Godfather III: C or D?

What I truly don't understand is the ridicule of Sofia Coppola. Apart from her last 'line,' I think she played the part of a young adult who lived a charmed life rather well. Winona Ryder wouldn't have done any better. The critics wouldn't have been as brutal if Sofia had a different father. Then again -- she wouldn't have had the role if it hadn't been for her father.

The rest of the movie is so absurd. I caught it late at night on the USA channel and Joe Montegna and Andy Garcia's enthusiasm for gangster movie cliches made me laugh loudly. Pacino is way more over-the-top than his comparitively naturalistic performaces in the 1st two.
The helicopter attack is a hight point. It's also funny in the beginning to discover that Michael Corleone has donated "100 million dollars" to the catholic church.

It differs very much from the first two movies in that each was representative of the period in which the stories are set; g3 is supposedly set in the late 70s and (aside from a snippet of Elvis Costello's "Miracle Man") there's virtually no evidence of the period.

That pretty succinctly sums it up. Though remember it was nominated for a Best Picture Oscar.

http://www.rosewoodheights.org/ts_files/JBoeheim.jpg

Franco Citti; Lucchesi/ Propaganda Due (P2); Cavalleria Rusticana; Neri; Mantegna as neo-Gotti and neo-Columbo; parade reference to II; THE ENTIRE FUCKING ENDING; the confession scene; Raf Vallone; Franc D'Ambrosio's real voice; Eli Wallach, you bastards!; John Savage; Johnny Fontaine; Scorsese's mother; "just when I thought I was out..."; the ear scene; the glasses scene; back to Corleone yet again...

Yes, it's not as good as the first two films, but when the first two are both near the top of the best films of all time, it's hard to recognize that the third one was indeed great...just not that great. Yes, it was still nominated for Best Picture, and it still is fucking entertaining - and has some of the best lines of the trilogy.

Do things get more ridiculous and implausible? Yes and no. I thought that the whole trilogy showed the gradual upward mobility of influence, wealth, and corruption of the whole family. From running some of New York and some key local politicians to having their fingers very deep in many disparate national interests and holding sway over senators, to finally dealing in international high-finance and being connected to government ministers and the Pope. And yet he loses more and more, drags the family into worse crimes, and finds that all this hard work and mobility only introduces him to yet more internal corruption - that the family can't possibly escape by this route, because to make things "legitimate" is only to change one corrupt role for another one. Michael does all he can to make good on his father's ambitions mentioned in their last scene together, but he discovers that the goal is not what it seemed. Did Vito know this and not care? Is that what distinguishes the two men in character?

Discuss!

taking sides: "my coat! my lucky coat!" vs "this pope has powerful enemies!"

(bang)
(ten-second pause)

"WAAAAAAAUUUAUAUAUAUAAAAAAA!!!! AUUUUUUAWAWAWAAAAAUGH!"

(cue theme from Godfather)

Intermezzo from Cavalleria Rusticana, which spins circles around the Godfather theme.

And then "Godfather In The Hood", starring Ice-T! And then "Godfather 3-D"! And then "Godfather Vs Rocky", featuring this closing dialogue:

Michael: "That's the public library, Rocky"

Rocky: "Yeah man, I've heard that they have some great books there."

haha EXACTLY

Don't forget his contribution to that New York Stories thing!

finally watching this for the first time. critical re-evaluation has been more kind to this one so I thought I'd get a fun but flawed movie, but my god this is trash.

the dialogue is awful, plot points sloppy, the 'new' characters one dimensional. keeping it on just to see how it ends but I figure i can multitask and watch it...

I hope this doesn't ever undergo reevaluation, because it's every bit as bad as its reputation. Mostly it's just bland and lifeless; only occasionally (a couple of Talia Shire's scenes, the hysterics outside the opera house) does it cross into Ed Wood territory. I'm glad some people upthread said some nice things about Sofia Coppola, because I've always believed she's the best reason to see the film; she has a couple of awful line readings, but mostly--well, mostly she's just young and pretty, which is what the role requires. Andy Garcia's good too. Pacino's an ordeal. For the first half of I, he's young and tremendously engaging; for the rest of I and into II, he gets quieter and quieter, and progressively more sinister; and in III, I have no idea what he's doing, and I don't think he does either. The list of badly missed characters in III starts with Duvall and is long.

