

R.I.P Ose

Hillis comming with the lyrics now,damn! We definately need to make this a multimedia page so we can hear some of our fellow rap entusiest put some lyrics to a beat.Even though I do not like the whole battleing thing I like the little dis you put up there.The Best you gotta throw back some fire dogg.I'm gettin too into this now!I need to stop. But yall keep up with the lyrics.Oh to sattify 3:16 i got something for you this is the classic Dead President pt.1 featuring the now most hated man along with The Best on this board, Nas here it is:

Well I was fit that wonderama shit me and my conglomerate share remain anonymous caught up in the finest shit live out by dreams until my heart get vowed and while we crave you know exactly what the shits about fuck y'all mean handlin' since a teen I dish out like the point got off your favorite team without doubt my life ain't rosy but I roll with it my mind was fine till the dough hit it and told me that the mo' did it and now it's closer shit and so I said it I blow a digit on a dimin' in a minute but no bitchin' watch how I'm walkin' cause even the thoroughest niggaz be knockin', tryin' to strike a bargain, hopin' that they might get part in shit on me boy we got me pins and needles and my cerebral be's the wickedess evil thoughts that this boughter feed you feed back in a game so deep fien's can catch ya freeze off my knee cap can y'all believe that got the city drinkin' Crystal raise up the fee rappers going broke tryin' to keep up wit me my rise the riches surprise the bitches think harder you know this nigga Jay-Z Shawn Cotter G.S. to fuck up, three years to fuck up Watch me shine like a brightly be gets to fuck up All rhymers forget like altimers small timers I said it I'm adressin' all drama torture

As always holla....By the way can someone explanie what the hell is pop!No one yet has answerd yet could you like included in your disses or something please. Hollywood

yo this is da illest post that I've been in by far. the conversations are deep, and everyone is pushin their opinion to the max! thats how it should be. thats why more and more people comes to this post. "Keep it thoro, niggas!". Personally, I dont care what coast the music i hear is from, as long as it moves me enough to dance to, or to bop my head to or make me think, that's all that matters. If you want to just chill out and hear songs that make you think, songs like "NY State of Mine" and "Dead Presidents 1+2" paint pictures and tells stories for the head. If you want to breakdance or do "the uptown/harlem shakes or the heal toe tap dances, then listen to "Special Delivery" by G-Dep or "Lets Get It" by Bad Boys( Also if you forget bout the wack lyrics). If you just wanna wild out and be hyper Listen to "Got my mind right" by Memphis Bleek and Ante Up+ remix by M.O.P.,Southern Hospitality from Ludacris, and Put ya hands up by Jadakiss. If you wanna dance and floss jewels at the same time at the clubs listen to anything from Cash Money And Jay-z. It depends on what mood you are in during that time of what music you prefer and what your taste is. You're not gonna hear "NY State of mind" at the clubs or smoke w*** to anything wit a fast beat. Yeah, and Beanie got Jada in the lastest freestyle (Sorry Lox fans Jada's my mans too but Beaniegot him this time

3:16, you cant' think of one wack Hova verse? Dogg, I respect what you've been saying on here so far. I disagree with most of your points, but still you've been making points. But now...I don't know. Please just reconsider that particular aspect. Hov has plently of wack verses, lines, hooks, etc. (I know what girls like) Like you said, I don't even wanna keep typing lines back and forth that another man wrote, plus, I don't own too many Jigga CD's so I would be at a disadvantage, but I think we all know he's put out some weak rhymes, just like everybody else in the game. So just think about that and then holla back.

YO HILLIS YOU MY BOY AND EVERYTHING BUT ILLMATIC DID GO GOLD AND DONT SAY THAT 2PAC AND NAS WERENT ABOUT TO SMASH THERE BEEF A COUPLE OF DAYS AFTER 2PAC DIED........TURN THE FUCKIN BEAT UP.ONE.

Yo Hillis, you know I got ya back playa. As for the rest of y'all, lemme set the record str8. I don't hate the east coast at all. In fact, I got mad love for catz like biggie, wu, jada, and even dat young nigga fabolous can move me. The west is str8 wit me also. But to modify a classic Biggie verse... If I got to choose a coast/I got to choose the South/I live out there/so don't go there/But that don't mean a nigga can't rest in the West/See some nice breasts in the West My beef is with wit deez catz who overglorify Nas' talent and impact on the rap game. His first joint was fairly tight. I can concede that. But why do y'all need to keep posting his '94 lyrics up in here like they're from the bible? Trust me. Nas ain't that profound. Tight lyrics? Sheeeit. Check 'Pac's "Me Against the World". You want introspective, coherent and intelligent flow, with strong ass delivery? Then that's the joint y'all should be ravin' 'bout. If y'all wanna post some '94 Nas shit, then I'm gonna post some '95 Pac shit.

I take a shot of Henesse now I'm strong enough to face the madness/Nickel bag full of sess weed laced with hash/Phone calls from my niggaz on the, other side/Two childhood friends just died/I couldn't cry/A damn shame, when will we ever change/And what remains from a twelve gauge to the brain/Arguements with my Boo is true /I spend mo' time with my niggaz than I do with you/But everywhere it's the same thang/that's the game/I'll be damned if a thang changed/fuck the fame/I'll be hustling to make a mill-ion, lord knows/Ain't no love for us ghetto children

And that shit is real.

Oh, did I hurt someone's feelings (Hillis). Like I said before dun I am not going to argue with you over this situation because you are throwing cats like Ludacris, UGK, and Cash Money in the mix.....THAT'S A NO NO DUN!! Oh, I and do listen to some of the South's shyt from DJ Screw to UGK to Eight Ball to Lord Infamous to Pastor Troy to Lil' Flip (damn you ask yourself how does he know those duns....LOL), and to me all of that shyt is wack and I would never cop one of their albums. You say that Nas is wack, when half the time you probably don't know what he is talking about..."niggaz fear what they don't understand/hate what they can't conquer, guess it's just the fury of man". All the south talks about is how much ice they have, how big of a "pimp" they are, how many whips they have etc......they may have a real song worth listening to one track out of their entire album.

Back on Nas this wo don't give a fuck about publicity actually I think the dun hates the shyt. He doesn't give a fuck about being on BET and MTV like Jay Z or the south niggaz do....QOUTE FROM PIMP C "Man I can't stand BET they don't never play any of the south's shyt" CRY BABY AZZ DUDE, WHO GIVES A FUCK!!! Nas don't give a damn about sales, the nigga is already rich, and believe it or not his least fortunate album went 3x platinum(nastradamus), but it is still labeled as a failure. Like I said before all you south duns do is rate a dude by how much he sells....LOL. Man I am done talking to your wack azz wo. I can't explain shyt to niggaz like you, but I am going to leave you with this since you want to so call battle me.

