Is independent American cinema dead?

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As I read more of this Biskind book, I realize it is essentially the story of the death of American independent cinema, at least the cinema of the 80s/early 90s that I grew up loving. I'm not really speaking about quality here, but more about some kind of (vaguely) countercultural movement, reflected as much in exhibition and distribution as in the films themselves.

What is there now? Vincent Gallo? Korine? David Gordon Green? I actually like all of these filmmakers to at least some degree and yet they all seem destined for failure or assimilation into whatever passes for a "mainstream" now.

Please feel free to call me a rockist/idealist old fart. I have not thought this out well and it's early and I reserve the right to change my mind and contradict myself. It's just something I'd like to talk about.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Why do I feel like I'm going to regret this thread? Or that nobody is going to answer it?

I wish amateurist weren't in Italy, even if he did just come on this thread to call me a fool.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Indie-film guilt.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

You are SO predictable.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I love you for it (I really did imagine you coming on to this thread just to say that, though).

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:16 (twenty-one years ago)

is that the book on miramax?

other than david gordon green I can't think of any "auteurist" types making films like those you're talking about that are getting any attention. EXCEPT for documentaries like Outfoxed. This is really probably the most interesting development in films that's happened in the past year, at least to me. Although not interesting enough for me to have seen it yet.

― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Documentaries are KILLING non-mainstream narrative film. DISCUSS.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Docs are cheap.

― Huk-L, Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)

yes it is dead, i am to blame. i couldn't afford film school so my masterpiece will go unknown

― kephm (kephm), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Pitch it to me, I'm in need of a materspiece.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:27 (twenty-one years ago)

a materspiece!

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:30 (twenty-one years ago)

i am having a hard time recalling my materspiece

― kephm (kephm), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Anything which comes down heavily on one side or other of our present-tense culture-war is bound to be a hit. All of the things at which american independent cinema worked so hard at being (quirky, clever, anarchic) have been embraced by mainstream cinema. I do think that deeply politicised movies are the the next wave of the underground.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you going to make them?

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:36 (twenty-one years ago)

And if so...please give me a job! Thanks.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Down and Dirty Pictures

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I do think that deeply politicised movies are the the next wave of the underground.

agreed, and after reading the NYT article on Bush's mindset, I have a troubling feeling that regardless of the outcome of the election, the next 20 years are going to be filled with a LOT of cultural friction between Christian fundamentalism and the secular state. Expect this to saturate every aspect of culture.

― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.hellhousemovie.com/

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

basically it centers around a single room apartment, the old piano within it, potato mysticism, incan sea goddesses, an abandoned hostess cupcake factory and the occupants of the room throughout a few years.
i get ideas for films from photos i take. i couldnt write a script to save my life

xpost

― kephm (kephm), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

you're allowed to laugh at me now

― kephm (kephm), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:45 (twenty-one years ago)

what is potato mysticism?

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha adam doesn't know what potato mysticism is!

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Wait a minute, what is potato mysticism?

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

how dan quayle worships

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:55 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, cluster of stars known as the (had to google the name )Pleiades, farmers /rain. that sort of thing. kind of a personal thing due to my peruvian/irish backround. sounds terribly cliche on paper/net

a few years back i shot a roll of film i took of angry christmas shoppers, people yelling at each other in happy christmas-y settings, tiny angry children in large dept stores, i would like to develop this into a short film.

― kephm (kephm), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

peruvian/irish!

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

peruvians wear better hats

― kephm (kephm), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 16:02 (twenty-one years ago)

If "The Brown Bunny" is any indication, yes, it is indeed dead.

― andy, Wednesday, 20 October 2004 16:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I missed it, Andy. Did you see it at The Parkway? How was...you know?

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 16:03 (twenty-one years ago)

peruvians wear better hats

I'm sick of those bumper stickers!

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

someome else spill their BAD FILM IDEAS please

― kephm (kephm), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

it's a party and this dude is totally lighting his smoke and then this really hot chick asks if she can borrow his lighter so he gives it to her and then she walks away with it and then she drops it and someone else picks it up and the camera is following it around the whole time and someone gets set on fire with it and they die and then outside a baby falls down a well and they use the lighter to see the baby and find the baby and the whole time the camera keeps following the lighter -- one take, ya know? -- and fire is this primal fucking thing, right, and here it is taking life and giving it and the whole time this really great music is just pounding, like fsol and skinny puppy and moby and shit and i think i'm gonna get kirsten dunst to show her titties the end.

― PLURRRRRRRRRRR (ystrickler), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 16:29 (twenty-one years ago)

baby down a well=opening weekend GOLD

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

PROJECT: GREENLIGHT PRESENTS Y@NC3Y $TR!CKL3R'S ETERNAL FLAME

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Cleary the soundtrack shd be some earthy Kottke / Fahey guitar abetted by some Tchad Blake / Mitchel Froomery. & the tit girl = the girl from The Dreamers. Or Sarah Polley.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 17:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Minimalist film making a comeback would be nice.

For a while.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Wednesday, 20 October 2004 17:06 (twenty-one years ago)

there used to be some website run by some b-list movie producer, where you could submit your high-concept pitch for a movie, and he would then take it to a studio to get it made. should your pitch be picked up, you would get $25,000. i think the only movie made via the site was bounce. in college my friends and i would submit about ten really awful ideas a day, none of which i can remember. but we came up with all of these ideas while we were really, really stoned, and we submitted so many that the service finally deactivated our account!! i want so badly to see those pitches we submitted.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread needs more Yanc3y pitches.

― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)

but its just slacker with a baby in a well, which is just the baby jessica story, which were both early 90's. so, we're back to the beginning im afraid

― kephm (kephm), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 18:37 (twenty-one years ago)

there never were any more great independent movies than there are now. they're mostly shit. just like the rest of film/music/print/whatever. it just seemed like a novel idea at the time.... a good question is whether or not it's important that whatever countercultural impulses that were there (or at least seemed to be there) have been co-opted by the mainstream. i personally have enjoyed a lot more films from the mini-majors than from true independent or true major outfits in the last five years or so. i think it's probably the best notion to get funding from people with deep pockets and surround yourself with people who are imaginative, confident and have integrity.
that being said, i think i have scored a job as a 2nd unit director on a film to be shot in nigeria in march. funding is locked, they're just working out stuff between distributors and production stuff. that'll be a mini-major thing so i'm sure i'll develop a healthy bias as the date nears.

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)

i hope your boating skills are up to date before then

― kephm (kephm), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

try as i might, i do not understand this. are there floods currently that i am aware of?

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

haha... err... unaware of, rather

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry for the confusion, i just recall your name from the "what do you look like thread" and remember a photo of you about to be thrown overboard by your friend.

have fun in nigeria

― kephm (kephm), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

haha! yeah. i was a little creeped out actually because i have notoriously awful boating skills... and i couldn't recall ever having mentioned it. thanks... i'm actually more or less scared shitless of nigeria. i don't like the idea of having to get vaccinated to go to a place.

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...

I'm caving and am buying Biskind's book. There wasn't anything particularly countercultural about indie films. The political content amounted to the desire to make films that Teh Man wouldn't fund with his dirty money. The aesthetic ranged from the middlebrow Wendery of Jarmusch to the middlebrow Godardery of Hartley. All the pissing and wailing about Miramax suggests that European film distributors are a kindly, philanthropic lot.

― Miles Finch, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

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