Chinese Democracy has a release date!

oh, it's a funny.

-- The Man Who Cried "Wolf!" (buckethea...), January 11th, 2005.

fuck i missed it.

Am I the first person to make that joke?...

Oh...never mind.

* Audio CD (December 31, 2025)
* Amazon.com Sales Rank: #2,395 in Music

The Legendary Okeh and Epic Recordings
Ahmad Jamal

* Audio CD (August 16, 2005)
* Amazon.com Sales Rank: #45,327 in Music

Sigh...

However, i had my doubts today when richard fortus, the g n r rhythm guitraist stated he was going back to do some recording with guns n roses after his side project finishes in december. So whats the deal? Unless he is just involved with the mixing and finishing touches? see www.heretodaygonetohell.com to check out the richard fortus news for yourself.

Alex I think it might be something of an event, and certainly I'm more curious to hear it than I would have been if it'd come out three years after the Illusion discs - though obviously the problem is that nobody under thirty-five would really give a shit

New G'nR album: "almost like doom metal"
Artists: Guns N Roses

The new Guns N' Roses album, Chinese Democracy, has received the seal of approval from former Skid Row man Sebastian Bach. And he knows a thing or two 'bout The Rock.

The long-awaited album, which must've been started back when Axl Rose looked like that, is out next month. Apparently. Bach heard the record from start to finish at Rose's mansion in Malibu.

"It's fucking epic," said Bach. "It was mind-blowing. It's a very cool album - it's badass with killer screams and killer guitar riffs, but it's got a totally modern sound.

"There's this one song called 'Sorry', that's almost like doom metal with Axl singing really clean over this grinding, slow beat that is fucking mean. I cannot get it out of my head."

The unofficial, not-yet-confirmed release date for Chinese Democracy is November 21. Don't hold your breath.

Sorta kinda, in a morbidly curious way.

Being excited by something Sebastian Bach likes is forbidden by law.

I can imagine him getting excited if he sees a swinging gate.
And just imagine his reaction if he saw a bendy bus.

Hearing one aging rocker describe the album of another aging rocker this way almost guarantees that it's shit.

Looks like a NYPost headline if I ever saw one.

-- Ned Raggett (ne...), November 2nd, 2006 2:21 AM. (Ned) (link)

But Ned... he likes long hair :-/

i can see the Onion headline: "GNR Fan Dies From Holding Breath Too Long"

Sebastian Bach, though...

"The new phone book's here! The new phone book's here! Page 73 - Bach, Sebastian P.! Millions of people look at this book everyday!"

i just can't imagine that the songwriting's gonna be good if this thing's ever released. sure there might be contributions from about 40 guitarists, but how can this thing not be wildly erratic and inconsistent at best and plain abysmal at worst.

ps. i was listening to illusion 1 earlier today at work. sounding painfully dated and overproduced.

it will probably be better than smile.

http://www.soundgenerator.com/news/showarticle.cfm?articleid=8608

Universal doesn't know about a release date for the album = not before February 2007, at the earliest.

This never came out, did it?

it came out in January and it's been selling like hotcakes in the US

certified diamond as of July

Axl hates Finland, you'll never hear it over there.

You can't even download it from a Finnish IP.

AXEL IS WAITING FOR DEMOCRACY TO FINNALLLY ARRIVE IN CHINA BEFORE HE RELEASES THIS LONG-AWAITED GNR OPUS!!! THEN HE CAN HAVE A KIND OF RIBBON-CUTTING TICKER-TAPE PARADE IN THE HEART OF SHANGHAI TO COINCIDE WITH IT'S RELEASE!!!!@ THIS IS FEASIBLE!!! CHINA HAS A FREE MARKET ECONOMY AFTER ALLL!!!!@@

In the future people will be nostalgic for zeitgeist-defining music that was never even released, only hyped. Axl is aware of things you only wish you knew.

are you referring to the latest smashing pumpkins release there? i hope so

what will happen if this actually does come out (outside of the US)?

i'm not sure GNR's new salsa/motorik sound won't work as well as it does in the suburbs here.

if and when this comes out, if it doesn't sound like the aural equivalent of an *amazing* nut after 15 years of mounting and unsatiated sexual tension, then it will probably only go platinum.

17th September according to Amazon

they shouldn't allow people to 'review' albums on amazon before they're released.

Amazon release dates are meaningless. It's not coming out in a month.

http://musicametal.blogosfere.it/images/gennaio2007/axl-rose-playboy-bunnies.jpg
This is the album cover.

Jim Norton, what did you do with Axl? By the way, the wig could use a little work, bro.

In the future people will be nostalgic for zeitgeist-defining music that was never even released, only hyped.

Ah, remember when we waited for Detox, the MF Doom/Ghostface album, Helter Skelter, Extra P's The Album?

