A thread for ChristineSH

Just... strange. If money is involved, it's nothing to do with me!

But if this *was* a response to my whinings, you know... reality check, I walk away from this still having almost no meaningful interaction with the world (or much of any kind), an empty diary schedule, an empty in-box, the World's Least Popular Web Site and a profound sense of worthlessness.

I ought to learn to be less honest, hadn't I? It clearly works really well for some obnoxious fuckers out there, so why not for me.

This was a strange feeling, as I felt my posting phase on here was about over. For a bunch of reasons, one being that 'outsider' syndrome. Being in a spotlight like this is almost the same feeling, though, in a weird kind of way.

I wish my brain my go away. It can take my life with it, too. I'm too fucking serious. Anyway, since this is *my* thread, I have the right to derail it. Done!

with an ability to entertain and impress people who've never met you.

How so? I'm curious about that. Yeah, this does come from extreme insecurity, and an over-serious mind, and the failed writer in me who prefers constructive criticism to mindless praise.

This thread was just mindless praise, a lot of soundbites, so I guess it means nothing to me. I feel a bit of a heel to not be overjoyed or something, but OTOH, I bet no one who used words like 'cool' or whatever could articulate any reasons why I'm cool. (I'm not cool, AT ALL, but I'd be fascinated to hear the alleged reasons.) I felt like my name was being objectified into something a few people could hurl meaningless platitudes at -- and this doesn't do a damn thing to make me feel less lonely or unwanted, because no direct communication with me was required! It's not like getting a card or an e-mail or something that feels 'real,' you know? As soon as I showed up on the thread and become a real person again, the thread fucking died! What a booster!

I think too much. But that's me, and maybe that's what people find so repellant about me.

I honestly don't think I'll be around here much longer, so it doesn't matter...

You are excellent though, please don't be driven away because of this.

But then again, if a better course for me would be to LIE about how I feel, what does that say about humanity? I have nothing to lose from being truthful. I've lived for 34 stupid years and managed to get all of one real friend, and if that doesn't make me a sucky piece of trash, I don't know what does.

This won't drive me from ILE, anyway. There are other reasons. One of them is that I still totally believe I'm an outsider, and that feeling compounds my issues dreadfully. Another is just personal. I have a problem with someone. My usual way of dealing with this is to put as much distance between me and them as humanly possible, because emotional wounds don't heal with constant reminders. This reminder is a virulent rash all over this place, so...

I was going to post actual examples of why Christine rocks, but Alfie pretty much beat me to it. Yes, we know a lot of your posts are "My opinion on this is that I suck", but even those are intelligent, articulate and witty. You're not so much seen as That Person Who's Unhappy as much as That Person We Wish Was Happier. I hope you can see the difference, or else not much on this thread _can_ help.

I think a lot of people in my position would have reacted the way I did (which was initial bemusement followed by being a little upset). The main difference is, most would go, 'Wow! Great! Thanks!' and then go off and have a private, lonely cry about it. I had a little cry too; I just didn't keep it to myself.

Do you think the biggest star in the world would give a shit about all the fans' distant praise if they had almost no friends, no one close? This was like that, except I have no celebrity, I've done nothing to warrant it, and only a minuscule percentage of this community contributed! And, POOF!, it's over, because I'm really *not* a celebrity, but I do have almost no friends or anyone close.

It's the sort of shallow, fun stuff you can get off on if you HAVE A LIFE. If you don't, it just serves as a brutal reminder. This is the truth, undiluted, and entirely non-flattering to anyone's egos... it depends on if this was meant to make *me* feel better or whether it was meant to just be a laugh for everyone else, really...

I can take a compliment. But only if it makes sense to me, I guess. The best compliment is to just talk to me and treat me like a human being, but that doesn't seem to happen very often.

That difference I said I hope you can see? You don't see.

Beginning to realise you don't like me either yet? I guess it'll come.

Uch, that was too harsh.

Okay, you're right, no-one here knows you, and none of us are going to come around and give you a shoulder-rub later. This was true before this thread started, and is still true now. But we are glad that you're here, and we're sad that you're sad, and we think you should know. I hope that sometime you'll be on for thinking about the second without it immediately being smashed by the first, and when you are, this thread'll still be here.

I have, I think, written more than enough here in a far too blunt manner, that my ILE Funeral has already taken place. Never mind.

Well, this thread mightn't have been what you were looking for, but I think it did as much as could be expected of a bunch of words and pictures on a message board. I don't think anyone thought it would solve your problems.

And as miniscule a percentage of ILE that responded, it's a larger percentage than the ones who've had a big-up thread of their own.

Beginning to realise you don't like me either yet? I guess it'll come.

