P&J '05?

I think you've got Guero a bit high, Gimme Fiction a bit low, and overestimate Fannypack's appeal- I'd be surprised (but happy) to see them make the list at all...

Metacritic is usually a good barometer (kinda falls off on the albums that haven't penetrated the mainstream, but there you go). The top 10 most critically fawned over this year are:

1 Antony And The Johnsons- I Am A Bird Now 88
2 M.I.A.- Arular 87
3 Edan- Beauty And The Beat 86
4 The Go-Betweens- Oceans Apart 86
5 Sleater-Kinney- The Woods 86
6 Andrew Bird- The Mysterious Production Of Eggs 85
7 LCD Soundsystem- LCD Soundsystem 85
8 System Of A Down- Mezmerize 85
9 Eels- Blinking Lights And Other Revelations 85
10 Spoon- Gimme Fiction

Er, no it's not. At all, really.

>kinda falls off on the albums that haven't penetrated the mainstream<

Huh? I don't get this either...you mean like antony & the johnsons and edan and andrew bird and lcd soundsytem (and hell, pretty much everything in the current metacritic top ten give or take system of a down)? oh wait....

Bizarre that nobody (including Metacritic, which is no surprise at all) has mentioned Common (which could *easily* make the top ten, and might finish a lot higher than that.) and i wouldn't be totally surprised if the perceptionists beat out, i dunno, new pornographers or sigur ros that fiery furnaces EP or neko case or art brut (whoever they are) either.

queens of the stone age may not finish at all (does anybody even care about them anymore?) and no way will antony & the johnsons finish that high.

And just noticed NIN up there, wow...I've had the impression that people give even less of a shit about that one the QOTSA one. But maybe I'm wrong.

charlie poole??

Chuck's right about this: the precise reason why Metacritic isn't a good barometer for P&J is that if five critics really, really like the Junior Boys, then they'll have a high Metacritic rating, despite the fact that nobody else has heard them. Come P&J time, what counts is less whether a small number of people love an album and more whether a large number of people kinda-like an album.

And metacritic gets ruined by boneheads like certain pitchforkers who will give a record a 3.1 or something, thereby flushing its score down the toilet.

Acclaimedmusic.net has a much more accurate yearly rating system (although none are perfect, obviously)

jaymc is probably right about vitalic. i had no idea that they were instrumental, even! but yeah, instrumental electronic albums tend not to do well at all.

Top 100 rated albums of 2005 on rateyourmusic.com
http://rateyourmusic.com/top_albums?year=2005

Top 20 at the mo:

1 Sufjan Stevens:
Illinois

2 The Decemberists:
Picaresque

3 The Mars Volta:
Frances The Mute

4 Bright Eyes:
I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning

5 Andrew Bird:
Andrew Bird & The Mysterious Production Of Eggs

6 Sage Francis:
A Healthy Distrust

7 Antony and the Johnsons:
I Am a Bird Now

8 Porcupine Tree:
Deadwing

9 Bloc Party:
Silent Alarm

10 Low:
The Great Destroyer

11 Eels:
Blinking Lights And Other Revelations

12 Architecture In Helsinki:
In Case We Die

13 Dark Tranquillity:
Character

14 Black Label Society:
Mafia

15 System of a Down:
Mezmerize

16 Beck:
Guero

17 Ryan Adams:
Cold Roses

18 Doves:
Some Cities

19 Queens of the Stone Age:
Lullabies to Paralyze

20 LCD Soundsystem:
LCD Soundsystem

*This offer void.

2005 Albums
http://rateyourmusic.com/lists/list_view/list_id_is_14969

(rapos4, my gmail is all fuct, if there are any baseball things going on put my other email on there and attach me)

(And I may vote for it)

I don't think hardly anybody has ever even heard of Magic Numbers or Dead '60s or Arctic Monkeys (two of which I myself have never heard of). None of them will finish, unless one winds up being Arcade Fire.

