does Tim Sweeney represent know-nothings who piss all over disco tradition or a refreshingly new take on old records?

Oh and I love Harvey. But his mixes are both old stuff and fun.

i doubt it's fair to call tim sweeney a "disco revivalist". and dudes like JBO or ashley beedle have been mashing up techno + house + disco + leftfield tracks for a while now.

i also don't think it's fair to compare "beats in space" to a joey negro comp. those joey negro comps are more like soul jazz comps, they are targeted at a certain sound and era. don't these beardy dudes mix in a lot of other random stuff?

who are these super-hard-core disco revivalists we don't know about who only spin disco tracks? are we talking about people like danny krivit? but isn't comparing sweeney + krivit sort of like comparing legowelt + cerrone?

what are "willfully ignorant" connections that sweeney makes? are they more willfully ignorant than like what the idjut boys do??

that was a joke!

Notes: "real disco for real people. compiled by Joey Negro"

the one time i saw sweeny he only plaid techno :(

definitely. one thing i can't stand about ilx is that the original poster (question-asker) gets to set the direction of discourse, we're discussing whether he is "real" rather than what he is actually doing, which is far more interesting.

other threads that burn me up
de facto The Office thread: Why is there a US-version of "The Office"?
young people thread: Young People... awful?
and any artworld thread that presents an implied conclusion in its title

oh look, i ran a search on "sucks" and found some inept Sweeney bashing: Beats In Space host totally sucks at interviews, right?

I genuinely think Sweeney is a good dj too, and he makes interesting connections between records as well, but they're ones that you almost have to be relatively (or wilfully) ignorant in order to make.

examples? something to do with the naivety of youth?

i also don't think it's fair to compare "beats in space" to a joey negro comp.

vahid otm. not fair to a put a slavishly curated cd up against a 2 hour radio show.. which is done weekly.

Sometimes it does bug me a bit the Sweeney imitators (no more than Optimo imitators), because it's a hard style to do and so many DJs, particularly younger ones seem to think playing their non dance collection and a few italo records is actually interesting or makes them part of this fantastically interesting eclectic DJ thing. And it doesn't...it's a rare type of DJ that can do it.

also most of the older stuff he plays seems like dance music canon anyway - look at that mix on the DFA site from a few months back, among the more recent stuff it has moodymann, 'disco circus', some old x-press 2 track from when they were actually good, paperclip people etc. so you could say that there's an element of curating the classics there, but he just doesn't seem overly interested in sticking to one genre like a joey negro type.

he has posted on ILM once before, maybe he'll come and illuminate us!

weirdly when he played down here recently he did a much more straight-up "teach the indie kids to dance" set! it was still good but he didn't play much I hadn't heard before. (except for that deep house rework of wolfmother, hahaha.)

Whereas this thread is about different forms of revivalism: if current DJs are going to play old disco/house, should they attempt to demonstrate a deep, subtle and near-comprehensive appreciation of disco-as-a-genre, or draw connections between disco and other non-disco stuff in a more eclectic, populist mix'n'match manner?

But these two things aren't mutually opposed, as beardo disco proves: the whole angle of beardo disco is that it's mix'n'match eclecticism by and for people who already have a deep, subtle and near-comprehensive appreciation of disco-as-a-genre, and want to do/hear something different.

I agree with Vahid in that to my knowledge there has never really been a a significant tradition of DJs only playing a very refined notion of old disco (apart from, say, specifically commissioned comps and mixes highlighting a particular sound or sub-genre). If anything that sort of purism is more associated with contemporary productions - so yeah you do get very pure DJ mixes of later (i.e. post-house) productions which reflect a certain notion of disco.

To my ears if there has been a shift it's more of a specific sonic one, away from a diachronic positioning of disco as the end point of a soul-funk-disco line of development, and towards a more synchronic setting of disco amidst sympathetic non-disco sounds (esp. various forms of disco-rock). The main difference between Sweeney and Idjut Boys - to use Vahid's example - is not that the Idjut Boys are less eclectic (they're not) but that the Saturday Night Live mixes (for example) are so much warmer and dustier and black-sounding than Sweeney's (this doesn't make them better or worse, just different). You could imagine a lot of those tracks being remixed (or rather just edited) by Moodymann, say.

