Is Everybody Who Edits the Village Voice Really This Stupid?

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although it's almost worth it for the bad joke on your previous thread, what's the deal with calling Drag City "rock-hating" in your Suntanama preview, Chuck? It's almost too bizarre to even respond to, but I'm more puzzled by it than irritated. I mean, do you really think D.C. employees don't sit around the office listening to rock records all day long? And if you're gonna take potshots in print at people based on your skewed perception (unlike your thread about Pitchfork, which was based on the nonsense they actually write), how is what you write any better than Pitchfork?

(I know it's better, most of the time, but things like this make me think that cluelessness is just a matter of degrees.)

hstencil, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 06:11 (twenty-one years ago)

cluelessness is just a matter of degrees

Isn't it?

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 06:13 (twenty-one years ago)

if the Trux aren't rock i don't know what is

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 06:14 (twenty-one years ago)

mostly, yeah.

Anyway, can someone tell me which "dance" record labels are "dance-hating?" I'd like to know.

hstencil, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 06:14 (twenty-one years ago)

duh, warp

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 07:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Astralwerks, possibly. Blount OTM.

Captain Typo (kenan), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 07:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I was THISCLOSE to writing "Warp" before fucking off away from the computer for awhile, I swear to you

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

almost every drag city record i have involve guitar, and most of them id file under a rock label, although some are more acoustic folky. and all of them are a little odd, mostly in a good way. so yes, chuck, what are you talking about?

Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 08:23 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe that few of them actually rock?

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 08:29 (twenty-one years ago)

im afraid nothing rocks like "I Am Star Wars!"

Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 08:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I have no idea whether much of it rocks, per se; I'm just trying to anticipate the response

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 08:36 (twenty-one years ago)

matos otm.

dc in most cases (rtx being one of the exceptions) does not even come close to rocking.

as for Suntanama, more like a burnt out hippy nodding off in his rocking chair with a copy of High Times open on his lap.

also note, however, that because something doesnt rock doesnt mean it isnt good.

still, it's been a long time since dc has really released anything extraordinary. it's roster is now going from grey to white.

jason without the argonauts, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 08:36 (twenty-one years ago)

rocking chairs rock

unknown or illegal user (doorag), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 08:37 (twenty-one years ago)

by definition

unknown or illegal user (doorag), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 08:38 (twenty-one years ago)

exactly.

jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 08:38 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah i do kinda get the feeling that drag city does kinda rely these days on oldham/smog to make them cash and win critical love, and they usually do, i liked both their albums this year a lot. i really like drag city's mick turner releases too. but the more, how should i put this, "neil michael hagerty" sounding side of the label doesnt do much for me these days. but the oldham/smog side of things still gets much love from me

Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 08:45 (twenty-one years ago)

all that said drag city are still a pretty damn fine indie label, and i dont really feel i have the right to criticize them, because i own a fair few drag city records, and a number of them are real favorites

Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 09:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I LOVE this thread to bits.

good on ya h.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 09:20 (twenty-one years ago)

*bites tongue*

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 13:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, context? It would be too easy to take any custom adjective in a record review and consider it puzzling and irritating if taken at face value, I imagine. Would you mind providing the actual review, h?

donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

who cares abt context. there should be more attacks on the village voice just for the sake of it.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I forget the thread it was in, but Chuck and I had a good-humored exchange wherein I noted that both Chuck and Drag City must clearly enjoy AC/DC and he responded with a laugh that he liked them the 'right' way, ie as a dance band. So context, again, is all -- it sounds like he just thinks they hate fun (ho ho).

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

what i mean is.. "rock hating" may not have been intended as a direct slight on the employees of Drag City, but meant more as a comment on the musical output of the roster. This does not mean the term's use was more valid even in context, of course. But I'm just saying the colloquialisms thereof in any music review can be far removed.. which is why i kinda wanted to check out the review before i make any judgements.

donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 13:36 (twenty-one years ago)

i think this thread is a sleeper. it's just getting up a head of steam. i can feel it.

scott seward, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe it will culminate in another xgau sighting

Vic (Vic), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm guessing that aside from the david grubbs and palace stuff that chuck has no interest in, the "rock" stuff that drag city puts out has great big quotes around it. as in: The Fucking Champs really "rock".same with royal trux and shellac. wait, they don't put out shellac. chuck doesn't like shellac though i don't think. oh, hell, what do i know.

scott seward, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Chuck's point is valid, and it's important to shine a light on the labels that have killed rock. Whilst Creed and Sugar Ray sadly toil in semi-obscurity, Will Oldham and Edith Frost are hugely popular. And the finger should be pointed right at Drag City.

I await his missive re: the hip-hop hating sissies over at Bloodshot.

ham on rye (ham on rye), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

The obvious question here to the utter nullification of all others is of course - "is RTX rock?". Elaborate pls

dave q, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 15:59 (twenty-one years ago)

i have never heard an rtx record which convincingly "rocked", but that's not a mark in their minus column, for me.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

You don't think Accelerator rocks?

Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 16:02 (twenty-one years ago)

it's certainly not the first word i would reach for!

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 16:03 (twenty-one years ago)

ha, i mean, it's not like ABC roxx either, but i love them all the same

very little has convincingly "rocked" since the late 70s, and i'm not sure why that's a bad thing necessarily, anymore than lamenting the fact that nothing "swings with the beat of new orleans" anymore.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 16:04 (twenty-one years ago)

times change people! forward! hup hup hup! 1-2-3-4!

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

very little has convincingly "rocked" since the late 70s, and i'm not sure why that's a bad thing necessarily, anymore than lamenting the fact that nothing "swings with the beat of new orleans" anymore.

by this i mean that "rocking" is rarely the primary concern of music which supposedly "rocks" these days. or, even if it ostensibly is, it's way too tangled with other concerns to matter much.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 16:06 (twenty-one years ago)

All right we need to back up and work thru some definitions here -- Accelerator rocks me with one steady roll.

Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 16:07 (twenty-one years ago)

amateurist to thread!

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 16:07 (twenty-one years ago)

the idea that words retain fixed meanings - not just over time, but between people - is one of the hardest things about talking about music.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

by this i mean that "rocking" is rarely the primary concern of music which supposedly "rocks" these days. or, even if it ostensibly is, it's way too tangled with other concerns to matter much.

I blame Billy Joel, the man who pioneered the art of signifying that pretending to rock out is just as good as rocking out.

Well, him and the entire pretense of "art". haha

donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 16:43 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, but even a lot of art-rockers know how to rock. the fall are a good example.you can be arty and weird and ironic and still get people moving.

scott seward, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

but those bands who seem to be saying,"now here is our song that sort of sounds like metal/country/whatever", they hardly ever rock.

scott seward, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Sweet Sixteen actually rocks pretty hard. In a Paice/Glover, Butler/Ward sense. But I'd agree that's pretty much the only one.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

"rock" is the new "fun"

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:01 (twenty-one years ago)

and "smog" is a verb. an action verb. "to smog."

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I already answered this on another thread. Royal Trux certainly never rocked ME, not even when they improved on their boring lo-fi muddle-music bullshit by sounding like Black Crowes I mean Blind Melon I mean Kings of Leon. And Fucking Champs are a dumb art parody band, no matter how many riffs they steal. And otherwise, the music on Drag City has ZILCH to do with rocking. Anyway, here's how the other thread went:

---

a real suprise from the rock-hating piddle-fetishists at Drag City
I don't know what this means, but I can't think of people who "hate rock" LESS than the Drag City folks.

-- Sam J. (xp75hid0...), June 23rd, 2003.


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ac/dc
-- James Blount (littlejohnnyjewe...), June 23rd, 2003.


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Brooks & Dunn have to come out with a single called "All The Good Rock&Roll Drums Are Down In Nashville". alright, that's a shitty title, but it's true. Is that why mutt lange ended up making country-pop?
-- scott seward (skotro...), June 23rd, 2003.


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yeah, ac/dc(who hide all the good drum sounds at their house), and me, and brooks&dunn.we all hate rock less than drag city.
-- scott seward (skotro...), June 23rd, 2003.


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The single is "Red Dirt Road," I think. My favorite songs so far are probably the "Start Me Up"-started-up opener, plus "When We Were Kings," "Memory Town," and "Good Cowboy" (with six or seven more in the running, including Dylan doomsday rap where the Jews fight the junkies, and no, I haven't figured out why they're fighting, or whether it's anti-semetic or junkiphobic for that matter, either. The words are *weird*.) People at In the Red, Sympathy for the Record Industry, Get Hip, Southern Lord, Century Media, and lots of other independent labels hate rock less than people at Drag City. (Man's Ruin is dead, right?) So does Justin Timberlake, probably. Or at least he rocks harder than any record I ever remember hearing on that label. (Though maybe there's stuff I HAVEN'T heard. Maybe I'm WRONG!)
-- chuck (cedd...), June 23rd, 2003

chuck, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, the new Neil Michael Hagerty rocks in places (esp. the live version of "Rockslide" even has the word ROCK in there). Smog occasionally rocks, esp. on Knock Knock, "Cold Blooded Old Times."
Even Oldham has occasionally rocked, like Viva Last Blues's "Work Hard/Play Hard."
A reckless comment to be sure.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Or is he smogging us on?

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:05 (twenty-one years ago)

to claim that Drag City "hates" rock is the problem with this thread.

they're probably as concerned with rocking as they are being wholesome.

drag city is indifferent towards rocking is perhaps more valid.

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:08 (twenty-one years ago)

It's true that Royal Trux does not "rock" in the Justin Timberlake/Brooks & Dunn sense of the word.

Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

actually, Horace, I think Chuck's reckless comment had something to do with Eddie Cochran and Nik Cohn's Rock From the Beginning (which I've still never tracked down, darnit).

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Weird War rocked!

dave q, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Haven't read the preview in question, so I'm being reckless misself.

xpost
Oh, shit that reminded of the Drag City Supersession, that def. rocked. Sabbath cover no less!

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

chuck i can't tell you how much i love the brooks & dunn record. the second track is marvelous. (and yes, it *rocks*)

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:15 (twenty-one years ago)

It's true that Royal Trux does not "rock" in the Justin Timberlake/Brooks & Dunn sense of the word.

...because obviously Timberlake and Brooks & Dunn rock in the exact same way?????

Larcole (Nicole), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, the Top 40 way. That is a way, yes?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:19 (twenty-one years ago)

they re-ish Ghost records too, don't they? although Ghost on record don't always rock as hard as Ghost live. And you have to see Ghost live when they are playing one of their rock sets as opposed to one of their mystictemplegong sets. having said that, one show i saw in philly once rocked like crazy.

scott seward, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Does Chuck's piece reprise the "piddle fetishists" bit, too?

Sam J. (samjeff), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, the Top 40 way. That is a way, yes?

I'd have to disagree.

Larcole (Nicole), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Chuck benefits from a slippage in the word "rock"--I guess a lot of people do. I tend to think this whole vein of criticism benefits a lot from not pinning down words. You can see this as a bad or good thing. There's certainly a kind of frisson that develops as a result of the resulting ambiguities and disagreements. But I feel like it's a little intellectually dishonest (is the Voice intellectual? are friends 'electric'?) to maintain the slippage by design. Maybe I'm just too literal-minded. So you'll pardon me a little logical exercise:

"Rock" can just be an objective assessment ("Scott Walker does not rock") or a subjective one ("Scott Walker ROCKS!") or I suppose one can split the word into two meanings and claim what Chuck occasionally implies--that to ROCK (in the subjective sense) something has to rock (in the objective sense, which remains sketchily defined except for Mr. Diamond's helpful spin). So is he saying that Drag City does not rock (objectively) or that it does not ROCK (subjectively)? Or that it does not ROCK because it does not rock?

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:25 (twenty-one years ago)

You can't 'rock-out' in a 'knowing' way.

doom-e, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:25 (twenty-one years ago)

by "split the word into two meanings" I meant "FUSE the two meanings into one."

Sorry, that botched sentence was the result of a few hasty revisions.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe I should have put an "either" in there.

Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

dude, thinking totally DOESNT rock

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

like, you can't own anything, man....simplify!

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Chuck's argument is hilarious, since DC specializes in music that never claims to be rawk n roll. Talk about an argument that has no balls, calling out Drag City for not releasing rock music. Maybe if he bitched about SFTRI and how they didn't rock, that would be shocking and interesting. Plus considering the large number of popular indie labels that DO rock, it seems a bit fascist to point out one that doesn't and doesn't pretend to.

ham on rye (ham on rye), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

like, Dischord doesn't Adult Contemporary.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe if he bitched about SFTRI and how they didn't rock, that would be shocking and interesting.

But no one would even care and you wouldn't get the pissy indignant bitching evidenced on this thread.

Larcole (Nicole), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Amateurist the only reason I got surly with you on that other thread (which I regret, but I was getting irritated) is because I thought you were being disingenuous. I mean, you're one of the smartest people around here, and I know you've read books of musicology, etc., where writers reference music as being "hot", "cool", "swinging" and so on. I would have thought that you would at least give CE the benefit of the doubt that perhaps he knows what he means when he writes something similar.

I mean, I would have expected hstencil to start this thread (surely a "shockah" if there ever was one). I didn't expect the attitudes displayed towards CE's writing from you, especially when you admit that you've hardly read him. The fact is that CE's been a high-profile writer for, what, well over 15 years now. He's written two books that lay out his aesthetic. At a certain point a writer has "earned the right" (tm) to employ an endemic, consistent stylistic trope and not be saddled with constant explication. Do you make the same criticism of the film writers you hold dear when they make use of similar tics? I mean, maybe you do, I don't know! If Roger Ebert showed up on ILF and started making posts using, I dunno, whatever superwords Ebert uses, would you badger him as preciously?

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

also, there should be an ILx drinking game that involves malapropisms of "fascist".

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 18:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I think if Ceddy came out and talked about how Sympathy for the Record Industry hated rock and didn't rock, it would be an interesting stance. This DC argument is like critiquing a Chinese restaurant by saying the owners hate pizza. Of course they don't hate pizza! They just don't happen to make it.

Jesus I'm hungry.

And Roger Ebert deserves badgering for giving a thumbs down to Rushmore and thumbs up to Tomb Raider 2, that fascist bastard *swig*

ham on rye (ham on rye), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I luvs drag city and don't think the brooks and dunn is quite as good as some think, but there ain't anything on dc that approaches rocking even half as much as red dirt road. but there's too many acts that say they do.

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)

"Rock-hating" just seems a bit extreme. Even if Chuck doesn't think any of DC's records "rock" or contain what he considers to be "rock" music, I'm surprised he feels they "hate" rock and/or rocking. Because clearly they don't.

Sam J. (samjeff), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 18:20 (twenty-one years ago)

can the dc defenders actually put up an argument besides "do not!"?

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 18:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Clearly not.

Larcole (Nicole), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 18:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Drag City:rock::yogurt:ice cream

I like yogurt. I like Drag City. But I never get cravings for either of them. (on the other hand, I agree it's kind of silly to argue that yogurt hates ice cream -- the reverse might be more nearly true -- but it makes for a nice bit of arch commentary which I assume is all that was actually intended)

JesseFox (JesseFox), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Look, I never even said that hating rock was necessarily a BAD thing, did I? Sometimes *I* hate rock. My POINT (inasmuch as there was one) was that I'm very surprised that Drag City Records (who I have nothing especially against, believe it or not -- I mean, sometimes I *like* lo-fi piddle and bullshit -- I even like a couple Smog songs, for crissakes, and I still own my copy of *Demolition Plot J-7*!; {wait was that on Drag City or only *Perfect Sound Forever*? I forget}), that Drag City put out an album by a band who appear unarguably (and apparently unironically, though that's hardly the point, not to mention hardly provable) a ROCK BAND. Not even a great one, as it turns out; a pretty okay one, though. And one that most *mainstream* rock fans from the '70s to the '00s, from Cactus fans to Matchbox 20 fans, would think of as a rock band if they actually heard the record as well. (Which I'm guessing, maybe wrongly, you couldn't say about Royal Trux or Fucking Champs.) Again, I'm not even talking value judgements here; I'm talking about A KIND OF MUSIC DRAG CITY HAS ALWAYS SEEMED (TO ME, ANYWAY) TO AVOID. Which kind of music sometimes rocks, and sometimes does not. (So yeah, "rocking" is an actual thing music DOES; it has to do with rhythm and energy and volume and velocity and momentum, and I've written several thousand words explaining it in my life. And in the past 30 years, non-rock musics like disco and rap and techno and Latin and country and teen-pop and r&b and adult contemporary have often rocked harder than Rock Bands With Guitars, okay? Though again, Drag City seems to avoid both the noun AND the verb. Which just means that's their aesthetic, which is fine! But it's ALSO why it's surprising to see a rock band on their label? Isn't that, like, fucking obvious??) As for Ghost, who I like, I forgot them. I guess OLD music might be allowed to rock on Drag City now and then, as long as it's by crazy Japanese hippies. (Though actually, I think I like Ghost more for being beautiful than for rocking, which I'm not sure they do, though I'll take Scott Seward's word for it for right now since he's a genius.) (As for "Top 40", no, it is NOT a "way" of rocking. Though it might well be *several* ways of rocking. And several ways of not-rocking, for that matter. When it doesn't.) Anyway, I hope I answered everybody's questions. You are all free, now, to go back to hating whatever you hate.

chuck, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Oops, I said "?" when I meant "!" somewhere in that spiel. Oh well.

chuck, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, James, here's my "defense": many of Royal Trux's records (a) are totally "rock," as far as I "classify" it, and (b) for me, they tototally "rock," in all the ways I find the James Gang and Humble Pie and whoever to "rock" (except I find the Trux a lot more exciting and musical and "rocking"). What more do you want to hear?

Sam J. (samjeff), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 18:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I think people have put up arguments aside from that. Besides, no proof exists that they do so the argument has basically been won.

Big difference between not releasing rock because you specialize in other forms or music and actually hating rock.

any argument that essentially says "they do" will likely a lot of "they do not" responses. Shore up your own argument a bit.

ham on rye (ham on rye), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 18:51 (twenty-one years ago)

ok, what if a label releases an album that purports to be 'good old rock n roll' and is instead tired ass hackneyed shit - is it fair to think the label is saying 'good old rock n roll' = tired ass hackneyed shit, and is it fair to think 'gee, maybe they hate rock'?

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Uh, James - "Louisa La Rey" (on that album) is like one of the most awesomest rockin' tunes I know.

Sam J. (samjeff), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:04 (twenty-one years ago)

(but it doesn't sound like AC/DC!)

Sam J. (samjeff), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:04 (twenty-one years ago)

>>ok, what if a label releases an album that purports to be 'good old rock n roll' and is instead tired ass hackneyed shit - is it fair to think the label is saying 'good old rock n roll' = tired ass hackneyed shit, and is it fair to think 'gee, maybe they hate rock'?<

Well, maybe they DO hate rock. So who cares if it's "fair"??

chuck, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:12 (twenty-one years ago)

sigh

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Though maybe it's GOOD, ROCKING tired-ass hackneyed shit, you know?

chuck, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:15 (twenty-one years ago)

what about the Lynnfield Pioneers?

dave q, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:23 (twenty-one years ago)

what about them?