It's not considered the best one...

"Dad, listen. Dad, you didn't.."
(bang)
(ten-second pause)

"WAAAAAAAUUUAUAUAUAUAAAAAAA!!!! AUUUUUUAWAWAWAAAAAUGH!"

(cue theme from Godfather)

― antexit (antexit), Saturday, June 19, 2004 8:34 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark

love this post

When the best performance of a movie is done by Talia Shire you are in shitsville population: no paddle.

Apparently I was possessed by the spirit of Robert Evans in 2004.

and in III, I have no idea what he's doing, and I don't think he does either.

yes, my whole problem with the film, how Pacino went from classy focused performance to wtf lol where are we going with this

The main problems I had--

-They retconned an assload of new characters with very little background or character development, so the impact of what happened was nullified. G2 in contrast did a much better job with retconning characters.

--Dialogue mostly "wtf" in the first half

--Ending played like a horror movie

--the diabetes thing was so tacked on

--Andy Garcia's character

--Joe Mantegna playing Joe Mantegna

Wasn't Mantegna called Joey ChaCha or Joey Ta-Tas or something?

ZaZa!

http://blog.emitations.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/joe-tata-b.jpg

I think if this wasn’t a godfather sequel and instead an unrelated standalone it would be more fairly regarded for the pulpy OTT fun gangster flick it often is, there’s a lot of great imagery and some good performances. Love the helicopter massacre, kind of amazed at how blatantly it was lifted for Star Trek Into Darkness tbh. Talia Shire is wild in this.

Where does mama Scorsese pop up?

she says hi to Andy Garcia in Little Italy (gives him street cred)

mostly it’s the hideous 90’s clothes & mustard-yellow/red/black color pallette that makes me recoil

plus when you watch them in quick succession the jump in acting style from 1974 slow burn Pacino to 1990 BIG CHOICES Pacino is kinda upsetting/depressing

Andy Garcia was never this hawt, before or since

I find michael to be a weirdly more likable character in this (to the character’s detriment); he’s just a sad mild dude trying to go straight, all the icy sociopathy from the end of G1 and all of G2 has evaporated.

he mellowed when he went gray

the Cardinal's aide appearing with the giant pitcher of orange juice was a lol

I think VG has it right--Pacino's decline as an actor is depressing.

(Independent of any changes in the character--just him as an actor.)

he came back nicely in both Donnie Brasco and Angels in America (although you never underplay Roy Cohn)

Those two, and I'd add Insomnia. (He was oddly effective in Paterno, too.)

I recently rewatched The Insider, imo a good later-period Pacino performance without too much crazy shouting

Glengarry Glen Ross and Carlito’s Way are pretty top notch. I rep for him in Heat, it’s just a Nicolas Cage-level fun role. Very interested to see him in the new Tarantino but moreso to join Scorsese’s old school MVPs in The Irishman.

Heat & Carlito’s Way no question

Gonna stretch me out in Fernandez funeral home on Hun and Ninth street. Always knew I'd make a stop there, but a lot later than a whole gang of people thought

Andy Garcia was never this hawt, before or since

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, July 2, 2019 10:38 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Wrong wrong wrong Mamma Mia 2

pacino can still bring it when he wants to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeLuQQH1OHA

this pope has powerful enemies!

Post-1990 Pacino worth preserving:

Glengarry Glen Rosss
Donnie Brasco
The Insider
Insomnia
Angels in America

there's a donnie brasco dvd supplement that mentions the real lefty never wore hats; as soon as pacino got to the costume department, his first instinct was "this is a hat role"

devil's advocate is the only good film

http://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/movies/2020/09/03/francis-ford-coppola-godfather-part-iii-returning-theaters-new-ending/5709762002/

Like a new ending will make much difference. (Histrionics from Pacino, as I recall--a silent scream, I think.) Will I see it? Sure.

I’ve still never seen it!

the only thing I still remember about it is how much I liked Sofia Coppola's non-performance

I've no doubt posted variations above, but it's so egregiously off in tone and overall level of performance--some people are okay; agree, SC is good--it's connected to the first two only in name and shared characters.

