Kraftwerk 1, Kraftwerk 2, Ralf & Florian: Classic Or Dud?

search also their 1971 Koln live gig, Schneider / Dinger / Rother, 22 minute version of 'Ruckzuck' that sounds like Neu! playing Black Sabbath with occasional psych breakdowns.

also the incredible "Rückstoss Gondolero" TV appearence.

http://www.headheritage.co.uk/unsung/reviews/index.php?review_id=960

During a brief conversation with Roedelius I had during their '96 tour, I asked about the forthcoming CD reissues of 'Durch Die Wuste'. He replied that the original master no longer existed because it had been REUSED for further recording; tape was so scarce at Plank's studio and there was so much music constantly being produced that frequently master reels were scavenged once the albums were mass produced. The lousy Sky vinyl pressings are all we have; I felt like barbed wire was being pulled through my heart when I heard that...

22 minute version of 'Ruckzuck' that sounds like Neu! playing Black Sabbath with occasional psych breakdowns.

this might be putting it a bit strongly. it's pretty good, though.

In response to the thread question: the first three are classic, "kosmische" rather than the later "roboter" music, but good good stuff indeed. Seek ye out.

I like "Tone Float", it's very stoned & diffuse, a world away from "Kraftwerk 1". Lots of violin, flute, meandering drum circle fun. The filtered flute riff at the beginning of "Milk Rock" is happiness and the last track is sprawlingly good

the live boots of mid-seventies Kraftwerk that began turning up about 5-6 years ago, tracks from the first three albums played live alongside 'autobahn'. 'Concert Classics' is the best of them, but I've never been entirely disappointed by the mid-70's recordings.

soulseek?

yes, it's the Ruckstuss Gondolero appearance mentioned upthread, with the Schneider/Dinger/Rother line-up. A differenmt sound again to Organisation or KW1 (and, obviously to KW2), it's beyond free-form. Fascinating historically, but you can tell that without Ralf in the line-up they were headed in a different (and less purposeful) direction entirely.
Has anyone ever seen their tv appearance on a show called Aspecte in 1973, as documented in Wolfgang's book? Is this on the boot circuit?

Talking of which, apparently there was a documentary on Dutch tv over the weekend (repeated next weekend, apparently) about the band's early days, including Wolfgang's super-8 films of their US Autobahn tour. Like wow.
Do we have any Dutch subscribers here?

As for the original question: dleone hits the nail on the head. First two certainly have their moments (Megaherz, Klingklang and Strom are all among their best work), but R&F is a stone classic. I notice that all KW's LPs are about to be reissued yet again (on Virgin/Astralwerks it says here. Can this be right?), but inevitably omitting the first 3 & Tonefloat. Sigh.

@Jim: A vinyl-reissue of Tone Float is available at a reasonable price here in the Netherlands, about 17 euros. If you're really interested I can arrange a shipment, but since you're in Australia I believe, the shipping costs may be an obstacle.

@Harvey: I only saw part of the Dutch docu that was transmitted last sunday, people like Electrifying Mojo, Derrick May and Carl Craig talking about the influence of Kraftwerk on the Detroit kids/musicians and indeed an interview with Wolfgang Flür, showing his old costumes, drum sticks and a few 8mm snippets of behind the scenes stuff filmed during the 1975 tour...
Luckily, they keep an online ondemand archive of the shows! Realplayer-format, free of charge, it can be seen here, in the Video frame on the right hand side of the page, hit the upper link if you have smallband, the lower link if you have a broadband connection. The first 25 minutes are on Kraftwerk. Enjoy!

It's a little frustrating that the clips from Aspekte are ruined by having some guy I don't care about from Detroit talking over them, and mostly in vision as well. Also a shame that Wolfgang's Super-8 doesn't actually document their shows, but seems to concentrate on how tall the Empire State Building is. Still, historic stuff.

To anyone who's interested: Karl Kraftwerk is playing again in London on (I think) May 16th. Highly recommended!!

Basically, its a greatest hits of all up to and including Autobahn (LP)

i.e. edited versions of tracks from their first four lps.