QB animals spit venom in your eyes/ battling me ....Hillis I thought you were wise??/ well im a non believer, my lyrics mixed in ether/you beating me is like seeing an all white zebra/it's just not possible so change your hypothesis/ FREEZING YOU WORDS is the only way you can "ROC" to this/ im a metropolis, your small PARISH or town/ youll get fucked verbally, i saw your panties down/ ill battle the whole south from one man to a crowd/ you cry for mercy, the only thing that will be loud/ stop the chatter, your only gangsta on the COMPURTER/ pressing enter numerous times thinking i can shoot ya/ get a life, seek a future/ get off that south shyt/ too bad, you fuck wit dudes that lack conscience/ stay in your place dun and don't ever disrespect QUEENS/ cause next time wo you'll prophesize to be on ya knees...muphucka

"Wuz up with all this NAS hatin Hillis, u can suck my dick/ got ya chick naked gone make her fuck my fist"-Me

Oh and for the dun that said the pushin up bar aint mine. "phuck you tha shit is mine" 1

What up LOX? Yeah I heard that too. I heard that Pac and a lot of his boys met with Nas and a lot of his boys. Nas said "I heard you dissed me on your new CD." This was before it was in the stores. Pac said, I'm cool with you, and don't get caught up in this east/west beef. They squashed it right there (from what I heard) and Pac said "I'll take that diss off of the CD." But then he died and Suge released it anyway. Now I don't know if any of this is true, but I believe it. Joe P, is there a new Jada vs. Beans diss, because I've only heard F Beanie by Jada and Put your hands up by Beans. Jada won that one, but let me know if there is something new. 3:16, until I hear the new stuff, Jada still got that W; I'ma stay outta the H vs. Best thing; and I agree with you on the East vs. South, East gets that W. Hey y'all, I gotta go to class now, holla back.

AND ANOTHER THING DOESNT "SET IT OFF"(JUVINILE) SOUND EXCATLY LIKE "THE BLOCK IS HOT"(LITTLE WAYNE).HOLLA.

YO HILLIS I DIDNT APPRECIATE WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT NAS AND NEW YORK BUT THAT LITTLE WRITTEN YOU HAD WAS FUNNY.YOU GET SOME POINTS.ONE.

"Wait! There's more!" Volume 2 a classic....HARDLY. That lame azz project should have been called DJ Clue The Professional Pt. 1.5 for all those damn collaborations. Everyone remember back when BIG and Pac were alive and they had the whole nation who was the only other emcee still receiving recognition.......you guessed it NAS. Yeah that was when Jay Z's shyt (for all you duns that are so concerned with sales) was going WOOD!! AND WHERE WAS THE SOUTH???!!! Believe it or not Nas changed the whole rap game with Illmatic because before that mad hot joint dropped cats was rappin about Gold chains and shyt.....the only one I can give credit to that portrayed lyricism was RAKIM/KRS-ONE/MC SHAWN. "Hillis" you bitch....LOL stick to wearing tees, girbaud's, and rees faggot!!

Hold the fuck up, slowdown. LOX, Best, this mother fucka Hillis dont know whats real out here he damn sure dont. first off i dont like to post disses like this but when you talkshit about QB you talk it to me bitch ass. first off Scarface is the only real down south rapper there is and hes one of my favorites, ludacris is alright but when you do a concert on MTV with rock bands while crazy white boys are doing tricks on bikes theres something wrong. you admited it yourself a while back Hillis, the south, lyrical is shit, so your saying fucking beats is all that matters? dumbass. if you wanted to talk shit like this before then you should have you fake ass hillbilly motherfucka. yeah my nigga Best did you see on rap city when juvenile was freestylin? he actually did a song on his cd called "ya dig" lol. hmm lets see who could freestyle better, Nas, P(prodigy for you punk ass hicks), capone, nore, and styles(the hardest nigga out here btw) and your fuckin UGK, ludacris, nelly, jd, and bubba sparxxx, hahahah i thought so bitch. oh and you say the fuckin south is the shit yet you always seem to be ridin gayz's dick (sadly from newyork). lets see whats better, big pimpim(a load of suburbon shit) and if i ruled the world. I dont know what i was smokin that day but i bought the st lunatics shit and there wasnt one good song on that shit, i sold it for $5. and as usual shittie siegel cant rap worth shit. why would mobb deep need to quit? there the fuckin realest group out there. OH FUCK THAT GAY ASS GIRLS, GIRLS GIRLS, BY GAYZ JUST CAME On, the song which he uses every fuckin sterotype even against his own race, hell yeah nas is right he doesnt deserve to be black the fuckin michael jackson wanna be. Tell me this, can your fuckin UGK, project pat, 3-6 mafia make one fuckin song with out repeating the same line or word 50 fuckin times? dont think so. id rather listen to damn pdiddy. and your punk ass nelly fakes a country accent bitch like miss fuckin cleo, but i dont need a phsychic to tell me that real niggaz dont listen to that bullshit. no one gives a flying fuck about record sells but MTV and little of BET, you flaming faggot. i know you used to rock "quiet storm" and "Nas is like" before the gay ass south came in and started making songs by repeating a word or phrase 20 times. oh and you say only in the south can a man like bubba sparxxx go platinum? and your right and i think that goes against your argument cause only in the south can a person with no rhyming skills what so ever even get signed. look at the violater cd, is basicly a NY complamation bitch. BG is alright, he aint fake like the rest of his crew and how the fuck would you know who came to who bitch? the only fuckin argument you can produce is that the south makes more money(off of bullshit) and have slightly better beats and i mean slightly they all sound the fuckin same too. i dont give a fuck about sales like any real rap fan would. let me guess your a pig shaggin redneck trying to be black right? hahaha you dont deserve to listen to rap you wannabe mother fucker.

and my nigga Q, you know what he posted was wack man.

YO BEST YOU ARE ONE SICK DUDE. THEM LYRICS WAS HOT TO DEF.YO HILLIS YOUR SHIT WAS HOT TO BUT BEST KILLED YOU.KEEP WRITING I WANNA SEE HOW THIS BATTLE EVOLVES........TURN THE FUCKIN BEAT UP. AM OUT ONE.

YO WHATUP QOOLOUT WHAT THE DEAL SON!

Yeah Q and Lox i heard that too and i also heard that he was gonna meet up with mobb deep in three days(they said it them selves on MTV)

Yeah, Big J, I know what you mean. I didn't really agree with the stuff Hillis said, but I was just trying to leave it at that i.e. a disagreement. I'm really trying to stay out of all this dissin, (I've already been there) I am tryin to chill now, thus, I got no beef with H. But I gotta agree with My dogg LOX; Hillis, Best brought it to you. Them lines were tight LOL. I'm just waiting to see your response. And another thing Big J, I feel you all the way on that Girls, Girls, sterotype bull. Jay can do better.

HAHAHAHA going wood!!!! oh my god hahaha.