Kid, I have friends that make you look like Mary Poppins. No offense :)

the feelings I expressed that inspired this

Stop! You didn't whine your way onto this thread, you rocked your way on. This isn't Care in the Community, this is people saying that, well, the stuff I said two posts back.

I have, I think, written more than enough here in a far too blunt manner, that my ILE Funeral has already taken place. Never mind.

I hope not, but I can understand if you have issues with one of the regulars, it could be bad (though the actual identity of the regular is astonishing to me). You have to make your decision, and I hope you'll end up happy & here.

This thread *did* seem to be sparked by a feeble whinge I had on the 'learn about yourself' thread. I'm sure it must have been that, because I've hardly posted anything else in the last couple of weeks. So, yeah, I'm assuming it was reaction to my whining, i.e. if I hadn't been whining this thread wouldn't exist.

The personal issue is just strictly personal. If I posted explicit details on here, I'd pretty much be guilty of one of the things I'm still angry about. It's not an active issue, anyway -- I'm just fucking intensely annoyed by the situation.

On the whole, I'm feeling pretty amazingly worthless right now...

As for feeling alone I think that although won't find any solutions here, you could find a great deal of empathy. All of my friends live an average of 100 miles away from me. The one person nearby that I thought I'd close to has now, after turning me inside out by asking me out three times and dropping out at the last minute each time, apparently decided to break off communication with me. But this thread isn't about me so I'll shut the fuck up. I'm merely trying to illustrate that your sense of loneliness is one I suspect a great many of us here share.

I wouldn't presume to tell you how you should react to this thread. It's our little gift of aknowlegement for the place that you hold here. I know I would have been very touched by the gesture, even though it was only a gesture and I like to think I would have accepted it in the spirit with which it was offered.

Don't stop posting Christine. This place would be poorer without you.

As an exercise in proving how wonderful ILE Assembled thinks I am, this was piss-poor. It was 15 people initially, in jokey mode, magically reduced to three when the hint of serious stuff appeared. What do you think that says? I think it says everything I need to know, because I'm sure that ANYONE, even if they were determined to leave, would just love to hear dozens of people going 'Don't!' Won't happen here. Really. If not for you and Andrew and Alex, my contributions to this thread would have been me TALKING TO MYSELF. A familiar feeling, that.

Anyway, I am, after all, an e-mail away, for those who allegedly think I'm so brilliant. Not that I expect my fucking redundant in-box to remain anything other than starkly empty, you understand.

This will have to be my swan song, I'm afraid, because I think I've just about humiliated myself enough at this point.

More than I ever got here...(not that i'm complaining)

Don't draw me into this further. Please. If it becomes argumentative, then I get to feel even shittier and more worthless. Actually, I already do. If that's anyone's intention, great. If I had any brains, I'd curb my curiosity to look in on this thread again. I am determined not to post again, because I imagine I've lost what little good will I had to begin with. So be it.

like i said christine i don't think the things you say about yourself are true, you've edited it so that only the negative stuff comes through. what i said was a bit suspect i guess - let me try it this way: you can be honest about your feelings without hitting yourself and other people around the head with it. talk about things that are good, that do interest you and that you do like as well as expressing more negative feelings. i'm of the opposite view of burmakitty, i don't think wallowing in negative feelings for extended periods does anyone any good. anyway i'm pretty clearly out of my depth here so i'm out!

this is very true: i've learnt from experience that wallowing in my misery makes me feel more miserable.

I've been doing that on here. Stuff that interests me, anyway. Not on this particular thread, though. Altough, I have nothing good to actually say about my life, because to be honest it's a total piece of shit. You think I'm lying for effect maybe? Really, I'm not. I'd love to have something to feel happy about.

You know, this thread, and my own response to it, have depressed me *so* much that I've thought more strongly about suicide today than I have for a while. It probably won't happen -- I have an elderly, windowed mother with angina who is at least partly dependent on me. That's my excuse for being alive these days, because for myself I can think of no reasons whatsoever...

we have no agreement in responses here. One person say lots of people would empathise, another says the expression of honest feelings is bad because it alienates people

these two responses are not mutually exclusive. i for one was saddened reading that you feel the way you do but at the same time didn't think i had a real chance of getting to know you while you're so miserable. i'd say most people do have empathy for you. not everyone converts that to sympathy, but the people who have responded on this thread have. anyway you don't have to listen to anything i say, i'm just an interweb mentalist! (hopefully someone wise reading this will see what crap i'm talking and put it right.)

Being an individual isn't worth it.

Too late now. Thanks for responding a bit. Maybe I'll bump into you somewhere else one of these days...

A1: "YOU ARE WRONG, you're not worthless."
A2: "You're right, YOU ARE WORTHLESS."

