So, tell me; what do you do when the person with whom you hope to start a relationship is way out of your league?

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Okay, I went on a first date last night with what may actually be the perfect woman. Part of what makes her perfect is the fact that she arranged for the pair of us to attend a 100th Anniversary lecture on Special Relativity - 'cos I'm a bit of a science geek, you see - and then we repaired to a nearby bar to talk crap about books and cinema and life and general stupid stuff and drink loads of alcohol.

She's really clever, she's really funny, she's gorgeous (I mean absolutely stunning. She looks a bit like a curvier version of Halle berry. I didn't think actual, real-life people could be that physically attractive)...She's also a doctor. (Specialising in paediatrics...She looks after sick children, for fucks sake!). She also has a very sexy contralto voice with a southern US accent, as she's originally from Atlanta. She laughs at my jokes. She even smells nice.

I have no idea why this woman is still single. And less idea as to why she appears to find me, if not attractive, then interesting enough to put up with my company.

Any ideas on how to continue this with the minimum amount of self-loathing on my part?

― Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:36 (twenty years ago)

1. If she likes you, she's not out of your league.
2. ALWAYS REMEMBER #1.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

Your personal history of masturbation

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

Don't think, just do, dood.

― Jimmy Mod wants you to tighten the strings on your corset (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

Maybe you have a gigantic cok?

― Jimmy Mod wants you to tighten the strings on your corset (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:39 (twenty years ago)

Dan said it better than I could, so.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:39 (twenty years ago)

GIVE UP.

...what's her number, btw?

― giboyeux (skowly), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:39 (twenty years ago)

Pray.

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:39 (twenty years ago)

Just to make it today.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:40 (twenty years ago)

DAN OTM

― bingo (Chris V), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:40 (twenty years ago)

prey

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:40 (twenty years ago)

You still don't know her that well. Don't as yet assume that she is your perfect woman, and proceed to arrange a few fun dates to figure it out. If she is very attractive, she may be used to people falling for her quickly, without learning as much about her as they could, and you don't want that to be you.

Be confident -- in all likelihood she's just as excited to meet someone who shares her interests.

― Confounded (Confounded), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:41 (twenty years ago)

I have no idea why this woman is still single.

A) Because she's a doctor and has probably had limited time for relationships?
B) Because everyone reacts to her the same way you're reacting to her attention?

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:41 (twenty years ago)

Ally, since you're here, I had the weirdest dream about you this morning -- see ILX Dreams thread.

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:43 (twenty years ago)

(I'm kind of frightened by the idea of a curvier version of Halle Berry! Is she recursive?)

Ally OTM; she likes you, you like her, what's the issue here?

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:43 (twenty years ago)

Someone I know subscribes to the 5 per cent theory: The top 5 per cent of the gene pool will only consider going out with others in the top 5 per cent. The bottom 5 per cent can only manage to go out with the bottom 5 per cent. The other 90 per cent of the population are available to everyone else in that 90 per cent. But – very few in the top 5 per cent believe they are in that category. So – if this woman really is in the top 5 per cent, chances are she doesn't see you as being beneath her even if you think you are.

The reality is more likely that she likes you cos you're a likeable person and you've got no reason to think you're beneath her.

― beanz (beanz), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:44 (twenty years ago)

If the date seemed to go well, then she probably likes you.

You might be surprised - very intelligent women, even very attractive ones, sometimes complain that it's hard for them to find a guy who is on their level and who isn't threatened by their intelligence. If she likes books and special relativity and caring for sick children, then you being six four with rock hard abs may not be her first priority.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:46 (twenty years ago)

if she went on a date with you, she's obviously interested. she didn't abruptly have to leave but stayed with you for the entire evening, which obviously means she's... interested.

― nathalie, a bum like you (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:48 (twenty years ago)

"She's out of your league". !

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:49 (twenty years ago)

I really liked this one woman in college, even though I pretty much knew she was out of my league. So I married her as soon as I could, before she wised up. She finally figured it out but I'm all like "TOO LATE SUCKA, we got kids now, you're locked in!"

― The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:49 (twenty years ago)

masterful

― Jimmy Mod wants you to tighten the strings on your corset (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:51 (twenty years ago)

Gracias. It's all about the technique.

― The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:51 (twenty years ago)

For some reason I thought Sourpuss's post was Dan! And I was like WHEN WERE YOU GOING TO TELL ME YOU WERE HAVING A KID! Then I figured it out. I need coffee.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:53 (twenty years ago)

maybe you're less out her league than you suspect. maybe you're charming & good looking & smart & all things great. just enjoy it! and i'm going to third or fifth or whatever what dan said first. so very true.