Whereas - duh - Sweeney's picks often sound like something the DFA would remix.

Ha ha maybe people would be less offended by the thread title if Jordan had used The Rapture's mix-cd as his example of know-nothings pissing all over the disco tradition.

damn rock dudes who don't own enough dance records to construct "consistent" sets that make sense. i'll take them over the diplo/girl talk wannabes though

What I was referring to, and it's interesting that nobody else seems to have ever experienced this scene, was the kind of clubs I used to go to on weeknights in London around 95-96 or so. In particular, Paul 'Trouble' Anderson on wednesdays used to play a mix of rare disco and (at the time) current garage records that were very faithful to the disco sound. There were a shitload of clubs that were on this sort of vibe, although to be fair none of the DJs would be that famous. To be precise, the sound that was popular was one that could almost be called funk or rare groove, but the lines are so blurry once you get to around 1976 that it seems a bit pointless to make the distinction.

The most well-known djs who ever played sets like this at the time were probably MAW - Kenny Dope's 'Favourite Grooves' cd (which I love) is emblematic to me of the style - very overtly soulful and as Tim puts it 'dusty and black-sounding'.

When I say 'wilfully ignorant' I mean as in old school disco heads would never put those tunes together. I think it's very interesting to look at the differences in approach between something like the 'Kings of Techno' mix or a Dan Selzer mix (or even 'Mixed up in the Hague') and what you hear in a Tim Sweeney set. (and I like all of these approaches but they're DIFFERENT and isn't it interesting to discuss the differences?)

If there's anything refreshing about Tim in particularly is that with his age and where he's coming from, at least in person, he's never come off as any kind of dance music history authority or anything, just somebody soaking it all in, new and old. He knows what he's playing, but I think like me, he just doesn't come out of any tightly defined tradition.

Personally, I think Tim, and myself, come from that more interesting tradition where you draw on a variety of sounds and influences and play whatever feels right. You may lean towards this genre or that, but you're not a purist and not easy to put into a corner because of the eclectism. And as discussed above...if you can make that eclectism work (even if you hate that word like stirmonster!) that's a good thing.

on a tangent...the eclectism thing is REALLY hard and frustating. For the one person who follows what you're doing and is happy that you're moving around genres in a seamless way, you get 10 who are just like "can you play more hip-hop?" "can you play more 80s?" It's also really hard to sort of establish any kind of identity or brand because if you're unknown you just confuse people who come back to your party expecting more of the same. That's why a lot of the eclectic DJs sort of work from an initial genre/brand/aesthetic even if their sets are more diverse. You can think of Rub-n-Tug as a "disco" party or Optimo as a "post-punk" dance party or whatever, but all these guys really stretch out and play whatever suits them.

that's when i reach for my revolver. or just stare blankly pretending i can't hear them farting in my face.

sometimes, though, i appease people, play "Smoke and Fuck All Day" no matter what they asked me to play, then get back to whatever i was playing before.

the It's also really hard to sort of establish any kind of identity or brand is something i can particularly relate to, but the upside of that is that i think i get a richer personal experience as i get to play in incredibly diverse types of clubs.

For future dates check out www.doctorbobjones.com

Thank you

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This is my 39th year of playing quality uplifting black soulful grooves across the globe. I still get the same buzz playing today as what I did back in 1967. So enjoy what you read and hear and please feel free to express your thoughts - I promise to keep in touch and be very soulful.

Latest Bob Jones info...
14/12/2006

Hello Everybody.

Well, what can you say about a man who's given his all to the music we call "soul"?2007 is the year Dr Bob Jones clocks up 40 years on the DJing circuit, a career longer then most of us have been alive. Throughout his career Bob has been spinning the highest quality black music, featuring soul, dance and jazz.

hilarity

note the colourful plumage on this rare bird

couldn't decide which Sweeney thread to bump...

http://acuterecords.com/blog/imgs/dazzletim.gif

he was great in portland a couple weeks ago

He's playing my office party next month! Hope he didn't see this thread...