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)

The Lynfield Pioneers should have been shot like dogs. That is all I have to say.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

well from the one ghost record I've heard (Temple stone on PSF) ghost are into droning sounds and english folk music. maybe they have made really diff recs since then.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

They've done all sorts, Mr. Julio, trust me...refer to the AMG for my various rants. ;-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, Ghost seemed like droning folks to me, too. As for Lynfield Pioaneers, I kinda liked that Popcorn album or whatever it was called that they did on Matador. They sounded like they should've come from Cleveland or something. When were they are Drag City? Or weren't they?

chuck, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think they ever were. All I know is I saw them opening for Chris Knox one night and I still curse them for the hour wasted.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Khakis rock, according to that one Gap commercial from a few years ago that used "Busy Child" by The Crystal Method.

felicity (felicity), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

So do Crystal Method, actually. (Hi Felicity!)

chuck, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

connundrum - d.c. does not rock except for ghost, you know, the drone-folk band from japan. well, the album they did with the ex-galaxie 500 crew did not rock. put tht in yer quantifier.

doom-e, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I was as surprised as anyone when the Ghost show i mentioned turned out to be such a rockfest. No drones. No gongs. just amazingly tight songs and friggin' atounding hard rock guitar action. I mean it was perfect in a way. kinda like how High Rise can just plug in and stand there and blow your mind without even sweating. But Ghost do different sets depending upon their mood. it's definitely up there with the ten or twenty best live shows i've ever seen.

scott seward, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

am i missing a completely rockin' ghost album here folks? inform me.

doom-e, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

am being serious. but for now, what i think it will sound like will qualify.

doom-e, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

ok, what if a label releases an album that purports to be 'good old rock n roll' and is instead tired ass hackneyed shit - is it fair to think the label is saying 'good old rock n roll' = tired ass hackneyed shit, and is it fair to think 'gee, maybe they hate rock'? >>>>

Maybe the album in question simply blows. I just don't see any rock-hating myself, just an absence of rock.

Quite likely a rock band might not want to sign onto DC anyway, for fear of being mistaken as another Will Oldham side project.

ham on rye (ham on rye), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

that reminds me- i like wayne and kate and twisted village, etc, etc, they are cool folks- but they opened up this high rise show i saw ( and they opened that ghost show too ) and wayne's on stage doing his rock god solos flipping and flopping until it looks like he's gonna have a heart attack.everyone was digging it but not going crazy. they leave-high rise get on stage-turn on their amps-and just floor the entire crowd without moving a muscle. it was quite the study in contrasts.

scott seward, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

just use the homer litmus test. "when my head goes from side-to-side" it means, don't stop the rock. "when my head goes up and down it means ... yes, don't stop the rock"

now, what about a rockin' ghost album - would it pass the homer litmus test?

doom-e, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 20:11 (twenty-one years ago)

that Ghost show was unlike any record i have by them and any other live show i had seen.but they can rock on record. i would love to have that show on record.

scott seward, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Cool. Hey. Isnt the guy who started the thread Smog's US Tour Manager? Conflict-of-interest, there???

doom-e, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

By the way, this column-about-singles I wrote in the Voice a while back begins with my favorable review of a Drag City record which I like (though I can't remember right now if it rocks or not. So there):

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0113/eddy.php

chuck, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

that night at least they were like the world's greatest arena/hard rock/psych band playing for 150 drunk louts in philly.

Hey Doom-e, do you like Sour Vein? Or have you heard them? I never have, and it turns out that one of my best friends from high school is their guitarist. they have an album on Southern Lord, I think.

scott seward, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

"rocking" is an actual thing music DOES; it has to do with rhythm and energy and volume and velocity and momentum

Nerdly aside: I wonder if it would be possible to write some kind of computer program that did a spectral analysis on a clip of music and rated it's rockitude on a scale of 1 to 100. It might save music critics a lot of trouble, and there'd be fewer arguments over who does and doesn't rock. (And no, before anyone asks, spectral analysis has nothing to do with ghosts... or Ghost.)

o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't take doom-e seriously?

''They've done all sorts, Mr. Julio, trust me...refer to the AMG for my various rants. ;-)''

nothing like a bit of self-promotion eh?

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

nah i never heard of them. link me up. i've got to get back to work!! yikes, i'm sad.

at least c. eddy does not have to think a) does it rock? an b) will it make a sixteen seem super cool and fly if he bought it. i use the homer litmus test before i say something rocks!

not being taken seriously is rockin'! we are talking about rock'n'roll here, taking it seriously does not rock! listen to me, i love the cult ...

doom-e, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I hesistate over the use of 'rock' in reviewing dead meadow live, because the homer test was successful, twenty minutes in, but, was not sustained during the whole show.

doom-e, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 20:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I've got to jet, Scott, but link me up with some info on the band...

doom-e, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

it's kinda funny to just watch doomie running into the wall over and over

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 23:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey doom-e-sorry i think i confused you with somebody else. i don't think you would like my friend's band. although they are doomy. i don't know why i did that. i thought i had everyone straight. i actually listened to one of their songs on the southern lord website and it wasn't bad if you have a bale of weed handy. yeah, you write for a brit paper or mag, no? i think i was thinking of mr.null frame and not you. my bad.

scott seward, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 23:48 (twenty-one years ago)

scott can you like 'burn' me a copy (laughs until snot flies out)

dave q, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 23:57 (twenty-one years ago)

holy shit that was funny. geddit, 'burn'!

dave q, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 23:57 (twenty-one years ago)

dave, you didn't run out of weed again, did you?

scott seward, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 00:09 (twenty-one years ago)

god, nobody gets my irony on here. no wonder i hardly post here.

doom-e, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 04:45 (twenty-one years ago)

small wonder

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 04:58 (twenty-one years ago)

did you failed yer audition for 'oz' - no - o.k. - you can look elsewhere for yer prison bitch.

doom-e, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 05:17 (twenty-one years ago)

'oz' is off the air punk

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 05:23 (twenty-one years ago)

woah woah woah - from cotts this week on internal upheaval, layoffs at the voice - "What's more, many staffers dislike the redesign that debuts in next week's issue. All pieces in the back of the book will be shortened, including the lead reviews. Champions hope the new layout will appeal to younger readers by offering more "points of entry," while detractors say it will trivialize the content." - WHAT THE FUCK?!!!! BAD IDEA

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 05:53 (twenty-one years ago)

okay I'm back, and upon reading this thread I don't see any sufficient explanation from Chuck as to why to throw those two words in there. The fact that he wrote a favorable review of another D.C. record actually backs up my thought that maybe it was a stupid idea to include those words, as they didn't reveal anything about Suntanama (who don't seem that much an anomaly on the label to me - there's been more than a few other rock and/or meandering hippy-ish bands and 60s legacies on the label as Ghost, Red Krayola, Royal Trux, etc. come to mind) or the label.

Also, clearly a bunch of people missed my point if they think this thread was supposed to be about whether Drag City "rocks" or not. They could release Eastern European polka techno thrash jazz records for all anyone who reads the preview could care - the point is it said "rock hating" not "rock non-releasing." Why Chuck or any other critic feels they have the authority to make such assumptions is beyond me. And yes, I have a conflict of interest: I only saw the preview because I was looking for the (Smog) preview, written by another author, which only seemed to mention how said author thinks Bill Callahan makes music to showcase his "weirdness," another ridiculous assertion by someone who seems incapable to describe the music or experience in any significant way as to actually help a Voice reader make a decision whether or not to go to the show (not that it mattered: we had 359 at the Bowery that night anyway).

And finally, amateurist, I believe I've only ever gotten in any sort of "online dispute" with Chuck over the dub metal thread. I certainly don't try to bait him, as should be patently obvious. However, no matter how many books he's written, I do feel that it's certainly within my rights to call out anything that I see as bullshit, so that's what I chose to do with this thread. It wouldn't matter to me if it was Chuck who wrote it or whomever; I thought it was ridiculous, and I said so. Why some people around here choose to be so cowed by those they deem the "experts" is beyond me.

hstencil, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 06:28 (twenty-one years ago)

why some people continue to think music journalism should just be doing the jobs of record labels pr depts is beyond me

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 06:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, (and since noone's provided a link to the actual blurb in question I'm just guessing here - habeas corpus people!), but it seems to read 'unlike the rest of that pussy shit drag city usually releases suntanama actually rock' and you're complaints a bit, um, insufficient - are you angry cuz you find the notion that drag city releases pussy shit ridiculous or are you angry cuz it doesn't do a good enough job promoting the show?

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 06:37 (twenty-one years ago)

and again, haven't read the blurb so maybe it did make sense, but the notion that bill callahan releases his music to showcase his weirdness is absurd.

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 06:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Hstencil...fair enough!

doom-e, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 07:23 (twenty-one years ago)

And finally, amateurist, I believe I've only ever gotten in any sort of "online dispute" with Chuck over the dub metal thread. I certainly don't try to bait him, as should be patently obvious. However, no matter how many books he's written, I do feel that it's certainly within my rights to call out anything that I see as bullshit, so that's what I chose to do with this thread. It wouldn't matter to me if it was Chuck who wrote it or whomever; I thought it was ridiculous, and I said so. Why some people around here choose to be so cowed by those they deem the "experts" is beyond me.

HStencil I think you might be reading someone else's post and attributing it to me. I never even mentioned you on this thread or any past conflicts with Chuck. Your words actually could have come out of my mouth, for what it's worth; I entirely agree. I've been accused numerous times of baiting him myself and I don't think challenging a professional rock critic when he makes a dismissive comment in print is baiting at all. And I don't think Chuck has quite explained why the comment was made. In context it does seem pejorative, but at one point on this thread he claims he was just making some kind of observation, whcih begs the question, of what value was the observation alone?

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh I think you might have been reading Mr. Diamond's post *about me*.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

The blurb, verbatim:

"Featuring three members of NYC free-jazz avant-drone ensemble the No Neck Blues Bland, the Suntanama are an anomaly on rock-hating Drag City. People who've never heard a Point Blank album peg them a 'Southern Rock,' though their lazy drawls are more *Workingman's Dead* than *Street Survivors,* more 'Nantucket Sleighride' than 'Missisippi Queen,' more hippie or grunge than redneck. But they can be dadburn gorgeous about it."
----

And again, if Drag City didn't hate music that rocks, I expect they would put out some music that actually DOES rock. THEY make their decisions about what to release; I don't. And one would expect those decisions to be based on the label's tastes (and what music they think might be profitable with the audience they've established, and so on, but let's not get into that). It's pretty darn simple. (For the record, even Suntanama don't rock as much as I wish they would. But either way, they're straightforward enough to sound to ME like an anomaly. And guess what? It was MY FUCKING PREVIEW. Which means it's based on what MY ears hear. What Hstencil hears doesn't matter at all!)

chuck, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, they put out music with rock TRAPPINGS. Like, guitar bands and stuff. If they were salsa label, I doubt I'd call them rock-hating; what would be the point? But then again, if they were a salsa label, they'd also put out more rocking music than they do now.

chuck, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030806/capt.1060166625.britain_heatwave_lon801.jpg

Sam J. (samjeff), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Jeez, get a life people. Starting a pissy bitch-ass thread over two words in a listings preview? Lame.

it's sunny, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

But again (& again & again) "hating rock" is hardly the worst crime on earth. I don't particularly think Drag City hates prettiness; in fact they seem to kind of LIKE prettiness. Which is a GOOD thing.

chuck, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

But Drag City does put out music that rocks: eg, Suntanama.

Sean M (Sean M), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 14:54 (twenty-one years ago)

So saying the band " are an anomaly on rock-hating Drag City" is another way of saying they ROCK. Why not just say that? Or better yet, explain HOW they rock.

(x-post)

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I DID. Uh, read the fucking preview, Amateurist. And the reason to "not just say that" is that IT WOULDN'T BE VERY GOOD WRITING.

chuck, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 14:58 (twenty-one years ago)

It's not anyway, Chuck.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

why does it matter whether they rock or not? why is "rocking" seen as such a primary attribute for their music to have? for what it's worth most drag city stuff does NOT rock (and i don't care, i like quite a lot of it), but i think it's the use of the word "hating" that may be the problem... it's like calling carpark a dance-hating label coz they make electronica that doesn't really function as rave music. they might not make dance music but it doesn't necessarily mean they hate it... prob quite the opposite... then again i'm neither agreeing/disagreeing w/ anyone coz this is all a bit daft. as said earlier: really, honestly, it is only two words in a preview - it's hardly the end of the world...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 15:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Let us not keep that fact from us TYPIING THINGS IN CAPITAL LETTERS.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 15:04 (twenty-one years ago)

actlly let me qualify the carpark comment: electronica that doesn't function as rave music at all!

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 15:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I went to a Carpark show this weekend and the guy from No Doctors was dancing. But I think that proves your point.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

If people have been following Chuck's other posts on this board, I don't think they would be too surprised to see him use the term "rock-hating" in this context. He made much the same point about Guided By Voices on this thread. Here's what he had to say about them:

As far as I can see, they do the exact thing all those Elephant 6 groups do -- take perfectly good '60s rock, subtract all the energy and rhythm and catchiness and push from it, thereby turn it wispery and watery and bland, and pretend that makes it "weird" or something.
-- chuck (ceddy@vil...), March 28th, 2003 5:31 PM.

This seems to be a long-standing gripe with him about a lot of what passes for indie rock.

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I hate rock and so I was quite interested in Drag City when I heard they did too but now it seems I was wrong to be, oh well.

I like that Big Flame comp., mind.

Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 15:24 (twenty-one years ago)

''"Featuring three members of NYC free-jazz avant-drone ensemble the No Neck Blues Bland, the Suntanama are an anomaly on rock-hating Drag City.''

I have no probs with calling labels that release recs by guitar bands as 'rock-hating'. In fact, that's a what labels should be aiming for.

Rock can't just stay the same, that road leads to wynton marsalis type museum music and that's the last thing I would like.

Were SST rock? obv some bands on it live on 'rock' but they changed it to something by synthesizing (sp?) other precursors together.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 15:27 (twenty-one years ago)

like st.vitus. they synthesized black sabbath with more black sabbath.

scott seward, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 15:33 (twenty-one years ago)

haha well...SST 'canon'.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 15:36 (twenty-one years ago)

yes but not enough more imo

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 15:38 (twenty-one years ago)

>>IT WOULDN'T BE VERY GOOD WRITING.
It's not anyway, Chuck.<<

Probably true (again, IT WAS JUST A FRIGGING SHWOW PREVIEW, Y'KNOW? --and hey, Amateurist, you use capital letters too --i,.e. "So saying the band 'are an anomaly on rock-hating Drag City' is another way of saying they ROCK. Why not just say that? Or better yet, explain HOW" -- which is fine with me, seeing how italics aren't available here and all.) But again, my point, obviously, is that merely saying "they rock" (which again, they DON'T, not as much as they SHOULD) would have been (even) *less* interesting. Though I keep forgetting that lots of indie-rock fans *like* being bored. I'll make a note of it.)

SST was not a rock-hating label, I don't think. Though it WAS too slow, a lot of the time. (After it stopped being too fast, I guess.) For the record, I always prefered DC-3 to Painted Willie or Das Damen.

chuck, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

shwow = show (unless you're elmer fudd or nelly or chingy or somebody, and you grew up in mwissouwi, the shwow-me state.)

chuck, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Something about this thread reminds me of the Whitewater investigation.

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

whitewhater

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:11 (twenty-one years ago)

so i guess this makes hstencil ken starr and amateurist linda tripp?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I was making fun of myself with the caps comment!

(x-posts)

If I take Chuck to task with more tenacity than others here, it's because writing about music is his profession! That seems simple enough to me.

Chuck: I think you're being a little disingenuous. You have put D.C. and "indie rock" down several times on this and other threads, and you have implied several times that to not-rock means something is likely "boring," etc. ("lots of indie-rock fans *like* being bored"). But you have also claimed (above) that you were simply making an observation in claiming D.C. were rock-haters, and that you meant no slur by it. You say it's OK if a band does not-rock, but in such a way as it seems they have to get a special pass to do so.

Hmmm, I just thought of something...

TS: ROCK critics vs. MUSIC critics

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean is the job of a rock critic to determine if something ROCKS (or rocks) or not? If so I politely withdraw.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:19 (twenty-one years ago)

if people have a problem with "rock-hating" they should just mentally substitute that with the word "bloodless". although drag city in a roundabout way did re-ish my fave squirrel bait albums thanks to david grubbs. although squirrel bait were actually kinda strangely bloodless for a bunch of hick teens with a husker du jones.(arty lyrics-phil ochs cover) though they did rock. and they invented grunge. so drag city did involve themselves with records that created a rock monster.(after the fact,of course) though a lot of big rock fans kinda hated the whole grunge thing. hmmmm...i'll get back to you.

scott seward, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Is this what ROCK critics do for a living? Sit around a discuss which records are BLOODLESS and which aren't?

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

(sorry whoops mondo snarkiness there whoops sorry.)

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

all of my internet-music-geeks-coming-out-of-the-woodwork-to-shake-their-hairy-palms-at-me trouble started when i mocked squrrel bait. d.c. is cursed! chuck flee now!!

amateurist do you honestly still question why people think you're a troll?

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

These are genuine questions I ask!

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I keep forgetting that lots of indie-rock fans *like* being bored

I don't think indie fans like being bored - I just think that for the most part (and these are all broad generalizations) they don't find the simple act of rocking to be terribly interesting. I went through a phase of a few years in which indie rock was my primary listening material, and I still listen to a fair amount of it. As an indie listener, I was less concerned about whether something rocked than about whether it challenged my conception of what rock should be. I wanted to hear something rock in a new way. Naturally when you're trying to rock in a new way, there will be naysayers who claim that you don't rock at all. The same thing happens in jazz - you have the traditionalists claiming that free jazzers don't "swing". That's the chance you take when you try not to sound like everyone else.

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

i like a lot of bloodless music.

scott seward, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

a lot of jazz and even a lot of free jazz rocks like hell!

scott seward, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:29 (twenty-one years ago)

People who've never heard a Point Blank album peg them a 'Southern Rock'...

compare that to the first sentence in this post...

so is it safe to say you've never heard a Point Blank album?

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

i like lots of rocking music that doesn't sound like anything else. and SOME nonrocking bloodless music that doesn't sound like anything else, too. but given the choice, i'd take the former, since it's got something the latter doesn't have (i.e.: blood!). and the best way to challenge my conception of what rock can be is probably by not being a rock band, but rocking me anyway. then again, i'm a BLOOD critic.

Though only WOMEN bleed, of course.

chuck, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean, the whole "people who have never heard..." elitist bulljive is basically "your indie guilt is showing" reduxe... and is ESPECIALLY lame when the author's ultimate summation of the band flip flops around at his whimsy.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:37 (twenty-one years ago)

all of my internet-music-geeks-coming-out-of-the-woodwork-to-shake-their-hairy-palms-at-me trouble started when i mocked squrrel bait. d.c. is cursed! chuck flee now!!

amateurist do you honestly still question why people think you're a troll?