It's a stalemate because in your heart wrong = worthless. It's called a "double bind" or something.

I had that badly five years ago. I got out by accepting that I'm worthless, letting myself sink to the bottom (so to speak), finding that I was at least not wrong about that one thing (being worthless that is. I was. I am. Everyone is. Who am I to judge. Who are they to judge), which somehow miraculously gave me new self-esteem.

NB: This took weeks of moping and pissed everyone off.

90% of the time, silence is indicative of indifference or aversion (lurkers notwithstanding). No one can speak for anyone else, in any case.

Except you.

And as far anyone knows, most people on here DO think I'm a despicable fuck -- is anyone claiming to be psychic?

No-one except you.

I'm not trying to be glib here, I'm just pointing out that as long as you're the only one that gets to decide what other people's words mean, this thread holds nothing for you except an increasingly annoyed echo chamber.

This is positively my last posting. Don't try to goad me out of that.

General Random Questions
Random questions from magazines...
i was looking for a different set of questions but i found these ones instead and they seem ok. (does anyone know where that 'list four things ilx doesnt know about you' thread went?)

*sigh*

Getting To Know You (Part 492)

I don't go off on tangents particularly well, although people often seem to think I'm doing it even when I'm not. Most of what I write shouldn't be interpreted as anything but WYSIWYG, really.

The 'Getting To Know You' thing has some interesting replies, I guess. I probably read it at the time, but I wasn't posting regularly. I wouldn't know where to start or finish on something like that. I'd have to contrive something, and I hate it when I do that (that includes my stupid attempts at potty humour in a desperate bid for attention, pretty much).

You know, threads like that have little to no communication. I posted on here out of loneliness. That's all. I don't get an egotist's buzz simply from knowing I've made my mark on a thread... if I say something and it fails to register anything, that seems to me like a communication breakdown. There are loads of questionaires online where no communication is involved. I'm looking for something else. This is probably the wrong place. Haven't found anywhere else, though, and I sure have looked...

I wish you would take some of this thread to heart. You have obviously made a mark on some people on ILE, more than I have and I actually know some of them in real life . You talk of loneliness, yet people have noticed your responses to things, have decided they like you, and are trying bloody hard to make you realise it, despite you beating them off with big sticks at every opportunity.

I suffer from depression, and have been at the stage where everything seems worthless. If you are going to mention these feelings on a public forum, you are going to have to be prepared for people to want to comment. All of the comments on the thread have seemed, from an outsider's point of view, to be helpful, constructive and most of all - CARING.

You seem determined not to realise or accept that people do care, and that you have made a difference. OK, maybe you don't want to have made a difference, but you were lonely. People have tried to help - i don't know if anyone has mailed you personally but I would say that the response on thread should give you hope that people are your "friends". OK, the nature of interweb mentalism means that you may never meet them, but you should be reassured that people do care. I don't read anyone's posts to you as glib, or as anything less than well-meaning.

Please, I won't tell you to cheer up as that is the worst thing anyone can say, but please will you try to find some sort of acceptance in the comforting words of others? If you don't want to be on ILX anymore, that is your decision, but I feel that pushing good intentions back in the faces of others is a little harsh. You have mentioned that you feel bad about yourself, and we don't want to see that. OK, some people couldn't care less, but that is NOT the end of the world. The ones that care will ALWAYS be worth more than the ones that don't, even if you can't see it. Even if only one person cared, that's more than no-one, and as such a reason to feel better.

I really hope you are OK, and if you aren't happy with discussing this on board, please feel free to e-mail me if you need someone to "talk" to.

Sorry if you feel I'm interfering where it's not wanted, but I wanted to say this.

I know I've been posting around here for a very short period of time, but I felt I needed to post something in this thread.

I know exactly how you feel. I've struggled my whole life for some taste of acceptance. I was a huge joiner in high school, signing up for any club that would have me. That's how I got people to notice me. In college (the first go-'round), I was too brain fried to notice any human interactions that could go on, but I did go the joiner route once more, signing up for a couple of clubs that ended up actually helping me destress more than it did in terms of getting me new friends. I've had friends in the past, but have either ended up completely losing contact with them or choosing not to contact them in the end because I was always just too mature for them.

On the Internet front, I thought I had a sure deal with the one other forum I actively participated in at one time. I thought it was going to be my ticket to instant acceptance, that all of my self-doubts about being able to interact with others, about being able to "fit in" would disappear. Instead, it turned out to be a "too good to be true" thing as a number of factors, including my own internal thoughts of "I'll never be a success at this sort of thing," led to my not being able to truly connect in the end.

