According to pitchfork, "wtf" is a genre now.

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the review of the Mandy Moore/Michael Stipe collabo is listed as such.

I wholeheartedly endorse this and since I rarely approve of Pitchfork shenanigans, I thought I'd mention it.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:01 (twenty years ago)

Ah, good old "We Are The World". Always three weeks behind the rest of the Internet.

It's way better than one and a half stars, anyway.

― edward o (edwardo), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:04 (twenty years ago)

let's think up the wtf canon!

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:05 (twenty years ago)

though, wait, I'm already doing that: VOTE VOTE VOTE for the most OMGWTFLOL(ROFFLE) HITS OF THE 90'S!!!!

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:06 (twenty years ago)

Example 1: Pitchfork enjoying pop music for its own sake.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:06 (twenty years ago)

Does it consist of things OTHER than popettes covering songs they [rockist]HAVE NO RIGHT TO COVER BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO IMPORTANT[/rockist]?

― edward o (edwardo), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:06 (twenty years ago)

with Michael Stipe? Yes.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:07 (twenty years ago)

Stipe is key here

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:07 (twenty years ago)

But Stipe is a manslut. He'd sing with anyone right now. Mandy Moore is prettier than she used to be.

― edward o (edwardo), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:09 (twenty years ago)

R. Kelly and Fred Durst are pioneers in the field of wtf.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:10 (twenty years ago)

Neil "Trans" Young is the godfather of wtf.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:11 (twenty years ago)

MICHAEL STIPE/FRED DURST DUET NOW PLEASE RECORD COMPANIES thx.

― edward o (edwardo), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:11 (twenty years ago)

Michael "you're a vegetable, you're a buffet" Jackson goes up there too. Along with Disco Tex & The Sex-O-Lettes.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:11 (twenty years ago)

Actually if Fred Durst and R. Kelly teamed up for a Best Of Both Worlds deal it would take three weeks to get the smile off my face.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:13 (twenty years ago)

Nu Saved Me

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:13 (twenty years ago)

is the metallica/marianne faithfull duet wtf?

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:14 (twenty years ago)

oh definitely. as is "The Unforgiven 2." Actually, I would say that Metallica have been wholly within the wtf genre since Re-Load.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:15 (twenty years ago)

That title was kinda the signal.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:15 (twenty years ago)

Oh man. "Unforgiven 2". Right at the end, how it goes "Because you're UNFORGIVEN TOO" TOO = 2.. that is WTF gold.

― edward o (edwardo), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:16 (twenty years ago)

Oh, and the preceding line where James says he's going to insert a key into your orifice.

― edward o (edwardo), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:17 (twenty years ago)

miccio on a roll, haha.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:18 (twenty years ago)

also there's S&M where the conductor must have just yelled "trill!" for two CDs. and you KNOW St. Anger is 100% wtf.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:19 (twenty years ago)

Electric Six, Junior Senior & the Scissor Sisters are all trying to find out if wtf can be done on purpose.

tatu and the new terrorist-oriented one are also very wtf.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:31 (twenty years ago)

beck was once mistaken for wtf

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:31 (twenty years ago)

This isn't a genre, it's a state of mind (and can be celebrated as such).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:48 (twenty years ago)

like this is the first genre that exists on a purely conceptual level.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 25 September 2004 23:49 (twenty years ago)

I think the house mix of 'All Your Base Are Belong To Us" belongs in this category.

― 57 7th (calstars), Sunday, 26 September 2004 00:19 (twenty years ago)

Also, 'Sulu Dance.'

― 57 7th (calstars), Sunday, 26 September 2004 00:20 (twenty years ago)

I think the Jethro Tull smash hit "J-Tull Dot Com" is pretty wtf. Refrain:

I'm yours
Yours... dot com.

In addition, Jethro Tull's whole album "J Tull Dot Com" is pretty wtf too.

― mrjosh (mrjosh), Sunday, 26 September 2004 01:04 (twenty years ago)

"Cotton Eye Joe" is definitely wtf.

― The Good Dr. Bill (Andrew Unterberger), Sunday, 26 September 2004 01:32 (twenty years ago)

abba OWN wtf

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 26 September 2004 01:41 (twenty years ago)

Boney M is quite wtf.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 02:19 (twenty years ago)

Chuck Eddy books are for the most part based on the thesis "wtf=best music ever"

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 02:20 (twenty years ago)

Haha, Miccio OTM!!

― Mike Ouderkirk (Mike Ouderkirk), Sunday, 26 September 2004 02:23 (twenty years ago)

ditto richie unterberger, irwin chusid, julian cope...

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 26 September 2004 02:23 (twenty years ago)

in relation to those guys I guess I should amend Chuck's thesis to "danceable wtf=best music ever"

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 02:25 (twenty years ago)

Junior Senior are deeply indebted to the wtf canon, with all their references to wtf luminaries Sparks, the Sweet, the B-52s, JJ Fad, New York Dolls, Nancy and Lee, etc.

― Mike Ouderkirk (Mike Ouderkirk), Sunday, 26 September 2004 02:25 (twenty years ago)

i think bands that are trying to be wtf do not count

― jess (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 26 September 2004 02:26 (twenty years ago)

motive is irrelevant, it's the effect that matters. Personally I'd say the Electric Six are very wtf but that Beck is not.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 02:28 (twenty years ago)

see David Bowie and "avant-garde"

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 02:29 (twenty years ago)

motive is never irrelevant!

