the "true story" behind the amityville horror = 1974 but i'm not sure if the IBG actually featured before it became a somewhat retooled story
AH film = 1979 (poltergeist = 1982)
anyway wz it cultural coin b4 AH? and if so where?
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:19 (nineteen years ago)
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:21 (nineteen years ago)
― ryan (ryan), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:23 (nineteen years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:23 (nineteen years ago)
― ryan (ryan), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:25 (nineteen years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:25 (nineteen years ago)
actually manhattan island must have had a barrel-load of IBGs before it wz built up
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:29 (nineteen years ago)
kinda lost traction as the past century unspooled, though maybe, witness the fight over the tellico dam in east tennessee, the building of which would have (and eventually did) flooded cherokee burial grounds, but nobody particularly cared, so a serendipitously snorkeling biologist's discovery of a previously unknown species of fish in the little tennessee river (the "snail darter") became the lever for activism and the battle was waged in terms of the endangered species act, rather endangered human culture
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:36 (nineteen years ago)
even more interesting--what does it mean when the excluded other is a spirit/ghost rather than actual person?
― ryan (ryan), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:40 (nineteen years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:41 (nineteen years ago)
hence my interest
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:44 (nineteen years ago)
the malevolent ghost haunting gary gilmore's family since the 20s = an evil dead indian, acc.mikal gilmore's shot in the heart
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:47 (nineteen years ago)
― ryan (ryan), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:48 (nineteen years ago)
― ryan (ryan), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:50 (nineteen years ago)
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:53 (nineteen years ago)
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:53 (nineteen years ago)
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:54 (nineteen years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 10 December 2005 23:57 (nineteen years ago)
― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 11 December 2005 00:02 (nineteen years ago)
(warnin: don't try this at home foax)
― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 11 December 2005 00:04 (nineteen years ago)
haha in "a view from a hill" the guy digs about for unhallowed bones fallen from a long-gone gallows so he can boil em up to make BINOCULARS that SEE THROUGH TIME
I admit I love that story. :-)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 11 December 2005 00:05 (nineteen years ago)
― kingfish trampycakes (kingfish 2.0), Sunday, 11 December 2005 00:07 (nineteen years ago)
― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 11 December 2005 00:08 (nineteen years ago)
In spite of all the learn'd have said;I still my old opinion keep,The posture, that we give the dead,Points out the soul's eternal sleep.
Not so the ancients of these lands --The Indian, when from life releas'dAgain is seated with his friends,And shares gain the joyous feast.
His imag'd birds, and painted bowl,And ven'son, for a journey dress'd,Bespeak the nature of the soul,Activity, that knows no rest.
His bow, for action ready bent,And arrows, with a head of stone,Can only mean that life is spent,And not the finer essence gone.
Thou, stranger, that shalt come this way.No fraud upon the dead commit --Observe the swelling turf, and sayThey do not lie, but here they sit.
Here still lofty rock remains,On which the curious eye may trace,(Now wasted, half, by wearing rains)The fancies of a older race.
Here still an aged elm aspires,Beneath whose far -- projecting shade(And which the shepherd still admiresThe children of the forest play'd!
There oft a restless Indian queen(Pale Shebah, with her braided hair)And many a barbarous form is seenTo chide the man that lingers there.
By midnight moons, o'er moistening dews,In habit for the chase array'd,The hunter still the deer pursues,The hunter and the deer, a shade!
And long shall timorous fancy seeThe painted chief, and pointed spear,And reason's self shall bow the kneeTo shadows and delusions here.
― ryan (ryan), Sunday, 11 December 2005 00:08 (nineteen years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 11 December 2005 00:10 (nineteen years ago)
― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 11 December 2005 00:11 (nineteen years ago)
― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 11 December 2005 00:12 (nineteen years ago)
― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 11 December 2005 00:14 (nineteen years ago)
― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 11 December 2005 00:15 (nineteen years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 11 December 2005 00:57 (nineteen years ago)
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 11 December 2005 07:10 (nineteen years ago)
― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 11 December 2005 08:15 (nineteen years ago)
― Anvil Trellis, Sunday, 11 December 2005 08:56 (nineteen years ago)
― anthony easton (anthony), Sunday, 11 December 2005 08:57 (nineteen years ago)
― anthony easton (anthony), Sunday, 11 December 2005 08:59 (nineteen years ago)
― Ed (dali), Sunday, 11 December 2005 09:19 (nineteen years ago)
Well, there's "He".
