Okay, now a London transportation question...

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So, if I'm in London from Saturday to next Monday, then Thursday the 16th through Sunday the 19th, does that mean I just should get a 7 day travelcard when I arrive? And they require a photo with that? Or is the seven day thing unable to be spaced out that way? I seem to remember having such a card back in 2001 but I can't remember all the details...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 04:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Does that mean you won't be using it for two whole days? it might not be worth it.

― adaml (adaml), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 04:31 (twenty-one years ago)

especially if you DO have to fork out for a photo. I can't remember if you do.

DAILY travelcards are probably what yer after.

― adaml (adaml), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 04:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, I won't be in London for that stretch of time, that's my Dublin jaunt. Thus my question as to what's the best approach here!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 04:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Sounds like you won't need a weekly card, but try here, I'm not sure what zones, etc you're using

― adaml (adaml), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 04:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah yes, this Oyster dealie. Hm, I wonder I can get one at Heathrow? *checks* Sez they're not available yet per se in seven day format? *ponders* A mystery...

(This is all part of my 'get as much ready as possible' plan here -- already booked my ticket to Luton and back for the Dublin trip, double-checked the passport, made sure I have an adaptor for my shaver and iPod...)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 04:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm afraid it's new to me, too. They must have introduced in the last 2/3 months. You might want to wait until the Britishers rise from their pale, malnourished slumber.

― adaml (adaml), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 04:41 (twenty-one years ago)

And in terms of zones, since I'm staying with Martin in East Ham, I guess I'm using that zone and inward most of all. And that's right on the border with zone 3/4, it seems...

Yes, that's right, they have to rise up, drink sugary tea and boil beef. I've heard of this. Then they all have surgery to make their chins weak.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 04:42 (twenty-one years ago)

you can't get an oystercard, and you can't do the 2 days off thing, either, i'm afraid. if you only wanted zones 1/2 you wouldn't need a photocard, but you will for zone 3.

a weekly travelcard is only worth it if you'll be moving around before 9:30am, cos travelcards are a couple of quid extra then; if you're doing that a weekly one might be worth it.

also get weekend travel cards on the weekend, they do sat+sun for around £6 instead of £8+ for two separate ones.

oh, and you're probably best off getting a single ticket at heathrow and then a travel card later in the day, cos travel cards including heathrow are expensive (esp if you're there before 9:30am, when they cost £10ish iirc).

― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 04:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll be there at 12 noon or so -- so you figure I should just get a single ticket from Heathrow to East Ham, a weekend travel card for the rest of the weekend, single ticket from East Ham to King's Cross for the Monday and then back again on the Thursday (or maybe just a daily card for the Thursday anyway)...then a daily travelcard for Friday and Saturday and a single ticket back to Heathrow? Does that sound logical or not or...?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 04:52 (twenty-one years ago)

sounds sensible to me.

― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 06:33 (twenty-one years ago)

i'd get a one day or weekend travelcard on Saturday Ned, even from Heathrow i'm sure it'll be cheaper than buying a single to East Ham (this will cost at least £5 i think). plus if we're fapping for the football uptown somewhere then you'll need it for the rest of the day too.

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 07:59 (twenty-one years ago)

also ned, if a travel card is cheaper the heathrow to east ham the machine/ticket office man will sell you a travelcard anyway...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Weekend Travelcard is certainly the cheapest option for the weekend. Then look at your journeys. £4.50/£5 for a travelcard after 9:30 isn't bad at all and works out favourably for the zones. Though of course if you just want to swan around on buses after you are here (my suggestion) then an all zone all day bus pass is only 2 quid.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 09:00 (twenty-one years ago)

ignore pete about buses, obviously.

(actually taking the bus is often a good idea, but i think it's less of one when you don't know your way around.)

― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 09:01 (twenty-one years ago)

It is more of one when you don't know your way round. All the bus stops say where they are these days... And the spider diagrams on bus stops are great now.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 09:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Also if you only do busses which might be a bit much from east ham a weekly bus pass is on £8.50 for all zones or £2 daily.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 10:01 (twenty-one years ago)

East Ham -> West End on a bus is madness! It takes FOREVER.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 10:11 (twenty-one years ago)

But think of the sights!

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 10:25 (twenty-one years ago)

They scrapped the 9.30 am rule about travelcards ages ago, thanks to Ken.

― suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 10:57 (twenty-one years ago)

They didn't exactly scrap it, you can get a travel card before 9.30, but you pay through the nose for it.