-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), August 6th, 2003 1:22 PM. (dubplatestyle) (link)

I can't stand it anymore.

J (Jay), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:39 (twenty-one years ago)

>>People who've never heard a Point Blank album peg them a 'Southern Rock'...
compare that to the first sentence in this post...
so is it safe to say you've never heard a Point Blank album?<

Nah -- Just that I hadn't listened to the Suntanama album closely enough when I made that earlier post. (So the flipflop has nothing to do with my "whimsy".) Point Blank's debut album rocks, for sure.

chuck, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:39 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_132.html

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Rock is in my blood

s hagar, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:41 (twenty-one years ago)

but what if the flip flops are actually representational of an indeterminate relationship with a record and, thus, genuine reflects the protean listening experience?

Sam The Horse (Jacob Beardsley), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

"closely"

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

someday, if ilm is around long enough, these arguments will be listed in the farmers almanac, along with the tides and the proper time to plant alfalfa.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Not everyone can be as saturnine and Above It All as Strongo, I suppose.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Some superheros emit fire from their fingertrips, Strongo emits scorn.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

How. To. Visualize??

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

the League Of Bitter Hermits rebukes you.

jack cole (jackcole), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

>>"closely"<<

Yeah, closely. What's wrong with admitting that?... and besides, saying they're called Southern Rock by people who've never heard Point Blank isn't the same as saying the ONLY people who call them Southern Rock are people who've never heard Point Blank. (And also besides, flip-flops in opinions about music are a GOOD thing; always have been. Why would you trust somebody who never changes his mind?) Not that I have anything whatsoever against people who've never heard Point Blank. Whoever the hell Point Blank are. (And also also besides, the first sentence of that link above was FOLLOWED by my hedging about how Suntanama could sure as hell be a lot MORE Southern Rock. So it's not like I changed my mind all THAT much, anyway.)


chuck, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

And I still say they drawl lazily, too. Which = SORT OF Southern.

chuck, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 17:05 (twenty-one years ago)

so wa sup with you and jess just wnated to say hi and say that i gope i can babysit brittney soon cuz i love spending time with her she is so cool and funny she loves to laugh the 1st time that i babysat her we were out side playing babmonton and all she did was laugh and sometimes when she laughed all i did was hit the birdie. the next time i babysit her i am going to get her to show me her dance cha cha it was so cute and it was really good she is good at all kinds of stuff iam glad that you di not already ahve a babysitter cuz then i would not know brittney and i really like spending time with her oh ya william says hi he doe not have an e-mail address so he told me to say hi.right now i am writng ot you form the library cuz william is in art camp and i told him that i was going to write to you so he wanted me to say hi to you for him i would take him doewn with me the next time i babysit brittney but

doom-e, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 17:31 (twenty-one years ago)

poor doomie!

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

word.

doom-e, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 17:58 (twenty-one years ago)

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

word.

doome, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

one that most *mainstream* rock fans from the '70s to the '00s, from Cactus fans to Matchbox 20 fans,
would think of as a rock band if they actually heard the record as well. (Which I'm guessing, maybe wrongly, you couldn't say about Royal
Trux or Fucking Champs.)

Okay. I can see that. I could see "rock" rock fans responding favourably to specific songs by RT or FC or even NMH, but certainly not entire albums.
It's hilarious, sometimes, when you write for a large audience, how people will glom on to something you merely intended to be entirely self-evident and offhand, and whatever. Y'know.
Cripes. But, uh, from what I can tell, it was still reckless. Not that that's a value judgment either.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

But since when should criticism NOT be "reckless"? Reckless is fun! (Best songs: "Summer of '69," "Run to You," and "Ain't Gonna Cry" -- the latter primarily for the dumpster solo, of course.)

chuck, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh wait, you said it *wasn't* a value judgement. Sorry!

chuck, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I think perhaps the most perfect encapsulation of the whole ambivalent indie attitude towards rocking-as-a-verb can be found in the drippingly sarcastic way that Black Francis sings "Oh let it rock" in the Pixies' song "UMass".

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I, for one, would like to see the indie world finally embrace the term "rock your world" (as in, "baby, let me...") as a euphemism for doing the deed (as in finalizing real estate deals).

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

"Hating" was the wrong word, I think, unless Drag City is like PiL c. Flowers of Romance (sorry, I mean FLOWERS OF ROMANCE, we're using caps here), who hated what rock had become and wanted to destroy it. I've actually heard little or nothing on Drag City, but I can imagine (correctly or incorrectly) that the music on it in fact represents quite well what rock has become, hence makes ME rock hating (assuming that I wouldn't like what I'd heard on Drag City, if I'd heard it).

This thread has not lived up to its title.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

well, that's cuz it was always just an 'artist whining about a critic' by proxy instead of an actual attempt at a logistical beatdown

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Did I really read this entire thread? Do I understand anything more about music other than rock gets to your brain and circulates by your heart's good grace? Is it appropriate to use the term Rock-sucking 'ho? Or if not appropriate, at least accurate? Perhaps only in the case of Jennifer Herrema? For the answers to these and other questions - tune in - same rock-hating time, same rock-hating channel...

Chris P, Thursday, 7 August 2003 06:25 (twenty-one years ago)

who are you talking to?

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Thursday, 7 August 2003 06:32 (twenty-one years ago)

who you got?

Chris P, Thursday, 7 August 2003 08:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think it's possible in 2003 for rock music to hate or destroy itself, at least if it is the people listening are probably still rock fans. I am not familiar with PiL but I'd imagine the potential for new schisms in rock was alot higher 20 odd years ago than it is now.

There are plenty of dance labels who hate what dance music has become, Warp and Music For Freaks are two which spring to mind, but it's unfair to pick out Music For Freaks when there are probably loads of other up their ass house labels out there who whinge about how dated everything is. Also I quite like the Freaks.

Hating what dance music has become is the music equivalent of "Student Feels World Politics Shows Elements Of Injustice". Hating what rock music has become is kind of an erratic beast.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:00 (twenty-one years ago)

MFF isn't dance-hating tho' partic as it's a sister label classic, which is pretty dance-loving... it's just a another sid eof to regular dance music, which i pretty much what drag city does w/ rock -
thus my original idea of "hating" being the wrong word to use stands up... would you agree w/ this chuck? anyway, i still really don't care but considering the trubble this has caused, i'm deffo plagiarising messrs eddy and matos for the next time i review a warp record, just to see what happens when i call them dance-hating... does anyone mind?!

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:43 (twenty-one years ago)

i may even type the review properly - it's early and i'm in a rush at work - forgive me...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not so sure Dave, house hating then maybe? All I ever hear from the Freaks is how utterly shit everything is. If not dance hating then snobbery to mind boggling levels.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:46 (twenty-one years ago)

oh i agree and they are quite shitheaded (to borrow a joe queenanism) abt it, too. i mean i like what they do but they're hardly reinventing the wheel or anything - their stuff is v v v uninspired when juxtaposed w the likes of isolee, akufen, villalobos, superpitcher and any other artist in my arbitrary list of current favourites...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:51 (twenty-one years ago)

but they're basically everything i dislike about the MOR, "tasteful" Brithouse scene: it's like a club for petulant middle-class boys and as such does my nut in...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Not sure how much you consider MOR and tasteful but I reckon I probably agree and I say that as someone who loves house more than any other genre, I'm so much more into the pop influenced stuff or the scuzzy e stuff than any of the soul tradition nonsense.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Yo, Hstencil, if you're still reading this, what happened to your tour blog? I was really enjoying it.

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 7 August 2003 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

The tour ended, so therefore, no blog?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 August 2003 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, I see. I thought it was weird that all the previous posts had disappeared.

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 7 August 2003 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, now having no archive, that IS weird.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 August 2003 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

the tour is not over, but the blog is.

If previews don't count, then why write them? Also, why would Drag City be interested in having me collect them in every town? Duh, Chuck, because they do matter and you know it. I agree that a critic should not be a P.R. hack for the label (there are plenty of those already at most alt-weeklies in America, believe me), but I also don't think that a critic need display so much venom towards stuff that he may later claim he didn't listen to.

(and also it may be that since the night I submitted my rebuttal, I also had to worry about bailing someone out of the Allegheny County Jail the next day, so take this all with a grain of salt.)

hstencil, Friday, 8 August 2003 07:28 (twenty-one years ago)

spill spill!

nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Friday, 8 August 2003 07:32 (twenty-one years ago)

When did I say previews don't count, and when did I display venom for something I might later claim I didn't listen to? My preview counted, the venom was warranted, and you're still being a moron.

chuck, Friday, 8 August 2003 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

The preview was also POSITIVE, for Crissakes. I wouldn't be surprised if it BROUGHT people to the band's show. And of COURSE if I complain about Drag City, people at Drag City will disagree with me. Why the hell wouldn't they? That's their job. But giving them something to agree with is not MY job. (And if your complaint is that I can't make generalizations about a label's sound without hearing every note of every record the label has released, I'm sorry. You're full of shit.)

chuck, Friday, 8 August 2003 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.slagoon.com/store/book3.gif

amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 8 August 2003 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

You're full of shit.

You first, rock hater.

hstencil, Saturday, 9 August 2003 07:21 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.umich.edu/~iinet/cjs/films/reviews/pics/sonatine.jpg

Adrian (Adrian Langston), Saturday, 9 August 2003 07:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think the Royal Trux question was adequately addressed here myself.

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually I suppose it was just left as undecideable, given "knowingness" and no-one can define "rockin" anyway, but Chuck did you ever hear them? Particularly, like got said above a lot, 'Accelerator'?

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:54 (twenty-one years ago)

why is everyone suddenly conflating winky winky faux-80s production and skeletons of songs with "rockin"?!

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Cos it makes me dance and yell mofo

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:58 (twenty-one years ago)

The production's a big part of that record, so yeah if you don't like it it's a bummer, but how do skeletal songs inhibit the rock?

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 10 August 2003 09:00 (twenty-one years ago)

they don't i suppose. i guess i'm just making some arbitrary distinction between "skeletal" and "sparse", where the former is a code word for "unfinished or half-assed" and the latter just means there's a lot of a space in the songs. (so, like, nickelback can be "skeletal" and the fall are "sparse".)

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 10 August 2003 09:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I was thinking of 'Four Sticks' when you said that

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 10 August 2003 09:05 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...
Other labels that don't rock:

Rounder
Deutsche Grammophone
Blue Note

I've found the anti-post-rock and anti-indie backlash so dismaying for the past few years, not because I think anyone has to like the goddamn stuff, but because at the heart of it seem to be certain irritating assumptions about music is supposed to be -- i.e. raucous, fun, danceable, simple, etc. Lots of great music fits those terms, and lots more doesn't. Guitar bands =/= (necessarily) "Rock TRAPPINGS" as Chuck put it. Drag City tends to put out introspective, thoughtful, quiet stuff. I don't find the best of it *boring* in the slightest (Jim O'Rourke's solo work, the better Oldham and Smog stuff). But it's listening music more than "rocking" music. I didn't think guitars came with indication labels about how they are to be used.

I think a lot of the current bands that "rock" are much more worthy of ridicule (the garage revivalists in particular) because their music is such a bland, forced exercise in rocking. And what's worse is that a lot of their fans don't even *rock out* to it, so what's the point of rocking anyway? Not to say that Chuck or any of DC's other detractors necessarily like those bands.

For the record, "Insignificance" ROCKS, IMHO.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 02:30 (twenty years ago)

dammit. based on that first post alone, I've got to go and read this whole thread now.

Carl Winslow is WHAT!?!? (deangulberry), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 02:48 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I don't really care so much about the original post. I was just browsing old threads about "post-rock" and felt like venting.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 02:52 (twenty years ago)

xpost:
I'm going to try and avoid that by saying: I'm new to this this thread and would like to get a bearing so I ask- are the Boards of Canada "rock-hating"? I searched the page and couldn't find them.

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 02:54 (twenty years ago)

OMG! Best thread ever!

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:02 (twenty years ago)

Boards Of Canada are pro-narcolepsy. i dunno about there love for rock.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:03 (twenty years ago)

You're nibbling the bait while trying not to spring the trap, my VV-associated friend.

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:05 (twenty years ago)

Small Wonder pictures! Twice!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:06 (twenty years ago)

I heard that Boards of Canada record "Music Has the Right to blah" for the first time a few weeks ago, it was one of those I'd missed somehow. It's pretty great.

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:17 (twenty years ago)

Is this thread about that AC/DC album that Drag City is putting out in 2005?!

Carl Winslow is WHAT!?!? (deangulberry), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:17 (twenty years ago)

Boards of Canada have the same initials as Blue Oyster Cult, Scott!!

Otherwise, um...I think I liked some album on Drag City a lot this year, but I can't think of what it was. (Did this year's Ghost one come out on Drag City? That was nice.) My Rock-Hating Label of the Year Award, though, would possibly go to Temporary Residence, for its sheer consistency in putting on truly beyoooooootiful elevator noise which I could read books and wash the dishes and then fall asleep to.

chuck, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:18 (twenty years ago)

mmmm, temporary residence. my label of the year. did you like the Cex reissue they put out, chuck? that might have been their most rocking release.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:22 (twenty years ago)

I actually thought the label was going to slowly die until the Joanna Newsom disc hit big. The new splash page for the DC announces "Superwolf," a collaboration between Matt Sweeney and Bonnie Prince Billy. I have my doubts, to be honest, but I'll give it a listen.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:23 (twenty years ago)

Otherwise, um...I think I liked some album on Drag City a lot this year, but I can't think of what it was.

chuck, do you realize that this reads like self-parody?

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:27 (twenty years ago)

(and if it's true it's pathetic.)

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:28 (twenty years ago)

(or it could be alzheimer's.)

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:30 (twenty years ago)

.

Carl Winslow is WHAT!?!? (deangulberry), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:32 (twenty years ago)

Ned, I think it's time to mention the Small Wonder pictures again.

Next BOC release: Don't Fear the Tinky-Winky 12"
(someone do better than this, please)

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:37 (twenty years ago)

DJ Kamandi to thread!

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:40 (twenty years ago)

Ned, I think it's time to mention the Small Wonder pictures again.

Yowsa!

Also, nothing wrong with falling asleep music; then again I have fallen asleep at some extremely loud shows before.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:51 (twenty years ago)

haha, this is the thread where i outed chuck as a Flip-Flopper. ah good times.

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:58 (twenty years ago)

xpost:
I seem to recall some episode of the old Dick Van Dyke show where he was in trouble because he went AWOL or missed his wedding or something and his alibi depended on his having slept through The Guns Of Navarone, which nobody believes (because apparently they think the guns are blasting throughout the whole movie, when in reality there is probably 85 minutes of strategizing and five minutes of blasting?)

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 04:00 (twenty years ago)

i fell asleep in black hawk down AND first blood so i can relate.

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 04:08 (twenty years ago)

I fall asleep a lot at movies I like, it just shows that I am relaxed.

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 04:10 (twenty years ago)

I fell asleep at a No Means No show once, but only during the opening acts. (One of which I think may have been Sister Double Happiness, so maybe it was an MSG-related nap.)

I also fell asleep during my one and only visit to CBGBs, to see Camper Van Beethoven, of all bands. How not punk is that?

But by all means, proceed.

philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 04:12 (twenty years ago)

Is Everybody Who Posts to This Thread Really This Sleepy?

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 04:18 (twenty years ago)

I wish I had fallen asleep when I saw Camper Van Beethoven.

RS LaRue (rockist_scientist), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 04:18 (twenty years ago)

Then I would have missed it.

RS LaRue (rockist_scientist), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 04:18 (twenty years ago)

Sleep to thread!

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 04:19 (twenty years ago)

It was something like a defense mechanism, I do believe. Thank god for natural reflexes.

philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 04:20 (twenty years ago)

i fell asleep at a straightedge hardcore show in brewster, new york after having my wrist broken in 3 places by a big straightedge sneaker. actually, i might have passed out. the rumplemintz was flowing. I was neither "bold" nor "aware". hahaha, i think that's who was playing. but what do i know. all those muscley little fellas looked the same to me.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 04:21 (twenty years ago)

I'm sleepy. i'm going to bed. i'm gonna read a little Peter DeVries and then hit the hay. I have to take a driving test tomorrow! I want to be snappy in the morning!

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 04:22 (twenty years ago)

I thought this was the best thread ever till I read this:

chuck, do you realize that this reads like self-parody?

-- Amateur(ist) (amateurist@gmail.com), January 4th, 2005.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(and if it's true it's pathetic.)
-- Amateur(ist) (amateurist@gmail.com), January 4th, 2005.

now I REALLY think it is!

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 06:21 (twenty years ago)

if only dave q were here to save us from the horror.

mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 06:33 (twenty years ago)

i don't know, as per the pickle bar thread, i think it's dubious to say you really liked something you purposely played (presumably several times) and have no recollection of what it is. and it's suspicious when stories like that get told over and over and over again, like the author takes some pride in his indifference. it's so "real"!

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 07:02 (twenty years ago)

chuck eddy, you stand accused of severe incompetence both in life and in your chosen career.

Carl Winslow is WHAT!?!? (deangulberry), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 07:15 (twenty years ago)

this thread has made me love Amateur(ist) even more than i used to.

t0dd swiss, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 07:20 (twenty years ago)

Royal Trux?
Ghost?
Weird War?
Vocokesh?
The Nig-Heist?
WTF?

Nanker Phelge, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 08:04 (twenty years ago)

i don't know, as per the pickle bar thread, i think it's dubious to say you really liked something you purposely played (presumably several times) and have no recollection of what it is.

especially when he follows it by saying what it was (Ghost)!

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 08:05 (twenty years ago)

My Rock-Hating Label of the Year Award, though, would possibly go to Temporary Residence, for its sheer consistency in putting on truly beyoooooootiful elevator noise which I could read books and wash the dishes and then fall asleep to.

now chuck that's gonna just get you in bigger trouble, as the guy who runs that label is a close friend of mine.

(yeah, most of what he puts out ain't rock by any stretch, but the dude is majorly into some good rock stuff, I can vouch for it.)

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 08:16 (twenty years ago)

but he likes the label!

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 08:20 (twenty years ago)

uh, sure.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 08:21 (twenty years ago)


especially when he follows it by saying what it was (Ghost)!

-- Matos W.K. (michaelangelomato...) (webmail), January 4th, 2005 8:05 AM. (M Matos) (link)


but he made a point of saying that at first he didn't remember! and it's not clear if the ghost album he mentions is the same one he was struggling to remember. even if it were, he could have simply written, "you know what, i liked the last ghost album on drag city."

obviously this wouldn't be an issue at all--i'm sure i've done the "i can't remember what it was" thing some times--if chuck didn't make such a habit of it (for evidence, see aforementioned pickle bar thread). it's not even a big issue anyway, i was just pointing out what i thought: that it's beginning to resemble self-parody. and (IMO) it's unbecoming a professional critic to repeatedly insist upon not remembering the music he's paid to review.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 08:22 (twenty years ago)

which slides into a larger possible-point about the sheer volume of music chuck apparently takes it upon himself to listen and pass judgement on has a deleterious effect on the quality of his criticism. (this is not unique to chuck obv.)

