― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 03:15 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Scaredy Cat, Wednesday, 8 January 2003 03:27 (twenty-two years ago) link
IMPORTANT NOTE: I still think Britain is brilliant.
― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 03:28 (twenty-two years ago) link
And yet.
For all the idiocies and follies, for all the negative associations, the flag, more so than the seal with the eagle or whatever, represents to me a potential towards an America where all the dreams finally come true without hurting others, something that can be, even if it isn't or isn't always. Momus may have gotten a slam on another thread about investing the Constitution with a mythical tinge, but I think there's something to be said about the tinge in something so obviously keyed towards countrywide feelings.
My dad flies the flag every day and always has, and no blind superpatriot he. I don't fly the flag myself, but I understand the impulse.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 03:30 (twenty-two years ago) link
Quite the contrary, Scaredy. It's only when the symbols become completely divorced from ideas that they become important, and hence even more useful than before. I hate to drag the whole civil war/confederate flag dilemma into a new thread, but the very fact that people are willing to sue or scream and yell in protest over where they can or cannot hang a flag, when they most certainly would not seriously entertain the thought of attempting to assert the right of a state to suceed, seems to imply that the symbol has precious little to do with any ideas that it may have once represented.
In the same vein, note that any flag can mean an infinite variety of things to an infinite variety of people. What Ned said about it representing the possibility of all dreams coming true, I'd never thought of. This makes it versatile in a way concrete ideals never can--think schoolchildren pledging allegience to a flag, soldiers carrying it into battle, religious groups gathering around it to pray, Americans who pin Canadian flags onto their backpacks when going abroad (and not just cuz they're prettier)...
Basically, I guess I'm saying that flags are great propaganda tools, but completely meaningless in and of themselves. Gee, that seems self evident. But I haven't the hear to delete this whole post, so off it goes. :-/
― , Wednesday, 8 January 2003 04:01 (twenty-two years ago) link
Symbolism is indeed a powerful control device. That's why I feel the way I do about flags. I grew up in an anti-flag family, though, so that's to be expected, I guess. I never saluted the flag after 3rd grade or so.
― scaredy cat, Wednesday, 8 January 2003 04:40 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 07:50 (twenty-two years ago) link
*goes off into a daydream*
― nellskies (minna), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 08:42 (twenty-two years ago) link
BUT...
when i was in america october 2001, i understood the american impulse to fly the flag, the context is different. now, of course, i realise that i was there only a few weeks after 9/11 so that was an unusual time, but even so, the flying of the flag seemed to me not to symbolise aggression at all but community/society, something that we like to say americans dont do. even if it is only in symbolism, the fact of the matter is, it was there, it was palpable. the flying of the flags didnt bring to mind for me the same nagative associations it would in britain.
and it was interesting that the flags were flown by colombians, dominicans, poles etc
― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 10:25 (twenty-two years ago) link
so I have adopted a foreign flag and feel great affinity to the Palestinian one.
― DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 10:32 (twenty-two years ago) link
My point is really it's a piece of cotton dyed into a coloured pattern. I think it's just the concept of affiliating yourself with a patterned symbol (be it that of a street gang or a nation) that I find so weird.
― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 11:06 (twenty-two years ago) link
why are you being such a rockist about this?!?
― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 11:08 (twenty-two years ago) link
since when is focus on signs/symbols/image strange
It is strange to me. What can I say? It seems obviously strange. I always thought it was funny when people copied band logos onto their satchels at school too.
It perhaps relates to the contempt for the Starsailors, Withnails and Ashton Lanes mentioned on this thread too.
― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 11:15 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Nick A. (Nick A.), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 08:34 (eighteen years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/gyzv2Ol.gif
http://i.imgur.com/g5PFolN.gif
http://i.imgur.com/0FRpIJs.png
http://i.imgur.com/iArEv3S.png
http://i.imgur.com/4TDaXYW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QJQM8wq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uAZwFPq.jpg
― pplains, Tuesday, 14 July 2015 13:57 (nine years ago) link
flegs
― irl lol (darraghmac), Tuesday, 14 July 2015 13:59 (nine years ago) link
Why would anyone want to tread on a snake, been wondering that for years.
It may as well say DON'T EAT ME UP! or DON'T PICK ME UP BY THE HEAD!
― pplains, Tuesday, 14 July 2015 14:57 (nine years ago) link