You could go on & on with Hip Hop albums.

is that really axl in the picture? looks more like a hybrid of eric stoltz and an anonymous wax carving

he actually kind of resembles the suspect in this news story:

http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/9129056.html

the handful of finished songs i've DL'd are pretty interesting. i still don't know how to feel about them.

is that really axl in the picture? looks more like a hybrid of eric stoltz and an anonymous wax carving
Yes, that's him. He happens to look like a wax carving now:
http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Events/1492/AxlRoseand_Mazur_588824_400.jpghttp://i.imdb.com/Photos/Events/5121/AxlRoseand_Mazur_10151819_400.jpg

http://www.old.sapo.pt/gfx/391506.jpg

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/img/music/axlrosario3.jpg

"choooooooc-late raaaiiiiiiiiin"

The demos are absolutely awesome and it's lame that people keep ignoring them.

If the music's so awesome, put it out!

yeah, i mightn't be ignoring the songs so much if they were actually released.

does dizzy reed do some good keyboard solos on the demos?

i dreamt that this actually came out. one of the most surreal, unlikely dreams i've ever had. and i've had some real vivid zingers

Was it any good?

the critics thought it was solid, had 16 tracks, lots of people had bought it...

omg i bet that CHINA ACTUALLY HAS DEMOCRACY!! before this comes out!!!11!!!!!!!!!

That joke never gets old!

the critics thought it was solid, had 16 tracks, lots of people had bought it...

but did it wake you up or did you continue sleeping?

Hah - I dreamt two nights ago that the Sisters of Mercy were releasing a new album. It was called 'Halo' and the cover had a cool stylised eclipse on the traditional black background. I actually hesitated for a second yesterday at the record store whether to go look for it...

IRL the odds of that coming true are about the same as for 'Chinese Democracy'.

This is going to be the soundtrack to Duke Nukem Forever.

hahahaha

stan, i think i must've kept sleeping.

frankly, i think a dream about a new sisters of mercy record would be much more entertaining.

rumour has it that neither 'sympathy for the devil' or 'oh my god' will be featured on the next gnr offering. one-time, long-time rose accomplice paul huge confirmed this via satellite from his home in tucson, arizona where he's presently working on material for the deut release of his new outfit 'the rabid bonanzas'. 'the rabid bonanzas' is also set to feature jani lane (warrant) and pat torpey (mr. big)

"yeah, i mightn't be ignoring the songs so much if they were actually released."

I don't see the logic in this statement. Do you only listen to CDs that have liner notes?

I had a dream the Cult released a new album but I didn't buy it u_u

I like how it looks like he has Lucky Charms in his hair. I'd probably be more interested in buying this album if that were true.

That or if he started earnest collaborations with Merzbow and Just Blaze.

Burmese Democracy.

paul huge is apparently huge into the new gnr

this album is gonna suck bananas

http://pressreleasetosaveworld.blogspot.com/

http://www.chinesedemocracywhen.blogspot.com/

????

yes, Dr. Pepper has made this offer only through two Blogspot blogs, not through their own site

but of course

I know, it all sounds VERY unlikely, but it's being reported on more and more sites

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03262008/gossip/pagesix/doctors_orders_103529.htm

and
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pepper+chinese+democracy&btnG=Google+Search

three blogs
http://chinese-democracy.blogspot.com/

On the other hand, if it's a promotional trick to create some innernet buzz for the album, then I've been helping! Sorry :-(((

they took that vile dr. pepper concoction off the market about 10 years ago here.

I started to suspect a while ago that this whole thing is a protracted conceptual joke.

"Jaxie Alt"?

i get butterflies in my stomach every time i see this thread back on top of the board.

http://stollenwerck.blogspot.com/2004/10/and-from-jaxie-stollenwerck-alt.html

Final paragraph here = ?

http://alchemist.ketchum.com/?q=node/875

Still looks real, folks. Jaxie Alt, Chris Kooluris and Ketchum.com all check out, even though they all sound fake initially

you wanna c&p that ketchum thing, it wants a login/pass

"Our Dr. Pepper client (thanks to Kooluris) is beginning to learn this lesson on the PR side, and it has paid off handsomely with several succesful "disruptive" pr campaigns. Our challenge is to convince other brands in search of the elusive male cohort to do likewise."

( alchemist.ketchum.com is a blog thing by the staff of ketchum, a PR company for food brands - even though that "catch them" sounds really crappy and hoaxy, it isn't)

This is on the official Cadbury Schweppes (that owns the Dr. Pepper brand) website:

http://brandspeoplelove.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=45

holy hell

Sorry for the long birthing of that official link, that's how most of my revives happen, unfortunately :-/

worth it! I suspect all that soda is plenty safe though

I presume GnR has arranged a deal to unveil CD during the olympic ceremony, with Dr. P basking in the spotlight.