You know what, though? I was diagnosed with severe depression, a depression so pervasive that I was put on suicide watch for a short while. Now, with a combination of prescription drugs and therapy, I'm much better. I probably won't get over those uncomfortable feelings of craving acceptance and, at the same time, sensing that I won't get it, but at least they're not that strong anymore and at least I can sometimes have the confidence to tell myself, "I'm going to be myself, and if anyone doesn't like it, they can just take a flying leap, because I'm a wonderful person full of love and compassion and if someone doesn't recognize that, then it's their loss."

You know, honestly, though, I don't really think that the Internet is the best place to be looking if you want a deep connection with an individual. It's fine and dandy if you want casual friendships, friendships that are little more than acquaintanceships where you know far more about the individual. What really needs to happen, though, is a connection with someone who lives around where you live, someone who you can get together with after a hard week at work to go to a pub with and sip drinks and talk about everything from relationships to the state of the world. Even if you only find that one person, that will be much better than sitting at home, trying to find a similar connection with a group of thousands who live several thousand miles away from you and who do care about you but wouldn't be able to get to know all of you.

I'm sorry if this is all a ramble, as I'm just trying to type out what comes to mind first and foremost instead of trying to self-edit, but hopefully you do recognize what I'm trying to say in the above paragraphs. I know what you're going through. It's a real pain to have the feelings you have and it probably hurts you to lie down on your bed at the end of the day and sob your heart out as you fall asleep with your eyes in a tear-soaked cloud. I've been there before and don't want to be there again. Anyway, I care about you and hope you eventually get to the place I'm at right now, where I'm still struggling to find myself but at the same time have this confidence in myself I didn't have before.

*hug*

i think i actually agree with christine, in that most of the things said here do seem a bit platitude-like. if there are only compliments here and no other contact, then a page full of "you are cool" is pretty meaningless, especially if there is no sense of why. just seems a bit random i guess. especially if that is all you get. if you are lonely a page full of "hooray" surely just highlights how lacking in "hooray" you actually are in day to day life?

when i was homeless and a bit down last year i got quite a lot of "you are cool" type things on my thread that i started about it, but the difference i think is that i had gotten to know the people. there were emails and calls as well, plus i see quite a few people on here also. and i felt a certain empathy, to me, it seemed like the people who posted were people who liked me, so it was definitely appreciated.

so, yeah, i can see why christine is not overjoyed. but by the same token, you cannot demand or expect more than platitudes. you have to get to know people, to like people before you get more than that i think. this why i dont do platitudes, and this is why i havent posted one on this thread. i have to mean it if i say it.

Otherwise, you're very near the mark. The thread was basically very impersonal -- or at least, that's how it felt to me. So it made me cry a little bit. And, to be honest, my assholish responses made me cry, too, because common sense tells me I should've bottled it up. As I said before: too late for that now.

Dee... I have only one personal friend, who lives more than 100 miles away. Connecting locally seems to be a real problem for me -- I really dislike the area but am stuck here for the foreseeable future. I don't like most of the people much, either. I've seen no real prospects for connecting with anyone nearby. The Internet only seems like a solution, potentially, because it's there and there's nothing else around. I'm not sure I only want 'deep' connections, but, you know, the odd e-mail and more sense of communication on here would mean more than what this thread originally started out as.

As to the one friend, well, most of our contact *is* occasional e-mails. We might meet up about once a year the way things have been lately. I know this person cares, but it doesn't make much difference to my feeling lonely.

I'm not clinically depressed. My life's just rubbish, and I have a fairly normal reaction to that. (Some people, of course, will deal with that by pretending things are better. But I don't see any point, ultimately.) I have a certain amount of control over how I feel. I won't kill myself for mom's sake, for instance. I've gained enough control that I don't cry myself sick all the time and send my blood pressure through the roof and cause really bad acne. I've been there. I've learnt to regulate it to an extent, largely by blocking out the things that cause me to feel this way. It takes an awful lot of energy, though, because those things are most aspects of my life. The effort leaves me quite listless and weary at times. It would help if there was good stuff boosting me, but honestly, there's nothing good happening in my life. At all. The best escapes are books and movies, but you can live inside those things. They give me a break, help me relax and forget the reality briefly.

Minna, I don't think any of those questions would tell you a damn thing about me, really. Maybe it'd work for other people, but I know when I'm faced with something that asks me to contrive, nothing really useful will come from it. My favourite colour is purple. There. Something about me. But not much. Okay, if I was in a flippant mood, maybe I'd feel like bothering. But I'm not. You learn about other people through communication, not soundbites. I can only do soundbites when I feel indifferent about it all.

