If you stop using your brain, do you go stupid?

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I always figured if you learn something, you can't unlearn it, but I suppose the less you're used to learning the less you're able to. I really do feel like I'm finding it harder and harder to get thoughts into my head or to understand new concepts, yet before I used to be able to pick up on pretty much any subject.

Until very recently I was learning brand new things every single day in school, college and university. Then I graduated and found myself jobless and having to depend on jumping from temp job to temp job wiping down bars, building office blocks, sorting files, selling advertising space, moving boxes out of lorries, moving them back in again, entering data, hearing people moan on the phone, moaning at people on the phone, selling windows and getting moaned at even more on the phone etc...

And I find this shit really hard - I simply can't do it! Nothing they give me at my company should be beyond me - I work out quotes, chase people up on the phone, organise mailshots, fax shit around etc. This is something a sixteen year old girl could do with no real problems - yet here's me, English Language and Linguistics "extraordinaire", not knowing what the heck is going on half the time!

Then I feel bad because I should know what I'm doing as it's so easy compared to what I've had to do in the past. So yeh, anyway - I don't know if this is down to me not having had to flexed my cranial abs for the last two years or just because what I'm doing now is for the birds and my head just won't let me learn it.

Can anybody empathise with me here? Did you find yourself getting dumber when you left full-time education? Any methods to get back into the loop (like reading regularly etc)?

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 07:48 (twenty-one years ago)

well dog latin you may be interested to know that there is evidence that people who stay "mentally active" in old age also retain their alertness for longer. also, the brains of people who have suffered alzheimers show significant atrophy of the grey matter and shrunken/diminished dendrites. so there is in fact research to back up your theory!

i think you are probably right though and that many people would agree with you. same as in all areas of life, people just get a bit lazy. personally i cannot really empathise because i have avoided this problem by becoming a sort of perpetual university student. i'm in the middle of my 8th year of uni. that is pathetic isn't it, i'm embarrassed. can anyone empathise with me?

― gem (trisk), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 07:53 (twenty-one years ago)

see also my thread here:

/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?thread.php?msgid=3994863.

also useful, perhaps is:

/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?thread.php?msgid=4171082.

you can see I've devoted a lot of time to thinking about this!

― MarkH (MarkH), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 07:57 (twenty-one years ago)

it's not pathetic. what's pathetic is if you leave you'll probably end up getting a shitty office job and staring at the internet all day. i think i really have to start getting back into reading a lot more in my spare time and maybe studying stuff for fun, it's the only way. And Gem, you're right - I've never been the most alert person in the world but right now I feel as foggy as a doddery old man.

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 07:58 (twenty-one years ago)

oh don't worry, i have a shitty office job too, "writing policy" hahahahaaaaaaa. that's where i post to the internet from. not to worry, it's paying for all the letters i'll eventually have after my name ;)

studying stuff for fun is good too, i had a break from uni between degrees and did heaps of different stuff at TAFE (that's like an adult ed college if you're not australian) like computing and arty stuff and whatnot, i loved it and met tonnes of cool people too. i actually don't think i could ever "not" study something.

― gem (trisk), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Job skills aren't really learnable in the same way as theories/ideas etc though. It can be hard to pick them up precisely BECAUSE they don't use your brain in the same way that university does, but they're not necessarily inferior. Practical tasks depend on repetition and practice to be assimilated into your knowledge bank (ie in time you work out an efficient system for mailshots). Intellectual concepts don't really depend on you putting them into practice to be known, it's a reflexive thing.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, I've been there. A few things:

1) It's not "easy compared to what I've had to do in the past" - if it was easy, then you'd be fine doing it. It requires a different set of skills - ones which you have yet to learn. Just because it's more menial, doesn't make it any less difficult.

2) Seems to me that the brain is like any other muscle - stop using it, and it'll get less efficient. Reading helps. Not watching telly helps. If you have a desk, pin up a poem and memorise a new one every week - that helps. Keep your brain moving, otherwise it'll fade away. And I dunno about you, but knowing that one day my brain's gonna turn to mush is about the only thing about old age that I'm scared of.

Someone else expand please - I gotta get back to my "shitty office job".

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:02 (twenty-one years ago)

The good news is that if you find something challenging and work on it a few months you can pretty much get your brain back into shape!

After working in IT for 2 years I felt my brain going mushy so I started taking some classes. The first 2 months I felt like I had lost my brains - but it all came back and now I feel sharpish again.

― marianna, Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:02 (twenty-one years ago)

So... continuing with academic study or reading won't make you brainier in your *job*, but it might make you feel sharper, brighter and more fulfilled in general.

I recommend crosswords.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Archel OTM. Office skills aren't inferior, it's just that I've never had to have to remember names of clients etc, whereas my colleague knows exactly what everyone on the database is up to, because he's been using that part of his brain for 20 years.

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:06 (twenty-one years ago)

ok i should probably point out that i was by no means suggesting that office skills don't require grey matter. certainly not! it took me bloody ages to learn how to do business corro and the like. i'm a full bottle now though! the best of both worlds, office skills and uni! lucky me.

― gem (trisk), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:11 (twenty-one years ago)

how you have the time (not to mention the money) is beyond me gem - but good on ya for it, I'd love to be a perpetual student if I could.

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:15 (twenty-one years ago)

time? hahahahaaaa no i don't have any of that. money i have by working instead of having time. also in australia you defer your tuition fees until after you graduate, then pay it off as a % of your income (it comes out as tax and i don't even notice it), at least for the time being, otherwise i wouldn't be able to do it.