― kelsey (kelstarry), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:54 (twenty years ago)

before she wised up

http://earthops.org/newdrug.gif

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:54 (twenty years ago)

That thread I linked to is great, actually.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:55 (twenty years ago)

Hey, Hurting, remember that time you were funny? Oh, neither do I.

― The Obligatory Bitchpuss (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:55 (twenty years ago)

Sorry.

― The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:56 (twenty years ago)

Another married dude here to say Dan OTM.

― k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:56 (twenty years ago)

I like to think that the reason I'm never in a relationship is that every woman I ever meet assumes I'm so hopelessly out of their league it's not worth bothering. It makes me feel better.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:57 (twenty years ago)

Note to self: find a lecture on Special Relativity and ask a girl to attend with me -- teh chixors LOVE that shit.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:57 (twenty years ago)

Hey, Hurting, remember that time you were funny? Oh, neither do I.

You must have taken the forget pill then.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

She finally figured it out but I'm all like "TOO LATE SUCKA, we got kids now, you're locked in!"

Matt: plz write me a one-act play in which this conversation actually takes place. Thx. You know my email address.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 14:59 (twenty years ago)

OMG I'm on it.

― The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:00 (twenty years ago)

Note to self: find a lecture on Special Relativity and ask a girl to attend with me -- teh chixors LOVE that shit.
Not quite. I believe it was she that asked him to go- BARRY, CAN'T YOU READ?

― k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:01 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, okay. It's a typical guy reaction thing to panic in the presence of stunningly beautiful women...

I obviously don't know her well enough to classify her as my perfect woman, it would be a bit foolish to do so. However, if someone were designed for me to be attracted to...they'd look awfully familiar.

Anyhow, as one of my oldest friends has noted, since I only ever start relationships with lunatics; the fact that I like her and she appears to be vaguely interested in me can only mean that something horrendous is about to happen.

We'll just have to see how this goes. She's on call for the next couple of weeks so we can't really do much, but she has invited me to a Halloween party she and her girlfriends are throwing.

It's kind of embarrassing. I'm in my mid-thirties, for cryin' out loud! I should really be much better at the relationship thing than this.

Or it may only be the patented ILX over-introspection meme kicking in.

ps The Special Relativity thing was something she suggested to me. It was all I could do to agree in a voice that less than amazed.

― Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:01 (twenty years ago)

There's a chapter in The Rules that says that it's only appropriate for a woman to ask a man to a lecture on special relativity.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:02 (twenty years ago)

We'll just have to see how this goes. She's on call for the next couple of weeks so we can't really do much, but she has invited me to a Halloween party she and her girlfriends are throwing.

she wants yr junk dood

― Jimmy Mod wants you to tighten the strings on your corset (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:02 (twenty years ago)

There's a chapter in The Rules that says that it's only appropriate for a woman to ask a man to a lecture on special relativity.

Oh, I remember this now, it's in the same section that says that it's only appropriate for a man to ask a woman to visit the local shoe museum.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:05 (twenty years ago)

i thought one girl was totally out of my league, but within 2 weeks, it went to omg i totally have a shout, and then finally omg i'm totally out of her league.

i don't know what the moral of the story is.

also i don't know if i did the "a out of b's league" thing the right way round.. what's the convention?

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:06 (twenty years ago)

If you've been on a date with her then she's not out of your league.

"out of your league" is what I now associate with those times in your life where you've fancied someone with whom there was absolutely zero chance of anything happening!

this doesn't mean they are superior or anything, but haven't we all been into someone with whom practically we had nothing in common?

in a way any unrequited crush is a bit like this, don't people actually often fancy people because of how different they can make you feel, as a person?

I mean I've always found it quite stupid when people are like "oh he's so........when he's with her, what a liar" (even though I'd abuse my friends raggedly for this just for a laugh) because you know, maybe the her in that scenario makes him really believe he is like that!!!

So I think this is about self-definition, alot.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:07 (twenty years ago)

and Stone Monkey it sounds like it is all going well, don't let your friends dictate to you or make it feel negative.

friends are the enemy of successful relationships, especially the longer you've been single.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:08 (twenty years ago)

The best thing to do in this situation is to go through an 80s screwball comedy-style transformation through a regimen of rigorous training and perhaps clothing and attitude consultations with a platonic female friend. But she's pretty cute too, underneath her tomboyish looks.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:09 (twenty years ago)

"out of your league" is what I now associate with those times in your life where you've fancied someone with whom there was absolutely zero chance of anything happening!

this doesn't mean they are superior or anything, but haven't we all been into someone with whom practically we had nothing in common?

yes, i guess it depends on what the leagues are.. you could be premierleauge while she is from the Bundesliga.

worst is when you feel like you're non-league :(

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:10 (twenty years ago)

she wants yr junk dood

Correction: she and all her friends want your junk!

xpost: 80s screwball comedy

WITH A MUSICAL MONTAGE

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:10 (twenty years ago)

Also, please recall the last girl that was really into you. No defeatism please.