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 08:25 (twenty years ago)

man this thread really didn't need to be revived.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 08:26 (twenty years ago)

that's very true

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 08:31 (twenty years ago)

who are the most thread-hating posters can be the new question

andrew s (andrew s), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 08:45 (twenty years ago)

the kids just wanna rock. thank you jeebus for sending rock rock rock rock rock and roll critics to tell them in the village voice what does rock and what doesn't. i know the kids love the voice. lots of kids, sure, 'tho none under the age of 39 ever look at it. 's ok, 'tho, cause if they did, they'd know what rocks and what(does)not, etc. so, so what? no kids under the age of 39 look at ilm either. kids are so smart nowadays. i wish i woulda been like that back in the day, wasting all that time that i did, thinking 'bout the vicissitudes of rock.... ruminating on rockism and pop. look where it got me. i guess where i am now.

maybe it really is existential devil's music, after all.

still, that poster who said in 2003 that the royal trux question hadn't been properly addressed was right. besides, i think the howling hex rocks. fortunately, they do more than merely that. 'transmaniacon' rocks but in a shitty way. (shitty rock records tend toward shitty rocking, don't they?) but it's neither here nor there. even so ... it's a bit like complaining in 1971 that harvest records "doesn't rock". drag city somehow reminds me a lot of harvest in its heyday. but who cares? no one reads internet posts on threads no one wants revived.

Victory Chimp, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 08:48 (twenty years ago)

you read it. and, come to think of it, so did i!

charltonlido (gareth), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 09:47 (twenty years ago)

Other labels that don't rock:
Rounder
Deutsche Grammophone
Blue Note


er, can't remember this thread and can't say much abt rounder and blue note. the latter is very up and down from the handful of releases I've got from it but Deustche grammophone were a great great label. Like I always see some of the old LPs in second hand shops and snap them up and its always wonderful in terms of artwork, notes, and the sounds but I do enjoy much classical music post-50s. There is no doubt they are sitting on some unissued stuff (you can get a cpl of kagel LPs he released on the label as mp3s on UBU web - go check).

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 10:21 (twenty years ago)

i'm afraid i think chelsea will win the title

charltonlido (gareth), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 10:47 (twenty years ago)

The new splash page for the DC announces "Superwolf," a collaboration between Matt Sweeney and Bonnie Prince Billy. I have my doubts, to be honest, but I'll give it a listen.

What I've heard hasn't been great, but I gave up on Oldham after Arise Therefor and never liked Chavez. I do recall someone on this board saying that a band name involving Wolf is to 2004 what Super was to bands in 1992, so I like the name.

Vic Funk, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 14:20 (twenty years ago)

i'm afraid i think chelsea will win the title
-- charltonlido (...), January 4th, 2005.

do remember that they haven't had a bad run yet every team has one.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)

I should like to point out that, while this charming thread went sleepy-shit-pie, the Village Voice published (yet another) favroable mention of The Suntanama, carefully entwined within my roundup of conceptualist combos, yclept "You Can't Catch Me." And also published (yet another) favorable mention of Ghost's HYPNOTIC UNDERWORLD, within Mr. Scott Seward's review, the title of which I forget, even though I am not an editor. And even though I am a poster on ILM, that greeny and happy land where no one ever forgets anything, especially charming threads like this.

don, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 15:06 (twenty years ago)

Although I related to Suntanama as descendants of Holy Modal Rounders (who have some records on Rounder, come to think of it), so more rock 'n' roll as a (crucial) component, the restless, messy one, rather than rock as genre. And rock is one crucial component in Ghos't HYPNOTIC UNDERWORLD. Damn, that's a good album. Although I still have to fast-forward past Track One. But the rest of it's just..so well-timed, for one thing. As I think a lot of artists on Bleu Note and D.Grammophone would agree, seriously. Peace Yall.

don, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 15:36 (twenty years ago)

x-post

How did this thread survive so long without a single mention of rockism?

And how come nobody has mentioned that a label called "Drag City" might not be the best place to find music that "rocks"?

Hmmm...

cdwill, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

xpost:
Don, let me take this opportunity to clear up a mini-misunderstanding on the Memphis thread that I tried to address on the 17th day of downtime in a post you may not have read. Of course I like "Suspicious Minds" - I was only joking when I called it a "throwaway."

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 15:42 (twenty years ago)

especially when he follows it by saying what it was (Ghost)!

-- Matos W.K. (michaelangelomato...), January 4th, 2005.

(Ghost) is the new (Smog).

Beta (abeta), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 15:43 (twenty years ago)

"it's unbecoming a professional critic"

that's enough, you can all stop now.

danh (danh), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

Boring nincompoops both here and on the Noise board whining about the fact that I don't remember the record label and track listing and production credits and artwork fonts of every record I've ever enjoyed off the top of my head (as if *they* do, even though they don't hear a fraction of the records I do) turned into self parody ages ago. That's all I've got to say. (Except that I do so like Temporary Residence. I've even written glowing reviews of many of their CDs. So there. They hate rock *way better than Drag City does.)

chuck, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 17:00 (twenty years ago)

I mean hell, if a record, as enjoyable as it might be, doesn't leave enough of an impression for the listener to remember every minute detail about it months after the listener has filed it on his or her shelf whilst he or she absorbs hundreds of subsequent releases, I'd blame the record, not the listener. But hey, that's just me. If whatever record I liked at the time on Drag City was more memorable (assuming such a record even exists -- what kind of anal compulsive twit gives a fuck about always memorizing record labels, anyway? The only reason I even look at them, usually, is because we print them in the paper), I'd have remembered way more about the thing, trust me.

chuck, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 17:13 (twenty years ago)

Chuck, I think it was the Ghost album that you liked. It was on one of your lists earlier in the year.

Glad to be of help here.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 17:22 (twenty years ago)

i think maybe they meant something along the lines of, that period of time between not remembering what something is, and writing the article

charltonlido (gareth), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 17:23 (twenty years ago)

xpost no prob ken: I was just using yr throwaway as pretext for my own, and speaking of throwaways, that was The Great Lost Thread wasn't it? Does the Cyberverse have its own b-sides,cached hither and yon, down in the dustbin bits of WuhWuhWebbing--?

don, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 17:34 (twenty years ago)

"How did this thread survive so long without a single mention of rockism?"

Very deliberately on everyone's part, I'd guess.

"what kind of anal compulsive twit gives a fuck about always memorizing record labels, anyway? The only reason I even look at them, usually, is because we print them in the paper)"

Do you really mean that, Chuck? I sorta think certain labels have a "sound" or a "personality" (Thrill Jockey? Warp? Stax, maybe? Motown?)

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 18:39 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, well, of course I like SOME labels, Hurting; the emphasis was on the "memorizing" and (especially) the "always." If Drag City had anywhere near as good a track record lately (or ever) as, say, GSL or The End or In the Red or (again) Temporary Residence (or Celluloid or Ze or Sugarhill or Enjoy or Stiff or Rough Trade once upon a time), I'm sure I'd be better at remembering which handful of CDs on my shelf share their imprint. But if Drag City *does* have a personality or sound, it's not one that's ever left much of an impression on me. If I liked some non-Ghost Drag City CD this year, which I may or may not have, my point isn't to knock the CD itself as to say that its label affiliation is hardly the thing that made me interested in it.

chuck, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

Fair enough.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 18:57 (twenty years ago)

"which slides into a larger possible-point about the sheer volume of music chuck apparently takes it upon himself to listen and pass judgement on has a deleterious effect on the quality of his criticism."

What are you saying here, ultimately? That a critic who follows his muse, listens to volumes of stuff because that's what he/she likes to do, and writes from this particular hand-as-dealt-by-the-muses should turn away from these muses, put his/her nose to the goddamn grindstone, and study the *important* albums instead?

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

assuming such a record even exists -- what kind of anal compulsive twit gives a fuck about always memorizing record labels, anyway?

Those that think/realize that a label sometimes tries to cultivate a certain *sound*. The fan knows that the label is *reliable*, knowing that if he buys a DC record won't mean it'll be a dance record, he'll probably like the record,...

It's a bit like buying the VV because you know that what's published in it, will probably be interesting. Instead of pageing through every mag in the shop, you just go for the VV.

stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 19:04 (twenty years ago)

I feel bad for resurrecting this thread at all. My aim was really not an exhaustive evaluation of Chuck Eddy's abilities.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 19:04 (twenty years ago)

The problem with this thread is: if somebody wants to take issue with chuck or scott, or even don (although I don't know why they would) or any of the other guys, fine. But the title is so mean-spirited that it makes the whole thing a little more unpleasant than it has to be.

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 19:05 (twenty years ago)

Of course, now that I said that, my interior fairness in broadcasting thing is going to end up making me pick a chuck-fight.

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 19:06 (twenty years ago)

I think I'm with Chuck. My days of knowing which labels carry my favorite artists are pretty much over, mostly due my relatively newfound penchant for *ahem* stealing.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 19:06 (twenty years ago)

o come on, stence was just repping. no harm no foul. it's a shame amateurist is at his worst on these threads but we all got our weakspots.

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)

I'm with Chuck. I consider band names and album titles to be minute details yet I still wish to discuss things even though I can remember little about them. Also, kisses.

Carl Winslow is WHAT!?!? (deangulberry), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)

Maybe DC doesn't have much of a "sound" now, but at its peak I thought that the Jim O'Rourke, Papa M, Oldham, Gastr Del Sol, David Grubbs, Smog, etc. really did constitute one, largely because of all the musical incest going on.

Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 19:10 (twenty years ago)

Edith Frost pwns

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 19:12 (twenty years ago)

xpost:
Ha! That reminds me of this classic thread that a friend of mine sent me from Argentina in my pre-ILX days.

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

Yay, Edith :) (She's dating a friend of mine.)

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

Jesus, I posted on that "classic" thread. That makes me think I've been here too long, and I haven't been here long at all.

David Allen (David Allen), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 19:22 (twenty years ago)

You know, I haven't been around long enough to say what's classic or what's not. Probably I should have spelt "classic" with a "k" or two to cover my bases.

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 19:31 (twenty years ago)

And how come nobody has mentioned that a label called "Drag City" might not be the best place to find music that "rocks"?

Are you saying Jan & Dean didn't rock (in their own way)?

I'm with Chuck. I consider band names and album titles to be minute details yet I still wish to discuss things even though I can remember little about them.

That's the best post evah.

Vic Funk, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 19:48 (twenty years ago)

If I had the kind of money I used to have, and if that little man in my head wakes up again, I might go back to trying to collect everything on certain labels. But the highs, even the medium highs of :Sun, Blue Note, Motown, SST, Drag City, to name just a few mae the lows, even the medium lows of such labels seem so horrrribly depressing, much more so(perhaps?) than if they were just basically random bargain-bin grazing. On the other hand, can't say I've ever heard anything on ESP-DISK that wasn't worth hearing, at least once. But if they have a "sound," other than the sound of low-to-no budget, it's on that encompasses Billie Holiday, Charlie Parker, Charlie Manson, the Holy Modal Rounders, and much less conservative folk.

don, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 20:29 (twenty years ago)

"which slides into a larger possible-point about the sheer volume of music chuck apparently takes it upon himself to listen and pass judgement on has a deleterious effect on the quality of his criticism."

What are you saying here, ultimately? That a critic who follows his muse, listens to volumes of stuff because that's what he/she likes to do, and writes from this particular hand-as-dealt-by-the-muses should turn away from these muses, put his/her nose to the goddamn grindstone, and study the *important* albums instead?

-- Tim Ellison (timejeanne...) (webmail), January 4th, 2005 7:00 PM. (Tim Ellison) (link)


i'm saying that perhaps chuck sets out to listen to too much music and write about it! (or "write" about it, if listing albums under "eddytor's dozen" with an often-inscrutable or irrelevant eight-word note can be considered writing.) as a result his standards of criticism ("this rocked!" "i liked it immediately!" "it was great when i listened to it once three months ago, now i can't remember what it is!") are more than a bit facile. he rarely gives any evidence of having *burrowed* into a piece of music, getting to know it really well. it's the old pauline kael phenomenon of "i trust my immediate judgment and never/rarely go back." but records were made for relistening, i believe. well, to qualify a little, there are definitely critics who can listen and review records at a high pace/volume and still manage to say something interesting about them, to get inside them, to get a real feel for where they fit in and how they work. unfortunately chuck shows little evidence of this IMO. i don't intend to be prescriptive here--i.e. i wouldn't know what chuck *should* do--, just diagnostive. (is that a word?)

anyway yeah i remember the labels and all the attendant info about any album i care about. why not? i've spent a lot of time with the music i care out. because i care about music.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:02 (twenty years ago)

!

youn, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:03 (twenty years ago)

and to reiterate what i've written a million times--and in an oblique response to blount who says i'm "at my worst" on threads about mr. eddy--i do find it unusually aggravating that someone whose writing and rhetorical skills i value so little (and who is so evidently unprofessional) is the *editor* of the music section of the flagship arts weekly in america. it seems to say something to me about the sorry state of rock criticism. that doesn't mean the VV doesn't published some really good stuff in its music section (though i wish the pieces were longer). just that it seems to me that this good stuff is being published in spite of chuck eddy's limitations. of course i have no idea what the internal dynamic is at the voice. chuck might be an amazing editor; for me to believe that i'd have to presume he adopts an entirely different approach to interacting with human beings than he takes on ilx. quite possible.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:05 (twenty years ago)

Amateur(ist), did you ever read the Voice before Chuck was in charge?

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

was it much worse? what was it like? i've read the voice off and on for maybe 12 years, but i don't know when chuck took over.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

i also probably wasn't too sensitive to the music section until 7 or 8 years ago

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:11 (twenty years ago)

>he rarely gives any evidence of having *burrowed* into a piece of music, getting to know it really well<

read my books. and a few thousand reviews from the past 20 years on top of those. (and don't whine that i "always" tell you that, and then pretend that you know jackshit about my writing.) bye, shmuck.

chuck, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:11 (twenty years ago)

somehow i doubt you'll leave it at that.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:12 (twenty years ago)

*sound of glass shattering*

m1cc1o, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:14 (twenty years ago)

OK, Chuck is dead until the sequel (or IS he?) Now can we please let this thread drop off the New Answers page? If you guys wanna fight, continue on the Why I Love Country Music thread.

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:15 (twenty years ago)

http://www.ericdeschamps.com/ill/imgs/bar_fight.jpg

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

I wonder if this what Martians would be like, if they ever came to visit Earth.

Leon the Fratboy (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

this is no longer the best thread ever! It's deja vu all over again. Hi, Nicole! Are you excited to see the amazing race tonight? I know i am!

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

I hope for Jonathan death.

Leon the Fratboy (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:32 (twenty years ago)

http://www.diningwithfriends.org/images/dancing-gif.gif

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:38 (twenty years ago)

x^4post
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/9261/marvin/marvin5.gif

Take me to your reader, Earthling.

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 21:39 (twenty years ago)

I liked ILM much better before it became a haven for wanna-be rockwrite whores (or upwardly mobile rockwrite whores) sucking up with slavish adoration to the likes of Chuck Eddy, making no attempt whatsoever to hide the fact that they'd blow him for a chance of a byline and a $75 check from the Voice.

I certainly don't see anyone shouting down Amateur(ist) with such *concerned* gusto on any other thread. That is, threads in which the subject isn't Chuck Eddy, the Man Who Could Take Me-and-My-Little-Rockwrite-Hobby to Real Paying Places!

Not saying that the shamelessly sycophantic displays seen at ILM can be attributed to Eddy's actions or desires, although he does seem to revel in the adoration -- and is kneejerk curt whenever any slight critique directed his way rears its head.

Lefty, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:18 (twenty years ago)

I certainly don't see anyone shouting down Amateur(ist) with such *concerned* gusto on any other thread.

Then you haven't been around ilx very long.

Leon the Fatboy (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:22 (twenty years ago)

I've been looking at it on and off for about 4 years. Is that enough for you?

Lefty, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:26 (twenty years ago)

xpost:
You might be right, but I'm not sure that all of it is so sycophantic. Chuck has an idiosyncratic style (such styles have always been encouraged at the Voice, based on the anecdotal evidence) which is his own fingerprint and amateurist seems to wish he were a different kind of critic. I think some of the more reasonable people are just trying to convince him of the futility of this wish. On the other hand, a little arse-leckery never hurt anybody, did it?

Oh man, who do I have to fux0r to get off this thread?

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:29 (twenty years ago)

I've been looking at it on and off for about 4 years. Is that enough for you?

You may have been looking at it, but it seems you have not been reading it.

Leon the Fatboy (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:31 (twenty years ago)

haha amateurist is this the first time you've been shouted down with concerned gusto?

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:37 (twenty years ago)

the word "gusto" makes me think of huge plates of lasagna

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:41 (twenty years ago)

also lefty feel free to name names on just who's sucking chuck's cock here (i definitely have called people out on this tip in the past so feel free to follow thru bitch). also maybe explain to me how someone who's posted maybe ten times on ilm, once to state dancing should be illegal and and at least three other times to dismiss someone (usually a woman) as a cunt or a whore or a twat, how someone who's clearly as on the ball as yourself to see thru such charades as dancing and women and oh yeah chuck eddy (who in that company is last and least sorry chuck) hasn't managed to pick up on this? and who is someone whose every third post involves determining just who is a whore/twat/cunt to criticise someone for kneejerk curtness?

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:42 (twenty years ago)

'gusto' should be like a sam's club version of some chicago style pizza sauce.

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:43 (twenty years ago)

>he rarely gives any evidence of having *burrowed* into a piece of >music, getting to know it really well

read my books. and a few thousand reviews from the past 20 years on top of those.

i've only ever read 'accidental evolution' but amateur(ist)'s compaint is the same i had with that book. it just seemed like an endless string of witty lists and obscure references and oddball comparisons, many of which were amusing and interesting in their counterintuitiveness, but nothing was really *developed*, and after a while i felt like i was being pummeled with fragments. as a result, i didn't really learn anything or think about anything in a new way, which i guess is what i want out of criticism, regardless of what approach it takes.

steve merrill, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:43 (twenty years ago)

anyhow, yeah these things always turn petty which wouldn't be a problem if they could turn really petty, most of these disses and takedowns of bigman eddy don't really possess teeth (even when ol' lefty slings some of that hottwatpowder cross the plate), nothing ever makes me think 'holy shit i can't believe he/you said that', the weakest 'yo mama' joke would tear this place asunder.

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:47 (twenty years ago)

What you're deeming "idiosyncratic" is looking more and more like "woozily inconsistent" to me. Chuck Eddy is now stating "But if Drag City *does* have a personality or sound, it's not one that's ever left much of an impression on me." If that is indeed the case, how the fuck does one draw the conclusion that DC are "rock hating" (or "rock embracing", for that matter) if the "personality or sound" of the label in question *leaves no discernible impression*?

