Now that some time has passed: Lemonheads "It's A Shame About Ray" C/D?

so, Classic

'Nuff said.

those two records ("it's a shame..." and "come on feel...") are among my most played of the last few years. there's something effortlessly brilliant about them. brevity definitely a good thing: what does it matter if an album is over quickly, if it sounds just as great when you flip it over and play it again straight after?

I'm not sure about the description of Juliana Hatfield as "virginal", though.

Also, Lovey is horribly underappreciated.

http://www.blakebabies.com/archive/jul_nme93.htm

I haven't listened to this album in a long time, but I think it is still great. I remember why I haven't got a copy - I had it taped off a friend, then that horrible 'Mrs Robinson' cover got tacked on the end and as a result I refused to buy it. I kept looking in second-hand shops for an original issue, but never found one. God, I had a fascinating youth.

And, like the fact checkin' cuz I have the Lemonheads to thank for discovering the various musical projects of Tom Morgan and Nic Dalton.

Yeah. Aside from the fact that it's condescending and moronic, it also doesn't really make any contextual sense.

I kept looking in second-hand shops for an original issue, but never found one.

Originals fetchin' some kinda extra dough on ebay now or what? That's what I want to know...

Maybe that's the wrong choice of words... Did you intentionally not find issue with my calling it "moronic" as well? Regardless of what was true or not true or whatever, it just leaves an intensely bad taste in my mouth whenever anybody has to drag that out again like it makes a damn difference. In this context especially it's fucked up. Cause it's equated with things that make sense in the context of the actual question being posed:

Q: Is this album any good now that we're distanced from it by some time?

A: Yes.
Reasons:
a) Catchy pop
b) Dumb lyrics
c) Bass player is a skulking virgin

Uhhh. Alright.

i'm also not sure about the characterisation of the lyrics as "dumb" in the original posting. i'll grant that they are seemingly simplistic takes on their subjects, but "rudderless", "kitchen", "rockin' stroll", "the turnpike down" ... geez, the whole thing, are filled with nice insights and observations.

if i can't take issue with the description of juliana hatfield as "virginal" (as was pointed out), then how about "skulking around"? there wasn't much, if any, attempt to hiding her input.

I've no idea who the anon is who started this thread, but I get the distinct impression that he's very much like quite a few folks I met in college radio in the mid 90s...

genius!

genius!

Do you work for Fox News?

Exactly and then some!

i just think it's completely pointless and silly. i was taking issue only with the choice of the word condescending, that's all.

I'm going to start downloading.

I don't think I actually knew that Juliana Hatfield was in the band.

*"Alison's gettin' her tit pierced, Alison's growing a mohawk, Alison's starting to happen to me" ??!!!??

*"Takes me on a rockin' stroll" ???

*Screamed beginning of 'Bit Part'

Those are off the top of my head. How are they not dumb? They are dumb in the best sense of the word, naive and oblivious, but I thought that was implied by the fact I catagorized it as a classic.

As for the virgin and skulking comment:

I read a lot of trash alt. mags in the year I turned fourteen. Every single one of them mentioned Juliana's pristine hymen. As a young woman this fascinated me and made me feel weird about how bad I totally wanted to bone. It seemed like such a surreal rock star quality, that could only be really a selling point for a chick. I mean, M. Faithfull was touted by Loog as fresh out of convent school, later B. Spears, etc.

None of the bands I liked when I was that age had any girls in them
except Sonic Youth, and a cursory look at the cassette sleve to "It's a Shame About Ray" revealed a bunch of dudes sitting around backstage. Then I read the liner notes and Juliana Hatfied is credited. I had to stare at the picture to realize a girl was in it, and I was totally stoked that she was drinking a brew and not wearing a dress. Later, inn press stuff she seemed prominant but wee me did not even notice her on the album. I will say this: skulking may be subjective.

For the record I pretty much thought the record was shit when it came out, and I'm a very big fan of both Juliana and the Lemonheads. For me "Ray" wasn't just the beginning of the end for the Lemonheads. As far as I was concerned, it might as well have been called "Automatic for the People..."