Both rateyourmusic and metacritc are so indie-rock-intensive it creeps me out. porcupine tree but not common? that's just plain goofy.

xp

dead '60s are sort of... um, a bad ska band or something. they're the ones that i heard of before, too. i even made it through 2 songs on their album!

The Magic Numbers album will go top 5 in the UK, there's an off-chance it may even make number one if its released in a quiet week.

That probably means nothing because P&J is based in the US though. So that was a pointless post.

Costello won in '78, Graham Parker in '79, the Clash in '80 and '81. After that, I forget if anybody from the land of tea and crumpets has won, but there's a good chance somebody has who is slipping my mind.

(um...did u2 ever win? seems like they should have, at least once. but maybe not. sinead o'connor finished second once, as i recall.)

>I'm also curious whether there's a tendency in P&J to skew toward things released in the second half of the year <

not really, i don't think. maybe more so on the singles list, actually. albums that come out in december rarely do all that well.

what i'm wondering if is anybody will not vote for m.i.a. BECAUSE they voted for *piracy funds terrorism* last year. with me, that may be a possibility -- but i usually wind up with so many good albums to choose from (which will *definitely* happen this year) that i often use i-already-voted-for-them-last-year as a factor to weed out albums i would might otherwise have given 5 or 6 points to. all things being equal, artists who already had their turn often go by the wayside.

Outside the fact the record's no damn good, Josh Homme was aching for it by flogging the Eagles of Death Metal all over the country when nobody asked 'im. A 2nd EoDM is threatened this year, but outside of Griel Marcus and Ken Tucker possibly theoretically allowing it charity case votes...

>Metacritic is usually a good barometer

Double bullshit. Chuck mentioned a couple reasons. It skews for the twee, precious and whatever you can't find at BestBuy that the two big US dailies like to yak about on Sundays.

95 - pj harvey - 2 bring u my luv
82 - elvis costello - imperial bedroom
81 - the clash - sandinista
80 - the clash - london calling
79 - graham parker - squeezing out sparks
78 - elvis costello - this year's model
77 - sex pistols - nevermind
71 - the who - who's next

xp

Well, okay, maybe M.I.A. fills this spot. And yeah, Sleater Kinney will finish of course, and probably Spoon too. And maybe LCD & the Go-Betweens & non-indie-obscuro System of A Down if enough people still care about them. Beyond those, though, I wouldn't be so certain.

Is there any chance for Wind in the Wires to place?

And re M.I.A.: You don't win something like PnJ because everyone picks you #1. You win if a third of the people put you somewhere on their ballots. (Most years, 10% of the voters naming you at all will be good enough for a top-10 finish, or close to it.) I think M.I.A. is going to be somewhere on a lot of ballots.

Also, I am interested to see if/where the Decembrists place. I'm not really a fan of theirs, but I wonder if their appeal is more to a younger demographic than the average age of critics who vote in P&J.

Common could be pretty high as well.

Expand the sample. Or what Chuck said. Even a blind pig will root up a a few of everyone's favorite truffles in a year.

System of A Down if enough people still care about them.

Dropped out the soCal sales top slot after one week. First week sold ca. 118,000 and if you choose any negative slope you like, it's going to flop pretty fast unless a miracle or two occur. The *wit and wisdom of Serj Tankian* phenomenon, however, could certainly keep it alive in the minds of critics not at all like me. Jeez, "BYOB" stinks. As a collection of bromides and slogans, it would be more exciting to hear him recite from a Noam Chomsky pamplet.

The White Stripes have come really close before (Elephant #2, White Blood Cells #4), and I figured if no clear-cut winner shows up during the year's second half (Kanye, OutKast, Franz or YYYs even), it could win more or less by default, by just appearing up on a lot of ballots. Maybe the best comparison would be Little Creatures? It's not typically considered their best record (though it may actually be my favorite), but it does represent a shift within their discography and they're previous stuff had placed high (TH '77 #7, Fear of Music #4, Remain in Light #3, Speaking in Tongues #3). But wasn't it their most commercially successful album at that point? Don't know if the same will prove true of Get Behind Me Satan or not, but that's my logic there anyway.

