Marvel's Civil War

TEHRE R UTHER MUTNATS B-SIDES WOLFERINE

The photo + the title have me ph34ring some Infinite Crisis sadface.

I was under the impression Bendis's Illuminati led up to Civil War, too, but I'm not sure.

Before this thread is subsumed in IC-esque vitriol & pith, let us remember the original Civil War thread, started by the late, great Tom. Here is a link. In case you're joining us late, Tom was chosen as the newest herald of Galactus. He is now ... THE CONCATENATOR. Godspeed, Tom, and, please, when the G gets the munchies, make sure those meeping Martian bastards get it first.

Spidey/Human Torch was very good, though.

The tone here is definitely po of face, O NOES blood on the shield! And "A Marvel Comics Event in 7 Parts" has an ELP triple-album vibe to it too, whatever happened to "#1 in a 7 issue miniseries" in that nice font across the top?

That said the way it's been talked up makes it seem like it's going to be metaphorisin' a real world situation (civil liberties/Patriot Act/etc.) in the Mighty Marvel Manner. As opposed to DC, where the divisive situation is completely arbitrary and the real driving conflict is "DO WE RETCON CRISIS?". You would think that the real-world dilemma would make for better stories, but on the other hand clearly it's going to motivate fans less.

(Also I get the definite feeling that Joe Q has cried wolf a few times too often about the Huge Importance of these various events.)

I mean, Spidey & Wolvie on the same team, c'mon, they're not gonna have them be in the wrong.

Anyway, yeah, the initial thing that turned me off of all this junk even as disposable ha-ha crap was finding out Bendis was putting his Illuminati gag -- which I'd been reading as a gag, anyway, you know, "oh yeah, of course a few of the more influential Marvelites get together for tea and arguing once in a while, it's the 21st century take on the Thing's old poker game with Dr Strange" -- to work as a serious comic with Ooh! New! Revealed! Secret! History! (more than a one-shot, I thought? a series or handful of one-shots? Maybe that was folded into Civil War, in actuality or in my head). It would be dumb enough even without recycling the Illuminati name -- is there anyone in the world with matching shoes who isn't sick of the factory-issued set of conspiracy theories by the end of their freshman year, if not the conspiracy theory genre in toto?

And on Marvel Civil War.

Dan, go read my X-Factor joke.

SCIENCE VERSUS VIGILANTES, WITH AMERICA IN THE MIDDLE

Dom Mariani has a band called The Majestic Kelp, if that helps?

According to the report, Civil War will also serve as the launchpoint for Civil War: Front Line, a ten-part bi-weekly miniseries to be published in conjunction with the main miniseries. Paul Jenkins will write Front Line, which will launch in June.

Jenkins told the Times that Front Line will explore the world around Civil War, telling many stories, but mainly working through the point of view of two embedded reporters, Sally Floyd (from Generation M) at the left-leaning The Alternative and Ben Urich at the more right-leaning Daily Bugle, whose publisher, J. Jonah Jameson, Jenkins compared to Rupert Murdoch.

From the Times: Mr. Jenkins will be doing some embedding of his own, using, in part, actual war letters and diaries, including "The Diary of Anne Frank" to tell the parallel story of a frightened young mutant girl in Manhattan, and the World War I poem, "Futility," by Wilfred Owen, to chronicle the last moments of a hero's life.

Committee-written year-long weekly series focusing on B-list characters: THUMBS UP

Ten-part ancillary series drawing belabored real-world parallels and quoting poems / Anne Frank: DIRTY SANCHEZ

(from my end, not his, BTW)

Jenkins is the Void, so somewhere out there is The Perfect Comics Writer, the one who can get Frank Miller to see reason, restore John Byrne to his FF self with a mock punch to the shoulder and a hearty "you ol' sonuvagun," pitch Hawkman in six words or less, write a Black Bolt solo series without narration or sidekicks, make Marvel Zombies give a shit about the Fourth World, and write a Wonder Man story that'll knock your socks off.

We may have to give him up to get rid of PJ, but he owes us some comics first.

I've tried to go BLAAAAAARGH a few times so far, but I'm just gonna repeat what folks have already said (using more words), so suffice it to say: BLAAAAAARGH.

Poor Ben Urich.

This is the kind of thing that makes people think mainstream superhero comics suck, because it makes it easy to forget that Runaways, She-Hulk, Alias, etc., never would have been put out by the Marvel of ten years ago.

... and has someone other than Jenkins recently decided that the Bugle is a right-leaning paper? Because that sort of -- if not explicitly -- runs counter to the way it's usually been portrayed, depending on how leaning we're talking about. It's hardly the Fox News of Marvel New York.

And the Bugle, for that matter, doesn't suffer nearly as much from that blindspot as Jameson does. He's no Rupert Murdoch -- Murdoch isn't on TV making O'Reilly-like editorial statements that the network carefully notes are the opinions of an individual and to be taken as such etc.

Sigh.

I'm going to write a literary masterpiece that's 22 splash pages of guys pounding each other, and just put a footnote at the end that says SUPERMAN RED=BUSH, SUPERMAN BLUE=JUSTICE.

