disturb the pillars of capitalism

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By Breaking glass storefronts, a few modern day hippies hope "smash the pillars of capitalism in Montreal." Alongside such powerful statements as spray painting BMWs and wearing wooly caps a few rich university students are ruinning a week of summer for the poor folks who have to work in such wonderful career jobs such as Gap, Starbucks and bank telling at BMO.
Can someone please explain how breaking storefront windows in a beautiful city is going to smash the pillars of capitalism?

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

It's more like smashing the windows of capitalism innit.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

http://www.thestar.ca/images/thestar/img/030729_wto_protester_250.jpg
Is this the new emo kid look?
Im pretty sure thats a Tim Horton's cup on the ground, the fool could be doing more good by picking up that litter.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

Dude, if emo kids started dressing like that, I'd become emo immediately.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

Shopowner: "sigh...they've smashed our windows in again, this will lose us a good few hours business"
Colleague: "You know what Clive? Maybe they've got a point...I mean we are pretty symbolic of the evils of capitalism, ethical or otherwise"
Shopowner (Clive): "My God Sandra you're right...I've been living a lie all this time."
Colleague: "My name's not Sandra it's Amanda"
Shopowner (Clive): "You're fired"

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

These kids need to take some structural engineering courses at uni.

Crying about capitalism == the new crying about ex-girlfriends?

― Dale the Titled (cprek), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

http://www.urban75.org/photos/protest/images/may05.jpg

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

Automatically pigeonholing anti-capitalist protestors and hypocritical richkids - classic or dud?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

AS hypocritical richkids, even.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

Thank god you changed that typo.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

dud, but it is a recognisable stereotype that serves as a shorthand allowing dismissal of issues raised.

i'd be interested in how the class composition of anti-capitalist movements have flucutated since the 1960s. also, comparisons of england and other european countries

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

yeh...and they shoulda added another arrow to where the nearest Boots chemists was...for cakes of soap....yeh....

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

I know I'd like to be able to fly to Montreal.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

What issues are raised by breaking windows other then which poor sap that has to sweep it up?

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

Syndicalists, Anarchists, Trotskyists, Maoists, Revolutionary Communist Leaguers, etc etc

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

politics as a vehicle for hooliganism. they would join any cause that let them self-righteously raise hell.

― ryan (ryan), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Thats not an answer Gareth.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 12:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

Was it worth fighting fascists when it meant killing conscripts?

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

(NB my sympathies are broadly w/Mr Noodles but that's the counter-argument nobody's making yet.)

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

There are none - breaking windows is a rubbish way of putting any point across. It is, however, more likely to get you on the news, all publicity being good publicity and all that.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

It's just that there are much more productive ways to "disturb the pillars of capitalism" than, you know, smashing shit like Liam Gallagher, and doing stuff like this isn't exactly helping people who actually do give a shit about the cause for reasons besides dressing like a ninja and breaking things.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

i wasnt defending or attacking the point (i was posting the link before your question, but was slower than you).

my interest is in matts point about "are people of this type" overly stereotyped as non-proletarian. i am interested in the social make up of this

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:05 (twenty-one years ago) link

Clearly someone who could afford all that fly-ass ninja gear is not hurting for cash!

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

Maybe they sewed it themselves out of hemp that they grew in their community gardens, did you ever think of that?

― NA (Nick A.), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

I guess the logic is to hurt corporations by costing them money directly (through the damage) and driving up their insurance rates and rentals.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

The night stick???! Hippies are talented.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

That's no night stick, that's a bong!

― NA (Nick A.), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

Those costs'd be tiny overall to a corporation, surely? But actually wouldn't putting "FREE" stickers/signs on as many parking meters as you could manage be a better idea?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

I guess the logic is to hurt corporations by costing them money directly (through the damage) and driving up their insurance rates and rentals.

And spraypainting privately-owned cars accomplishes what again...?

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

the decline of Mdonalds at least is surely regarded as a triumph for the window-smashers who probably feel they can take some credit for the closure of several branches.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

What I think stood out most to me about the article, btw, is that while yes, they did damage to a few "pillars of capitalism", most of the businesses quoted in the article as being affected by the protests seem to be mom & pop shops--well done, everyone.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

Where is Slutsky and Cybelle when yeah need them.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh there are all sorts of better ideas, I'm not denying. But the #1 priority for a consumer-facing company like McDs or Starbucks is convenience - customers are not nearly as brand-loyal as they'd want, and if property owners in a well-off area say "well look, actually we don't want you here because your windows keep getting smashed" and they have to go somewhere more out of the way, that's a big deal in visibility and convenience terms.