― jess (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 26 September 2004 02:30 (twenty years ago)

actually maybe not so much motive as context

― jess (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 26 September 2004 02:30 (twenty years ago)

in which case your electric six/beck thing still holds true

― jess (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 26 September 2004 02:30 (twenty years ago)

ok yeah context is relevant. but trying definitely doesn't exclude you from qualifying. It probably just makes it more impressive if you pull it off.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 02:34 (twenty years ago)

In that respect, Britney's horrendous "My Prerogative" would be the one of the biggest ever failures of the wtf genre.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 26 September 2004 03:35 (twenty years ago)

although the birth of wtf is somewhat disputable, I believe Chuck Berry elicited the first true "wtf" with My Ding-A-Ling.

― Bill Neil, Sunday, 26 September 2004 03:38 (twenty years ago)

gah mandy moore is so cute gah

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 26 September 2004 03:43 (twenty years ago)

"See David Bowie and 'avant-garde'"

What do you mean by this?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 26 September 2004 03:46 (twenty years ago)

A lot of country music strikes me as wtf.

― jim wentworth (wench), Sunday, 26 September 2004 03:50 (twenty years ago)

(x-post) Wait, I get it; it's not wtf. So what, though? Neither is a lot of stuff. Are you saying he was trying to be wtf and FAILED?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 26 September 2004 03:51 (twenty years ago)

Chuck Eddy books are for the most part based on the thesis "wtf=best music ever"

-- manthony m1cc1o (anthonyisrigh...) (webmail), September 25th, 2004 10:20 PM. (Anthony Miccio) (later) (link)

i'm glad you said it and not me, cos i don't really know his books but from cursory descriptions of them it really seems that this would be true, and that i have no business reading them

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 26 September 2004 03:54 (twenty years ago)

Strikes me as a very reductionist take.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 26 September 2004 03:55 (twenty years ago)

But I suppose he was kidding around.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 26 September 2004 03:56 (twenty years ago)

I believe Chuck Berry elicited the first true "wtf" with My Ding-A-Ling.
A fine example of wtf, but that wasn't until what, 1968? There must be earlier examples.

What about Richie Valens' "La Bamba"?

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 26 September 2004 03:59 (twenty years ago)

huh? there have always been novelty records

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:00 (twenty years ago)

But not all novelty records are wtf records. With a wtf record, there has to be an element of the artist delivering the unexpected.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:02 (twenty years ago)

charley patton

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:04 (twenty years ago)

So what are the "oh, that's the fuck" records?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:24 (twenty years ago)

"that's the fuck"?????

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:25 (twenty years ago)

"But not all novelty records are wtf records. With a wtf record, there has to be an element of the artist delivering the unexpected."

so would, say, a groucho marx song about health foods count? i think a lot of 30s-40s novelty is in a wtf gray area.

― nameom (nameom), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:27 (twenty years ago)

My dear amst:

WTF = "what the fuck?"

In response:

OTTF = "oh, THAT's the fuck."

And we are all happy again.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:28 (twenty years ago)

"that's the fuck" sounds like the laugh line for some really ribald and corny BBC comedy

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:29 (twenty years ago)

That Britney song with the Ying Yang Twins is a great WTF record, especially for the part at the end when one Ying Yang says, "Ying Yang Twins, with BRITNEY SPEARS?!?!?!" and he's as confused as everyone else.

― Mike Ouderkirk (Mike Ouderkirk), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:33 (twenty years ago)

Oh yeah, and the banjos on that song are pretty wtf too, although in that case, wtf is arguably the motive there.

― Mike Ouderkirk (Mike Ouderkirk), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:36 (twenty years ago)

wtf should ideally go past unexpected and get near inexplicable. not just "i wouldn't have thought of that" but "what were they thinking?"

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:39 (twenty years ago)

bing and bowie?

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:39 (twenty years ago)

totally

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:42 (twenty years ago)

There is a danger here that you're letting Pitchfork determine the critical language in the same way that Rolling Stone convinced people that 'electronica' was used by someone else before they themselves did.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:46 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, but I like the idea that the Ying Yang Twins still couldn't believe they were asked to guest on a Britney Spears song even while they were recording it.

― Mike Ouderkirk (Mike Ouderkirk), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:50 (twenty years ago)

who are the ying yang twins?

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:52 (twenty years ago)

dude I was already polling for WTF '90s singles. We're acknowledging proto-wtf writers like Kogan ("free lunch" and wtf are closely related) and Eddy. Pitchfork is just unexpected corroboration. And personally I think "electronica" is a much more valid term for that stuff than "dance."

oh and yeah I am oversimplifying re: chuck's books (which are my favorite rock-crit tomes ever, that stuff thrown in the brain of an indie kid who realized he got into REM because of "Stand" before being indoctrinated by SPIN with the glory of alternative rockism probably sums up my sensibility for the most part).

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:52 (twenty years ago)

And personally I think "electronica" is a much more valid term for that stuff than "dance."

