Question for ILX's Media Whores. Pt.II

I am no expert nor a heavily experienced journalist, but I did finish a BA in Journalism just this week. My biggest problem with the degree, and what I would look out for, is too many subjects which are just shoehorned in from other courses, and ultimately make your degree an arts degree which teaches you how to write and sub-edit news articles and radio/tv pieces.

The main benefit of study, for me anyway, was a chance to develop my style in a decent context. But that said it was probably a hindrance alot of the time too being busy at college.

I like (c) best , because of the placement.

But I am not a journalist, so I don't know.

i didn't take one myself - i landed a staff job two weeks before i was due to start on the [don't want to name it] postgrad course. (the tutor said: "well done, you've saved yourself a vast amount of cash.") i have, however, done some teaching on another course (which will also remain nameless) and ... believe me, these things are a joke.

that said: it's really your only option. i built up a shitload of experience while i was at university (student newspaper/the big issue in scotland/the scotsman) and i was well-known and well-regarded (ahem) enough to get two job offers shortly after finishing my undergrad degree. what you'll get from the course is the chance to make contacts, and contacts and ideas are the two things you need the most.

personally, i'd go for b) because it's the cheapest and quickest. the NCTJ stuff is a bit jizzy, but at least it gives you a half-decent grasp of the basics of news reporting. and, really, that's all you can hope to learn. i mean, from my point of view: you can teach basic news sense and structural skills, but style and flair and everything else a good magazine writer needs come later, with experience. similarly: you can't teach someone to be the next bob woodward. but you can instil some understanding of reporting, and everything else - feature-writing, subbing, you name it - stems from that.

a masters will hold absolutely fuck-all sway when it comes to a job. none whatsoever. most editors are very suspicious of poncy qualifications. they want to see experience and committment (and a willingness to work for buttons).

er, that's it for now. i need to get back to work. hope this is of some use. e-mail me (use the address in the other thread) if you want and i'll happily talk to you about this a bit more.

Completely, 100% OTM, and nobody knows this better than the people making hiring decisions at magazines and newspapers. Experience is everything, and alas, there is no way to get it other than to just go out and find the work. You need to scrape and scratch and kick down as many doors on your own as you possibly can. One good way to do this: take on the unappealing assignments that nobody else wants. Seek out the unglamorous, the routine, the seemingly banal, and find the worthwhile strands therein. Many a great story came from a determined reporter chasing down what seemed like a perfectly ordinary lead.

Getting sacked won't cost me any money as I'll be moving in with my parents and the print journalism course is full-time (4 days a week in the college, with 1 day on a newspaper). Plus the delights of doledom will mean about £30 a week and fees being paid for me. Any advice on how to get laid off from the civil service would be very welcome. I've been told to simply quit, get a temping job and then sign on once the temp contract runs out - could it be this simple?

But yeah the only thing I want from this course is the ability to say "I have an NCTJ diploma, hire me." And maybe to increase the speed I write at. I think I'll do the shortest course, the 18wks in print journalism. I didn't realise these post-grad courses were held in such little regard. I'll email you later Fiendish, thanks a lot for the help so far.

i worked for three months as an AO (as they were called back in 1993) in attendance allowance, pushing paper backwards and forwards. i wasn't even allowed to answer the telephone. even sitting playing battleships for three days with the guy next to me didn't get me sacked. nor did making my immediate superior's life a living hell (mostly by sabotaging his precious paperclip collection). good luck :)

avoid anything too academically focused - if the masters requires you to write an 8000 word dissertation on journalistic 'truth' its a waste of time.

and do shorthand. esp if you want to be a news reporter

shorthand, yes. mine is fucking abysmal self-taught nonsense, and it's the one thing i rather wish i could do properly. that said: i survived fine without it during my reporting/interviewing days (i'm now firmly ensconced in production), and indeed some of the best reporters i know couldn't pen a single word in shorthand if their lives depended on it.

still: it's fucking useful.

-- grimly fiendish (simonmai...), June 1st, 2005 3:13 PM. (grimlord) (later)

ha, they're still known as AOs. And I am one. Just spent three months acting up to EO (ie. doing nothing except shuffling papers, reading ILX, yawning) but now I'm back on overpayments. Which means furious fishwives from Birkenhead phoning up and screaming at me for 'stealing' £8.55 from their IS. Hence the urgent need to get out of here.

If you get sacked from a job are you allowed to claim benefits though? I need to find a corrupt Deep Throat who can tell me the underhand goings on and loopholes of the DWP.

god, accidentally lying about my status as a civil servant, heh.

i dunno about the sacking/benefit thing ... it probably calls for another thread!

Self-taught nonsense has its virtues. Other hacks can't crib from your stuff that way, for example.

Thanks for the advice from everyone so far. Unsurprisingly, the people at the NCTJ and the course tutors most certainly DON'T think the same way. But the people at the NCTJ and course tutors aren't in the same position as the people who I'll be begging for a job in 6 months so I know who I'm going to listen to.

and the NCTJ: well, my first job said "NCTJ qualification required". i didn't have one: i got the job anyway. don't get me wrong, it's useful ... but it is in no way mandatory. i was taken on without it, and i've given people jobs without it.

journalism really is about how good you are/what potential you have, not how many bits of paper you can wave around. it's journalism. it's about stories. it's not about fucking qualifications!

plus: 99% of legal awareness in journalism is about common sense. it doesn't take long to learn, and you're far better watching how such things are dealt with in a newsroom anyway.

The same is true of any job, more or less, yet against all odds the education sector continues to thrive.

this is a half-truth, i think. 'without exception'? it's a bit like saying all news journalists are actually propping up the current government.