Scotland: Why Is It So Musically Inept?/Why has Nothing Good Musically Come From A Nation 10 X the Size Of Manchester/.

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Ok taken from my posting here 100 best scottish albums according to the scotsman

I agree with those such as Dadaismus that say Scotland hasn't produced anything worthwhile. This 'nation' of unionists has never produced anything other than copies of superor work or middle of the road trash like Travis, Texas, Deacon Blue, Simple Minds etc. And joke bands like The Proclaimers and Marmalade. Compare scotland with somewhere like Manchester. Scotland just doesnt cut it as a musical nation. Wonderful inventors and explorers but pathetic musically. If the best it can do is have american bands like Talking Heads and Garbage et al claimed as scottish then something is wrong.
Even the so called best bands from scotland like Mogwai & Primal Scream are just rip ofs of superior bands and ideas. For a country of 5 million its truly surprising that it hasnt produced someone innovative.
-- George Richardson (george_king_richardso...), October 21st, 2003.

Just why is a city like Manchester able to produce better bands than an entire country 10X the size of it. Why is Scotland so inept at producing quality bands?

Only scottish band I ever liked was Orange Juice.

― George Richardson, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

i (a canadian) always thought scotland was one of the best musical breeding grounds in the world, so all this anti-scotland stuff here lately really perplexes me.

bert jansch, belle and sebastian, the delgados, arab strap, beta band, mogwai, teenage fanclub, miles davis, ballboy, the list goes on... maybe it's just my melancholy slighly folky bias skew...

― Sean M (Sean M), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll give you Bert Jansch. John Martyn too.

― George Richardson, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I liked that Scottish list - Scottish indie records seem to have worn much better than most others for me. Tom Wilson's compilations of goonish hardcore are some of my favourite dance records too. Also I am quite fond of the whole aspirational white soul thing - Scottish bands were so unapologetic about it.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I too think that Scotland's ploughed its own charming furrow for a long time now. Belle & Sebastian couldn't have come from anywhere but Glasgow and Teenage Fanclub, The Delgados, Arab Strap, Mogwai, Urusei Yatsura, AC Acoustics, Ballboy, Franz Ferdinand et al are all good bands. Also, magic seems to happen in Scotland. The whole rediscovery of Big Star can be traced back to one set of Bellshill schoolmates, but resulted in a truly wonderful thing like Alex Chilton being coaxed into playing at the 13th Note when he couldn't get arrestd elsewhere in the world. See also BMX Bandits getting Dan Penn to sing on one of their songs and convincing Kim Fowley to produce them. Together with the contributions of Postcard and Creation, I'd say that Scotland's pissed over Manchester's recorded contribution for the last 25 years.

― Persecution Smith, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Pissed over Manchester? Have you taken leave of your senses? Please tell me where exactly. here's a reminder of Manchester's contribution: Joy Division, (the list could end here and Scotland's trainer would have the towel ready to be flung), New Order, The Smiths, Stone Roses, Happy Mondays, Doves, The Fall, Ruthless Rap Assassins, Elbow, Paris Angels, Durutti Column, Black Grape, Northside, A Certain Ratio, The Chameleons, James, Buzzcocks, Alberto Y Lost Trios Paranoias, Hanky Park, 39 Phoenix, Puressence, 808 State.

Come on Scotchland had Wet, Wet,Wet and The Proclaimers in?!?!?!?!

― Sundance, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 18:24 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'm lying in the gutter/And I'm wishing I was lucky"

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 18:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree that Scottish musicians rarely seem to be pioneers, in the traditional understanding of the word, at least. Maybe they are too in love with classic old records for that. But at their best (Orange Juice, Belle & Sebastian) they can turn this to their peculiar, beguiling ends and come up with something untouchable.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i'll see your wet wet wet and raise you with simply red

― joni, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:34 (twenty-one years ago)

well, we do have some of the best djs on the planet!

― stirmonster, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Northside

ha ha ha ha ha!

― stirmonster, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Inept? *snickers*

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:41 (twenty-one years ago)

It's all about the Mary Chain, kids - aaall about the Mary Chain.

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah I agree Scottish music isn't exactly world changing but the stuff I do happen to be obsessed with (Arab Strap mostly) has a really intimate connection w me. And Scotch-phila, because it's pretty involving and not altogether pretty, is so much better than the regular North-American anglophila that usually coexists w a weak personality or unremarkable tits or general disinterest re: black people.

― DarrensCoq, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:52 (twenty-one years ago)

'Scotch' should be used in connection with whisky and nothing else.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:53 (twenty-one years ago)

'Unremarkable tits' should be used in connection with all things.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

some others from Scotland:

Aereogramme
Lowlife
AC Acoustics
Slam
Bows
Cindytalk
Christ
Boards of Canada
Lapsus Linguae
Long Fin Killie
Under the Dome [ambient band that sound like vintage Tangerine Dream]

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry bro!

― DarrensCoq, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

another scottish artist: One Dove

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:57 (twenty-one years ago)

also:

SCOTLAND, 86--01: Search and Destroy

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I know Charlie already said it, but

THE JESUS AND MARYCHAIN!!!

don't forget Neil Landstrumm.

― Disco Nihilist (mjt), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

and The Associates

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Supergrass! Yeah! Fuckin' A!

...

what?

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:06 (twenty-one years ago)

What have Supergrass got to do with this?!

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

geez does everybody here hate Primal Scream so much they don't even warrant a passing mention? (They are Scottish aren't they? I could've sworn Gillespie was a Weegie...) And the Verve goddammit.

Yes, I like all the British bands that music-loving Brits profess undying hatred for.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought Supergrass were from Scotland. Why, I don't know.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:11 (twenty-one years ago)

since when is miles davis from scotland?

― robin (robin), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Nate, it's OK - the Camden scene is the arsey London cousin of the Scottish central belt.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:13 (twenty-one years ago)

(I have no idea if Supergrass ever actually lived in Camden but you know what I mean)

Miles Davis is from Stourbridge - I thought everyone knew that.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 23:15 (twenty-one years ago)

this is funny...I was going to ask why all of England hasn't produced as many good bands in the last 10 years that can compete with most Scottish bands.
England's idea of new music these days is The Darkness...enough said.

― Sonny, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 03:07 (twenty-one years ago)

>And the Verve goddammit
er... they're from Wigan, England.

i'm a little put off by the implied 'lack of pioneering' by scots. primal scream have always been way ahead of trends, teenage fanclub were the first big-star rip-offs, JAMC were the pioneers of shoegaze... geeez people, come on!

and as much as i agree that manchester has an excellent roster of hometown bands, a lot of them don't exactly have staying power, do they? black grape? pursessence? and i rest my case with northside... most of the scots we've discussed will still sound respectable way off in the future. a lot of manchester bands stay within a narrow margin, whereas the scots are all over the place, which i think is healthy...

― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 07:05 (twenty-one years ago)

primal scream have always been way ahead of trends

???!

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 07:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Fwiw: Scottish bands

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Sundance: our list contained some of the worst bands ever. Northside? Piressence? Paris Angels? The only truly great band in your list was the Buzzcocks.

If we include the Scream and JAMC in the equation then I think Scotland wins hands down.

― Persecution Smith, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 09:30 (twenty-one years ago)

good house music from Glasgow's DJ Q - aren't Slam scottish as well?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 09:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Supergrass are from Oxford.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 10:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Being "the first Big Star rip offs" doth not a pioneer make surely?

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 10:57 (twenty-one years ago)

ok, i went a bit overboard...

i agree ripping of big star isn't pioneering, but they were cultivating that sound before it became so, er... bandwagonesque. (thank you, thank you... i'm here all week)

with primal scream i was implying that they tend to re-invent themselves constantly from album to album before it becomes a flavour of the week, unlike manchester bands, who tend to be very same-y. to be frank, i haven't liked a primal scream album since 'give out but don't give up' *ducks to avoid sniper fire*

― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Travis are musical geniuses, as is also Roddy Frame.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree that Scottish musicians rarely seem to be pioneers, in the traditional understanding of the word, at least.

Who needs pioneers? The best genres already exist anyway

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 11:58 (twenty-one years ago)

this thread is inept.

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 11:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm confused.