― gem (trisk), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:18 (twenty-one years ago)

without wanting to derail the subject already, nor pry into your lifestyle Gem, but do you have your tutorials at night? is your office job part-time?

Tuition fees are more or less the same here, they come out as an extra tax.

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm still a (part-time) student too, but doing a fairly vocational course. When a theoretical module cropped up this term I was shocked at how hard I found it - it's been 5 years since I graduated first time round, and there really is no way to keep your critical analytic muscles flexed in the meantime except by voluntarily writing essays, which obviously I hadn't done. Possibly posting to ILE helps, though.

Money - I have so much debt already that I wouldn't have been able to do this masters (no deferred fees/student loans for post-grads!) if it wasn't for the fee waiver scheme for university staff. As it is I find it hard to survive on my reduced salary although I still work over 30 hours a week :(

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Writing to ILE has been a godsend for me recently, along with starting a blog the other day. It's nice to be able to throw up a few thoughts onto a screen when need be.

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:39 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm down, dawg.
i swear i used to know shit about something.

― g-kit (g-kit), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I also worry about this. The worst case of this I saw was my friend Ron. He was super-brilliant in University - could write a paper on almost anything, conversations with him were obtuse, funny, interesting, challenging - the lot. Since then, though - he's gone stupid. Just talks shit about Pavement and monkeys and stuff. It's a damn shame. His case is extreme, but I'm sure this happens to a lot of people.

I would also like to point out the obvious fact that smoking large amounts of weed do NOT help this process in the slightest...

― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:42 (twenty-one years ago)

i work for the government, in a related field to what i'm studying so i get some study leave and can also use flexi-time to attend tuts. i also listen to taped lectures. so even though the classes are within work hours, it's still manageable. i don't have any spare time though.

― gem (trisk), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Just talks shit about Pavement and monkeys and stuff.

Shit, that's all I ever do too. Oh dear, maybe Pavement aren't the intellectual rock band I thought they were. Monkeys!

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you Ron?

― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes... no... I dunno!

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:50 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm ron! do you want some peanuts? the monkey didn't eat them all

― gem (trisk), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I need to sleep - why won't the monkeys let me sleep?

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Which leads to a more contentious subject - does smoking weed make you go stupid?

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 09:04 (twenty-one years ago)

No, but it makes you not care if you do.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 09:07 (twenty-one years ago)

er, smoking weed helps me go to sleep, and otherwise I don't, and then I go crazy and can't talk to other people. It may make me a bit stupider, I don't know, but I can deal with that.

This is a good question. I like what Johnney said above about different skillsets...sometimes I get afraid that I didn't really learn much past the age of 8, but I'm doing stuff in my job now that I never thought I'd be able to--namely, talk to people and be confrontational even!

If you have a desk, pin up a poem and memorise a new one every week - that helps.
I do like this though, it seems like I used to memorise stuff just for the hell of it when I was young and it was a nice habit.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 09:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm convinced weed was a contributing factor in Ron's (and to a lesser extent, my own) descent towards stupidity. However I think you can definitely still be sharp/smart/whatever as a pot-smoker as long as you continue to read, stay interested/aware of news, talk with/listen to people who you respect as being VERY sharp, etc. Obviously this goes for everyone, but maybe chronics need to work a little harder at it...

― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 09:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I do reckon weed dulls the mind a little... feels like it has for me. So does BOOZ.

I feel a lot dimmer as Ive got older... I need to start reading and playing Go and scrabble and triv again to give my brain a workout.

Im terrified of getting dementia.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 09:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Hell, I've had this too and I'm hardly old.

I lead a fairly cerebral working life, but as soon as I come home I often feel like a complete dullard. All I want to do is watch TV and curl up on the couch, which is something I never used to do. I think I went without TV for almost a year at one point.

I have 'home projects' and the like, but I have to really force myself to get stuff done most nights, to the point of staring blankly at the screen hoping I can do work through 'brayne powar'. Sadly, it is ineffectual (Although I can stare down anyone, you just try me).

Oh, and a side note, hi. I lurked before, but now I post.

― PlayfulPuppy, Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Hi, PP :D

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Weed DEFINITELY makes you stupider as well. I've noticed myself get significantly less able to retain and hold information after smoking. Doesn't stop me mind, but even so, it does have an effect. The effect seems to go after about a week though.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 10:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I totally, unequivocally recommend GETTING RID OF THE TELEVISION, incidentally.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 11:02 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.shockingelk.com/pictures/misc/moran.jpg

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 11:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I've stopped television altogether - it's the internet that's chewing on my lobes.

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I went back and looked at some old papers I had written in college recently (I graduated 7 years ago) and was totally blown away by how erudite they sounded. I was obviously in a different world of theory and context back then, but I was quite impressed with my 21-year old self. I would be nowhere near that level now if I had to write a critique on Clement Greenberg or someone. So to your question, yes, I think you do 'go stupid' in the sense that you fall out of habit of using your mind in a certain way. It doesn't mean however that you lose the ability to learn other skills (such as the office set talked about above).

A good way I've found to discipline myself so that I don't spend too much time on the interweb or in front of the TV has been to map out my time. For instance, I get home from work around 6:30, I relax until 7 (email etc), then I head downstairs to the coffee shop and read for an hour. Then it's dinner etc. It's a quick example but helps a lot.

― The Devil's Triad (calstars), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

i still find it hard to read things that aren't split up by line-breaks and date marks these days. honestly, ilx has acted like a brand new style of education for me. we ought to enrol students. we could have rockism studies, troll theory, hipster critique and a whole bunch of other subjects.

― dog latin (dog latin), Saturday, 11 March 2006 03:27 (twenty years ago)

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