The problem is that I don't think this actually happens.

Spraypainting privately-owned cars accomplishes nothing other than to send a basic "hey rich people, your property isn't sacred or safe" message.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yes, but how does that affect the WTO or Starbucks, Inc.? Again, it seems to point far more to the concept that they aren't fighting anything at all--they're just bored college students who had nothing better to do that day than ruin everyone else's life (including far more restrained, sensible protestors)

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think what tom is saying is that if they have to move => not convinient => ppl stop going to McD.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

It only affects them on a local level, sure. The thing is, if this happened on the kind of level that might actually affect them, wouldn't they just hire security?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think part of Gareth's point was that not all of these people in Montreal were window-smashers. The media like to focus exclusively on the vandals. Also, Matt's point is a good one - having observed some of these types on mailing lists & bulletin boards (they're famously inarticulate), and met some of them in person, I'm sure a lot of them in a different era would be plain old juvenile delinquents. However, there is also a long history of spoiled kids engaging in thoughtless adventurism, so there is some truth to the stereotype. However, a lot of their critics haven't exactly dedicated their lives to improving working conditions for maintenance workers and cashiers.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Mom & Pop shops in that article are complaining about being affected by the decision to hold the WTO meeting in the middle of the city and the resultant security cordon - the only businesses quoted as being directly affected by the protests (glass smashing etc) are Gap and Burger King.

Julio is right - I'm not agreeing with it, I'm saying that's the theory behind this kind of direct action. IMO I don't think it works.

I agree that they're ALSO bored college students who want to smash stuff.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

Andrew having security on a family business is a big buzz-harshener, and a worried consumer is a tight-pursed consumer.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

And BMO which is a Canadian bank with no sweatshops, no global takeover plan and a long 200 odd year history in Montreal.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

Nice security. A large friendly fellow at the door. Mostly these places aren't really short of customers as things are, right?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

Also, for them, the most insulting thing you could do is call them "hippies". They're urban guerrillas, man!

― Kerry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think banks count as pillars of capitalism even if they're nice old ones.

Short of customers? No indeed, but as someone posted upthread McDs hasn't been doing too well lately.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

I was meaning afterhours when customers aren't an issue, anyway, I'm pretty sure. I imagine multinational corporations can fit this into their budgets.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

Is there a big difference in terms of age, social group, etc between UK-based socialist/anti-capitalist protestors and their European/Canadian/US equivalents?

I am not sure the decline of McDonalds is in the slightest bit related to anti-capitalist activity. If anything, its more to do with the rise in number of more varied (and often healthier) competitors.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

Also, if you work in McDonalds, you are approximately 50 times more likely to get your window smashed by a drunken nutter than a posh trot dressed as a ninja.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

YES competitors! I'll defend Wendy's against any number of students!

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yes Matt this is true. When I worked in retail the day which was absolutely guaranteed to cause the most mess/damage/overall grief/police work was the Notting Hill Carnival which happened down the road. "Someone will have to clean up after me" is a truly excellent thing to take into account but it's often quite selectively applied.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

I wonder what the voting percentage for rioters is.

― bnw (bnw), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

My question was about the vandalising private property ie cars, Julio/Tom, not about how smashing a Mickey D's affects capitalism. So again:

bnw, I think several political threads prior on our very own ILX will show you the dire voting percentage of the youth of today.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 29 July 2003 13:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

Skipping 236 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

NO. For fuck's sake!

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 22:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

N. - e-mail me

― spoon ered (spoon ered), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 22:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

Do I have to? I was just going to bed!

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 22:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

Which email address, anyway? The published one of person you really are? NOSPAMspoonered@excite.com without the NOSPAM? With the NOSPAM? Through one or other webmail link? Jesus, the internet is a fucked up place.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 22:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

without the NOSPAM

― spoon ered (spoon ered), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 22:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

is this thread any good or should i not waste my time?