And another thing. To the Bama, first of all, where are you from dogg, with a name like Bama? I guess it means something different where you reside (no disrespect). But 2nd of all, I agree with you that Pac stuff is better than Nas', but come on, you can say that about Jigga. Pac's style, words, etc. is way better than Jig's and better than anybody else you name. Plus Jay has copied Pac more than anybody else has if you ask me. And as far as Nas not being profound.... Are you telling me Jay -Z is? Even the Nas haters on here have said that Nas is the deeper of the 2. But if you don't believe, just listen to or read the lyrics (either one you want to) to Takeover and then see what Nas said in response. That will answer the question right there. P.S. I been said that going wood thing a few post back when I was speaking of Rakim. LOL

Big J, LOX, Qoolout where yall rep...Big J what part of Queens? LOX thanks wo. It took me like 20 to 30 for those bars dun. Ah, but I am done conversing/arguing with that Hillis dude, he is mad lost yo, don't know shyt about emcees, maybe "rappers", but not emcees, maybe beats, but not lyrics, maybe commercial, but not street, maybe Jay Z, but not Ali Vegas!! Dude probably one of those niggaz that thinks "CHOICES"(3/6 Mafia) deserves 5 mics.....LOL Probably determines whos a nice "rapper" by The Source's mic system!! faggot I'm done wo 1

"never argue with an idiot, he/she will lower you to their level and defeat you with experience. Dun I am out fo real fo real I have to go to class 1.

Yo! this time up on here I will not diss anybody, i'ma save that for later y'all, but for now i'ma tell you something sick, none of y'all would have even thought possible. I dont really believe its true, but its there. peep this, this is pretty much a straight copy of the text.

"It seems that Nas has a few things to say on his new album, "Stillmatic". According to MTV, Nas unsurprisingly goes at Jay- Z on diss track "Ether", but also attacks Prodigy, Nature and Cormega on "Destroy & Rebuild". Nas' one time Firm affiliate claimed that Jigga also took the blame for the Un stabbing to cover up for a friend. "Stillmatic" drops on December 18th and will address a LOT of unsettled issues that Nas believes, needs answering"

I can understand the whole Cormega diss, but P and Nature? And if anyone knows something bout the Un thang, holla back.

oh and Best/keep them push-ups/work yo' chest/buy a vest/even better/buy another pokemon sweater/go home and take yo' pen knife/go run for yo' life/y'all dont belong in the game/you just here for the fame/by riding Nas' name/cuz, yo' post up is LAAAAMMMEE!

I said I wasnt gonna do it but I did, oops. My bad.

DAMN MANNY! COME BACK CUZ!, Y'all would enjoy this shit!

And by the way, Ice Cubes "Greates Hits" is the last time y'all are gonna see him on Priority Records, Kiss got forced off the stage in Philly by the crowd (hmmm... I guess y'all know that anyway). Cam'ron has officially signed with the ROC (i guess y'all know that too), and Dr Dre (that no-writing "still gangsta" fool) along with Xzhibit, Scott Storch and Loud Records are all being sued for copying lyrics (for Xzhibit's "X").

Yo Q, I aint sayin Jay aint dropped his share of wack lyrics, I just cant think of them, they dont stick out. What do you think, when Nas takes a shit it dont stink?

Right, Hollywood, here is my defenition of pop, just for you. N sync is pop, B.Spears is pop, Westlife is pop, Backstreet Boys is pop. Pop is something little kids idealise and stick up on they walls. Its something they ask their moms to cop for them. Its something girls play at pyjama parties. Its something where nothing bad happens, where everything is good, clean wholesome fun. And it ussually contains lines like "ooh I really love you baby". Rap is not pop, Jay- Z is not pop, Nas is not pop, hell, even Will Smith aint pop (well maybe just a little bit).

Im out for now.

R.I.P Ose

Yo Qoolout, I'm reppin' Mobile, Alabama up in here. Yo dog, you're missing my point with my dis on Nas. I don't think Nas is profound at all. But at the same time, I don't think too many rappers are all that profound (except for Pac and a handful of other niggaz). Shit, the dudes I like ain't profound at all. But they entertain the hell outta me. This is just music, playa. Do I agree with Best when he says that all the south does is talk about ice, pimpin and whips? Hell yeah. He's pretty much right on. I like the shit because it sounds good and moves me. Just because Nas may spit about the streets once in a while don't make him profound. He's got a handful of dope ass cuts with some impressive lyrical flow, but it's still only a handful. The rest of his shit is the same superficial bullshit that y'all bust on the south for puttin' out. I'm sure if I took the time to really evaluate Nas' lyrics in depth, it might be fairly insightful. But for me, a bomb ass beat with some funny lyrics, is more appealing than Nas' shit. That's just my opinion y'all. Nuttin' personal yo. Y'all seem to dig ol' Nasty Nas and that's cool. I hope Stillmatic is hot. For real. If it is, I'll cop tha shit.

YO BEST AM FOM THE BRONX BUT I LIVE DOWN HERE IN MIAMI WERE THERE IN LOVE WITH THIS WACK ASS TRICK DADDY CHARACTER.ANYWAY MOST OF YALL KNOW ABOUT THE 25 GREATEST SONGS FROM EACH RAPPER ON BET. I WANNA KNOW YALL TOP 25 SONGS OF ALL TIME HEARS MINE.

1)IF I RULED THE WORLD-NAS/LAURYN HILL

2)SHOOK ONES-MOBB DEEP

3)RUFF RYDERS ANTHEM-DMX

4)JUICY-BIGGIE

5)ALL ABOUT THE BENJAMINS-P.DIDDY

6)DA JOINT-EPMD

7)CALIFORNIA LOVE-2PAC

8)PAPARAZZI-XZIBIT

9)YOUR ALL I NEED-METHOD MAN/MARY J

10)REGULATORS-WARREN G

11)MONEY,POWER,RESPECT-THE LOX

12)STILL NOT A PLAYER- BIG PUN

13)JAY-Z AND FOXY-ALL BE GOOD

14)NUTHIN BUT A G THANG- SNOOP AND DRE

15)TRIUMPH-WUTANG

16)PLAYERS BALL-OUTKAST

17)BIG POPPA-B.I.G.

18)WHEN I GET ON THE MIC-RAKIM

17)4,3,2,1-LL COOL J

18)FUGEELA-THE FUGEES

19)STREET DREAMS-NAS

20)RENEE-LOST BOYZ

21)2ND ROUND K.O.-CANIBUS

22)WOO-HAH-BUSTA RYHMES

23)FLAVA IN YOUR EAR-CRAIG MACK

24)PUT YOUR HANDS UP-JADAKISS

25)VICTORY-P.DIDDY

ANYWAY THATS WHAT I LIKE SO DONT HATE........................................TURN THE FUCKIN BEAT UP.AM OUT.ONE!