Me too...cost me 3 qiuid at a record fair; Ralf & Florian cost me a pound (I'm not gloating, honestly). Exceller 8 is the best early album imo (albeit a compilation)...although how 'Vom Himmel Hoch' can bve described as a hit is beyond me. To be honest, apart from RuckZuck and Stratovarius, the earliest I bother with now is Autobahn.

I'm a big Kraftwerk fan, but would personally recommend the BBC's Radiophonic Music as a more worthwhile purchese

That might explain it - it's just synthesized cars and tractors...quite funny really, but it doesn't sound like pop music ;-)

There was also a compilation called "Elektro Kinetic" issued in 1982

Interesting - Fontana also issued 2 very similar comps: Highrail and Autobahn (even though they had a 'proper' album of the same name), each with a different edit of the song Autobahn plus a mix of Kraftwerk 1&2 and Ralf & Florian.

Going back to something someone said earlier - "Ruckzack" was the theme to "Newton's apple"? Can someone tell me what this was, because as soon as I heard the song I knew I'd heard it before.

Oh come come, "Megaherz" is great too

"newton's apple" was a PBS general science show, intended for kids.

from the kraftwerk FAQ:
Is the theme music to Newton's Apple by Kraftwerk?

The American science and technology television programme Newton's Apple used to use Kraftwerk's Ruckzuck as its theme music. This was eventually replaced with a cover version, and then replaced altogether with theme music unconnected with Kraftwerk.

The LP of this runs too slow by about 10%. At the right speed, it sounds rather more like Neu! (motorik blahblahblah) and is much less sludgy. It still has some of the Sabbath-like intensity, though.

I think an early live Kraftwerk collection of sorts is way overdue for release.

Dan Selzer, I nominate YOU to approach Hutter and Schneider and organize the next Acute release. :)

I have...powers.

(You can compare the studio version of "Ruckzuck" with the live one; the difference is roughly 2 semitones, or about 10%. It just sounds right at the corrected speed, somehow.)

http://www.kraftworld.hpg.ig.com.br/discog/live-p.html

the above link's broken somehow, this should work

http://www.valand.gu.se/dm/students/andreas/kw_skivor/tracks.html

Pretty sure this is what I have--$15 new at a Newbury Comics (IIRC). There's no number or label name or anything, but a nice, full-color job--even a pic on the CD and the jewel case area it rests in. So could be a bootleg, I guess, but I never took it as one.

The fact that it has a bonus track leads me to believe it's the same one available above.

I have R&F on CD. It is enjoyable plinky electronica.

I remember an old Record Collector article on the swirl label, "Kraftwerk" was about three from the end of all the swirl albums. Doesn't Record Collector have a website with their valuation guide in it?

You have to stare at the label going round, but at 78rpm...

(In my Box was proto punk,

I have a cd version now though.

can't vouch as i have read neither

Wolfgang Flur's book is a good read if you can get past all the hippy-speak and the shameless self-promotion.

"New York was unbelievable, you couldn't have imagined it, here I was in America. I'll never forget the night I spent in the tour bus with that beautiful young woman, who's name I can't remember. In any case, then we returned to Berlin and recorded 'Radioactivity', and then I took a few days off"

ralf und florian has a great insert and a great back cover, also it is a very good album

i'm much less impressed by the first two, some of the experiments are rather tiresome although not--to me--unlistenable

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0946719705/qid=1080371055/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_11_1/202-1370759-4053434

'Autobahn' was recorded & co-produced by Plank. Initial copies of the album mention the recording location, later copies omit all information beyond 'produced by Ralf Hutter & Florian Schneider'. R&F never credited nor paid Plank for co-producing their first big hit, and they took the proceeds from the single to build Kling Klang Studio.

Plank was a huge factor on the first three records, he was designing many of the sounds they were using; by 'Autobahn' they obviously far less dependent on him, but it's interesting to know that Plank worked on 'Autobahn'. On side two, it's obvious.

How many false endings?

On "Suck it and see" sampler, none.
On my original "Kraftwerk" double album, two.
On my "Krafwerk" CD "reissue", one.

