Friends who aren't "actually" racist but like to say racist stuff "ironically" all the time around their white buddies (or minority friends they know and trust): C or D

But seriously. It's quite bothersome.

Assistant Engineer: Hey, (my friend's name), thanks for backing up those files last night.
My Friend: No problem, nigga, you know how we do!

DEAD SILENCE, as the two of them just stare, slack-jawed, at each other.

AE: Did you just...?
MF: I guess I just did... Sorry...

It was Never Spoken Of Again, but my friend learned his lesson pretty quickly.

More often than not, a throwaway joke (both ways) would be lighthearted or witty enough to make it "OK", but occasionally I did get to glimpse inside their deep-seated bigotry through their "sense of humour" (one guy kept going on DAILY about the white race being the superior race and how Asians should stop stealing their jobs... ironically... yeah, haha).

Also, I worked in a Vietnamese restaurant whose clientele was predominantly white and on a bad day, I've used the "is it because I'm Asian?" card on customers just so they can shut up and stew in their guilt. Yeah, not too cool, I know.

yeah, i guess it's because it's harder to know how to react. when a white person does it you can just roll your eyes or act annoyed and it's their fault if there is an awkward moment.

It was Never Spoken Of Again, but my friend learned his lesson pretty quickly.
OMG, I cringed through that. It sounds like a script from the office.

As to the question itself, CLASSIC when the joke is a play on something universal (eg. competitive mothers) and DUD when it isn't.

OTM.

The rule would be, don't do this. You never know how strongly your friend self-identifies as part of a particular ethnic group, and you never know what kind of offense will be taken. OTOH, there is a way to make fun of the stereotype more than the person. "Oh, I know how you micks like to drink," etc. It's not like the guy's going to get all uppity about being Irish and having a glass of whiskey in his hand. He knows I'm joking.

But you have to be reeeeeal careful. It's always a pretty abrasive joke. And the rule still is, don't do this.

(dumb joke about Jews goes here)
(offense is taken)
"Just joking!" (which could easily mean, "Oh come on, you know I think of you as white!")
"The fuck? Well, I think of myself as a Jew, and you can eat me."

Yeah, me too. But they have to start it, ya know? I think it's easy for white people to sometimes forget, even in those situations, that race jokes mean something completely different to non-white people. Something that is probably incomprehensible to white people. So I've been called a "cracker" jokingly, and "trailer trash" and all kinds of fun white stereotypes as the racial banter flew around. But of course I didn't get offended, nor would I. How could I? I'm a white male in America. I have never experienced racial prejudice, and I never will. And while jokes like that in any direction can serve as a kind of balm to the pain that comes with being a multi-racial country, that's not something I will ever understand the way that they do.

BTW: "nigger" is right out. Never never never.

You had me second-guessing myself for a minute there, but I meant "deep-seated" as in (ref: dictionary.com) deeply rooted; ingrained: deep-seated ideological differences.

Maybe I just interpret it as deep-seated because the racism in those cases seemed almost casual and flippant. It's like it was split into Racism (Big Issue) as learned in PSA and school, and "racism" which is all in good fun so it's OK.

by pointing out that he "looks like a coon". I'm not sure if he *is* being ironic, or if he just deserves a slap.

Jesus. He deserves a slap either way. Maybe a full-on ass kicking. Preferably from a coon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1955000/images/_1958496_king150.jpg

Or thinks like him.

Not that these are mitigating circumstances: he's just not that unusual round here.

Whenever he says something like that, the other people in the office *do* look shocked; and he seems to think that this validates him as an "office comedian", or something like that.

ALL of my friends from college did this, and at first it made me really uncomfortable. I think there's a way to do it well, though. I don't really mean the classic appropriation of slurs against one's own group, because I kind of think that, as much as that disarms epithets, it also re-affirms the divisions between races and sexes and whatever. But I do have friends whose ironically racist comments really do parody racist attitudes themselves. Still, these jokes are really offensive and can be quite hurtful, and a lot of their humor is just saying something so taboo. And, anyway, I'm not so sure that "just getting people to talk about it" is such a productive political maneuver. So I don't know?

There seems to be a certain pride in this sort of statement. Most whites never experience racial prejudice because they use their resources to avoid being in situations were they're in the minority. A white kid going to a majority black school (because of middle class white flight generally a poor white) is probably going to experience the phrase 'white boy' in a different way than you. This isn't to say that there's an equivalency between anit-white and other forms of racism just to say that your ability to remain so securely above the fray is partly a function of your class.

That's kinda bullshit.

There seems to be a certain pride in this sort of statement. Most whites never experience racial prejudice because they use their resources to avoid being in situations were they're in the minority.

Mostly it's because they're white, not because they're rich or whatever. To say it's a class issue alone is to deny that any such thing as racism exists, which is comforting but false. If you think that a white kid in a black school experiences anything even remotely as bad as a black kid in a white school, you're... well, you're probably white.

That's beyond OTM. Nabisco is one of the smartest people we have around here, and I hope you all know that.

You NEVER know? How close are these friends? I have definitely had conversations with Jewish/gay/Asian/etc friends about jokes and what's appropriate before. I like to think that my friends trust me enough to know I'm not racist/whatever and I trust them to tell me when I've crossed the line. If you can't be honest about it, then you're not really friends, you're just acquaintances. Also: what about "ironical" sexist jokes? "Shut up and make me a sandwich." This happens WAY more often.

Of course, there's also a huge part of me that, at the end of the day, says: Kill the humorless.

hahahaha

No, you're right. I was reacting more than making a point (again). But to go up earlier in the thread, it's all context.

Also, don't forget that Andrew is a) Australian; b) sarcastic.

sometimes these two things are barely separable

Wait for it....10.....9.....8....

It was a JOKE. "knickers" is a homonym. I'm embarrassed for the both of us.

That's Australian, innit?