See 3:16, you're talking nonsense now. That's what it is. Don't act like I ever said Nas was the best or a God or any of that. Maybe you've got me mixed up with another Nas fan. I said his stuff is deep and makes you think. Many don't like that kind of music, but don't hate on me because I do; that's childish. And keep in mind that this here is just what I think: I'm not feeling your rhyme at all. I'm not a hater, just a person who is expressing his opinion, so I hope you take it like a man. Nas is deep and that's what appeals to me. Either disagree or agree that he's deep and we can go from there. Bama, I think you already stated your answer, so we just have to disagree. Point taken, but you said yourself that if you study his words then maybe it would be insightful. I say he is, if you can't see 3:16 or anybody else, it makes me ask "are you serious or just hating?" Holla. Oh yeah, Best, D.C., born and raised.

Damn, fresh from Chemistry and what do I see, this 3:16 dude wit something to say. Well 3:16 this is dedicated to you dun.

3:16 or 36/24/36?/of Adam's qualities, or do you attain a women's preference/ dun ya flow is mad premature/ Ill spit nicer bars wit out acquiring American literature/ "Stone Cold" you fuckin groupie/ If we battled on a U-haul truck ya flow still wouldn't move me/ Wit Hillis's dick between ya lips/phuckin faggot stick to workin ya hips/ Cause ya spits is pitiful/ We could take it to the streets, Ill leave ya condition critical/ How dare you come at "The Best", Im a lyrical general/ dun Ill steal ya soul, leaving you utterly invisible/ Im a disect your foolish lyrical career/ Ya flows is D.U.I. consistently in fear/ This concluding bar will definitely cease you to rest/ Furious at me cause positive was the results of ya AIDS test.....muphucka

Oh and the single "One Mic" on Stillmatic is better than the whole phucking Blueprint Album!!

With the Nas and P/Havoc beef I am not sure...niggaz at home say it is not true. Oh yeah Nas and AZ had a concert in Rochester a couple of weeks back and some dun threw a bottle at Nas and then Nas spit in this dudes face. A mad azz brawl broke out and I hear that AZ ran. This better not be true. I'll keep duns posted 1

Theres no way Nas would attack P.

Qoolout, if you want to hear the story, just scroll back to what i posted on November 27,2001, or also go to allhiphop.com and the story is called "Beanie/Jadakiss beef Flares UP" You'll be able to do the rest. Holla at ya boy Q

Before I post my response lyrics, I just wanna prove to everybody how weak Queens is. Ain't nobody Down South ever, I mean eva, eva, eva, eva, eva, eva... got they ass roughed up by somebody in P. Diddy's camp! And then that faggot had the nerve to wanna press charges! Bet y'all forgot about that Hate Me Now episode. Faggot ass Queens can't even stand up to the softest nigga in rap! His name was damn Puffy! You know he ain't bout shit, but he whipped Nas' Esco-ass. LOL... Queensbridge need to get real.

When I wrote these lyrics, I ain't read that shit from faggot ass Big J (or Big Gay) so he ain't mentioned, but don't think I ain't noticed you tryin to represent ya broke ass "never sold albums in triple digits" set, and I will come after your gay ass.

If real niggaz don't care about record sales, why does Nas keep puttin out albums? His shit don't sell so why bother? He just keep it underground, right? Hardly. The bitch cares about record sales, which is exactly why he did that song "Nastradamus" and "You Owe Me" and that gay ass remake with Mariah Carey. So don't gimme that real niggas don't care about record sales trash. Real niggas wouldn't sell drugs or steal cars if it didn't pay you garbage ass nigga. Niggas DO care about sales.

Here I go, with this new flow, DUNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

"Don't make me bite you, The Best, with this venom drippin from my teeth/the poison I inject in your bloodstream will make you squash all ya beef//A true DOWN SOUTH playa ain't worried bout no queen from Queensbridge/we comin hard wit some other shit that you ain't ever seen, kid//The Best ain't on my level, the criteria is too demanding/start a battle with me, and I'll be the last man standing//Nas is a wasted poet who has done nothing for music/If you put yo trust in Nas, I guarantee he will lose it//Don't be fooled, kid and don't get it twisted/If you wrote down Nas' credentials, it'd be a short list, bitch//Naw, I take that back, it'd be a blank peice of paper/Nas should take all his albums and toss em in an incinerator//No sin is greater than an artist livin off one LP/There's no savior for that sin so Nas is goin to hell, G//Please quit postin Nasty Nas' lyrics from Illmatic/It's not 1994, dawg, Nas doesn't still have it//Stillmatic's gon be garbage AKA Nastradamus Part 2/So pull out the tissue, cuz Nas gon break yo heart, dude//So I suggest you beat ya meat and get cozy with the vaseline/Test me and I will put my foot through ya guts right past ya spleen..."

If anybody REALLY wants to hear me rap, I can put that shit on wax, make an mp3, and send it to you somehow. I don't give a fuck. I love to rap. Lox, we cool, take my shit about NY in context. I ain't got nothin against NYC, it's cool. But if some NYC cats diss the South...well, you know what I gotta do, cousin. But you still straight. Qoolout, 3:16, y'all cool, too. Nothin but love here, dunnies! Bama, keep it dirty, dirty on them wack ass QB hoes. I got mad love for Bama (even though they used to whip up on my beloved Volunteers when I was growin up...) If them Queens from Queens get out of line, just say you gon send Puffy to whip they ass, and they'll fall in line with the quicks. LOL... Puffy runs the whole QB...LOL

I said I wasn't going to reply to this cat, but damn here I go.

im a specialist/ better yet "The Best" of this/ watch me get treacherous/ i flow like trancendentalists/ my rhymes is high tec, cause sharp minds think bolder/ ya flow is pre school, wait til they get older/ so im official/ ill blow through hillis like a tissue/ oh yeah, its meant to diss you/ i don't want "Southern Hospitality"/ my queens atmosphere is the reality/ comin' at me like an unarmed robbery/ dun you must be dumb/ how you goin' to defeat me wit no lyrical guns?/ ya couldn't play 6th man on my team/ flows is too experienced, stay pursuing 3/6 Mafia's "tongue ring"/ HILLIS, face it dun ya spits is bogus/ need to do like j-hov and "stay focused"/ no need to reply wit ya hocus pocus/ betta stick to what you do best "SINGING THA CHORUS"/ my flow is a disease it makes you sick/ i guess i can climb down to your lyrical level..........NIGGA SUCK MY DICK....muphucka

Hillis you a solid cat. I find your disses humorous. Coming from the south I would not even have expected you to write even that. It's mad cool though, keep being who you be, and I will respect you for that. 1

