A Rough Guide to Pop and Hip-Hop Videos That Are Goth

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Okay, so what would they be? Early suggestions from this thread:

New Kids on the Block's "The Right Stuff" (thanks to That Shirt)
Michael Jackson's "Thriller"
Rockwell's "Somebody's Watching Me"
Backstreet Boys' "Everybody"

Add to them, with explanations as desired.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Ultravox, "Dancing With Tears In My Eyes"
Rather than try to get away they decide to just lay down and die. That's pretty goth I think (or am I mixing up goth with retarded?).

― Bryan (Bryan), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I think my jaw hit the ground when I saw that guy in NKOTB wearing a Bauhaus shirt ... mind you, i didnt notice this until a few years ago since I had no idea who Bauhaus was when I was 10 years old.

Madonna's "Frozen"

― Sarah Natalie (Running from Taxes), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:37 (twenty-two years ago)

get ur freak on!

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Subject: Re: THERE ARE ANY NKOTB FANS?
Written By: Digitales on 05/28/03 at 09:29:50
Menudo was just so ubelievable cool hahah i loved them! LO(don't tell anyone) anyway.. the only thing i can tell about NKOTB is that it is a bit funny to see that video "You're got the right thing" (i guess that's the name)... the lead vocal (Jordan?the cute one) is wearing a BAUHAUS t-shirt. The guys go around hunting some chicks in a graveyard... pretty hilarious!
HAHAHA ;D
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Subject: Re: THERE ARE ANY NKOTB FANS?
Written By: wildblue on 05/28/03 at 16:05:20

You are very observer :D
I was a fanatic by Jordan and I never noticed about that Jordan's t-Shirt with the bahaus. Did they knew bahaus?
Great appointement ;)

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Do Marilyn Manson, Nine Inch Nails and Slipknot count as pop? And if they did, how boring would it be to include them? (the second question is rhetorical)

Okay, okay, lemma think... well George Michael had that cyber-punk video a while back. I don't know what the song was called though.

― Stupid (Stupid), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:38 (twenty-two years ago)

that third eye blind video where everyone is dressed in black leather. i dont remember anything about the song besides its being catchy, but if you were to put in on mute, it looked very goth.
that STP song sour girl, maybe?

― Felonious Drunk (Felcher), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Bjork 'Isobel', 'Venus as a Boy', 'Human Behaviour

― pete s, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh yeah, I should also add that screen caps are welcome and in fact encouraged.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Not so much goth as just goofy Mad Max world, but Duran Duran "Wild Boys".

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:43 (twenty-two years ago)

The Jacksons "Torture"

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, Evanescence's videos are pretty goffeeeek. They really do count as pop. Especially that balad they released - if you didn't know they thought they were goffeeeeks, you'd never guess from that.

― Stupid (Stupid), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:44 (twenty-two years ago)

(x-post to Jacksons video.. remember that really creepy part where Jermaine Jackson saw an EYE IN HIS HAND? OMG I SHIT MY PANTS!)

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:44 (twenty-two years ago)

is "California Love" goth? "Beyond The Thunderdome (We Don't Need Another Hero)"?

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Gotta have Duran Duran's "Union of the Snake" or even better, "Wild Boys". (damn, donut bitch just beat me to it).
Corey Hart "Sunglasses at Night".

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I tried to find a picture of the NKOTB video, but I started feeling gay and strange so I had to stop. Sorry.

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

again, more Mad Max/Time Machine goofiness for "dark imagery", but:

Rick Springfield's "Bop 'Til Ya Drop" has the setting of a dark sci-fi 80s movie.

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Christina Aguilera - Fighter

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

purty obvious too, but Prince's "Batdance"

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:51 (twenty-two years ago)

(and there's GOTTA be loads of early 90s gangsta videos that are gother than all of the above)

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Personally I was surprised nobody had mentioned DMX yet, surely he's done something that fills the bill.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Bone Thugs, "Tha Crossroads."

― Begs2Differ, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

cry me a river?

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

"Cry Me a River" is just creepy, but not in a particularly goth way.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

isn't peter cetera ALSO wearing a bauhaus t-shirt in some chicago video or other?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Where's the love for the gravediggaz? and i guess almost all horrorcore.. geto boyz's mind's playin tricks on me is kinda goth too..