― Vicky (Vicky), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:14 (twenty-one years ago)

So it's the same as the old LT card?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:29 (twenty-one years ago)

but you can use it on the overground which you couldn't with an LT card.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:32 (twenty-one years ago)

pre-9.30 travel cards are about 25% more expensive than post 9.30 ones.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:44 (twenty-one years ago)

A peak travel card for zones 1-3 (i.e. before 9.30 am) is £6.20. An off peak zones 1-4 is £4.50.

Coming from Heathrow, a weekend travel card, zones 1-6 is £7.60, only 90p more expensive than a 1-4 weekend travel card.

― Vicky (Vicky), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Might be worth bearing in mind: any form of Travelcard allows you on any bus, so a Z1-2 T'card will get you about on Z3 or Z4 buses. I can't imagine you'll be wanting to bus it to Z2 when Martin lives on a tube line, but it's an idea.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:51 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/fares-tickets-may2003.pdf

― Vicky (Vicky), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:52 (twenty-one years ago)

woah, really Mike?! So I've been paying 70p to go an extra zone from my travel card for nothing?! doh!

― Vicky (Vicky), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:53 (twenty-one years ago)

he is quite correct

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, you've been able to do that for the last two years. Yay! Ken.

Though it means I'll never see Emma caught on a bus for not paying the fare ever again.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:57 (twenty-one years ago)

woah, really Mike?! So I've been paying 70p to go an extra zone from my travel card for nothing?! doh!

Yes - it's on p23 of that PDF document above. They introduced that sometime last year but weren't terribly good at advertising the change.

x-post

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I had a quick look and saw it, they've been appauling at advertising it then! Thank god I 'chanced it most times. Unfortunately it means that I'm more likely to be a lazy sod and wait for a bus, rather than walk to the tube...

Sorry Ned, we've gone off topic a bit!

― Vicky (Vicky), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I remember that coming in. What a boon it was. I can't decide who is best - Ken or the Rapture.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:06 (twenty-one years ago)

definitely Ken.

I'm getting my Oyster card this afternoon, and I'm worryingly over-excited about it

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:18 (twenty-one years ago)

i got my Oyster card today. i keep worrying it won't work and i'll hold everyone behind me up faffing, but so far so good

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:21 (twenty-one years ago)

i paid £8 for an all zone travelcard at 8.05am yesterday tho - bah

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

i love my oyster card. i'm not allowed to go on about it though or my girlfriend will hit me.

― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Can someone explain this 'Oyster card' to me? I saw signs for it when I was last in London but it made me think of congealing bottles of oyster sauce and I didn't investigate further.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:32 (twenty-one years ago)

tell us about yr oystercard Toby, what scrapes have you got up to with it?

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I love my Oyster card! It lets me go places! With the merest touch on a yellow pad thing!

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I love the DJ's on nightbuses idea. I was on the last bus back to Penge on Thursday and the Arriva MC bigged me up. It's a wicked idea.

― Daryl, Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

The queues at Brixton have put me off the last two times I've had Oyster dreams, so the transport revolution will have to wait until November at least. There's also the question of maintaining friendly smalltalky terms with the woman in the newsagents, which I've gone on about elsewhere.

Do you have to fill in some kind of application before they give you one or can it be done on the spot? And how does one renew the thing thereafter? Oh, I can't be bothered looking it up, I'm supposed to be working.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/tickets/smartcards.asp?expandOnly=menu1&sideMenu=menu1option9

― Vicky (Vicky), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Phil Neville!

― Daryl, Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Mike, you can do it all online so you will never have to venture out again. Er...

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

My question is: how do I know it's going to run out? do I get a warning a couple of days before somehow?

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry ned...

anyway (from the above link):

On the Underground the following work has been completed as part of Oyster:

Ticket gates are now installed at almost all stations, which has helped to reduce ticketless travel.
149 stations have been gated as part of Oyster
2 stations are yet to be completed (part of wholesale station redevelopment schemes)
3 stations are to remain ungated

but which three are they?

finsbury park seems a likely one, but where are the other two? i mean, even camden's got them now...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 13:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I could only think of Finsbury Park too, maybe one of the ones out way on the met line like Chalfont & Latimer? It ain't Uxbridge though.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

well waterloo, waterloo and city line, I believe is one of the '2' mentioned above

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 13:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought you went through Barriers to get down there, you do from the concourse anyway.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 122 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

i don't remember those. North Metroland (Watford and ting) is still in A/B/C/D segments i assume?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

yes it is (at least I don't have to travel out to them)

― chris (chris), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 13:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Just had a bit of a google, and it turns out my feeling was wrong.