The "Best" in this game is not in the computer/you got guns i got cannons thats ready to shoot ya/not real ones but lyrics comin out the "future"/i ride bikes while u niggas ride a scooter/i dont battle but i will if i have ta/if forced to ima have to come at ya/the best ones are dead/i'm talkin bout biggie and Pac/the real ones bled/From Brick City to Watts/ya'll gonna have to gimme my spot/before i go get me my glock/ten shots niggas now gimme my props/Jay-z talkin bout that he swear he da best/next time you come to Queens hope you wearin a vest/Jay-z or J-Hova/u crazy it stays colda/stillmatic comes out its Game ova/ One

reply to j-dolo:

cannons disappeared in the 18th century/ nuclear lyricism, dun its within me/ ya flow barely touches the basics/ my spits are the Jordan 17's your's the 80's asics/ my rhymes is juicy, yours fruity like roll-ups/ i spit immensely and u swallow my throw up/ i don't even know why you decided to show up/ i strategize ya flows, torture and hold u for ransom/ u not physically suitable for a gloc, maybe a magnum/ and u will be meritted to earn ya spot/ nothin' in life's for free, so i pray those lyrics aren't "bought"/ your a foreigner, acceptance cant possibly be serious/ saying "his flow is clever" i know u curious/ my flow is jedi "may the force be with u"/ ive advanced ya rhymes they were evidently misused/ QUEENS may have been terrorized/ but battling me, dun u committing suicide...muphucka

back to the best bastard

I bomb atomically/socrates philosophies and hypothosis/even wu-tang couldn't conceive these/yo' style is weak/blown over in gentle breeze/while mine stand tall like trees/you tremble at the knees/like phoroe monch said/i'm the worst nightmare you ever had/but yous scared of bunnies/so i guess i aint that bad/but yous is one of them hip hop queers/go listen to britney spears/drink yo' non-alco beers/you still owe me arears/yo' crew is n-sync, while mines is the ROC/mines make you think while you just suck cock

R.I.P Ose

Q, I aint pointin' shit at you, you just brought up a point that I replied to, no offense meant dog, but like H3000, I stopped being nice.

Best, this is for you. Crack head...

This time i'm takin' time to write, just to add to the battle/fucker i seen yo' crib/all you got there is a rattle/yous following the "matic" herd like yo' name was fuckin' cattle/keep spittin' at you till your colleages start to cackle/You sat here tryin' to rep yo' reputation/but all you known for in the streets is yo' constant masturbation/in the current situation/i can see yo' frustration/real thugs wont even give you lubrication/im the SAS, fuck y'all marines/Best get out from that screen/dont make me start a scene cos my shit is obscene/can you face up to me?/then why you on your knees/beggin' to God PLEASE!/dont let him take my Gs/what fuckin' Gs y'all got, you aint even got D/cos im post-apocolyptic/never hesitate to flip it/muthafucka can you dig it/No, you just dig your own grave/either you mighty stupid or yo' ass is fuckin' brave/I dont believe the latter, so i guess yous the first/is that a crew car over there, damn thats your herse/peeps are lining the streets when they be seein' you passin'/but is they all mourning, hell no they all laughin'/will they burn him up, or throw his body in a hole/in my opinion they should have left you where you fall/but your gums are still flappin'/give up the fuckin' rappin, you readin' rap for beginners/QB is not the winners, just like HOVE said, i will not lose/therefore you cannot chose/so walk a mile in my shoes, and bop to my beat/so i can show you the street/but this time without the laughter/thats comin' after/dont ever think im afraid to clap ya/but like your favourite son said/you can hate me now/he should've never said it/look at y'all now

If y'all want to know more on the Nas dissin' Prodigy, Foxy and Cormega, its at jackin4beats.com

R.I.P Ose

what up Willis? need a whole day to think of lyrics just for me? well i would too seein how badly i disses you rednecks downsouth, oh by the way BIGGIE was the FIRST rapper to ever go diamond(sold 10 million records) keep bringin it to Queens and ill keep bringin it to you bitch. and i aint typing no damn rhymes either.

p.s i think nas is sellin out if he disses my man P.

Yo! This is the last time I'ma kick any lines on this thread, cos I cannot be fucked with all of that. I'ma just stick to talkin' bout rap.

Dont forget the Streetfighter soundtrack/the Men in Black soundtrack/that Oocie Wally track/is that what y'all kick in yo' shack/the joint with 3LW and the joint with ginuwine/the joint with mariah, just pop with a rhyme/NAS IS LIKE... Ronald with a reefer/friendly for the kids but hangin' on to street thug culture/like the hip hop vulture/pickin' at 2pac/with yo' claims of sellin' crack/but like Roots Manuva, i'm kickin' the cack/hasn't been MATIC since he was ILL/but y'all followers yellin' that he STILL got it/check your optic/but IT WAS WRITTEN that he allready lost it.

Damn, I need to find something that rhymes with Nastradamus.

Im provin' a point right in front of your eyes, beef promotes interest, thats why theres so much more posts on this thread now, in the same way hova and esco have done it.

YO! i'ma drop some more promotion of UK shit. Producer Adam F, got his own album called "Kaos", featuring the likes of Redman, M.O.P, Capone and N.O.R.E, LL, Beenie Man, De La Soul, Pharoe Monch, and a load of others i cant remember right now. If you aint got it yet, get it, its some hot shit. Yo Bama, Hillis, Qool, J-dolo, Steph, LOX, Hollywood, and everyone else, i got nothing but love for y'all. But peeps gots to realise that until Nas can say different, Jay-Z (like my boy Lennox Lewis) is the current undisputed heavyweight champion of rap. Other people like Beans, Jada, and Mobb Deep (no matter how good they are) are middleweights, and thats how it will allways be. P.Diddlydiddly is lightweight, straight up.

R.I.P Ose

i think that jay-z iz hatin on mobb deep because they are realer than his corny ass when jay-z came with the takeover he was just wasting his time doin all that bullshit talkin but when prodigy came out wit his underground shit about j he made it clear that he want war and roc aint ready 4 queensbridge niggas jay-z got them niggas far as sales but lyrics prodigy iz way more real about the streets FUCK ROC AND EVERYBODY ON JAY-Z DICK wait till infamy drop dunn,

Damn some of y'all need helmets, gloves and a drivers license the way y'all be ridin these niggas dicks. Just admit it fools, for one, hip hop headz will never fully agree on anything. So this is all senseless. Second, Nas is a very gifted emcee (even though he got Big Daddy Kane-itist and forgot where his strength was and ventured off in to bling bling land and can't get back.) The case in point is that he got out right Shitted on!!!! (I mean elephant shit...big ass turds and the brown watery shit!) If he is the God y'all say he is and he thinks he is, he'll come back give us our expectations. I say wait and see. As far as Mobb Deep....I hear they are dissin Jigga on every track. That's what it's gonna take but, anyone who has done that fell off hard (ie:Kool Moe Dee-Knowledge is King and Antoinette- The Gangtress....who?....exactly...Lyte dug in her ass like a suppository). Prodigy got straight clowned (Like he got shitted on by a herd of large animals in waves.) How do you comeback at a picture yourself in Ballet garb.....simple....YOU CAN'T!! No matter how gangsta and thug you claim to be....your skirt just got lifted. The whole world now knows you are that fake ass thug! Just my commentary...oh yeah Nelly (the new MC Hammer will be gone in a month or so), Fabolous (c'mon now, If Ja rule is DMX jr then this Nigga must be Mase jr...his album has some bangers on it for dancin...but longevity....NADA!) Lastly Pac, he was good....but the best....not hardly. White kids and kids under 26 believe that. One

3:16, you really need to stop making a fool out of yourself with those corny lines.