I just looked up "Artists and Groups from Manchester, England" and the first name that appeared on the list is Stuart Adamson (The Skids, Big Country).

I thought he came from Dunfermline?

Mind you, the list also includes Level 42 and I'm almost positive they all came from the Isle Of Wight!

Again fwiw, other Manc. bands not mentioned so far: Charlatans, Colourfield (apparently - I always thought they were from London), Crispy Ambulance, George Formby, 808 State, Wayne Fontana & The Mindbenders, Freddie & The Dreamers, Hollies, Inspiral Carpets, Ludus, Magazine / Howard Devoto, Mock Turtles, M People, New FAD's, 10CC.

For me personally, I'm sorry but the combination of Buzzcocks, The Fall, Joy Division, New Order and The Smiths carries it.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:00 (twenty-one years ago)

"Travis are musical geniuses, as is also Roddy Frame."

Travis aren't fit to lick the soles of Mr. Frame's boots.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Roddy Frame is great too. Yet, like Frame, Fran Healy is up there with Paul McCartney, Neil Finn and a few others among the greatest melody-oriented songsmiths ever.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Geir, all I can say is that there must be an extraordinary amount of room "up there" if it incorporates such a vast range of different ability levels!

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)

'Early Doors' is set in Manchester, but the theme music is from Scotland! Name one programme set in Scotland with theme music from Manchester. You can't, can you? I rest my case.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, Scottish programmes are terribly parochial.

The Proclaimers are not 'a joke band' btw. Yes, they're geeky looking twins who sing with Scottish accents, and their worst song launched a million awful 'laugh at the Scots' drunken renditions. Listen to 'Sunshine On Leith'.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:00 (twenty-one years ago)

that bootleg of '500 Miles' over 2 Bad Mice's 'Bombscare' rules also

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)

N. there's nothing bad about being a joke band.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:11 (twenty-one years ago)

the voice of experience?

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Where would Sir Alex stand on all this, though?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Jackie Leven deserves some props (whatever they are)

― Freedom Dupont, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)

they provide support for dodgy constructions

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

...bert jansch, belle and sebastian, the delgados, arab strap, beta band, mogwai, teenage fanclub, miles davis, ballboy, the list goes on... maybe it's just my melancholy slighly folky bias skew...
Uh...Miles Davis was from Chicago.

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 14:53 (twenty-one years ago)

ooops. Alton, Illinois.
My bad.

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 14:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Still, I am completely in love with the idea of claiming Miles Davis for Scotland.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 15:12 (twenty-one years ago)

"Bix Beiderbecke - the best jazz musician ever to emerge from the fertile Phnom Penh scene..."

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 15:12 (twenty-one years ago)

scotland has been responsible for some execrable music and that's what it will be remembered for mostly (for the record i actually love sunshine on leith by the proclaimers) but for the blue nile and aztec camera, i wil always love the place.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

associates, cocteau twins, simple minds(79-81)
= great

blue nile
= good

others =
venereal slink,
rootinhootin craphorns,
heedrum hodrum fowky weddingdreck,
bumptious rumblies,
fopjangle croonpish

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Altered Images < /thread>

― David Merryweather (DavidM), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 17:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Was "Hoots Mon" a Scottish record?

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 17:36 (twenty-one years ago)

travis are a guilty pleasure for me. i don't understand how i can like a band that make such boring music.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

i'll third (or maybe fourth, by this point) the Mary Chain. DAMMIT.

also, i wouldn't be me if i didn't raise up Bis for consideration.

and second the Delgados, and maybe even raise you Urusei Yatsura. ;)

― janni (janni), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 18:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Further points still need to be awarded to Scotland for:

Incredible String Band
Josef K
Momus
Fire Engines
The Pastels
Shop Assistants

― Nag! Nag! Nag! (Nag! Nag! Nag!), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 18:42 (twenty-one years ago)

England has produced more terrible music than Scotland (purely statistically if nothing else)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 18:43 (twenty-one years ago)

America has produced more terrible music than...well, pretty much everybody.
And whats worse is that a crummy UK act will quickly fade from view. US acts continue to play and play and play and never go away.
Bon Jovi, for instance.

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Why is Ireland so musically inept is a much better question.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 18:59 (twenty-one years ago)

answer:cos the entire country is conservative as hell

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 19:00 (twenty-one years ago)

B-but - you're totally radical.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 19:08 (twenty-one years ago)

ill add the stockholm monsters to manchester's roster, which officially puts them over the top (unless someone can photoshop a pic of Miles wearing a kilt and bagpipin' it)
PS-this is an earnest request for said picture. i want to see it and i want to see it now.
PPS-isnt a bagpipe what bitch's brew was missing all along?

― Felcher (Felcher), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 19:09 (twenty-one years ago)

"B-but - you're totally radical."
as is enya

― Felcher (Felcher), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Why is Ireland so musically inept is a much better question.
I love Irish music.
< OFFTOPIC="ON">
What I don't get is why David Hasslehoff gets much love in Germany when he so obviously sucks more as a musician than he ever did as an actor.
< OFFTOPIC="OFF">

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 19:15 (twenty-one years ago)

the KLF were Bill Drummond and Jimmy Caughty of course, both Scots. Can they be counted?

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

It's funny you should ask that, Colin

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Not to start a post with "ummmm," but... Ummmmm. TRASHCAN SINATRAS???

― schwantz, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 20:48 (twenty-one years ago)

the mighty rufus harley

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/gallery/chovan/rufusharley.jpg

― joni, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Ummmm ...go to the other thread linked to above, go up a bit, there's a bit of love there....can't be posting the same stuff to two threads (well, I could but I can't be arsed)

(x-post)

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 20:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Eurythmics? David Byrne left scotland when he was about 3 so i dont think he counts unless you count Rod Stewart as he was born in london but has a scottish father.

What about Hue & Cry? Silencers?. River Detectives? Slide? Average White Band? Del Amitri? Bay City Rollers? The Almighty? Gun? Sheena Easton? Idlewild?

Not exactly a great line up.
Alex Harvey however ruled.
Oh and do Ac/DC count? Angus & Malcolm Young lived here til their teens and Bon Scott lived in Scotland til he was 12.
If they count then Scotland beats Manchester hands down!

― Pablo, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 21:18 (twenty-one years ago)

The Daily record also claims Brian Molko and the bassist from The Darkness are scottish because of where they grew up/went to school,although not actually born here.

― Pablo, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree with the guy (a good deal) above. Scotland has produced nothing to compare with Manchester's Elbow, Paris Angels and Northside.

― Keith Watson (kmw), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 21:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Could there ever be a Scottish MC Tunes?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 21:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Precisely my point Nick. His tongue is a stun-gun. No-one I know in Scotland sports this ability, it must be something in the water in Manchester.

― Keith Watson (kmw), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

...This thread was started before the Rangers - ManU game?
George Richardson, were the heck're you from? ;)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I was born in Manchester...
But I'm a City fan (not that i'm really into football much)

― George, Wednesday, 22 October 2003 22:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, Pablo, AC/DC are expat Scots (Young brothers and Bon).

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 22:56 (twenty-one years ago)

So - AC/DC redeems Scotland, surely?

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 23:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Also - why has Orkney got such an appalling musical record?

And FWIW, there are 4m people in Scotland in an area the size of England as opposed to 2m people in Manchester in an area the size of, er, Manchester.

― Jacob (Jacob), Thursday, 23 October 2003 03:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Plus there's lots of really good bagpipe music, so what's your problem?

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Thursday, 23 October 2003 03:59 (twenty-one years ago)

it seems to me that Wales (its other and plentiful charms notwithstanding) is the part of the most musically inept portion of the UK.

i mean, tom jones and shirley bassey?

― Little Big Macher (llamasfur), Thursday, 23 October 2003 04:06 (twenty-one years ago)

You forgot Test Department.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Thursday, 23 October 2003 04:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Goldie Lookin Chain exist to redeem Wales for having cursed us with Catatonia and the Manics tho...

― Jacob (Jacob), Thursday, 23 October 2003 05:00 (twenty-one years ago)

prolapse, the wake, the orchids. just think how great mccarthy would have been if the prolapse guy had done their vocals, too. come on prolapse, let's have an lp of mccarthy covers.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Thursday, 23 October 2003 05:20 (twenty-one years ago)

you dudes ned to see some highland fling, its the shit.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Thursday, 23 October 2003 06:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree with those such as Dadaismus that say Scotland hasn't produced anything worthwhile.