Hm, but why though? (I'm not being flippant here.) "Electronica" is easily one of the most ugly words to my sensibilities, though I'd be hard pressed to exactly say why -- it's so clumsy, though.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:58 (twenty years ago)

"dance" makes the blatantly erroneous presumption that a) it covers all music that is dance-oriented and b) that the primary goal of all it encompasses is to make you dance. The roots are indeed dance-oriented but I think "electronica" gets at the genuine common denominator (computers, synths) between house and idm (whose prog like tendencies fit far better with the tech-fetishism implied by "electronica" than "dance"). The term IDM alone makes blatant how far from dance-is-what-matters the field has become. None of these are value statements, I'm just talking about valid descriptors.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:03 (twenty years ago)

The roots are indeed dance-oriented

and even that can be debated. Kraut-rock, Suicide and the Silver Apples are all big influences along with disco.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:06 (twenty years ago)

Still too Wenneresque to my mind (I can't say I EVER heard of it being used before RS did, thus my comment, but if someone can/confirm deny...). It is rendolent of a time when the companies were trying to figure out how to package Fat of the Land-Prodigy, the Chemicals and Republica over here, and I'd be more than willing to bit it's that last band which prompted this name's use to begin with.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:07 (twenty years ago)

but how is dance MORE valid than electronica (or techno, for that matter)? tell a line-dancer they don't get electronica but don't tell 'em they don't get dance music.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:09 (twenty years ago)

plus there's serious irony to the amount of rigorous study that supposedly comes with being allowed to even talk about "dance" music in some circle.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:10 (twenty years ago)

electronica better fits with the "can i see where you got certified to discuss this machinery?" mentality.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:11 (twenty years ago)

"electronic music" >>> "electronica"

i use "dance music" when the music sounds like you can dance to it.

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:17 (twenty years ago)

i use "music for dancing"

― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:18 (twenty years ago)

"music to watch girls by"

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:19 (twenty years ago)

i call that watch music

― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:19 (twenty years ago)

antmusic for sex people

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:20 (twenty years ago)

i don't mind the term "electronica" in theory but i'd feel like a total tool actually saying it out loud

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:21 (twenty years ago)

"electronic music" works fine, though I think I've proven I don't mind coming off like a tool to technoids.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:31 (twenty years ago)

haha it should be called Wonderwall Music.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:31 (twenty years ago)

"y'know, i don't know about all these labels: electronica, dance music, house, folktronica. it's all music inn't?"

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:35 (twenty years ago)

-- classic or dud?

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:35 (twenty years ago)

"music for knobheads"

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:36 (twenty years ago)

at least the "it's all music" person shuts up after that sentence. post-reynolds classification nuts, on the other hand...

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:37 (twenty years ago)

Explain to me the term "electronica"

also,charley patton figures as very prominent proto-wtfer in my books.

ok, carry on.

― chuck, Sunday, 26 September 2004 06:20 (twenty years ago)

Pre-WWII novelty records can be considered progenitors of wtf, but I would not go so far as to call them wtf. If you want to be technical, novelty records have existed since the beginning of recorded sound. Early cylinder recordings in the late 19th century were basically all novelties. But, and here's the key, they were NOT wtf.

What about Richie Valens' "La Bamba"?

I don't know about you, but La Bamba does not cause me to go "wtf". It's more like "wow, that's a novelty record." But with My Ding-A-Ling, on the other hand, I can't think of anything else to say other than "wtf".

― bill neil (inabillity), Sunday, 26 September 2004 13:11 (twenty years ago)

The Nottingham branch of Selectadisc has had an 'Incredibly Strange Music' section for ages. However, for about the last year and a half, the only record that has been in it is Bruce Haack - The Electric Lucifer.

― emil.y (emil.y), Sunday, 26 September 2004 14:33 (twenty years ago)

i kind of feel like "rocked by rape" could be put into the WTF category, largely because whenever i play it on the radio or at a club, i always have someone calling/coming up to me and saying, "what the fuck?"

― maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Sunday, 26 September 2004 15:09 (twenty years ago)

wtf is novelty about La Bamba?

― m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Sunday, 26 September 2004 15:18 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I was about to say.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 26 September 2004 15:19 (twenty years ago)

Junior Senior are deeply indebted to the wtf canon, with all their references to wtf luminaries Sparks, the Sweet, the B-52s, JJ Fad, New York Dolls, Nancy and Lee, etc.

-- Mike Ouderkirk (moudrkr...), September 26th, 2004.

Last night i heard Junior Senior in Kroger, which was a very wtf experience. I've discovered several wtf songs that way at groceries stores late at night, with a few massive ott pop hits that are complete Fantasies of Decadence play in the background while people shop for eggs and milk in their pajamas.

My fave: "Heaven is a Place on Earth" and "Total Eclipse of the Heart"

― Adam Bruneau (oliver8bit), Sunday, 26 September 2004 15:22 (twenty years ago)

could the nelly/xtina collab be labeled wtf? or am i an idiot?

― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Sunday, 26 September 2004 15:24 (twenty years ago)

wtf is novelty about La Bamba?

just the fact that it isn't purely rock'n'roll and that it's sung in Spanish. it's more novelty than wtf, at least.

― bill neil (inabillity), Sunday, 26 September 2004 15:32 (twenty years ago)

Thong Song?