Also, the bottom margin of every page will be T.S. Eliot quotes from the back of my high school yearbook, and the upper corner will be a flipbook of the "Nothing Compares 2 U" video as done by Moondragon. I'll call it CIVIL WAR: MAHNA-MAHNA and Wizard will do a two-page spread (with "T.S. Eliot: Spandex poet?" sidebar) and Marvel will give me the Defenders to remake.

OMG Southpaw, NO!

-- David R. (quoteidio...), February 20th, 2006.

Dude, you've covered most of my feelings in this thread, so thanks for saving me the effort.

But you know, Marvel is still better than DC in that this won't really interrupt the storylines of the majority of the titles, and it's very easily ignored. It's not crossing over into Astonishing X-Men, X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, Daredevil, Runaways, or the Ultimate titles, so what do I care?

Could be, but (at least from what I've seen in future solicits) it's not affecting the title's goings-on. It might @ a later date, though. Given the way that EB handled the WTF? House of M-over in Captain America, I have hopes he'll be able to juggle any x-over bodkins w/ skill & elan.

You know, as totally dumb and ham-fisted as this Civil War thing seems, at least it seems like they are trying to tell a story that has coherant ideas and themes that aren't mainly based in a postmodern Silver Age Vs. Now fanboy wank schism.

I've never thought he was at all Murdoch-like. I can't imagine him wanting to "expand the empire"--he just wants to run a paper.

The best JJJ recently has been Bendis', and he seemed to take pains to have literally his first sentence (in Alias) be about him firing some columnist because he doesn't want this neocon trash in his paper.

And even more boring...

To be fair to PJ, his Newsramada interview following the one-sheet about NYT's take on affairs paints the Anne Frank / war poem stuff in a less slappable light. To be fair to the forces of good, PJ's been seemingly riding on fumes ever since Wolverine: The End.

Frank Cho and Marvel Comics have confirmed for THE PULSE that Cho's co-writing an upcoming Marvel Comic with scribe Brian Michael Bendis. Cho was tightlipped about the work and would only reveal that it takes place in a "post Marvel Civil War universe."

Cue the one-liners.

JQ: Splat.

OH SNAP

only read amazing spiderman, but thats all there been released in the uk so far me thinks

Thus this kind of crossover becomes the blown up paradigm of any team-up comic: They meet, they fight and then team-up to fight the common enemy (boring philosophical questionsa botu vigilantism).

Civil War seems even more tedious than most because in the real world, the question being debated has already been answered. On the whole vigilantes are seen as BAD THINGS. This will undermine the Marvel arg because on the whole in the Marvel Universe vigilantes are seen (at least by the readers) as not just a GOOD THING but also a storytelling conceit that also makes them AN INTERESTING THING. There is a reason why there aren't many cop comics.

*See also "What is it to be a human" in Secret Wars II.

Dialectics in action!

There's a four-issue Runaways mini, a four-issue X-Men mini, and two issues of X-Factor (if you've picked that up since).

ihttp://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/July06/BLAP018wrapCOV_col.jpg

Why is Bishop the only person crying? Is he thinking "that's the only major black woman in the Marvel Universe, and I missed my chance - I'M NEVER GOING TO GET MARRIED!" Falcon seems similarly grim about this, but the other black guy in the blue costume seems pretty happy. In fact, it looks like he's the only happy person there.

Frank Cho is a good artist, but this is a terrible drawing!

Reed Richards must be a fucker to sit behind in cinemas.

http://medialit.med.sc.edu/25grea15.jpg

Between Irong Mang and the Cap.

Red bandana person is Feng Shui, Master of Shaq Fu.

xpost

(FYI, I always like the title of our other CW thread: Whats So Civil About War Anyway?.)

It's rub.

COUGH

The whole things seems to be shaping up a lot like the current Ultimates story though, I don't if that's good or bad.

But the scene with Cap is great and I'm really happy to see him as the head of the resistance. It has always struck me that Cap is the ultimate idealist instead of the force of conservatism and this is his rightful place.

I haven't read the ASM build-up so that might flesh it out a bit.

Incidentally if Millar does do this then I take back everything, especially if there is a proper unmasking scene!

If there are bee-infested nazis in future issues, though, I will return.

ihttp://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/May06/main/MK_SENSATSPMAN_026_COV.jpg

Someone should add that to the Chuck Norris list.

first invented by jack kirby as a 2nd WW rootin tootin Sgt (w/ his howlin' commandos) and all-round kirby surrogate-idealised other (kirby had a fondness for the character that far exceeded Fury's actual popularity/commercial potential) - parallel to the Sgt Fury war comic bk Kirby and Lee also started up a Marvel Universe Nick Fury series with old-eyepatch now leading an U.N.C.L.E.esque intelligence outfit called S.H.I.E.L.D. - lots of 60s Bond-spy knock-off plots-imagery, esp. the popart-psych issues written and drawn by Steranko

since then Fury has had various narrative/continuity functions - mostly, i think, as a kind of tough cop-love buddy to the marvel superheroes, a sympathiser who will keep the govt off eg the avengers backs - he seems to have become a more ambiguous figure in recent years, more like he's pursuing his own agenda (esp. against mutants, who he has had big beefs w/) - and I'm guessing (I haven't read it) that Civil War continues this 'arc' or whatev

sometimes i get ultimates continuity confused w/ marvel universe continuity, oh my - in the ultimates fury looks like samuel l jackson

http://www.twomorrows.com/kirby/media/24furyjack.gif

Okay, I kinda knew a bit of that from the early issues of (current) Captain America. But he's, like, on the outs right now?

i'm sure fury won't be brown bread for long if at all - not when there's the chance of another david hasselhof tv movie

http://digilander.libero.it/davidhasselhoff/foto/nickfury/fury1.jpg

STEVE ENGELS-HEART MORE LIKE.

