I really, really dislike Ultragrrl [edited title - mod]

...
not really. I honestly do get extremely violent urges whenever I see an image of Ultragrrrl.

http://ultragrrrl.blogspot.com/

why does this warrant "shooting in the face"?

at least pick on somebody more deserving. and "shooting in the face" is just needlessly nasty and cruel sounding!

x-post

I think she's okay. She's not *my type*. She loves Soulwax a little too much for my liking, but other than that, she seems fun. Why the hate? The comments on her blog are really crazy. does she still write for Spin?

It's been a while since I've checked out the science section of Yahoo! and to my luck, when I finally did, I found out about a new dinosaur exhbit at the American Museum of Natural History in New York. The exhibit called Dinosaurs: Ancient Fossils, New Discoveries, appears to focus on the new evidence that suggests that some dinos had feathers and wings and were way more birdlike than previously thought. For even the most basic of science nerd wannabes like myself, the knowledge that dinos and birds are closely related is old news, but it appears that this exhibit probably probes deeper inside this, and shows new evidence and theories. My friend Dave (who is in town to perform on monday at Lit as The Lost Weekend -- he sounds a bit like Nick Cave and surprisingly great -- and if you're from LA you might know him as Hardcore Dave from Swingers) and Brian have both already agreed to come with me to the exhibit, and if I can about 10 others it'll be like a reinactment of the class trip I took to the museum as a kiddie. I wonder if the dinosaurs will seem as big -- probably since I grew only about 4 inches since then.

her music taste is questionable to say the least but how could you actively wish violence upon her?

Her book cover makes her worthy of disembowelment.

i reserve shooting in the face for people who are, y'know, actually evil.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/082232184X.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

Then again, people send me free stuff, and I do things like post pictures of Chinese bridal parties, so it's most likely everyone involved is just deluded rather than actively evil.

-- breezy (breezypoint7...), June 7th, 2005

"oh, too malicious"

on the mark/on the money

Not as vile as that one site that kept calling her "Jewish" as an insult. And not even in a funny way!

(Does anyone have a copy of this and feel like posting some gems?)

What are we talking about again?

I actually intened at SPIN in 1989, and my then-boss (if you can call her a boss, being that I wasn't getting paid or anything....just ripping off tons of SPIN "sportswear" and albums that Legs McNeil wasn't going to touch with a ten foot barge pole) had a similar sort've aesthetic as Ultragrrrl. She'd fawn and swoon over bands like the Wonder Stuff, Ned's Atomic Dustbin, EAT, Kingmaker, etc. etc. I mean, I liked these bands as well -- but evidently for very different reasons (while I thought he was dead cool at the time, I harbored no desire to get in Miles Hunt's trousers). She later moved onto another job that dealt more with TV/movies and applied the same sort've approach there (and seemingly completely lost interest in music).

In re-reading this, I'm realizing that I'm sounding like a pompous, sexist rock snob (I know...SHOCKAH!). Liking bands primarily because you want to sleep with them just seems kinda shallow and stupid to me.

Moreover, the whole premise of her book (not that I've read it, mind you) just sort've smacks of striving to make the right IMPRESSION. It's like those Rolling Stone guides from about a decade back (remember them? They were sized like a compact disc). They'd espouse albums seemingly solely for folks who just wanted to have the "right" discs on their shelves, so when people came over, they'd say: "Ooh, Gerald, you're so ecclectic! You have LL Cool J AND Slint!"

Then again, I haven't read her book: Maybe she talks more about resources with which to find out about new and or obscure music, as opposed to musicians who are really cute and shaggable. But I doubt it.

A Too Much Joy song comes to mind.

On VH1 right now, SPIN's Sarah "Ultragrrrl" Lewitinn just called Eminem's "Lose Yourself" one of "the greatest pop songs....EVER!"

I didn't actually say I wanted to shoot her out of a poop canon, but I did say she made me want to blow up the world....which is still more or less true. That said, this thread did devolve into a discussion about her arguable "chunky troll legs," which seemed a bit offsides.

No, it doesn't. I think the girls in BOND are entirely sexy and shaggable and whatnot, but I'd sooner suck a car's muffler than actively listen to their music.

Aren't you confusing liking a band and liking their music?

Well, you don't have to listen to their music. Who are BOND? I thought you were talking about the film franchise for a moment.

Jes sayin'.

There are lots of idiots on ILM.
-- Cool Hand Luuke (showroo...), June 8th, 2005.

There are lots of idiots on ILM.
-- Cool Hand Luuke (showroo...), June 8th, 2005.

There are lots of idiots on ILM.
-- Cool Hand Luuke (showroo...), June 8th, 2005.

There are lots of idiots on ILM.
-- Cool Hand Luuke (showroo...), June 8th, 2005.

There are lots of idiots on ILM.
-- Cool Hand Luuke (showroo...), June 8th, 2005.

There are lots of idiots on ILM.
-- Cool Hand Luuke (showroo...), June 8th, 2005.

There are lots of idiots on ILM.
-- Cool Hand Luuke (showroo...), June 8th, 2005.

There are lots of idiots on ILM.
-- Cool Hand Luuke (showroo...), June 8th, 2005.

There are lots of idiots on ILM.
-- Cool Hand Luuke (showroo...), June 8th, 2005.

There are lots of idiots on ILM.
-- Cool Hand Luuke (showroo...), June 8th, 2005.

There are lots of idiots on ILM.
-- Cool Hand Luuke (showroo...), June 8th, 2005.