Originally there were four zones: west end, city, inner and outer. After the first reorganisation, west end and city became 1, inner 2, and outer 3. Outer was then split into a, b and c, which later became 3, 4 and 5. 6 was added later.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)

There is very little on the interweb about this, which I find mildly odd. Surely tube ticketing is exactly the sort of geeky subject that should be covered in great and staggering depth online.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I think they're all on uk.railways.london, Ricardo.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 13:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Or, uk.transport.london.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

ricky, i think you have found your PROJECT, make it so :)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Oyster gremlin - swiping into Waterloo East to then walk out of the station at the Southwark side - it doesn't let you. I was told that this was because if you exit the same station you enter, you have to wait 15 minutes before exiting that station. This seems madness. Is there a reason?

Ticketing is not geeky enough. The geeks only care about the trains, curses gnash gnash etc.

I did not know this trick with the travelcards and buses. Never again shall I pay for a 131 from Norbiton to Wimbleydon.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha, I have posted on uk.transport.london! I looked there first.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 14:00 (twenty-one years ago)

You have to wait 15 minutes to re-enter, not exit. Their gates must be bust.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Chris, if you go to Heathrow you can then get a normal service bus to Maidenhead. I just mention it in case you want to come and help me feed the ducks / grab a squirrel.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 15:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I like this 'service bus' concept. Is it full of squaddies passing round one tiny ciggie and turning the air blue?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

As opposed to 'Heathrow Express' like what posh Reading gets. I imagine it's full of pensioners, the others all are.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm going to bear that in mind Mr Miller. Probably after the wedding though

― chris (chris), Thursday, 15 April 2004 07:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Are those handwritten cardboard tickets with "I am a political refugee from Kosovo" valid for the ABCD zones?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 15 April 2004 08:22 (twenty-one years ago)

January 4th 2001 is the answer to Marianna's question way up a bit.

Waterloo East is a train station therefore the only journeys an Oyster can do must involve the tube. If you have got a Tube from Waterloo to Southwark you are a mentalist and therefore you deserve to be detained for being STOOPID.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 15 April 2004 08:24 (twenty-one years ago)

"Waterloo East is a train station therefore the only journeys an Oyster can do must involve the tube."

HEIN?

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 15 April 2004 08:25 (twenty-one years ago)

re refugee cards, i never saw one north of Ealing Bdway or Kilburn

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 15 April 2004 08:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Pete is talking nonsense.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 15 April 2004 08:31 (twenty-one years ago)

taxis in london are way too expensive. it pisses me off.

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I do like getting on a bus to find the poor conductor hasn't been issued with an Oyster reader. We both shrug at each other in a resigned "heigh ho, this won't work" way and get on with our bidness.

― Sarah (starry), Thursday, 15 April 2004 08:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Whilst you can use an Oyster as a travelcard, you cannot buy exclusive train tickets (say Waterloo East to East Croydon) on an Oyster pre-pay as the pricing structure is different for the zones etc etc.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 15 April 2004 08:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I was thinking about this last night, so people with pay as you go oyster cards get free bus journeys?

― Vicky (Vicky), Thursday, 15 April 2004 08:38 (twenty-one years ago)

i like walking to most places

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 08:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Er, yes, but nowhere did Dave mention prepay!

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 15 April 2004 08:51 (twenty-one years ago)

while bus/train conductors without oyster readers generally just shrug and go whatever, you cant guarantee that. on a train the other week i was asked to show the receipt for the monthly travelcard i bought online. i said i was unable to provide a receipt as my credit card bill had not arrived yet, and that even so, it wouldnt prove the dates. he paused before telling me that the oyster card was not valid without a receipt, and that he would let me off this time, but not next.

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:28 (twenty-one years ago)

he's got a point, you're supposed to keep the ticket style receipt that you get when you recharge it. (obviously I lost my first one and had this pointed out to me by a ticket inspector who let me off)

― chris (chris), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, but how the fuck are you supposed to have this if you buy it online?

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:34 (twenty-one years ago)

The train ticket inspectors seem woefully undercluedup about oyster cards. Requiring you to have a receipt for something bought online is completely unreasonable.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:38 (twenty-one years ago)

carry round a printout of the purchase screen? ;o)

― chris (chris), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Well you can't really blame them if it's in the rules somewhere. Is it, or not?