Frankly after the page where Mrs Shield is all "here is our arrest-your-mates policy Cap" and Cap is all like "Wait, hang on" and Mrs Shield is all "You heard me" I was expecting Cap to be all "Yes I did hear you. AND IT IS NOW WAR. TIME FOR SOME LIBERALISM YOU FAR-RIGHT FILTH, IT IS SHIELD VERSUS MY ACTUAL SHIELD!!! I DESPISE AMERICA!!! THE FLAG IS A NOTHING!!! Has the President turned into a snake yet IF SO I'M THERE IN HIS FACE!!!"

But instead he just chatted away for ages and then accused someone of having a potty mouth WHEN HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ACCUSING HIM OF HAVING RIGHT-WING VIEWS.

...but then Captain America beat the crap out of a load of SHIELD agents and jumped out of the helicarrier and I was just giggling like a child. Damn it, Millar writes that kind of pulp action crap as well as anyone.

Yeah, I know. What I mean is, I find it surprising that no one has ever tried to make a really awesome Nick Fury series. It seems like a character that would have been an interesting draw for top-drawer creators, but it never really happened. Until now, I guess - Millar has done amazing things with the character in the Ultimate books, and Damon Lindelof did a good job of him too. Bendis seems to have fun with SHIELD in general.

Well, of course! I kinda meant since the 80s or so.

Why do superheroes need to wear masks? You know who else wears masks? Hockey goalies...I don't care what anybody else says, Captain America is the best looking WWII veteran this side of Glen Miller...Jessica Jones is getting married. Luke Cage is a lucky man.

How does Iron Man keep his armor from rusting?...I don't know about you, but I think pancakes are best served with syrup...Has anyone seen the Hulk lately? Say what you about purple pants, the man knew how to make an entrance.

Sort of reminds me of the V for Vendetta movie: it's "political" -- not in a sense that it actually reflects anything going on in the world right now, but because it's vaguely "about politics."

Either way, it's just dull anyway.

I don't know if it's true.

I'll just stop posting now.

-- Matthew C Perpetua (perpetu...), Today 5:21 PM. (inca) (later)

hahahahaha!

BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Pretty art can't even begin to disguise rote & oh-so-convenient plot-based machinations that A) have VERY LITTLE to do w/ what's preceded in various pre-CW crossover shits (tho I might need to reread them to make sure) (not that I want to) and B) are barely explicated in the damn book aside from some "DAMN YOU NEWARRIORS" fistshaking. Fun fact: that was supposed to be She-Hulk (in Jen Walters mode) schmoozing w/ Larry.

NO, SERIOUSLY

So. Something about this feels really inevitable. The whole concept of secret identities is and always has been kind of ridiculous. Like, no one who knows you and isn't retarded is going to be stumped by a mask or glasses or whateverth'fuck if you're always splitting when there's crazy action afoot, amirite?

Have any of the Marvel identity reveals from the past several years been repealed? Because I know Peter Parker has been revealed as Spider-Man probably two dozen times thus far and I'm hoping it's not going to be a "OMG I can't believe you guys fell for that you're so STUPID ROTFLMAO" sitch. Which, given the context of the revelation would be next to impossible to pull off logically...which is exactly why I wouldn't put it past Marvel.

Anyway. I approve. And I'm gonna come straight out and say "EFF ALL SECRET IDENTITIES". It's kind of an outdated trope at this point. Except in ASS. Morrison & Quitely know how to make it work. Everyone else is a little too incompetent to think past the logical inconsistencies.

i lolled at jonah fainting though

* Yeah I know those get attacked tons anyway, but whatevah.

The funniest acknowledgement of this particular quarry that I've ever seen was one of the first episodes of "Buffy", where they had just fought a horde of vampires at the Bronze, and the next day everybody's walking around happily like nothing had happened. So Buffy is all like "wtf", and Giles goes "people become very adept at blocking out what they don't want to know". Utterly unconvincing, of course, but I liked it as Whedon's way of saying "yeah, there's some flaws here, but if we took care of them everything would just become duller, let's just move ahead".

(of course, later seasons of "Buffy" sort of implied that the ppl in Sunnydale *did* basically know what she was up to, they just didn't make it official because that would mess with their heads too much - but when the vamps showed up they would know which door to knock on. Which I suppose is another fun way to bypass this whole deal.)

So this whole massive crossover is basically an excuse to get rid of her. Maybe not right now, but eventually, probably pretty soon, they get rid of her.

And then Spidey is all single and has girl-angst again, just like he does in Ultimate Spidey.

Yay for Marvel.