Look, just be happy that Puzo died so they didn't make Godfather Part IV with Leo DiCaprio, as was planned.
― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, June 20, 2004 12:52 AM (sixteen years ago)

i thought this was a joke, but according to wikipedia, it's true

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Godfather_(film_series)#Fourth_film

they can do what they like, it still will look like a 90’s nightmare of oversize suits and bad hair

and this, forever:

"Dad, listen. Dad, you didn't.."
(bang)
(ten-second pause)

"WAAAAAAAUUUAUAUAUAUAAAAAAA!!!! AUUUUUUAWAWAWAAAAAUGH!"

(cue theme from Godfather)

― antexit (antexit), Saturday, June 19, 2004 8:34 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's gonna be a cartoon ending

This does open up the possibility of a re-release in 2021, where they come up with a new beginning, and another one in 2022, when they fix the rest of the film.

The Corleones are now all anthropomorphic hippos

The film will be titled "Mario Puzo’s The Godfather, Coda: The Death of Michael Corleone."

Mario Puzo's The Godfather, Coda: The Death of Michael Corleone, the Ultimate Cut; remix: NCIS Miami:HD (1990-2020-197?)

lol

still all-time post

"Dad, listen. Dad, you didn't.."
(bang)
(ten-second pause)

"WAAAAAAAUUUAUAUAUAUAAAAAAA!!!! AUUUUUUAWAWAWAAAAAUGH!"

(cue theme from Godfather)

― antexit (antexit), Saturday, June 19, 2004 8:34 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Forgot all about this--opens tomorrow. As titles go, Mario Puzo's The Godfather, CODA: The Death of Michael Corleone is right up there with Greystoke: The Legend of Tarzan, Lord of the Apes. Also provides its own perfect anguished apology for anyone dumb enough to go see it, like me. I know I don't need to quote the line.

love that coppola never stops tinkering.

Francis Ford Coppola's Bram Stoker's Mario Puzo's Michael Corleone.

Mosca shot first

The only thing I really liked in this movie was being relieved at learning that Franco Citti's character wasn't involved in the death of Michael's wife in Part II. That's on account of my Pasolini fanhood.

I don't really understand why people love this whole series. The characters aren't that compelling to me and the direction is shades of brown in dark rooms.

Michael's wife didn't die in Part 2

I’m watching 3 for the first time via this latest Coda edition. Not as bad as people make it out to be. Sophia not terrible. Too much making out while making gnocchi though. Also, spotted Scorsese’s mom in a cameo, who also plays pesci’s mom in goodfellas

Too much making out while making gnocchi though.

The most original critique of this movie I've ever seen

Right, his wife died in the first film. So they kept me in suspense whether Citti's character was involved in her death for an entire film.

hey yknow what

this Coda was pretty good! it’s been long enough since i saw III that i enjoyed this rejiggered version more than I thought i would

& the new ending is better

i mean, it’s still clunky but time seems to have made me hate it less, or not at all

shrug

george hamilton is a fkn weird casting choice though. kinda pushes the whole thing into a tv movie every time he’s on camera

I did go and see it, but posted about it on Facebook, not here. Didn't change my opinion much on the couple of things I like about it and the many things don't. I actually found the new ending more unclear than the original as to whether or not Michael dies (and I don't think I found the original confusing at all--he does), if that was Coppola's priority in recutting it.

I mentioned a couple of time compressions that made me laugh:

1) Michael gives Kate his permission for Anthony to pursue a singing career, and then, when Kate visits Michael in the hospital, she says that Anthony will be debuting in his first opera over in Italy. It's not spelled out, but it felt like a few weeks had passed in the interim.

2) Michael's diabetic attack in the Vatican: he asks for something sweet, and a pitcher of orange juice and a candy bar emerge out of the shadows immediately. Maybe they kept such things on hand because of the diabetes, but there's no indication of that in the way that he voiced the request. It was more like there was a vending machine in the hallway.

I'm with VG, I was surprised how much I enjoyed this (or rather, didn't dislike it), having hated GF III

the ending works better for me imo because he is now suffered to live in the purgatory of his own making, having set up the destruction of his own family, and all of his seeking absolution & forgiveness rendered hollow & useless

v operatic!

Help me understand then. As I remember it, it was clear in the original that he dies; in the new one, then, he lives?

yes