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 26 September 2004 16:42 (twenty years ago)

WTF contains a lot of songs I think are great.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 26 September 2004 16:43 (twenty years ago)

Beach Boys - Love You
Alice Cooper - Flush the Fashion
Guns'N'Roses - My World

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 26 September 2004 16:47 (twenty years ago)

Travistan is 100% wtf.

― nameom (nameom), Sunday, 26 September 2004 17:31 (twenty years ago)

Miccio, would you classify Limp Bizkit's cover of "Behind Bue Eyes" as WTF?

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 26 September 2004 19:56 (twenty years ago)

I considered it as wtf even before I learned it was a cover. It helped that I was watching the video at the time, too.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 26 September 2004 20:14 (twenty years ago)

at least they didn't add a "Faith"-style breakdown. now THAT would be wtf.

― nameom (nameom), Sunday, 26 September 2004 20:21 (twenty years ago)

i remember liking that "faith" cover when it came out because it made me laugh.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 26 September 2004 20:22 (twenty years ago)

I've already said that Fred Durst is a pioneer of wtf, but any cover that featured a speak'n'spell suggesting you discover the band in question would qualify.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 26 September 2004 22:30 (twenty years ago)

http://www.numbertwopencil.net/graphics/apple1.jpg

http://www.numbertwopencil.net/graphics/apple2.jpg

http://www.numbertwopencil.net/graphics/apple3.jpg

http://www.numbertwopencil.net/graphics/apple4.jpg

ihttp://www.numbertwopencil.net/graphics/apple5.jpg

The Apple, now available on DVD.

― Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Monday, 27 September 2004 02:45 (twenty years ago)

Huh. That's weird.

ihttp://www.numbertwopencil.net/graphics/apple5.jpg

― Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Monday, 27 September 2004 02:48 (twenty years ago)

Don't think we don't know it:

The Apple: future-disco-biblical-glitter musical C/D?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 27 September 2004 02:48 (twenty years ago)

That's right; I now recall skimming this thread back before I saw it. I'm glad to see that you found the reggae song as mesmerizing as I did.

― Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Monday, 27 September 2004 02:52 (twenty years ago)

It's...unique.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 27 September 2004 02:56 (twenty years ago)

Xanadu to thread!

I must see "The Apple" now.

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Monday, 27 September 2004 13:03 (twenty years ago)

Is that Boney M in the Apple movie? Or does it have some connection to them? Those people totally *look* like Boney M (who were obviously the all time champions of wtf, as i think anthony suggested above)....

Most of the records on this thread are not wtf at all, I'm afraid. (Or at least not half as wtf as, say, the biggest hits by Focus or Haysi Fantayzee.) ((i.e. -- old coot dueting with young star who is a fan of old coot is not wtf by any stretch; it happens all the time.)

And "My Dingaling" (which may or may not be wtf) hardly invented the genre; not even close. I don't get that at all. But I don't have time right now to go into specifics (for the hundred millionth time).

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 13:51 (twenty years ago)

Chuck, since wtf is contextual, you should realize that, since you've been standing neck-deep in the stuff for at least two decades, the rest of us will find more things novel.

That said, "Hocus Pocus" and "Shiny Shiny" are unspeakably wtf.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 13:55 (twenty years ago)

And Big and Rich are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more wtf than Fred Durst could ever dream of being, obviously.

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 13:56 (twenty years ago)

Now that you mention it I'm sure they were definite role models, since the movie was European and came out in 1980. Good call! But no, that's not them. Have you seen the movie, though? It's truly something.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 27 September 2004 13:56 (twenty years ago)

Ditto Will to Power. And three-quarters of the continent of Europe.

xpost

no, i never even heard of The Apple til now. But now I want to!

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 13:58 (twenty years ago)

Oh man, Chuck, you don't even know. It's out on DVD as mentioned and I know that at least a few NYC ILXors have it. Cheap through Amazon and elsewhere, $10 or so.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:03 (twenty years ago)

best thread ever

― artdamages (artdamages), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:47 (twenty years ago)

I can't believe this thread hasn't touched upon Alcazar's wtf qualities. A gay disco bootleg of Genesis and "Upside Down"? Come on...

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:49 (twenty years ago)

And Big and Rich are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more wtf than Fred Durst could ever dream of being, obviously.

oh bullshit. I'd argue that Big And Rich make plenty sense. Next you're gonna tell me "Hey Ya" is wtf.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:51 (twenty years ago)

pop-friendly and progressive politics != wtf

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:06 (twenty years ago)

the village people element is kinda wtf though

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:07 (twenty years ago)

Nah, "Hey Ya" is just "eclectic" (or "artsy". or "Beck". or whatever.)

Thing is, the first couple times I heard Big & Rich on country stations (first "Wild West Show," then "Rollin," before I had ever heard of them and before the album came out), I literally DID wonder what the fuck? They still remind me more of Disco Tex and the Sexolettes than anybody on country radio. And yeah, ok, also Beck maybe (Beck who was wtf for five minutes once). But what you describe Durst doing seems pretty post-Beck too, doesn't it? And Durst is acting in a genre where post-Beck shouldn't be a suprise at all.

Who does "pop friendly and progressive politics" refer to???