(Hahaha Nick Sylvester to thread to agree/disagree with that?)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0001ZDKAQ.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000C3ICL.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Isn't liking the music of a band the primary reason for liking a band?

and really, faster than anyone. thats what everyone's reacting to. its an interesting phenomenon, how generation y is becoming the voice of the establishment, rather than something that is traditionally mistrusted. [see: raised by bees for some more thoughts on this]

i did an interview with her for rockpile and she was nothing but friendly and incredibly insightful. in fact, she had a whole lot to say and i had to edit it down to fit the word count. perhaps ill post the entire interview to my blog.

boo, jealousy makes you uglier.

furthermore, isnt a bit hypocritical for guys to hate on her because of this behavior? its not as if men have never made some sort of suggestive comments regarding female musicians. as much as the men of ILM like to pretend they're sitting around being a stoic, meaningful and shit, its not like they're any better.

of course, this brings out another interesting point, a whole 'nother can of worms, about why its acceptable for girls to talk about male figures in music in terms of their sexuality/attractiveness and why its considered predatory when men do it towards women. but im not any sort of qualified academic/feminist/etcetcetc to really discuss this.

hahaha bbbut we're wrangling with Thee Important Musical Issues of Our Tyme!

My friend pulled me over to an SL DJ night, cause she had to drop off a demo, cause evidently SL's trying to start a label??

What the fuck does race have to do with this?

I don't begrudge her "strong work ethic", etc. I just wish the things she had to say -- regardless of how blindingly intelligent she might be -- had a bit more substance to them.

Turning this into a gender battle is (a) so predictable and (b) so boring.

And as for the issue of a double standard.. I don't think there is one. I'm sure no one like's Annie's music soley because she's 'hot,' and if they did I'm sure it would be frowned upon, much like liking The Killers or whatever because you want to fellate Brandon Flowers is frowned upon.

and yet, thats what it is. so quit trying to deny it.

The hot parties are in Soho now?

Duh, where have you been?

The thing that annoys me about her is that, no doubt, her book is chock full of bands and music that I probably really really like and have invested hours and hours of time listening to and reading about -- and yet one gets the impression that she heard or read about some band (let's say Gang of Four or Talk Talk or whatever it may be), downloaded a few mp3s, gave them enough spins to sense that it's cool music, and now seems to be saying, "Hey look what I found!" It's the whole indie fanzine trend where you attain legitimacy simply by having an opinion and expressing it in a ultra-casual and usually sarcastic manner.

But hell, if there's lists in the book I'll pull it off the shelf at Barnes & Noble and read it in one sitting, so who knows what the hell I'm talking about....

Hyperbole? Sarcasm?

Surely it wouldn't have this many replies if it were simply named "I dislike Ultragrrl."

and yet, thats what it is. so quit trying to deny it.

It's not about gender, it's about the individual. You don't see Ann Powers or Lorraine Ali or Jenny Eliscu writing like Ultragrrl do you? Jesus, come down off your soapbox.

"Gimme Shelter" the song or the film? Either way, it ain't dumb. I'm not sayin' it's "important" (few rock songs....or documentaries about rock events, for that matter....are), but it ain't dumb.

i thot they nailed jesus to a cross, not a soapbox?!!?

Well, he had to step up on a soapbox to get on the cross. Have you ever seen a crucifix, Stence? Those fuckers are tall.

The more I think about this, what bothers me about the critic gender roles is that this opposition's being set up -- Chuck has done this most baldly, I think -- this opposition between rockism and credibility-talk on one hand and young women on the other. And I think that's a bit of a dangerous knee-jerk thing to set up, no matter how natural it may seem to some people's sense of things. Most dangerous of all, maybe, for young women who do aspire to traditional Serious Critical Credibility roles, and find themselves somewhat pinched by a different young-woman casting model.

I actually don't think this is true nabisco. In some ways this is a total perception issue. The first-persony things run by guys just aren't *seen* as young & frothy etc, even when they're doing essentially the same thing.

BTW, who has heard and likes BOND? They seem like lots of fun!

also, i still find scenesterism not my cup of tea & since i'm fairly unaware of ultragrrrl and scenesters in general (as i just turn off and steer clear) i'm wondering if there aren't like a thousand guys who do the same thing she does anyway? i mean obv not exactly the same thing, but almost the same thing, except without the "cute band" thing, or maybe with just even a different codeword for cute like "cool" or"hip" or whatever?

Never read Ultragrrl's website, never seen it before this thread, in fact, but those pictures from the party were something else. Everyone so made-up and nice looking. Made me feel like a wart-encrusted 90-year old guy who lives in a cave (but lives happily, I should add). Until I saw those photos I always thought this story was a hoax:

http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/shopping/fashion/columns/look/11714/

Wait, do people think I *tell* writers to write "edgy young-person personal-experience reviews"? Where do they get that idea? I don't know how first-person a review is gonna be until it's turned in to me! What is stopping male writers from writing them (when they don't, I mean -- some guys do, but as Sterling says, maybe nobody notices)?

I just died a little.

So am I actually a man dressed as a woman or is it vice versa? As much as I don't hate her - what a strong feeling - I really couldn't care less for her writings. It's just devoid of anything I can cling to. I wouldn't ever type nastiness in her comment boxes, but I understand why some people do this. It's just so superficial the way she writes. She acknowledges it, but it's still superficial. She represents the hip chick (or dude, I don't care about gender), I'm allergic to. In a way I dislike her because she's sort of catering to the cliches that some men have against "rock chicks". Maybe I'm just running too much away from that - there's nothing wrong with liking a band because they look cute or whatever - but I just don't relate to her at all. I agree with Nabisco, she reminds me in some ways of Chuck Klosterman. I wish I could write as well as them; but with some depth to it. Maybe I'm jealous because she brushes off all the criticism and just does what she wants. Who knows. But y'know what, whatever, I still don't like her. No need to shoot her with a poop canon to Uranus or where-ever, she lives far enough from me. ;-)

I'd love to know how I do this, as well. What utter horseshit.

"I also follow women’s fashion—it’s always been an interest of mine."

Hollerzzzz, it's your boy Nick Catchdubs on the ones and twos!

xp

It’s a more hard-core form of rock music

Yes. Yes it is.

