Painting graffiti: c/d?

OK, I understand how graffiti *can* be a fine art, but I think taggers should be castrated. You want to behave like a stray dog marking your territory, then be treated like one.

Search: Banksy, the Phun Phactory in Queens, subway cars dressed up like giant psychedelic balloons

Destroy: idiot teenage boys leaving their initials all over blank surfaces

Another reason why tagging should be discouraged is because retarded adolescent males feel the need to imitate those who actually can draw, and leave unintelligible scrawl over almost every blank surface - really bloody annoying.

I think tagging has very little to do with "imitating those who actually can draw"; it's more of "making your mark the only way you can, since you're are a teenager (or otherwise disempowered)". I'm not a big supporter of tagging, but I can totally understand why people do tags, and it doesn't ruin my day seeing them. And some of them really are quite good-looking.

The whole thing just reminds me of dogs urinating on lampposts to mark their territory. It just does not seem a fit thing for a civilised human being to be doing.

Banksy obviously = classic.

I don't why is this, though. It probably isn't just because tagging is against law, since rich kids do drugs and other shit. Perhaps it's because the powerlessness and the dull and grey environment working class kids live in makes them want to do something about it, whereas rick kids have other forms of expressing themselves and making their mark. Plus they live in areas where the surroundings look nice, so they don't need to be "improved" by bombing.

I do like seeing it, though, but I wish most graffitiers (?) would read Upski's Bomb the Suburbs, as that really sets some good guidelines (i.e. no tagging, scratch pieces, etc.).

Sigh. Do you really think this is why people bomb? Back when we used to do it, we sure as hell hadn't seen any breakdancing videos from the 80's.

By the way, am I correct in thinking bombers are nowadays more active in Europe than in the US?

Tuomas, I'm willing to wager that the reasons why Finnish youths tag and why Brits or Australians do are quite different. A lot of the people I knew who tagged did it specifically to make themselves feel cool and fit to an image. The ones who didn't fit into that category were the only ones actually putting up pieces, and they were in it for the art.

Graffiti artist can do some nice work, I'm reffering to the kind with the building owners permission, Lee's Palace is a good example.
Best piece I even saw though was somone on a train yard wrote:
"All Your Train Are Belong To Us"
which was later corected to:
"All Your Trains belong To Us"
by someone else.

This one of the reasons teenagers (including me, when I was one) do it here too, but for some reason tagging is usually considered cool only among working class kids, not among the rick ids. Of course a big reason why kids start to tag is that older/cooler kids do it, but this doesn't answer the question why people start to do it in the first place. Has anyone any opinions on this, other than my "theory" mentioned above.

saying, "Oh, I like the big colourful pieces but tagging is dirty vandalism" is such a boring, predictable bourgeois (!) way of looking the situation... and it really irks me.

Kephm's right, in a way. Tagging... this great, secret, insular underground network of people writing to each other in code. Just fantastic!

What the fuck are you talking about? Secret? Great? Insular?

There is no secret code here. There is no fantastic underworld. These are just a bunch of kids who have, for whatever reason, decided to leave their mark on other people's property. Scratch a tagger and you'll probably find a depressed bonghead who's about as disenchanted with mainstream society as everybody else. Tagging is so commonplace (and boring) it's almost a pop phenomena.

actually look at this duncan cumming site, there is some great stuff from arouhnd the world.

also, search for 'wide'.

From what I can gather, tagging is largely territorial. A bit like dogs pissing.

Do the supporters of tagging live in an environment where every wall/fence/train/bus is covered in scrawl (rarely even a proper 'tag')? I do and it's fucking ugly!
If you would be happy to find your house & car bombed and still defend the 'artist' as 'beautiful, exciting, energetic' then fine - colour me bourgeois!

http://www.marana.com/police/graffiti.jpg = ugly and pointless, no thought or skill. (best google has to offer - I could take better(worse) examples on my way home)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38047000/jpg/_38047679_banksy_150.jpg = Sublime

I've just realised that this was from Frank Kogan, and not Darni3lle at all.

I think boredom and social disenchantment are two quite different things. Rich people can be bored too. But the feeling you can't really alter the conditions of your life is something different; by tagging you can at least leave your mark on something, and a lot of people will notice it too.

side note:i will say i have seen an increase in horrible tags these days compared to pre-1995. somewhere along the line tagging became hip & trendy (just like DJ'ing-right?),and the newbies just go out & spray their mess with no stlye or grace.

the most respected tags are not even in plain view people. they are deep in subway tunnels, dangerous bridge overpasses, etc.

(this thread is one of many that shows how white-middle-upper class ILX is--this isn't a bad thing per se, but typical.)

my first ever I Love Music post

i think what tuomas calls tagging and what most of the other people here call tagging may be two different things. here tagging just refers to the ugly black marker pen scrawls that are everywhere, the painted art is something different (and a lot better)

(sorry if this is obvious)

andy

which i don't understand. but there you go. i also don't understand why people proclaim their love for football clubs and why they choose to do this by writing THFC (for example) in public toilets.

i am obviously old.

andy

Thats quiet the suburban way of viewing 'the others'.

but if art = strictly sensory info that changes your perception of the world then i think tagging certainly qualifies, Mr Noodles

and the outraged liberal pieties that it's drawing to the surface here are certainly in line with what great art has done

Im fucking overwhelmed.

I fully expect all tagga h@tas to curl their lips with irritated scorn when confronted w/"Moustache Painted on the Mona Lisa" or whatever it's called though, just to be intellectually consistent.

I remember reading that they even had graffitti in ancient Rome, crude scrawlings, old-school wildstyle, and I remember thinking "kewl"

Drawing on sidewalks with chalk is ok. Big ups to Mr. De La Vega.

"side note:i will say i have seen an increase in horrible tags these days compared to pre-1995. somewhere along the line tagging became hip & trendy (just like DJ'ing-right?),and the newbies just go out & spray their mess with no stlye or grace." kephm

"Obviously, a bad tag is awful" OCP

"Yeah that's pretty lame" Tracer Hand

Graffiti ruins the cityscape for everyone. People who spray paint their names on other people's property, or even worse, on 'the people's' property are selfish pigs. They should have to clean up their messes with their tongues.

That said, I have been a vandal, off and on. Most recently, on.

pretty awesome imo

http://www.blublu.org/sito/video/muto.htm

Tagging private residences. Isn't this an unwritten no-no?

I walked by the alley-facing wall of my house-- tagged on average three times a week-- and saw a kid spraying and didn't know how to react. Like, "bad tag, son!"

you should've given him a wack

Well, I did photograph him with my phone without breaking stride. The picture didn't take, but they didn't know that.

Oh, yeah, they-- artist and spotter-- chased after me and asked me to show them my phone to ask that I delete the photo. Kid was shaking with rage and fear, it was cute. I felt bad. I did say, though, "isn't tagging private residences off limits?" He then started threatening me and saying stuff like "were you gonna snitch on me".

snitches get stitches fyi

how did it end?

I told him I'd show him my phone if he stopped tagging my place and he said OK. The spotter even apologized. When the kid said "I can't go back to jail" I actually laughed, there was no way this kid had ever been to jail.

Here I'll show you his pic