Iraq schadenfreude

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Looking at Reuters just now there was a breaking story about a bombing and fire at the Sheraton within the Green Zone. I find when I read these stories I find myself thinking "oh good, it's all still all fucking up in Iraq, bad news for Bush." And during those extremely rare periods when there's no news of explosions etc. for a few days, I start to think: "shit, maybe it's all calming down, this is good news for Bush". Then I feel all guilty for hoping that it's going bad for the Iraqis when objectively, I of course want it to go well for them. But if all goes well, then it's good for the neocon madmen! Aaaargh! I wonder if anyone else guilt-trips themselves in this way?

― guilt tripper, Thursday, 7 October 2004 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I do too. But then I remember that I thought Bush was an evil bastard before going into Iraq. The argument against the Neocons shouldn't rely solely on the outcome in Iraq.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 15:40 (twenty-one years ago)

with bush it has to get worse before it gets better. for some reason the american people have this unbelieavable problem with listening to reason.

― still bevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 7 October 2004 15:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Often called religiion.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Right, because religion is solely an American concept. Dumbass.

― n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 7 October 2004 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Mrowr!!! Pffft! Pffft!

America is 80% church going. We are more religious than most other 'developped' nations and our domestic politics has been largely kidnapped from economic issues to social/religious issues: abortion, stem cell research, gay marriage, etc...

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Religion may not be an American concept, but its predominant role in politics is pretty American these days. In the UK, Blair's religiosity is an embarrassment rather than a strength. In France or Germany, who even knows what Chirac or Schroder's religious views are? It just isn't a consideration.

― Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Thursday, 7 October 2004 15:59 (twenty-one years ago)

our domestic politics has been largely kidnapped from economic issues to social/religious issues

Don't forget bullshit class issues. Never trust a man who drinks lattes, etc.

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

My point is that "religion = not listening to reason" is a typically condescending ILX take on religion. This may be a topic best taken to a new thread, as the original topic of this thread is a good one that should be discussed.

― n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I ask your pardon for my atheistic outburst and return us to our regularly scheduled broadcast...

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Religion is not the issue at all. Churches, maybe, and the organization of the fundie right on issues like abortion, but not "religion." "Religion" is the smokescreen to the smokescreen.

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm having a hard time believing america is 80% churchgoing - where's that stat from?

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

The America is 80% Churchgoing Foundation.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

n/a, you can't refute his claim by calling it typical ILX (condescending or not). the argument transcends whether one writes on this board or not. (xpost)

― lemin (lemin), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

how about : methods of thinking in politics should be FUBU, not supernatural handouts.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

lemin, read this entire thread and then get back to me ok thanx bye.

― n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Well -- when we say "religion" in this context, we almost certainly don't mean Judaism, right? Of course not. We mean stereotypical middle-American podunk Right-To-Life nonsense.

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

about the original question, I think the war was a mistake in the first place so strategically stressing out about the daily fluctuations of the misery that goes there is just "gotcha politics", superficial.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I have felt this way several times. Most of all, I want things to be okay for the people who live in Iraq, but part of me just has so much trouble accepting the possibility of the people responsible for the invasion / occupation will get away with and profit by doing something so horrifying. When Paul Wolfowitz was visiting Iraq some time ago and the place he was staying was bombed, I realized that it was all about the unlikeliness of such a thing happening; that people like Wolfowitz, Cheney, Feith, etc. will never have to experience even the most negligible sense of the kind of pain and fear they've helped force on thousands and thousands of people. It's just that way, though - even if the whole population of Iraq and three thousand American soldiers were tortured and killed, most of the people responsible would likely maintain comfortable lives, so it's ridiculous of me to feel that there's any justice in the fact that things are going so badly.

― Pangolino (ricki spaghetti), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:28 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost
I don't care enough to revive the other thread, or to even make some sort of case one way or the other. I just want to say, however, that it seems ironic to me that you're using what seems to me to be an "everything is relative" postmodernist viewpoint to defend the type of person who would revile you or perhaps think that you're crazy for having exactly that viewpoint. It kind of reminded me of that Onion headline "ACLU Defends Nazis' Right to Burn Down ACLU Bulding".

I dunno, this post is really off topic. I don't mean to pry or derail or whatever.

― lemin (lemin), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:41 (twenty-one years ago)

back to the topic of the thread, i feel the same guilt. and not only do i feel a sense of relief that things are still crap in iraq, i REALLY hope that osama bin laden remains on the loose until after the election.

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm even worse. I'm sick of the "Support our Troops" bs.

A few friends have even come out and said what I've been feeling. I think it's the changing nature of America's military - years ago, there were all kinds of people, including liberal democrats. The old ROTC programs at universities made sure that you had educated and politically aware folks in the army.

Now they seem like a bunch of Republican jocks, and the prison scandal only reinforced this. All the photos of guys in Oakley Blades... ugh. But earlier in the war we heard alot about them blasting Slayer on the way to battle, all that kind of stuff has really quieted down.

― andy, Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,1827401,00.html

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:24 (nineteen years ago)

haha wrong 'schadenfreude' thread.

perhaps.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:24 (nineteen years ago)

'He once said his obituary would note that he was "mediocre rock star who composed I Don't Like Mondays and who organised Live Aid and Live 8".'

Well? Right.

― DAVE's secret to fortu-Oh look! Shiny! (dave225.3), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:30 (nineteen years ago)

Perhaps Geldoff could play in Baghdad and clear the streets of insurgents.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Monday, 24 July 2006 12:33 (nineteen years ago)

ROFL

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Tuesday, 25 July 2006 02:43 (nineteen years ago)

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