And Blount, I've explained repeatedly on this board that that website-editor-assigned Bright Eyes blog (which I've yet to read) had not a damn thing to do with my "stewardship". Why do keep pretending you haven't read me say that? (Have no idea what "blogs: get with it" piece you're referring to either. If you're gonna keep whining about the music section, it melt help if you stick to the music section.)

xp

Plus please stop asking whether I've ever read your section: I do have a few slightly-better things to do with my life than make up opinions about things I've never read. I don't want to talk names with you, either, since I know too many of your younger writers socially. Just happened to notice that particular dynamic at play on those pages a few times, and you're of course more than welcome to ignore me if you really think I'm wrong.

if i wanna live vicariously thru something, a laundry list of names of ppl. i don't know and whom all look sorta the same hardly seems like the most obvious choice.

By the way, am I the only one that imagines that Kathleen Hanna is waiting for Ultragrrrl somewhere in an alley with a pointy stick? Or does the extra "r" mean something new, exciting, and different?

further discussion here:
stupid nasty ultragrrl thread

Your gold cable post made me snort coffee up my nose, by the way.

In a way that's the great thing about NYC. It seems sometimes like literally anyone can pop up out of nowhere and be in the midst of a lot of cool things without a lot of effort. That said, the whole scenester blog thing annoys the shit out of me because it's all so advertorial and self-congratulating. How special can you be when Jane Schmoe, 17 year old non-blogger, was at the same party as you without having to kiss ass and write hundreds of words about how great it was afterwards to get the next invite?

er sumpin.

*bows*

Rah, Candicissima! (I like yer posts and that you're around, if you don't mind my saying.)

Well, it seems like SL is merely taking advantage of the fact that she is in NYC and has access to the scene. On sort of the flipside, one of the things that's most interesting and valuable Fargo Rock City is Klosterman's perspective as a rural North Dakota teen miles away from the bands he worships.

http://www.ashleywald.com/Livejournal/LivejournalUsage/JonnyGreenwoodBirthday.jpg

"...there's lots of dancing, lots of high spirits and happiness. I mean, how many parties have DJ who keep a bottle of booze at the DJ booth for anyone to take swigs of? We just want people to have a good time and make out and be happy. Fuck!"

I don't get any sense that she's aspiring to any level of rock criticism whatsoever. She's young, she's on the scene, she's having fun, she writes about it. How can I hate on that?

x-post

This is a good idea! Thanks Ultragrrrl!

Ultragrrl sounds like John Olson! Dude!

http://www.olats.org/pionniers/pp/stockhausen/images/1956StockWien.jpeg

Rockin' the analogue synth scene:

http://www.stockhausen.org/ks_1972.jpg

(Of course, I'm waiting for the Susie Ibarra calendar myself.)

ben

It's just that most of us who post of ilm are probably a bit odd...

http://wizardishungry.com/no/OLSEN%20COMIC%20BW%20SM.jpg

i don't venture to guess what ultragrrl is like as a person, but i know that i'm uncomfortable with the crowd/scene she's involved with. the idea of style over substance offends something in me, probably because i'm overly concerned with substance, authencity, all that rockist nonsense. the scenesters would look down on me for my record collecting, strange tastes, and general geekiness [bad fashion sense, hours trolling internet message boards, etc] while i can look down on them for being overly concerned with knowing so-and-so and going to the right parties [or for fawning over the cute drummer, whatever]. in other words, ILM kids are supposed to dislike Ultragrrl; she plays for the other team.

I don't think this is true for alot of musicians I know, certainly not for myself.

I didn't mean that as a "oh I'm so pure of heart", it's just...I'm 30. Married. Day job that I'm very commited to. So, playing rock music for me is probably kind of like how some people are in a softball league. Or paint in their spare time. Or garden. It's certainly never going to get me sex, drugs, or money....I guess maybe Kid means people that really think they are going to "make it"...I've never really thought that....

xpost, not related to matt

"wagwan. me be here with ultra gir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir ir el."

Love you guys. You are each beautiful in your own way.

But as far as SL being a cute starfucker with a paid gig to write about it, it's an enviable way to live as a twentysomething.

- interned at abc.com, spin.com, sonicnet.com, ivillage.com, inside.com
- worked a variety of marketing & management gigs
- assistant in VH1's development & news programming departments
- managed my chemical romance, stellastarr*
- worked at assistant editor at spin; left earlier this year to focus on her book & record label.

i have many other thoughts on this thread's developments but cannot comment until i do my classwork.

Unfortunately, the music of the last few years is mostly garbage. Music fans have been forced to keep themselves interested in the art form by engaging in music-themed activities which actually have little to do with music appreciation itself: "blogging", "guest DJs", "afterparties", "secret shows", etc. If today's artists and their records were really so captivating, these people wouldn't have the desire to turn off the stereo to do anything else.

If you're looking for someone to blame, blame modern musicians for failing to make music which can stand alone on its merits, rather than rising to prominence solely because of the marketing effort behind them. Don't blame someone who's making due with what she has.

> We wouldn't have time nor desire to wonder what the musicmakers look like<

Yes, those were the days.

"Sex?"
"No thanks. I'm listening to Elvis."

But, I mean, we're allowed not to like people for our own personal and maybe not always logical reasons, right? So yaaay not liking Ultragrrrl, yay not liking Ultragrrrl. I don't personally, for the same reason I hate lots of people.

Doesn't the resume Maria posted undercut this whole approach to considering her work, though?

For the nachos?

-- Ned Raggett (ne...), June 9th, 2005 12:49 AM. (later) (link)

A good point, definitely, but isn't most of her notoriety from her blog--which is about going out and having fun (oh, and music)? I mean, she is mostly known by her internet nickname or handle or whatever you kids are calling it.

For my part, I would much rather than the fame level Ultragrrrl has be applied to, say, my friend Jen, an extremely dedicated music journalist who years ago at UCI, where I first knew her, took to working in radio, in show managing and booking and many other areas of the music business in a local campus context precisely so she could feel more authoritative in her writing and work, and I think she's a truly fine writer, then and now (and more besides, as she does much work for MTV and VH1 as a regular news producer/writer). But if wishes were horses, etc.