The main thing that's struck me as I read through this Civil War stuff is that Marvel has strayed super, super far from where they started. Into "adult" world. And as long as Marvel is currently providing multiple outlets for Spidey stories, titles that don't share any continuity (Marvel Age for the kiddies, Ultimate for the newbie tweens, etc.), I don't really have a problem with it. I like that traditional Spider-Man stuff is still being made for those people who want him to maintain some semblance of the status quo as given to him by Lee & Ditko and that, simultaneously in other titles, creators are pushing the character out of the cushy box he's been in for forty years. Whether or not it's being done well or will be done well is a whole different issue, but I like the fact that it's being done nonetheless.

Haven't they been ruining the franchise for ages now, though? Seriously: this is the only change in Spidey's status quo in years that's interested me in the slightest. Clones and power animals and Gwen Stacy's children and rebirth and all that shit is completely straying from anything relating to the core of Spider-Man. Revealing his identity sets up so many interesting story possibilities. And besides: has anything interesting been done with the concept of secret identities within the proper Spider-Man titles anytime recently? If they aren't going to do anything interesting with it, why not try something new? Like I said, there's always the other outside-of-continuity titles to explore secret identities.

This Spidey unmasking just makes no sense. Rather than do something realistic and have MJ & Peter grow apart, decide to take different career paths, realize her vulnerability and split, or *whatever*, the unmasking is so unlike everything the character's spent decades espousing, it's like JMS's Gwen's kids retconning. It's Arc-Limited Continuity. If Peter hadn't married MJ, it'd have turned into Charlie Brown kicking the football. After the fifteenth failure, time to turn on Charlie, instead of Lucy. He's got to grow. He's got to move on. Something good had to happen, for the bad to mean anything. It may have been shoehorned in to match the newspaper strip, but it's shown some character development.

And post-revelation, what story possibilities? A normal job would be impossible, as he'd endanger any common workplace. A tech job with Stark places his family & friends at risk. Anyone he loves is now a target, if the writers are going to allow credibility to Spidey's lethal enemies. Gwen died in the USM series, because Venom knew where Parker lived. Are they sizing a fridge for MJ?

I liked this idea better in Powers. Here it's just blah. Wake me after the reversal.

It's all a moot point anyway, really. I can't think of anything they could do to the character that would get me reading it on a regular basis again. And I don't know that I'd bother arguing too strongly in favor of Friendly Neighborhood.... Editorial is pulling the same kind of shit they were during the latter part of David's Hulk run (read: endless crossovers and status quo shake-ups), so I'd be surprised if he stuck around for that much longer. But if he does, I don't see why he couldn't figure out a way to make this shit work.

Maybe they just need to kill him off, at this point. That might not be a bad idea for most of the Marvel Universe proper, to be honest. Or do really radical shit to them like shooting all of them into space. Give all the big shots their own planets. Turn Captain America into Galactus' newest herald. Marvel U needs to get crazy again.

This thread is making me realize just how little of a fuck I currently give about most of the Marvel Universe as it currently stands. If I want to see lots of grimacing at night, I'll read Frank Miller, thanks.

Marvel Age Spider-Man, Ultimate Spider-Man, Grimacing At Night Spider-Man: which one do you care the least about?

Mary Jane is not a mistake, she's a balancing factor and the Peter/MJ dialogues were always a big part of my enjoyment of the series...seriosuly, most likeable couple in superhero comics. But maybe I'm biased, when I got into Spider-Man he was already married.

Besides, if they kill her off, she'll just come back as a clone or whatever, do we really want that?

Haha, I remember when they killed off Aunt May and then after a few months "Wizard" was like "our bad, we printed once that that would be a good idea, but actually no, they should kill off Mary Jane instead!"

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CivilWar/CW05cvr.htm

1) JJJ hasn't fainted. He's had a massive, fatal coronary. Robbie blames Pete and becomes NU JJJ!!!??!!?!?!!!

2) THE 'REAL' SPIDER-MAN turns up and beats the shit out of Peter for being Iron Man's stooge. "You can take those secret devices off now PARKER! Because the REAL SPIDEY would NEVER bend over for teh MAN!!" (Actually it's --- HAWKEYE!!!?!?!?!?? in a spidey suit. On the orders of Cap trying to rescue Spidey from himself!)

3) Aunt May is shot by one of Spidey's enemies as revenge BUT THE ENEMY IS THE BURGLAR WHO KILLED UNCLE BEN!!!!???!!!!

http://www.metro.co.uk/fame/article.html?in_article_id=15445&in_page_id=7

And lo, Internet comic weirdos invade the forums of London's terminally dull free paper.

I think I've read a few storylines very similar to this - but they tend to star Batman.

OH GOD YES

Anyway, when I asked the question, everyone pointed at me and said that it was originally my idea.