It's far from the first time i've ever been misquoted and I imagine it won't be the last - I never said "Scotland hasn't produced anything worthwhile", how on earth could I when Scotland produced the Increidble String Band, Bert Jansch and Alex Harvey (to name but three)? I said I'd struggle to find 30 great albums produced by Scottish artists - and I stand by that.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 23 October 2003 08:36 (twenty-one years ago)

...This thread was started before the Rangers - ManU game?
George Richardson, were the heck're you from? ;)

Well most of England wanted Rangers to win while most of Scotland wanted Man Utd to win - figure that one out

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 23 October 2003 08:46 (twenty-one years ago)

scotland : ivor cutler
manchester : frank sidebottom

― joni, Thursday, 23 October 2003 10:14 (twenty-one years ago)

And FWIW, there are 4m people in Scotland in an area the size of England as opposed to 2m people in Manchester in an area the size of, er, Manchester.

In what mentalist counting system are there 2 million people in Manchester? 'Greater Manchester' yes, but that is a statistical region that goes way way beyond Manchester, to include towns like Bolton and even Wigan. I doubt you'd get many people from Wigan agreeing that they came from Manchester. And then The Verve would be from Manchester and all would be ruin.

The population of Scotland is almost 5 million, too.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 23 October 2003 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

The Scottish Executive should totally proclaim a 'Greater Scotland' that includes Carlisle, Corby, Newfoundland and Dunedin.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 23 October 2003 15:58 (twenty-one years ago)

These Scotch will try and claim anyone!!! As for The Associates, whiny voice and shite. I thought it was one of me mates winding me up the first time I heard that. Northside are musical geniuses (or maybe it's because two of them are my mates that they made the list, you decide). Also, we're not having The Charlatans, they're from Northwich or Crewe or somewhere like that, and The Inspiral Carpets are Pie Heads from Oldham. These joskins might WANT to be from God's City, but they can just stay in The Boonies and deal with it.
Also Mr N, why should only whiskey be said in respect of Scotch? The Irish invented it then you claimed it for yourselves and spelt it wrong, as did you also steal the bagpipes from the Irish.
Does this mean that there is no such thing as Scotch Corner? Or Scotch Tape?
It does make me piss my sides how much this winds up the skirt wearers on my frequent trips to the outpost of civilisation.
Here's what Dictionary.com have to say on it:
Scotch ( P ) Pronunciation Key (skch)
n.
(used with a pl. verb) The people of Scotland.
Scots English.
Scotch whisky.

While I'm at it: Cath carroll and Miaow, Railway Children, Easterhouse, Yargo.

Travis? Bwahahahaha

― Sundance, Thursday, 23 October 2003 17:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Northside are musical geniuses (or maybe it's because two of them are my mates that they made the list, you decide).

namedropping Northside?!?!
ilx, you never fail to amuse me

― joni, Thursday, 23 October 2003 17:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Also Mr N, why should only whiskey be said in respect of Scotch? The Irish invented it then you claimed it for yourselves and spelt it wrong, as did you also steal the bagpipes from the Irish.

You misunderstand. I said 'Scotch' should be used only in connection with 'whisky', not the other way around. 'Scotch' is a word Americans seem to like using in place of 'Scottish'.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 23 October 2003 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Sundance = Robert Henderson

oh, and weren't the Railway Children from Wigan, anyway? ha, that's further from Manchester than Oldham is!

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Thursday, 23 October 2003 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

If you like indie music then there is lots of great music from Scotland.

If you don't like indie music THEN YOU ARE A FULE.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 23 October 2003 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

As for The Associates, whiny voice and shite.

You are damned to the netherworld and not invited to return.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 23 October 2003 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

If you like indie music then there is lots of great music from Scotland.
If you don't like indie music THEN YOU ARE A FULE.

he!he!-HA!-HA!

*shakes, rattles,rocks, rolls, holds stomach with both hands*
(which feels such a good thing)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 23 October 2003 22:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Also Mr N, why should only whiskey be said in respect of Scotch? The Irish invented it then you claimed it for yourselves and spelt it wrong, as did you also steal the bagpipes from the Irish.

Well the "Scots" originally came from Ireland and displaced the native inhabitants of "Scotland", so when you go far enough back it's pretty debatable what constitutes "Scottish" and what constitutes "Irish". Did the "Irish" invent whisky? News to me but I know one thing the "Scots" certainly perfected it. As for bagpipes, they've been played all over the world in many different nations and in many different cultures - they are not exclusively the invention of either the Irish or the Scots. Go and read some books instead of spending all day on the internet, you numpty (Scottish word)

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 24 October 2003 09:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Go and read some books instead of spending all day on the internet

!!!!!! pot meet kettle!!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 24 October 2003 10:32 (twenty-one years ago)

And you Pash

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 24 October 2003 10:39 (twenty-one years ago)

ha! the difference is, i don't care anymore!!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 24 October 2003 10:41 (twenty-one years ago)

And I do, Pash, old chum?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 24 October 2003 10:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Let's scotch this right here.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 24 October 2003 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)

...And then they all scotchzed up. Huzzah.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 24 October 2003 15:04 (twenty-one years ago)

ahh, such jockularity....

― joni, Friday, 24 October 2003 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Unknown Artist - The Power of Scotland (BASS GENERATOR RECORDS)

!!!!!!

this does not = inept.

― ambrose (ambrose), Monday, 27 October 2003 10:19 (twenty-one years ago)

hahaha. I own that record too.

It be grate.

― Jacob (Jacob), Monday, 27 October 2003 11:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Scotland OWNS corny happy hardcore. The nation that gave us The Time Frequency, QFX, Q-Tex, Tom Wilson, Chill FM, Davey Forbes and the mighty Ultra-Sonic...

― Jacob (Jacob), Monday, 27 October 2003 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

same time next year then?

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 27 October 2003 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

Revive!

― Robbie j, Friday, 8 April 2005 14:43 (twenty years ago)

this is a silly thread.

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 8 April 2005 14:45 (twenty years ago)

the word "vaselines" does not appear anywhere on this page. therefore:

lock thread. lock ILM. lock europe. lock world.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Saturday, 9 April 2005 00:04 (twenty years ago)

I shall now again insist that This Is the Story by The Proclaimers is a great, great album.

― OleM (OleM), Saturday, 9 April 2005 00:45 (twenty years ago)

Not sure if their name appears here -- and it would invariably have been accompanied by many a pejorative if so -- but I was listening to this at full blast earlier today, and it verily rocks, however silly....

http://home.hccnet.nl/michiels.gitaarparadijs/exploited.jpg

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 April 2005 01:44 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

Might as well bump this thread to go along with the others.
Dadaismus never did name 30 scottish albums.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:32 (eighteen years ago)

What a stupid thread.

― zeus (zeus), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:23 (eighteen years ago)

Well it is ILM. But it did give people an excuse to name all the shitty manchester bands like Northside.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:25 (eighteen years ago)

and Oceansize, eh BL-P? ;-)

― Obvious Ninja (Haberdager), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:28 (eighteen years ago)

Well that must be in Scotlands favour :P

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:30 (eighteen years ago)

But jimnaseum told me last night that they were a direct rip-off of Mogwai :p :-D

― Obvious Ninja (Haberdager), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:32 (eighteen years ago)

Northside or Oceansize? ;)

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:35 (eighteen years ago)

Even more pertinently,

another scottish artist: One Dove

-- DJ Martian (altmartinu...), October 21st, 2003.

One Dove or Doves?

― Obvious Ninja (Haberdager), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:40 (eighteen years ago)

Dadaismus never did name 30 scottish albums.

Let me think about it. Three best Scottish bands:

The Associates (Dundee)
Sensational Alex Harvey Band (Glasgow)
Incredible String Band (Edinburgh)

They only thing they have in common is that they're all a bit bonkers

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:23 (eighteen years ago)

Not a fan of Nazareth or AWB then? ;)

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:27 (eighteen years ago)

AWB are fine. Nazareth are the second best band to come from Dunfermline... maybe

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:30 (eighteen years ago)

If only Simple Minds had known when to stop, there would have been no contest.