The same seems true, to some extent at least, of Sleater-Kinney, who rival Radiohead among current groups who consistently place high without ever having topped the thing.

The Common record just slipped my mind, and I don't know whether Extraordinary Machine will be released this year (or ever) and, frankly, don't much care.

Is Bubba putting out a new one this year??

I could see the SOD album building a lot of support--it's insanely good. And aren't they putting another one out or something?

And yeah, unless they really fucked up the Wolf Parade album, it's gonna do great.

2004 ALBUMS
Kanye West 30.9%
Brian Wilson 20.7%
Loretta Lynn 20.8%
Franz Ferdinand 18.5%

2004 SINGLES
Franz Ferdinand 18.4%
Jay-Z 17.0%
Usher 15.3%

2003 ALBUMS
OutKast 42.1%
White Stripes 29.0%
Fountains of Wayne 16.0%
Radiohead 15.7%

2003 SINGLES
OutKast 44.1%
Beyoncé 27.9%
White Stripes 17.5%
Kelis 17.1%
50 Cent 16.1%

2002 ALBUMS
Wilco 28.9%
Beck 20.0%
Flaming Lips 16.0%

2002 SINGLES
Missy 30.4%
Eminem 17.0%
Nelly 16.1%

2001 ALBUMS
Bob Dylan 37.6%
Strokes 25.4%
Bjork 19.3%
White Stripes 17.0%
Radiohead 15.4%

2001 SINGLES
Missy Elliott 28.1%

2000 ALBUMS
OutKast 37.5%
PJ Harvey 26.5%
Radiohead 26.5%
Eminem 21.7%
Shelby Lynne 17.4%
D'Angelo 17.1%

2000 SINGLES
OutKast ("Ms. Jackson") 21.2%
Eminem 19.3%
OutKast ("B.O.B.") 18.4%
U2 16.9%

1999 ALBUMS
Moby 27.4%
Magnetic Fields 20.2%
Beck 24.1%
Flaming Lips 20.9%
Tom Waits 19.6%
Rage Against the Machine 15.7%
Fiona Apple 15.7%
Wilco 15.1%

1999 SINGLES
TLC 21.7%

(To put Pazz & Jop in perspective, in 1999 "...Baby One More Time" and "Back That Azz Up" each got only 4.5%, which is not only embarrassing to the poll but to me as well, since I didn't vote for either, for reasons that I can't recall but I'm sure would make no sense to me now, though the fact that 1999 was maybe the greatest year for singles since 1966 could have had something to do with it.)

Sleater-Kinney got 24.5% with Dig Me Out in 1997, but haven't gotten over 15% since.

Anyway, past success is no guarantee of future performance, and album voters get to weigh their choices, for whatever effect that has (Brian Wilson and Magnetic Fields both benefited greatly). My guess is that the poll will veer slightly more indie than in the past few years as it's getting more Web-based writers, but that indie voters will find M.I.A. congenial (more congenial than they'd find 50 Cent). I also feel that OutKast's time has passed, but one could have said the same thing about Dylan lots of times in the last 32 (or 35) years, and what the albums actually sound like could influence the vote. Maybe this will be Fiona Apple's year. I'll predict that M.I.A. gets in the low 30s, and that's enough to do it. No rock song (unless it's by OutKast) is going to beat "1 Thing," but some forthcoming hip-hop/r&b track could.

1979 Ian Dury & the Blockheads "Hit Me with Your Rhythm Stick" (single)
1981 Specials Ghost Town (ep)
1981 Rolling Stones "Start Me Up" (single, tied for first)
1984 Art of Noise "Close" (video)
1986 Peter Gabriel "Sledgehammer" (video)
1987 Squeeze "Hourglass" (video)
1990 Mekons F.U.N. '90 (ep)
1995 Macro Dub Infection - Volume 1 (compilation)
1996 LTJ Bukem Presents Logical Progression (compilation)
1998 Fatboy Slim "The Rockefeller Skank" (single)
2004 Franz Ferdinand "Take Me Out" (single)

Also, 1985 videos and singles winner "Sun City" included Peter Gabriel and Bono among its performers.