"Yo, Dr. P!"

Giant talking can: "What up, kid"

"the elusive male cohort"

hahah. beijing olympics. gold!

otherwise, i'm sure axl is tempted by the prospect of being rewarded with a can of soft drink in exchange for unveiling the fruits of his 'chinese democracy' project on the public

Ol' Doc P

If that is the "official" Cadbury Schweppes website, then what is this?

http://www.cadburyschweppes.com/EN

Olympic rings scored into the playing field by several mammoth cans which are airlifted out during the opening ceremony and pop open at the musical climax, showering all spectators with a rain of carbonated syrup

video for the lead single will include axl swimming in a pool filled with dr. P, surrounded by candles, high up in the hollywood hills

No mention of free Dr. Pepper on their press release page:

http://www.cadburyschweppes.com/EN/MediaCentre/PressReleases/

tuomas it seems like the first page is strictly for beverages whereas the one you linked to is their site for all their various stuffs

guys stop spoiling the fun

"It took a little patience to perfect Dr Pepper's special mix of 23 ingredients, which our fans have come to know and love," Dr Pepper director of marketing Jaxie Alt says. "So we completely understand and empathize with Axl's quest for perfection -- for something more than the average album. We know once it's released, people will refer to it as 'Dr Pepper for the ears' because it will be such a refreshing blend of rich, bold sounds - an instant classic."

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003741826

people will refer to it as 'Dr Pepper for the ears' because it will be such a refreshing blend of rich, bold sounds

What the...

where's that massive list/picture gallery of off brand Dr. Peppers

aha i got it

"Brands People Love" = Cadbury Schweppes Americas Beverages

"Cadbury Shweppes.com" = Cadbury Schweppes International

I still suspect it's a hoax. Brandspeoplelove.com isn't even listed among their various brand sites on their official pages.

"Sweet one minute and fierce the next, bold and rich, Chinese Democracy is like a cadbury egg: crack it open and taste the cream of the crop. ****"
-Mojo's

News Releases
Americas Beverages to Become an Independent Company

PLANO, Texas, Oct. 10 /PRNewswire/ -- Cadbury Schweppes Americas Beverages will become an independent company following the completion of the proposed spin-off from Cadbury Schweppes plc announced earlier today

man what am i doing

wow this is mad awes real or not

NetTools Whois query

whois -h whois.ebrandsecure.com brandspeoplelove.com

Registrant:
Cadbury Schweppes Plc
Janet Street
Level 2, Franklin House
Bournville, Birmingham B30 2NB
United Kingdom
gr✧✧✧.tradema✧✧✧@cs✧✧✧.c✧✧
44.1216257 Fax: 44.12169849

it's real if billboard says it is

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003741826

This seems about as likely to happen as democracy in Ch... oh forget it.

ah, how I love these post-modern 00's

HOOS this is going to be Cloverfield all over again for you, isn't it

lol

Now that Chinese democracy seems to be further away than it has been for a while, then maybe GnR will be able to win the duel anyway? Only time will tell, but don't expect anything new from Axl Rose this side of 2020.

Guns N' Roses vocalist Axl Rose issued the following comment regarding the Dr. Pepper offer:

"We are surprised and very happy to have the support of Dr. Pepper with our album Chinese Democracy as for us this came totally out of the blue. If there is any involvement with this promotion by our record company or others we are unaware of such at this time. And as some of Buckethead's performances are on our album I'll share my Dr. Pepper with him. ~ Axl Rose"

Credit: Bravewords.com

haha, this is all so ludicrous

WOW I WONDER IF CHINA WILL *ACTUALLY HAVE DEMOCRACY* BEFORE THIS COMES OUT?!?1??!1!!!!!

I love how Axl uses the first person plural as if band membership really applied to anybody besides him at this point

It's the royal we. We're all in GnR at this point, and Axl speaks for us.

"we are unaware of such at this time"

This is how insecure schoolchildren write, trying to sound dignified and smart by using faintly legalistic language. Is anyone in this whole sorry PR ooze-up even a professional? I get the impression that all these people have xeroxed business cards and hastily mocked-up web sites.

I get the impression that dude is a major paranoiac who does it all himself.

meanwhile

"And as some of Buckethead's performances are on our album I'll share my Dr. Pepper with him."

This is brilliant.

axl rose seemed like the most unlikely musical auteur all those years ago, i would not have expected dude in skinny leather pants slithering around offering to be my serpentine to turn into Brian Wilson

Buckethead, Performances

i would love a neo-classical clusterfuck buckethead album

"i would love a neo-classical clusterfuck buckethead album"

Octave of the Holy Innocents might be what you're looking for.

