siouxsie and the banshees: classic or dud? search and destroy

Search: "Peekaboo" Destroy: "Kiss Them For Me"

Search: Urg, that's hard. I'll go with my personal underrated fave, "Cannons".
Destroy: "Dear Prudence". In a second. I mean, it's just a horrid song. Nothing they could have done would have saved it.

Destroy : the swastika

As far as goth goes, not horrible. There's something very unpleasant about her voice, though, that I can't quite put my finger on, something beyond the iciness that comes with the territory.

Classic if only for Peepshow. That's one damn fine record.

Search: "Fireworks" Destroy: "Hong Kong Garden", at least the lyrics thereof. "Slanted eyes greet a new sunrise / A race of bodies small in size / Chicken chow mein and chop suey / Hong Kong Garden takeaway". I mean really.

Search -- _Nocturne_, hands down. One of my favorite live albums *and* favorite albums. Just a great performance from everyone involved.

Destroy -- well, Tom had a rather good point. ;-)

Destroy : Voodoo Dolly from JuJu

Oh it's a 'C or D' as well is it? Oh Classic for sure. Actually I must confess that I haven't listened to S+B in 5 years, and I only have the early stuff. Must have a listen to some over the weekend.

The likes of Alien Sex Fiend, Sisters, and a host of bands either in the "Batcave" scene or featured in "new" Zigzag claimed to be "goth" but it was all a bit silly really. Probably mostly ended up getting jobs as bank clerks. Go check out Mick Mercer's "Gothic Rock" book for a full rundown of that hilarious era.

Siouxsie & The Banshees, goth ?!? Frankly, that's insulting !

They probably pre-date goth, but boy oh boy do they fit in. Also, I don't see any contradiction between being a goth and becoming a bank clerk. What are "true" goths suppose to make of themselves when they grow up, anyway ?

I thought everyone knew that.

an how could anyone not like kiss them for me? that's like the best song ever, though the hindu-deity appropriation in the video was a bit tired even for 1991

Just picked up the two-discer BEST OF SIOUXSIE & THE BANSHEES. Despite already being utterly needless in the wake of both the singles collectoins, ONCE UPON A TIME and TWICE UPON A TIME, this "limited edition" package includes a bonus disc of "rare Remixes"....just to rope in suckers like myself. Herein my beef: Being that the perfectly sublime "Song from the Edge of the World" does *NOT* exist anywhere on compact disc, why then tease fans by including the cringe-worthy "Columbus Mix" of said song instead of the definite article?

Problem numbah two: why no inclusion of earlier gems like "Metal Postcard"? You'd never know the band ever had a harder, punkier edge if this was the only document of theirs available (and isn't that what BEST OF's are supposed to do? Provide a the widest array of a band's canon?)

Personally speaking, I would've also included their live cover of "Helter Skelter."

All the other albums really need to be sieved to varying degrees but fortunately their best tracks were generally the singles

I agree with Sundar about those early demos - when are they going to get an official release? It would be great to have Make Up To Break Up and Captain Scarlet legitimately available

Turns out according to the bio "Hong Kong Garden"'s lyrics were, says La Sioux, "mentally dedicated to my local Chinese takeaway in Chislehurst High Street, which opened when I was 12 or so and at a time when there were loads of skinheads around. I was so sorry for the racist abuse that the people who worked there used to get. I always wished I was Emma Peel and that I could beat the shit out of the skinheads." Well then.

Search: Urg, that's hard. I'll go with my personal underrated fave, "Cannons"

They actually talk about that a bit in the book, so you're not alone there. Weird thing is that even though I've heard that album any number of times I can't recall for the life of me how it goes!

I was a huge, huge fan in the 80s, saw them live several times (they were shit hot) once with Robert Smith on guitar which must be like a goth's wet dream or something. But for some reason I went right off them very quickly and don't listen to them at all now (well, apart from the nostalgic tug of "Hong Kong Garden" and "Jigsaw Feeling"). Maybe it was me, maybe it was "Dear Prudence"

I too read Paytress' book (whilst on jury duty) and enjoyed it so much that I was genuinely sad when it was over.

