Is anyone following the Tory leadership contest with any intensity?

I wonder how long before Liam Fox drops the Natalie Imbruglia anecdote to bring out the lad vote.

Just roll out Bonker Boris and be done with it. Even I'd go Tory for him.

Only if it's embossed into the tire-tracks of Gordon Brown's Range Rover.

Well, I'm just going on the minute or so I saw last night and he seemed vaguely normal on that.

"It's not just about having a young, vigorous, energetic leader - although come to think of it, it's not such a bad idea."

closely followed by that desperate "please laugh or I'm finished" look.

I want to hear more about why Davis is abnormal.

Politics : Next Conservative Leader
Bet Until : 17:00 08/10/2005

D Cameron 11/10
D Davis 5/4
K Clarke 9/2
L Fox 12/1
M Rifkind 66/1

there are plenty of ppl and institutions who can challenge the current govt w/out wishing for any kind of tory 'revival' or 'balance'

*sweeping generalisation, pls do not crucify me (this is an ILE politics thread, after all)

Howard 'will stand down'

so a run down on the candidates for the tory leadership:

4 years ago the tories voted in the plonker with no personality IDS who then got ousted by Howard, who will be next the leader?

Malcolm Rifkind - associated with the Tory 80s/90s - dour, dull and lacking charisma. No chance of winning the tory leadership election nevermind the general election.

Ken Clarke - too old, not serious enough, stoopid laughing giggle, would voters trust this tubby Tory who would be a 69 year old to run the country in 2009? NO - another 4 years time and the Tories would be back to square one, trying once again to change and pick a new leader.

David Davies - Slimey typical Tory, may appeal to Tory party activists, but no one else. Another Tory election failure waiting to be activated.

Liam Fox - the candidate most seem to know little about.

Seems to be a good communicator, age mid 40s - recognises the Tories need to recapture votes of people in their 30s/ 40s and present a more modern image but wants to retain traditional tory ideas. Probably would do a better job than William Hague [2001] but no better than Michael Howard [2005] - would lose to Gordon Brown in 2009 as Fox is a typical right wing Tory who can't reach the centre ground of voters. Anti EU, lower taxes, smaller state, very pro-capitalism - and he reckons he can fix British society ? Offers a back to basics agenda: families are the cornerstone to a future society message. Yet his political agenda would only benefit the already privileged !

Liam Fox's hustings talk in full:
http://digbig.com/4ewfr

David Cameron - probably the best hope of the Tories for clawing some of the centre-ground New Labour voters back to the Tories. A good communicator, offers a "One Nation" so called moderate Tory agenda that is not that disimilar to some of New Labour / Third Way politics i.e social issues mixed with Capitalism.

David Cameron's hustings talk in full:
http://digbig.com/4ewgm

But will the Tory party members be brave enough to vote someone under 40 to lead the party ?

will the next general election be fought by Gordon "New Labour [sic] Renewed" Brown vs David "Moderate, Modern One Nation Conservative" Cameron Vs Charles "Liberal Democrat" Kennedy

-- DJ Martian October 5th, 2005 5:29 PM

Fox is brainless - his biggest policy outing has been on abortion.

Davis is too right-wing, and would drift increasingly rightwards as leader. he's also hated by at least half the party from his time as chief whip under major so would mean more splits.

Clarke is too discredited over Europe and tobacco. i think the rumours that Labour fear him are a double bluff. he could be picked off easily at PMQ's - esp by Brown - over his past. he's also too fat as Catherine Bennett noted in the Grauniad today.

Rifkind's a nobody...

which leaves Cameron. He's substanceless, but the fact of his youth and his Blairite willingness to totally disengage from the past would at least force the party into some kind of metamorphosis. he's the only one that could push them into some kind of forceful opposition again, which we need for the sake of democracy. still wouldn't get near winning this election but young enough and could start enough of a purgative change programme to have real influence in the next administration. 2013's gonna be the next time tories have a serious chance but i reckon by then the lib dems might have overtaken them if they don't choose cameron now. i think if they do choose davis, they're absolutely kaput.

-- the bellefox

ex SAS turned Tory MP

aha -- thing is davis plays up to having been sas. point of fact, 30 years ago he did a few weekends as a territorial.