So what is one to conclude from this? That Chuck Eddy's only critical criterion is that, upon initial listening, if he perceives a record to "rock" he sits up and takes notice, and if said record "doesn't rock" it is "rock hating"? Furthermore, if it leaves no real lasting impression, it can also be labeled "rock hating"? Which is it, then? I don't get it.

Lefty, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:48 (twenty years ago)

ihttp://www.snafu-comics.com/comics/020911.jpg

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:50 (twenty years ago)

so lefty are you gonna actually name names?

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:52 (twenty years ago)

xxpost:
I don't know. If I try too hard to follow the intricacies of rock-critic logic I get a headache- the same way I do if I try too hard to understand rock lyrics.

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:53 (twenty years ago)

also i was wondering if you could expound on the critical criterion you used to decide that dancing should be illegal. ol lefty.

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:54 (twenty years ago)

http://www.purecountrymusic.com/photos/productFullD-37958.jpg

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:58 (twenty years ago)

BEST SPRING BREAK EVER!!!!!!!!!!

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 22:59 (twenty years ago)

[ADMIN: image link removed as it was putting up a password box]

Request for Moderation: Please change title of thread to "Is Everybody Who Edits the Village Voice Really This Stupid Fresh?"

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:00 (twenty years ago)

a $75 check from the Voice.

wtf they didn't lower rates did they? Usually its like $100. I haven't pitched in months (damn free net taking away my careerist drive).

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:00 (twenty years ago)

ts: lefty frizzell vs. lefty driesell

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:02 (twenty years ago)

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/plaques/images/Koufax_Sandy.jpg

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:02 (twenty years ago)

BEST SPRING BREAK EVER!!!!!!!!!!
C'mon now, darlin' and sit yourself down next to me here in the Merle-pool.

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:03 (twenty years ago)

Southpaw Roll Call! (where my lefties at?)

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:04 (twenty years ago)

i guarantee if either frizzell or driesell went into a bar and said 'i've been coming to this here bar for well nigh on and off for four years and i do declare i am getting right sick of these rockwrite whores and twats' and someone said 'who you talking bout lefty?' he would have the common courtesy to respond 'I'M TALKING ABOUT YOU! AND YOU! AND YOU!'. must be them declining standards amateurist was on about.

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:05 (twenty years ago)

imagine if the bar had dancing

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:07 (twenty years ago)

I have an image of a rockist Lucy Van Pelt with hands folded, sunglasses on, nose pierced and hair pinkpunked out; standing behind a booth with a sign that reads "RIMJOBS: $75".

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:08 (twenty years ago)

hott

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:09 (twenty years ago)

forkclove were you just on suicidegirls?

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:10 (twenty years ago)

You saw my pictorial, blount?

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:13 (twenty years ago)

you're number three in my heart after them pseudoincestuous twins

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:15 (twenty years ago)

yeah real tasteful use of a crucifix, FCT

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:16 (twenty years ago)

I use the name Sandy Koufax when I'm ordering a taxi. I didn't actually know who he was until this thread. So at least it's achieved something.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:22 (twenty years ago)

No, Senator McCarthy, I'm not gonna "name names". Comprende, you inept shit-stirring weasel?

Best you return to your crack pipe, blount. It's not going to lower the level on your paranoia meter any, but it may just mercifully shut you up for a spell or two.

I do thank you, however, for making me aware of a glaring critical omission in my tossed-off "dancing should be illegal" post. When I wrote that, I never once thought to cater to those who suffer from incomprehension. Meaning I never imagined that anyone would take it seriously.

As for my alleged many posts dismissing women as "cunts/twats", etc., that's certainly news to me -- and one hell of a slander. Putting the name "Lefty" into the search engine right now turned up 33 posts (not ten, as you claim). One of the "Lefty" posts is another Lefty, at that - so 32, then). One dig at Ashlee Simpson, yes, but characteristic of my posts? I think not.

And do stop calling me (and others) "bitch".

Lefty, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:25 (twenty years ago)

such kneejerk curtness! such dodging and weaving!

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:26 (twenty years ago)

you are inept at stirring shit!

artdamages (artdamages), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:29 (twenty years ago)

so senator mccarthy when you insinuate this place is filled with KNOWN ROCKWRITE WHORES AND TWATS is it too unfair to ask 'um what exactly are you talking about?' (or will this prompt kneejerk curtness sincere concern about ilxors drug addictions?) or to dare call bullshit on that? also what exactly is a paranoia meter? and how does clarity lower the level on it? also: put up or shut up. bitch.

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:30 (twenty years ago)

how many spells is a good crack pipe good for? the world may never know.

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:31 (twenty years ago)

paranoia meter
TS http://www.yenra.com/delmore-schwartz/delmore-schwartz.jpg vs http://fusionanomaly.net/antoninartaudbymanray.jpg

(will it get through?)

Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:34 (twenty years ago)

damn blount, calm down.

(why do you feel the need to so doggedly defend chuck anyway? he doesn't really need the help.)

Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:41 (twenty years ago)

"Doggedly Defend Chuck" and "Lucy Rimjobs" should definitely be new nicks by the end of the day.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:47 (twenty years ago)

who's defending chuck? (i'm sure old hands like lefty can remind you of my amy phillips bromide) chuck's totally wrong about the pixies in stairway to heaven btw, maybe in a similar way he's wrong (if he is) about drag city, which i could almost forgive cuz usually they're (the pixies) insanely overrated but it does point to an occasional kneejerk but maybe not curt and definitely never kurt flaw of chuck's which is this sort of inherent skepticism toward standard corny indie fuxx and rockcrit hosannas, which is maaaybe a healthy impulse in some, but gets in the way of eddy's strength which is the ability and willingness to actually listen, he's one of sadly too few rockwriters who regulary display evidence of definitely having listened to the piece of music he's writing about (as opposed to the trapping around it like the ascribed understood genre or the press bio or 'history' or gasp even the label!) which is why it's disappointing to see him dismiss something, usually 'college rock' or 'indie rock', for reasons that are maybe extraneous to the record. this tendency hardly defines him though. as for him as an editor: who knows? i'd say the section's gotten better, he's definitely very willing for better or worse (probably better) to give people shots, for the flagship arts coverage whatever amateurist called it alot of the music bylines have been from people who haven't been in the game for (too) long, and yeah mcnuggetsizing and 'altweakly as lifestyle calendar and nothing else' trends are depressing but it's not like there aren't plenty of other places to go (albeit not for longer, smarter pieces really)(christ now most blog entries are longer than published rockcrit) but if you want to blame someone for that yr looking at the wrong voiceguy (xgau spawned forth entertainment weekly and blender if any ONE guy did)(note: no ONE guy did)(and i LIKE xgau and ew and blender)(though yeah it's a shame there's only the bitesize option but i guess this is kinda a case of chickens coming home to roost).

blount, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 23:59 (twenty years ago)

that's some really lame aping of chuck's posting style you got goin on there.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 00:04 (twenty years ago)

actually i'm aping mark s. (per usual)(LONG before chuck started posting here)(probably not before ol lefty though)(he's as old as the hills).

blount, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 00:05 (twenty years ago)

funny, I couldn't stand mister sinkah either.

I will give you credit for actually giving a relatively level-headed appraisal of chuck's style. tho you do give him a pass on his scattershot/random references style, which is something I personally find most irritating/unhelpful. but that's just me, and my opinions of chuck are well-known, etc.

let's talk about something else now....

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 00:09 (twenty years ago)

Ryne Sandberg made the Hall of Fame. Fuck those haters who think he doesn't deserve it, he pwned the position in the '80s.

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 00:11 (twenty years ago)

yeah i can't believe it took this long, looks like sutter stands a good shot next year.

blount, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 00:13 (twenty years ago)

http://fusionanomaly.net/antoninartaudbymanray.jpg

What's kd lang got to do with anything?

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 00:14 (twenty years ago)

maybe there was some confusion

http://www.angelfire.com/ky2/bbautos/zsundberg.jpg

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 00:15 (twenty years ago)

What's kd lang got to do with anything?

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 00:17 (twenty years ago)

tags fux0red: HTML checker let me down.

What's kd lang got to do with anything?
Dom, now you're gonna confuse people who will think it's really her!

my opinions of chuck are well-known, etc.
I think I read them on a Royal Trux Thread, 20 some-odd days ago

let's talk about something else now....
We could try, but it's this thread so

http://www.europeanbook.com/media/images/2070368076.jpg

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 00:18 (twenty years ago)

hell is other people on the internets

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 00:21 (twenty years ago)

L'Eddytor et Le Neant

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 00:23 (twenty years ago)

Comment je me suis disputé... (ma vie virtuelle)

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 00:26 (twenty years ago)

If Lou Whitaker played for the Cubs and Ryno played for the Tigers, would Ryno be selected?

polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 00:32 (twenty years ago)

Spanglish - James L. Brooks!

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 00:37 (twenty years ago)

Chuck's a good editor, in my experience. And yeah, he does give new people a shot.ILXer Eddie Hurt's in the issue that just came online tonight.(They've relaunched the site, and the Search function's fucked, for the next week or so, at least re reviews archived past the last few months). The brevity of reviews, according to several things I've read elsewhere, comes from *publishers'* desire to reach out and touch mo' younger readers. Boomers are loyal, but Boomers are done. As far as buying much more than they do now, they ain't gonna (unless iPods come packaged with, say, Metamucil; h'mmm...)

don, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 01:23 (twenty years ago)

Do boomers read Pitchfork?

miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 01:53 (twenty years ago)

And yeah, he does give new people a shot
Like that young kid J0e L3vy?? Sorry, couldn't resist.

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 01:58 (twenty years ago)

OH NO WHAT IF JOE LEVY FINDS OUT WHAT YOU THINK?!?!?!?!

miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:00 (twenty years ago)

HEADS WILL ROLL!!!

miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:01 (twenty years ago)

Now I can't stop singing "What's kd lang got ta do with it, got ta do with it... what's kd lang... but a second hand emohoshun..."

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:01 (twenty years ago)

I assume that if you appear on VH1 there's at least 25 messageboards where somebody calls you a douchebag (esp. if you say the stuff Levy does) so no biggie here.

i hate reading positive reviews of Pavement. And I say this as a fan.

miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:03 (twenty years ago)

xpost:

Why does my lameass g00g13pr00f!ng always bother you, manthony m1cc1o?

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:09 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, I didn't mean to get snitty. Blame it on the curse of this thread.

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:10 (twenty years ago)

"Do Boomers read Pitchfork?" Well actually! I so wish I'd had a tape handy this afternoon, when a Boomerific lady, whose husband owns a CD store in Lawrence KS, did her thing on "All Things Considered." Seems that Hubby reads audiophilia and Serious Criticism, "of John Cale and Stockhausen," but she's "from the Old School; give me guys like Lester Bangs and Robert Christgau! That's why I read the Village Voice and Mojo and Pitchfork." She went on for a while, but I'd hate to misquote her.

don, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:14 (twenty years ago)

OK, this thread is beginning to see the light again.

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:15 (twenty years ago)

i know this will sound facile and weird, but i wish rock criticism in general was more chill, like classical music criticism often is.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:29 (twenty years ago)

also more people should make that "i'm chill" arm gesture, the little wave thing.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:31 (twenty years ago)

is there a formalist doctrine you'd like to prescribe for it? (xpost)

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:31 (twenty years ago)

http://www.planetnintendo.com/goldensun/interactive/fanart/riachu/chill.jpg

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:33 (twenty years ago)

is there a formalist doctrine you'd like to prescribe for it? (xpost)

-- Matos W.K. (michaelangelomato...) (webmail), January 5th, 2005 2:31 AM. (M Matos) (link)


a "formalist doctrine"? matos, you're not as stupid as this.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:34 (twenty years ago)

of course not, I don't edit the Village Voice

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:35 (twenty years ago)

Good lord, based on the last hundred posts or so, now I'm actually GLAD I was busy most of the afternoon training new student workers and locked in a fucking 'vision statement' conference.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:36 (twenty years ago)

"vision statment"?! at a library?!

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:37 (twenty years ago)

I think rock criticism is too unstable to be chill.

youn, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:37 (twenty years ago)

http://www.fbckenner.org/cartoon/slideshows/winter2002/images/criticism.gif

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:38 (twenty years ago)

http://hsgm.free.fr/liens/hitler.jpg

grumble grumble, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:39 (twenty years ago)

"vision statment"?! at a library?!

You have no goddamn idea, Mr. M. I sped up things by forcing through a written redraft at top speed so we could sit back and let everyone else argue over their rewrites. The sick thing is I think I've actually now written most of the thing by default!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:39 (twenty years ago)

(Thankfully, though, I've been inspired to write more record reviews to get it out of my system.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:41 (twenty years ago)

xpost to Ned is back post:
C'mon, Ned, your very presence would have mitigated this disastrophe, if not prevented it altogether.

xxpost to Matos's Voice comment:
but they LINK to your stuff, don't they?

xpost to Matos's library comment:
Ned, did you talk about reducing blurriness on the microfiche?

chill
like on,say, "All Things Considered"?

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:41 (twenty years ago)

xxpost to Matos's Voice comment:
but they LINK to your stuff, don't they?

yeah. and . . . ?

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:42 (twenty years ago)

i know this will sound facile and weird, but i wish rock criticism in general was more chill, like classical music criticism often is.

I totally disagree. I think rock criticism should follow the model of organized crime.. you know, drive-by's, coke, and shit.

Oh wait...

donut christ (donut), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:42 (twenty years ago)

Ned, did you all ingest peyote and sit around in a sweat lodge? That's how we do our vision statements at the library where I work.

RS LaRue (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:43 (twenty years ago)

where, dare I ask, is your library located, RS?

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:44 (twenty years ago)

C'mon, Ned, your very presence would have mitigated this disastrophe, if not prevented it altogether.

Uh, no it wouldn't. For one thing, Lefty would accuse me of being one of the ones orally pleasuring Mr. Eddy. (Who I have indeed pitched a couple of things to, though he wisely turned them down as they were usually fairly half-formed ideas at best.)

Ned, did you talk about reducing blurriness on the microfiche?

Part of my relentless modernization drive is demonstrating to professors that, yes, it is in fact much easier to link directly to an article on line than it is to print out a copy and give it to me to scan as a PDF. But I'll spare you further thoughts.

Ned, did you all ingest peyote and sit around in a sweat lodge? That's how we do our vision statements at the library where I work.

We got apple juice and brownie bites.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:44 (twenty years ago)

RS's library is in Philadelphia, so I assume you get free cheesesteaks with every five books you check out.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:45 (twenty years ago)

where, dare I ask, is your library located, RS?

Oh wait, I think maybe I got mixed up between how the actual vision statement was arrived at (and I certainly was not invited to such an exalted occasion) and some jokes I made about it at the time.

RS LaRue (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:46 (twenty years ago)

"You librarian types are all about looking at the books when you should be focused on looking inside them..."

"And how do you suggest that we catagorize them, then?"

"As books, man. As books."

"Heavens! ;)"

Carl Winslow and Jeanne-Claude (deangulberry), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:46 (twenty years ago)

Frightening thought, sir. I don't want bongwater over all the Walter Benjamin texts.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:48 (twenty years ago)

Let us now talk about the aura of bongwater in the age of mechanical reproduction.

Carl Winslow and Jeanne-Claude (deangulberry), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:48 (twenty years ago)

((this is a massive xpost; i was responding to matos's post before ned came in with a comment about what he did at the library today.))

matos: i didn't come up with the thread title. i've never called chuck "stupid." i don't think he's stupid. i think he's too defensive and too hotheaded, and this gets in the way of (or supersedes) his making convincing arguments on behalf of his own writing and the music he loves. i think you do this often too--react defensively rather than enter into real argument.

blount asked me, in so many words, if i feel that i get more flack when i "take on" chuck eddy on threads like these, and i kept mum, not wanting at that point to inflame this thread further. but i now feel it's ok to point out that matos is the first person that sprung to my mind as frequently "defending" chuck eddy by simply insulting me...and without providing any kind of substantive defense of chuck's writing. i do seem to get a lot less "benefit of the doubt" when i criticize chuck's writing, and i never seem to have to confront (for better and for worse) so much criticism as when it's about chuck eddy. maybe that simply testifies to the passion his criticism incites in others here. (note that i've *never* made the charge that people are defending chuck because he could give them work.) but it irks me that the "argument" that i get from chuck and some of his fans amounts to little more than sniping. (à la the "formalist doctrine" comment--matos i think you understand what i meant by arguing for a "formalist criticism" or a formalist tendency in music criticism, and i think you know i didn't make the argument simply as a way to castigate particular practicing critics--in fact i avoided doing so on that thread, and tried to make it a "positive" endeavor of coming up with "problems" that could be solved through a formalist-inflected criticism.)

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:49 (twenty years ago)

I assume you get free cheesesteaks with every five books you check out.

If you reconstitute the grease that will have accumulated on five library books, you can in fact assemble a cheese steak. It's technical possible, though it hasn't actually been tried.

RS LaRue (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:49 (twenty years ago)

peyote
You guys got rid of the sun-dance part, did you? Wimps!

I sped up things by forcing through a written redraft at top speed so we could sit back and let everyone else argue over their rewrites.
Ned, this is no way to get things down. The proper way to do it is tolet everybody else drag you down with their two cents of this and that and then, when nothing is done, join in on the finger-pointing.

yeah. and . . . ?
Nothing. Just trying to pre-push that button before Big Lefty rides into town.

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:49 (twenty years ago)

amst, referring back to the thread title in a jocular way /= accusing you of writing it.

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:50 (twenty years ago)

RS, I'm telling ya, that's a money-making franchise right there, then!

Let us now talk about the aura of bongwater in the age of mechanical reproduction.

I'm getting bad visions of Ann Magnuson singing a song called "Jacques Derrida Wants Ideas."

The proper way to do it is tolet everybody else drag you down with their two cents of this and that and then, when nothing is done, join in on the finger-pointing.

I think of it as my contribution to workplace morale (so they'll leave me alone about everything else).

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:51 (twenty years ago)

ok, you're right, i just wanted to make sure people didn't think i was hurling those kind of insults or supportive of them.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:51 (twenty years ago)

When you photocopy bongwater, the smell goes away.

look: drag city does not hate rock; lots of records on drag city rock--royal trux, viva last blues, some ghost, squirrel bait, red krayola, weird war, etc. these are records made in a style of music conventionally called "rock." if chuck wants to make up his own definition of the word, that's fine. good for him.

working in a library sounds fun.

Ian John50n (orion), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:52 (twenty years ago)

and FWIW, while i don't have much of an opinion on his opinions, chuck's posts can be incredibly hard to read (hard on the eyes, fragmented & tangential, single paragraph.)

Ian John50n (orion), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:53 (twenty years ago)

working in a library sounds fun.

Hey, didn't I tell you about the time I was playing To Live and Shave in LA's Interview with the Mitchell Brothers at my workspace? I have no idea what my coworkers thought. Though one time one woman accused me of listening only to static (Acid Mothers Temple was playing at the time).