Ailsa, one person e-mailed me. And I did e-mail someone else. But I'm actually quite reticent about initiating any exchange that is based totally in negative stuff, really, because past experience seems to tell me that this ultimately defines the relationship and leaves it with nowhere else to go.

Thanks for the responses. It does mean something. I'm not sure what, exactly, because in some ways I do think it was a mistake for me to post on this thread at all. I'm angry with myself about that. It seems to suggest I'm making an attempt to flag my departure from here and gets lots of attention. In truth, I'd already wound down my posting activity and would probably have quietly disappeared. So I think all this crap on here from me was a bad thing...

Feel free to illuminate the good stuff I'm missing through flawed/depressive perception. Sometimes, things really *are* shit. A fact of life. I don't think they've invented a pill to fix these things yet. Am I coping? I'm alive. People have killed themselves for poorer reasons.

I wish my perception *was* wrong. I look for good stuff every day, and every day I'm disappointed. Trying living this for a week. Just tryin even imagining it. I don't want to be a professional invalid here, but I don't need my rationale questioning either. I'm as lucid as you could want. I used to have a drink problem. I nixed that. Without help or support. I miss the numbing haze sometimes, but I won't ever go back there. Unfortunately, it's possible for your eyes to be too open. Things are bad. That's all.

'Nuff said...

(The answer's *never*, BTW.)

What I didn't want was this thread ending, as it began, with a stream of empty soundbites. Answer the question I asked above, and then you have an answer to what this 'caring' stuff really amounts to in any real, personal sense. I see the 'right' noises a lot on ILE, but I'm not always convinced there's anything underneath. I was probably a fool to come here at all. But it felt like, and maybe even was, a final desperate attempt to feel like a part of something. Right now, I officially give up. I obviously don't belong on this planet.

Take things too seriously? Sure. When you're straining to find reasons to be alive, everything seems incredibly serious.

so, no, there is nothing underneath. there isnt in life i am afraid. unless you make it so.

As for interacting with people, you know, my experience on ILE -- this thread aside -- is that NO ONE fucking interacts with me! Which is why this thread seemed SO DAMNED SURREAL when it first started.

Anyway, haven't I made enough of a fool of myself now? I think so.

If you mean people saing they enjoy reading what you write, then that's okay. We'll just wait until you're gone :)

Any other friendships were forged over time. I've been posting here for a couple of years so any online friends I've made have taken awhile to develop. I didn't start posting and right away find myself surrounded by offers of genuine admiriation and the sprouting of deep friendships.

As for email. . .I really don't write much email. To anyone! I'm sure a some other people are like me. Most of my online communication is via this site and AIM. I know you've been in AIM chats before.

Anyway the bottom line is anything more than superficial takes time. And even then it is limited by this medium.

Yeah, AIM chats... where 90% of it is 'in' stuff I don't even understand, so I sit there in silent confusion feeling totally left out. Usually, I don't even get a 'hi'. Big deal. It makes me wonder why I was invited at all, except maybe to bump up the numbers.

And REALLY FUNNY, Andrew. I split my fucking sides. Honestly. Still finding this amusing? I'm not. I've just gotten to feel progressively worse and worse, right, and if anyone truly believes lecturing me on bogus shit-arsed non-points or making jokes has achieved anything... GET. REAL. Basically, no one even agrees with me and feels it's necessary to argue the toss with even though I feel like a piece of shit. If I was a maschist, I'd be in heaven. Being told to fuck off would've felt a lot cleaner, somehow...

The nature of ILE, as far as I can see, is that people respond to what people say. When you are funny, when you are yourself, people like that. When you are negative and refuse to see it, then people are still trying to help, tand you are shutting it out. If you could let people in, if you could accept yourself the way others are seeing you, then you could maybe feel better.

You wonder when you will hear from anyone if you leave ILE. I offered a private ear if you would email me, but you haven't. I'm not initiating it, because basically I feel you won't respond favourably, just as you haven't responded to anyone here. I also feel you are doing depression a disservice by dismissing it so out of hand. Fuck, I went for years without wanting to admit to depression. OK, it's now an easy handle for explaining why I'm a miserable pain in the arse, but it has also opened me up to dealing with it.

If I felt like this without reason, I'd agree...

Oh, and depression can stem from reasons, you know. Look into it a bit. And don't ever feel like it's wrong to feel like this. What's wrong is not realising that it can get better.

What people have said here may seem superficial to you, but I bet it's all from the heart. People care, please let them do it, and appreciate it. And take some comfort in it. Please.

(In any case, I've encountered a distressing number of people on those wretched pills who were *still* more suicidal than I am, if not actively attempting it in some cases. Stuff that, I say, and it's my final word on it.)