― Confounded (Confounded), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:12 (twenty years ago)

ihttp://www.anticoemoderno.it/Antico/Vinile/ingrandimenti/Survivor%20Rocky%20III%20-%20Eye%20of%

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:12 (twenty years ago)

I give up.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:12 (twenty years ago)

Bad request. Bad, bad Ronan request.

― beanz (beanz), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:13 (twenty years ago)

Quick cuts: Monkey jogging/monkey wheezing/tomboy girl encouraging/Monkey trying to learn dance moves in mirror/monkey coming in and out of dept. store dressing room with different outfits/girl shaking head/Monkey tying headband on/Monkey breaking wooden blocks with hands/Monkey getting dance moves RIGHT in mirror...

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:14 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 45 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Pssh, at least the 'hurt' was more "I was with a prat like you?"

(Or is that too easy?)

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 07:16 (twenty years ago)

No, it was "I am not going to be seen with a mentally ill person like you when I can go out with an architect who earns in a week what you earn in a year."

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 07:32 (twenty years ago)

Jealous is not the same as envious, people.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 07:53 (twenty years ago)

Who said anything about "envious"?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 07:57 (twenty years ago)

I would like to revise my assessment of N. in the original post to the thread he linked to above

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:11 (twenty years ago)

having met him

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:11 (twenty years ago)

I wasn't actually talking to you there, Marcello.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:14 (twenty years ago)

We've just had a long chat, and ended up talking about all sorts of relationship stuff. I discovered that a) she thinks I'm good-looking* b) but that's irrelevant, because she only goes out with people whose personalities she likes. She turned down one specific chap because he's "geeky and boring", which describes me to a T. (although she also said "you wouldn't like him - you definitely wouldn't get on with him")

* Her: "I went out with this one bloke who was, well, *ugly*, but I liked him as a person"
Me: "What, uglier than me"
Her (with "WTF are you talking about" expression) "You're not ugly!"

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:32 (twenty years ago)

maybe you should have skipped the "what, uglier than me" bit.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:33 (twenty years ago)

If only you'd been in my office to jab me in the ribs when I was about to say it, Marcello.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:34 (twenty years ago)

I understand the reflex. I've done it too many times myself. I'm currently trying to teach myself not to keep doing it, 'cos after a while other people start believing your self-deprecation.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:36 (twenty years ago)

Or rather it's the self-deprecation itself that they find the ugliest, regardless of their opinion of your physical appearance.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:37 (twenty years ago)

'your' = anyone's

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:38 (twenty years ago)

Me: "What, uglier than me"

Pssh! Talk about fishing for compliments!

(Well done, played it just right)

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:40 (twenty years ago)

also:
(although she also said "you wouldn't like him - you definitely wouldn't get on with him")

Game over.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:41 (twenty years ago)

No, only the Robbie Williamses of this world could get away with that.

The last time I went through the "she's way out of my league" thought process was last night on the hopper bus going from Hammersmith Hospital to Charing Cross Hospital. There was this gorgeous woman on there - I mean, GORGEOUS - who from her conversation was also obviously smart, cool, hip, etc. I instinctively thought to myself: "well she's never going to be interested in a waster like me is she, and besides she's probably already got a boyfriend who's 7 ft 6 tall and earns £90 million a second in the City innit."

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:41 (twenty years ago)

http://assets.canongate.net/assets_canongate/dynamic/editionCoverZoom/1120473773081.jpeg

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:43 (twenty years ago)

Well, I'd agree about not overusing it, but hey, it worked here.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:43 (twenty years ago)

This thread makes me long for effective chemical castration. For me, mind you.

― Paranoid Spice (kate), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:45 (twenty years ago)

I read a piece about that Strauss book in the Times Magazine the other weekend. Few articles have been so successful and swift in inducing suicidal ideations in me.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:46 (twenty years ago)

I really want to read the book because the extract I saw (from another broadsheet SUnday mag a few weeks back) was just hilarious and disturbing in equal measure.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:46 (twenty years ago)

Game over.

In a "you've lost" sense, or a "you've won?" sense?

(he's her landlord, if that helps. She was telling me how he Tried It On when drunk at a party, years before she moved in to his house)

Funnily enough, we were also talking about how her best friend has made it into his late thirties without settling down, *because* he will only think about seeing people who are out of his league. (plus, he crushes on good-looking teenagers, which sounds a bit creepy)

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:47 (twenty years ago)

"Won" sense, naturally.

Hey, if she's comparing you favourably to people she doesn't like, that means she likes you. But you know that by now, right?