Actually, as before, all this is just a preable for the Champion's League isn't it? -Sorry, only just worked that one out.

― lexurian (lexurian), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:32 (eighteen years ago)

How many Manchester bands do you like dadaismus?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:33 (eighteen years ago)

Manchester bands >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scottish bands

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:39 (eighteen years ago)

any dead elephant's dick >>>> tony w's + mark e. s's + ian.c's

― tiit (tiit), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 15:38 (eighteen years ago)

(nothing personal!)

(and not that, otoh, i, er, associate sc'land with dead elephant's in particular)

― tiit (tiit), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 15:40 (eighteen years ago)

"Was "Hoots Mon" a Scottish record?"

After 3 years this question can now be answered: No.

Lord Rockingham's XI were the house band on "Oh Boy". Bandleader Harry Robinson (who does the vocal part) was Scottish but the rest were from all over. The two most famous people in this band were Benny Green (Saxaphonist from Leeds) and Cherry Wainer (organist from South Africa, I think).

― everything (everything), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 16:26 (eighteen years ago)

I really hate that record.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 21:07 (eighteen years ago)

Do you boycott Maynard's Wine Gums because of it?

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 21:09 (eighteen years ago)

Scottish bands >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manchester bands

There, think I argued my case pretty cogently.

― lexurian (lexurian), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 21:22 (eighteen years ago)

Damn right, Jim. Thats why i hate that song.
x-post

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 21:37 (eighteen years ago)

Anyone know when the edwyn collins album is due out? I definitely read somewhere it was completed. Things have been rather quiet on news about him lately. I hope he can make a full recovery.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 22:11 (eighteen years ago)

BAY cITY ROLLERZ YOU R AWL GAYTARDED

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 07:24 (eighteen years ago)

OTM to whoever said Scotland has teh good indie, cuz Chemikal Underground has been cranking out some good weird shit this year, like the most recent Aereogramme (still not as much an intriguing / unholy emo / metal / Arab Strap hybrid as their first, but a significant improvement over _Sleep and Release_). Also, Scotland has bequeathed unto us the mighty SNOWBLOOD, who take Mogwai out of the sleepytime loud-soft coffeetable realm and turn it into honest to god blackened doom.

And how soon we forget the KLF. "It's Grim Up North", indeed.

― ozymandias G desiderata (othiym23), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 08:17 (eighteen years ago)

The KLF are Scottish? Bollocks. So are Cream in that case.

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 08:26 (eighteen years ago)

And AC/DC.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 08:28 (eighteen years ago)

And Talking Heads

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 08:29 (eighteen years ago)

and Colin Hay from Men At Work, also Jimmy Barnes!

― JohnFoxxsJuno (JohnFoxxsJuno), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 08:36 (eighteen years ago)

and Rod Stewart still aint. (unless it means we can say the Faces,in which case he is.)

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 09:15 (eighteen years ago)

Technically, Bill Drummond is South African, but technically, so is Dave Matthews. Technically.

Listen to any of those early JAMMS singles and tell me that dude isn't Scottish. I dare you.

― ozymandias G desiderata (othiym23), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 09:25 (eighteen years ago)

Snowblood backed.

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 09:26 (eighteen years ago)

He is Scottish but so was Jack Bruce and nobody ever called Cream a Scottish band (xpost)

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 09:27 (eighteen years ago)

OK, I get it, even if I think the JAMMs / KLF / K Foundation schtick would have been a lot less hilarious without Drummond's distinctive, buffoonish burr. Or Extreme Noise Terror. But mostly his accent. BBC standard pronunciation it ain't.

― ozymandias G desiderata (othiym23), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 09:41 (eighteen years ago)

Nobody mentioned Win!

Uh! Tears baby :(

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 09:44 (eighteen years ago)

OK, I get it, even if I think the JAMMs / KLF / K Foundation schtick would have been a lot less hilarious without Drummond's distinctive, buffoonish burr.

So KLF were really just an updated Lord Rockingham's XI?

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 09:54 (eighteen years ago)

The KLF enfolded worlds within themselves, my friend. Worlds.

― ozymandias G desiderata (othiym23), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 15:18 (eighteen years ago)

did everybody forget that lung leg and the yummy fur ever existed?

― Godfrzej Ljang (godfrzej), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 23:03 (eighteen years ago)

did anyone know they existed?

― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 23:14 (eighteen years ago)

Aw, the Yummy Fur were great.

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 7 September 2006 15:44 (eighteen years ago)

and, uh, yeah, Life Without Buildings?

― barefoot manthing (Garrett Martin), Thursday, 7 September 2006 18:39 (eighteen years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002KZ9.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Now lock thread!!

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 8 September 2006 00:21 (eighteen years ago)

Other cool bands from Scotland: Dog Faced Hermans, Stretcheads, Dawson, Badgewearer, etc.

― Pom (pom), Friday, 8 September 2006 02:30 (eighteen years ago)

sensational alex harvey band are so bonkers it's quite delightful.

i love the fuck out of arab strap too.

― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 8 September 2006 16:57 (eighteen years ago)

Bizarrely enough, no-one in the three years of this thread's existence has actually tried to answer the question; 'why?' It's all just I agree or disagree. Although, being Glaswegian, I totally love Scottish music and would argue Scotland has a rich musical heritage, and further is experiencing something of a mini-epoch currently, I would agree that you might have expected more. The reasons for this are to some extent pinpointed in The Proclaimers' Letter from America, namely the history of economic emigration, that has robbed Scotland of some of its finest talent. AC/DC might indeed have been a Scottish band for example, if a more favourable financial (and meterological) climate had persuaded the Young and Scott families not to leave. There are numerous other examples.

Life, for the vast majority of Scots has up until very recently been a pretty hard affair, with fewer opportunities than in the richer South. If Andrew Carnegie and others had been able to make their fortunes locally things might have been very different.

Not dependent on financial circumstances, folk music has of course always flourished, apart from when banned by the English following the Jacobite rising. Even then, however the 'mouth music' of the highlands and islands - a vocal immitation of the banned bagpipe is one of the most fascinating forms of the genre.

More recently, and I'm thinking primarily of the Seventies and early Eighties here, the lack of opportunities tended to mean that local bands had shorter careers than comparable bands in Manchester or London. Glasgow famously had practically no music venues during this time - as Reynolds says - due to bizarre local licensing laws. So often young talent was faced with the start choice of either leaving or giving up. I quote a paper by John Williamson on the Scottish music industry:

'As in other areas, punk rock changed things significantly and it also served to
highlight the anomalies in licensing laws which have bedevilled the
development of live music in Scotland. For example, Glasgow City Council
banned punk rock gigs, in an atmosphere of hysteria stoked by the Evening
Times newspaper (“The Ramones in Teenage Glue Death Outrage” ran its
headline of 19 August 1976) and at least one local MP tried to ban the
offending records from local record shops. The moves
against punk dislocated the Glasgow punk and post-punk scene to Paisley.
Meanwhile the Civic Government Scotland (1982) Act made it increasingly
difficult – depending on local interpretations – for public houses to charge on
the door for admission to see live entertainment. In many instances this meant
that publicans would no longer pay the fees live bands wanted.'

Hardly a conducive environment for creativity. I would argue since the late eighties, acid house et al thing have changed, but I just thought I'd give a bit of historical context.

― lexurian (lexurian), Saturday, 9 September 2006 23:07 (eighteen years ago)

sorry i cannae spell, scottish you see...

― lexurian (lexurian), Saturday, 9 September 2006 23:09 (eighteen years ago)

camera obscura did a nice cover of 'i love how you love me' on the mark radcliffe show, turquoise days has a copy.

― keyth (keyth), Saturday, 9 September 2006 23:31 (eighteen years ago)

I won't say nothing good has come out of Scotland, that's just insanity. But I would like to understand why the Scots seem to have this propensity for talking over the music, do you know what I mean? Looper, Ballboy, Arab Strap are all guilty of this. It gets old and boring to my ears, this idea of talking over the music. I think even my beloved Beta Band has done it. So aside from judging it, why do you think this has turned out to be such a tendency for the Scots?

My only complaint about the Scottish music I hear these days is it's just too low key for my tastes.

Josef K on the other hand...