"axl rose seemed like the most unlikely musical auteur all those years ago, i would not have expected dude in skinny leather pants slithering around offering to be my serpentine to turn into Brian Wilson"

It was hard to expect it with Brian Wilson as well, right?

I think a lot of people saw it coming with Peter Gabriel though.

Man, some kid at Dr. Pepper HQ is going to get a well-deserved promotion.

but what if they have to pay up

They never said anything about when they'd be giving out those cans, so they might just as well wait 17 years with that as well

hahah. how many people are actually going to go out there and claim their 'chinese democracy' can of dr. pepper. i mean, seriously.

Man, when Mr. Pibb became Pibb X-Treme, Dr. Pepper must have thought it lost the kids and the heshers. Now it's going to get them back.

"This is how insecure schoolchildren write, trying to sound dignified and smart by using faintly legalistic language."

This is how insecure liberal arts majors write, justifying their shit PR gigs by zinging Axl Rose and xeroxed business cards.

damn son

they never stated how they would give each consumer in the country (world?) one and exactly one Dr. Pepper can, while preventing fraudulent claims of multiple cans.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chinese-Democracy-Guns-N-Roses/dp/B000NQDFP8/ref=sr_1_5/203-6517763-6991133?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1191260804&sr=1-5

Looks like we might all be sharing a refreshing Dr. Pepper together after all

We are surprised and very happy to have the support of Dr Pepper with our album "Chinese Democracy," as for us, this came totally out of the blue. If there is any involvement with this promotion by our record company or others, we are unaware of such at this time. And as some of Buckethead's performances are on our album, I'll share my Dr Pepper with him.

Axl Rose

Whoa I missed that strgn "zing"! sorry if i touched a nerve, broslice

Now ten years into his 'membership', I still find it strange that Tommy Stinson is the bassist for Guns 'n Roses. At least to me, that is still one of the oddest nuggets in this colossal pile.

That much, if any, older than the other GnR members.

Man, this is exciting, isn't it? (no news, just reviving to let you know how exciting this waiting still is)

Duke Nukem Democracy

What are you talking about? It came out last Tuesday.

shit supposedly leaked according to idolater but the songs had to get taken down

anyone grab them before they were gone??

it's up on isohunt.

Yeah, I got 'em this morning. It sounds real good to me.

check yr mail, m@tt

thank u stan!

>raises hand<

this should be the only release of the album

Gracias

Title track sounds seriously batty.

send to me plz ^_^

didn't we ban ysi threads precisely so as to avoid the profound embarrassment of threads which are 1/2 begging for links/emails (ok & for legal shit too)

yep - but there's no links here and I've only sent them a link to this album

And the title track is batty!

btw if this is rick astley i'm gonna be pissed but i probably also have it coming

If you like it, there's more, a lot more!

http://www.dekermisklanten.nl/Discografie.htm

I came for the chinese democracy, but i stayed for the accordion.

the MLK "I have a dream" speech samples wtf

lol accordion

the MLK "I have a dream" speech samples wtf

this is OTM btw

I'm writing a piece about this so I'm not gonna say much more but yeah, the MLK parts really sort of form this wtf nexus of what Axl is all about

#1 WTF moment: OTM on the MLK
#2 WTF: the flamenco/chill-out/porn-funk song, which I'm starting to really like

yeah that flamenco thing has a bit of like arabic sounding disco at the very beginning.

this stuff sounds sort of like everything and like nothing else. i can't really explain it.

WOW I WONDER IF CHINA WILL *ACTUALLY HAVE... o shi

this stuff sounds sort of like everything and like nothing else. i can't really explain it.

OTFM (nail = hit on head)

OK rockcrits, plz explain to us this mysterious Kermis Klanten record.

They're Dutch and their site has a link to De Alpenzusjes (the Alp Sisters) who have a very impressive discography as well: http://www.alpenzusjes.nl/Discografie.htm

mmm//// I want to hear this, someone send

use one google

I had no interest in this whatsoever but you guys are making it sound incredible. Flamenco/arab-disco/chill-out/porn funk? MLK quotes!? Jesus Christ!

Forgot: Accordian!?

Its NEVER coming out is it? I have lost all faith.
Actually I lost that faith when Axle got cornrows then got bitch slapped by Tommy fucking Hilfiger. Shit is not looking optimistic.

Shit is not looking optimistic

er.. with the leak of nine seemingly complete songs, it seems to be looking as optimistic as one could possibly hope at this point (after nearly a decade of empty promises). 3/4 Chinese Democracy is better than no Chinese Democracy at this point, right? Actually, I have no idea how many songs are supposed to be on the "real" album.

I wouldn't put it past Axl to be so pissed off by this leak that he shuts himself in the studio for five more years and redoes the entire thing.