I didn't research the "Local Band" category, though I would expect that no Britons ever won it.

"Crazy In Love" would have won in a normal year (that is, not having to go against "Hey Ya"), which is why I think "1 Thing" will do very well. Also, it's an undeniably catchy song (even caught me, despite my not really liking its glossy vocals); the only big challenger, so far, "Since U Been Gone," is probably too teenybopper-associated to win, though I'm gonna vote for it.

But of course there's more to come.

What about "Mr. Brightside" by the Killers? A lot of people seem to (undersandaby) love that one....and a dance-oriented neo-wave haircut-pop band did win the singles poll last year, remember. Though maybe being a track on an album from 2004 will hurt its chances. (And speaking of which, what about "Hollaback Girl"?) (And not speaking of which, what about "Wait [The Whisper Song]"?) (Which is probably the Ying Yang Twins' worst single ever, by the way -- but also their most successful with both critics and consumers, right? Except for the ones who [understandably] can't stand it.)

Tsk.

i'd guess "i play chicken with the train." though my own overall #1single so far this year, "4th of July" by shooter jennings, is another possibility, i hope.

By the way (and this is apropos of nothing, as it won't show up on Pazz & Jop), I'm listening right now to the Kumbia Kings' "Fuego" and it scores high on the Silly Dance Meter. Not that people will do silly dances to it, but they might dance themselves silly nonetheless. I'm guessing it's bubblecumbia, or novelty cumbia, or something, assuming that it is cumbia and that I'm not just being taken in by the band's name (damned if I know, though it does have that cumbia lilt, I guess).

I doubt that "Gasolina" has a snowball's chance in hell of winning, though I may well end up voting for it (but not over Johnny Prez's "Tu Pum Pum," which I keep urging all of you to listen to).

I'd consider myself a casual fan of theirs and I think the new one's a wet noodle.

x-post

M.I.A. is clearly the leading contender right now; since there's seven months to go I can't guarantee anything, but I'll be shocked if she places lower than third. something similar applies to the Hold Steady.

Kate Bush
Felix da Housecat ? [is a new album on the way?]
Deftones
Dredg
Elbow
Goldfrapp
Opeth
Sigur Ros
Tool
Tv on the Radio
Scott Walker
Xiu Xiu

well, actually, i've noticed that LOTS of people like the song. but most of them (ted leo included) don't vote in the poll.