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:54 (twenty years ago)

xp #1: I got a formalist doctrine in the works. Well, more of a bitch session about things critics do that I don't like (-isms; reviewing the audience as substitute for reviewing the music; generational division rhetoric) but it's probably too shrill.

xp #2: I hate to say it, but on a board like this where a good 85% of critical, analytical why-certain-music-doesn't-work discourse is comprised of twenty-word remarks that (albeit good-naturedly snarky) usually boil down to "such and such a band is rubbish and listened to by losers", I can understand why someone might get a bit defensive and pissed-off. Which is pretty much my entire M.O. some days, usually to embarrassing effect. Such is the nature of the geek.

What's this place, Biblevania? (natepatrin), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:55 (twenty years ago)

I always pictured working in a library as working in some sort of perfect, endless silence. alas. xpost

Ian John50n (orion), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:55 (twenty years ago)

working in a library sounds fun.


i love libraries! especially academic libraries.

but i don't think i'd want any job where i had most of the day to putter around on the interweb. i've had jobs like that, and they slowly suck out your soul. although i'm sure most librarians are quite busy. (note: i'm not being sarcastic. i've known some busy librarians in my time.)

xpost

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:55 (twenty years ago)

ian: library =/ space vacuum

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:56 (twenty years ago)

one time this fella I know was playing To Live and Die In L.A. at a party on a big-screen and this girl got weirded out by seeing William Peterson's cack on film

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:56 (twenty years ago)

why was william peterson placing his penis on film? is that some kind of l.a. parlor game i haven't learned about?

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:57 (twenty years ago)

"such and such a band is rubbish and listened to by losers"

I try limiting it to the first part of that sentence, but I suspect I convey too much of the second at points.

I always pictured working in a library as working in some sort of perfect, endless silence

Oh, it can be. But not in the office area, which helps prevent insanity.

but i don't think i'd want any job where i had most of the day to putter around on the interweb. i've had jobs like that, and they slowly suck out your soul

If I didn't have the Net, the soul would have been long sucked out and destroyed years back. (As it currently stands, it's resting.)

i've known some busy librarians in my time.

We all do! Namely the good Leon the Fratboy for a start.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:58 (twenty years ago)

no he was about to slip it to darlanne fluegel of "hunter" fame

"fame"

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:59 (twenty years ago)

i now feel it's ok to point out that matos is the first person that sprung to my mind as frequently "defending" chuck eddy by simply insulting me...and without providing any kind of substantive defense of chuck's writing.

or maybe I'm just pointing out when you're being shrill?

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 02:59 (twenty years ago)

"fame"

What she got was no tomorrow.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:00 (twenty years ago)

now now, you're BOTH being shrill.

Ian John50n (orion), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:00 (twenty years ago)

Ned, do you look on the protagonist of "Goodbye, Columbus" as a role model?

endless silence
Silence perhaps yes, but with the olfactory sense always charmingly on alert.

putter around on the interweb
I am shocked, simply shocked, to find that interweb puttering is going on.

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:01 (twenty years ago)

Ned, do you look on the protagonist of "Goodbye, Columbus" as a role model?

Haven't read it. Portnoy's is the only Roth I've read and I can't say I'm much moved to read any more.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:03 (twenty years ago)

I WAS SHRILL FIRST

What's this place, Biblevania? (natepatrin), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:03 (twenty years ago)

thanks for straightening everything out Ian. (xpost)

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:04 (twenty years ago)

Why does my lameass g00g13pr00f!ng always bother you, manthony m1cc1o?

sorry I keep forgetting its you who does it and its not due to fear. The idea of someone fearing Joe Levy's wrath is HI-larious and I gotta point it out.

miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:08 (twenty years ago)

man usc is just kicking the sooners ass

blount, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:13 (twenty years ago)

ain't no split this year, is there? FUCK the polls

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:18 (twenty years ago)

no split this year - auburn's had two undefeated seasons in the past twelve years and gotten zero titles out of it. that is so beautiful.

blount, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:20 (twenty years ago)

dudes yer supposed to think about sports to make SEX last longer, not threads.

miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:21 (twenty years ago)

I got my driver's license today! I felt like a 16 year old school girl. the state cop even made me blush during my road test.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:23 (twenty years ago)

he said i must be a lot of fun at parties.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:23 (twenty years ago)

haha everybody booed ashlee simpson - no rimjobs for chuck in the orange bowl!


xpost - holy shit this kelly clarkson sounds like sleater-kinney! omg wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!

blount, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:24 (twenty years ago)

so, does everyone really hate Cass McCombs?

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:25 (twenty years ago)

Did you take the test with a lampshade on your head scott? What was he talking about?

You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:25 (twenty years ago)

I don't know why i can't watch college football. i'm worried about my eagles. they have, like, a month off before they play another game. that can't be good. i might have to root for the steelers.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:26 (twenty years ago)

aww then it electroed out a bit and she got a lil less alt and lil more soul and it turned into standard linda perry avril alt. eh well. still - HUGE 'anarchy' A on the stage! thank god alex in nyc ain't watching this!

blount, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:26 (twenty years ago)

i think i said something really dumb cuz i was nervous. cops make me nervous.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:27 (twenty years ago)

haha everybody booed ashlee simpson

Deservedly so, for crying out loud! Jess's review of her album was a masterpiece of bile.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:27 (twenty years ago)

we went behind the dmv to this little road that i swear i thought was some sort of dmv speedway and not a real road and i never used my blinker when he made me pull out on to the road and stuff. i think he thought i was retarded.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:28 (twenty years ago)

scott you'd be wise to root for the steelers cuz the eagles ain't going nowhere! winner of packers-falcons goes to the super bowl: BELIEVE THAT!


this is one of the more awkward halftime shows i've seen, i wish they'd just let the marching bands (esp since fucking USC is playing in this game) just do some formations and maybe have will ferrel run out and blow a tuba or something. this kinda blows.

blount, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:30 (twenty years ago)

apparently in massachusetts you have to have a "sponsor" in the back seat of the car with you, so the whole time Maria kept telling the guy that I was actually a very good driver and that she trusted her baby in the car when i was driving. i think it worked. he asked me what the hand signal was for STOP and i had no idea. he passed me anyway. he let me do stuff twice.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:31 (twenty years ago)

i just feel like the way that the eagles ended their season was a real bummer and very deflating. i know all about not getting guys hurt, but it was so depressing.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:32 (twenty years ago)

Thanks for the tip scott (re hand stop signal). I'm going to be getting my license either this month or in February, God willing. And I'm old enough to be your uncle at least.

RS LaRue (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:33 (twenty years ago)

Funny you should mention brass bands, Mr. Blount, I'm listening to this thing called Speed Brass of the Gypsies by Fanfare Savale, some Romanian Gypsy brass ensemble, and they're kicking major butt. Ska/Balkan music pace with mariachi flourishes going to goddamn town, putting it in simplistic terms.

I salute you people getting licenses. But I will refrain myself for the time being.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:35 (twenty years ago)

haha more LOUD boos for ashlee. man o man. i'm somewhat curious about that kelly clarkson, the first part at least.


what the hell is the hand signal for STOP??? surely driving without brake lights is illegal no matter what right?


yeah i can understand not playing starters when you don't have anything to 'play for' but it seems like it might've been good to establish how to win without t.o., then again i'm not gonna pretend i know better than andy reid.

blount, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:36 (twenty years ago)

xpost to Ned:
Brass, Artificial Grass or Falling On Your Ass, No One Strides For Free.

xpost to RS:
But do you need a sponsor in the state of Pennsylvania?

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:37 (twenty years ago)

? I don't think I need a sponsor. I'm going to the test with my driving instructor, maybe he's my sponsor.

RS LaRue (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:38 (twenty years ago)

I went with my driving instructor, but it turned out another guy was going for his test too. It turned out the other guy was legally blind, I kid you not. He had cokebottle glasses and also a big giant handicap rearview mirror rubberbanded to the regular rearview mirror. It unnerved my NYC-I'm-not-like-the-other-people-in-Queens-getting-his-license-at-29-years-old ass, I can tell you.

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:42 (twenty years ago)

All right. Successful compilation and execution. I can go home now. Adios, Amigos.

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:43 (twenty years ago)

i actually had a license for a bit when i moved to connecticut for a bit in the early 90's. i hated it. i only got it cuz my girlfriend at the time bugged me to get one. i was really happy to move back to philly and not ever drive for another 12 years. but here, you really need one. especially with kids and all that. i was getting really tired off biking and walking to town.

the hand signal for stop is your arm straight down outside the car window. he let me guess until i got it right.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:44 (twenty years ago)

i don;t know what the deal is in Mass with the whole sponsor thing. maria had to give her license and registration to the dmv people. it's weird. and the first i had ever heard of it.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:45 (twenty years ago)

drivers tests scare the hell out of me. I've never taken one, and I turn 30 in a month. maybe I should do it already (haha choruses of "um DUH" to follow)

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:49 (twenty years ago)

that gypsy brass stuff by Fanfare Savalle is awesome! its faster than most deathmetal!

chaki in charge (chaki), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:54 (twenty years ago)

it does feel weird to be 36 and sitting next to teenz all giddy and stuff. but what the hey. there was actually one non-teen from africa gettting her first american license.

the cop asked me if i was nervous. i said, hell yeah! and i know how to drive! even though i hadn't done it in so long. it's that spotlight/public-speaking/performance nerves thing. it makes me feel like i'm going nuts.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 03:54 (twenty years ago)

It can be fun to try reading Blount's posts in the voice of Ernest Hemingway; and also try reading Chuck's posts in the voice of Jack Kerouac, with a saxophone improvisation in the background.

moley, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:03 (twenty years ago)

I don't have my license and I'm 27 and, this is crucial, RESIDENT ILX CAR DORK. I can name every single model* De Tomaso produced from 1967 to 1980, but I have never parallel parked in my life.

*Vallelunga, Mangusta, Pantera, Longchamp and Deauville.

What's this place, Biblevania? (natepatrin), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:03 (twenty years ago)

Those of you who didn't have a drivers' liscence before the end of high school must not have grown up in the suburbs ...

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:04 (twenty years ago)

nate there's only like 22 people in america that really know how to parallel park, i wouldn't worry about that.

blount, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:05 (twenty years ago)

Does anybody else who got their drivers license immediately after their 16th birthday feel like doing the cabbage patch right now?

miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:09 (twenty years ago)

Hell no.

Carl Winslow and Jeanne-Claude (deangulberry), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:10 (twenty years ago)

i did okay parallel parking with the cones today! just like on the brady bunch or something. i actually kept parking even after i had done it correctly so that my car was perfectly spaced between the cones. this amused the cop. i asked if it was okay and he said: "yeah, it was fine, i don't know what the hell all that other stuff was."

i grew up in the suburbs, but i was away at bad boys school in rhode island when i turned 16. and when i got back home i was way too busy doing drugs and drinking to get my license. i owe a lot to my drunk and high freinds for driving me around until i was 18. when i was 19 i moved to philly and was safe from carland.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:10 (twenty years ago)

Those of you who didn't have a drivers' liscence before the end of high school must not have grown up in the suburbs ...

hahahahaha try again!

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:11 (twenty years ago)

16 year old kids are the worst drivers in the world. there oughta be a law.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:12 (twenty years ago)

that gypsy brass stuff by Fanfare Savalle is awesome! its faster than most deathmetal!

Made me think of plenty of ska -- and early Fishbone too, which I'm sure would make you happy. ;-)

Those of you who didn't have a drivers' liscence before the end of high school must not have grown up in the suburbs ...

Coronado, CA is the ultimate suburb! It's an ISLAND in San Diego Bay!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:13 (twenty years ago)

The Twin Cities transit system has improved somewhat, though the crucial thing is getting rides to the grocery store; groceries on the bus = UGH FUCK NO. If I got a car it'd be pretty much strictly for groceries and errands and aimless nice-weather day-off cruising, since I live half a mile from work. Also, if I got a car it would totally be a '91 Supra. Or a 180SX.

What's this place, Biblevania? (natepatrin), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:14 (twenty years ago)

I am certainly a worse driver now that I was in my late teens. Now I live in the city and I never drive. I'm way out of practice. On the few occasions when I do drive, I'm less comfortable than I ever have been.

xpost -- how did you guys survive in the suburbs without driver liscences?

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:16 (twenty years ago)

how did you guys survive in the suburbs without driver liscences?

The library was down the street and I could walk to my record store, what more did I need?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:17 (twenty years ago)

the bus, duh.

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:18 (twenty years ago)

i didn't like driving maria's chevy truck when i started practicing again. we bought a used 99 ford escort and it's really easy to drive. plus, it's better for the whole toddler thing. rufus can actually see the road now. in the truck he had to be in one of those little truck jump seats or whatever you call them. all he saw was sky back there.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:19 (twenty years ago)

On Coronado? This isn't Manhattan we're talking about!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:19 (twenty years ago)

groceries on the bus during winter = teh suck. snow = wet floors to make the bags break, oh my!

grocery shopping = bus to, cab back.

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:20 (twenty years ago)

haha I'm moving to philly to be safe from carland in eight months! I can drive but I don't like to

miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:21 (twenty years ago)

my friends drove in high school. and two of my best friends LOVED driving. my friend maggie had a vw microbus that we practically lived in. she lived right down the street from me. i worked across the street from my house(!) at the little old general store when i was 17/18. it was the only store near me for miles. and they sold beer that i would help myself to.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:23 (twenty years ago)

it's actually not so bad driving on this island cuz it's so small and all. there aren't any traffic lights here! which can make intersections a little confusing. but in the winter there are hardly any cars. the summer will be a lot different though. the population jumps dramatically. From about 15,000 people to over a 100,000 people.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:26 (twenty years ago)

Anthony, where are you moving to in Philly? Do you know yet?

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:27 (twenty years ago)

with the way the state is handling the SEPTA situation, philly is edging closer to carland. as of march 1 it'll be 3 bux a stroll on the bus, trolley, or subway. it's gotten completely out of hand, and with a federal gov't clearly interested in the livelihood of the internal combustion engine, it probably won't change. but really, this is a bipartisan failure.

i say this as a philadelphian (pennsport pride!) who doesn't look forward to paying more than a new yorker for our version of metrocard (which can only be bought at the beginning of the month) for less service.

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:36 (twenty years ago)

Anthony, where are you moving to in Philly? Do you know yet?

not yet (I'll start looking eventually but I just know I'm not getting another lease here in State College), but I'd like to be walking distance from south street, I think

miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:56 (twenty years ago)

The bus and subway were fine for getting to work and school, but when going out it was much nicer to take a car. Also, Toronto's late night public transit was ass (and still is), so the car was quite the necessity if you wanted to be out late.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 04:57 (twenty years ago)

The library was down the street and I could walk to my record store, what more did I need?
This post demands some sort of instant iconic status.

The Twin Cities transit system has improved somewhat
C'mon, Nate, take the skyway.

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 05:03 (twenty years ago)

i walked everywhere in philly. i walked and walked and walked. i always lived in center city. near rittenhouse square mostly. near 20th street mostly. 20th and sansom, 20th and pine. always around there. i only took buses early on when i worked in olde city and i was too hungover to walk. i would walk to north philly, south philly, west philly. i loved it. oh, and cabs. those i took at night sometimes. i did live in west philly briefly in the 80's. i liked it there fine too. i will never walk that much again probably.and i always lived near where i worked for the most part. never more then 10 blocks.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 05:03 (twenty years ago)

Is everybody who writes for Pitchfork this stupid????

walking is great.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 05:51 (twenty years ago)

God. Seeing Chuck stick his neck out for Northern State and A.R.E. Weapons makes me want to take back everything negative that I've said about him and replace those statements with bullets.

Carl Winslow and Jeanne-Claude (deangulberry), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 05:54 (twenty years ago)

(kidding of course, life is rad!)

Carl Winslow and Jeanne-Claude (deangulberry), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 05:54 (twenty years ago)

And July 18th, 2003 is BEFORE August 5th 2003, isn't it?

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 06:10 (twenty years ago)

The Twin Cities transit system has improved somewhat

C'mon, Nate, take the skyway.

but i heard it don't move at all like a subway.

[apologizes. turns off computer. goes to bed.]

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 06:17 (twenty years ago)

Does anyone else find it unusual that within the last couple dozen posts on a thread that purportedly has NOTHING to do with driving, FIVE posters don't have driver's licenses (actually FOUR now that Scott's got his but you get my point: it seems like a lot)?

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 07:09 (twenty years ago)

No, because this is a High Correlation Between Who Spend Way Too Much Money and Time Listening to Music and Reading Books and Comix and Things and Thinking and Talking And Writing About These Things *With* People Who Don't Take Care Of Business That Regular Boring People Seem to Take Care of Pretty Easily Shocka!

xpost:
fcc, I wish I had done that an hour ago. But unfortunately I am doing another Barbra Mandrell and burning the Midnight Oil.

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 07:15 (twenty years ago)

More to the point, jaymc, I think there was some air-clearing subject-changing going on there.

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 07:17 (twenty years ago)

This is a seriously schizophrenic thread.
Now let's talk about Lil' Jon.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 07:23 (twenty years ago)

Oh I know, Ken, it still surprised me, tho. ;-)

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 07:26 (twenty years ago)

xpost:
This has become like one of those One Thread Fits All Last Threads Standing from Les Dix-sept Jours de la Nuit

Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 07:28 (twenty years ago)

burning the Midnight Oil.

surely one of the most productive things that can be done with a midnight oil record. ;-)

nedateurist (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 08:02 (twenty years ago)

he always capitalizes.

Carl Winslow and Jeanne-Claude (deangulberry), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 08:24 (twenty years ago)

foiled again!

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 08:37 (twenty years ago)

Better luck next time. And as it is, I did sell off what Midnight Oil I owned years back, so you're onto something.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 10:03 (twenty years ago)

reading this thread reminded me of my bus ride home last night:

a blind lady w/cane got on. one aged/disabled row was empty, one was filled by a homeless woman and her garbage-bagged possesions. blind lady insisted on sitting next to her. "Move your shit, bitch! No, I don't want to sit in that seat, I don't like THAT seat. This is for the aged and disabled..."
Suddenly she's standing up and her cane is poised about three inches from the other woman's face. "Don't Be Fooled By The Eyes!"
"Don't YOU be fooled by them eyes, bitch!"
"That's right. You're a bitch but I'm a bigger bitch..."
(inaudible comment from bus driver)
"Go ahead, call the cops! I'm not sitting in that other seat. Don't Be Fooled By The Eyes!"
The cane is hovering, the homeless woman isn't backing down, when a commanding voice issues from the back of the bus.
"SHUT THE FUCK UP, BOT A YAS! I had to work all day, what did you do? We didn't pay two dollars to hear you argue all the way uptown." The ride continued in silence, the two women still sitting next to each other with their heads turned facing the other way.

lovebug starski (lovebug starski), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 11:39 (twenty years ago)

This is a really depressing thread: having been an original poster, I've been away from ILM for a year now for various reasons, but I'm dipping my toes back in the water to see if it's warm. On this evidence, not. I like Chuck's style, and Accidental Evolution is by far the best book about music I've ever read. (And not just on the litmus test question 'does it make you want to hear the music being written about' but in terms of being smart and funny and taking a position and doing what I see the job of the critic to be). Which doesn't mean it's not wrong to call him to task on particular comments. But one thing people do seem to have forgotten is that you judge an editor as an editor on the work of their contributors, and on the shape of their beat as a whole. VV music section is the only mainstream press music coverage I read weekly. Yes there is an agenda, yes it fits with what Chuck has written elsewhere, and yes I happen to agree with it, largely. Hurray for me. If you don't, you don't, but this kind of barracking is sad.

alext (alext), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 12:44 (twenty years ago)

Seriously, anthony, if you are planning to spend a lot of time ride public transportation in Philadelphia, you'd better monitor the current crisis with SEPTA. $3 fares is madness.