Tim Sweeney djing in Toronto Friday July 18th @ Wrongbar ... we silkscreened a glow in the dark astro-nerd poster for this one

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v298/151/53/712011223/n712011223_1499293_1286.jpg

here is my current problem with mr. sweeney, the continuation of the disco revival, and perhaps clubbing in general. it comes down to six words:

Thirty-Something Yuppie Shitbags Not Dancing.

he did a set at a place near the montgomery BART the other night and not only was it pretty much the same set he's been doing for the past two years, but nobody was dancing! i'm glad i convinced the bouncer to let me in to check it out before leaving to get drunk at 50s soul night.

xlnt tshirt logo, this thread title

ha. table, apparently we go to all of the same events. i walked in around 12:30, he played Eberhard Shoener's "Why Won't You Answer" which i was really stoked on and then he started playing harder/techier stuff and we walked out. my buddy ryan was DJing but i'm not sure if it was before or after, but i missed it.

great poster btw. i'd love to see it glowing in the dark

Thirty-Something Yuppie Shitbags Not Dancing.

Can I point out that this needs a law against it soon, I'm sick of guys just STANDING there. ON THE DANCEFLOOR.

And yeah, great poster!

that poster is nice.

i left there around midnight, jaxon. all i know is that right when i was leaving i heard Black Devil and was kinda like, "whuh?"

weird, i saw tim at rickshaw stop 4 years ago and it was 100% dancing.

I.WAS.THERE.

Actually there's a thread on Noize about that show and hstencil was being douchey about it.

haha:

Ask Miss Lauren P Questions...

RIP

you thirty something yuppie shitbag

I was on Beats in Space twice. You want thirty something yuppie shitbag dancing? I've got it for you. In london on the 26th. I won't be so rude as to post the flyer here, but you can read about it on my blog.

Anyway, the fault can't always be with the DJ, what's the guy gonna do, play Sexyback to get the party pumping? You know I'm quick to go for the easy floor fillers but at some point you gotta play what you want to play and figure if people don't want to dance to what you've got, that's there loss.

http://www.amazon.com/Sweeneys-Guide-Successfully-Playing-Live/dp/0965131610/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216090638&sr=1-2

wow. joel on that thread. always such a cry baby

Does Dan know that Tim Sweeney is also playing London that night?

I'm going to go see Dan tho'.

"Thirty something yuppies not dancing" seems to be more of an American/Canadian complaint than a European one. I was at a shambolically arranged Chicago house/disco night in a 2/3rds empty bar off Kingsland Rd on Saturday night and everyone that was there was up for dancing nonetheless. Possibly because the bar was formerly a pub owned by the 13NP and no one in their right mind would have gone there just to look cool.

But yeah, I can't recall the last time I went anywhere and people were just standing in the middle of the dancefloor. It just doesn't seem to happen here, unless someone does an idiotic thing like booking Booka Shade for 9pm in a students union.

I'm hoping to be there on the 26th as well.

ha, I had no idea Tim's djing that night!

Arse. I would have totally gone to see DJ Dan but it's my friend's birthday that day. She'll be 31 so I guess we could add to your thirty something yuppies dancing/not dancing quota, but it's probably not likely I'd be able to persuade them to go there.

last time tim played glasgow there were 1200+ teen something, twenty something, thirty something, forty something etc. people dancing. there were a couple of people standing around but i think they were the security.

maybe a little foot-tapping from them

last time tim and stirmonster played SF (3 years ago?), most everybody was dancing (except for jaxon)... or waiting in line for the bathroom, ack.

Tim Sweeney/Beats in Space really deserve a thread without a snarky title. The other one is even worse.
Beats In Space host totally sucks at interviews, right?

Aren't "thirty-something" and "yuppie" contradictory? Or do I still count as young, if not upwardly mobile?

Anyway, going to go to Dan's thing at Say Yes, and dance. Nadia Ksabian and Rory Phillips are great as well.