― kephm, Wednesday, 30 July 2003 22:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

the best and the worst of ilx is all in there, kephm!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 22:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

plus, isn't it spelled fascism, with an "s", like as in "fasces", bundle of sticks tied together icon, supposedly representing the grouped-together strength of ancient rome? blah blah

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 22:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

Spooner and Calz:
I cram to understand you.
And I'm out.
One love, yo.

― MC Lyte (Oops), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 22:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Pashmina: Yes but it's funnier this way

― Millar (Millar), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 23:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

Er... Dada to thread?

― Chris Barrus (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 23:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think he got preempted.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 23:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like how everybody is copying Calz's horrid typo to try and make sure he understands
er, millar, which typo¿ please, please don't tell me you're refering to the correct spelling of "colour".

― dyson (dyson), Thursday, 31 July 2003 00:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

"facist"

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 31 July 2003 00:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

ah ha ha – i didn't even notice that. but i'm probably the worst offender when it comes to typos.

― dyson (dyson), Thursday, 31 July 2003 00:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

eat my fuc, facist, etc - BRING ON IT FUCKFACES!

― Matt (Matt), Thursday, 31 July 2003 00:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

PS I'M JABBING A MONKEY IN THE EYE WITH A MASCARA WAND RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Nicky Wire (mlescaut), Thursday, 31 July 2003 01:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

Gee, I hope he calls when it's 4 AM EST. That'd be super.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 31 July 2003 01:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm waiting by the phone, waiting for you to call me up and tell me I'm not alone...

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 31 July 2003 05:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

i think what is also interesting is how the anti-globalization movement in the usa seems to be somethign that is operating outside of the main political sphere, but in england seems to be an extension of the political sphere. But i think single-issue politics are something that is well covered in america and the UK, what is specifically interesting to me is the social and political make ups of similar movements in the rest of europe

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 31 July 2003 06:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

oh well, another thread destroyed by gareth.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 31 July 2003 07:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

I would just like to irrelevantly say that members of the mixed-race community in SA are called "Coloureds", often specifically "Cape Coloureds". Just because I think everyone should know that so that when you meet a South African and he says the word you don't think he's a weirdo. He will obviously be an idiotic and loud boring fuckwit - we all are - but that's all.

― Sam (chirombo), Thursday, 31 July 2003 07:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

to irrelevantly say

Bang goes the MA.

― Sam (chirombo), Thursday, 31 July 2003 07:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

I notice no one has yet answered my question about why the anti-capitalist moment is so ineffective at using eye-catching initiatives other than smashing windows and generating primarily negative publicity to catch the attention of the impressionable masses.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 31 July 2003 07:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

Matt - maybe because it's difficult to be anti-capitalist and 'aesthetically pleasing' simultaneously because people's aesthetic standards have been conditioned by market forces?(>> If more people were educated to find random destruction pleasant and attractive then that would be a major step forward!) Anyway Matt you ruined the thread for me as I was about to post a detailed defense of masturbating to cult slasher flicks

― dave q, Thursday, 31 July 2003 09:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

Since when was random destruction not aesthetically pleasing? Every Hollywood blockbuster of the last 20 years to thread please, regardless of slash content and or ratio of jizz expelled thereof.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 31 July 2003 09:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

I am sad that nobody called Calum a rascist.

I am trying very hard to feel appropriately censorious towards spoon ered but then I'm also trying very hard to keep a straight face. If this nonsense starts up again though the thread should be locked.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 31 July 2003 10:05 (twenty-one years ago) link

The people who smash windows are not part of the anti-capitalist movement.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 31 July 2003 10:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

Calum - cheers for the email, and yes from the links you sent it is clear that is James Blount making the posts. The guy loves you, be afriad!

P.S. What a dump this thread is.

― Bloggs, Thursday, 31 July 2003 10:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

This is for you, JB:

Tonight it's very clear
As we're both lying here
There's so many things I want to say
I will always love you
I would never leave you alone

Sometimes I just forget
Say things I might regret
It breaks my heart to see you crying
I don't wanna lose you
I could never make it alone

Cause I am a man who will fight for your honor
I'll be the hero that you're dreaming of
Gonna live forever
Knowing together that we
Did it all for the glory of love

You'll keep me standing tall
You'll help me through it all
I'm always strong when you're beside me
I have always needed you
I could never make it alone

Cause I am a man who will fight for your honor
I'll be the hero that you've been dreaming of
Gonna live forever
Knowing together that we
Did it all for the glory of love

Just like a knight in shining armor
From a long time ago
Just in time I'll save the day
Take you to my castle far away

I am the man who will fight for your honor
I'll be the hero that you're dreaming of
Gonna live forever
Knowing together that we
Did it all for the glory of love

[3x:]
I am a man who will fight for your honor
I'll be the hero that you've been dreaming of
Gonna live forever
Knowing together that we
Did it all for the glory of love

― Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

There is nothing unloveable about the Karate Kid II theme song.