I agree entirely. Late to thread as always, but a big Hell Yeah from me.
Why the hell can't we figuratively speak of random acts of violence against someone as annoying as THAT. I don't know about you, but if you can read that blog for more than 30 seconds at a time, you're a better man than I...because in my head I can hear her talking, and it's like, "whatEVerrr, ohhhhMAHGAHD, and he's so cool cos he's like so shy and stuff?" and I can even SEE the rising inflections in the way she writes for god's sake, and I'm only human and I want KILL HER! I don't even read this glop regularly and I can't stand her. Plus she leaves in her spelling mistakes & little [sp?] queries because she's too lazy to correct it and that makes me angry. I'm allowed to get angry about stuff that doesn't matter because, well, I enjoy it. so do many others here. leave them to their figurative cache of weapons & torture devices -- it's really very therapeutic.

xpost: and ned, that's exactly why I'd blow up Ultragrr. To leave room for someone who can actually write something I'd want to read :)

Without trying to sound *too* flippant, I do think that some of the support on this thread for Ultragrrrl seems to fall in line with 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' (comparative example might be supporting Crazy Frog to beat Coldplay because you hate Coldplay rather than like, or have even heard, Crazy Frog). But that said I don't sense an overwhelming love for her as a writer much here! Melissa's take:

I like reading what she writes in moderation. I like fangirl enthusiasm. It almost makes me want to like the bands she likes.

...strikes me as the strongest positive assessment, and even that's not exactly glowing!

We all have our little secrets.

I'm 19! :D (really.)

Taking what you've said into consideration, I'll just generally say that a lot of the annoyance many of us 'round here might be feeling is probably due to the fact that Ultragrrl and those like her are kind of invading our geeky sovereign territory. People who go outside...writing ON THE INTERNETS??!

As for "taking care" of Ultragrrrl...I vote we cut out the faces on all her pictures of the Killers and other fabulously good-looking bands and replace them with pictures of the ugliest rockers we can think of. I nominate (though I love him so) Mark E. Smith.

First they came for the hot boy bands, and I said nothing!

I personally just have a distaste for people who write columns like this, be they old or young or whatever, the inserting of oneself into "glamorous" circumstances, the cute-cool title, the pictures of oneself with of-the-minute-rawk-stars, etc, etc, etc. If it turned out that she'd made it all up I'd like it more. I dunno.

Look, I'm not saying all rock journalism has to be high fucking art, but Ultragrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl drags everything down to a dingbat TigerBeat level. And that sucks. Period.

Should I post my resume now?

Also, anyone whose column was once called "Making Out With Ultragrrrl" can't be accused of undermining serious music criticism. It's the opposite: I take more of an issue with the fact that the "I'm just in it to have fun/fuck stars" stance is, in fact, a false facade for a rather well-tended-to career!

Is it just because she is marketable? "Give the people what they want?" Really, out of pure interest, does she have an incredible passion for the music and this is just...what she is good at? What was your impression, Maria?

ihttp://www.nypress.com/18/13/news&columns/20.jpg

20. Sarah Lewitinn (aka Ultragrrrl)
Socialite, Blogger

Would some thin-wristed shoe-gazing bass player please hurry up and fuck this girl? Once confined to her ultra-vapid sycophantic hipster blog Ultragrrrl, Sarah Lewitinn has somehow parlayed her love for wimpy bands and kitsch into a career as a record promoter and talking head about—two guesses—wimpy bands and kitsch. Lewitinn's Spin column, "Making Out with Ultragrrrl," chronicled her giving numerous bands ego-handjobs back stage as she drunkenly hung on them, making funny rock-star poses. Spin came to its senses and killed the column, but Ultragrrl never went away—it keeps popping up in stories in the Voice and the Times about prom parties and DJ-spinning circle-jerk events. Take this Times quote about the weekly Misshapes party: "'Last week's was the best one ever,' said Sarah Lewitinn, 24, a writer for Spin who on a recent Saturday evening was wearing a vintage Joy Division T-shirt as a dress over slouchy black suede boots. 'I made out with three boys and one girl.'" We think we'll Ultrahurrrl.

Still, I'd say there were on the money here.

And although I kind of half-noted it earlier, I really would be interested in knowing what the difference between a "scenester" and a "groupie" is. If the mitigating factor is only starfucking, then I think my point is proven.

and hstencil, yr right, it WOULD be fun to get lifted w/ her. if only for the moment when 'Beasters' kick in and she can't say anything cuz she's too busy laughing at the sound of her mind...
or something else equally amusing. like an overheard comment that has nothing to do w/ anything.

i dunno, it's all just silliness. i find myself for and against her stuff. for the fun of it, against what it is she seems to be 'into'.

i suppose if i was a true critic type, i'd find her to be the neophyte that got lucky sorta deal...
maybe not.

maybe it's all....A DREAM!

ow. I think I gave myself an embolism...

Still, I'd say there were on the money here.

-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), June 9th, 2005.

yeah, Dirty Sanchez was kinda great.