Given he's the only Tory I can bear to even look at...

Ken Clarke would be 69 in 2009, if the tories fluked a narrow victory would you want the country run by a tubby man nearly 70 !

Clarke comes across as laidback easy come-easy go - he hasn't the energy, dynamic nature, zest, urgency to lead this country.

He would be an utter disaster for Britain.

Ken Clarke is too laidback with his jokey-joley-bloke style, this is not an effective working style to lead this country.

But he doesn't have a prayer of being elected Tory leader anyway, so it's a moot point.

"Being leader of the country is not a casual 9-5 job, it requires total energy and constant dynamic action - international travel, multi-tasking, urgency, constant co-ordination, leadership, decision making etc. That's why I demand the total bodily protection that only Right Guard 24hr provides."

ABC - conceptual brand insight

With Brands Alba you need to differentiate ;-)

However your task tonight Alba is come up with a merged brand identity for OneNation Conservatism and New Labour Renewed. This is an assignment for the Liberal Democrats to take the piss out of two conservative moderate staid political parties.

Alba, I expect only the finest conceptual thinking & insight. Can you deliver?

I'm not sure about this clear red water argument. I think Labour are only likely to move to the left in the forseeable future if the LibDems start picking up too many votes from disaffected old Labour voters or some left-wing minority party miraculously starts gaining real support. And even then, probably not.

On the one hand, it would be interesting if a John McCain-like figure appeared in the Conservative Party, someone with actual integrity and fingers not in pies. On the other hand, they might get in, and I still don't actually want that :)

I have no actual evidence for the statement that the left wing has eroded, other than that being the side that hates war more.

xpost - how is it disgusting for the tories to elect a leader/opposition which is likely to precipitate a slight resurgence in parliamentary democracy. for all of george osborne being a tory boy twat, he gave brown more to think about at the dispatch box last night then he's had in longtime.

xpost.

he isn't more disgusting than blair -- level pegging maybe, but then cameron hasn't lied us into a war yet.

he isn't more disgusting than blair

The phrase, "damning with faint praise" comes irresistibly to mind

thing is, i think the prospect of a cameron govt is appreciably more disgusting than a 4th labour term, but i'm hoping that the prospect of it pushes labour in a slighly dif direction and means that a brown govt would actually 'improve' things. i'm hoping that this carves out a different space for him to manoeuvre into - shows him that a more socially liberal labour party is the way forward!

don't like blair, btw

crossposts

'Yesterday's events illustrate that one of the biggest differences between the two parties is that Labour intends, commendably, to go on spending to improve education, health and transport, albeit at a lower pace, while a Cameron-led Tory party would rein in public spending to below economic growth - which would have entailed a quite savage cutback this year. Labour's approach is likely to be more popular with the electorate.'

prospects of brown increasing quality and quantity of public spending to differentiate himself economically from conservative party which is trying to steal back central ground on social and criminal issues.

Nothing to fear here...

I was going to say earlier that lurking not very far beneath the surface of these born-again caring sharing Tories like Cameron and Alan Duncan(!) is something very nasty indeed

but isn't the case that in polls the publioc say they don't feel the benefit of all the increased spending on hospitals, wars, etc? i have a somewhat jaundiced view of the big health-spend and i really *don't* think that much of it went to the front line. labour also have a big problem in that council tax rises some insane sum year on year.

also the entire drift of labour education *policy*, never mind the money involved, is completely insane, segregationist, and wrong.

Thus speaks someone with a lifestyle likely to survive a Tory government with said lifestyle intact. Unlike a great many people with no such comfort, like say, public sector workers, drug addicts, the mentally ill, the homeless...

Dada OTM. Cameron has disgraced himself already by joining the Conservative Party.

those are all very different occurrences and cameron's liable to steer left of them all.

on the whole 'disgrace yourself by joining the conservative party' tip, i think there's a general misreading of history/the country and arrogance at work.

a lot of people support the conservative party still. those on the left should want a) a healthy parliamentary democracy b) a conservative party which challenges the government but moves itself (and hopefully its electorate) towards more central ground so that the terms of the political debate are most conducive to a progressive society.

it's entirely wrongheaded to think that ideological opposition from a principled, libertarian conservative party of the future wouldn't be beneficial to this country.