I doubt that was my man P in that picture.

Willis, keep thinking.

Im finding it really hard that nas is dissing P, it wouldnt be logical they both hate Gayz, whats to beef about.

R-Son, before I cuss yo ass out for that bullshit about Pac (I mean, you have to be Black and over 26 to have a legitimate pick for the best rapper of all time? Are you seriously that ignorant?), who do you think is the best?

The Best, I would normally appreciate your comment about my rapping, but it was laced with this condescending, patronizing tone. I guess you were "patting me on my head" for being a good lyricist, or something. Then you had the nerve to imply that since I'm from the South, you were surprised that I could do "even that (your own words)." Kind of like White folks are surprised when a nigga has 4.0 GPA. Shit like that. I bet you didn't think I would notice, so a la 2Pac, "I don't care if you kiss my ass from here to across the street boy: It's on."

Back wit some mo flow for ya, DUNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!!!

"It's like Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas/Showed Nas had no courage; he better find the Wizard of Oz//It's like Queens been soft ever since Pac blasted Mobb Deep/and came with that shit to make Queens' whole mob sleep//I'll come to Queens and wreak HAVOC, cuz I'm the real PRODIGY/Ain't nobody from fuck ass Quuens gon be stoppin me//Ain't no QUIET STORM here, the South bring thunder and lightning/And best believe that the South bring the thunder when fightin//Queersbridge need to sit down and listen to my lecture/And quit tryin to figure out who's pitcher and who's catcher//Mobb Deep's career is over, I seen it in the back of a hearse/listenin to a QB album is true HELL ON EARTH//Imagine weak ass Queenie niggas tryin to impersonate the man/I suggest you practice safe sex, so you don't impregnate ya hand//Big J ain't shit to me, I've raised the bar/He can go suck Nas dick in the back of Esco's car//Escobar's fallen and he can't get up/I'll kick a man while he's down so Nas gon get hit up//I might let The Best lick my balls, cuz that's what enemies are for/Bring ya gal DOWN SOUTH and it's 23 at ya whore//23 niggas with 23 big dicks/We got yo gal ready and willing to take 23 big licks//Send the bitch back to Queens and I catch y'all walkin alone/I start fucking with you and ya boo before you reach home//You turn and ask me 'Why you fuckin wit me, man?'/I pull out the piece and say, 'FUCK YOU NIGGA! CUZ I CAN!!!"

Like my nigga Juvenile say, "Whodi, what's up?!"

RIP to Pac, Biggie, QB's credibility, QB's appeal, and Nas' nuts And soon to be RIP to sickle cell anemia ass Mobb Deep. LOL... You KNOW Queens ain't shit when Nas gets his ass served by P. Diddy! LOL.

first off dumbass pdiddy and his bodyguards ruffed up the guy of put his dumb ass on the cross in the video and not nas, idiot.

hahahahaha Willis, its funny how you claim the south to be the kings of rap but your post was better than any south rapper could do. first off any rapper from the south would start it off like It's like Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea yeah)Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea whodie)Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea yeah)Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea yeah)Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea yeah. then the beat would, after 10 minutes come in and then guess what would happen? Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea yeah)Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea yeah)Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea yeah). then they would finish the rest of the song but saying each word and make it seem as though they wernt really rapping(which they dont, for them its reading)

but really that made you seem even more of a flaming faggot that you are. QB are the only real rappers out there right now son.

Damn im liking this online rhyming thru battling! And some of it wuz pretty damn good. The Best, i wuz impressed ure fuckin good at it. Big J, I must say, that wuz pretty damn funny shit about what a rapper from the south would say hahaha. 3:16 i wuz really feelin ure last post. U're so rite about beef sparking interest and this thread is sure as hell provin that. Btw loved that line there "hasn't been matic since he was ill".

I totally agree about all the shit about music from the south. It really pretty much all is club shit with no depth but yo the QB rappers got songs like that too. Just not as much. And c'mon we all love 2 hear that south music at some point so don't go hatin on it too much y'all.
i'm out, later

Yo Big J. I think you've made some good points dog. I'm from the south y'all but I got love for anybody that puts out good shit. But I've got my man Hillis' back fo' real yo'. By the way H3K, your Vols are the shiznit this year playa. I wish my Tide were as good. But enough of the azzkizzin. Hillis, all yo' shit is the realest muthafuckin' shit I've read so far. Keep reppin' the dirty. We know the truth kid. As for my QB niggaz. Y'all are cool. That's what this thread is all about. Exchanging ideas and arguing about who's tight and who's wack. Personally I think Nas is overrated. But I'm open minded enough to give his new shit a shot. If it's dope, then I'll be the first to post some humble ass shit up on this thread admitting my bad. At the same time, if Stillmatic is "doo", me and my dog Hillis will be the first up on this shit to beat on our chests. In any case, I got love for all of y'all. I might disagree, but I ain't no hata'. And that's my word.

I don't care who Puffy roughed up. Point being, wouldn't nobody DOWN HEAH be worried about soft ass P. Diddy. And I know you ain't tryin to diss the South like that! If it was an up North rapper rappin my lyrics it would be like this: "It's like Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas" Then 1 minute later the CD would be ejected and thrown out the window because the beat was shitty, the flow was busted, and the sales were nonexistent.

See that's why you cats up North can't sell shit. You're too arrogant to work on your MUSIC because you think lyrics outweigh the beat and words outweigh delivery. And y'all think anyone who chooses a beat over lyrics is simple minded or a white boy or some other type of ignorant shit. First off, niggas down South listen to Mobb Deep, Nas, Jay-Z, Common, and all you up North/East Coast cats. We appreciate the lyrics and all, so I don't know how you can say we're simple minded. The fact is, we place emphasis on how a song SOUNDS. True, Three 6 Mafia don't talk about shit. Sure, Cash Money hasn't done a song outside of fuckin hoes and Bling Bling. Sure, Master P made millions off of yellin "Ungh!" on every track. Sure, Nelly has less talent than Nas. But I don't give a fuck what anyone of you say, all the aforementioned rappers SOUND 10 times better because the beat is bangin and they rap to the beat. Whereas someone like Common may be deep, but he SOUNDS like he should rap in 1989 with Kool Moe Dee or somebody. His beats aren't impressive and his delivery is too basic. That's why he will never sell until he switches up his flow.

Look at Jay-Z if you don't believe. Nas is probably a deeper lyricist than Nas, but Jay-Z is definitely wittier and his wordplay is better. Jay and Nas both have delivery problems (Nas sounds 10, Jay is monotone) but Jay realizes the value of a nice beat which is why he only works with the best producers and why he sells. And those who don't sell call him pop, but Jay can't help it he has an ear for MUSIC, which is what he's supposed to be producin. Nas may be a poet, but he definitely lacks as a musician (evidence: his last three albums).