― Strawberry Newton (Bimble...), Sunday, 10 September 2006 07:11 (eighteen years ago)

Despite my Beta Band love, though, I still say Donovan and Cocteau Twins are the very best Scotland has ever produced. Bless them.

― I am not Ted Nugent (Bimble...), Sunday, 10 September 2006 09:46 (eighteen years ago)

Did Wideboys featuring Dennis G come from Scotland?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 10 September 2006 10:45 (eighteen years ago)

Does anyone really think nothing good musically has ever come out of Scotland?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Sunday, 10 September 2006 14:29 (eighteen years ago)

Midge Ure is Scottish. Few will agree, but Ultravox had some great moments with him.

― Kent Burt (lingereffect), Sunday, 10 September 2006 16:39 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, Viennapaws.

― struttin' with some barbecue (jimnaseum), Sunday, 10 September 2006 16:42 (eighteen years ago)

Ultravox definitely had several great moments with Midge Ure. Not only "Vienna" (the album, and the single in particular), but particularly also "Quartet" was a great album.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 10 September 2006 21:15 (eighteen years ago)

Hmmm:

http://www.bignoisebook.com/

― lexurian (lexurian), Monday, 11 September 2006 12:10 (eighteen years ago)

All I wanted
I have now got
if misery's number one
then I'm not
'cos when I'm with you
I feel it will never stop
I feel like I'm listening to
Scottish pop
anticipation, is worth the wait
I sneak a look at you
and you look great
you think you've caught me
and it's a fair cop
I feel like I'm listening to
Scottish pop
I just want you to know
that whatever happens
in the future
that right at this moment
I'm very happy
and very much
in love with you
the secret goldfish
edwyn c
nectarine no. 9
bobby g
if you think this is uncool
well that's fine by me
stephen pastel
raymond mcginley
adventures in stereo
emma p emma p
stuart murdoch
douglas t douglas t
you can call me
a plagiaristic English fop
but when I'm with you
I feel like I'm listening to
Scottish pop
I love Scottish popI love Scottish popI love Scottish popI love Scottish popI love Scottish popI love Scottish popI love Scottish popI love Scottish pop

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 11 September 2006 12:13 (eighteen years ago)

six months pass...

Ding Dong Dollar is pretty neat! I swiped it from my dad's collection a couple of years ago. Anti-Polaris folk songs. As a Canadian I can barely understand the accents though.

Also, my dad listened to the Proclaimers a lot-- they're not that bad (aside from THAT song)?

― Will M., Wednesday, 28 March 2007 18:25 (eighteen years ago)

Those Broadside albums look cool. But I just ordered a box set of something like eleven Matt McGinn albums so I think I'll leave it for now.

― everything, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 18:28 (eighteen years ago)

I still haven't heard that band from Dundee yet "The View". Everyone else says they're shite though. So they will probably be huge.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

They are shite, and I thought they were already huge.

― everything, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 18:36 (eighteen years ago)

Soon, filling stadiums with shite, The View.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Wednesday, 28 March 2007 18:54 (eighteen years ago)

I heard a song this morning by them. SHITE!

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 29 March 2007 11:07 (eighteen years ago)

On the other hand, Scotland vs Ireland. Scotland would win by a landslide.

― underpants of the gods, Thursday, 29 March 2007 11:33 (eighteen years ago)

The existence of the Fratellis makes me want to move to England.

― byebyepride, Thursday, 29 March 2007 12:55 (eighteen years ago)

That and the fact that I haven't seen the sun for three days.

― byebyepride, Thursday, 29 March 2007 12:55 (eighteen years ago)

The Daily Record is pish too ;)

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 29 March 2007 13:20 (eighteen years ago)

let us not forget one of the best detroit techno DJs around: mr. vince watson. guy is masterful.

― the table is the table, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:02 (eighteen years ago)

Scotland, of course is not 10X the size of Greater Manchester, which is where most "Manchester" bands come from

― Tom D., Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:21 (eighteen years ago)

Nobody here seems to like them at all (especially, strangely, old Yummy Fur fans), but I have gotten nothing but fun and great times out of seeing/listening to 1990s.

― Ben Boyerrr, Thursday, 29 March 2007 14:43 (eighteen years ago)

I'd love to see everything by the Shop Assistants reissued as a double-disc.

― Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 29 March 2007 15:32 (eighteen years ago)

Please make sure to let me know if the Shop Assistants are getting reissued again, so I can quickly flog my Overground CD on Ebay before it comes out. Ta.

― Colonel Poo, Thursday, 29 March 2007 15:56 (eighteen years ago)

Prick Decay are the most musically inept Scots band!

― gnarly sceptre, Thursday, 29 March 2007 16:15 (eighteen years ago)

Nobody here seems to like them at all (especially, strangely, old Yummy Fur fans), but I have gotten nothing but fun and great times out of seeing/listening to 1990s.

I like 1990s! (and I liked the Yummy Fur as well, as my only contribution to this thread other than pointing people to other threads will attest to)

― ailsa, Thursday, 29 March 2007 20:11 (eighteen years ago)

RIP Cha Burns

― onimo, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:40 (eighteen years ago)

I've only heard that "Wasted Little DJs" song by the View, and it's very good. Rest of their stuff could still be shite, though...

― Lostandfound, Friday, 30 March 2007 23:45 (eighteen years ago)

Jamie Mc.Memeny, I am not sure I can spell it..He is the founder of the excellent Breton band "Kornog"..and is a great music and arranger, hailing from Scotland, though he relocated in France.

― marissa, Friday, 30 March 2007 23:47 (eighteen years ago)

The existence of the Fratellis makes me want to move to England.

How can you say that? The spirit of Toploader is in their bones.

― Keith, Saturday, 31 March 2007 00:53 (eighteen years ago)

On the other hand, Scotland vs Ireland. Scotland would win by a landslide.

I don't think that this is true.

― Keith, Saturday, 31 March 2007 01:01 (eighteen years ago)

How can you say that? The spirit of Toploader is in their bones.

I was fine with them until the cup final last weekend, and the point at which they seemed to be a Hibs anthem. Also if the spirit of Toploader is boning Gail Porter, where does that leave the Fratellis?

― byebyepride, Saturday, 31 March 2007 01:15 (eighteen years ago)

Aztec Camera, Primal Scream, Blue Nile, Teenage Fanclub, Travis, Simple Minds, Orange Juice, Danny Wilson, Shamen, Big Country.

Surely Scotland has given the world its share of great music. Even if I (like most non-Scots) have never understood the deal about The Proclaimers.

― Geir Hongro, Saturday, 31 March 2007 01:26 (eighteen years ago)

Most people i find like 2 proclaimers songs. Probably because they are great songs. I have never heard anything else mind you.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Saturday, 31 March 2007 01:30 (eighteen years ago)

Even if I (like most non-Scots) have never understood the deal about The Proclaimers.

In my experience, non-Scots are more likely to like the Proclaimers than Scots are!

― Tom D., Saturday, 31 March 2007 10:57 (eighteen years ago)

I like The Proclaimers quite a lot. 'This is the Story' is a fantastic album.

― Sandy Blair, Saturday, 31 March 2007 18:00 (eighteen years ago)

The Proclaimers are fucking brilliant. Sunshine on Leith is also a fantastic album (I absolutely adore This Is The Story). I may sometimes believe them to be the most misunderstood band ever.

― ailsa, Saturday, 31 March 2007 22:51 (eighteen years ago)

I guess my problem with Proclaimers is, well... They give me this kind of "Aaaaaangus rrrrreeeeeeds pooooetrrrrreeeeeeee". I mean, there's nothing wrong with singing with obvious accents (Madness were brilliant at it), but with The Proclaimers it became so obvious there is a novelty effect which I am never able to get beyond)

― Geir Hongro, Sunday, 1 April 2007 00:25 (eighteen years ago)

Ailsa speaks the truth. Also, they write quite brilliant, unique lyrics on occasion. That Sunshine on Leith album's full of them.a

― everything, Sunday, 1 April 2007 00:53 (eighteen years ago)

didn't orange juice create indie pop, both musically and aesthically/fashionwise?

more groundbreaking than anything that's come from manchester...