BLACK, GAY and SINGLE

http://gratefuldread.net/archives/hj-kick.jpg

And shldn't Queseda (who always sounds like a dick whenever I read his interviews) be applauded for taking creative risks/fucking w/ the formula blahblah, rather than 'responsibly' middle-managing this 'property' by giving readers more of the sameold sameold ye old "illusion of change rather than change itself" - besides, alongside Spiderman's perpetual EMOness (which is, if anything, less developed now than it was in the Lee-Ditko-Romita days, one of the comic's long-term 'distinguishing features' is the occasional seismic shift in set-up, for gd or bad (most obv. death of gwen stacey)

But yeah. I really am not sure where all the hate is coming from. As far as "pomposity" in its attempts to approach real-world political problems, I think CW makes a lot more sense if you look at it not as some sort of metaphor for real-world civil liberties, but more like, if there were superheroes, this is the kind of civil liberties issues they'd have to deal with. That's a story worth writing, right? It's at least a story we haven't really seen before, except with Mutant Registration Act stuff which was always much more about racism etc. The superhero registration plot of Civil War actually makes a great deal of sense, which is why even though Stark and Richards are kind of getting the asshole card, they remain sort of plausible because there is a good argument for their position.

Is the discussion ultimately being reduced to black and white? Is it all going to come down to a big fight and a twist ending? Well, this is a superhero book after all. I'm okay with the discussion lacking subtlety so long as all the details are convincing and the story moves along. It's the little stuff that's making Civil War work - Deadpool realizing that this poses a great opportunity to rack up legitimate business targeting third-rate heroes; Conan O'Brien taking "wacky" odds on who Bullseye really is; JJJ being personally wounded and violently litigious in the same moment - this shit is all true to the characters and the universe, and feels new to me. What would you guys rather see, Onslaught II?

It was Power Man!

She-hulk got a great issue out of it, mind. Why can't all comics have JJJ in a spider-slayer?

But, yeah, otherwise OTM. It's pretty to look @, tho. And I am looking forward to CASANOVA's War Journal.

But hey, lots of people are going down so its not all bad.

Also, there is no Diary Of Ralph Dibny equivalent to Civil War (yet).

The thing that got me in this issue is how they've totally given up on making Iron Man and Reed Richards' side in any way sympathetic, and now it's like GO CAP! If you look at the final scene in Civil War #6, there's barely anyone on Iron Man's side who anyone would care to root for, it's just a bunch of no-names and She-Hulk. Meanwhile, Cap has all the popular characters.

I think the thing with Iron Man and Reed is a good thing for those characters -- it gives them a new arc to follow as they deal with what they brought to the world, and deal with whatever eventual atonement may come down the line.

I'm enjoying it a lot, though I'm following in a hit-or-miss manner.

it gives them a new arc to follow as they deal with what they brought to the world, and deal with whatever eventual atonement may come down the line.

This will be the ongoing Illuminati series' focus, right?

Uh, that was response to mike h.

And the stupid mini, when it's not flubbing up characterizations left & right, or opting out for the corny-ass twist (OMG TIGRA IS A TRAITOR), or setting up B/C-level characters for an untimely demise, is just corny & awkward. Seriously - WTF is the deal w/ MAJOR EVENT miniseries turning into Previews catalogs featuring what's happening in all the crossovers? Millar's been so vocal about how grebt Liefeld is, I think he's actually trying to become the writerly version of RL. If this is any indication, he's succeeded. (Steve McNiven, tho, he's allright. Get well soon, bro.)

I guess it's "cool" & all, but I'm getting sick and tired of "cool" that doesn't have any sort of substance. And "substance" does not equal "turning fun spazzy Speedball into PENANCE," for the love of CLOR.

THEY ARE RUINING IRON MAN.

It's like everyone writing the bits surrounding CW is bending over backwards to include the justification that Millar's mini requires, but wantonly eschews.

[xpost] - J, I've been feeling the Ultimate Uni a lot more than the regular uni since I hopped back in the hobby (at least where the Utlimate Uni & regular uni overlap, title-wise), but this nonsense def. makes me think my involvement in 616 Marvel shenanigans should be reduced greatly.

Except for anything Bru's writing, the Fraction War Journal, Runaways, Irrascable Ant-Bro, Mike Carey's Xing, Slott's goodness, & maybe 1 or 2 other things.

The Gage one-shot may have explained Iron Man's motivations well, but the Invincible Iron Man title sure didn't ("SUPERHEROES SHOULD BE REGISTERED LIKE GUNS"). Possibly the sharpest drop in quality evar.

The art, fwiw, by Young Avengers / CrossGen guy Jim Cheung, is sweet, & almost worth the price of admission. & despite Benids' name attached to the book, it's not very Bendisy @ all - I'm guessing the heavy lifting's being done by Brian Reed (who's doing a bangup job on Ms. Marvel).

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=96554

Robbie’s costume serves as a constant reminder of the destruction at Stamford. It has 612 spikes on the inside, 60 of which are larger than the others, representing the 60 schoolchildren who were killed. One particularly large spike near the heart represents the daughter of the man who shot Robbie. The costume aids in channeling the energy that is created from Robbie’s pain.

CHEER UP EMO KID!

mood: chagrined :|
np: Brenda Lee - "I'm Sorry"

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I'd really love to know why The Patented Millar Twist works fantastically in The Ultimates, but falls flat everywhere else. The "OMG THE PRISONERS ARE FREE" thing? Whatever. Also: that guns-ablazin moment w/ the Punisher - pfffffffffffft.