^^^Thats what I'm saying. I know we have actual 'leaked' songs now but still that means JACK. I want a release date and promo ads and a jumped up pretentious review in Pitchfork or a sarcastic/slobbering one in NME 'fore I feel hopeful.

Well, consider these traxx a cultural artifact then, and enjoy them as such. The word on the street is legit, insofar as if these songs are in any way "incomplete," they are officially the most complete "incomplete" songs in the history of the music.

"history of the music"

I really hope this accordion thing becomes part of the rumors about the album :-)

You know, it's like this material transcends anything you can label good or bad. Strangest thing.

*wallflower pose*

Funny picture of Axl:
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/wenn/20080624/img/pen-sorum-guns-n-roses-reun-1e445111c1fb0.html

love the adam savage facial hair

He obviously moisturises.

The more I listen to "Better" the more awesome it gets.

Hence the name?

Post-headshave Britney having demonstrated just how convincing high-end weaves can be, isn't it time for Axl to lay the cornrows to rest? Those things have gotta go.

All the uproar left aside, these leaked songs still sound like something he could've done in 9 months instead of 9 years. Or could've been released in 2001. Axl sure tricked me into believing I'd be listening to some godlike genius music like Bach, amirite?

What the hell! Guns N Roses is one of my favorite bands of all time but you guys and the rest of the internet made me think this wouldn't suck balls. This is like Limp Bizkit bad. Seriously.

isn't it time for Axl to lay the cornrows to rest?

I'm not sure it's even possible at this point. That shit's tighter than a wicker patio chair.

i'm disappointed with these songs. not as good as the people above are making it sound, and i'm a reasonably big gnr fan

of course it's gonna be bad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBJiMJtFdMI

those 9 songs are weak as fuck

I prefer GNR back when Scott Weiland was the singer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcNkx6eSzRM

The album is also to be released as a 'Best Buy exclusive'

The elusive snipe.

Billboard article:

Best Buy is set to be the exclusive retailer for Guns N' Roses decade-plus-in-the-making new album "Chinese Democracy" before year's end, sources close to the situation tell Billboard. Some details of the deal are still being worked out, including the release date.

lol

ha, I had totally forgot Buckethead was involved in this...this is some very Bucketheaded shit.

This sounds like Heart.

In that Axl sounds like a woman.

I pretty much love all the parts where they're trying not to sound like Guns N Roses in order to build UP to the parts that are supposed to sound like Guns N Roses, which all suck, but not quite gloriously.

that's really well said

what the fuck, supposedly Shaquille O'Neal SINGS backup on this album?

http://www.gnrlies.com/chinesedemocracy.html

at least he doesn't rap backup

hahaha

Title: Chinese Democracy
Record Label: Geffen/Interscope
Expected: Late 2003
Producer: Sean Beavan, Eric Caudieux, Roy Thomas Baker

Guns N' Roses' Chinese Democracy release date set

Shit:

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/oct/10/chinese-democracy-release-date-set[/url]

so, do best buy stock dr pepper ?

I don't really care about Guns N Roses, but here's more news on the Dr. Pepper front:

(Oct. 17) -- When Dr. Pepper promised that it would give every American a free can of their soda if Guns N Roses released the 17-years-in-the-making 'Chinese Democracy,' they probably figured it would never happen. But now that the band has announced a November release date for the legendary unreleased album, the soda company isn't running away from its giveaway.
Talking with MTV, a Dr. Pepper spokesperson said that they'll wait until the album is actually released to discuss their plans further, but that coupons will somehow be distributed online. "People will go on Dr Pepper's Web site and we will send them a coupon for a free one. It's going to be real easy," the spokesperson said.

http://www.popeater.com/music/article/dr-pepper-to-make-good-on-their/215673

xxpost - axl looks rather chubby in that pic.

Song "Chinese Democracy" released to radio! Listen to it here:

http://www.q1043.com/pages/news/gunsnroses/

my favorite part is where the backing vocal says "music on demand!" about 2:02 minutes into it.

How lame. This album was never supposed to come out. Guns 'n Roses were more interesting when the album had mystique to it. Now it'll never measure up. What idiots!

That song is bloody GREAT. What an unexpected surprise.

has this leaked yet?

After all this time, I don't even want a proper leak of it. I want to walk in the store, buy it, and be surprised (or not surprised if it's bad).

Every time I look outside my door I see two or three massive posters for this. It's kinda cool.

this song isn't terrible

it actually SOUNDS LIKE guns n roses

Got this emailed to me

Guns N' Roses
Chinese Democracy
RS: 4of 5 Stars
2008 Let's get right to it: The first Guns n' Roses album of new, original songs since the first Bush administration is a great, audacious, unhinged and uncompromising hard-rock record. In other words, it sounds a lot like the Guns n' Roses you know. At times, it's the clenched-fist five that made 1987's perfect storm, Appetite for Destruction; more often, it's the one sprawled across the maxed-out CDs of 1991's Use Your Illusion I and II, but here compressed into a convulsive single disc of supershred guitars, orchestral fanfares, hip-hop electronics, metallic tabernacle choirs and Axl Rose's still-virile, rusted-siren singing.