I got the impression that Wolfgang was actually the band's chief electronics engineer, co-designing & building Klingklang. He certainly invented & built the electronic percussion pads the band used. (Tho Florian patented them, which also has Ralf & Florian's home addresses, should you be interested)

These guys seem kind of precious about their overall Kraftwerk concept/appearance, and they probably see these early albums as not fitting into the 'perfect Germanic' pose that they've honed(spoofed?) over the years. I've heard 'Tone Float' and I can at least see why they wouldn't want that one rereleased. Some may like it, but what I heard was very weak, very awkward improv psych rock. I was almost embarrassed by it myself as a listener (sometimes I wonder if people [i.e. Cope] rate some of these mediocre albums highly simply based on the fact that it's from 60's era Germany) but then I find that whole Ash Ra, Cosmic Joker, Klaus Schulze stuff cringe-worthy in general.

Those first 3 lead up rather nicely to Autobahn though and they really shouldn't feel the need to hide them.

i do not likes synths.

Accessing....

Smiling....

Stranger things have happened...

from what is this weird kraftwerk lp i have?

ok got the boot in the mail. it's a CD called 'Kraftwerk - K4'. though it says 'Radio Bremen', this is the 12 june 71 Köln gig again, the same bootleg that's been circulating for years, most recently on LP as 'Ruckzuck', linked above

except unlike the previous issues which sound like 4th dubs of something recorded off the radio onto a bad cassette -- this seems like it's the original board recording. studio fidelity, mastered at the correct speed, and with about 25 minutes of extra material -- two extra songs, and no fades -- 69 minutes.

I nearly started a new thread on this, it's the Kraftneu album -- Rother in full on Sabbath mode, the first album stripped to relentless one chord guitar jams, always accellerating. I've posted this before and someone responded that it only sounded like Sabbath because of the tape speed & distortion, but the first track starts with a near direct reference to 'Iron Man', you can see why Hutter had left the group for these gigs, this is heavy heavy metal

-- milton parker (milton.parke...), June 18th, 2006.

has anyone heard the recording of the 11 october 71 show, or know what the lineup is?

Milton, I've a copy of the St Ingbert show from 71 (dated 1971-07-11, hmm) that I fetched from Napster many years back. Seems to be the Dinger/Rother/Schneider lineup again. Performance is comparable though fidelity is readily surpassed by K4.

Yah, the Germanofon versions. Dusty Groove also has them, for about $5 cheaper, but I'm not sure whether they're on (generally high-quality for bootlegs) Germanofon or some other label.

For some reason it's fairly easy to find the Germanofon versions of 1 and 2 on CD, but near-impossible to find Ralf & Florian. Bah.

It sounds like Guru Guru! Who'd have thunk it? It's interesting stuff but kind of boring after a while. Great drumming from Der Dinger! Thanks for posting this link!!

I agree whoever with those who said these tracks remind them of guru guru (which=a positive in my book). Currently, I've only heard Guru Guru's "Hinten"; what other albums of their's are crucial to track down?

new 30 minute boot from Seidr, same people who did K4

are there still vinyl boots floating around of the 'ralf and florian'?

I heard (and liked) "Autobahn" before I'd read a single piece of music criticism, so who told me to like it?

radioactivity

kometenmelodie

ts: being british vs living in williamsburg ;(

I've never found the 'other 71-bootleg' milton mentions upthread, this looks like a clip from it - great audio and visual quality, only too short!

yes, that's the first track on 'Kraftwerk !/2'. didn't even expect there'd be another kraftneu! video after 'truckstop gondolero'. so that whole bootleg is compiled entirely from the WDR TV clips

'Kraftwerk !/2' is at least as amazing as 'K4', the only reason I can think of why people aren't talking as much about it is that it's got a completely ungoogle-able title

I really have to hunt down a DVD of all those krautrock WDR clips, youtube is not enough

God, that track is amazing... I need to check out these boots.

Florian looked already like an android.