I mostly walk. Like scott, I used to walk all over the place, from the so-called Art Museum area to Indian grocery stores in West Philadelphia, etc. I think the whole thing was a mistake though. I wish I'd learned to drive, like normal people. It's ultimately very limiting not to be able to get around that way.

RS LaRue (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 12:46 (twenty years ago)

i just realized that chuck is sean salisbury and amateurist is john clayton

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 6 January 2005 01:57 (twenty years ago)

i don't even know who sean salisbury and john clayton are!

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 6 January 2005 03:07 (twenty years ago)

Salisbury
http://www.pinupgolf.com/image/bigsalisbury.jpg

Clayton
http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/columnists/clayton_john_ipr.jpg

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 6 January 2005 03:19 (twenty years ago)

I mostly walk. Like scott, I used to walk all over the place, from the so-called Art Museum area to Indian grocery stores in West Philadelphia, etc. I think the whole thing was a mistake though. I wish I'd learned to drive, like normal people. It's ultimately very limiting not to be able to get around that way.

yeah, and special note to manthony, living as i do about a 20 minute walk from south st (where i work) is kind of limiting. on the other hand, living in williamsburg lite fishtown isn't really near much to talk about, that is, things like groceries and so forth.

but you'd be closer to AKA, which is run by mike hoffman, who used to work at 3rd St. Jazz, a store scott remembers fondly as almost everyone does.

whatever happened to that awesome 4 down segment on espn that had clayton squaring off against salisbury? i mean, his appearance as the shonald was nice, but sean's the espn equivalent of dan dierdorf. i lean more toward schlereth and golic (ex-eagle) for player insights.

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Thursday, 6 January 2005 05:59 (twenty years ago)

Philadelphia is weird -- it's a cinch to drive there and no one does it.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 6 January 2005 06:08 (twenty years ago)

I used to walk all over the place, from the so-called Art Museum
If I were to walk through the Fine Arts Museum in Boston,
First I'd go to the room where they keep the Cezannes

Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 6 January 2005 06:20 (twenty years ago)

xpost yall I didn't mean to poke more than gentle fun at that Boomer ady who goes for the gusto via Voice, Mojo, and Pitchfork. I just entioed her cos Manthony wondered if such Boomers be. For my sins, the synaptic clicker on my laptop stopped working, and now I'm back in '95, learning how to use a mouse.Iguess it's not as bad as a thirtysomething driver's test, but still. If it weren't for this(dauntingly) prosthetic vibe, and the fact that she's married, I'd hop on the boat to Kansas and go see her right now.Good night Mrs. Boomer, and respectfully sweet dreamz

don, Thursday, 6 January 2005 06:21 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...
omg, all this thread lacks is l0uis j4gger to make it the worst thread evah!

gershy, Thursday, 12 April 2007 07:55 (eighteen years ago)

two weeks pass...
The headline for the Voice review of new Patti Smith covers album:

"Cheers (and Tears for Fears) for Patti's Own Biograph"

God, if they can't even get their DYLAN right...

da croupier, Thursday, 26 April 2007 15:15 (eighteen years ago)

They think he's a character on 90210.

Not that I'm one to judge...

Nicole, Thursday, 26 April 2007 15:36 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, they know who he is. Editor Rob Harvilla even complained Bob wasn't pondering mortality enough for his taste these days.

da croupier, Thursday, 26 April 2007 15:45 (eighteen years ago)

Maybe Rob would prefer Dylan made a really torrid break-up album, like another Greatest Hits, Vol. 2.

da croupier, Thursday, 26 April 2007 15:51 (eighteen years ago)

I just needed an opportunity to make a bad joke, sorry.

Nicole, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:12 (eighteen years ago)

haha well, likewise

da croupier, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:30 (eighteen years ago)

Oops, I said "?" when I meant "!" somewhere in that spiel. Oh well.

-- chuck, Tuesday, August 5, 2003 1:36 PM (3 years ago)
That's possibly the best thing U ever read on ILM. No scratch that ---- the best thing EVER!

NYCNative, Friday, 27 April 2007 02:19 (eighteen years ago)

five years pass...

love u maura
westhoff, huh?

This cad needs a cordial introduction to Eugene of Oxbow. (forksclovetofu), Friday, 14 September 2012 17:01 (twelve years ago)

and now http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/14/village-voice-editors-blogs-that-he-is-quitting/

Mordy, Friday, 14 September 2012 17:37 (twelve years ago)

Sad re Maura.

also see this:

why is everyone on ilx so betrothed with the village voice?

curmudgeon, Friday, 14 September 2012 17:50 (twelve years ago)

LA Weekly's music section is the worst

omar little, Friday, 14 September 2012 18:28 (twelve years ago)

Oddly enough, look what's just come into being:

https://twitter.com/WorstoffBen

Ned Raggett, Friday, 14 September 2012 18:32 (twelve years ago)

!

omar little, Friday, 14 September 2012 18:52 (twelve years ago)

Oddly enough, look what's just come into being:

https://twitter.com/WorstoffBen

Whoever created this account is a monster.

controversial cabaret roommate (Nicole), Friday, 14 September 2012 19:20 (twelve years ago)

^^^

i know your nuts hurt! who's laughing? (contenderizer), Friday, 14 September 2012 19:25 (twelve years ago)

omg did you see who is following that account

it's a big list of lols

wtf where's my chapbook (DJP), Friday, 14 September 2012 19:28 (twelve years ago)

I thought some of those quotes were made up but....

omar little, Friday, 14 September 2012 19:28 (twelve years ago)

all real, huh?

This cad needs a cordial introduction to Eugene of Oxbow. (forksclovetofu), Friday, 14 September 2012 20:00 (twelve years ago)

dunno about all, but i looked up a few of the most egregious, and yeah

i know your nuts hurt! who's laughing? (contenderizer), Friday, 14 September 2012 20:06 (twelve years ago)

that 20 worst hipster bands thing was some of the most inarticulate music writing I've ever read. That dude is taking over as VV media editor?!?!

Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Friday, 14 September 2012 20:09 (twelve years ago)

that piece, without actually just tossing its cards all on the table face up and being a pure editorial, throws about as much shine at maura as possible :-)

s.clover, Friday, 14 September 2012 20:57 (twelve years ago)

Westhoff's book on Southern rap is pretty decent, but everything else the guy has ever written is egregious. What the hell's the deal there?

fadanuf4erybody, Friday, 14 September 2012 21:03 (twelve years ago)

If it's any consolation, this is a good song to sing along with:
Sometimes it gets so hard to care,
It can't be this way everywhere.
I'm gonna let you pass.
And I'll go last.
Time will tell
Just who has fell
And who's been left be-
hi-i-ind,
When you go your way and I go mine.

dow, Friday, 14 September 2012 21:15 (twelve years ago)

maura got canned for this guy?

tuomas without a nose ring (The Reverend), Friday, 14 September 2012 21:41 (twelve years ago)

He's overseeing the blogs throughout the chain.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 14 September 2012 21:42 (twelve years ago)

chain chain chain

dow, Friday, 14 September 2012 21:45 (twelve years ago)

What the hell's the deal there?

― fadanuf4erybody, Friday, September 14, 2012 5:03 PM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark

he does what people ask him to do

J0rdan S., Friday, 14 September 2012 21:50 (twelve years ago)

i almost feel bad for westhoff. he's being crucified all over the place today dude to forces that are much bigger than him, and idk, he's given a platform to a few very good writers. and he's keeping himself employed. but i'm not sure if i've ever liked his writing and his editorial direction of the LA weekly section was pretty terroristic.

J0rdan S., Friday, 14 September 2012 21:56 (twelve years ago)

i actually thought maura left of her own accord when i heard this, given the general sort of intransigence and cluelessness that VV media management traffic in, so i'm surprised to read the quote above where she said the decision wasn't hers

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 14 September 2012 21:56 (twelve years ago)

one thought i had today was whether or not this is going to be the final nail in the coffin of P&J and whether some other site (or people independently) should try and pull a jackin pop 2.0

J0rdan S., Friday, 14 September 2012 21:59 (twelve years ago)

yeah that definitely crossed my mind today

some dude, Friday, 14 September 2012 22:16 (twelve years ago)

sorry maura, you did a good job

listen to that wu-tang whistle blowin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 14 September 2012 22:20 (twelve years ago)

I'm just glad that finally someone in the Voice can have the courage to applaud Lenny Kravitz "for never conforming to racial expectations."

cr4bdbgs, Friday, 14 September 2012 22:36 (twelve years ago)

there are larger forces behind westoff's editorial work but when its your byline below 'Interview With a Raver Who Wears Electrical Tape on Her Boobs' and you are a 40 year old man and that raver is a senior in high school, then you deserve all the shit that comes your way

bugler, Friday, 14 September 2012 23:09 (twelve years ago)

i honestly thought the worstoff twitter was just a parody thing, holy shit at those being actual quotes

some dude, Friday, 14 September 2012 23:10 (twelve years ago)

Heh, the guy who wrote this really casually racist article is the editor-in-chief of the Seattle Weekly. :/

tuomas without a nose ring (The Reverend), Friday, 14 September 2012 23:17 (twelve years ago)

i honestly thought the worstoff twitter was just a parody thing, holy shit at those being actual quotes

Quotes from his writing and his twitter. What a prince.

controversial cabaret roommate (Nicole), Friday, 14 September 2012 23:18 (twelve years ago)

This is dredging up a crapton of old memories. I thought I'd already gotten about as cynical as I could get about media stuff, but at this rate I'm going to be surprised if all media isn't just advertiser-sponsored in the next ten years, except for maybe the ny times and le monde or something, both of which will be blog subdivisions of huffpo, and the Sun, which will be the website of record, by virtue of being the only outlet that pays writers in anything other than promotional swag and jujubes.

s.clover, Friday, 14 September 2012 23:26 (twelve years ago)

i just found out that a local mag i write for, The Urbanite, announced today that it's shutting down, so yeah, definitely feeling like that at the moment.

some dude, Friday, 14 September 2012 23:30 (twelve years ago)

Remember the black R&B (LOL) singer named Brandy? What happened to her?

Andy K, Friday, 14 September 2012 23:31 (twelve years ago)

i feel like a lot of folks have missed out on just how bad the la weekly music section is. nothing but really poorly done challopy lists and pix of raver chicks it seems.

omar little, Friday, 14 September 2012 23:32 (twelve years ago)

village voice's sound of the city blog is going to become the pits, isn't it?

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 14 September 2012 23:33 (twelve years ago)

yes it is

J0rdan S., Friday, 14 September 2012 23:33 (twelve years ago)

i feel like the state of "alternative" journalism nowadays is like one huge intentional middle finger to anyone with taste--seemingly with few exceptions, the most egregiously awful writers have been promoted to editorial positions. under this set of circumstances chuck eddy looks like edmund wilson.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 14 September 2012 23:35 (twelve years ago)

at least we get to work on some puns involving the new music editor's prophetic last name, "worstoff"

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 14 September 2012 23:36 (twelve years ago)

"are you better or worstoff than four years ago?"

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 14 September 2012 23:36 (twelve years ago)

worstoff IS a pun, his name is westhoff

some dude, Friday, 14 September 2012 23:41 (twelve years ago)

oh shows how much i know.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 14 September 2012 23:50 (twelve years ago)

the saga continues...

Ben Westhoff ‏@brwestho
New Voice music editor takes the reigns a week from Monday.

J0rdan S., Saturday, 15 September 2012 00:37 (twelve years ago)

The 'saga' shows the guy can't even spell reins right!

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 15 September 2012 00:38 (twelve years ago)

Reigndance

controversial cabaret roommate (Nicole), Saturday, 15 September 2012 00:39 (twelve years ago)

The reigns in Spane fall manly on the planes.

Andy K, Saturday, 15 September 2012 00:40 (twelve years ago)

RTVM: Do you think being on Real World helped with Reigndance at all?

Andre: No, not at all, MTV at that time was all about Nirvana, Pearl Jam and that scene.

Andy K, Saturday, 15 September 2012 00:42 (twelve years ago)

I have been so tempted to go to a reigndance show, but I never did.

controversial cabaret roommate (Nicole), Saturday, 15 September 2012 00:44 (twelve years ago)

for all intensive purposes, this dude seems like a solid editor. a+.

s.clover, Saturday, 15 September 2012 00:52 (twelve years ago)

his editorial direction of the LA weekly section was pretty terroristic. Gory details please? This may matter to some of us soon.

dow, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:12 (twelve years ago)

nice quote at the end of this 9 year old friggin' weird-ass thread:

"under this set of circumstances chuck eddy looks like edmund wilson."

and i just read the whole headache again so its all "fresh" in my mind. i'm not gonna forgetfullness anything!

scott seward, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:21 (twelve years ago)

Fuuuuck. Really?!?? Jesus Christ this sucks on several levels

Raymond Cummings, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:23 (twelve years ago)

Sorry to hear that, Al.

It's getting tougher and tougher out there

Raymond Cummings, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:30 (twelve years ago)

it's kind of funny/sad how those of us who trade in the written word scolded the music industry so much for not adapting to the internet fast enough to develop a sustainable new model that's remotely as profitable as the new one, when it turns out us typewriter monkeys got it way way worse in that department

some dude, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:33 (twelve years ago)

Film crits had it worse, or first, overall. Also later, like Hoberman. The hits just keep on coming.

dow, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:36 (twelve years ago)

eh, hoberman's fine

J0rdan S., Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:36 (twelve years ago)

i didn't mean music writers specifically, i meant broadly people working in newspapers, magazines etc.

some dude, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:38 (twelve years ago)

Jordan, just the man I wanted to see. "Terroristic" in the section? Please tell.

dow, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:39 (twelve years ago)

i think maura will be fine too! she is way smart and and i know its hard finding a gig like that but if anyone can find a cool gig she can. anyone working at the VV now must have one eye on the clock anyway. not exactly a job-security kinda joint anymore.

maybe she'll go work at rhapsody with chuck and rob!

scott seward, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:47 (twelve years ago)

for your convenience, voice media and idolator have now merged and will be known as violator.

s.clover, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:50 (twelve years ago)

yeah Maura will have other jobs, for sure, maybe a way better one. but she did THAT job really well and it was fun to be a small part of it, so i'm still gonna be bummed. (xpost lol)

some dude, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:51 (twelve years ago)

clover are you aware that there's already a company called violator and its founder recently committed suicide?

some dude, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:52 (twelve years ago)

"Terroristic" in the section? Please tell.

― dow, Friday, September 14, 2012 10:39 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

i'd just go and take a look at the LA weekly blog. or read any of the stories from today about maura being released and westhoff taking over. they've put all their chips on pageview whoring and outright trolling, along with doing things like breaking up a 600 word story into 4 pages. real dumpster diving shit. it's no way to sustain a business, either.

J0rdan S., Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:52 (twelve years ago)

for your convenience, voice media and idolator have now merged and will be known as violator.

commentary and dissent have merged to form dysentery.

lord sitar and peter gunz (get bent), Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:53 (twelve years ago)

are you aware that there's already a company called dysentery and its founder recently pooped?

lag∞n, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:54 (twelve years ago)

some dude -- oh man, i didn't put two and two together and recognize the bad-taste connotation to my joke. didn't intend that at all.

s.clover, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:55 (twelve years ago)

haha i wasn't saying your joke was in poor taste because of that, just was the association i made

some dude, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:56 (twelve years ago)

yeah la weekly is generally completely unreadable but worse than ever over the past six months.

omar little, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:57 (twelve years ago)

now that jonathan gold is gone, karina longworth is the only reason to read it.

lord sitar and peter gunz (get bent), Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:58 (twelve years ago)

maura should just have her own thing for real. or get together with her pal daphne and create a music website that has daphne's nu-best music writing series as an anchor maybe? and steal away all the ilxors who make pitchfork worth reading and have them write for it. and al too. and matos, i guess. he'll be in there somewhere. he always is! i can be the streaming netflix critic. that's all i know anymore. amanda palmer could help her kickstart it!

scott seward, Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:58 (twelve years ago)

xp: and sometimes i skim the rollins column, but it's pretty self-aggrandizing.

lord sitar and peter gunz (get bent), Saturday, 15 September 2012 02:59 (twelve years ago)

is musto the last remnant of the 'real' voice left? not counting hentoff's sorta return, or other vets popping up w/ the occasional piece

balls, Saturday, 15 September 2012 03:00 (twelve years ago)

the new food critic for the weekly seems to be a lot more negative and nitpicky than JG was. he always seemed to go w/"if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all" and skim over the bits he didn't like at places he thought were ok.

omar little, Saturday, 15 September 2012 03:00 (twelve years ago)

i liked gold's style of "yes, this restaurant serves this popular dish, but that's not why you go here."

lord sitar and peter gunz (get bent), Saturday, 15 September 2012 03:02 (twelve years ago)

Scott tying the day's threads together

Raymond Cummings, Saturday, 15 September 2012 03:04 (twelve years ago)

I was supposed to do a Voice interview feature on CS Yeh's new album for October; time to find a new home for that I guess

Raymond Cummings, Saturday, 15 September 2012 03:06 (twelve years ago)

Regimes end so suddenly in music journalism. It's scary and painful even after a decade plus of this sort of thing, not least b/c you develop a kindship w the people you write for

P.S. what up strongo

Raymond Cummings, Saturday, 15 September 2012 03:08 (twelve years ago)

man i miss writing for strongo too. and our other CP eds that left this last year or two. fuck.

some dude, Saturday, 15 September 2012 03:09 (twelve years ago)

For reals, yeah. I mean, we're all on FB and junk but it isn't the same

Raymond Cummings, Saturday, 15 September 2012 03:17 (twelve years ago)

The LA Weekly's been going downhill since 2010 when they started getting rid of some of their best writers, but yeah, the music coverage has been really lame in ht last year. The Rollins column, ech.

Jean-Luc Poncey (lpz), Saturday, 15 September 2012 04:23 (twelve years ago)

<3

maura, Saturday, 15 September 2012 06:06 (twelve years ago)

i actually thought maura left of her own accord when i heard this, given the general sort of intransigence and cluelessness that VV media management traffic in, so i'm surprised to read the quote above where she said the decision wasn't hers

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, September 14, 2012 9:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wow as did i. ughhhh @ all of this

lex pretend, Saturday, 15 September 2012 07:09 (twelve years ago)

nu-village voice in full effect!