(SPOILERS!!)
It's not about an indian burial ground per se - the protagonist of the story's walking around NYC, feeling miserable, and meets a like-minded 18th century buff. Same fellow then goes and shows him his TIME TRAVELLING ABILITIES, which he claims his family learned from a tribe of indians which had themselves gotten it from a mix of their own ancient rites and some dutchman's contributiton to same. His great-grandfather (or something) owned the grounds where they did their rituals and managed to get in on it in exchange for letting them stay there. HOWEVER, a week after he learned the stuff, all the indians died, from some poisoned booze that he gave 'em. Anyway, they do a bit of time travellin', first to the past then to the future (which - surprise! surprise! - consists of a wasteland of monstrous, unspeakable horrors.) Then the indian's ghosts show up and melt him into a black liquid substance.
Lovecraft didn't like New York much.
― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Sunday, 11 December 2005 12:06 (nineteen years ago)
I think he mentions weird Indian stone circles in a couple of stories, but there are no "OMG the house is built on an IBG!!!" moments in the stories.
I assume that the IBG thing is a retrospective guilt about exterminating the indians converted into a fear that they might somehow come from beyond the grave to reclaim what is rightfully theirs. I have read it suggested that old world fears of Trolls, Orcs, Elves etc. are the same kind of thing, only in our case the displacees are the Neanderthals.
― DV (dirtyvicar), Sunday, 11 December 2005 12:11 (nineteen years ago)
― RickyT (RickyT), Sunday, 11 December 2005 12:35 (nineteen years ago)
― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 11 December 2005 13:17 (nineteen years ago)
AH film = 1979(poltergeist = 1982)
Poltergeist did not have an IBG! The housing was built on a regular ol' cemetary.
The Shining, however, mentions an IBG!
― latebloomer: Deutsch Bag (latebloomer), Sunday, 11 December 2005 15:39 (nineteen years ago)
― latebloomer: Deutsch Bag (latebloomer), Sunday, 11 December 2005 15:40 (nineteen years ago)
― C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Sunday, 11 December 2005 19:07 (nineteen years ago)
― andy ---, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:22 (nineteen years ago)
uh, they are? you mean scandinavians or lapps are "one of the larger immigrant groups"? because there's no way the latter's true.
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:28 (nineteen years ago)
My greatgrandmother was a Sami and apparently cut quite a figure in her little Minnesota town... kids thought she was an Indian.
― andy --, Monday, 12 December 2005 20:36 (nineteen years ago)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/native_truth/message/86
It wasn't clear if any of the movies listed pre-date the 1975 "Amityville Horror" story.
― o. nate (onate), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:40 (nineteen years ago)
yeah, that's definitely true. never met a sami, so i was a bit confused by your initial post.
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:49 (nineteen years ago)
(also it claims that poltergeist IS an ibg) (which i thought it was but latebloomer says no)
― mark s (mark s), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:52 (nineteen years ago)
― o. nate (onate), Monday, 12 December 2005 20:59 (nineteen years ago)
http://www.worldofschmitt.com/writings/smith/seed_from_the_sepulchre.html
― o. nate (onate), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:09 (nineteen years ago)
http://info.detnews.com/history/story/index.cfm?id=167&category=life
It contains this possibly relevant excerpt:
In a 1956 News article, amateur archaeologist Clair Reynolds told of an elderly Indian who refused to guide him to one of the ancient mound sites, warning: "It is not good that you go to the place of the Yam-Ko-Desh." The Indian insisted that ghosts of the Yam-Ko-Desh, the Ottawa name for the mound builders meaning "the prairie people," still roamed the site.
― o. nate (onate), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:28 (nineteen years ago)