I just downloaded:

REMASTER

Kraftwerk
K4 (Bremen Radio 1971) {SEIDR 026}

Gondel Kino, Bremen, Germany
June 25, 1971
---------------

Source: Zomb post by 'toadinohio' who kindly agreed to this remaster - thanks !!
http://zombtracker.the-zomb.com/details.php?id=9499

Also to be found here on Dime: post by 'humanoidboo'
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=99855

Stereo Soundboard Recording

Lineage: Reel(M) -> DAT (x) -> private CDR -> EAC (secure, test & copy) -> FLAC
_____________________________________________________

Changes made (Nero 7):
Reduced right channel to 85% on all tracks
Deleted the gaps between tracks
Cross-faded most tracks to smooth out transitions
Fixed lots of balance & volume fluctuations within tracks
Fixed right-channel bias of applause

Transfer: Flac > Nero > CDRW > EAC > FlacFrontend (level 6)

Quality: EX
-------------

This is an extremely rare early version of Kraftwerk, includin the founders of Neu! It
is a far heavier guitar-driven performance than the later synth-based group and sounds
closer to Amon Duul.

I did a fair bit of tidying up (details above), so what was already a great sounding
recording is now quite superb, so...

...Grab this jewel quick !!

01. Heavy Metal Kids (07:51)
02. K1 (15:34)
03. K2 (Ruckzuck) (19:09)
04. K3 (15:09)
05. K4 (11:29)

Total playing time: 69:15

Original info
---------------
Comments by littlebear:

There isn't any extra information about this this unofficial release either in the
liner notes or on the interweb thing - however, as you listen it becomes obvious that
this is indeed a recording of the rather short-lived lineup of Kraftwerk that includes
Michael Rother and Klaus Dinger in its ranks! That's right - Neu! as part of Kraftwerk!!!
Are you still reading? Why aren't you downloading instead?! :P

It's basically a whole CD of extended "side-long" jams in the style of the first
Kraftwerk albums performed in front of a small but enthusiastic audience and broadcast
on Bremen Radio in 1971. The members of Neu! really take a forward role here, with
Rother's guitar driving things for most of the time and sounding quite rocking, with
glimpses of his future soaring melodic sound in the extended jam passages. The guitar
and drums are backed up by synth and I believe organ bass, with notable exceptions of
flute taking the forefront on the great version of Ruckzack (from the first Kraftwerk
LP) and is it distorted electric violin on K4? Maybe just Rother taking a violin bow
to his guitar strings! Proto-Kraftwerk and proto-Neu! It's exciting stuff, and on top
of that the sound quality is excellent - a professional radio recording.

How has this recording not become better known over the past 35 years since it was
made?! I don't know. It appears to be a newly released CDR edition with good-quality
(but privately printed) packaging. Maybe it has stayed in the Radio Bremen archives
until now? If you're sceptical about the authenticity I'm sure a listen will persuade
you... and hearing someone in the crowd shout "Michael!" in the last second of the
recording is the icing on the cake 8-)
_____________________________________________________

Ripped, encoded & seeded by littlebear, June 13, 2006

and also have access to

KRAFTWERK RUCKZUCK! Recorded at Photokina, Koln, 12th June 1971

1. Ruckstoss Gondolero (11.15) [REMOVED!]
2. Vom Himmel Hoch (16.43)
3. Stratovarius (6.01)
4. Ruckzuck (22.16)

Lineage:Vinyl LP >CDR>WAV>FLAC Level 8>You!

Here’s some (very) vintage Kraftwerk from 1971, the sixth of my series of KW torrents.

I obtained this white vinyl LP (cat. no. KWRZ 75). Today I transferred it to CD, using a Linn Sondek LP12 turntable (with Cirkus upgrade and a Linn Lingo 2 power supply) with a Linn Ittok LVIII arm and an Esco rebuild Linn Klyde moving coil cartridge, through a Hi-Capped Naim 72 pre-amp (equipped with Naim K phono boards) and Chord Chrysalis cables, to a Marantz DR700 CD recorder. No remastering, declicking or other fiddling with the files was done at all.

The first track (recorded at the Beat Club) has been removed as it has been officially released.

An interesting gig – Klaus Dinger and Michael Rother, later of the mighty Neu! were still with the band at this time.

Download, listen, enjoy, but don’t be an arsewipe money-grabbing Thatcherite breadhead and sell this on eBay or at a Camden Market bootleg stall. Do not encode to MP3 or other crap lossy formats!

‘Werkers of the world unite!

as well as a handful of other shows between 70 and 75, if anyone wants them. 40-minute Autobahn, anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgpLAPZEf7Y

Watch Kraftwerk play "Ruckzuck" in 1970! What's great about the video, besides it's surprisingly high quality of audio/video by youtube standards, is that it focuses on the faces of the crowd more than the band, and you can watch the faces enthralled for 2 1/2 minutes, followed by another 2 1/2 minutes of growing unrest and alienation.