Also, why does everybody want Timbaland? That nigga sho can't rap! It's because his beats bang. Everybody, including Nas, would love to rep a Timbaland produced album, so don't get it twisted. Anybody who knows anything about puttin out good MUSIC knows you start with the beat.

And then you up North dunnies love to say shit like, "Only white people buy that South shit." I don't know what kind of White people y'all got up there, but all the White people I know DOWN HEAH know about Illmatic, The Infamous, Mos Def, Talib Kweli and DJ Hi-Tek, and definitely Ready To Die and a lot of Up North hip-hop classics. And they have em in they CD collection, too. I don't know why y'all are naive enough to think only Black people buy Nas' shit or "real" hip- hop, and White people put Nelly on the map. That's bullshit, and you know it. White people buy all types of hip-hop and if Nas, Mobb Deep, or whoever up North go platinum, gold, wood, whatever, then you can believe White people make up 75% of the sales. And that's real.

And what makes a good lyricist is debateable, too. I mean, Nas is tight because of the actual message he conveys. True enough. But someone like Bun B (check out his verse on Big Pimpin), or Eminem are tight lyricists because of the words they place together. For example on "Renegade" or "Dead Wrong" or "Murder, Murder" Eminem laces so many different phrases together, it's sick! So you got word play. Then there's someone like Ludacris who has humorous lyrics. They're tight because they're funny. And who says deep lyrics are better than funny lyrics? I personaly enjoy Ludacris' humor over any of Nas' joints. Then there's Biggie who was extremely witty and used cold ass metaphors and could actually deliver his lyrics with some passion. So you throw in wit. Then you got Jay, who's similar to BIG. And don't sleep on Twista. Fast lyrics are tight, too. Then you got Project Pat who is so wack you can't help but laugh at his shit. I mean, be real. Take Project Pat at face value and tell me "Chickenhead" ain't the funniest thing you've ever heard. Lyrics are all different. I mean, I feel like I'm pretty openminded in rap, and I can dig some Nas, Mobb Deep, and I happened to love Nas' verse in Da Bridge 2001 about Memphis Bleek. But for the most part Nas hasn't come out with SONGS that SOUND good like other rappers which is why he doesn't sell and why he is failing at being a complete MUSICIAN.

All I'm saying is us niggas DOWN SOUTH appreciate lyrics, but we want it all. For example, "Project Windows" is a Nas classic because it has a soulful beat, Nas has tight lyrics, his delivery is on point, AND Ron Isley does the hook. It tied up all the loose ends. If Nas would stick to that on Stillmatic I guarantee it would go 5 times platinum. But we'll see.

I ain't through rappin. I'm a rapper. I love it. I'll be back blastin on you weak ass Queens queens. I'll be here reppin the South. Y'all niggaz know Timbaland is the hottest and where's he from? DA DIRTY! Cop that new Ludacris, whodies! It's tight! UGK Dirty Money, what?! Set It Off in this muthafucka. Bama, let dem wack ass niggas know about the South before we make em HIT DA FLOE ("Here we is boy")! Long live the DIRTY SOUTH! Kings like what?!

hmm, maybe you dont think NY has good beats is because you have been listening to the south hypnotizing beats for so long. first off i like NY's beat better because they are dirty and raw and dont have alot of fuckin crystal,rain dropin, telephone ringin whatever the hell beats. and no one and i mean NO ONE is worried about pdiddy "UP HEAH". Gayz is the only NY rapper i know who is over arrogant. and yes up were i live white boys dont know shit about rap but ROC and some of the south stuff and tupac, a handfull will know of biggie is, and styles, capone, nas? i wont go there. I never said you hicks down there are simple minded, but have no skill when it comes to really rapping. hmm if you think beats make a rapper then listen to Shaqs new song that came out a while ago, nice beat and had fuckin nate dogg on it(like 80% of the new songs do) and when i first saw it come on i aint see it no more lol. need another example? fine listen to a shittie sigel or memphis ass cheek song, or that guy on the fatty girl song. all sounded wack regardless of the sweet ass beats. but unfortunatly simpled minded people buy the shit because they like the beat and pay no attention to the words and those are the same people who cant feel nas, like it or not, 60% of those people are white. You should have been real before instead of hidin your feelings, that makes you fake, and its obvious you cant see shitty rapper when you see one cause your still dazzed from "bling bling" and "big pimpin" you say you can dig some QB shit and then a few lines later dis the fuck out of us, even faker.

And Bama, if nas's shit is wack(which it wont be) ill be the first nigga here to say it. like someone said before i dont see mother fuckas comparing gayzs shit to vol2 so why compare nas's shit and "i am" was a decent cd. you also say Willis is the realest one here? as my man P says "nigga please you waint even league he just follow my lead" another thing for this punk ass Willis,

man dont make me compare some dirty south lyrics to some of QB's, otherwise ill be forced to embarass some of yall hahaha. i already have two comparisons ready to embarass your asses.

hmm it was hard to find one that made any sense to put on here because basicly they are started with fuck or where da. and this particular group seemed to be quite on the perverted side since i saw songs entitled "porno movie" "lick my nuts" "azz and tittiez" so i just chose a random one to put up.

even though you dont want to admit it, you know the QB have the hardest rappers out there.

I want my spot back....There are many people here that I want to address so chill out and pay attention...Big J, you little young ass cockroach, shut the fuck up with all that Queens shit. What part are you from? Jackson Heights? Flushing? Corona? hanging on Junction Blvd? Lefrak Apt Complex? You young bitch needs to show some respect to your elders! My little cousin is a Latin King who goes to Newtown Highschool Im have to tell him to shut your ass up.or I should I give a call to my man King Tone. Im not even in the States but you got me upset with all your yapping about where you are from....Steph, what did you say? Your not even on my level, you child. You are probably from Canmore or Bamf, or outside of Ottawa,or Armstrong, Enderby, in some hick field, who just moved to Montreal, and started hanging out with some Jamaican people and now your probaly listening to some Ragga. You dont know shit hermano/hermana. Cant decide if your a girl or boy? What you didn't think I knew those places, I got people all over the world tough kid!!...The Best, I will spare you, dont know if you came at me or not. Your embarassing yourself with all those weak ass rhymes..3:16, didn't like london much cause of the weather. but I got plenty of people there who represent for me. England is going to the Cup, So is Ecuador!!! Sorry about your man Ose, Im sure he was a fine person....Hillis que fue hermano!! Qoolout, still battling ,huh? and to the person or people who think Tupac is still alive get over it, he is dead, move on with your lives. Steve, whats up brother??...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE, PATRIA o MUERTE-MANNY GUEVARA....Que Viva Ecuador..2002

Yo im feelin' both the East and the South, but in different places. My little brother likes the South cos he gets the beat and he dont get the lyrics yet. I like the South cos it entertains the hell out of me, but i prefer the East cos they kick it how it is (this is my opinion, im not tryin to prophesise to y'all). Not that there are no tight beats in the East (Izzo by Jay-Z, Shoot 'em up by Nas etc), but the East aint on a loop like the South kicks it. The East has been about lyrical content since BDP, or before (I just cant remember when). Thing is, you couldn't play "Criminal Minded" in a club. I agree with you Hillis, y'all down South appreciate tight flow, y'all just get it from the East, and stick to making the dope beats. And fuck Queersbridge, I just seen the provisional cover for STILLmatic, Nas is sat on a wall like Humpty Dumpty gettin' beef from a pigeon!. He just gots to make sure he dont fall off again.

yo this is from "the Bridge is Over" on Criminal minded...