JQ: ...we have a project called Civil War: Fallen Son. It’s a five-issue series that is constructed within the five stages of grief. Grief over what? Well, you’ll have to wait and see. What I can tell you is that the series will move from character to character as they deal with a different stage of grief. All five issues are written by Jeph Loeb with a who’s who cast of stellar artists.

Issue #1 stars Wolverine (Denial), art by Leinil Yu
Issue #2 stars New and Mighty Avengers (Anger), art by Ed McGuinness
Issue #3 stars Captain America (Bargaining), art by John Romita, Jr.
Issue #4 stars Spider-Man (Depression), art by David Finch
Issue #5 stars… well that would kind of give the whole thing away. So sorry. But it deals with Acceptance and I’m also going to hold onto the artist’s name for just a bit. Sorry, I know, I suck.

NOT JUST FOR KIDS ANYMORE!!!

JQ: Yes. When Jeph pitched this one at the recent Solemnity Summit we were so provoked to thought by it that we had a minute's silence on the spot! I can pretty much guarantee that this will be the least thrill-powered comic of all time. It's going to make Civil War: Frontline look like Uncle Scrooge.

THE IMPOSSIBLE MAN!?!?

So sorry. But it deals with Acceptance and I’m also going to hold onto the artist’s name for just a bit. Sorry, I know, I suck.

SERGIO ARAGONES? THE GHOST OF SAUL STEINBERG? THAT GUY WHO DOES MALLARD FILLMORE?

(& please note that I paid cash money for this stuff, so my assessments might be slightly harsh as a result) (also, my memory, it ain't so hot, so don't mind me if I get details wrong)

* AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: uhhhh, the art's pretty fab, but if JMS isn't having Tony Stark speechify about why registration's necessary (NO BANANA NUTRAMENT?), he's having Mr. Fantastic speechify about his pink commie uncle, or he's having Captain America speechify about why "This Is Our Country" is awesome. Meanwhile, the first-person caption boxes are hitting Johnsian / Loebian levels of hero-worship sucky-sucky. And someone's gonna kill MJ or Aunt May or Jarvis or Rick Jones. Straddling the MASON-DIXON LINE, thanx to Ron Garney.

* FANTASTIC FOUR: if JMS isn't recapiculating FULL SCENES from CIVIL WAR, he's having Mr. & Mrs. Richards act like soap opera dinks. Or he's pairing the now-expatriated Thing with stupid-ass French superdinks. This crapitude is endemic of JMS's FF run, tho: he seems to be more interested in writing AROUND the FF, except when he's adding an unnecessary wrinkle to their origin. BURN IT DOWN, SHERMAN.

* MS. MARVEL: Aw, bless - she's on the "wrong" side of the fence, but the story (of her & pals chasing down various heroes on the lam) deals just as much w/ the folks on the lam (SHROUD NOOOOOOOO) as it does w/ her own inner conflicts. Hey - balance and perspective! What a good idea! FREE AT LAST!

* CAPTAIN AMERICA: Brubaker, god bless you. He sidestepped the HOUSE OF M nonsense w/ a one-off issue that shed as much light on the "real" Cap as it did on the x-over'd version, and he seems to be doing the same balancing act here, addressing CIVIL WAR w/out letting this nonsense take over his book. Please give HIM the next universe-wide crossover event, if he's dumb enough to take it on. FREE AT LAST!

One more time: horseshit.

EXACTLY. This whole thing has been teetering on the edge of being a gigantic idiot-plot up til now, but suddenly I can just about buy into it.

* CIVIL WAR: X-MEN: can't remember much @ all, except that Bishop almost died, and that weirdo from THE 198 (another mini I proudly bought w/ my milk money) got offed and Cyclops went nuclear and the Beast looked like Ron Perlman. Had more to do w/ that Decimation crap no one cares about instead of the Civil War crap no one cares about. Gonna have to ask Sherm to BURN IT DOWN.

* CIVIL WAR: YOUNG AVENGERS / RUNAWAYS: liked the interactions, liked Zeb Wells' insight into the characters, liked the TWEEST he found on some folks' powers, liked the art. But otherwise, meh. MASON / DIXON LINE.

* IRON MAN: did more to humanize the stupid Tony Stark in a handful of pages than Millar did in 6 months' work of crap. FREE AT LAST.

* PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL: despite only 2 issues coming out (THANK YOU RETARDO SCHEDULE), the presence of this almost justifies the entire enterprise. Never mind that this is the first time in a bronze age I can recall Punisher mixing it up w/ spandex twerps & not coming off as a punchable asshat. Mini Iron Men robots, folks. Mini Iron Men robots. That's what it's all about. FREE AT LAST.

* SHE-HULK: oh, Slottski. Tep is right-on - meh CIVIL WAR crap coupled w/ meh StarManWolf marriage fallout = MASON / DIXON LINE a-go-go. Rick Burchett, tho - keep him around for more than 4 issues, mmmkay?

I think I've managed to avoid all other x-over crap, which includes (as far as I can remember):

* CIVIL WAR: FRONTLINE (Penance? More like Penisance lol!)
* HEROES FOR HIRE
* WOLFERINE
* BLACK PANTHER

Oh, yeah - there were 2 one-shots. One w/ Howard the Duck & previews of CW spinoffs (MERSHTASTIC), and one w/ Captain American & Iron Man doing the flashback in an enjoyable MILLAR IS A MORON fashion.