I tend to forget how much I like Ralf und Florian (which I only have as mp3s). So this is never going to be officially reissued? (I can't remember if it was ever even officially released and I'm too hot to read the thread.) Really good cooling stuff to listen to in one's underwear in an apartment that is around 88 degrees.

supposedly the early albums are being remastered by Ralf, but who knows.

Ralf, he said so in an interview (Mojo, I think)

With Florian gone, it may be sooner rather than later, but then again, K's 'sooner' is everyone else's 'later'...

Whoa...had to write this all again.

I just gave KW1 another listen and found it much better than I did in the past. I don't think it's great (besides "Ruckzuck"), but the intense moments are great. Very neat album that's a lot different than what anyone was doing at the time. You could say that about KW2 as well, though I don't find it anywhere near as entertaining. In fact, I don't see any value to it outside of "Klingklang", which is not really that good either. R&F is good but seems to me like a knockoff of Cluster's Zuckerzeit in some ways. It's a nice one if you're looking for some ambience. Some of it ("Kristallo") seems frighteningly modern.

The Concert Classics release is great. Something weird happened with the tracklisting though. The one listed as "Morgenspazergung" is announced as "Klingklang", though the actual tune they play sounds like something different entirely.

R&F is good but seems to me like a knockoff of Cluster's Zuckerzeit in some ways

R+F is '73, Zuckerzeit is '74. 1st Harmonia album is similar, tho I think tha's after R+F too.

Whoa, I thought Zuckerzeit was '72. I forgot that Cluster's first album was in 1971 (for whatever reason I thought it was 1968? Even though it's named "Cluster 71"!?)

Either way I'd place it like this - Deluxe > Harmonia debut album (?) > Zuckerzeit > R&F

Nothing against R&F but you should really pick up those other albums first.

Hmmmmmmmm, I might agree with that but "Ananas Symphonie" makes me not want to

yeah, "ananas symphonie" is an all-time classic. might even be my favorite track on any of those four releases...

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/kraftwerk-on-cycling-3d-spiritual-connection-to-detroit-20150826

What's the story with the reissues of the first three Kraftwerk albums, before Autobahn? When will they be released?
They are from another early phase of our work (before) Kling Klang Studios. Maybe when we have time one day, we'll release those, but so far we haven't found the time. We've been doing so much, concentrating on Kraftwerk since Autobahn. That's when we really started with electronic symphonies. We're concentrating on our work now and for the future, so we haven't found the time to really look to the past.

thats been their standard b.s. answer to that for years

"Look to the future not the past" = remaster and remix the same 8 historical albums in digital, 3D, 4D, 5D for over 20 years.

Sure, Ralf

He really is the master of giving interviews in which he is very charming and says precisely nothing.

it would take so much time and effort on their part to hand over the master tapes to someone else to remaster

I just get the impression that the band (Ralf) don't like those records and would be more than happy to pretend that they didn't exist. I mean, if Kraftwerk gave that much of a shit about those records they probably would have been remastered/remixed/re-released by now. After all, as already mentioned, much of what Kraftwerk have been doing since Electric Café has been looking to the past. Even Tour De France Soundtracks was based on an old idea!

Thankfully I have the 1st 2 on OG vinyl. Getting Kraftwerk 2 new and sealed in Tower Records around 1996 after they apparently found it in a warehouse was a real stroke of luck as pre-internet there was no chance of hearing it. I do have one of the bootleg cds of 1 that i got before i got the lp for £30 on gemm.com over 10 years ago.
I actually heard Ralf & Florian before I heeard those 2 as a friends big brother had a tape copy from the 70s. Id love to get that on lp with the poster one day.

Yeah I think it's very much that, they don't really fit into the KW narrative and have a sort of looseness and experimental side to them that later Kraftwerk records don't have. What's kind of amazing to me is how few rarities/demos/unfinished tracks have leaked out from these guys - even the handmade "rare Kraftwerk" collections are all remixes and alternate language stuff. Ralf has gone on the record saying that KW never had "unfinished" tunes - I think he just really, really wants to control what gets released under the Kraftwerk name and probably considers those 3 albums a dilution of the KW brand.