Yeah but Matt, in the paper/rock/scissors game of life, enthusiasm does not beat talent.

oh but it does. im sure most people on this thread have a work related tale of how an asskisser type got the job they deserved. im sure every time UG pops up in a column or gets a book offer, they remember the sting of rejection.

if we seek authenticity from our writers / promoters / etc etc, what does it mean when we have the real deal and its not good enough? here's an example: say we have someone working in fundraising. they're great at crunching numbers and all the administrative / conceptual work that the job entails, but when it comes to talking to potential donors they lack any sort of charisma or ability to sell the organization they're working for. that could harm the company more than anything else.

of course, im arguing that charm, or in a broader sense, aesthetics is what we're drawn to. you cant fall in love with a C chord. anyone can play it. the manner in which its put together, in context with other chords and sounds, the style in which it is presented that attracts or detracts an audience.

certain kinds of bands present themselves as being more attractive to us than others, the same can be said for anyone working in the music industry. i mean, why does a band choose one manager over another, even if they are providing identical services? aesthetics and self-preservation, thats all.

anyway, i dont see anything wrong with her enthusiasm. in fact, its quite welcome. what's compelling about her is the ability to combine the fangirl, which is normally viewed as just another brick in the wall, with the promoter/etc who can put those bricks together and build something out of it. philadelphia sucks because everyone here sits around finding new ways to be horrifically shitty to each other. maybe that makes us more "real" but it certainly doesnt make for a quality situation. [if you think im kidding i can supply a lot of evidence.]

of course, the reason why everyone does that is because a) we're terrified of people with ambition as we lack it in our daily lives and b) this city's educational system has rendered everyone with a junior high mentality. but geez, i thought it was just philly. seems like when it comes to this stuff, it sounds as if no one's grown out of their training bra just yet. i mean, y'all talk about how she's co-opting YOUR blog scene. i mean, fuck you. was it ever really yours? and why does something have to belong to one side or another? what makes the internet amazing [and equally scary, at times] is the array of voices that can be heard, especially in music -- from the rock and roll glitterati to the pasty faced collector scum who steals all the good records from me at princeton record exchange.

to move away from that... i agree with matt -- she's a talented promoter. as someone who does book shows, this isnt an easy thing to attain. it gets very easy to shoot yourself in the foot by saying the wrong thing or failing to build up the right partnerships and the fact that she's done neither is noteworthy. the biggest promoter here, this guy that does making time, this is what made him huge.

and you know, you cant hate someone because even they acknowledge their weaknesses. she admits to being a weak writer, im sure thats why she focuses on the promoting end of things.she knows how to reach people and that will be the reason why her label will succeed beyond everyone's expectations.

i think because she embodies everything that is valued and reviled in the industry, she might be more authentic than anything else of this time period.

The attention/press she gets it's astonishing, the ability to work those things to her advantage is certainly a skill. To a lesser degree I've gotten crap for my own "self-promoting" nature, where I've always felt that so long as you go about with integrity, there's no shame in playing some of the games many would call "scenester". It's simply a case of being excited about whatever interests you, finding ways to share that, influencing/inspiring people through that excitement, and in return, well you get something back. Believe it or not, it is possible to be out there, to make connections, etc, and not be a scum bag. It's to her credit that despite all the shit people are throwing at her, it's got nothing to do with any of the usual back-stabbing, shit-talking slimyness that is usually assoociated with such scenesterism.

HOWEVER, as a promoter, well, I don't like 90% of the music her or most of the blog community that she is part of promote. Is she responsible for their success? Or is their success responsible for her(success?) To get so excited about relatively mediocre bands and to influence others to also get excited when they're actively looking to get excited, and yet well, I simply don't always understand the lack of critical capability. I mean, some of these bands are just clearly not very good. Now, I'm not knocking doing that, it has it's place, for every Sarah there's (obviously) a boatload of people who are interested in the same things she is, and she is but one outlet for that. More power to all of them. But being into a style of music that is trendy and foisting these bands to kids, it's kinda like shooting fish in a barrel, no?

Now perhaps I'm jealous of that? That she has an audience? I brought the Nightingales to NYC for the first time and could barely get 20 people to show up. Am I bad promoter? There were flyers in every store in NYC. It was mentioned in the papers with overwhelmingly positive interest. Etc etc. But the community simply wasn't there, and I was unable to excite one. I was unable to create the amount of interest I hoped. If NYC was filled with people truly excited about obscure UK post-punk bands, and I handed them one, would that be a good deed? Sure. Would that make me a great promoter?

And while I"m off on this tangent, let me explain another issue that exists, at least here in NYC, and this opens many cans filled with many worms, so don't even bother following up with the usual arguments!(we've heard them all before...) And while some of you may disagree with the following statements, and some may fail to see the relevance, just take this as one persons opinion, informed or otherwise.

Certain aspects of nightlife and culture are dominated by youth. Always have been and always will be. Now 5 or 6 years ago the kids running around all seemed to be "mod" and into Northern Soul, or wanna be Rolling Stones and Johnny Thunders. At some point between now and then, the focus shifted to a more new wave aesthethic. Shout and Tiswas gave way to Misshapes and Cut. The kids all started wearing Joy Division Unknown Pleasures t-shirts, but now they usually cut off the sleeves. Where is everyone else? The people who grew up with house music in the charts are in their late 20s/30s. They are not going out every night in great numbers. The press is excited by whatever it is they see "the kids" doing and being interested in. And that, for a large part, is what Misshapes and Ultragrrl represent. The exact nature(and quality) of the music is secondary. And those of us trying to co-exist in this community, in this case NYC, or in the general world, we have to deal with this. Sometimes we live in harmony and sometimes we don't. And because of the attention that is focused on that, we have to see ourselves in relation to that.

I'm not defending the people who would express hatred toward her or misshapes or anyone because while I understand the sources of frustration, I simply don't think that makes it ok. Like, because she's a public figure she's not a real person. Look, it upsets me that Spin would give space to anyone who would write about music I don't find interesting (I miss the Byron Coley days...), but you have to get mad at Spin, and say about Sarah, good for her.

man, sorry, as usual when I write something this long it's totally stream o' consciousness and I'm not making any of the points I'm intending to and contradicting myself, etc. I'm definately in the camp of leaving it all alone, but like Mike A or whomever above said, it's sad that this much attention would be paid to her as a tastemaker instead of say, others who basically do the same exact thing, in a similar way, but who have, in my mind, better taste. (I say in my mind, but I guess in my mind, I'm arrogant enough to think taste, to a small degree, can be objective.)