― Larcole (Nicole), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

Apparently New Found Glory did a cover of it! Who knew!

― Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

It does almost seemed removed from its context, that one. As opposed to that "Almost Paradise" crap that Ann Wilson and Mike Love did for Footloose.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 31 July 2003 13:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

If Footloose was made today, it'd be set in NYC!

― Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 31 July 2003 13:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

Haha!

Kevin Bacon rides into town to save a city run by Preacher Bloomberg...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 31 July 2003 13:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

By dancing to A Flock of Seagulls and smoking indoors!!!

― Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 31 July 2003 13:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

As I was scrolling down that lyric I was desperately hoping that it was a message from Calum. It would be his best possible response. Most of his troubles come from the fact that he is incapable of such a thing.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Thursday, 31 July 2003 13:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

By dancing to A Flock of Seagulls and smoking indoors!!!

CRIMINAL. To the chair with him.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 31 July 2003 13:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

Did you actually get any work done today, then?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 31 July 2003 16:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

http://www.powerpointbackgrounds.com/templates/banging-head-against-a-brick-wall-01.JPG

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 31 July 2003 16:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

Considering you removed my last post, in which I did nothing wrong other than to offer that cunt Blount an outlet for his seeming perverted fascination with me (i.e. I WILL meet you and I WILL take great pleasure in kicking you in the face) I think it's about time you deleted shit from him like:

"why are you allowed to denigrate and call for violence against anyone who's not a straight white male subject of her majesty the queen and I'm not allowed to call you a misogynist racist facist jackbooted thug?"

Which is fucking defemation of character if ever there was one. As somebody who was the victim of racist middle class pricks I do not wish to be one on this forum and I learned long ago that the only way to deal with racists is to kick them hard between the legs. [violent threat removed by moderator]

― Calz (Calz), Thursday, 31 July 2003 16:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

And my only wish for braindead Ally is that she comes back a beagle in a science lab and sees how fucking sick, revolting and twister her pro-vivisection arguements are. That the supposed liberal ILM would defend someone who admits to wearing fur is SO LAUGHABLE IT MAKES ALL YOUR TRENDY SOCIALIST (but not really) CRAP LOOK LIKE THE 6TH FORM MUTTERINGS IT IS. Show some conviction if you're really for all this and tell the animal torturing cow to fuck off.

Thank you.

― Calz (Calz), Thursday, 31 July 2003 16:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

Threats of violence, however unlikely, will be removed.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 31 July 2003 16:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

Kind of sound hypocritical talking about "perverted fascination", don't you Calz?

― Larcole (Nicole), Thursday, 31 July 2003 16:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

one month passes...

searching for some book today I found an article I ripped off
from a local paper. Thank google, I found a copy online (spared me the trouble of scanning it):
http://www.montrealmirror.com/ARCHIVES/2003/080703/news3.html

Liz Lofts is a 19-year-old University of Victoria student and part-time lifeguard who has come to hang out in Montreal for the summer. She was one of the 340 people arrested following the anti-World Trade Organization (WTO) protests last week. This is her story, as told to the Mirror.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 25 September 2003 22:27 (twenty years ago) link

eight years pass...

http://www.urban75.org/photos/protest/images/may05.jpg

lol

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 26 April 2012 23:04 (twelve years ago) link

haaaaaa

― Choad of Choad Hall (kingfish), Friday, 27 April 2012 05:52 (twelve years ago) link

i might use tt as a generalized linkdump thread for anticapitalist stuff rather than starting a SMASH THE CAPITALISM thread

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 27 April 2012 06:25 (twelve years ago) link

one year passes...

http://i.imgur.com/5SyKpOU.png

― 龜, Wednesday, 26 March 2014 02:23 (ten years ago) link

i wish my hair looked like that

― markers, Wednesday, 26 March 2014 02:31 (ten years ago) link

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