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned -- you break my heart.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Er?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I think he means you're not honoring the fire by starting this thread.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh. Right.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

i keep thinking of all sorts of rap videos but then i realize that they're noir and not goth. rap artists don't quite have the romanticism for goth (though the bone thugs seem to fit, yeah)

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

way to go, ned, now the fire's all dishonoured and everything.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

It has nothing to do with Honoring the Fire.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

rap artists don't quite have the romanticism for goth

Hm! I like this idea, develop further please (or other people chime in or whatever).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

well, the 3eb song is "i'll never let you go" but i cant find any pics for it.

― Felonious Drunk (Felcher), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

so the fire is ok then?

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:31 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, geto boyz mind playing tricks on me, OTM..

that video was very scary to me

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

geto boyz's mind's playin tricks

this could be like the perfect noir rap track. it makes me think of chester himes and so on ...

rap artists don't quite have the romanticism for goth

well, we're talking about the psyche unraveling here, right? is that really present in goth?? apprehending the sublime is predicated on a pretty strong ego, i think ... whereas in rap (this strain, anyway) it seems the ego sort of dissolves. the rapper becomes the killer becomes the streets personified, etc. i haven't thought this out, though - i don't know if this formulation holds up to any scrutiny, ned.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

also i know jack about goth

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

You won't find anything out about it here, Vahid.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:36 (twenty-two years ago)

The romanticism is a key element, though, so you know more than you think!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:36 (twenty-two years ago)

That's like saying: If you like cake, you'll love the taste of straight FLOUR!

Ned, please hand over all your Siouxsie albums. You clearly have no respect for them.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

*scratches head*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

"If you had real respect for goth, you wouldn't call these videos goth."

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

My version of respecting goth: making sure I never got into full make-up OTT all the time because I would look ridiculous (and also overheat).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

"If you had real respect for goth, you wouldn't call these videos goth."

Vaguely. More like, you wouldn't add to the proliferation of misinformation.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Duh, Ned, Alex is hinting that you forgot about the 98 degrees video where the goatee guy is wearing a Killing Joke T-shirt!

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:47 (twenty-two years ago)

KILLING JOKE ARE NOT GOTHS!

.....you dicks!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Like there was any one approach for goth to start with. Alien Sex Fiend were goofballs, for instance. One reason why they worked so well!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

And they were produced by Youth!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Your point?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

John Ashton of the Psychedelic Furs produced the Sisters of Mercy, that doesn't make him or his band Goths.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

they AREN'T? they wore a lot of black!

(just KIDDING)

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Everyone's secretly a little bit goth.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Mel G 'Word Up'

the original edit, directed by (the) Wiz, is a delicious monochromatic animated clip featuring a vampish inverted Mel in Carroll-esque domain

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

is evanescence goth-lite? what about the matrix (i mean the films)? because if they are, i nominate the video for jagged edge's "walked out of heaven". they're all in black riding around on the front of a black gothmobile acting like life's over ... it's even got the cg cityscape with looming, too-close storm clouds and lightning that you'd see in an evanescence video.

still i don't think this quite hits the mark.

(the supposed goth/rap impasse begs the question - does hongro like goth?)

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Your point?

"Goth" is a very flexible term in music, as is most one-syllable music "genres", and one shouldn't get too bent out of shape about such flexible use.

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

He gets bent out shape about Beyonce and pitbulls! What do you expect?

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

IIRC in Metallica's "Nothing else matters", one of the band members has a Sisters Of Mercy T-Shirt.

In "Stay" the Shakespear Sister girls look really gothic, but the song is definitely pop.

Dead Or Alive and Doctor & The Medics had a pretty gothic look but were doing pop songs, would they be considered goth-pop?

― Seb (Seb), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

"Goth" is a very flexible term in music, as is most one-syllable music "genres", and one shouldn't get too bent out of shape about such flexible use.

Says you.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

http://eil.com/newgallery/New-Kids-On-The-Block-No-More-GamesThe-153457.jpg

This is in place of me being too homophobic to look far for a screencap of the Bauhaus shirt. You get Donnie's skeleton pants instead. RAWR LADIES!