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:49 (twenty years ago)

I read a piece about that Strauss book in the Times Magazine the other weekend.

It's been PR-whored absolutely *everywhere* - there was a big piece in the Observer Magazine a few weeks ago too.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:50 (twenty years ago)

Apropos The Game: personally, if I were with someone and any of these chaps came in and "tried it" with her, they would rapidly learn the Carlin "Put You In Casualty In Five Seconds" routine.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:50 (twenty years ago)

'Lack of confidence' is like aftershave, a little is nice, too much will choke people.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:50 (twenty years ago)

I dunno, I reckon Strauss looks a bit handy.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:51 (twenty years ago)

xpost Now I'm intrigued! Is this book about 'moving into' or something?

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:52 (twenty years ago)

Strauss looks gay.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:52 (twenty years ago)

But so what? People have the self-given right to go and wreck other people's lives just because they're "handy"? What differentiates them from, say, the Bush administration? Otherwise we might as well just blow the fucking planet up and to hell with it, because this ain't progress.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:53 (twenty years ago)

You're thinking of Levi Strauss, different guy.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:56 (twenty years ago)

I'm thinking of Leo Strauss!

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 08:56 (twenty years ago)

Oh hang on, I was thinking of Leo McKern ("FIND THE MISSING LINK! When I have found it, I will refine it and tune it and you will play our game").

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 09:06 (twenty years ago)

For the Observer interview, he wore gold boots as a conversation starter. Gold boots! I, er, don't really go for people in gold boots.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 09:50 (twenty years ago)

Or rather it's the self-deprecation itself that they find the ugliest, regardless of their opinion of your physical appearance.
-- Sociah T Azzahole

Yes!

― Anna (Anna), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 10:00 (twenty years ago)

oh i dunno...amanda platell in gold boots...i could go for/under that...

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 10:01 (twenty years ago)

Andrew:

Jealous: Having to do with or arising from feelings of envy, apprehension, or bitterness: jealous thoughts.

― nathalie, a bum like you (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 10:05 (twenty years ago)

Why was the self depreciation thread locked?

― Paranoid Spice (kate), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 10:24 (twenty years ago)

Because someone spelled "deprecation" wrong. Those mods, they're really picky about speling nowadays.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 10:30 (twenty years ago)

No it's because it's been done and done. Threads on topics that have been covered extensively in the past are usually locked by moderators unless they're too busy with other stuff. Apologies for not pointing this out before locking but I did feel it was communicated sufficiently on account of the older thread being linked to on the newer one (mods often lock threads once the older thread has been linked to as that implies the reason).

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 12:30 (twenty years ago)

Er, no

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 12:50 (twenty years ago)

Gareth would be good on this thread.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 13:44 (twenty years ago)

Oh hell:

OED: Jealous. Adj. 1 envious of someone else's posessions, achievements, or advantages.

Right, that's it, I'm going to find Douglas Coupland and kick him in the bollocks.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 13:58 (twenty years ago)

Please take someone to video it, too.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 14:00 (twenty years ago)

Or rather it's the self-deprecation itself that they find the ugliest, regardless of their opinion of your physical appearance.

Hmm, this sounds like "when in doubt, be more confident!" which is absolutely true and absolutely useless.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

As long as people recognise it is true. My hope would be this would lead on to them managing to stop doing it, but I'm aware that recognising it as true would be just as likely to make them even more miserable about themselves as it would illustrate that they are making it worse by overdoing it.

But to call it useless sounds pessimistic of you Andrew, though you may be right.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 14:11 (twenty years ago)

I don't think I'm going to get the opportunity again today to ask her out. Bah.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 14:12 (twenty years ago)

You should do it...If only for the opportunity to acquire a host of other things to worry about.

― Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 15:08 (twenty years ago)

Sometimes those "ugly thoughts" are symptomatic of an ILLNESS and one could no more stop them than stop having horrible blotches when you've got measles.

True, maybe one should not express it, or take care when it is expressed.

Self Depreciation is one of those things where the most basic of English urges come into conflict. Hence, why it is acceptible to be self depreciating in a humourous way, because it follows the Do Not Boast/Be Eyeorish dictate. Yet when it is actually seen as an expression of one's true belief, it violates the "Imporance Of Not Being Earnest" dictate. This is why, I think, it makes the English doubly uncomfortable.

― Paranoid Spice (kate), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 15:12 (twenty years ago)

Hell, I'm English and I'm uncomfortable just reading about self-deprecation....Although that might be because everyone's better at than me...

Me: Hello, I'm really crap.
She: No you're not, you're lovely.

Six Months Later...

She: You're really crap.
Me: Told you so.

― Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 15:23 (twenty years ago)

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