Has anyone heard the new Creatures record? It's been getting glowing reviews.

Am I the only one who genuinely appreciates "Kiss Them for Me"?

*Thinks it's alright* - sign me up.

chapterhouse/siouxsie sample

I do like "Kiss Them for Me," I thought it was very alluring and interesting (and I loved the subject matter). Great video too -- reminds me that a decent video collection and B-side comp is WELL overdue from them.

I LOVE THAT SONG.

_Hai!_ sounds a lot like the spacier moments of _Boomerang_ with bigger, fatter drums, which of course means that I think it's GODLIKE.

Anyone hear anything about Siouxsie?

total evil riffage, amazing off kilter drum beat from budgie

(Actually, this doesn't really surprise me, but hey; I'll take every "you were right" that gets flung my way.)

search: everything, especially "Painted Bird"

destroy: who told they are dud.

Regardless, in spite of the opinion that everyone seems to be throwing around, I love the Dear Prudence cover. And Spellbound is absolutely amazing.

*sway, sway, hand flutter*

(xpost: Hmm, Atnevon's production point might explain why _Tinderbox_ is perfect; it's the fulcrum point between their two extremes.)

Actually, I think that the last time I listened to them might have been in 2001.

Um, except everyone loves their cover of "Helter Skelter" (where "everyone" actually means "me"). The problem is that the song "Dear Prudence" is an irredeemably twee piece of shitty songwriting that should be beaten with sticks.

But at least, Dead Prudence is filler to a great album, in my opinion.

"DEAD Pru-DENCE
WILL-YOU-NOT-COME-OUT-AND-PLAY
DEAD Pru-DENCE
GREET-THE-BRAND-NEW-DAY."

The problem is i am Elvis is DEAD.

But now I think "I SEE DEAD PEOPLE". Pour Prudence...

I dunno. I like every Beatles cover over the original except for that Journey cover of "It's All Too Much".

All of the Siouxsie Beatles covers are great, even that recent cover of "Blue Jay Way"

More credence for the "'Dear Prudence' is actually shitty" theory.

OT$$$

With the upcoming heatwave, it might be time to give '92 Degrees' a few spins! OMG I love that song..

Wednesday 20th October

Siouxsie Sioux guest presenting The John Peel show
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/alt/johnpeel/index.shtml

tune in !

However, it picked up!

Not as long as "Got to Get Up" off Superstition exists.

The version I saw at Lollapalooza still disturbs my soul. (Arguably it even crucifies my chest.)

(xpost)

It is a little alarming to realize how much Siouxsie Schtick Karen O has appropriated (actually The Yeah Yeah Yeahs sound like they put Scream-era Banshees on heavy repeat for the entirety of their teenage years but that's another thread) but I'll take it in whatever form I can get it.

(Apparently I am the only person who thinks "Dear Prudence" is deeply embarrassing.)

-- Dan Perry (djperr...), March 17th, 2003.

Right there with ya, Dan. Never liked their cover of "Dear Prudence."

-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), March 17th, 2003.

The Nocturne version of 'Dear Prudence' is appalling - but I quite like the shimmering quality of the single.

search: the authorised biography.

Conversely, every version of "Helter Skelter" is awesome, including U2's.

(This could only have improved Rattle and Hum.)

Everything in this paragraph makes my head spin

[Also that Jon Klein was sacked for hair-loss...Before reading that I always thought there was a rock'n'roll gene that somehow ensured that an unlikely percentage of males in the music business (except Elton John & Phil Collins) keeps a full head of hair.]

This is kind of all the reasons why I hate people encapsulated in an evil little parable.

I've been wanting to buy A Kiss in the Dreamhouse for years and years but keep waiting for the remaster and it never seems to come. *frowns*

Everything up to the "Song From the Edge Of The World" 12" has much merit.