If Rose ever had a moment's doubt or repentance over what Chinese Democracy has cost him in time (13 years), money (14 studios are listed in the credits) and body count — including the exit of every other founding member of the band — he left no room for it in these 14 songs. "I bet you think I'm doin' this all for my health," Rose cracks through the saturation-bombing guitars in "I.R.S.," one of several glancing references on the album to what he knows a lot of people think of him: that Rose, now 46, has spent the last third of his life running off the rails, in half-light. But when he snaps, "All things are possible/I am unstoppable," in the thumper "Scraped," that's not loony hubris — just a good old rock & roll "fuck you," the kind that made him and the old band hot and famous in the first place.

Something else Rose broadcasts over and over on Chinese Democracy: Restraint is for suckers. There is plenty of familiar guitar firepower — the stabbing-dagger lick that opens the first track, "Chinese Democracy," the sand-devil fuzz in "Riad N' the Bedouins" and the looping squeals over the grand anguish of "Street of Dreams." But what Slash and Izzy Stradlin used to do with two guitars now takes a wall of 'em. On some tracks, Rose has up to five guys — Robin Finck, Buckethead, Paul Tobias, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal and Richard Fortus — riffing and soloing in broad, saw-toothed blurs. And that's no drag. I still think the wild, superstuffed "Oh My God" — the early Chinese Democracy track wasted on the 1999 End of Days soundtrack — beats everything on Guns n' Roses' 1993 covers album, The Spaghetti Incident?

Most of these songs also go through multiple U-turns in personality, as if Rose kept trying new approaches to a hook or a bridge and then decided, "What the hell, they're all cool." "Better" starts with what sounds like hip-hop voicemail — severely pinched guitar, drum machine and a near-falsetto Rose ("No one ever told me when/I was alone/They just thought I'd know better") — before blowing up into vintage Sunset Strip wallop. "If the World" has Buckethead plucking acoustic Spanish guitar over a blaxploitation-film groove, while Rose shows that he still holds a long-breath vowel — part torture victim, part screaming jet — like no other rock singer.

And there is so much going on in "There Was a Time" — strings and Mellotron, a full-strength choir and Rose's overdubbed sour-growl harmonies, wah-wah guitar and a false ending (more choir) — that it's easy to believe Rose spent most of the past decade on that arrangement alone. But it is never a mess, more like a loud mass of bad memories and hard lessons. In the first lines, Rose goes back to a beginning much like his own — "Broken glass and cigarettes/ Writin' on the wall/It was a bargain for the summer/An' I thought I had it all" — then piles on the wreckage along with the orchestra and guitars. By the end, it's one big melt of missing and kiss-off ("If I could go back in time . . . But I don't want to know it now"). If this is the Guns n' Roses that Rose kept hearing in his head all this time, it is obvious why two guitars, bass and drums were never going to be enough.

It is plain, too, that he thinks this Guns n' Roses is a band, as much as the one that recorded "Welcome to the Jungle," "Sweet Child O' Mine," "Used to Love Her" and "Civil War." The voluminous credits that come with Chinese Democracy certainly give detailed credit where it is due. My favorite: "Initial arrangement suggestions: Youth on 'Madagascar." Rose takes the big one — "Lyrics N' Melodies by Axl Rose" — but shares full-song bylines with other players on all but one track. Bassist Tommy Stinson plays on nearly every song, and keyboardist Dizzy Reed, the only survivor from the Illusion lineup, does the Elton John-style piano honors on "Street of Dreams."

But Rose still sings a lot about the power of sheer, solitary will even when he throws himself into a bigger fight, like "Chinese Democracy." In "Madagascar," which Rose has played live for several years now, he samples both Dr. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech and dialogue from Cool Hand Luke. And at the end of the album, on the bluntly titled "Prostitute," Rose veers from an almost conversational tenor, over a ticking-bomb shuffle, to five-guitar barrage, orchestral lightning and righteous howl: "Ask yourself/Why I would choose/To prostitute myself/To live with fortune and shame." To him, the long march to Chinese Democracy was not about paranoia and control. It was about saying "I won't" when everyone else insisted, "You must." You may debate whether any rock record is worth that extreme self-indulgence. Actually, the most rock & roll thing about Chinese Democracy is he doesn't care if you do.