Howard the Duck? Was it Gerber?

I've heard, from a reliable source, that his CW crossover has basically been big silly fun, so I suppose I'll look into that...

Such a big difference between PADfactor and PADSpidey right now.

*: not actually true.

I like the She-Hulk crossover, not so much for the actual civil war stuff as the J.J.J. issue.

I wonder what'll come of Slott's post-CW mini series, AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE.

I think JMS already DID imply the Scorpion is a totemic Scorpion Elemental.

[xpost]

He's writing a spin-off mini series. It's supposed to be "serious," which is fine - the one totally straight thing I read from Slott (his pretty keen Batman mini w/ Ryan Sook) was great.

I hope Squirrel Girl made it!

MIGHTY AVENGERS (Bendis / Cho): Iron Man, Ms. Marvel, Ares, Wasp, Wonder Man, Black Widow, & supposedly the Sentry (tho I REALLY hope not)

NEW AVENGERS (Bendis / Yu): Echo, Ronin, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Dr. Strange, Wolferine, Spidey

in up the Sentry's memories arse

Dr Strange as an Avenger for the first time instead of somebody like Dr Druid, though, that's cool.

And, frug dudes, even I know that the Initiative is the Fifty-State Initiative, which means a SUPERTEAM FOR NEBRASKA.

Of course it might be that Civil War #7 actually resolves the whole 'registration act'/divided-universe plot, but I doubt it.

The Dr Druid plot was around when I gave up comics the first time but I remember liking him (and that whole Stern/Buscema/Palmer era was really good solid stuff - Druid was the tail-end of that though).

Oh hell no. I still regard the current era as a blip, and am convinced they'll turn back into their 90s All-Suck Circus any day now.

Depending on how Strange is written, the problem with having him on a team is that he outpowers most or all of the rest of them -- though (depending on how they're written) that can be true of Thor or Superman as well. But Strange on the same team as Captain Marvel/Photon, Starfox, the Wasp ... I don't know.

So I disagree with you about NA being a pretty good comic, but you've got to admit that it didn't take a genius or any talent to know that tossing Wolverine and Spider-Man in there would make the book sell more copies.

Probably true, but I think the decompression and "shades of gray"-ness have been more obvious and jarring with the Avengers than most other "classic" Marvel titles.

There's an interview with Paul Jenkins about Penance on Newsarama. Go look if you want, I can't bear to link to it. Conflict. Means. Character.

Usually, at least after the 60s, that's meant bringing back a few previous members as well, but I don't think the Cap/Stark:everyone else ratio is too unusual. The fact that Wolverine and Spider-Man are big names makes it a little different, but it's true to the "Earth's mightiest heroes" bit.

The dynamic of the two titles/teams, I don't know, that's another matter -- ILC's the first I'd heard of it.

If that was their plan all along, then I guess we'll see if it works commercially once Mighty Avengers comes out. If old school fans avoid the new book because of Bendis, and newer fans avoid it because they think Wonder-Man etc. are lame (or whatever), then they'll be left with an almost completely alien Avengers franchise, at least as long as Bendis and/or Quesada are calling the shots.

I wasn't reading comics back during Disassembled. Did sales pick up as soon as Bendis was on the book, or was it only after the relaunch and the addition of Wolverine and Spider-Man that it became a best-seller?

And that's another reason Civil War and this new-fangled Marvel are pretty damn annoying: it's like they thought, "well, the kidz* already think that traditional Avengers and superheroes in general are squares, so we might as well make them as lame and stuck-up as possible". If you're not bursting at the seams with bad-assitude you're either marginalized or made to look like a dick outside of your own title. The only exception is Captain America; I guess if the primary, overarching point of NA and Civil War was to get him over as both an old-school hero and a bad-ass, then they've succeeded. Too bad he's gonna temporarily die and/or change costumes soon.

*: kidz being 13-to-49-year-olds who mostly all still think like 13-year-olds

Uhm, no. I like Marvel fine, but DC is where my heart has always been at (not that I read either "Civil War" *or* "52", really.)

and in that time he'll successfully add ginormous breasts to Kang, Diablo, Korvac, Henry Peter Gyrich, and Jarvis.

CIVIL WAR didn't foreground the innate "conservatism" / sense of compromise & authority inherent in Mr. F & the Avengers (specifically Iron Man), tho - it exaggerated it to a stupid degree, and made it (oh, the pun) comical.

Also, other than USAgent and Iron Man, I think you'd be pretty hard-pressed to find any record of political conservatism in the FF or Avengers. I don't think law enforcement or cooperation with the government are inherently conservative, politically, but Civil War's been written as if there's a direct correlation between the former and the latter. The results are just silly and cartoonish.

2) I think the same about CIVIL WAR, tho.

3) You're being kinda glib about what IC actually brought about; even if IC concerned itself, ultimately, w/ fleshing out the fringes of the DCU, CIVIL WAR seems deadset on giving the core of the MU a nice wedgie.

4) Your last post makes a whoooole lot of seemingly off-base presumptions. (hi Ward!)