Not too familiar with their output post - "Peek A Boo"

They had some problems with lyrics, for example this one from Arabian Knights:

Whilst you conquer more orifices
Of boys, goats and things

(oh 'things' - that'll do)

but the texture of their music is fantastic.

you have to forgive them for 'things' since the previous line uses Whilst and orifices. I always like how often SATB use the word 'Whilst'

"Waiting FOOOOOOR a sign..."

Listening to a okay-enough sounding recording from Southampton on the Juju tour in 1981 right now. Such a great band.

From 1983 until 1986 the only (then) new music i bothered with was the Banshees.

Nothing else seemed even vaguely interesting, although there was much hilarity.

I was just thinking of Siouxsie the other day -- I saw the 4CD box set used the other day, wondered if i shouldn't go ahead and pick it up. i have all but maybe two of the studio albums. is this worth my money?

Yeah, I think it's well worth it. It's got a lot of totally classic b-sides I remember, sprinkled with plenty of other stuff that wasn't quite as good but almost always interesting. It's also got a lot less of the earliest punk-style stuff than I suspected, which I was glad about.

I was thinking of them just the other day too! Some lyric came into my head..."you're not seeing/what meant to believe in/your non-excuse for a human being..." I think that was it.

i wonder if the rest of the remasters will ever come out.

Hah, I was thinking that the other day.

Box set is totally worth it for the B-sides.

Given that I've just really started getting into Siouxsie and The Banshees recently I thought I'd ressurect this thread.

I had 'Hyena' for a while which I'd bought because of the Robert Smith collection. I recently picked up 'Nocturne' on the basis of Ned's recommendation. Since then I've been super hooked. Bought "Kaleidoscope", "Juju" and "A Kiss in the Dreamhouse" which are all great as well. Will pick up "The Scream" and "Join Hands" this weekend. Given that I've started with live stuff I'm thinking about getting the BBC box when I get paid. What about the remaining albums? What should I prioritise?

I quite like the b-sides boxset: full of oddities and "experiments", but it is great great fun.

I'd pick up the remainder as they get reissued.

I think Severin confirmed somewhere that the rest of the reissues have been cancelled.

WAHT

oh that is BULLSHIT

http://stevenseverin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=557&sid=e7a3abfd7462317614a72f1d472f348e

Unacceptable.

this sucks a lot

Siouxsie and the Banshees Benched Reissues-ees?

i'm not sure those records really need to be remastered. they sound fine. it would be nice to have a full set of the whole catalogue and some other bonus tracks, but I think the critical albums were done. whether you like the mastering job on them is another thing entirely I suppose.

I was using the reissues as an excuse to build up my Banshee catalogue; before now, I had cassette copies of Hyaena, Tinderbox and Peepshow and a copy of Superstition on CD. Now I have them all up through Kiss in the Dreamhouse.

Just buy the damn things, Dan, they are super cheap used at a ton of stores.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_i_0?rh=i%3Apopular%2Ck%3Asiouxsie&keywords=siouxsie&ie=UTF8&qid=1266439875

http://www.secondspin.com/search.jsp?page=1&type=music.keyword.buy&query=siouxsie

Through The Looking Glass... great covers album or the greatest covers album?

It's the covers album that, when I was 14, turned me on to lots of bands by virtue of making me look for them. Back before the internet, that took a certain amount of work...and they didn't make it easy, not listing the original artists in the liner notes and all.

it was years before I knew that "wheel's on fire" was a cover. siouxsie's still sounds like the right one to me.

Hello. So a few weeks back there was that photo of Siouxsie, Steve Severin and Marc Almond at the _Hannibal_ season premiere event in the UK, and that was cool and all. Apparently it's just been announced that's there's a whole new Siouxsie and the Banshees track for the season finale!

https://twitter.com/TVKevLance/status/620028442172481536

I would certainly be up for some new Siouxsie with Banshees in tow!

