What would public opinion be re: this whole affair were the party genders switched?

I wasn't nearly as forthcoming or extroverted with my crushes, but the privately nurtured belief that one random person could spell the difference between happiness and misery now strikes me as patently absurd.

Anyway: I don't think Kate's crush has been all that much more creepy or intense or anything than the average crush. It certainly doesn't seem to be entering into creepy stalky behavior. I just think she's been more vocal about describing its minute-by-minute fluctuations. This, I don't think, is a bad thing. I would be happy if she described other things (artistic process, say) in this much enthusiastic detail.

But enthusiastic detail is good, in my book.

It's one thing for people to get fed up with Kate talking about Hilton (though mostly you can skip those threads if you want), but I can't see anything sinister or dangerous or scary in what she says at all.

But again, I don't feel comfortable talking much more about this without some sort of okay first.

I opened this can of worms myself. I know. I preach "you shouldn't open up your private life to public examination if you don't want to hear what people say."

I DON'T use Hilton's real name because he doesn't post here, and he deserves to have his IRL identity that doesn't intersect with my mainia exposed as fodder for bored office people. Anthony afforded "David" the same sort of protection and no one cried for him to be defrocked.

My criteria by which I judge whether I am out of order or not is whether HILTON is bothered by it. He does not appear to be. If he were, I am confident that he would tell me and then I would stop. (Quite frankly, if he was bothered by it, I don't think he would be doing remixes under the moniker "Hilton Betelgeuse" or inviting me to rehearsals or offering to play my birthday party.)

Is it healthy? For me and/or Hilton? Probably not, but that's for me to decide and live with. Do my actions constitute stalking, legally or emotionally? Not at all.

As with anything else on ILE, if it really bothers you, do not read it, and do not respond. (I'll be expecting to see a secret "don't talk about Hilton" message any second now.)

and what of strong one way female-female attention? i wonder where the line is crossed there, in that people start to express concern.

as for when it has happened to me, i have never found it too tiresome. the phone can be taken off the hook if it gets too bad

I kind of disagree with Martin about the male/famale difference, cause by and large obsessive unrequited love never steps over into violence. You can make someone's life hell without them ever thinking you're going to physically hurt them.

There is always a danger of it becoming a dangerous situation, but the same is true of crossing the street. But it doesn't turn ugly all that often (or, at least, only one of my interactions turned ugly, and even that wasn't all that ugly), especially if people are as aware and self-conscious of it as Kate (and, it seems, Hilton) is.

Maybe I've been lucky, but that's how it's always played out for me (and my friends, come to think of it).

Anyway. If Kate started up an "I Like Hilton" board I would read it happily.

I think when women have crushes on people they know, they are judged more harshly than men if the admiration isn't romantically returned.

As far as outsiders reacting to others' crushes, whether briefly sketched or gone on about at great length, I see a great double standard generally between crushes held by men and those held by women. Men are let down gently and directly, while women don't seem to merit the same sensitivity (the desire people generally have *not* to emasculate the man in most social situations, the opprobrium women are met with when they pursue anything in a direct way).

Men whose crushes on women come to nothing get a bit of gentle ribbing from their male and female mates and then told, better luck next time. The main comment from other people seems to be 'you've got some nice qualities, you'll meet someone nice eventually.'

But when a woman has a crush on a man that she hopes to act on, and then has those hopes dashed to whatever degree, people, even mates, question her virtue, her sanity, her motives, her intelligence, her attractiveness, whatever. The gist of opinion seems to be 'ha, forget it, why would anyone be interested in boring little you?'

This isn't fair or right.

now of course i am not saying this is the same, just that when it is one way male attention, there is a point where a line is crossed. this point also exists when females do it. it is interesting where the line is crossed. women may not get the gentle ribbing, but perhaps the perceived lower possibility of aggression means they can go further?

im not sure, when it has happened to me, i have tolerated it, but i know that if i had pursued a girl to that level there would have been harsh words. i am not saying this is wrong, in any way mind, it is just interesting.

and now, while there is perhaps a lack of gentle ribbing, there is also a lack of lets get the authorities in (which is what one of my housemates wanted when it happened to me, because although i didnt feel threatened she did)

(maria is also correct, harmless posting on a board is not any kind of problem)

You say this as if it's some sort of good thing for men!

Fuck all: I still think this whole "men pursue women" thing is just idiotic and I hope it goes away as soon as is conceptually possible. Also I'm sort of proud of myself, because when I got near-immediately bored of the whole Hilton thing I actually managed to not pay attention to it anymore, which as was pointed out upthread is not always as easy as it sounds, especially as it does, well, tend to spread over into threads about other topics. (Also note that my getting bored with it should be no offense to Kate: crush on, do your thing.)

i am passing no judgement here (i never pursue so its not for me to say), just stating how i think society reacts to this issue

whatever.

Oh and Samantha, could you maybe work on being a bit less knee-jerk hard on Kate? I'm feeling the narcissism of (very) small differences in the attitude coming through posts you direct to her.

As far as outsiders reacting to others' crushes, whether briefly sketched or gone on about at great length, I see a great double standard generally between crushes held by men and those held by women. Men are let down gently and directly, while women don't seem to merit the same sensitivity (the desire people generally have *not* to emasculate the man in most social situations, the opprobrium women are met with when they pursue anything in a direct way). Men whose crushes on women come to nothing get a bit of gentle ribbing from their male and female mates and then told, better luck next time. The main comment from other people seems to be 'you've got some nice qualities, you'll meet someone nice eventually.'

I think things are quite the opposite of this! From what I see among my friends women with obsessive crushes generally have a very supportive and reassurring group of friends - a discursive community, in the sense of 'A Lover's Discourse' - while men who do that kind of thing are generally regarded as creepyscarynutfreaks!

This is really WHY I am far less interested than I used to be in gender roles, because I know that 'the rest of society' is working overtime on it. (I don't mean to advocate apathy, but I got myself into such knots as a teen feminist, becoming enraged with behaviour that was more entrenched than I could ever have realised at that age. Now I want to work on MY attitudes and way of living, I guess.)

I think ILXOR needs stirring up every now and then.

Kate. Go outside. Get off the computer. Take a fucking walk.

nice in the sense that he just took it from another thread thus forming a pretty continuum.

I am ammused by hilton's post - a v. brave move I think.

actually...I had a X posting with d. perry.