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

John Ashton of the Psychedelic Furs produced the Sisters of Mercy, that doesn't make him or his band Goths.
Alex, Andrew Eldritch is probably on his way to your house RIGHT NOW with a nailgun.

There's that cyberpunky Shania Twain video. Does that count?

― anode (anode), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I said:
"Goth" is a very flexible term in music, as is most one-syllable music "genres", and one shouldn't get too bent out of shape about such flexible use.

Alex in NYC sez:

Says you.

Does this mean we have to be careful whenever we flexibly and facetiously toss around the word "emo" now? Just because someone on this board might happen to be a purist about that word's use?

Sorry, Alex, if such threads upset you. But "goth" has been used facetiously for well over a decade now, mostly by "goth"s themselves, and long before SNL's "Goth Talk" made it a mainstream activity. I didn't expect you to chime in on this thread, but I certainly didn't expect you'd actually express offense at such a thread.

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

But "goth" has been used facetiously for well over a decade now

So has the "n" word. Does that make it right?

I'm not "taking offence," I'm merely doing my part to stem the tide of idiocy.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe we can just refer to it as the "g" word from now on?

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Ain't nothin' but a G thang.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

http://bob.bob.bofh.org/~giolla/goth/whitby/99-act1/friday/goth.jpg

"Can't we all just get along?"

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Not The Nine O'Clock News: "Nice Video - Shame About The Song"

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I think this mosty comes from the notion that the terms ("goth/gothic") are being diluted.

I remember a big slap-up about the difference in terminology between "rap" and "hip-hop" (i.e. such-and-such track may be a rap track, but it ain't a hip-hop track, blah blah blah). There are indeed distinctions. And "goth" and/or "gothic" are specfic term of distinction. In the same way you wouldn't call Billy Idol "hardcore punk", you shoudn't call NKOTB fuckin' "goth".

And to misrepresent the distinction (i.e. "oh, TLC have gone so Goth in this video!", etc.) is to disrespect it.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Everybody disrespects it. Nobody self-identifies as "goth" other than London After Midnightish bands and their fans.

― anode (anode), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

And Alex you have to admit that Bone Thugs are goth to the core:
http://www.interq.or.jp/black/moriai/image.gif

― Begs2Differ, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Good point, anode, the term itself (arguably coined by a journalist) was meant as a pejorative, but it became the identifying term nonetheless.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:29 (twenty-two years ago)

bono the goth

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:31 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe the title should read 'blah blah videos that look goth' ?

while i am not annoyed with the idea of this thread the title is a bit off.

xpost

― kephm, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:31 (twenty-two years ago)

So has the "n" word. Does that make it right?

oh come on, that's a HUGE stretch of an analogy, doncha think? The "n" word has had a far more tumultuous and violent history than the "g" word. "goth" was never born as a demeaning, persecutory term for the overly romantic by an outside group of people.

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

The point of invoking the "n" word was simply a way of demonstrating that just because a term is bandied about liberally, that doesn't necessarily dilute its meaning.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

The irony is that one of the most revered goth icons, Rozz Williams, a decidedly white white kid at the time, used the "n" word himself for shock value on the first Christian Death record.

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:38 (twenty-two years ago)

jigga what?

― kephm, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:40 (twenty-two years ago)

But aside from that.. I mean, dilute what term? I can agree that "goth" meant something more seriously in certain circles in London and Los Angeles, amongst other scenes, in the early 80s. But unless I'm wrong, it was a self-invented term, like "IDM" or "emo", not invented by any outside group persecuting said musicians or artists. "Goth" was relatively dilute from the very start, as opposed to the "n" word.

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:41 (twenty-two years ago)

a decidedly white white kid at the time

Did Rozz change races? Why didn't I get the memo!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:41 (twenty-two years ago)

"Goth" may be an loose tag, but it's not an amorphous one.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Did Rozz change races? Why didn't I get the memo!

Haha.. i was talking about the make-up.

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

"Goth" is one of those words people should NEVER try to define in terms of music, along with "punk" and "good". Just stoppit.

― Stupid (Stupid), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

but it's not an amorphous one.

This is where I throw my hands in the air and say "to each his/her own". I have a long history of using "goth" very loosely as a noun, verb, and adjective... whether it confuses or annoys some people, oh well, that's the risk I take.

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

― anode (anode), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)