The issue, then, is NOT can my depression get better... it's CAN MY LIFE GET BETTER? Right now, I've hung on and hoped for SO long, I'm kind of losing all trace of optimism there.

Now: people trying to help... how so? Lately, all I'm seeing is pissant attempts to argue with me. I can do without that. That's really the bottom of my list, so if anyone feels the urge, don't bother. Not unless you understand in advance that you're DEFINITELY going to make me feel worse.

The nature of ILE, as I see it, is that unless you're an insider, one of the gang, blah-de-blah, you have to make maybe 15 or 20 posts in order to get perhaps one or two brief responses. That's why this thread seemed surreal... normally, no one talks to me! It's like I'm talking to myself 90% of the time! Maybe I'm actually really popular -- but so what, given thayt no one talks to me, I feel TOTALLY UNPOPULAR. I'd have rather people DID respond to me a bit more than mount a lame, impersonal, indirect 'tribute' thread such as this.

I didn't e-mail you because I don't know what to say that I haven't said on here. And because I'm sick of getting into exchanges that are less than positive and it ending up with the other person somehow blaming me or getting angry or just cutting me dead somehow. I'm not having a repeat of that again. (Actually, I think I just DID... and I'm really incredibly pissed off that I got suckered into it.) If you e-mail me, I won't respond badly. I will respond cautiously, I suppose. But I'm not sticking my neck out and having a fool made of me for the 10,000th time. I'm just not in good enough shape to keep taking stuff like that. REALLY.

I wish I could take comfort from this stuff, but it's not working. I don't know why. Maybe it's just that it feels ephemeral -- if I want to hear that someone cares, I want to know they'll be in my life in some way in six months' time, or at least hopefully will be, and I know that's not true of any of thise stuff. It's a brief moment in time and when it's over -- when this thread is over, which can't be far off now -- it's gone. In a puff of smoke. Something that ephemeral just doesn't mean a thing to me... because I've had to deal with nothing ever being certain or lasting all my life, never feeling entirely safe or secure, never truly feeling like I belong anywhere. No, I don't feel I belong on ILE -- because I feel I've made a lot of dishonest postings on here... weak attempts at being a pseudo-intellectual and making a fool of myself or even weaker attempts at being a joker and making lots of dirty/suggestive cracks... neither of those are ME, you know. I was just making various attempts to 'fit in,' and thereafter feeling lousy about their lack of integrity. If you want ME, this thread is the closest you'll find on ILE -- for better or worse, and if people dislike it, then that's the truth... they dislike ME. I am not the pseud, I am not the comedian. All masks off, do you still like what you see? Maybe not.

I could use some comfort. Yes. But maybe I don't deserve it.

Today was a very bad day. Hence I make even less sense than usual.

Weird how I've left ILE but still post here. Mostly cos this is the only place anyone'll talk to me, and hey, this is the most human interaction I've had for several years. I fucking WISH I was joking.

*sigh*

Shit, I'm really soory to hear that. If there was something I could do to make it better, I would. If I was there, big hug. But y'know, I'm not. I can't. I'd mail you, but it doesn't sound like you need a correspondent who often leaves weeks between mailing people he's been friends with for _years_, and that's me.

I'm also sorry that I pissed you off earlier. I find it funny, in a pretty black way, that insisting that we do mean it, and we're not lying, only serves to piss you off more. Though, er, I can understand if you don't see the funny side.

This is the bit where I sound like a broken record:

The issue, then, is NOT can my depression get better... it's CAN MY LIFE GET BETTER?

These aren't necessarily entirely separate things. You say you're depressed, but this can color a lot of your problems, like for the most obvious instance the local friends thing.

The nature of ILE, as I see it, is that unless you're an insider, one of the gang, blah-de-blah, you have to make maybe 15 or 20 posts in order to get perhaps one or two brief responses.

Yes! That's the nature of ILE, not the nature of you. Unless you're in the London/Dunedin/NY mafia, you don't get discussions like you would out if you were down the pub with friends. I've never mailed someone on the boards that I haven't met. They're nice disembodied voices, but they're not "friends" friends.

I'm sure this will just piss you off, but you'd probably get better percentages if less of your posts were thread-killing "my opinion on this is that I suck". You're getting into this loop where you see yourself as someone who just whines, and this chips away at your self esteem etc.etc. You'll probably say that this isn't being honest to yourself, but (my view is) you decide between different people that "you" can be a hundred times a day. Whichever "you" demands that you're only just a worthless shit probably isn't worth being honest to.