Yeah, the comic book that comes with Ralf und Florian would be worth the price of admission alone. Even if it wasn't an amazing album in its own right. I listen to it all the time. (I still listen to K1 a bit, but I should probably give K2 another chance.)

Who has the masters for the first 3 albums? Because they bought the Autobahn masters outright off Conny Plank, but did they get the first three as well?

the 2 I have are on Philips but im sure if they owned the masters they would have milked the cash cow by now

Kraftwerk rarities..

The "Kohoutek" single - proto versions of both "Kometenmelodie" 1 and 2

Two Italian albums that edit the first four albums to one side each.

A promo cd for the big box that has an edit of "Autobahn" that is similar in length to the original single but has some different bits

What else is not in the big box beyond the Min/max album? And the first three lps big.

xpost Vertigo kept the albums on catalogue until the rights ran out, and made another 'best of' right at the end (Elektro Kinetic).

obv. Not big.

I do like K2, I admit I skip "Atem" - is that one a poke at Tandpgerine Dream?

Ha, keeping that misspelling...

Some clever clogs on YouTube mixed Atem into Tour de France, which was fairly amusing.

I do like K2, I admit I skip "Atem" - is that one a poke at Tandpgerine Dream?

It predates TD's "Atem" by a year.

fair enough. No idea about it now.

BRUMMMMM

http://40.media.tumblr.com/fe272ec67af3e9bdb17b4c6524a155c2/tumblr_mltvara6Sx1ritsqio3_1280.jpg

Its cute!

Can you believe it?

Ah - didn't know about "Kohoutek". But yes - it's almost all edits of existing stuff that's slightly different, outside of the 83 "Tour de France" they have basically no B-sides or non-album singles. I can't think of another band quite like that. They also have this one newish tune they played at a festival in like...98? But nothing ever came of it.

There's the Expo 2000 single.

just listened to all three of these within the last week or two, they sure have held up well

god, he's like a fucking politician

Watch out for the autoplay on this page, but it's just an interesting compare and contrast back to the days when Hütter actually used to engage with questions from the press, instead of just dishing out his carefully prepared statements:

http://kraftwerklove.tumblr.com/post/40619222070/new-musical-express-ralf-hütter-june-1981

But you also see, in an interview like that, where the NME is so obviously trying to operate from a political agenda, why exactly he stopped engaging with interviewers or questions.

I'm just particularly into the transitional sequence of Ralf und Florian -> Autobahn -> Radioactivity at the moment. At a point of balance, where they are neither completely the Kosmische experimental band, nor the streamlined, disciplined purely synthesised outfit, yet still somehow both. It's the aural equivalent of looking at charts of animal evolution, except you have bits of things that are missing links.

I really quite respect the ferocious quality control that means that there are no out-takes and B-sides and no sketches, only finished product. It means there is, at last, a finite *end* to Kraftwerk. They're a compulsive artist (and attract compulsive behaviour) and it's rather a relief that it is possible to be a completist with regards to them. (Unless you start getting into live bootlegs, but that is a defensible position to take, to not go there - until someone tells you there's an early unfinished version of Showroom Dummies in Croydon and you have to go and listen to it to find out (despite the annoying reversed channels) because this idea of hearing a Kraftwerk song in an unfinished or sketched-out or only improvised state is fascinating, because it's so rare!)

ILX really doesn't like umlauts in links, huh.

http://kraftwerklove.tumblr.com/post/40619222070/new-musical-express-ralf-hütter-june-1981

trying this..

ah well.

http://kraftwerklove.tumblr.com/post/40619222070/new-musical-express-ralf-hütter-june-1981

lets see

i probably did the same 'trick' as mark

yes.

Folks, the

"[URL]"

I managed to left click the full URL on firefox and got the option to open in New tab etc. which worked ok.

Sorry, it's right click. The left is the main one and the right the less used one. Doh.

http://kraftwerklove.tumblr.com/post/40619222070/new-musical-express-ralf-h%FCtter-june-1981

that's how you do it

er, but before you click on it, it's NSFW (music)