Sounds like a press-kit dossier to me.

or a Rolling Stone review.

same dif lol

Yeah, I called the 5-star RS review three years ago.

it's not a 5-star review

so basically, it sucks

You may debate whether any rock record is worth that extreme self-indulgence. Actually, the most rock & roll thing about Chinese Democracy is he doesn't care if you do.

so, the most rock & roll dudes ever are the guys from dragonforce?

dragonforce have self-awareness going for them: their fans come to them expecting and demanding the indulgence, so they do their damndest to deliver. I think the PR man's point is that Axl did what he wanted and doesn't give a fuck what the fans or press say about it.

I'm an idiot. I skimmed right over the by-line that mentioned it WAS an RS review.

"Riad N' the Bedouins", huh

Guitars on that song sound kind of lame, like they should be on the soundtrack to one of the them cyber-action films from the late 90s: Swordfish with John Travolta or something like that.

the compression on this shit will make sick mouthy's head asssplode

haha IRS came up on shuffle earlier and I was like WTF (I forgot downloading the leak entirely)

I never thought I would actually hold Chinese Democracy in my hands.

Although I haven't opened it yet, so there may very well be a blank disc inside.

I think I will never actually hold Chinese Democracy in my hands.

There's a myspace listening party thing on myspace right now.

My friends and I are going to have a listening party today, where we listened to each track and then discuss. One of my friends wanted to make it a formal affair, with hors d'oeuvres and black ties and everything, but I'm lazy.

Sounds like you have cool friends

I'm expecting a life-changing experience here.

It's actually a reallll good album for a wandering "so rock is dead, right?" discussion.

also for drunken lolling

to be honest if there were any possibility that they might do things like what J3ff & his friends are doing, I might actually take the daring step of making friends

better safe than sorry though

"You like to have me jump and be good...

But I...

http://www.mondotees.com/ProductImages/bangonicons/count.jpg
DON'T WANT TO DO IT!!!"

Listening to this now makes me realize that Axl was always the least important part of Guns N' Roses for me. I mean, I kind of knew that already. But NO SLASH/DUFF/IZZY, no credibility (and no quality control).

First impressions: first half and "Madagascar" are pretty rad, but it gets really boring once it devolvesinto the ballads, and nothing as instantly catchy as their best work.

overall i think it's pretty great, although i have to grit my teeth through some of the more egregious/wtf moments (the aforementioned "don't twant to dooo eet," the ever-recurring plinky piano and flamenco guitar, the muted trip-hop beats). i'm not gonna go out of my way to disagree with the critics, but i do like the vocals and most of the songwriting and how well axl hits his marks. that one melodramatic pop-goth ballad towards the end is intriguing -- it sounds like it could be a chart hit by rhianna or kelly clarkson.

i also sheepishly admit that i bought the thing on both cd AND vinyl.

i keep listening to this.

also as i said to my bf as we were listening to it, the past guns 'n' roses albums were axl going on about why he hated women, and on this one, he's wondering why women hate him.

Apparently, the Chinese authorities don't like the album title. :)

i also sheepishly admit that i bought the thing on both cd AND vinyl.

― the birdman from the hilarious "alcatraz" prison (get bent), Monday, November 24, 2008 9:29 PM (23 seconds ago) Bookmark

have u no shame

no shame in my game

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/0a/a2/6f5492c008a0a0b0b7b4c010._AA240_.L.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/pauldoyle/magma1970.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vaqCjVyoA_c/SSsVXnyoH8I/AAAAAAAABts/kHTYXqQlt8w/s1600-h/Chinese-Democracy-Star-Artwork.jpg

Dammit, the link to the bizarre new interior GnR artwork, which bears a striking resemblance to that Magma cover, isn't showing. Blah technofear

It should be here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vaqCjVyoA_c/SSsVXnyoH8I/AAAAAAAABts/kHTYXqQlt8w/s1600-h/Chinese-Democracy-Star-Artwork.jpg

I listened to one song, couldn't get any further. this kind of whiteboy bombast just ain't my thing.

I'll stick to listening to "D'Ya Know What I Mean?".

zots otm

I saw a whole rack of these in HMV yesterday.

How to look like "just another album"

Possibly because I don't care about them.

Carry on.

Carry On Guns N' Roses starring Sid James as Axl Rose, now there would have been a thing.

Terry Scott as 'Lord' Buckethead...

The name "Izzy Stradlin" is worthy of Talbot Rothwell.

Bernard Breslaw as Slash (they can do the Sid'n'Bernie double act thing).
Charles Hawtrey as Dizzy Reed.
Barbara Windsor as Stephanie Seymour.

Sid: "Now Bernie, trust me. I'm going to put a string section on this track."
Bernie: "Oh no, Sid, I... don't think you should do that!"
Sid: "It'll be alright. A string section is supposed to be relaxing!"
Bernie: "But Sid, when I like to relax, I like to be standing in front of a wall of Marshall amps."
Sid: "Bernie Bernie Bernie... Where's your sense of adventure? You can relax listening to a string section. Just put your hands behind your back, like Prince Philip..."