― Lovelace, Sunday, 1 April 2007 14:40 (eighteen years ago)

I don't think the Proclaimers' accents are for novelty effect. How's it any more of a novelty than Billy Bragg? It's just cos people are used to cockney accents in pop, whereas Scots bands have tended to go for a more neutral voice, or put on a yankee twang. I think that after Alex Harvey and Arab Strap, they're one of the best examples of pop in a Scots accent. They have that great sibling telepathy with the harmonies and vocal arrangements.

Post Sons & Daughers (and Artic Monkeys and Streets) the regional accents trend has come back. It doesn't always work though as people are trying TOO hard to sound authentic. When I hear the likes of Pop-Up or Wake The President, with their over-enunciated Lanarkshire phrasing, I think, nobody speaks like that! Maybe that's just the way they sing but to me it sounds a bit forced, a bit exadjuray-TAHT (complete with glottal stop).

On behalf of Scotland I'd like to apologise for the Fratellis, Paulo Nutini, and Alan McGee's new favourites The Hedrons (piss poor Runaways rip off with none of the wit, sass or tunes) and GlasVegas (Biff from Back To The Future fronting a lumpen travesty of the Clash doing rckabilly). Fortunately, the new Future Pilot AKA album and forthcoming albums from the Pastels, Royal We, BMX Bandits among others, should redress the balance somewhat...

― Stew, Sunday, 1 April 2007 18:45 (eighteen years ago)

oh, scotland

― RJG, Sunday, 1 April 2007 18:54 (eighteen years ago)

oh,Scotlandpaws?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Sunday, 1 April 2007 20:04 (eighteen years ago)

I object to the Proclaimers to the point that I will carry picket signs to avoid them, but all the same "nothing good has ever come out of Scotland?" give me a break. Check that guy Mike Scott...check Aztec Camera. Check that thing that is supposed to be ex-Beta Band called Aliens which I haven't heard yet and may prove to be crap, but really in the end just take three Josef K CD's home with you and never question Scotland's place again. Shame on you.

― Bimble, Sunday, 1 April 2007 20:44 (eighteen years ago)

shame on you, actually

― RJG, Sunday, 1 April 2007 20:51 (eighteen years ago)

What Scottish bands do you like RJG?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Sunday, 1 April 2007 20:56 (eighteen years ago)

Not the first time I've differed with you RJG. We ought to agree to disagree at this point.

― Bimble, Sunday, 1 April 2007 21:00 (eighteen years ago)

RIP Cha Burns

-- onimo, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:40 (2 days ago)

I managed to miss this. Shit. RIP. Haven't listened to them for probably at least a decade, but the Silencers still hold a special place in my heart from years ago.

― ailsa, Sunday, 1 April 2007 21:13 (eighteen years ago)

the hermit crabs

― RJG, Sunday, 1 April 2007 21:20 (eighteen years ago)

alex neilson is the best scottish performer i've seen since i've been up here, just a phenomenal drummer, esp. in collab w/ richard youngs

opaque, on the same bill at the 13th note, were pretty gd too i thought - heavy early swans vibe

the proclaimers suck regardless of accent or aspiration

― Ward Fowler, Sunday, 1 April 2007 21:27 (eighteen years ago)

alex neilson

Alas he's English.

― jim, Sunday, 1 April 2007 21:40 (eighteen years ago)

oh dear

― Ward Fowler, Sunday, 1 April 2007 21:45 (eighteen years ago)

So is Rod Stewart. But he gets claimed. (Yet AC/DC don't, and 3 of them were born here)

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Sunday, 1 April 2007 22:10 (eighteen years ago)

Rod has the Scottish parents going on though. If you can just claim someone because they live somewhere we'd also have Corsano though and hence we would own the world inna free improv drum stylee.

― jim, Sunday, 1 April 2007 22:16 (eighteen years ago)

I think Rod Stewart does more of the claiming that anyone else.

― ailsa, Sunday, 1 April 2007 22:27 (eighteen years ago)

you could add a couple of extra words in there if it helps to make sense. I recommend an "of" and a "than".

― ailsa, Sunday, 1 April 2007 22:31 (eighteen years ago)

x-post
But then we would have Snow Patrol. NO THANKS!

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Sunday, 1 April 2007 22:36 (eighteen years ago)

So who is going to the Inverclyde Festival? To see The Bluetones headlining haha.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Sunday, 1 April 2007 22:38 (eighteen years ago)

I mean how could anybody listen to Life Without Buildings "Love Trinity" and not bow before them?

Get OUT OF HERE you HIPSTERS! Scotland never produced anything good!??? The nerve! Go suck your Bruce Springsteen records up in a vacuum cleaner. The shame!

Life Without Buildings have a new live album out this year.

― Bimble, Sunday, 1 April 2007 23:00 (eighteen years ago)

Belle and Sebastian are THE indie love ballad band.

― wesley useche, Monday, 2 April 2007 00:55 (eighteen years ago)

WAHT?

― ailsa, Monday, 2 April 2007 01:25 (eighteen years ago)

Jack Bruce, if only for his work on "Escalator Over the Hill" - he sings with a Scottish accent too!

― Tom D., Monday, 2 April 2007 11:56 (eighteen years ago)

The Proclaimers are marvellous in my world - or were - I've just heard about that Comic Relief monstrosity. Managed to avoid actually listening to it so far, but is it as bad as it sounds? Why is it obligatory to release such shite for Comic Relief? Peter Kay, just fuck off.

And if this is a Scotland vs. Manchester thread, then Scotland, by a mile. But Manchester>Birmingham musically, sadly.

― hobart paving, Monday, 2 April 2007 12:22 (eighteen years ago)

Liverpool > Manchester > London > Scotland > Wales > Birmingham

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 2 April 2007 12:38 (eighteen years ago)

Wales before Birmingham? Apart from John Cale, what is there?

― Tom D., Monday, 2 April 2007 12:40 (eighteen years ago)

And you don't even like John Cale I bet!

― Tom D., Monday, 2 April 2007 12:41 (eighteen years ago)

Super Furry Animals, Gorky's Zygotic Mynci, The Alarm, Manics

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 2 April 2007 12:41 (eighteen years ago)

Ok, I'll give you Gorkys were good... for a coupla years

― Tom D., Monday, 2 April 2007 12:42 (eighteen years ago)

Whereas Birmingham = Duran Duran and everything Jeff Lynne has been involved with. And that's it, largely...

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 2 April 2007 12:42 (eighteen years ago)

Liverpool? Really? Interesting choice. Obviously, there's Cast and I Am Kloot, but who else?

This is where I'd love to get all bolshy and defend Birmingham, but I fear it may be something of a lost cause.

Without really thinking about it too much:

JAPAN!>London>Scotland>Liverpool>Manchester>Wales>Wolverhampton>Birmingham

I feel so disloyal.

― hobart paving, Monday, 2 April 2007 12:45 (eighteen years ago)

Actually, having read your post about the Manics, put Wales below Birmingham.

― hobart paving, Monday, 2 April 2007 12:46 (eighteen years ago)

Obviously, there's Cast and I Am Kloot, but who else?

The Beatles, for starters.......

Btw. Birmingham > Southern USA in general....

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 2 April 2007 12:48 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, THEM. I think I've heard of them but I haven't heard much of their stuff...

[Cast and I Am Kloot would have put Liverpool at the bottom of any list, surely?]

This is where I find out the drummer from I Am Kloot is on ILX.

― hobart paving, Monday, 2 April 2007 13:46 (eighteen years ago)

For Birmingham how can you forget SABBATH!!!

More good Welsh music: Meic Stevens and anything on the Welsh Rarebeat Comp.

― Stew, Monday, 2 April 2007 18:23 (eighteen years ago)

Well I don't see the point of these threads at all. Birmingham...Liverpool...Scotland...it doesn't matter, Manchester takes all and there's really no point trying to compete. You laugh at my Madchester arse but wait until you hear the obscure post punk likes of Spherical Objects and Gods Gift. Then tell me Manchester doesn't have it for the win. Oasis notwithstanding.

But then, things like the Stooges, Monks & Can are better than anything the UK has ever produced, so what are you going to do?