Something that should maybe be said about "My life really does suck": no-one is really of the impression that your life is actually sunshine and roses if you'd only see it: your life does suck. It'd flatten me in under a week, by the sound of things. But the second half of this thread is people trying to suggest ways that it might suck less (after the first half of the thread manifestly failed to do so). Like ailsa says, we might suck at the helping, but we are trying.

because I feel I've made a lot of dishonest postings on here

I don't know about that, but I've read a fair few of your posts, and there's a strong association between Christine SH and interesting post: even on most of the "I suck" ones, there's usually something.

Anyway, that's all I have to say at the moment, take care.

PS: you are not your life.

I'm sorry I've never posted to you before. I'm just trying to find my own way around here, and perhaps I haven't before felt the need to respond to one of your posts. I would love to get some of the British references you guys make, I know that. I've loved British culture ever since I started listening to the Beatles and read Francis Hodgson Burnett's The Secret Garden, both at the age of three. Yeah, three. Talk about an early introduction to freakdom -- being able to read something eleven-year-olds normally read when I'm a little over 1/3 of their age. Anyway, I love British culture, and I think you guys are really cool and would chat more often with you guys if I knew more about those little pop culture inferences you guys make in your posts.

As for the "depression" issue, you seem to be an individual who views that disease as a sign of weakness. It isn't, really -- it's just something that happens, an ailment that pops up much like the flu would, only the flu doesn't stick around with you for the rest of your life. Maybe you don't feel you have it, but from what I've been reading of your posts, it sounds like you do. Everyone out there has their own tragedies and major life difficulties -- you ask any random individual out there to name five of their most unpleasant life moments and they will very likely shock you with all they've gone through. I could go through things that have happened to me (and to my family) over the last two years that would make Oprah Winfrey choke back huge tears, but I don't. I just view that as life just grabbing you by the horns, humbling you, making you aware that the precious moments that do happen in your life are to be cherished and adored.

Really, it's all in how you handle those rough patches. I feel that spirituality of ANY kind does tend to alleviate some of the pressures of everyday life. It's not religion-specific -- I'm a practicing Catholic, but you might want to turn to Buddhism or Taoism, Shintoism or Hinduism, Christianity or Judaism or Zoroastrianism or paganism -- any of the -isms that are religious or sectarian in nature, rather than cultish in nature (because cults are bad, mmmkay?). Even if you take little elements of the religion (meditating or doing yoga, for example), you reap the benefits. I was really fortunate in my senior year of high school to be able to take world religions and to have that religion teacher teach us all how to meditate, because it's really helped me out when I've gone through especially high-stress moments.

Of course, you could look for other stress-reducing activities as well. Playing sports, for example -- gosh, if I were the same body shape I was ten years ago I'd love to get back to tennis -- either competitively or for fun, or getting involved in some arts & crafts activity, or some other hobby you could take up. That's how quite a few people I know who have even more stress than I have get through it all. That way, you can move through life without wanting to tear your hair out.

Yikes, this is a long post. But hopefully something I've posted will help you out. And no, I'm not trying to say "cheer up," because only totally clueless wankers tell you to "cheer up". I'm just trying to help you find ways of navigating through whatever you have to navigate through and find that balance in your inner life that will enable you to be at least much happier with yourself.

Depression -- you know, there's no way of differentiating between reactive and clinical depression. Not even a test for it. They seem exactly the same because, physically, they *are*. Except one has an external cause, the other purely physical.

My reasons for being down... it's not that there are unpleasant things happening in my life all the time. Did anything unpleasant happen this week? Not really, not in the way you mean. We did lose our dog and my father last year, both almost at the same time. We do have a very bad financial situation and moving to a more affordable home is proving incredibly difficult on our budget. That stuff's incredibly depressing and unpleasant. But overall, I'm depressed about my quality of life. I don't *have* any. People on here can imply I've got it wrong and that a warped, depressive perception is making me see it incorrectly, but that's an easy answer -- if I honestly thought I could take a few pills and life would suddenly seem great, I'd do it. Realistically, it ain't gonna happen. (Actually, I was watching a documentary about Seroxat last night, and one doctor on there said it's a *big* mistake to prescribe stuff like that to people with 'life problems'... and, yeah, I think that describes me pretty well.)

I don't see disease as a sign of weakness. I do consider myself fairly weak, and I think I've unashamedly shown my weaknesses on here. It'd be *more* flattering to the ego, really, to dismiss all my problems as being medical, but it just isn't true. I'm no good at denial.

Spirituality... no can do. I'm a lapsed Catholic. To give a respectful opinion on such things, I have no time for it. If I can't believe in it, there's no point even thinking about it.

Sports -- same answer. I'm not in particularly good shape either. I do have hobbies that relieve stress a bit, I suppose. I read a lot. I maintain a blog no one reads. I draw occasionally, if quite poorly. I used to write a bit, but I've lost all motivation lately, due to lack of ideas mostly. They have limited value, though. I walk away from these things and life is just as lonely and pointless as it was before. Temporary escapes. Not solutions.