Been playing a lot of Siouxsie lately. I don't know why this stuff never really clicked for me sixteen or seventeen years ago when I was really getting into the Cure for the first time. I certainly gave them a chance around that time — guess I just kind of glossed it all over. I was possibly wanting more of a melodic sound similar to the Cure. But, the guitar work has revealed itself on those early records to be, yes a bit more atonal, but ultimately just fantastic throughout.

And such a solid run up through and including Peepshow.

Think my fav banshees atm is a kiss in the dreamhouse

That one has some truly great material on it ('Cascade', 'Painted Bird' and especially 'Slowdive'), but it kind of feels second tier to me when surrounded by Juju and Hyæna.

Curiously, I too admire them more now than I did then. A top twenty-five.

Awesome list! Cool to see "Dazzle" on here - particularly like the "Baby Piano" version

yes!

Good summary. Their best overlooked song is "Fireworks". And "The Thorn EP" is their hidden gem.

<3 "Slowdive", it really is a disorienting listen. Agreed about the peak 3 albums, they were a big deal to me in the 80's.

Um. Where is "Night Shift"? Also, "Suburban Relapse", "Icon", "Playground Twist", "Monitor", "92 Degrees", "Land's End", "Voodoo Dolly"

For that matter, where is "Nightshift"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrkEDe6Ljqs

they could've covered "Nightshift" in the style of Peepshow.

I'm 100% behind that list.

A, LS: your essay, along with the latest Prince developments, got it in my head that S&TB and Prince were walking oddly parallel paths through the 80s, if you exchange punk roots with funk roots. 1980-1990, both had a nearly perfect run of singles that toyed with new wave, pop, psychedelia and dance music in equal measures. They were juggling kink and camp and high art, and I see a lot of matches between the mood and production on their big singles. Like, the opening to this "Dazzle" remix could easily break into "Take Me With You"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAOOUR2KCpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMzkXdiAggs

Some of it is just the gated snare and polyrhythms that were standard in 1984, but both artists were very good at balancing the gaudy and the raw and feeling like outsiders when they were right in the middle of everything.

then it all comes apart after 1988?

Fascinating analysis – thanks!

Yeah, 88 is where it gets shaky. Their respective landscapes get taken over by sample-heavy hip hop and shoegaze, trends that owed a lot to them but they were too established to comfortably capitalize upon. 3 Feet High and Rising, Isn't Anything owe them tons.

"Night Shift" is my all-time Siouxsie track

It's totally alien to me -- the omission of The Lord's Prayer from any list or overarching discussion about this band's history

I think "The Lord's Prayer" is more interesting as an artifact than it is enjoyable to listen to. I feel that way about large sections of Join Hands actually, unless I happen to be super pissed off and hating everything in which case the whole album slides into focus and is perfect.

^^^ otm

That said, "Playground Twist" and "Icon" rule

I think "The Lord's Prayer" is more interesting as an artifact than it is enjoyable to listen to.

totally disagree, but it's one of those things like tunafish sandwiches, where I acknowledge and respect the popularity of the opposite viewpoint, even though I'm shaking my head dolefully as I type.

is "The Lord's Prayer" the tuna fish sandwich

the opposite.

Jake Tapper ‏@jaketapper
A friend of Harward's says he was reluctant to take NSA job bc the WH seems so chaotic; says Harward called the offer a "shit sandwich."

Do wish there was a decent recording of their original take on Lord's Prayer from the 100 Club. Different line up improvising on the spot. May have been a better idea than execution but seems archetypal.
Marco Pirroni on guitar, was it Sid on drums?

iirc yes

Jake Tapper ‏@jaketapper
A friend of Harward's says he was reluctant to take NSA job bc the WH seems so chaotic; says Harward called the offer a "shit sandwich."

― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.),

is this what "This Wheel's On Fire" is about

Icons falling from the spiiiiiirrrrrrrres

Join Hands totally slays

You know, there's no handy Banshees anthology. I think most bands benefit from a 30-40 track roundup of their best material. Sure there's the two singles collections but that's not the same.

What about this: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Siouxsie-Banshees/dp/B00006IJXN

Looks pretty good!