back to the question of promoting "skill"...I just don't see it, I don't see her creating anything like Making Time. I'd like to give credit whre credit is due, I just don't give a lot of weight to the idea that "promoting" in a case like hers is a great skill. I takes diplomacy, sure, and the maturity simply not to fuck people over. Those are admirable traits. And making a career out of it, well that's fantastic. But I think her success has as much to do with simply getting along with people. I mean, the little press I've gotten, I can usually attribute somehow to some sort of "it's who you know" situation. Not always! Now let's give more credit to Dave P. and Justine D., who as promoters know what to deliver to "the kids" and at the same time decide it's worthwhile to book snobs like me at the same time because they think it's worth supporting what we do. But the sad truth is they likely wouldn't have been able to build their empires on the backs of my records. That's why I'm in the basement. blah blah fucking blah. Sorry, it's late and I'm tired. I've got what I think are a lot of multi-faceted ideas about all of this and am finding it increasingly difficult to express them, and as often perhaps confuse my own personal feelings on such matters with a general consensus.

eh, the real issue is who's gonna publish "dan selzer's ultimate guide to the ultimate music library."????

I'd certainly like to see Dan succeed in the same way Ultragrrrl has (although, from where I'm sitting, he seems to be doing OK for himself!), but I disagree that the turn to this type of scene was in any way preordained. It just sorta looks that way from where we're sitting.

But then maybe I'm one of the people that Dan's complaining about, hahaha.

I think that the quality of the bands Sarah pushes is totally besides the point - her skill seems to be this ability to pick the right bands that will actually catch on within her scene and cross over into the mainstream. That's obviously way more valuable to the establishment than, say, Dan having really great taste that few people share, or the way roughly one out of every 50 obscure artists that I post on my site ends up getting some minor buzz that translates to slightly above average sales in terms of indie label expectations.

Some of the talk about promotion here would ring more bells for me if it were prefixed with a "self" -- which isn't a dig in the least, as the ability to self-promote is something that's come to really impress me in others. I lack it completely, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of others here lacked whatever combination of self-promotion and unselfconscious ambition and general Putting Yourself Out there that allows people like SL to do as well as they do. Everyone will try and tear people like that down, because it offends our sense of meritocracy that they can get ahead by -- duh! -- actually making an effort, but there's something vaguely childish in that.

(And a funny gender dynamic in that, too, cause I feel like the trend among people I know -- to generalize vastly -- has a lot of young women who'll actually put their egos on the line and go after something, whether it's music writing or anything else, and a lot of young men who'll sit back knowing a ton about it and being hyper-highbrow critical about it and apparently waiting for the universe to swoop magically down and acknowledge their brilliance.)

(And they dare use computers and music, the twin tools of the never dated in high school brigade, to brand themselves _cool_ - this is probably part of the rub.)

From reading this thread, Ultragrrrl seems to be more engaged with music than her compatriots. Maybe she's the leader and gets to wear the paper hat. Good for her.

personally i prefer Asus4's. or whatever i was forced to learn in high school jazz band.

Marketing is not "OMG I LUUUUUUUV teh Killers". That's hype. Hype requires no skill whatsoever.

If you can't tell me why you like something, don't tell me at all.
Having someone constantly tell you how good something is, regardless of your thoughts on it, will eventually get annoying, especially when no effort is put into explaining why that thing is so good. Having someone continually hype a band which needs no further exposure is equally as annoying. There is a critical mass at which excessive promotion becomes unbearable.

Ultraboil might as well tattoo 'EAT AT JOE'S' on her forehead.

Ultragout
Ultragrill
Ultrashill
Ultragak
Bitchpork

I.e., you go to a show with Ultragrrl and see some nice-looking band that looks like the Smiths. Afterward, you go home and think: what does it signify that such bands have become the pop standard for young rock kids, and does it have anything to do with Barthes? Afterward, Ultragrrl goes home and tells the kids that they'll totally love this new band that sounds like the Smiths. She gets attention, and you eat macaroni and bitch.

I just don't see this happening. Like mentioned above, if you share the taste of the zeitgeist, and discuss all the bands that are on said trend, some are going to get attention, most won't. Is that a result of your actions? And even those that do, most of them have no legs anyway, so it becomes a mute point some time later. For all the bands she's hyped that have catched on, there are many many more that never will. I do agree it's amazing that the Killers are that popular, as Mike says, when a band reaches the "Malls of America". But in a year when they move onto whatever the next big thing is, will the bands she continues to promote still make it to the malls? And if they don't, how much credit will she get then?

I'm glad you think I'm doing ok for myself, mike(and thanks for contr. to nyhapps) but any discomfort I have with the more "successfull" and/or "high-profile" contingents of the ny scene relate to the fact that I even bother thinking about such things. Some days I seperate myself, "that's not my crowd, not my demographic" etc and move ahead and work on my own thing. But more often then not, we're all competing for a very small market, the nightlife community, the attention of music press etc.

Being Dan and I do Saturday's together at Capone's, I have to side with this (except I want the masses to be interested, because earning less than $50 for a night really sucks when it comes to that).

50 bucks is wrong. You all should get more. I hope Todd P's space opens again soon. That was the best new space I'd seen in awhile

best of luck to the todd p's and dan selzers of nyc
personally I don't really know anyone that goes to misshapes

but truth be told five years ago I probably would have been there

I was trying to be brief, but apparantly, misleading.

We typically earn a few hundred or so to split. We're doing rather well...but on a bad night, with guests...well, you can do the math. In fact, we're doing so well, we've taken over Friday nights too, starting, uh, tonight (except I ws already booked for M Shanghai with Porkchop, so they'll be doing Capone's w/o me tonight.)

personally I don't really know anyone that goes to misshapes

I went once, when I didn't even know what it was. I was new to town and Dan was booked to DJ, so I stayed for his set. I didn't see all of that polaroid type stuff, but then again, it was early.

I went to a party at Happy Ending recently that totally fit this bill. I was so lost...like...why does this DJ suck and why is no one dancing and who are all of these people and why do they all know one antoer and where are all the people I know and etc.