1st Max | Season Results
Rk Name Team Place Points Points Share| AB H HR BA OPS SB| W-L IP ERA WHIP SO SV
+--+----------------+----+-----+------+------+-----+-----+---+--+-----+-----+---+------+---+-----+-----+---+--+
1 Vladimir Guerrero ANA 21 354 392 0.90 | 612 206 39 .337 .989 15|
2 Gary Sheffield NYY 5 254 392 0.65 | 573 166 36 .290 .927 5|
3 Manny Ramirez BOS 1 238 392 0.61 | 568 175 43 .308 1.009 2|
4 David Ortiz BOS 1 174 392 0.44 | 582 175 41 .301 .983 0|
5 Miguel Tejada BAL 0 123 392 0.31 | 653 203 34 .311 .894 4|
6 Johan Santana MIN 0 117 392 0.30 | 8 3 0 .375 .750 0| 20-6 228 2.61 0.92 265
7 Ichiro Suzuki SEA 0 98 392 0.25 | 704 262 8 .372 .869 36|
8 Michael Young TEX 0 92 392 0.23 | 690 216 22 .313 .836 12|
9 Mariano Rivera NYY 0 61 392 0.16 | | 4-2 79 1.94 1.08 66 53
10 Ivan Rodriguez DET 0 34 392 0.09 | 527 176 19 .334 .893 7|
11 Curt Schilling BOS 0 14 392 0.04 | 7 1 0 .143 .286 0| 21-6 227 3.26 1.06 203
12 Joe Nathan MIN 0 12 392 0.03 | 1 0 0 .000 .000 0| 1-2 72 1.62 0.98 89 44
13 Derek Jeter NYY 0 11 392 0.03 | 643 188 23 .292 .823 23|
14 Mark Kotsay OAK 0 8 392 0.02 | 606 190 15 .314 .829 8|
14 Alex Rodriguez NYY 0 8 392 0.02 | 601 172 36 .286 .888 28|
16 Johnny Damon BOS 0 7 392 0.02 | 621 189 20 .304 .857 19|
16 Paul Konerko CHW 0 7 392 0.02 | 563 156 41 .277 .894 1|
18 Hank Blalock TEX 0 5 392 0.01 | 624 172 32 .276 .855 2|
18 Melvin Mora BAL 0 5 392 0.01 | 550 187 27 .340 .981 11|
18 Mark Teixeira TEX 0 5 392 0.01 | 545 153 38 .281 .929 4|
21 Torii Hunter MIN 0 4 392 0.01 | 520 141 23 .271 .805 21|
21 Victor Martinez CLE 0 4 392 0.01 | 520 147 23 .283 .851 0|
23 Erubiel Durazo OAK 0 3 392 0.01 | 511 164 22 .321 .919 3|
24 Francisco Cordero TEX 0 2 392 0.01 | | 3-4 72 2.13 1.28 79 49
24 Chone Figgins ANA 0 2 392 0.01 | 577 171 5 .296 .770 34|
24 Lew Ford MIN 0 2 392 0.01 | 569 170 15 .299 .827 20|
24 Carlos Guillen DET 0 2 392 0.01 | 522 166 20 .318 .921 12|
24 Travis Hafner CLE 0 2 392 0.01 | 482 150 28 .311 .993 3|
24 Hideki Matsui NYY 0 2 392 0.01 | 584 174 31 .298 .912 3|
30 Eric Chavez OAK 0 1 392 0.00 | 475 131 29 .276 .898 6|
30 Jason Varitek BOS 0 1 392 0.00 | 463 137 18 .296 .872 10|

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2004 National League Most Valuable Player