It needs to be twice as long! I know there's a 2 disc version but the second disc is all remixes.

oh that's actually pretty cool, I wasn't aware that all those 12" versions were on CD

Didn't they add contemporary singles including 12" mixes to the relevant lps when they did the remasters over the last decade?

Was going to come over and say for me the John McGeoch era is the greatest in its psychy folky otherness.
There's a load of live stuff around from the era including a Rockpalast.

They didn't include anything from the "Downside Up" box when they did the reissues, only some demos and the occasional 12" mix - those are strewn about various releases as well.

This performance still sends shivers down my spine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK1ny-YPV4U

Happy belated 60th birthday Siouxsie. Your albums mean more to me the older I get. I hope you perform once again.

I will happily echo that.

Siouxsie, Love and Rockets, Iggy Pop, Echo & The Bunnymen, Adam Ant, Billy Idol playing Cruel World 2023. Details: https://t.co/IjadKbfmUP pic.twitter.com/53xUZO8FoJ

— Slicing Up Eyeballs (@slicingeyeballs) January 23, 2023

'[Siouxsie's] father was a bacteriologist who milked venom from snakes' is a joyous wikipedia fact.

While we're on this tangent, Siouxsie was included last week in a quiz round I compiled on famous Belgians (she qualifies via her father).

Cruel World is only a 20 minute drive (w/o traffic) from my house. Legit excited at dad goth lineup.

Xp hah, never knew. Saw her in Brussels on her solo tour but that was quite a detached performance

Bob Geldof too, sort of.

Come to think of it, 'milked venom from snakes' sounds like a line from the Banshees' early 80s heyday

Cruel World is only a 20 minute drive (w/o traffic) from my house. Legit excited at dad goth lineup.

― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, January 24, 2023 2:18 AM

I'm in the OC so it's a bit further for me but would love to go to this. Not sure tho as I think my festival days are behind me.

Wow, Billy Love and Echo AND Idol Rockets?

poor Gang of Four, they don't deserve the 5th line

It's a great eye chart for a punk rock ophthalmologist's office

Looks like I'm going, I have been convinced.

I heard horror stories about the heat last year so as tempting as this is, going to pass and pray she does a bay area stop (love and rockets too; I imagine they might, does david J still live here or did he move to LA?)

AFAIK, David J has been in LA for awhile now.

Drugs -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoZivXDGgYM

I love this one

Somehow always puts me in the mind of The Aloof - Abuse

I think it's how the dutdutdut is often matched by a slowly descending double. E rush kosmische or something.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2023-05-22/cruel-world-siouxsie-iggy-pop-festival

I forget which thread the cruel world fest was discussed on, but here’s Simon Reynolds review

It occurred to me that Twice Upon A Time is one of my favourite singles comps ever, but I’ve never listened to a Siouxsie album proper. Where’s good to start? (I am lukewarm on the earlier stuff.)

A Kiss in the Dreamhouse is the one I revisit most. Or Peepshow if that’s too early.

Start with the albums that have your favorite Twice songs on them

Peepshow became a fave when I read the 33 1/3 book on it. Recently been listening to Tinderbox since hearing “Land’s End” live

Also, Downside Up is the best b-side 4xCD box. I’ll fight with it in the reissue goth war

Tinderbox was my first and all these years later has settled into my fave (Scream a close second)

DJP otm

Of their many strangenesses, they're a perfect singles band with very cohesive albums. The ...Upon at Time comps are intense, joyful, and unaccountably earwormy. The albums are intense, oppressive and the singles melt perfectly into the moodiness, the joy reconfigured.

I might be the only fan of gloss to have disliked "Face to Face" since 1992. Stephen Hague + the Banshees didn't pair well.