― Bimble, Monday, 2 April 2007 18:40 (eighteen years ago)

Post Sons & Daughers (and Artic Monkeys and Streets) the regional accents trend has come back. It doesn't always work though as people are trying TOO hard to sound authentic. When I hear the likes of Pop-Up or Wake The President, with their over-enunciated Lanarkshire phrasing, I think, nobody speaks like that! Maybe that's just the way they sing but to me it sounds a bit forced, a bit exadjuray-TAHT (complete with glottal stop).

what irritates me many times more than this is The View's ridiculously affected speaking voices. I've lived in Dundee for three years and I can hardly understand a word they say, and have never heard anyone speak like them! Another nice part in the grand facade of being teenage (well, one of them...) rapscallions (mopeds on bars? Flooding hotels? THE HORROR!), just out of school (four years ago...) and having a good time, showing a real slice of gritty working class youth the likes of which only the Conor McNicholases of the world, with their bizarre middle-class fetishisation of the working classes, would fall for.

― Merdeyeux, Monday, 2 April 2007 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

Manchester takes all and there's really no point trying to compete.

Bimble OTM. I mean, I suppose you were speaking of football, right? ;)

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 2 April 2007 22:21 (eighteen years ago)

Many great & cool & influential bands from Manchester, for sure: I don't subscribe to the whole Manc canon (never was mad about the Roses, Joy Division or New Order, f'rinstance), but I've got records by the Smiths, the Happy Mondays, Oasis, Black Grape, and I like all these a lot.

On the other hand, I'd just as soon listen to Travis or Primal Scream. Actually in a lot of ways I like these better.

But I'm from Newcastle. So... 'a Scotsman with his heed kicked in' as they say: not that this makes me partial. I just happen to like Travis & Primal Scream a lot.

What I want to know is, why hasn't Newcastle ever produced a great band? Even Sunderland seems to do better!

― Richard Graham, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 10:57 (eighteen years ago)

xxpost - Merdeyeux OTM.

It's a bit unfair of me to pick on those bands when the View are far worse culprits and are hateful on every level. I think they're going for some Scottish scamp crossed with mush mouthed Pete Doherty-sims and Liam twang thang. Ghastly.
I don't share the List, Skinny and ITM?'s Pop Up love but I don't hate em either. And like the Monkeys (who again, I don't love, but don't hate either) there's at least a bit of intelligence to their observations. To revise what I said, it's not that the two bands I mentioned necessarily exaggerate their accents but rather that certain sounds and phrasings jar in that accent. I don't have a problem with singers adopting different voices/accents/effects - but then like Bowie they're not pretending to be "authentic". I dunno, it's a weird one.

― Stew, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 13:31 (eighteen years ago)

one year passes...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7502535.stm

― Herman G. Neuname, Saturday, 12 July 2008 19:03 (seventeen years ago)

It's wonderful to see you on ILX at the same time I am, Herman. Hello! Nice link.

― Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Saturday, 12 July 2008 19:12 (seventeen years ago)

well, I am a Lanarkshire boy. It had to be done.

― Herman G. Neuname, Saturday, 12 July 2008 19:35 (seventeen years ago)

Oh and hello !

― Herman G. Neuname, Saturday, 12 July 2008 19:35 (seventeen years ago)

some others from Scotland:
Aereogramme
Lowlife
AC Acoustics
Slam
Bows
Cindytalk
Christ
Boards of Canada
Lapsus Linguae
Long Fin Killie
Under the Dome [ambient band that sound like vintage Tangerine Dream]

-- DJ Martian (djmartian),

― the pinefox, Saturday, 12 July 2008 19:41 (seventeen years ago)

I saw Baby Chaos support the wildhearts once. I cant even remember what they sounded like.
Apparently GUN have reformed but I assume its not the original line up. Hated them with a passion.

― Herman G. Neuname, Saturday, 12 July 2008 19:44 (seventeen years ago)

the hermit crabs
-- RJG, Sunday, 1 April 2007

yes, 1 April

― the pinefox, Saturday, 12 July 2008 19:45 (seventeen years ago)

I have never heard Long Fin Killie. Am I missing out?
Blue Nile just played a gig didn't they?

― Herman G. Neuname, Saturday, 12 July 2008 20:02 (seventeen years ago)

The GUN reformation was the one thing that Scotland, indeed Britain, indeed the world, needed, indeed was crying out for.

― the pinefox, Saturday, 12 July 2008 22:23 (seventeen years ago)

i wonder if it's GUN or G.U.N. since they changed their name after the Dunblane Massacre

― Herman G. Neuname, Saturday, 12 July 2008 22:24 (seventeen years ago)

The GUN reformation was the one thing that Scotland, indeed Britain, indeed the world, needed, indeed was crying out for.

pinefox otm

― Noodle Vague, Sunday, 13 July 2008 01:11 (seventeen years ago)

AC Acoustics. OMG I wonder if I still have their CD I liked a lot.

― Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Sunday, 13 July 2008 03:00 (seventeen years ago)

It's called "Understanding Music". Fucking fantastic album. Only really good thing they ever did, though, to my knowledge.

Wow...Long Fin Killie. I haven't heard them in a billion years. I wonder if they're on You Tube...

Lowlife are/were from Scotland?? I guess I didn't realize that, despite the involvement of Will Heggie. (right?)

― Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Sunday, 13 July 2008 03:02 (seventeen years ago)

Dunno them

― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 13 July 2008 15:03 (seventeen years ago)

A man has suffered 'horrific' multiple stab wounds and another has died at Scotland's biggest music festival.

― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 13 July 2008 18:45 (seventeen years ago)

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2008/07/14/horror-as-fan-is-stabbed-11-times-at-t-in-the-park-86908-20642937/

― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 14 July 2008 07:52 (seventeen years ago)

aw shit. Where's Grimly Fiendish I wonder?

― Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Monday, 14 July 2008 08:28 (seventeen years ago)

nowhere near t in the park im sure. he hates most of the bands that play there i think.

― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 14 July 2008 08:33 (seventeen years ago)

the hermit crabs
-- RJG, Sunday, 1 April 2007

haha apparently the flat i stayed in in glasgow was next door to one of that band

― electricsound, Monday, 14 July 2008 08:35 (seventeen years ago)

Any good new Scottish bands around?

― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 14 July 2008 14:49 (seventeen years ago)

aw shit. Where's Grimly Fiendish I wonder?

heh! i'm slightly concerned about the juxtaposition between this comment and "stabbing horror at T in the Park", but hey.

i was at work, subbing all the reviews as they came in. it sounds like it might have been OK this year. still never been, though.

good new scottish bands: we mentioned a couple of T Breakers but a) "good" is obviously subjective; b) i can't remember their names.

― grimly fiendish, Monday, 14 July 2008 15:29 (seventeen years ago)

"good" is obviously subjective

This is like the dirty little secret of ILM innit?

― Bimble, Monday, 14 July 2008 16:28 (seventeen years ago)

Ayrshire's (one time) best kept secret.

http://www.nyahfearties.co.uk/

― MaresNest, Monday, 14 July 2008 16:46 (seventeen years ago)

My flatmate is a Hermit Crab! :)

The circles contract...

Anyway, threads like this mean my ILX silence must end...

My favourite Scottish band of the momemnt are Tattie Toes. They're fucking amazing, unlike anyone else in Glasgow at the moment. Flamenco/gypsy/math/punk/skronk/jazz/folk shenanigans. Reference points include Gang Gang Dance, This Heat and The Ex at their most adventurous. A really wonderful band.

Wounded Knee - One man and his voice, a loop pedal, delay and very little else. Inlfuence by folk, Albert Ayler, minimalism and minimal techno. http://www.myspace.com/iamwoundedknee

You'll probably have heard of Dananananaykroyd, Errors and RememberRemember, but they're always worth mentioning. The latter two are on Rock Action, as are the mighty De Salvo, freaky metal titans, fronted by a large bald man in a butcher's apron and gimp mask who is fond of humping the monitors and doing obscene things with his tongue.
www.myspace.com/desalvoland

The ubiquitous Alex Neilson is involved in a number of musical projects. Directing Hand is freeform vocal and drum stuff with Lavinia Blackwell - hair raising and often beautiful. http://www.myspace.com/directinghand
He's also got a more "songy" outfit, Trembling Bells, who are playing London on Saturday. Features Ben Reynolds and Simon from Lucky Luke. No myspace yet, but hopefully we'll get to hear some stuff soon.
And then there's his free jazz outfit with David Keenan and others, Tight Meat. http://www.last.fm/music/Tight+Meat+Duo

Nackt Insecten - Glasgow's king of psychedelic drone.
www.myspace.com/nacktinsecten

Kylie Minoise - deranged noise aktions!
www.myspace.com/kylieminoise

So much good stuff right now! Just a shame that the stuff that's getting the big money behind it is insipid jangle pop (Attic Lights), graceless retro plod (Glasvegas) or god awful sub-Killers shite (Dykeenies).