1st Max | Season Results
Rk Name Team Place Points Points Share| AB H HR BA OPS SB| W-L IP ERA WHIP SO SV
+--+----------------+----+-----+------+------+-----+-----+---+--+-----+-----+---+------+---+-----+-----+---+--+
1 Barry Bonds SFG 24 407 448 0.91 | 373 135 45 .362 1.422 6|
2 Adrian Beltre LAD 6 311 448 0.69 | 598 200 48 .334 1.017 7|
3 Albert Pujols STL 1 247 448 0.55 | 592 196 46 .331 1.072 5|
4 Scott Rolen STL 1 226 448 0.50 | 500 157 34 .314 1.007 4|
5 Jim Edmonds STL 0 160 448 0.36 | 498 150 42 .301 1.061 8|
6 J.D. Drew ATL 0 114 448 0.25 | 518 158 31 .305 1.006 12|
7 Lance Berkman HOU 0 100 448 0.22 | 544 172 30 .316 1.016 9|
8 Roger Clemens HOU 0 61 448 0.14 | 72 12 0 .167 .381 0| 18-4 214 2.98 1.16 218
9 Mark Loretta SDP 0 50 448 0.11 | 620 208 16 .335 .886 5|
10 Aramis Ramirez CHC 0 42 448 0.09 | 547 174 36 .318 .951 0|
11 Eric Gagne LAD 0 30 448 0.07 | 3 0 0 .000 .000 0| 7-3 82 2.19 0.91 114 45
12 Carlos Beltran TOT 0 20 448 0.04 | 333 86 23 .258 .926 28|
13 Jeff Kent HOU 0 18 448 0.04 | 540 156 27 .289 .880 7|
14 Moises Alou CHC 0 15 448 0.03 | 601 176 39 .293 .919 3|
14 Steve Finley TOT 0 15 448 0.03 | +628 170 36 .271 .823 9|
16 Todd Helton COL 0 9 448 0.02 | 547 190 32 .347 1.088 3|
16 Juan Pierre FLA 0 9 448 0.02 | 678 221 3 .326 .781 45|
18 Johnny Estrada ATL 0 8 448 0.02 | 462 145 9 .314 .828 0|
19 Randy Johnson ARI 0 7 448 0.02 | 80 10 0 .125 .329 0| 16-14 246 2.60 0.90 290
19 Jim Thome PHI 0 7 448 0.02 | 508 139 42 .274 .977 0|
21 John Smoltz ATL 0 6 448 0.01 | 2 0 0 .000 .000 0| 0-1 82 2.76 1.08 85 44
22 Miguel Cabrera FLA 0 5 448 0.01 | 603 177 33 .294 .879 5|
23 Bobby Abreu PHI 0 3 448 0.01 | 574 173 30 .301 .971 40|
23 Armando Benitez FLA 0 3 448 0.01 | 1 0 0 .000 .000 0| 2-2 70 1.29 0.82 62 47
23 Jeromy Burnitz COL 0 3 448 0.01 | 540 153 37 .283 .916 5|
23 Vinny Castilla COL 0 3 448 0.01 | 583 158 35 .271 .867 0|
23 Roy Oswalt HOU 0 3 448 0.01 | 71 10 0 .141 .339 0| 20-10 237 3.49 1.24 206
28 Adam Dunn CIN 0 2 448 0.00 | 568 151 46 .266 .956 6|
28 Carlos Zambrano CHC 0 2 448 0.00 | 70 16 1 .229 .542 0| 16-8 210 2.75 1.22 188
30 Phil Nevin SDP 0 1 448 0.00 | 547 158 26 .289 .859 0|
30 Jimmy Rollins PHI 0 1 448 0.00 | 657 190 14 .289 .803 30|

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2004 American League Cy Young Award

1st Max | Season Results
Rk Name Team Place Points Points Share| W-L IP ERA WHIP SO SV
+--+----------------+----+-----+------+------+-----+------+---+-----+-----+---+--+
1 Johan Santana MIN 28 140 140 1.00 | 20-6 228 2.61 0.92 265
2 Curt Schilling BOS 0 82 140 0.59 | 21-6 227 3.26 1.06 203
3 Mariano Rivera NYY 0 27 140 0.19 | 4-2 79 1.94 1.08 66 53
4 Pedro Martinez BOS 0 1 140 0.01 | 16-9 217 3.90 1.17 227
4 Joe Nathan MIN 0 1 140 0.01 | 1-2 72 1.62 0.98 89 44
4 Francisco Rodrigu ANA 0 1 140 0.01 | 4-1 84 1.82 1.00 123 12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2004 National League Cy Young Award

1st Max | Season Results
Rk Name Team Place Points Points Share| W-L IP ERA WHIP SO SV
+--+----------------+----+-----+------+------+-----+------+---+-----+-----+---+--+
1 Roger Clemens HOU 23 140 160 0.88 | 18-4 214 2.98 1.16 218
2 Randy Johnson ARI 8 97 160 0.61 | 16-14 246 2.60 0.90 290
3 Roy Oswalt HOU 1 19 160 0.12 | 20-10 237 3.49 1.24 206
4 Jason Schmidt SFG 0 13 160 0.08 | 18-7 225 3.20 1.08 251
5 Carlos Zambrano CHC 0 8 160 0.05 | 16-8 210 2.75 1.22 188
6 Carl Pavano FLA 0 6 160 0.04 | 18-8 222 3.00 1.17 139
7 Eric Gagne LAD 0 3 160 0.02 | 7-3 82 2.19 0.91 114 45
8 Brad Lidge HOU 0 1 160 0.01 | 6-5 95 1.90 0.92 157 29
8 Ben Sheets MIL 0 1 160 0.01 | 12-14 237 2.70 0.98 264