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 15:08 (twenty years ago)

the B&R album sounds to me like it has a real progressive agenda: everybody's cool, everything's neat, let it all hang out. The funny outfits and all are definitely bizarre and wtf in the context of country radio, but Durst is outright NUTS. He references Zoolander while ANGRY, Beck is way more self-conscious and artiste in his actions. Durst has a tattoo of Elvis and Kurt Cobain on his chest and gets EMO about it.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:13 (twenty years ago)

again wtf should ideally go beyond "I wouldn't have thought of that" (which is where I think Big & Rich usually stops) and into "what the hell are they thinking?"

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:17 (twenty years ago)

xpost

I mean, pop friendly and (apparent but fairly vague) prog politics are the *least* of what's weird about those guys, for crissakes.

"Nuts" is the oldest rock cliche in the book, Anthony. (i.e, Daniel Johnston and Wesley Willis and Syd Barett are not wtf at all. Though Michael Jackson often is, I guess.) Then again, you pay way more attention to Fred Dust than I ever have, so what the hell do I know?

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 15:18 (twenty years ago)

Beck is "you're not as crazy as you think you are," at least post-"Where It's At?".

Then again, you pay way more attention to Fred Dust than I ever have, so what the hell do I know?

exactly. And Fred Durst's music is nuts in a more vibrant, detailed way than Wesley Willis and Daniel Johnston and all that. Plus it's in more of a "Free lunch" vibe than those guys.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:21 (twenty years ago)

plus Durst is waaaay more unpredictable then the folks you mention.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:21 (twenty years ago)

he's more like Michael Jackson (who I referenced way up thread) than Wesley Willis.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:22 (twenty years ago)

>Durst has a tattoo of Elvis and Kurt Cobain on his chest and gets EMO about it. <

I don't get this -- as opposed to getting *what* about it? (And what does it have to do with his music?) (Also, I never saw *Zoolander.* Do you just mean he uses metaphors that don't make any sense?? In songs that's pretty common; in interviews maybe even more so.)

The end of "Real World" makes me wonder what the hell Big and Rich were thinking for sure. Their clothes are really not that big a deal.

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 15:31 (twenty years ago)

also I think your wtf level decreases if you smile and say "aren't we a bunch of silly-billies?" like Big & Rich often do (they're great, though, don't get me wrong). Durst, which is what I was getting at with the tattoo reference, seems to be oblivious to his absurdity (aside from referring to himself as a crazy muthafucka now and then).

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:32 (twenty years ago)

I don't get this -- as opposed to getting *what* about it?
As opposed to conforming to the stereotype of the hard rock frontman, rather than act manly about his tattoos, he turns into a whiny emo-boy.
(xpost)

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:34 (twenty years ago)

http://www.numbertwopencil.net/graphics/dimples.jpg

ihttp://www.numbertwopencil.net/graphics/dimples2.jpg

ihttp://www.numbertwopencil.net/graphics/dimples3.jpg

R.I.P. Richard "Dimples" Fields, 1942-2000

― Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:36 (twenty years ago)

Why does that keep happening? I mean my images showing up as links, not the premature deaths of impossibly smooth yet possibly insane soul singers. That I understand.

― Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:38 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, Jesse, "If It Ain't One Thing It's Another" is wtf for sure.

Andy, since Cobain, almost ALL hard rock people would rather be emo whiners than manly men. Even frigging Metallica, for God's sake.

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 15:39 (twenty years ago)

I mean, do Staind make you say wtf as well??

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 15:40 (twenty years ago)

man I really wish that "Livin' It Up" mp3 was still up over at the stypod.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:42 (twenty years ago)

"Andy, since Cobain, almost ALL hard rock people would rather be emo whiners than manly men. Even frigging Metallica, for God's sake".

how true, we're living in the cuddle-core era!

― Marco Damiani (Marco D.), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:43 (twenty years ago)

I meant Anthony!

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 15:43 (twenty years ago)

but anyway, doesn't durst wear emo band shirts (or at least cure or joy division or whoever ones) a lot, too? seems pretty darn self-conscious to me. (then again, *everybody* is self-conscious. disco tex and the sexolettes definitely knew what the hell they were doing. they bragged on their album about being eclectic, just like b&r do.)

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 15:45 (twenty years ago)

rather than act manly about his tattoos, he turns into a whiny emo-boy
In fact, this example helps in our definitions. That is, there's an element of the unexpected in Durst's actions (as I wrote upthread) but it doesn't draw a "what was he *thinking*???" reaction (as Anthony has written). Rather, as Anthony wrote, Durst is oblivious to his own ridiculousness. This is wtf behaviour.

The ridiculousness point is important, otherwise, something like Bowie's "Low" could be considered wtf (even today, at least to those who had only heard Bowie's earlier stuff).

(xposts)

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:46 (twenty years ago)

chuck you're intentionally avoiding the entire picture, how all this stuff adds up, and focusing on individual elements (yes other people make rap-metal, yes people have been crazy, yes other people make weird associations, yes other people whine). you've admitted you don't pay attention to this stuff so throw on the Chocolate Starfish tell me how its not wtf or move on already.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:46 (twenty years ago)

The question is, does every bad artist that doesn't know he's bad (or *why* is bad) make you go what the fuck? (And obviously, yeah, wtf is a completely subjective thing. But everything you've said about Durst seems pretty normal for his genre, near as I can tell. I guess you're saying the guy is weird, and he has no idea that he's weird. Which is entirely possible. But you've done nothing to suggest *how* he's weird. Seems to me wtf is something requiring proof, not disproof. Which is why details within a context are of utmost importance.)