― Stew, Monday, 14 July 2008 17:09 (seventeen years ago)

http://www.atwarwithfalsenoise.com

― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 14 July 2008 17:31 (seventeen years ago)

What he said. AWWFN's Glasgow Implodes fest earlier this year was great fun.
Black Sun are indeed Scotland's finest doom-mongers.

― Stew, Monday, 14 July 2008 17:35 (seventeen years ago)

i second the love for tattie toes. wonderful. nerea, the singer is an yma sumac for the 21st century.

― stirmonster, Monday, 14 July 2008 18:15 (seventeen years ago)

tight meat are always so much better with george lyle. shame there's not as much alex nielsen stuff on up here these days. and, yeah, desalvo are great - they and their pig snout were the best thing about hygomp last year.

i find a lot of that minoise/usurper/chocmonk stuff kinds tiresome though

new issue of beardmag due soon?

― yungblut, Monday, 14 July 2008 20:24 (seventeen years ago)

oh, and props to eye shaking kingdom!

― yungblut, Monday, 14 July 2008 20:24 (seventeen years ago)

new issue of beardmag due soon?

Yes, believe it or not! We've been pretty busy with the radio show on Subcity (it's all archived on http://beardmag.blogspot.com) this past year but we're getting our shit together. I'm going back to uni in late September, so it has to be out by then! Don't want to give away all our secrets just yet, but it'll include interviews with James Blackshaw, Tattie Toes, Team Brick, and a legendary French composer/arranger...

Agree that Tight Meat are better with Lyle. The Sonny Simmons gig was fantastic - Keenan's furious blurts and shrieks provided an effectively crude counterpoint to Simmons' more lyrical style. And the Lyle-Neilson rhythm section were on fire that night.

Eye Shaking Kingdom have been excellent the last couple of times. Nackt Insecten is playing tomorrow night at the 13th Note. I might pop along to that.

― Stew, Monday, 14 July 2008 21:19 (seventeen years ago)

the mighty De Salvo, freaky metal titans, fronted by a large bald man in a butcher's apron and gimp mask

fucking AWESOMELY GREAT BAND.

― grimly fiendish, Monday, 14 July 2008 22:27 (seventeen years ago)

(also: good to see you round these parts again, stew.)

― grimly fiendish, Monday, 14 July 2008 22:38 (seventeen years ago)

De Salvo are supporting Converge tomorrow! Fuck yeah!!! Mayhem will surely ensue.

I have been lurking, but I thought I'd mislaid my log in, so wasn't posting. Anyway, all seesm to be working again, so it's nice to be back!

― Stew, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:01 (seventeen years ago)

OH, WHAT? for fuck's sake. i go part-time at work and i still end up missing this bloody gig. shitehawks.

― grimly fiendish, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:01 (seventeen years ago)

I'll third (or whatever) the love for Tattie Toes. Glad to hear they're still on the go, saw them 2 or 3 years ago and loved them.

I like Copy Haho and Findo Gask.

― MichaelJLambert, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:39 (seventeen years ago)

I couldnt afford Harvey Milk the other night or Converge :(

― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:42 (seventeen years ago)

i quite like strawberry whiplash

― electricsound, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:42 (seventeen years ago)

Nearly 300 posts and no mention of the Exploited? :(

― Colonel Poo, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:56 (seventeen years ago)

I enjoy take a worm for a walk week.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=38051644

― jim, Monday, 14 July 2008 23:59 (seventeen years ago)

alex in nyc posted an exploited thread back in the beginning i think

― Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 00:02 (seventeen years ago)

Heh yes he did post a picture of Troops Of Tomorrow, which is their "best" album

― Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 00:10 (seventeen years ago)

has anyone seen/heard jacob from uncle john & whitelock's new band yet? no tracks up on their myspace. loved uj&w back when they were a going concern (got the dvd n everythin :D)

stereo on sun: tawfaww coverin it all up, eugene oxbow takin it all off

― yungblut, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 00:12 (seventeen years ago)

has anyone seen/heard jacob from uncle john & whitelock's new band yet?

yes. they played at a barn dance we put on the other week. they were really, really good. there's obviously still a lot of uj&w dna running through them but it's a lot more countrified and a lot darker. i can't wait to see them again.

nice to see findo gask getting a mention. they have a super 12" available from all good record shops. :-)

― stirmonster, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 00:42 (seventeen years ago)

I still haven't picked up the Findo 12", but keep meaning to.

I have to admit having played a few shows with them when they were but young lads and sounded nothing like they do now.

― MichaelJLambert, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 01:07 (seventeen years ago)

I think the premise for this thread is a bit off. A quick wikipedia check reveals Scotland to have about 5 million inhabitants and Greater Manchester to have about 2.3 million. So Scotland's only slightly more than twice Manchester's size, population-wise, which is what's important here. And density counts for something, especially back in pre-internet days. (I mean, the Sad Day We Left the Croft comp LP notwithstanding, there's never been a huge Isle of Lewis scene....)

(You can't say that Scotland's population is ten times the City of Manchester's and then go including bands not from within Manchester city limits—I mean, Joy Division were from Macclesfied, no? If you want to include such bands, you have to up the population number, right? The issue here is that Scotland has borders, whereas Greater Manchester's are less precise.)

What we're really talking about is a couple of big Manchester bands like Joy Division, New Order, The Smiths, Happy Mondays, The Fall, and maybe the Buzzcocks, that Scotland probably can't match, but the overall level of activity (and competence) probably isn't that disparate.

For what it's worth, I've got 2543 Scottish songs in iTunes, 1827 Manchester songs. Of course, 1523 of those are by The Fall....All joking aside, it's a pretty amazing output for one city. Probably could only be surpassed by London and New York (which are filled with expat Scots like David Byrne, Mark Knopfler, Annie Lennox, Sheena Easton, Shirley Manson, Jimmy Somerville, Midge Ure, and so on). Even LA would have a hard time competing, and a high percentage of its bands would be from elsewhere.

― Michael Train, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 01:37 (seventeen years ago)

FWIW, only Ian Curtis was from Macclesfield. The rest were Mancs/Salfordians, but your overall points are fair, I think.

― Lostandfound, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 01:45 (seventeen years ago)

Very true. I did what I hate others doing: focusing on Ian and playing down the vast contributions of the rest of the band. Worst offender? The movie Control, which would have Ian the tortured genius and the other guys a bunch of louts much given to fart jokes. Well, maybe they were a bunch of lads given to fart jokes, but they made other sounds too.

― Michael Train, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 02:24 (seventeen years ago)

But only a record of Ian farting on it would sell!

― Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 11:37 (seventeen years ago)

two years pass...

is there a thread of hatred for mancunian music/culture/etc

― fuck you jan stepek you kurwa (nakhchivan), Saturday, 19 February 2011 00:43 (fourteen years ago)

here

― miss pansy twist (electricsound), Saturday, 19 February 2011 01:01 (fourteen years ago)

lol

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Saturday, 19 February 2011 18:03 (fourteen years ago)

think imma have to do separate ilm/ilx/ilf threads for hatred of the different aspects of mancunian culture

― fuck you jan stepek you kurwa (nakhchivan), Saturday, 19 February 2011 18:05 (fourteen years ago)

I dont think there's an anti-manchester music thread on ILM yet 2 on scotland in the early days of ILM. I remember when both of these threads started but i think the reason no-one will say they hate Manchester on ILM is because New Order are *the* ILM band. Scotland doesn't have a band everyone can agree on (except that a lot hate primal scream)

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Saturday, 19 February 2011 18:08 (fourteen years ago)

i will be happy to support a "Tell Manchester to Fuck Off" thread

― fat balls for wild birds (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 19 February 2011 18:10 (fourteen years ago)

JESUS CHRIST...MANCHESTER...

― fuck you jan stepek you kurwa (nakhchivan), Saturday, 19 February 2011 18:10 (fourteen years ago)

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