Oh opposition's fine, but he might win!

I believe he's already said he disagrees with what he wrote in the manifesto, so he's off to a good start with that honesty thing we forlornly look for in politicians (not to mention him saying that breaking the law is a "private matter that should be kept out of politics").

what type of person chooses to call themselves "conservative"?

they immediately lose any kind of interest for or chance of not disgusting me

they don't want to conserve anything I like

crossposts

-- Dave B (dave.boyl...), December 6th, 2005.

haha fuck you very much, you have *no* idea---but in what sense are puclic sector workers (i kind of am one ayway actually) under new labour comparable with drug addicts or the homeless (whose numbers don't seem to have appreciably decreased under new lab btw).

compassionate conservative has nothing to do with neo-conservatism so at least try and grasp the basics before you start smelling bullshit. i'm also unclear what you think cameron has bought? he hasn't bought anything yet; he's testing the waters. that much is obvious to pretty much everyone.

no one's saying that cameron's left wing. i was saying that he might try and revive a libertarian conservative tradition that goes back to edmund burke, which would improve the quality of many of the social and criminal debates in parliament.

as for this 'neo-con' stuff: HOW ARE YOUR DUDES DIFFERENT?

xpost

He might, but I'm guessing he won't

btw, i'm a anti-war, left-leaning, public-sector worker before you start throwing any specious ad hominem attacks at me.

Surely not even the government believe there are only 459 homeless people in the whole of England. There are probably more than that in Kings Cross alone.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4237626.stm

Ooh look! Cameron jumps high over the lowest of hurdles. He's grebt!

'My dudes' are different because there is a mobilise oppostition - far too quiet - to corporate conservatism at the heart of us. I'm not aware that the Tories have such a lobby as the TUC at their flank. If you think the CBI are likely to agitate for meaningful change and influence that change being made, I'd love to see the argument.

total straw men. not one person on this thread has suggested that they wanted the conservatives in and most, myself included, would agree that labour has 'done a hell of a lot to help people'. your inane ramblings simply suggest that you know very little about politics (wtf with the cbi? who's talking about the cbi and what kind of idiot would compare them with the unions?) and whoever your dudes are i really pity them.

your inane ramblings simply suggest that you know very little about politics

UR Tony Blair AICMFP

I'll be a post-socialist in post-capitalism etc

The Conservative Party has announced a U-turn on student finance and proposes to keep student tuition fees.

Previously it had promised to scrap all fees, including top-ups being introduced from this autumn in England.

On Monday party leader David Cameron told sixth formers that if universities were to be well funded, the money had to come from somewhere.

In another change Mr Cameron also said he believed there should be no limit on student numbers.

Tuition fees were introduced by Labour and are due to rise to a maximum of £3,000 a year in England - there are different arrangements for students in and from different parts of the UK.

At the last election, the Conservatives said they would scrap all tuition fees while retaining Labour's reintroduced grants for poorer students.

Instead they had said they would have bigger student loans at a commercial interest rate, rather than the effective zero rate that applies now.

Mr Cameron announced the change of heart in a speech to sixth formers at Chalvedon School and Sixth Form College in Basildon, Essex.

"On the issue of student fees, I'll say something that's probably a bit unpopular in the room," he said.

"I'm afraid I think we're going to have to keep student fees, and I'll tell you why.

"You want to go to universities that are well-funded, [with] good tutors, good facilities and I want as many people who think they're going to benefit from university to be able to go.

"If you want those things - and as you also know we've also got to keep taxes down in this country - the money's got to come from somewhere."

Worthwhile experience

He indicated that the details were still to be worked out, and there might be changes to the levels at which people began to pay.

Labour's proposal is that from this autumn, unlike now, no-one will have to pay for the fees in advance.

Instead the cost of them will be covered by a loan which becomes repayable once they have graduated and are earning at least £15,000.

Mr Cameron told the youngsters he thought university was a really worthwhile experience.

Previously the party had criticised Labour's target of having 50% of young people going into higher education by 2010.

Now, Mr Cameron has said there should be no limit on student numbers.