You see me come in any dance wid de spliff of sensei/Down with the sound called BDP/If you want to join the crew well you must see me/Ya can't sound like Shan or the one Marley/Because Shan and Marley Marl dem-a-rhymin like they gay/Pickin up the mic, mon, dem don't know what to say/Sayin that hip-hop started out in Queensbridge/Sayin lies like that, mon, you know dem can't live/So I, tell them again, me come to tell them again, gwan!/Tell them again, me come to tell them agaaain/Tell them again, me come to tell them again, gwan!/Tell them again, me come to te-ell them/Manhattan keeps on makin it, Brooklyn keeps on takin it/Bronx keeps creatin it, and Queens keeps on fakin it

Changin' the subject for a minute, when Makvelli was re-released by Suge after he got out, the "Suge shot me" line was removed.

(This is the last time i'ma say this cos that shit is behind me) R.I.P Ose 1983-2001. Peace

Damn! My last psot was long as hell. Shit, but a few more things. So what if we make tight choruses? Should our choruses suck? I mean, damn, a chorus is the first lyrical part of a song that anybody remembers so it would behoove ANY musician to make it as tight as possible.

And to Steph, I'm not like the other fools who hold it against you because you're white, female, 16, etc. But I heard you say the South has no depth. That's some more bullshit I'm talkin about. Just because you see Southerners jumpin around and gettin buck on BET and MTV, it's stupid for you to think that every Southern song or album is just a club banger. For example, I dare you to go back and check out Outkast's first album (Southernplayalistic) and listen to joints like "Git Up, Get Out" or "D.E.E.P." Even Three 6 has some deep songs. Like "In 2 Deep" is not BET type shit. Hell even Master P comes out with songs about his mama. Damn, every Southern song ain't about throwin elbows or bling bling or tongue rings. Maybe if you people actually listened to a whole album, you would understand.

Y'all east coasters should check out anything by my niggaz Goodie Mob. These cats is as deep as any of those NY dudes. My dog Hillis was on point once again with his last post. Big J, you keep comin' at us like we don't dig the QB scene, dog. I'm not sure how Hillis feels, but I'm down with Mobb Deep and I think Prodigy's joint was dope. I just ain't feelin' Nas like some of y'all. And there's far too much generalizaton goin' on up in here. Hell yeah the South's put out some wack ass, mindless, repetitive bull shit. But there's plenty of garbage bein' spit out of NY niggaz mouths as well. And depth? Are you kidding me? NY dudes might be a little more polished on the mic, but it don't mean that the shit they rap about is deep. Fuck. I love 'Kiss, but do you think his topics are any deeper than anything my Three-Six playas be rappin 'bout. The Lox and Mobb Deep spit about dumb shit all the time. At least Outkast, Goodie Mob and the Dungeon Family have some semblance of political and social consciousness.

Like Havoc once said "Am i holdin it down? im fraid so youngin."

tight choras my ass. the only southern rapper with a good choras is ludacris and a select few. Manny haha you fuckin dumbass, you dont deserve a response from me.3:16, what did i tell you about those punk ass wack lines youngin. you can talk all the shit you want about QB because you know they are the hardest workers out there, unlike the south they say hmm whats this song gonna be called, i know what about where da cheese at? nah we already did that one 3 times. what about where da hoes at? 11 times. oh i know how about where da smoke at? ah perfect now the 15 repeating choras in the begining wil be. "where da smoke at?(yeah whodi) where da smoke at? i wanna smoke"

K Manny what the fuck are u talking about. First off, well i'll say it so u can understand better: que te importa de donde soy, estamos hablando de musica y es solo eso que importa, anda cagar. And the point of this thread isn't to argue and ure goin and picking fights for nothing fuck why u being like that? And u make no sense. Why wouldn't I be from mtl anyway and why wouldn't i sure whether im a girl or guy ahaha what the fuck. And whats that supposed 2 mean...u got ppl all over or wtv u said...ure gonna have ure ppl come battle this shit out with me?? Ure taking this too far, there is nothing 2 fight over, why u doin this?? Well enough bout this shit...

Hillis, ure right, my bad, sorry about that. I don't have anything against the south tho, I did say that, or something like that i don't remember lol. But sorry.

Ah shit i had other shit to say but I can't remember. Oh well. Got class now, later

3:16, I could care less that you stopped being nice, but like you said, no offense meant. None taken on this side and hopefully it's vice versa. Bama, I feel what you were saying, but I gotta disagree with you on what you said about Jada. That man does have his party type songs, but he got his share of deep rhymes too. And Manny, naw I at battlin'; I'm just chillin watching the others go at it. But it's kinda funny to watch, me and you were two of the many who started it. But anyway, keep expressing y'alls opinions; I feel y'all. Holla

Dudes keep talking about how Nas's last three albums were "wack".....dun please! It Was Written was lyrically great and the beats were hot also. I Am was a solid album, but not to Nas's full potential with a dish of those "commercial tracks". Nastradamus was only slacking because duns bootlegged the shyt out of it, and Nasty had to remake the whole phucking album in a month, production and all wo. The reason "the south" receive platinum plaque after platinum plaque after platinum plaque is because their music pertains to suburban america, meaning teenage white males and females cop their lp's. For instance, ask a typical "Brad" what does he think about Ludacris, then ask him how does he feel about Twalib Kweli, dude would probably be like who? I am not knocking the south because they are constantly after the "hustle". Oh and like I said before Nas doesn't give a phuck about sales because his nicest album only went gold, and his wackest album went 3x platinum, the nigga is already rich. Saying this, the south and east contrast in that the souths' albums even though they are WACK will go platinum and they will still be satisfied ex.) Project English, and east cats do care about sales, but they will recognize their album wasn't up to its full potential and will get criticized about it ex.) Nastradamus.

Oh and Bama I have a Goodie Mob album in my collection and their is no substance with their lyrics, what are you talking about? You south niggaz really need to cop Stillmatic when it drops and listen to "One Mic" that joint will cease all your chatter. Oh and Manny, dun who are you, honestly, I could care less if you aren't feelin' my lyrics. KEEP MY NAME FROM YA FINGAZ.

If Nas fell off then he took "hip hop" with him......think about it