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 16:05 (twenty years ago)

I mean, Durst is part of a genre that has been trying unonvincingly to prove its weirdness for a couple decades now. (Since, like, the early Chili Peppers or Fishbone or maybe even Funkadelic. All of whom are crazy senstive mumbo-jumbo fungo-mungo punko-funko-metallo mix-and-matchers. And within a context like that, I'm not sure if wtf is even *possible.* At least for me.) (And I mean, even when I *like* the genre, like say a couple Crazytown singles.) So I want you to explain how it's possible for you, in a genre that makes such a big deal (probably deludedly) on having no rules in the first place.

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 16:11 (twenty years ago)

Though then again, maybe I contradicted myself, since I've already pointed out that Disco Tex and Big & Rich make a big deal of having no rules, either. Which while fairly unheard of in b&r's c&w, isn't rare at all in disco. So yeah, this gets pretty complicated, no matter how you slice it. In other words: how come, say, disco and c&w and pop metal and glam and goth metal and doo-wop and girl group and garage rock and hip-hop seem to have an ability to make me ask wtf, but rap-metal and indie rock hardly ever do? Maybe just because I like the former genres more? That's entirely possible, I admit it.

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 16:27 (twenty years ago)

And Funkadelic definitely had some wtf moments, obviously (but their wtf didn't take long to turn into all their descedents' dime-a-dozen.)

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 16:35 (twenty years ago)

Should Wesley Willis be excluded because of his mental illness? Are not the commercial slogan one-liners that he delivers at the end of EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS SONGS a wtf element?

"Since, like, the early Chili Peppers or Fishbone or maybe even Funkadelic. All of whom are crazy senstive mumbo-jumbo fungo-mungo punko-funko-metallo mix-and-matchers. And within a context like that, I'm not sure if wtf is even *possible.*"

There was an L.A. band called Head who put out on album on the Voxx (subsidiary of Bomp) label in 1990 who are definite wtf-ers from this genre.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:36 (twenty years ago)

Chuck:

http://www.asapnokill.org/celebs/Fred%20Durst.jpg

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:39 (twenty years ago)

Adam Sandler's bulldog is cuter. (But bulldogs are *always* cute! I definitely go by the fat stubby dogs who look like they ran face first into walls are the best kind rule.)

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 16:45 (twenty years ago)

are there wtf movies? cuz i nominate phantom of the paradise and body double. brian de palma is kinda the ultimate wtf filmmaker.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:48 (twenty years ago)

chuck you're intentionally avoiding the entire picture, how all this stuff adds up, and focusing on individual elements (yes other people make rap-metal, yes people have been crazy, yes other people make weird associations, yes other people whine). you've admitted you don't pay attention to this stuff so throw on the Chocolate Starfish tell me how its not wtf or move on already.
-- manthony m1cc1o (anthonyisrigh...), September 27th, 2004.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:59 (twenty years ago)

"Wacky" is the genre for bands that think they are WTF - see Red Hot Chilli Peppers videos.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:02 (twenty years ago)

brian de palma is kinda the ultimate wtf filmmaker

he's my favorite filmmaker and I totally disagree. I totally can see why he did what he did. he's way more "I wouldn't have thought of that" than "what was he thinking?"

Now John Boorman, on the other hand...

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:02 (twenty years ago)

good call, Jel! They Might Be Giants are also "wacky."

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:04 (twenty years ago)

Or you can just call them "guys who wear lampshades at parties." (Genre possibly invented by Frank Zappa) (who had his minor uses, now and then.)

― chuck, Monday, 27 September 2004 17:08 (twenty years ago)

Freak Out is easily one of the greatest U.S. rock albums of the sixties.

And wacky bands are not all necessarily deluded numbskulls who think they are wtf but really are not.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:22 (twenty years ago)

come on anthony the musical porno scene in body double is one of the most wtf things i have ever seen! (i heart de palma too ya know)

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:41 (twenty years ago)

WTFCORE = Posh Spice on Rocafella Records.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 27 September 2004 18:03 (twenty years ago)

come on anthony the musical porno scene in body double is one of the most wtf things i have ever seen! (i heart de palma too ya know)

seen Zardoz? sorry i just can't call DePalma wtf. there's so much method that it's not even madness. He's just really inspired.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 18:08 (twenty years ago)

method and madness can co-exist you know!!

dude have you ever seen mission to mars?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 27 September 2004 18:08 (twenty years ago)

yes. and that one's just bad.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 18:12 (twenty years ago)

hahaha wtfcore

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 27 September 2004 18:19 (twenty years ago)

I can't believe no one's mentioned Dip Set, who are like the kings of "wtf" in hip-hop, especially when compared to say G-Unit, who are probably the exact OPPOSITE of 'wtf.'

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:20 (twenty years ago)

Is Mariah Carey wtf as fuck? I say: yes.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:23 (twenty years ago)

Is this about music or persona now?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:39 (twenty years ago)

Mariah Carey's music isn't very wtf.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:44 (twenty years ago)

perhaps the odb remix song, but probably not.