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/09/lionel_knows_be.php

scott seward, Saturday, 15 September 2012 14:37 (twelve years ago)

being as how the state of professional music journalism is so depressing here in 2012... thank god for ilx

Mordy, Saturday, 15 September 2012 14:41 (twelve years ago)

i did not know lionel ritchie had gone country

lag∞n, Saturday, 15 September 2012 14:44 (twelve years ago)

I would urge people not to click on that link, pageviews are all these creeps want anyway.

controversial cabaret roommate (Nicole), Saturday, 15 September 2012 14:45 (twelve years ago)

the entry for Brandy in particular reads like something from a Jackie Harvey column

Did communist FB take down the awesome bacon quran picture? (DJ Mencap), Saturday, 15 September 2012 14:58 (twelve years ago)

I would urge people not to click on that link, pageviews are all these creeps want anyway.

― controversial cabaret roommate (Nicole), Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:45 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark

c sharp major, Saturday, 15 September 2012 15:06 (twelve years ago)

Everyone just needs to relax. This thing that's happening to VV is a totally natural phenomenon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuKjBIBBAL8

Old Lunch, Saturday, 15 September 2012 15:33 (twelve years ago)

"Natural" or not, the fact that a once highly respected publication is losing another talented editor/writer, is not something that I want to "relax" about.

curmudgeon, Saturday, 15 September 2012 18:02 (twelve years ago)

I'm saying the VV is the husk of an ant being driven to its inevitable demise by the brain-devouring fungus which is its pageview-driven new direction. Which is a metaphor. Involving a natural process that's completely horrifying and unrelaxing. Which is irony.

Old Lunch, Saturday, 15 September 2012 19:03 (twelve years ago)

Ah. Ok

curmudgeon, Saturday, 15 September 2012 19:22 (twelve years ago)

do they still have nsfw party pics?

how's life, Saturday, 15 September 2012 21:06 (twelve years ago)

ahhhh, "burlesque at the bell house". now that's what i'm talking about. 90 pages of titty pictures. i'm headed to applebee's. see you chumps later.

how's life, Saturday, 15 September 2012 21:13 (twelve years ago)

Huzzah.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/09/brian_mcmanus_n.php

Ned Raggett, Monday, 17 September 2012 19:34 (twelve years ago)

Still so fucking pissed they fired (or did she quit?) Maura. She was the only reason I read that rag.

marginal victory, Monday, 17 September 2012 23:13 (twelve years ago)

You mean you don't want countless listicles and articles about strippers? For shame.

controversial cabaret roommate (Nicole), Monday, 17 September 2012 23:35 (twelve years ago)

can we have articles *by* strippers?

dow, Monday, 17 September 2012 23:37 (twelve years ago)

i don't think she's a stripper, and its not really an article, but the author of this Voice listicle was groped a lot by rando creepers at burning man.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/09/burning_man_gue.php

scott seward, Tuesday, 18 September 2012 03:09 (twelve years ago)

don't know why its in the music section either really. though i know there is music at burning man.

scott seward, Tuesday, 18 September 2012 03:12 (twelve years ago)

Still so fucking pissed they fired (or did she quit?) Maura. She was the only reason I read that rag.

― marginal victory, Monday, September 17, 2012

Per the NY Times blogpost posted upthread, she was fired

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 18 September 2012 03:14 (twelve years ago)

This new editor is so talented:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/09/reviews_of_wine.php

"Here at Sound of the City, however, we're fearless motherfuckers who refuse to be pushed around. Also, we're drunk."

Watch out guys, we've got a badass over here.

controversial cabaret roommate (Nicole), Tuesday, 18 September 2012 16:29 (twelve years ago)

that's sort of an old school journalism thing... no more needlessly self-mythologizing tho

instafapper (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 18 September 2012 17:04 (twelve years ago)

"no less" i mean

instafapper (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 18 September 2012 17:05 (twelve years ago)

been dying for ANYONE to post something he's written that is, if not noteworthy, at least readable and justifies his existence. too lazy to do it on my own which is why I don't really give a shit. /internethardman

Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 18 September 2012 17:26 (twelve years ago)

the wine thing is terrible. the one page of it i could take. should be on, like, the national lampoon website if they still have one.

scott seward, Tuesday, 18 September 2012 17:31 (twelve years ago)

jurnilism: http://blogs.laweekly.com/westcoastsound/2012/07/diplo_express_yourself_contest_winners_pop_that_ass.php

s.clover, Tuesday, 18 September 2012 17:32 (twelve years ago)

okay i checked. r.i.p. natlamp

http://www.nationallampoon.com/

scott seward, Tuesday, 18 September 2012 17:33 (twelve years ago)

voice music section online should just be a link to something awful site now. cut out the middleman.

scott seward, Tuesday, 18 September 2012 17:34 (twelve years ago)

thank u sclover

also like VV bio noted his book on philly dive bars which, even if it's like your only book you don't really lead w/ that

Grimy Little Pimp (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 18 September 2012 17:34 (twelve years ago)

If indeed one were to find oneself interviewing the winner of such a contest (please Jesus noooo, I'll be good just please nooo), those might well be decent questions to ask. But any evidence of his editing skills?

dow, Tuesday, 18 September 2012 17:53 (twelve years ago)

http://instagram.com/p/QFI2dLpJB8/

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 27 September 2012 13:51 (twelve years ago)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2012/09/24/village-voice-alt-weekly-chain-sold-in-management-buyout/

EVERYONE COOKING SCMABLED EGGS,CHEESE WITH TOASTER!! (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 27 September 2012 14:06 (twelve years ago)

That was mentioned on the other Voice thread I think:

Village Voice Media being acquired by New Times very soon

curmudgeon, Thursday, 27 September 2012 14:09 (twelve years ago)

<3 that instagram

whiter than... this? (Ówen P.), Thursday, 27 September 2012 14:41 (twelve years ago)

http://www.villagevoice.com/2012-09-26/film/half-a-century-in-the-new-york-film-festival-thrives/2/#livefyre

gemko
Antoine D'Anthac is the name of the fictional playwright within Resnais' film. Jean Anouilh is the real-life playwright being adapted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Anouilh

Factcheckers are people employed by a publication to prevent errors like this from finding their way into print.

Ham Lushbaugh (Eric H.), Thursday, 27 September 2012 15:50 (twelve years ago)

Antoine D'Anthac burrrrrrn

EVERYONE COOKING SCMABLED EGGS,CHEESE WITH TOASTER!! (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 27 September 2012 17:42 (twelve years ago)

I just got an email from the voice entitled "Weekly Music News: Funny Fart Noises." Case closed.

this is the dream of avril and chad (jer.fairall), Thursday, 27 September 2012 20:20 (twelve years ago)

lol i browsed past the vv music page the other day out of curiosity, saw that headline, and just kept it moving

some dude, Thursday, 27 September 2012 20:23 (twelve years ago)

that's not true, i clicked on the joke review of cruel summer and the kanye sex tape

some dude, Thursday, 27 September 2012 20:23 (twelve years ago)

x-post-Editor decided that was the only way to get people to read a review of a movie re longtime WBAI radio host Bob Fass.

curmudgeon, Thursday, 27 September 2012 20:32 (twelve years ago)

I'm not defending the headline, just noting what the fart article is actually about

curmudgeon, Thursday, 27 September 2012 20:34 (twelve years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/gxJh3.gif

The interview process will include an editing test. . . . Include recent clips, if you have them.

mookieproof, Saturday, 29 September 2012 04:56 (twelve years ago)

1) edit here is a sentence about guitarist Al Di Meola that I once read in a local publication

mookieproof, Saturday, 29 September 2012 04:59 (twelve years ago)

two weeks pass...

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/10/this_week_in_th_70.php

Elsewhere, Raymond Cummings chats with C.S. Yeh about his sonic shift, and the Noise Maker's new embrace of-- shutters-- reverb and melody.

I mean, really

The Owls of Ja Rule (DJP), Thursday, 18 October 2012 15:10 (twelve years ago)

eep

tylerw, Thursday, 18 October 2012 15:11 (twelve years ago)

my son says "latter" for "ladder" because he's convinced i mistakenly pronounce all ts in the middle of words as ds, so he autocorrects on the fly, if that makes any sense

anyway, what i mean is that maybe all that's happening here is that the writer is the 3-year-old son of an american expat

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 18 October 2012 15:15 (twelve years ago)

also, reverb and melody? Is reverb alien to noise?

michael bolton's reckless daughter (Hurting 2), Thursday, 18 October 2012 15:20 (twelve years ago)

McManus seems so simple, like a turkey that drowns in the rain because it doesn't have the sense not to stare up into the sky.

controversial cabaret roommate (Nicole), Thursday, 18 October 2012 15:35 (twelve years ago)

nice pice by ray tho

bugler, Thursday, 18 October 2012 16:29 (twelve years ago)

piece*

bugler, Thursday, 18 October 2012 16:29 (twelve years ago)

etiding, what are it.

s.clover, Thursday, 18 October 2012 16:32 (twelve years ago)

http://childrenstech.com/files/2011/08/Picture-4-300x221.png

i highly recommend this book about a turkey who's so stupid it can't even wear simple articles of clothing correctly that other animals have no problem with. my son goes into hysterics yelling "silly turkey!" at every page.

some dude, Thursday, 18 October 2012 16:34 (twelve years ago)

hehe

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 18 October 2012 16:39 (twelve years ago)

i feel like i need to point out that beloved ilxor ray himself was 99 percent not responsible for this heinous act against coherence

charlie the luna (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 18 October 2012 16:51 (twelve years ago)

seriously though i had my problems with harvilla's reign obviously and maura was always pushing a boulder up a hill while being pecked by vultures but jesus christ the brazenness with which they've just decided to take daily massive dumps on the voice's legacy since her departure is kinda breathtaking

charlie the luna (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Thursday, 18 October 2012 16:52 (twelve years ago)

have not been surprised by any of it since the great purge.

scott seward, Thursday, 18 October 2012 17:02 (twelve years ago)

So how much of this crap winds up in the actual newspaper? And how many pages is the music section these days? (I haven't seen an actual issue in forever, not that I want to.)

xhuxk, Thursday, 18 October 2012 17:13 (twelve years ago)

music features take up two pages, the rest is on the web

maura, Thursday, 18 October 2012 19:47 (twelve years ago)

Thanx Bulger!

Raymond Cummings, Friday, 19 October 2012 00:57 (twelve years ago)

I didn't even know someone as stupid as Brian had the capacity to get his feelings hurt -- I assumed he just stared off into space all day drooling and jerking off:

Brian McManus ‏@mcguilloteen
The ilx circle jerk up boring mountain trudges forever onward.

Sug ban (Nicole), Saturday, 20 October 2012 13:23 (twelve years ago)

*shutters*

The Owls of Ja Rule (DJP), Saturday, 20 October 2012 13:49 (twelve years ago)

Shutters will never not be funny.

Sug ban (Nicole), Saturday, 20 October 2012 13:50 (twelve years ago)

beef shutters

WmC, Saturday, 20 October 2012 13:52 (twelve years ago)

most ppl would think a circle jerk has to be essentially static but this kid flips all scripts

zvookster, Saturday, 20 October 2012 14:11 (twelve years ago)

can't believe no one invited me to the ilx circle jerk ;_;

tylerw, Saturday, 20 October 2012 19:02 (twelve years ago)

jerking off while hiking sounds rather revolutionary, i'm impressed

lil dirk (J0rdan S.), Saturday, 20 October 2012 19:18 (twelve years ago)

Googling turns up all sorts of healthy outdoors activities.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 20 October 2012 19:31 (twelve years ago)

hah so next level to respond to criticism of yr writing w/a mixed metaphor tweet

--bob marley (lag∞n), Saturday, 20 October 2012 19:57 (twelve years ago)

yes! amazing

Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 October 2012 20:24 (twelve years ago)

still hasn't been fixed!

sleeve, Saturday, 20 October 2012 20:28 (twelve years ago)

most ppl would think a circle jerk has to be essentially static but this kid flips all scripts

― zvookster, Saturday, October 20, 2012 10:11 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lmao

awful wedded wein (some dude), Saturday, 20 October 2012 20:47 (twelve years ago)

It's the oldest established permanent floating circle jerk in New York

Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 October 2012 20:57 (twelve years ago)

"The Oldest Circle Jerk In New York" is one of the best Simon & Garfunkel tunes.

EZ Snappin, Saturday, 20 October 2012 21:04 (twelve years ago)

ha, not sure your got the reference

http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/198848/Guys-and-Dolls-Movie-Clip-The-Oldest-Established.html

Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 October 2012 21:22 (twelve years ago)

I got it. Just added another tune to the jerk fest.

EZ Snappin, Saturday, 20 October 2012 21:24 (twelve years ago)

three weeks pass...

:o

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/11/ocean-weekend-miguel-best.php?page=all

my hands tra cer (some dude), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 01:53 (twelve years ago)

Ocean is an "emo soulster"

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 01:54 (twelve years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM5U7tAw47o

my hands tra cer (some dude), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 01:56 (twelve years ago)

(This thread is so close to the Neil Young thread, I keep reading it as Everybody Knows This Is Stupid.)

cruel silver of hope (Eazy), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 01:57 (twelve years ago)

Not a gripe, but it'd be cool if people posted the full Voice headline with a link so we know what the troll bait is without having to give them any more page hits.

Come Into My Layer (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 02:01 (twelve years ago)

Three artists are on the lips and minds and fingertips of critics

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 10:14 (twelve years ago)

a chest-thumping façade that's foreign to Ocean, who seldom covers the heart on his sleeve

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 10:15 (twelve years ago)

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9ts5d2Q8s1qf7pbs.gif

#YOLO ONO (lex pretend), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 10:16 (twelve years ago)

In a perfect world, these r & b rebels would all get their due from the pale-faced criterati at the end of the year. But let's be real here

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 10:16 (twelve years ago)

Other years each would've made a fine token choice.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 10:17 (twelve years ago)

tbh I was surprised this revive wasn't about the jazz article

thraeds of life (The Reverend), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 20:53 (twelve years ago)

lol lex

flopson, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 21:02 (twelve years ago)

lex needs to go in the overuse of the same gif penalty box tbh

bish don't kill my bosch (some dude), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 21:43 (twelve years ago)

tbh I was surprised this revive wasn't about the jazz article

So was I!

It's sad how thoroughly dumb their music section has become. McManus is the editorial equivalent of Guy Fieri.

this will surprise many (Nicole), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 21:46 (twelve years ago)

i put the jazz thing here instead

OK, is this the worst piece of music writing ever?

it was a toss-up...

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 21:52 (twelve years ago)

a fine token choice
a fine token choice
a fine token choice
a fine token choice
a fine token choice
a fine token choice
a fine token choice
a fine token choice
a fine token choice
a fine token choice
a fine token choice
a fine token choice
a fine token choice
a fine token choice
a fine token choice

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 21:57 (twelve years ago)

haha there's no way i'm actually reading that thing (i thought it was just a joke on twitter at first) but that the fucking VILLAGE VOICE is running a ten jazz albums you should hear before you die listicle (and apparently calling quintet at massey hall super obscure) is as big a sign of the voice's decline and betrayal of its former self i can imagine short of endorsing romney.

balls, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 22:00 (twelve years ago)

romney made a jazz record?

Albert Crampus (NickB), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 22:04 (twelve years ago)

balls you must read it. compared to the writing itself, the concept is like a robert wilson opera.

s.clover, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 22:07 (twelve years ago)

1. Miles Davis
Kind of Blue
I can still remember the first time I heard this album. I was 17, and I was driving my Subaru Legacy Wagon in the rain. I drove the car to my grandparent's house, and put it on. It was only about a five-minute drive, but I ended parked outside of their house, the windshield wipers swatting away rain -- the album blaring. I sat in the driveway until the album ended, and, well, music was never the same for me. It's a composition, released in 1959, that is often considered the definitive jazz album. Honestly, there are some jazz purists who probably would die if they found out our generation was unfamiliar with it. Just listen to who was featured: Coltrane, Bill Evans, Cannonball Adderley, Paul Chambers, Jimmy Cobb. If you're about to go sky diving, and you're not sure if you're going to survive, play this album on the car ride over. Why is it so great? Let's not try to put it into words. It might be something unsayable.

might be

balls, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 22:17 (twelve years ago)

really think this era has to be the nadir, anything dumber is just gonna be sentence fragments, something abstract enough it's occasionally accidentally poetic. this reads like some english teacher assigned the backup left tackle on a jv football team an essay on jazz and he put it off until the bus ride to school the morning it was due. this hack's twitter feed is hilarious btw - lots of musings, posings at being a modern day bukowski, kerouac even occasionally interrupted by "Check out my piece on SNES, nostalgia, and multiplayer games. RT @OCWeekly"Top Five Super Nintendo Multiplayer Games http://ow.ly/fg4xd";

balls, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 22:28 (twelve years ago)

wait, don't get confused. there are now TWO listicles. the one posted yesterday that was subject to mass ridicule and the apologetic almost real one today that was posted as if it were a correction.

massey hall wss on the listicle posted today.

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 22:30 (twelve years ago)

yeah i saw that also, good lord

neither as hilariously 'i am in way over my head' bad as this - http://blogs.ocweekly.com/heardmentality/2012/11/10_albums_while_studying.php

balls, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 22:32 (twelve years ago)

Joseph A. Lapin ‏@JosephALapin

I had a zombie portrait made today.

goole, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 22:37 (twelve years ago)

oh that classical link
i can't even

Everybody did shit, art happened! (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 22:44 (twelve years ago)

I LITERALLY can't even. It would hurt me too much.

multiple decades of jazz (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 23:06 (twelve years ago)

That was pretty bad.

Mule, Wednesday, 14 November 2012 23:17 (twelve years ago)

i only skimmed one page of the classical bit, i don't want to live in a world where things like that happen

only Brod can judge me (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 14 November 2012 23:25 (twelve years ago)

Fellow New Yorkers,

We hope that this message reaches you well. The New York City metropolitan area, New Jersey, Long Island and beyond has been hit very hard by Hurricane Sandy. We would like to update you in regards to Hurricane Sandy and The Village Voice.

As many of you know, The Village Voice office is located in the East Village in Manhattan, which remains without power since Monday evening but we were very lucky to have sustained no damage. We are working diligently to resume our normal day-to-day operations and functions with our staff, readers, clients, and partners.

Please note, this week's issue is in the process of being circulated, our website continues to be updated with news, and our client and partner campaigns are unaffected. If you have any specific questions, please reach out to your sales rep directly or email ret✧✧✧@villagevo✧✧✧.c✧✧. We stand as your partner and are ready to assist you in any way that we can during this time.

Thank you for understanding. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Our best wishes to all of you who have been, and continue to be, affected by this storm.

Just received this.

how's life, Friday, 16 November 2012 15:40 (twelve years ago)

one year passes...

http://gawker.com/village-voice-staffers-sick-of-low-wages-and-bad-coffee-1598032905

everybody loves lana del raymond (s.clover), Monday, 30 June 2014 18:33 (ten years ago)

Granted they kind of brought it on themselves by putting it in their list of demands, but I really hope this doesn't get attention only for the "lol employees want good coffee" angle.

Bus Sex Teen Busted After Queef Beef (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 30 June 2014 20:06 (ten years ago)


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