I have listened to the record since, and I do like a lot more of it now. I don't know how much my overall opinion of it is still tainted by negative nostalgia... Probably some even if I won't admit it.

ihttp://julianas.phpwebhosting.com/heavy/pix/pix3/mag10.jpg

It was and is hilarious, shameless, and most importantly, fearless.

my favourite bit on this album: "though it wasn't hard or far, i walked you to your car"..

Right now, I think that's the most interesting thing about this.

Yes.

the cinema in front of which the scene in Hair that contains the song is set

totally classic without Mrs Robinson, of course. the Mrs Robinson single is classic for the b-sides though!

I like the album a lot, and it certainly hinted at a Dando coup d'etat, but it is uneven as fuck.

Question: What's the connection between The Lemonheads and Australia?
I think they recorded Come on Feel in Oz (with Evan Dando having a syring permanently attached to his arm), other than that are there any links? (They mention Oz a lot).

thanks, cuz. 'into yr arms' is not one of my favourite tracks on Come on Feel. I like almost everything on that album. Not to sure about 'The Jello Fund."

'The Jello Fund" = music made on heroiene

Dando did spend some time living in Oz, I think he lived above the Tote Hotel in Collingwood for a while.

see also the Lemonheads Two Weeks In Australia video
and what's more Evan played bass and some drums and BVs on the first album by Tom's third (of four) current band the GiveGoods (video with Evan in, video without)
(he's also on the first Sneeze album and wrote a song on the third)

Bill Gibson played guitar and bass and perc and bvs in Lemonheads (and is now in Sneeze too!), Murph was the drummer at the time. He's gotten up at Sydney shows on the last two Evan solo tours too.

nb. Into Your Arms was written by Robyn Humm!ngb!rd when she was in the Love Positions with Dalton, and wasn't a H'birds song. But R0ck!n' Stro11 off Ray is about her and S!m0n Humm!ngb!rd's then-toddler Mi10 (the video is in fact footage of him in his stroller!)

all 29 minutes of it, or whatever. 'Turnpike down'.just love the tune.

Am I one of the few who actually liked early Lemonheads too? That stuff seemed to get universally dismissed. I'm referring more to the 2nd? Lp (was it Creator?- that fantastic I can't remember the title!) rather than hate yr Friends

and i'll even give props to "mrs robinson", if only because its hit status precipitated probably my all-time favourite top of the pops performance: anyone else remember red furry coat-clad dando's spot-on morrissey impression for the "where have you gone, joe dimaggio/our nation holds its lonely eyes to you...oh no!" line?

Favourite song is Rockin' Stroll (which is only 'dumb' in some bizarro world since the lyrics are from the perspective of a bloody BABY IN A PRAM).

People's knees and trunks of trees... smile at me!

Dang, I miss that 2 Weeks in Oz video ("I've discovered I have a great talent for.. lying down on the ground..") - must try and locate my copy.

...if memory serves. and it mightn't.

Come on Feel...

is MILES better.

Classic album.

I somehow didn't realize that Juliana Hatfield played all the bass, even though I followed the virgin thing as much as any other 17-year-old at the time. I thought she just did some backing vocals.

Anyways- between Ray and Hatfield's Hey Babe, you pretty much got my senior year of high school covered.

It's weird, but I think I've owned and enjoyed every single Lemonheads album besides this one, which seems by all accounts to be the favorite of some and definitely the most popular. All I remember about it are the title track and the lame "Mrs. Robinson" cover. I shall fix this promptly.

No matter how good it turns out to be, though, it won't top Lovey. OMGODDAM is that album amazing.

so does no one other than 'tantrum the cat' really think confetti is far & away the best track on this album??

I know some folks prefer Lovey (the 'crossroads' album) but I always found it patchy and I disliked the rockier tracks (Lil Seed, Ballarat, The Door etc) whereas I love the breeziness, consistency and pure indie-POP thrills of Ray.

^this

I still think "Stove" on Lovey is untouchably great.

I like about half the songs on Lovey and that is one of them.

I still think "Stove" on Lovey is untouchably great.

-- Alex in NYC, Monday, October 1, 2007 12:40 PM (1 hour ago)

Well - that makes two of us ... I tear up every time.
Here's another reason to tear up - I don't own a copy/burn/etc. of 'Lovey' - I can never find a copy at the record store - looks like this post may influence me to go to amazon and buy one of the money used copies.

I think "Rudderless" and "Bit Part" are my favorites.