― artdamages (artdamages), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:45 (twenty years ago)

Y'all are right. I got carried away in the moment.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:45 (twenty years ago)

So who's the wtf XTC?

― Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:52 (twenty years ago)

Bobb Trimble.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Monday, 27 September 2004 20:08 (twenty years ago)

Or rather, XTC are the non-wtf Bobb Trimble.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Monday, 27 September 2004 20:09 (twenty years ago)

Thinking about the OMGWTFLOL poll ... almost all of those songs are wtf only in the context of doing a Best of the 90's Poll. Most are not wtf, as we have loosely defined it on this thread.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 27 September 2004 20:29 (twenty years ago)

Great examples of wtf from the poll:

Bryan Adams, Sting & Rod Stewart - All 4 Love
Aerosmith - I Don't Want to Miss a Thing (Aerosmith doing Diane Warren? WTF?)
Frente! - Bizarre Love Triangle
Green Jelly - Three Little Pigs (I'm shuddering just thinking about the stupidity of this record and its video)
Snow - Informer

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 27 September 2004 20:34 (twenty years ago)

BRIAN DE PALMA IS WTF MICCIO IS WRONG.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 27 September 2004 20:46 (twenty years ago)

Wakefield ft. Mary-Kate Olsen - Suffragete City

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0001XAS3K/qid%3D1096324919/sr%3Dka-1/ref%3Dpd%5Fka%5F1/103-4255858-1026219

― bill neil (inabillity), Monday, 27 September 2004 21:43 (twenty years ago)

that is a wet dream of wtf. Wakefield is the best mall-punk band ever btw.

― bill neil (inabillity), Monday, 27 September 2004 22:06 (twenty years ago)

Wakefield's album is pretty great.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 27 September 2004 22:12 (twenty years ago)

I want to see a Pitchfork wtf review of that song. Wakefield needs more exposure.

― bill neil (inabillity), Monday, 27 September 2004 22:26 (twenty years ago)

By these standards most of the double entendre songs of classic blues are proto-wtf. Somebody up thread mentioned Charlie Patton and that's on the mark. Quoth Johnson, "I got a gal and she's long and tall; sleeps in the kitchen with her feet out in the hall. Hot tamales and they're red hot, yes she got em for sale." I mean, wtf?

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 04:01 (twenty years ago)

The new Shania single is pretty wtf. Firstly, it co-features Mark McGrath. Secondly, it's that skank-wanking processed guitar riff that serves as the hook. Unbelievable! And the coyness. The coyness, meant to be de riguer Shania flirty fun (I assume) is intolerable. Thirdly, she has the way about her of a restaurant hostess. Fourth and stuff - Mark's voice has been Muttified.

― Kim (Kim), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 05:25 (twenty years ago)

is buñuel wtf?

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 07:39 (twenty years ago)

Two important Wtf touchstones: Lou Reed-"Orginal Wrapper" and Brian Wilson-"Smart Girls".

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 09:20 (twenty years ago)

Although, Brian Wilson might fall into the Wesley Willis catagory.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 09:20 (twenty years ago)

Shania's blue disc was wtf.

(me to chuck eddy back when i pitched the britney review -- "the sheer wtf factor is through the roof!")

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 12:11 (twenty years ago)

oh you crazy critics

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 15:35 (twenty years ago)

speaking of big and rich and p-funk (see above):

MUZIKMAFIA HOSTS SPECIAL GUESTS THIS TUESDAY NIGHT
For immediate release: September 27, 2004

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Over the last year, the two families have been flirting with the idea of coming together to create an explosion of muzik without prejudice. Due to the cancellation of the House of Blues Orlando engagement caused by Hurricane Jeanne, we are able to offer this last minute treat for Nashville. This is a rare opportunity to see all of this great talent and muzik under one roof, up close and personal. Entrance will be limited to 600. In the spirit of the MuzikMafia, this celebration of musical unity is brought to you free of charge.

The 420 Funk Mob, led by Mike "Clip" Payne featu ring Gabe Gonzalez along with a revolving cast from the legendary Parliament/Funkadelic and All-Star musicians, assaults a crowd with a night of music that crosses all boundaries. This is just what you expect from a band with a line up that has included: Funks George Clinton, Mike "Maggot Brain" Hampton, Garry "Star Child" Shider, and Billy Bass Nelson, Punks Dr. Know and Daryl Jennifer, Greg Fitz from Bootsy's Rubber Band, and Bowie's Zach Alford, as well as Jazz-man Stanley Jordan and bluegrass sensation Eric McFadden.

The purpose of the MuzikMafia is to advance the acceleration of greatness in music by combining creative peoples in a loving, non-territorial, celebratory environment of total respect and acceptance, regardless of genre or format of musical style. Simply, we get together, play music, make art and have fun without limits.

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― chuck, Tuesday, 28 September 2004 15:39 (twenty years ago)

Is the new Nancy Sinatra album WTF?

― Talent Explosion (Talent Explosion), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 15:51 (twenty years ago)

WTZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 15:53 (twenty years ago)

Pat Boone In a Metal Mood: No More Mr. Nice Guy is quintessential wtf.