I see those people only via myspace or whatever. Friends of friends type thing.

regardless I don't really dislike either in an active manner, just often get bored

And how does the story end? With the manager saying "even though you only played and hour, I'll pay you for the full time". rim-shot please.

I complained to enough people I know so I guess that word got to Thomas, who does the door at Misshapes and Motherfucker, and he told me he was upset that I had a bad experiance, which I appreciated. It was never really clear whether the issue should be w/ the Misshapes kids or the manager or whatever, but it was one of the shittier experiences I've had as a DJ. The true story? I think they were suprised that not that many people from their crowd turned out and they wanted to go on while there were people dancing. It's tough maybe when you realize that everyone comes to Luke and Leroys on saturdays does not mean they will follow you, even to the night before. Maybe now they would, who knows.

I vowed never to return to Luke and Leroys but did for Cazzo Pazzo because I wanted to play gay italian disco and hi-nrg for actual homosexuals. That went over only slightly better.

But about the money, man, Capone's is amazing, we're doing really well. I know it's a big pain to carry records around and DJ for 6 hours and all of that, but at least we're getting paid. I certainly spent the first 3 or 4 years being happy if I got paid at all. And often at the end of the night at my party at Plant I'd reach into my pocket to get money for the guest DJ. And even now I'm not always getting paid, but feel super lucky that when I do, it's often decent money. And I hang around enough bands to almost feel guilty about it(emphasis, almost!) I mean, some of my friends in great bands, lug around gear, write songs, perform to nobody, and walk away splitting 35 or 70 bucks among 5 people. Compared to that what we're raking in at capones on saturdays is a freaking goldmine.

i wish russ did stuff again. it feels like he dropped off the face of the planet. i miss that dude.

dan, the saturday nite is great. every time i've been, i've had a good time and heard great music. even the "get everyone on the floor" sorta obvious numbers work well in the context. i wish i did more dj stuff, but oh well.

Phil...you are the demographic we are competing for. You are sitting in the middle of the ven diagram that has Misshapes on one side, and Alldisco/The Beat Club on the other.

bad thing i keep having to work saturday nights. : (

make that paper CROWN! BK style. durf.

all this talk of NYC makes me think that pittsburgh is quite nearly as po-dunk as i think it is...
mind you, the occasional act comes thru and undoes this idea, as it's a great time and people act really nice to each other and aren't worrying about 'the hair' or 'the look' or whatever it is that makes people an hour late to a gig...

or maybe the people i wanna see don't wanna come thru due to the 'pay to play tax' and people like m@nny f.
or lack of good venues (though, there is a few!).

working saturday night sometimes does suck.
try going fri/sat/sun/mon/tues/wed-off thur/fri/repeat.
it's a social wasteland anyway....too much 'product'.

Found a copy of the book just recently. There's not much to it other than smarmy little lists of songs (none of them especially esoteric) that one should play in various contexts when one aspires to create the right impression as deemed cool by the author. That's fine, I guess. But little snippets like her encapsulation of the genre on her "industrial" playlist....

If dance music mixed with a metal edge -- or metal with a dance groove -- sounds dope to you, then you're checking out the right list!

It's enough to rouse Jhon Balance from his early grave to come back and silence her.

There are about ninety-three million good jazz songs out there, but here are the basics. Should you ever work at a coffee shop, this is the mix that should be playing all day long.

http://images.google.com/images?q=ultragrrl&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images

http://www.art-of-music.net/official/1191/wallpaper/Stockhausen.jpg
Ultragrrrl

"Hey, you know what book you should read?-- How To Dress Yourself"

A Brand New 30GB Video iPod With A Custom Case Designed By...

(wait for it)

Ultragrrrl!

How? By crafting your own kick-ass ipod playlist - just like the ones in Sarah Lewittin's new book, THE POCKET DJ - and posting it on SPIN.com's message boards!

http://www.spin.com/ultragrrrl/

HAHAAWWAAAHHAHAA!
that's great!!!!!

alright, that's a bit much, but i'd at least heckle her soundly!!!

i'll probably do neither, but hey...it's fun to think about!

Probably was walked upon. Childhood trauma might explain horrific sense of style.

This seems to reflect poorer on "all the people who have commented" than it does on ultragrrl, frankly.

Yeah, I'm still laughing at "you wouldn't even be let in the door at MisShapes" meant as an insult.

any place you're not cool enough to get into is probably someplace you haven't heard of anyway.

And of course part of what makes her special is that, well, if you tried to get one of the rock geeks who hate her to A&R-spot like this, he'd probably smart himself into irrelevance by picking the "interesting" band, or the band with "substance," instead of the faux-stylish one that's actually going to sell a shitload of records

most of those guys would never plump for any of the types of bands -- Muse, Killers, whatever -- that stand a chance of hitting the kind of platinum blow-up that major labels still obsess over.

Jason/Jake Shears is much the same person I met over 10 year ago in Seattle when I was working at Bauhaus Cafe on Capitol Hill: bubbly, optimistic, and friendly. I had so many other friends who seemed far more obsessed with music and fame; I never would have pegged him to be a future rock star.

She's not much different than when I first met her eight years ago, playing records at a LES bar with Spitz—she got so drunk she had to be carried downstairs to the bathroom, leading to an incident that earned her the nickname "Buckets." She just really loved music then, too, but back then no one paid much attention to her opinions.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1169/876112108_6cea21bc59_o.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1349/881007131_f01990e8d7_o.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1093/773936253_6134c8e64e_o.jpg

i forget she is a little bit hot

she looks like trayce in that last pic.

lol

would not smash

of course, she looks like you in drag

wham bam

not even close

doesn't she just sort of pick bands who are tipped by nme or whatever anyway, and then go "hey guyz, there's this hot noo band..."

Aw, she looks happy.

Also, it's probably sad that one of the first things i noticed was her Burned-on-iTunes-using-default-blue-CD-cover-template CD-R scrapbook in the second pic.