It’s great at the goth club. And the b-sides were pretty fun too

I came around on tunafish sandwiches and still love listening to The Lords Prayer …

I bought Hyæna and Tinderbox around the time of release, saw the Through the Looking Glass tour and opening for David Bowie at Angel Stadium Glass Spider. But none of that comes close to Siouxsie and the Banshees - Juju poll

Been a SATB fan since I first saw the video for "The Passenger" on 120 Minutes in the 80s (didn't even know that it was an Iggy cover yet), but somehow I'd just never gotten around to listening to 'The Rapture' until I heard "Stargazer" on a "vintage alternative"-type radio show. Now I've heard it and think it's great! I guess that was a quality effort to sign off with, and I might think it's even a click or two better than 'Superstition.'

Definitely. Rapture was good but their time had passed. Superstition is the only low point in their discography

Also, Downside Up is the best b-side 4xCD box. I’ll fight with it in the reissue goth war

If I could second this.

Definitely. Rapture was good but their time had passed. Superstition is the only low point in their discography

Of the two times I saw them, Lolla 91 was good but yeah I remember thinking that beyond a couple of killer singles that was an uneven effort to be touring for, putting it mildly. But I did see The Rapture tour stop at the Wiltern and that was really lovely -- the songs from that album killed live, the overall setlist and crowd vibes were great. It kinda put a pin in everything just so, so I never bothered with the reunion. (Did see the Creatures with John Cale a few years later and that was a fine addendum, though I do regret not seeing the Boomerang tour in 1990.)

Downside Up is fantastic - I listen to CD1 of that more than most actual Banshees albums though the other discs are almost as great.

The Rapture is a top five Banshees CD imo

Feels like Superstition was their (weak) attempt to break the American mainstream, while Rapture was them saying fuck it (would also reflected in the set lists of both tours).

I love Shadowtime. Also love love love the b-sides Staring Back and Return. Great memories of Dear Prudence on the first Lollapalooza tour at sunset.

Thanks for recommendations! Still exploring but I…

- forgot how truly amazing “dazzle” is
- should probably add making the connection to this and “happy house” to the “things I was really old before” thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgRq-MXBkTM

Happy birthday, Severin!

this thread prompted me to dig out Once Upon A Time, except my copy is on tape so i had to recreate it from the lps a track at a time. didn't have the single version of Israel but did have the 12" version. and i had to stop after Candyman because i have nothing newer. but nice to be reminded.

yes, Dazzle is good, but the extended version sounds a lot like a cd skipping. was probably ground-breaking at the time.

(also included Metal Postcard because it was a single but curiously missed from Once...)

Budgie memoir announced. Unfortunately no way I can find yet to preorder on paper in US.

And on top of that!

https://thejohnmckay.bandcamp.com/album/sixes-and-sevens

McKay's burgeoning status as the anti-guitar hero was halted when he and Banshees drummer Kenny Morris - at odds with Siouxsie and bassist Steve Severin - fled the band just after the start of a tour supporting the group's second album, Join Hands. It was a weekly music paper scandal, later the subject of a BBC documentary, and Siouxsie's vitriol working its way into the lyrics of a later Banshees b-side, "Drop Dead / Celebration". Aside from a solitary single on Marc Riley's In Tape label nearly a decade later, no music was heard from McKay again.

So it comes as a major surprise to learn of a pile of excellent recordings made in the years just after he left The Banshees, unheard by all but a very few, some of which feature drummer Kenny Morris, plus Mick Allen from Rema Rema, Matthew Seligman of the Soft Boys and longer-term collaborator Graham Dowdall and John's wife Linda . . . the latter three of whom are now sadly deceased.



WHAT

argh not released until May 6th

oooh!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhPUScImUU4

There are some quotes from Steve Severin in the Lollapalooza oral history book that are so gratuitously dickish I'm genuinely unsure whether they're meant to be sarcastic or not.

incredible, thank you xp

totally new to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02K1U8otN7Q

Sounds like it's been a bit of a success, that album! And apparently well received at live shows too, I like the photo of him and Johnny Marr together backstage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCCxG5V5oks

^ Budgie of Siouxsie And The Banshees started out in nightclub cabaret acts, aged 13

he was on radio 4's A Good Read recently talking about Nausea - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002f8tl