(Bernie puts hands behind back not realising that Stephanie Seymour is busy setting up her equipment behind him)
Babs: "COR BLIMEY WHO JUST SQUEEZED ME WAH WAH PEDAL?"
Trombone: "wah wah wah waaaah"

It would be great if it turns out that Chinese Democracy syncs to Carry On Camping (like Dark Side Of The Moon/Wizard Of Oz is urban legended to)

Seen on Sunday around 6.30p, down Sydney Road (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Road); four bikers, one with sidecar, all with 'Chinese Democracy' flags on the back of their bikes. I was listening to Genesis at the time.

Streaming this on myspace and liking it

This I Love = awesome

I guess my only thing I find lacking that was there in the old GnR is that unified band sound. As inexact as all the "protools" criticism is, I do agree that he uses too many different sounds and effects.

that outro on "prostitute" is LUSH. one of the best moments on the album, one of the moments where he really gets maximalism right.

also there's a bit of this going on in the beat:

and some madonna "oh father"

At first I thought it was pretty meh and ridiculous (the way he sings the first lines of street of dreams keeps making me laugh as it reminds me of the comparison with the puppet rock opera in "forgetting sarash marshall"). I didn't hear any good songs/hooks. But after a few listens, I've got to admit I really like it and I've already listened to the whole album many times (a thing I have never been able to do with the "Use your illusions"). Funny how the songs open up after a while.

i was saddened by a vinyl copy of this record the other day. stumbling across it, i felt that i should look away in order to spare the moment some vague yet bruising humiliation. it seemed so bereft, like what if you saw and old friend from way back panhandling in a pool of his or her own special warm urine? would you say something, do something, or would you just AVOID AVOID AVOID!!! (?)

i mean, i knew it was out because i wasted all that time trying to get free dr pepper, but it still kinda took me by surprise is all

Given the interest in the Christian Bale rant, I was going to link to an Axl rant on Youtube... but there are dozens of them!

weird factoid about all those vinyl copies of the album that Best Buy stocked: Chinese Democracy was actually the 3rd highest selling vinyl album of 2008 (behind In Rainbows and a reissue of Abbey Road). only took 13 thousand copies to get there, but still.

actually, that makes me feel better about the chinese democracy album i saw, like it's not really homeless or anything, it's just doing its thing, and it's totally not my thing, but we can still be people with each other. if we want to

Christgau:

Guns N' Roses
"Chinese Democracy"
(Geffen)

Hopeless eccentric spends most of his adult life and a large chunk of his ill-gotten fortune trying to make the perfect album. Succeeds, kind of, on his own totally irrelevant terms. Nobody cares. Since he's no longer capable of leading young white males astray, this effort isn't just pleasurable artistically. It's touching on a human level. Noble, even. I didn't think he had it in him.

Grade: B PLUS

Heard a rumour its gonna be released this year!

lol g1

Somebody should start a Chinese Democracy II thread.

This album is truly great. Scraped is pretty weak though; basically should have just been an instrumental on a Buckethead solo album.

I still can't believe this happened.

yeah, it's like I remember 5 years of buildup but barely remember an album

china could actually have democracy by the time this thing... oh wait.

Duke Nukem Forever got cancelled.

remember when people cared about this?

Already £5 in Fopp!

tbh the most worthwhile aspect of this whole debacle was the Dr. Pepper thing. Anyone know how many Chinese Democracy Peppers were actually consumed?

Because unlike Guns n Roses, the superiority of Dr. Pepper never expires!

Remember the time.

duke nukem forever is back on, axl just cancelled a tour via twitter.

i still haven't heard a note of this album.

will still rep for 'better'

has aged poorly

it's only two years old!

A good record. And respect to Axl, btw, for not falling prey to "loudness war" bullshit - whether you like the music or not, the mastering on the thing is terrific.

it's only two 10+ years old!

let's be honest here

lol true but I was presuming you meant it sounded good 2 years ago

best buy still desperately trying to move vinyl copies of this

haha I've seen em there lying unsold

xxp - At the time, I gave it a fair chance. The parts of the album that endure for me are Axl's weirdo genre collisions - which is to say that I like the album best when it sounds nothing like Gn'R, but most of the rock and metal elements just ring hollow imo. I agree that "Better" is the standalone classic.

best buy still desperately trying to move vinyl copies of this

― ('_') (omar little), Wednesday, August 18, 2010 2:07 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there must be acres of landfill populated entirely with vinyl copies of this godforsaken thing

I'm glad this album exists, but couldn't really imagine ever listening to it again.

but most of the rock and metal elements just ring hollow

I don't know, some of the 'Axl being over the top Axl' bits work, but I generally agree that the less it sounds like GNR the better the results.