She looks a little like my sister-in-law's partner.

that was a really shitty article

Hello…
Below is the typical PR note… basic gist: There’s a cover of Air’s “Sexy Boy” in a new AXE commercial… links for posting below.
xo Sarah Lewitinn / Ultragrrrl

Hi!

Today, AXE is set to launch its new tempting fragrance Excite with a television commercial featuring an exclusive cover of Air’s 1998 classic, “Sexy Boy,” by the choir group The Fallen Angels. Here’s the link to the video and the song:

Watch the commercial:
:30 version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J6ie2ZiCGI
:60 version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qskcmabLuQ

Hear the song in full:
Soundcloud: http://soundcloud.com/axeexcite/the-fallen-angels-sexy-boy
iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/sexy-boy-single/id410813104

Would you be interested in posting this to your site? Let us know if you’d like to sample the new products as well.

For More Information about AXE and to follow AXE in the social spaces:
AXE on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/AXE
AXE on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/AXE
AXE on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/AXE
http://www.theaxeeffect.com/

About AXE Excite:
Developed by world-renowned fragrance experts, AXE Excite combines a seductive blend of gourmet notes such as caramel, coconut and hazelnut, and evolves into a lingering edgy aroma that tempts the senses.

Excite is available at most food, drug and mass retail outlets for a suggested retail price of:

* $4.99 for Deodorant Bodyspray, Deodorant Stick and Antiperspirant Invisible Solid
* $3.99 for Shower Gel

THANKS!!!

-
Thank you. That is all.

Yeah, there it is, up on the site.

Send the smellies round then!

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ozxlw/iama_woman_who_was_once_considered_one_of_the/

Somewhere between cheery and strained. But surprisingly cheery.

I used to hang with Jay Z at work, would hang with courtney love for days at a time, got kissed by members of the smiths, felt like i belonged, got kidnapped by the killers (almost famous-style), had bands play my apt, danced & laughed til i fell, watched sunrises with boys i fell in love with, felt loved by friends, felt loved by music, and survived. My days and nights were never ending.

ok a 31-year-old get all teary-eyed about 'the good old days' is bumming me out

Yeah, I was thinking that 32 sounded a little young to turn into a middle-aged homebody.

it happened to me, and i've never even been kissed by jay z!

^ this

I'm 31 and vaguely intended to out tonight but now it's about an hour before I'd need to get on the bus and I'm feeling fairly content to sit on the sofa and do nothing of any use or interest instead, exactly as has happened every other time I thought I might go out over the past year. And I've never been kissed by Jay-Z or any members of the Smiths.

i'm 30 and definitely an old homebody in a lot of ways but if i sat around thinking about how much more i "felt loved by friends" a few years ago, jesus

You are all mere babies.

I completely forgot about her. It always creeped me out how much she looks like Brian Molko.

(xp) true. it sounds like she was actually pretty unhappy at the time in which she "belonged" and her "days and nights were never ending" too.

I can relate to that romanticised view of former stressful, busy, pretty shitty life phase too, though admittedly on a much less glamorous scale...

its like being a former child star or a former pop star. the phone doesn't ring like it used to...

she says in that online chat thing that she wanted to die/kill herself when she ran a label. i didn't even know she had run a label. all was not sweetness and light in utragrrrrrl world.

well i think there's something to be said for the notion that it must really be psychologically--i don't want to say "painful" because who knows--altering to be such an "it" person for a brief period of time and coasting on something that really isn't going to last, and then going back down to earth. i'm sure it's weird to know that your apex of fame has come and gone (though i guess it's only harmful if you care too much about that fact!)

i typically charge about $2500 - $3500 to dj a wedding or corporate event.i typically charge about $2500 - $3500 to dj a wedding or corporate event.i typically charge about $2500 - $3500 to dj a wedding or corporate event.i typically charge about $2500 - $3500 to dj a wedding or corporate event.i typically charge about $2500 - $3500 to dj a wedding or corporate event.i typically charge about $2500 - $3500 to dj a wedding or corporate event.i typically charge about $2500 - $3500 to dj a wedding or corporate event.

me irl

like being a successful athlete or - hey - a rock star, figuring out what to do w/the rest of yr life is a bitch

Wow. I really disliked her writing back then. Now though, I can't help liking her.

I would like to read more interviews with hip people five years after anyone who once had, stopped giving a shit about them.

is it too soon for hipster grifter?

lol

I was going to wait at least one more year before busting out my korean abgom-jabbar dn

http://boingboing.net/2014/06/03/record-producerdj-sarah-ul.html

motorjew??

I was recently called out on Twitter about this thread. Suffice to say, back in the late 90's through early 2000's, I expressed a profoundly ill-advised selection of roundly ill-advised, insensitive and objectionable comments here, usually couched within the frequently missed understanding that I should not be taken so deathly seriously.

Some people may have gleaned as much, but others did not. It is certainly not a a testament to my abilities to convey my genuine points that my venom and bluster was so routinely taken at face value. Moreover, I was probably frequently inconsiderate, unthinking and impulsive about the things I contributed here.

In short, I was a callously unthinking dick quite a lot of the time. Having big opinions about things shouldn't give one license to behave like I did, and I was out of line on more than a few occasions, this thread being just one of them.

In any case, I believe I penned a mea culpa on my blog some years ago to the same effect but it bears repeating. I am sorry. I did not mean any harm. I was foolish and stupid. I sincerely apologize to Ultrragrrl, Scout Niblett and any number of other targets i singled out for spleen-venting.

I regret it all.

"I expressed a profoundly ill-advised selection of roundly ill-advised.."

Awful.

One more thing on this: i used to blithely suggest that no one's day should be ruined by something they read on a public forum about music, as if that was some shiny badge that enabled me to be callous, boorish, pig-headed and insulting. Well, that's a pile of crap, and I again apologize. Regardless of the subject matter of a discussion, there's never an excuse for being a belittling jerk. I was and am that jerk, and I apologize again.