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't have a printer!

(I don't have an oyster card either, but hey)

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I am 99% sure it isn't in the rules. Even if it is it wouldn't stand up if it was challenged.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:42 (twenty-one years ago)

There's one station that Boyler and I passed through on the way home from a City FAP that you actually have to pay to WALK THROUGH. I think it might be from Southwark to Waterloo East now I comes to think of it. It had a drunken Dave sptting venom and blaming Thatcher, obviously.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:46 (twenty-one years ago)

"when buying certain rail tickets, including discounted tickets (where applicabale) tou will need to present your record card [the receipt thing] Oyster card and photocard for inspection"

Mind you on the Oyster information thing it says that if yr oyster doesn't work or if there's no reader then you show the oyster and the photocard

― chris (chris), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, that's only when you are buying eg a ticket to Maidenhead from Paddington, which is cheaper if you already have a Z1234 travelcard.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Even if you buy online you get sent a receipt card thingy with the Oyster innit. It also functions as a Gold Card for discounts (25% off for up to 4 people travelling together?) on overground train travel in the South East.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Only when you get the oyster card, not when you renew the ticket. And the gold card only applies for annual tickets.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 15 April 2004 10:00 (twenty-one years ago)

yea, ive never been sent anything when i renew. i was unaware you were to keep the original receipt, (which was sent to my official address anyway, which is non-london). if you had an oystercard for 5 years, are you supposed to keep a flimsy tatty 5 year old piece of paper with you for 5 years also?

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 15 April 2004 10:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Its not unreasonable if those are the rules agreed on the conditions of carriage (which are significantly different on the train). I had a bus conductor with a reader the other day.

Also Oyster Pre-Pay does not work on buses yet. It will beep, but nothing will happen and an inspector can bitch-slap you upside yo head. Or fine you. Or let you off because you weren't to know.

I still like the idea of the Oyster card penalising you for doing stupid tube journeys that would have been quicker to walk.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 15 April 2004 10:02 (twenty-one years ago)

re. the pre-pay on buses, (and I've realised I mean routemasters, as all driver-only buses seem to have readers unless the conductor has a reader then people can flash their oyster cards, and unless the conductor asks to see their receipt, then they get away scot free. Same with people using out of date oystercards.

I know you could get caught by a ticket inspector, but we were on a bus with one the other day, and it takes so much longer for them to check tickets, that unless you're incredibly unlucky and are one of the first people to get checked, it's easy enough to get off the bus cos there's no way they can keep everyone from getting off the bus without checking the tickets, like they used to do.

my oystercard has an aversion to some of the ticket readers on the 123s, and all the driver does is print off the readout, and tell me to call the number on it as soon as possible, which is ridiculous as I just get off at blackhorse rd, and use the card to get through the barrier no problem.

― Vicky (Vicky), Thursday, 15 April 2004 10:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I've got a Thames Trains Network Railcard.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 15 April 2004 10:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I went to the end of the DLR at Beckton on Monday for no reason. My life is a little on the empty side.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 15 April 2004 10:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I've been on a few 73's where drivers have readers now. Being phased in. Pre-Pay will start working on buses soonish, problem is they often give you the green bleep but it hasn't really worked.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 15 April 2004 10:33 (twenty-one years ago)

It's like with girls.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 15 April 2004 10:35 (twenty-one years ago)

But Pete, drivers having readers isn't much use!! (not for routemasters, anyway)

― Vicky (Vicky), Thursday, 15 April 2004 10:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Gives them something to play with when they are stuck at bus stops/traffic lights. Sometimes they let the conductors on their bises use them too.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 15 April 2004 10:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Oyster cards lose their merits significantly if you're bussing it - it's quicker for me to renew my monthly bus pass and flash it at the driver on boarding. They work better with train gates naturally although I developed this fear of the gates closing in on my nether-regions because I tapped the reader too early or late after the last person.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 15 April 2004 11:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I wonder if anyone has considered getting a bus into Central London. When there was engineering work on the Picc Line we had to take a 'railway replacement' bus service and there was zero traffic and we got there in less time than normal. Depending on the time of day bus transport could be an option.

― Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Thursday, 15 April 2004 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh and a nice oyster thread that may be worth reviving judging by this thread: oyster card

― Japanese Giraffe (Japanese Giraffe), Thursday, 15 April 2004 11:17 (twenty-one years ago)

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