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2004 American League Rookie of the Year

1st Max | Season Results
Rk Name Team Place Points Points Share| AB H HR BA OPS SB| W-L IP ERA WHIP SO SV
+--+----------------+----+-----+------+------+-----+-----+---+--+-----+-----+---+------+---+-----+-----+---+--+
1 Bobby Crosby OAK 27 138 140 0.99 | 545 130 22 .239 .744 7|
2 Shingo Takatsu CHW 1 44 140 0.31 | | 6-4 62 2.31 0.98 50 19
3 Daniel Cabrera BAL 0 29 140 0.21 | 4 0 0 .000 .000 0| 12-8 148 5.00 1.58 76 1
4 Zack Greinke KCR 0 16 140 0.11 | 2 0 0 .000 .000 0| 8-11 145 3.97 1.17 100
5 Alexis Rios TOR 0 12 140 0.09 | 426 122 1 .286 .720 15|
6 David DeJesus KCR 0 6 140 0.04 | 363 104 7 .287 .763 8|
7 Ross Gload CHW 0 4 140 0.03 | 234 75 7 .321 .853 0|
8 John Buck KCR 0 1 140 0.01 | 238 56 12 .235 .704 1|
8 David Bush TOR 0 1 140 0.01 | 2 0 0 .000 .000 0| 5-4 98 3.69 1.23 64
8 Nate Robertson DET 0 1 140 0.01 | 3 0 0 .000 .000 0| 12-10 197 4.90 1.40 155 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2004 National League Rookie of the Year

1st Max | Season Results
Rk Name Team Place Points Points Share| AB H HR BA OPS SB| W-L IP ERA WHIP SO SV
+--+----------------+----+-----+------+------+-----+-----+---+--+-----+-----+---+------+---+-----+-----+---+--+
1 Jason Bay PIT 25 146 160 0.91 | 411 116 26 .282 .907 4|
2 Khalil Greene SDP 7 108 160 0.68 | 484 132 15 .273 .795 4|
3 Akinori Otsuka SDP 0 23 160 0.14 | 1 0 0 .000 .000 0| 7-2 77 1.75 1.06 87 2
4 Aaron Miles COL 0 6 160 0.04 | 522 153 6 .293 .697 12|
5 Matt Holliday COL 0 3 160 0.02 | 400 116 14 .290 .837 3|
6 Kazuo Matsui NYM 0 1 160 0.01 | 460 125 7 .272 .727 14|
6 Terrmel Sledge MON 0 1 160 0.01 | 398 107 15 .269 .799 3|

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2004 American League Manager of the Year

1st Max |
Rk Name Team Place Points Points Share | W-L Rank
+--+----------------+----+-----+------+------+------+---------+-----+
1 Buck Showalter TEX 14 101 140 0.72 | 89-73 3
2 Ron Gardenhire MIN 11 91 140 0.65 | 92-70 1
3 Mike Scioscia ANA 2 31 140 0.22 | 92-70 1
4 Joe Torre NYY 1 18 140 0.13 | 101-61 1
5 Terry Francona BOS 0 8 140 0.06 | 98-64 2
6 Eric Wedge CLE 0 3 140 0.02 | 80-82 3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2004 National League Manager of the Year

1st Max |
Rk Name Team Place Points Points Share | W-L Rank
+--+----------------+----+-----+------+------+------+---------+-----+
1 Bobby Cox ATL 22 140 160 0.88 | 96-66 1
2 Tony LaRussa STL 4 62 160 0.39 | 105-57 1
3 Jim Tracy LAD 4 52 160 0.32 | 93-69 1
4 Phil Garner HOU 2 27 160 0.17 | 48-26 2
5 Felipe Alou SFG 0 4 160 0.02 | 91-71 2
6 Bruce Bochy SDP 0 3 160 0.02 | 87-75 3

I doubt there's been a country single released yet that has a shot at Top 10 (or even Top 40), though if I were voting today, I'd vote for: "Lots of Leavin Left to Do," "Big Time," "4th of July," and "I May Hate Myself in the Morning."