As for being humbled by life... yes. If any precious, worthwhile moments showed up, I'd appreciate them a hell of a lot. Unfortunately, I spend most of my life looking for them, as I said before, or hoping for them, and invariably being disappointed. I'm not just saying this. This isn't just depression talking. I've done ONE social thing this year, right? Back in February. Before that? 12 months earlier, February '02. I've socialised three times in the last 18 months. Is it even possible to make that sound worse than it is? I wouldn't have thought so. I'm stating bald facts.

I don't know how to find balance with my inner life when my outer life is so futile. Maybe I could just choose to dismiss external existence completely. Maybe I could pretend I'm a recluse by choice -- that'd flatter my ego a bit more, huh? Nah, that wouldn't work.

Andrew, it's not a case of not appreciating people trying to help. But what am I to say? We get back to the expectation of pre-programmed responses here -- would people rather I responded by saying, 'Yeah, great, that'll really change my life, thanks!' Even if that isn't true? I mean, I can lie about it if you'd like that better. Just say the word. Otherwise, all I've done is answer those things as honestly as I can -- i.e. NO, I don't think taking anti-depressants, for instance, will help me very much. It might even make things worse. No one can say for sure.

I can't figure out what your take on my previous postings is, you know. On one hand, you tell me I rocked my way onto this thread, I'm fascinating and wonderful, etc., on the other you tell me my regular whining is off-putting. I was being hyperbolic, really -- not that great a percentage of my postings were whining. Less than 50%, for sure. I made a lot of bad jokes on some threads... and I think that *did* amuse a few people, although not me, because I felt I was making a rather cheap attempt to fit in. (I do have a mild sense of humour, but that stuff really wasn't me. At all.)

The local friends thing might be a *cause* of depression, but that's about it. I'm being horribly judgemental -- I just don't like the people round here as a whole. It's a working class area and falls into all the worst stereotypes. The average IQ is probably quite low. Racism and bigotry in general is almost default. The local population almost forms a homogenous mass. For the time being, I'm stuck here. That's a bad feeling.

And no, I didn't come on ILE hoping for a cure to all this. I just thought it might make life seem a bit less lonely. It did, sometimes, but not much and not often. I'm just a tiny voice lost in a sea of frenzied noise. The Internet's a last resort, really. I don't know where else to go, though. I'm open to ideas, but I'm kind of resigned to not finding anything at this point...

Okay, so you're trying. Thanks for trying. That's all I can say.

Getting To Know Absolutely Nothing Useful About Me

But... did you learn anything useful?!

(And yes, I was hoping this wretched thread would at least get past the 100 mark in postings. It has to have something going for it, and it sure ain't content...)

(And I sneaked it up to 100 now. Let's have a funeral.)

I've noted Christine's posts on many threads, and had checked out her webpage once. And I hear her complaint about not being responded to. And my response is that Christine, you probably perceive some big group of peope here who are all talking directly to other individuals or a group of same from which none or few people, besides you, are excluded. And that's completely wrong. This is a collection of people talking into a void. Some know each other very well, clearly, largely as a result of time and proximity. And some people who don't know each other at all talk to each other directly, sometimes at length. But most of us here are throwing words (and pictures) up and trying to get them to stick, if not for someone else then for ourselves, with varying success by measures that vary according to each individual ILXor, including the poster. I suspect that certain regulars are addressed more than others simply because they have been here long enough or posted in enough abundance that many people have addressed them in the past and thus it seems more natural for others to do so (see an example above - I am more comfortabe referring to gareth because I see a lot of other people doing so; I don't know him at all). But instead it may be that they are the most interesting people here and/or they put the most effort into this place.

While your posts are admirable in some sense in that they are upfront (if sometimes indirect) about the desire to connect with other people, including the people here, often that seems to be all they are saying, i.e., their relationship to the thread itself is rather tenuous. If you want people to be interested in you, you have to make some effort to be interesting. Express your opinions. Be wiling to talk, even argue, about something other than yourself (yes, perhaps everything is really about yourself, but you're supposed to pretend, somewhat; that's how we learn to relate to one another). For one reason or another, likely better known to you than anyone else, but I could raise suppositions about fear of failure or just simple resignation, you seem unwilling to make the effort.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh; I hope sincerely that it's not, though I'm aware that I'm not a master of tact. But I'm more interested in giving you an honest response here.

(I think that's the most to-the-point comment I've made on this thread, oddly enough.)

You weren't too harsh. Your comments were interesting. Thanks.