The trick is that Dando and Hatfield both sound best when the music stays plain and strummy and just cruises along behind them; they both sound cool, calm, and collected, but in a way that lets the songs move a lot. Half the songs on this album do that Dando thing where he sings the first verse in his calm lower voice, then picks things up by singing the same thing a register higher. You'd think this would be lame, but it always always works. (In "Rudderless" he seems like he's trying to do it twice, so a bunch of lines -- "slipped my mind that I could use my brain" -- are kinda straining at how far he can go without having to leap up again.)

The new Lemonheads record from this year was not bad! It was maybe too big on the guitar stuff to recapture that ... gracefulness that Ray has, but if you happen to be a Dando-lover, it's got that "pleasant visit from old friend" quality.

Funny, when I think about why those two songs are my favorites, the first bits I think of are the vocal jumps! The one in "Bit Part" really gets me.

This genre rarely fails. This album doesn't either. Even though there are at least 100 powerpop albums that are way better.

It's kinda powerpop without the power, though -- a lot like Australian indiepop/twee, which people never really call "powerpop." I think, umm ... the "power" part of that is what differentiates this record from, say, something like the Posies' Frosting on the Beater.

Without the power? I would rather say the problem about some early 90s powerpop such as Lemonheads and Posies is there is too much power, in a very grunge-ey way.

At this time, powerpop went in two different directions, and I feel the direction started by Jellyfish is a lot more faithful to Powerpop's roots and ideals. That is, unless you look upon Cheap Trick as the one and only blueprint.

Geir, you should listen to this new band Vampire Weekend.

haha, the band that made Geir's brain explode

powerpop has roots and ideals? who knew?!

the record is way more folky than powerpop.

Folky/twee! I can't think of things as "powerpop" unless they have some kind of nervy teenage energy in them. This is just all "I have been listening to lots of strummy Australian bands." I'm surprised Randall Lee isn't on it.

On the strummy Aussie tip, I didn't even know until a couple years ago that "Into Your Arms" was a Love Positions cover.

they've called it 'pop underground' since about 1990.

anything with robyn st. clare will kill evan dad-rock.

And, ummm, 'loveBUZZ', by The Hummingbirds, does everything Evan Dando ever did at his best, 10 x better.

That's just a tip. I love the Lemonheads, but, um. . .

i dig lots of posts here, though! ah, nabisco's a good writer. wish i could just contribute a bit more here. wish we could still ysi. i'm telling you, get that hummingbirds album on slsk or something. it's oop, anyway.

Do The Hummingbirds at least have a bit of a kick? The Love Positions stuff is so delicate it really stresses me out.

YES!

It's a standard rock set-up, ya know. Ummm. . .

simon from the hummingbirds fancied himself as a bit of a guitar hero so yeah there's kick, as much as mitch easter tried to gloss it out of them

This just came up in a conversation with a friend the other day. Strange.

I don't need any time to pass to say how much I detested it.

I liked the other guy in the Lemonheads (discussed in some other thread here, I never can remember his name but someone always does) and I was into their Taang releases.

I promised my friend I would listen to it again.

THis album is fucking terrible. No passion, no power, no tunes. Just a style. See Pavement had all of those. These guys were like a slightly hipper Buffalo Tom. The only song they wrote with a decent tune was Mrs Robinson.

The only song they wrote with a decent tune was Mrs Robinson.

Can we assume that's a joke?

Also, comparing The Lemonheads to Pavement is a little bit WTF

the only thing they have in common is that they both played in australia about a zillion times

These guys were like a slightly hipper Buffalo Tom.

i don't necessarily disagree with this, but then i love buffalo tom

These guys were like a slightly hipper Buffalo Tom.

this is so wrong... don't know where to begin.

All I remember about it are the title track and the lame "Mrs. Robinson" cover. I shall fix this promptly.

if you haven't picked up from this thread, Mrs Robinson isn't really part of the album, and should not be included if you're ripping this for listening.

Just got back from seeing them perform It's A Shame About Ray in Sydney. Jesus they were incredibly tight and Dando's voice was in pitch perfect form. After playing the album in full, they pretty much did every other great song they're known for. People were dancing and everyone was singing along.....one of the best gigs I've ever been to. So much love <3

i would have gone to that show if i were home.