Of albums released so far, White Stripes/MIA 1-2. Can't see MIA winning, but it will get that Streets/Sleater-Kinney style close but no cigar Top 5 finish.

The point above about people only voting for records they've heard is on point a lesson we all should have learned from Pazz and Jop prognostications past. The winner will likely be some kind of major-label alt-rock record or crossover hip-hop. White Stripes and Kanye West fit. MIA doesn't.

Hold Steady 10-15 range in real life, but creeping up on #1 for me.

Do you think my favorite record of the year, "Black Forest" by A Frames, will place well in the P&J poll?

A Fan,

M@tt He1geson

P.S. I think you should vote for it!

Anyone that votes for Podsednik for AL MVP deserves to be whacked with a loaf of headcheese for ONE FULL HOUR.

I think Lee has harnessed his abilities finally! He's always had power with a decent enough average and a very good eye. This is where it's all come together.

When I first saw this, I was thinking, "Compared to who, Luis Aparicio?" (Haha, I know who you were talking about now.)

I'm starting the Bobby Crosby For AL MVP Campaign (Sponsored By Jayson Stark).

x-post - he's only 16!

(BTW, I was wrong - he's 19.)

And Harden Harden Harden (tho both he & Halladay have been waylaid by injuries, and I heard - from that OTHER board - Halladay might be back pretty soon).

He's gotta pick up a few more wins, though. The ERA is mindblowing, but with only 9 wins right now, you can bet that some voters are going to vote for Carpenter. (Even though wins are a meaningless stat, yadda yadda.)

Damn - Pedro's got an ERA 1.4 runs larger than Clemens, w/ almost similar non-run stats (excepting 5 HRs), including a LOWER WHIP! Also, Clemens only has 8 wins. (John Patterson only has 4! He's totally Cy-worthy, too!)

in the al, halladay's been appreciably better than anyone else (save harden, but he missed too much time). and injury aside, he's an innings-eating machine. buerhle places second, i guess.

And Arular is looking like the 05 pazz & jop winner, unless something comes out this fall, which may very easily happen.

Let's not forget Pettitte! He's been fantastic this season! Not Cy-worthy, though. If Clemens maintains that ERA and wins 15-16 games, I don't think there's any way they can't give it to him.

As great as Clemens is, Carpenter is still better. IN the last six weeks he's seemingly mastered the game of baseball. That could all change this afternoon, but it's not likely.

Is it really that exorbitant to predict that he may have made a really strong album that (particular given the 'plays all instruments himself' angle) could be a surprise mature/dinosaur/critical favorite that could go top 40 in p&j?

(I will remind you that you liked Driving Rain, btw.)

put Pedro's name at least in the cy young conversation.

Do you think my favorite record of the year, "Black Forest" by A Frames, will place well in the P&J poll?

A Fan,

Fetchboy

P.S. I think you should vote for it!

Cy Youngs: Oswalt and Barry Zito (if his whole second half is like his past 10 starts)

and if I were voting P&J today I would submit only a singles ballot, no albums ballot.

http://koji1972.cocolog-nifty.com/yappari/ichiro_suzuki_08.jpg

Hell yeah!!!!

I Think "Since U Been Gone" Is Great And I Think She Could Probably Do A Great Version Of Russ Ballard's "Since You've Been Gone" In A Rainbow OR A Cherie & Marie Currie Vein As Well

Joining the conversation way late, but this is an incredible release. Too bad no one seems to be paying attention.

#34. Did you see them at Lollapalooza, Josh? I was kind of bored with the two new songs they played.