Ksabia - not Ksabian (agh!)

last time tim and stirmonster played SF (3 years ago?), most everybody was dancing (except for jaxon)... or waiting in line for the bathroom, ack.
-- Steve Shasta, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 15:12 (29 minutes ago) Link

liar, liar, pants on fire

lying about me not dancing that is. was a fun night.

i wasn't yet thirty then, though

I've never thought of the older generations of DJs ( Levan, Marcuso, Siano) as having a northern soul/crate digging approach to DJing

i went to nicky siano at santa's a few weeks ago, oh on gay pride day actually (i think he plays every sunday). got there late and he was djing from his macbook. but not like serrato, i think just on itunes or something. was very confused. but maybe it was the end of the nite and he was bored because he was just playing slow jams. was fun though.

anyways... tim sweeney, good guy, fun DJ, pretty hair. i don't see him that much anymore. i guess always booked out of town.

speaking of beardy disco revivalists or whatever, tomorrow (weds) at santas, is pat mah0ney's (from LCD) birthday party with james m and him djing. should be fun. they got a big neon "specialdisco" sign for the party.

oh wait, i guess its today (weds). i lose track of days sometimes

okay, hyperbole hyperbole, sorry. but seriously, y'all older people need to dance if you come out to a dance club. yknow?

only if you guys stop talking funny

I've paid my cash to get in, I'll do what I want, thanks anyway.

I only interrupt my dancing to punch young folks with cameraphones.

i went to that same show table, i'm 30something and i danced, you couldn't have missed me. i thought the music was great, esp. Omar or Ryan playing Escort's "Love in Indigo" and Tim playing Fad Gadget. I also *shockhorror* socialized with folks and had a chat but i spent a good bit of time on the dancefloor, with the other people who were also dancing. It's not like everyone was standing around. were you looking in the other, more boring room?

*shrug* I had fun!

i think some of it was the timing of when we got there-- a friend who arrived a half hour later said that it was great. meh-- Sweeney is still a bit of a naff DJ, imho.

seen him three times and had fun every time .... once opening for Optimo, once with Lindstrom, and once at Nublu (lol) where he played a buncha Zapp and Funkadelic

geeez, no idea what you all are talking about with the "people standing in the middle of the dance floor" thing. i like to dance, full dancefloor, empty dancefloor, 30 yr olds, 50 yr olds, 19 yr olds, hippies, yuppies ... whatever ...

anyway, thanks for the compliments on the poster, unfortunately we've had to postpone the tim party to sept 5th (still @ wrongbar) but nav and i are still djing tonite with some friends ...

i went to nicky siano at santa's a few weeks ago, oh on gay pride day actually (i think he plays every sunday). got there late and he was djing from his macbook. but not like serrato, i think just on itunes or something. was very confused. but maybe it was the end of the nite and he was bored because he was just playing slow jams. was fun though.

nicky siano uses abelton w/ some crazy 8 channel USB mixer and he's a master at it

Siano's visit to BeatsinSpace a few weeks back was a joy to listen to. Enthousiasm (far more talking then on any other BiS show I've heard), great records, time flying

I've only seen him DJ once at a show in Brooklyn (Black Dice and the Juan Maclean) in summer 2004. hstence hosted me, lauren came along, and we went. I had just flown in from Iceland. It felt like 4am to me, thanks to physics. No one was dancing, and I think this was one of Tim's first sets. When Black Dice went on, I smiled and pretended they were Bugskull instead. Some kids threw beer around. h and l had enough and we all bolted. I was tired. it was cool. Sorry, no profound pontificating.

I would see Selzer DJ the next day in w. wmsbrg and that was a lot of fun! for point of comparison. Or was that before? I forget now.

I think this was one of Tim's first sets.

http://www.beatsinspace.net/pics/prophecy.jpg

i always confuse tim's dj sets with his audio journeys.

I only interrupt my dancing to punch young folks with cameraphones.

-- J@cob, Thursday, 17 July 2008 08:25 (Yesterday) Link

You have the moral impulses of my grandpa. "The younguns take them damn pichures on their damn pichure phones and it pisses me off!"

http://twitter.com/#!/BISradio/status/28054208050

http://www.thedailyswarm.com/headlines/stay-out-washington-heights-tim-sweeney-longtime-listener-first-time-raving-temper-tantrum/

^ kinda hilarious

cliffs?