― bill neil (inabillity), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 16:06 (twenty years ago)

Kitsch revivals of forgotten stars =/ wtf

― chuck, Tuesday, 28 September 2004 16:38 (twenty years ago)

yeah that's too much of a desperate plea for attention to qualify. If he did it for the art and was still wearing that dog collar today then maybe.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 18:50 (twenty years ago)

I realize that, and I would have agreed if I hadn't read the liner notes he wrote. They were so self-consciously ironic that it had me going wtf at his newfound self-conscious irony. Apparently he saw his first metal concert after he had the idea for that album. As if that wasn't enough, the actual music swung rather than Rocked, and still dared to call itself metal. I guess it's a different kind of wtf - more of a "why the fuck does the world allow this? God!" wtf - so I can't call it quintessential, but nonetheless it still gave me a pretty strong wtf reaction.

― bill neil (inabillity), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 19:31 (twenty years ago)

would Metal Machine Music be considered wtf?

― bill neil (inabillity), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 19:43 (twenty years ago)

critics have done a lot to try and erase the inexplicability of Reed's ouvre, but there's still a good bit of juice there. He deserves a nod.

I think there's TONS of wtf on the first two Velvets albums.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 19:47 (twenty years ago)

>the actual music swung rather than Rocked<

I love this dichotomy, even though I don't really understand it!

― chuck, Tuesday, 28 September 2004 19:52 (twenty years ago)

dude, you should talk.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 19:55 (twenty years ago)

I love this dichotomy, even though I don't really understand it!

I meant there was much more brass than guitar.

― bill neil (inabillity), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 20:14 (twenty years ago)

OK, I'll ask, what's wtf about the first two Velvet Underground albums?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 23:52 (twenty years ago)

The mixture of avant-garde, garage and bugfuck spazzoid. Ballads followed by noise followed by gah everything. It's definitely contextual wtf but if taken at face value these albums are nuts.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 00:01 (twenty years ago)

If "Ding-A-Ling" counts than "too busy suckin' on my ding-dong" (on album where half the tracks are about minds being split open) counts.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 00:01 (twenty years ago)

OK then Doors are wtf and Godz are wtf, etc.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 00:03 (twenty years ago)

Yeah I can see the slippery slope that follows the Velvets-as-wtf. I can definitely see the Godz as wtf, but the Doors I'm iffier on (they strike me more as dumb than inexplicable).

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 00:09 (twenty years ago)

this wtf concept is veering quickly into banality

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 00:11 (twenty years ago)

Doors I'd almost want to put in the "not as weird as they think they are" category.

true, am.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 00:11 (twenty years ago)

No fair getting Doors digs in while veering into banality. Doors ruled.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 00:18 (twenty years ago)

"Touch Me" is pretty wtf.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 00:24 (twenty years ago)

esp. in a "Doors Rule" context.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 00:24 (twenty years ago)

There are DIFFERENT "Doors rule" contexts. In some, the greatness of "Touch Me" is recognized.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 00:27 (twenty years ago)

YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER

(wtf)

― The Good Dr. Bill (Andrew Unterberger), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 00:29 (twenty years ago)

'critics have done a lot to try and erase the inexplicability of Reed's ouvre, but there's still a good bit of juice there. He deserves a nod. '

'Vicious
you hit me with a flower
You do it every hour
oh, baby, you're so vicious'

i'd say that's pretty wtf.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 00:56 (twenty years ago)

at least the flower part always struck me so.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 00:57 (twenty years ago)

that's just saying that the supposed viciousness is actually pretty feeble

no wtf

― kit brash (kit brash), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 01:11 (twenty years ago)

this wtf concept is veering quickly into banality

it's only natural. now would be the time where wtf either splits off into subgenres or is discreetly swept under the rug.

― bill neil (inabillity), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 01:11 (twenty years ago)

GAWD WTF IS SO FOUR DAYS AGO!

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 01:14 (twenty years ago)

I foresee Durst searching for inner wisdom and inexplicably finding the impossible: post-wtf. I know he has it in him.

― bill neil (inabillity), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 01:33 (twenty years ago)

GOOD DOCTOR OTM.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 02:36 (twenty years ago)

that's just saying that the supposed viciousness is actually pretty feeble
no wtf

-- kit brash (kitbras...), September 29th, 2004.

yeah but it sounds wtf. wtf is between the lines man as well as on them. like a viscous fluid seeping into the floor or some other half-baked metaphor like that.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 02:43 (twenty years ago)

dammit i need to sleep.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 02:46 (twenty years ago)

In response to the Velvets.. personally I think they WERE wtf but that their wtf-ness has dated. Which punk was it whose first reaction to the banana record was actually "what the fuck?" Iggy? I don't remember. But anyway in that sense you have to admit that in 1967 they definitely were wtf.

― bill neil (inabillity), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 03:13 (twenty years ago)

i don't mean to suggest that the doors were banal, but rather that the category of "wtf" had been rendered so inclusive as to be practically meaningless. not that i think it's a very interesting critical category to begin with bah humbug etc.

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 03:16 (twenty years ago)

The PRODUCTION on White Light/White Heat definitely borders on wtf-ness. Same goes for Raw Power!

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 03:27 (twenty years ago)

Unrelated, but... has anybody had problems accessing the PF website? For some reason it won't load on my computer but works fine when I try from other computers.

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 07:55 (twenty years ago)

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