5) Sore throats blow.

From the preview I spied - this guy.

These were the brands and properties which lost heat while the X-Men gained it, but after 3 movies, countless games etc. the X-Men are a pretty exhausted brand and so the company's pulling back and widening the focus. Like Claremont never happened!

Also I think the storytelling tone now is more 70s than 80s - a bit edgy, a bit anti-establishment and paranoid, more Gerber and Englehart than Shooter and Harras - and Civil War is a key step in moving Marvel back in that direction.

Reading back again this all seems rly obvious, but I'm posting it anyway!

WE WANT BROTHER VOODOO (tho I think he showed up in a book, too)! I MEAN NIGHT NURSE! I MEAN DEVIL DINOSAUR!

I would suspect some of this was coincidental before it became part of a deliberate strategy -- a natural consequence of writers coming up who'd grown up with certain characters and styles (Bendis's affection for Luke Cage and Jessica Drew is the most obvious example).

I'd be all for a revival of Marvel's wacky, mystical, and monster properties, especially these days when I don't think too many of them would be done Vertigo-style.

xpost; seriously, I had a Stegron proposal that I never got around to reworking after House of M made it impossible

Englehart's 'Secret Empire' storyline in Captain America (wherein it's strongly hinted that Richard Nixon is the evil mastermind out to discredit Cap) was obv. a response to post-Viet Nam blues/disillusionment, and Civil War is equally a post 9-11 comic

Even if THE RETURN is by most accounts a right turkey.

Marvel Monster Line to thread! (I think only David and I were reading this in floppies)

http://www.amazon.com/Marvel-Monsters-TPB-Steve-Niles/dp/0785118934/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_k2a_1_txt/002-7037895-0280817

BTW, there's MORE Monster fun coming soon - Man-Thing, Werewolf By Night, & MORE(bius)!

Even all the cosmic shenanigans going on of late (& an actualy new NOVA series) prob. have their root in this 70s revival, as (IIRC) the 70s were Marvel's most cosmic times (FINALLY all that LSD kicked in - thanx, Mantis).

PWJ is a lot of fun though, particularly Cap's unreserved admiration for him.

Hasn't this been kind of true forever? Or at least for a half-decade up until the first movie/Grant Morrison's New X-Men.

[xpost]

Yeah, I'm liking ANNIHILATION lots, but the Nova book was the one that disappointed me the most, tho I can't really pinpoint why. Maybe it was all the Richard Rider / computer in his brane interplay bugging me, I'm not sure. Abnett & Lanning could def. do something fun w/ this (see LEGION), but they've been meh-ing me of late (see MAJESTIC & some awful fill-in work), so I'm actually going to abstain. Unless the 4-page preview changes my mind. Or, you know, the sun rises. (Also, "superstar Sean Chen"???? From the pages of RAI & THE FUTURE FORCE? Come on, folx!)

(Also this was the era of the successful cartoon, wasn't it?)

I liked the computerbrane stuff least in Nova, but I don't know, something about it I just dug. Though Drax was better, Drax was kind of awesome.

As for X-movie synergy / revitalization: back when Marvel was fond of the 25 Cent Issue gimmick, they discounted an issue of Chuck Austen's X-Men to coincide w/ the release of X2. Said issue was first part of the fiasco where Nightcrawler was supposed to destroy the Catholic Church, I believe, which I think says it all (tho, like Andrew, I'm not really sure what it says).

This is going to be the first line in my Jim Thompson pastiche novel.

(POSSIBLY CONTAINS MSG OR OTHER SPOILERS)
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Uatu or Dr. Strange created the anomaly to bring Mar-Vell to the present because he'd change Hari Seldon's Reed Richards' equations. With the new info, Reed will be able to claim "oh ok, now that Marv's here, the world's not going to end after all. Call off the legislators!"

Well, it's a little of both. They definitely used a bit of the strength from the X-books (ie, Wolverine) to launch New Avengers and make House Of M what it was. But it seems like Marvel is making an effort to build up its other franchises in order to make them ripe for film adaptations, spin-offs, etc. I think they were spending so much time pimping Spidey and X-books for so long that they had underdeveloped a whole bunch of characters who have a lot of potential for success in the comics marketplace, and in licensing, which is where the company gets its big money. Quesada and Bendis have been pretty open about the fact that the company is making an effort to build up new and pre-existing characters with an eye towards making them fixtures of the universe -- Echo, The Sentry, The Runaways and New Avengers, that whole deal with The Hood.

CIVIL REPERCUSSIONS:

- Warren Ellis has Penance ineffectually banging his head against a brick wall while Bullseye gets sonned by D-list superguy (awesome)
- Punisher's (temporary?) new outfit cheeses off internet dinks (awesome)
- Spider-Man + JMS = WHINY LIKE CANNED HEAT SINGER (not awesome)
- Iron Man abuses terms like "pardon" and "registration" the way 24's Jack Bauer whips out "perimeter" & "damn it" (nooooooo)
- Captain America: STILL DEAD (yeah, sure)
- Black Goliath of Ebon Largess: STILL DEAD (lucky bastard)
- Captain Marvel: NO ONE CARES (w00t)
- Hulk & his warbound FTW (oh hell yes)