Porter Goss quits the CIA

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Hmm. The reverse coup is in effect.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 5 May 2006 16:52 (nineteen years ago)

We in the J Edgar are definitely at a loss.
What'd HE do?!?

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 5 May 2006 16:55 (nineteen years ago)

LOL Thomas to thread immediately.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 5 May 2006 16:55 (nineteen years ago)

FUCK YEAH

get the FUCK out.

....

let's see what toadie gets installed next.

xpost: he was balls-deep in MZM/Duke Cunningham hoze

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 5 May 2006 16:55 (nineteen years ago)

TOMBOT FOR CHIEF SPOOK!

Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 5 May 2006 16:56 (nineteen years ago)

2nd'd

gbx (skowly), Friday, 5 May 2006 17:07 (nineteen years ago)

Hookers at the Watergate.

Eazy (Eazy), Friday, 5 May 2006 17:08 (nineteen years ago)

x-post -- I keep seeing mentions to 'Hookergate,' did I miss a scandal du jour?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 5 May 2006 17:10 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/05/AR2006050500937.html

teeny (teeny), Friday, 5 May 2006 17:12 (nineteen years ago)

Hookergate:
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/000542.php
http://www.harpers.org/sb-red-lights-on-capitol-hill.html

erklie (erklie), Friday, 5 May 2006 17:21 (nineteen years ago)

wow

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 5 May 2006 17:29 (nineteen years ago)

http://home.gwu.edu/~tombot/CHAPIYM.JPG

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 5 May 2006 18:18 (nineteen years ago)

My theory:

He quit because his email address is linked from his Wikipedia article.

JW (ex machina), Friday, 5 May 2006 18:20 (nineteen years ago)

All that Nigerian spam, lemme tell ya.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 5 May 2006 18:22 (nineteen years ago)

wow, who'd have thought. TPM at some point mentioned one of the guys caught up in hookergate was a senior intel guy/former congressman. the CIA wasn't too thrilled about Goss being installed there, were they. perhaps the firing of Mary McCarthy was the final straw? gotcha!

dar1a g (daria g), Friday, 5 May 2006 19:25 (nineteen years ago)

Goss was responsible for the CIA purge of 2004, right? where they pressured all the dimmycrats to get out and made everybody else sign "loyalty oaths" to Dubya or some shit?

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 5 May 2006 19:26 (nineteen years ago)

That was Goss. His resignation is a mystery to me. He fit in so well with the rest of the administration.

Fluffy Bear (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Friday, 5 May 2006 19:57 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not surprised by his resignation, but I am surprised at the timing. I figured he would have stayed longer...

Last year, Goss was "uninvited" to NSC meetings and was replaced by Negroponte. Symbolically, this was a big deal - the head of the CIA NOT a part of the National Security Council? What the hell? This was around the time of Goss' "this job is hard!" complaint and given the Executive's demand for absolute loyalty and secrecy I wasn't terribly surprised by his marginalization - especially with Negroponte only too willing to shove him out the door.

Meanwhile, there is still the question of all the intelligence leaks which has now reached critical mass back in February. The leaks haven't exactly been plugged and I'm sure this is giving BushCo fits and Goss a periodic dressing down from the White House. Sandwiched between demanding superiors and an agency with zero morale, Goss took the logical decision - jump ship. Expect his book to be released in 2007.

Over at the CIA, the beatings will continue until morale improves.

LOL Thomas (Chris Barrus), Friday, 5 May 2006 23:23 (nineteen years ago)

Of course wilder theories are entirely possible. Goss is from Florida - maybe he took some Abraham payola?

LOL Thomas (Chris Barrus), Friday, 5 May 2006 23:24 (nineteen years ago)

ABRAMOFF

...sheesh

LOL Thomas (Chris Barrus), Friday, 5 May 2006 23:29 (nineteen years ago)

I heard he got sonned in a beef with Negroponte.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Friday, 5 May 2006 23:37 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.hookergate.gateshead.sch.uk/images/logo.gif

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 6 May 2006 12:40 (nineteen years ago)

david brooks (same initials as douche bag) tried to brush this off last night on PBS News Hour but I'm thinking it's got LEGS

and knows how to use em

m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 6 May 2006 12:58 (nineteen years ago)

Pfft.

Porter Goss has served in the role for less than two years, since he was given the job of reforming the agency after a series of intelligence failures.

On Saturday Mr Goss declined to comment on his departure, telling CNN that "it's one of those mysteries."

I don't think he could have chosen a worse description beyond saying, "Well, ever since I took over the pedophilia ring..."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 6 May 2006 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

Maybe I've been watching too much Lost, but Goss must have known that quote is guaranteed to get the opposition's fangs* even more firmly clamped onto the administration's throat.

*okay, toothless gums

pixel farmer (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 6 May 2006 14:54 (nineteen years ago)

Clearly your solution is to stop watching Lost. Oh wait...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 6 May 2006 15:02 (nineteen years ago)

Telling and predictable that the NY Times stories on this resignation are in fact, not about the resignation at all, but speculation about who the new guy will be and what his "challenges" are blah blah blah. I mean why bother with this "what happened and why" nonsense, really.

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 6 May 2006 20:34 (nineteen years ago)

President George W. Bush stunned Washington on Friday by accepting the resignation of CIA Director Porter J. Goss, and Republican sources told TIME that the White House plans to name his replacement on Monday: Air Force General Michael V. Hayden, who as Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence has been a visible and aggressive defender of the administration's controversial eavesdropping program. His nomination is sure to reignite the battle over the program on Capitol Hill, where one House Democrat promises "a partisan food fight" during the confirmation process.

Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Saturday, 6 May 2006 21:00 (nineteen years ago)

Hayden being the guy who didn't actually know what the 4th amendment said, etc.

meet the new CIA boss, same as the old...

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Saturday, 6 May 2006 21:08 (nineteen years ago)

hayden is negroponte's boy from what i understand and he's far more than a "defender" of the eavesdropping thing, he was right in the middle of it from the very beginning

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 7 May 2006 00:20 (nineteen years ago)

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/images/smallworld.jpg
This is the group photograph of the Psi Upsilon fraternity from the 1960 Yale yearbook.

Also:
While director of the National Security Agency, Gen. Michael V. Hayden contracted the services of a top executive at the company at the center of the Cunningham bribery scandal, according to two former employees of the company.

Hayden, President Bush's pick to replace Porter Goss as head of the CIA, contracted with MZM Inc. for the services of Lt. Gen. James C. King, then a senior vice president of the company, the sources say. MZM was owned and operated by Mitchell Wade, who has admitted to bribing former Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham with $1.4 million in money and gifts. Wade has also reportedly told investigators he helped arrange for prostitutes to entertain the disgraced lawmaker, and he continues to cooperate with a federal inquiry into the matter.

Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Monday, 8 May 2006 14:50 (nineteen years ago)

NYDN says PFIAB pushed him on hookergate concern

meanwhile, I just saw on a tv screen that all of Goss' aides are resigning

gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 8 May 2006 15:16 (nineteen years ago)

Finally a scandal where using -gate isn't an abomination.

jergins (jergins), Monday, 8 May 2006 15:23 (nineteen years ago)

this guy is a dick

-+-+-+++- (ooo), Monday, 8 May 2006 15:25 (nineteen years ago)

Hayden's a fucked-up scumbag who doesn't deserve to wear the fucking uniform. DOES POSSE COMITATUS RING A BELL? ANYBODY HOME?

Interestingly enough, the director of intelligence @ FBI is Maureen Baginski, who used to be the Hayden's underboss of SIGINT operations (meaning all illegal tasking as well).

(I used to get e-mail from these people. Hayden drives (or did drive) a gray VW Passat. Baginski smokes a lot.)

You've really got to love/hate the life imitating bad conspiracy theories aspect to avowed criminals from the National Security Agency taking over the entire intelligence community as old guard CIA pros take their [bizarre, convoluted, but at least aimed in the proper direction] patriotic principles and migrate the fuck out of town.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 8 May 2006 15:29 (nineteen years ago)

i would like it explained in a 10 minute donald sutherland monologue

-+-+-+++- (ooo), Monday, 8 May 2006 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

Did it look at you? Did the fire look at you? It did. Whoa. Wow. Our worlds aren't that far apart after all, are they? So, whoever is doing this knows the animal well, doesn't he? He knows him real well, but he won't let him loose. He won't let him have any fun, so he does not love him. Now who doesn't love fire? And is around trychtichlorate all day long?

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Monday, 8 May 2006 15:31 (nineteen years ago)

i thank you

-+-+-+++- (ooo), Monday, 8 May 2006 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

so is this #3 CIA guy Kyle "Dusty" Foggo quitting or what?

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 8 May 2006 20:02 (nineteen years ago)

i do like this summation of what's going on w/ expected responses

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 8 May 2006 22:27 (nineteen years ago)

so is this #3 CIA guy Kyle "Dusty" Foggo quitting or what?

yes

gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 8 May 2006 22:31 (nineteen years ago)

army intel had an ally roffles zaybot on file, but all those files have been destroyed.

gear (gear), Monday, 8 May 2006 23:30 (nineteen years ago)


from gabbneb's link:

The source is close to a group of poker players who took part in a 1999 game arranged by Wilkes and attended by Foggo, Cunningham and a nine-fingered former CIA officer named Brant Bassett

!

jergins (jergins), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 05:49 (nineteen years ago)

a nine-fingered former CIA officer named Brant Bassett

when federal agencies really try to go for the Twin Peaks vibe, things get interesting

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 05:55 (nineteen years ago)

All hail DUSTY and NINE FINGERS! "When names like Dusty Foggo and Nine Fingers Bassett emerge from the morass, attention must be paid, and it must be paid, irregardless of party affiliation or specific poker and hooker strategy."

http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2006/05/dusty_and_nine_.html

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 May 2006 13:44 (nineteen years ago)

Ways in which my country resembles a poorly written dystopian screenplay.

Fluffy Bear (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Thursday, 11 May 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

Think Nine Fingers has the 6-3 combination?

erklie (erklie), Thursday, 11 May 2006 14:56 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.filmwise.com/contests/contest_09/image_09a.jpg

erklie (erklie), Thursday, 11 May 2006 14:57 (nineteen years ago)

Stratfor has its thoughts:

The Intelligence Problem
By George Friedman

Porter Goss has been fired as director of the CIA and is to be replaced by Gen. Michael Hayden -- who is now deputy to Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte and formerly was director of the National Security Agency (NSA). Viewed from beyond the Beltway -- and we are far outside the Beltway -- it appears that the Bush administration is reshuffling the usual intelligence insiders, and to a great extent, that is exactly what is happening. But there is more: White House Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten, having decided such matters as who the new press secretary should be, has turned to what is a very real problem for President George W. Bush: a vicious battle between the White House and the CIA.

The fight is simply about who bears the blame for Iraq. The White House and the Defense Department have consistently blamed the CIA for faulty intelligence on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and over the failure to predict and understand the insurgency in Iraq. The CIA has responded by leaking studies showing that its intelligence indeed was correct but was ignored by Bush and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. The truth, as usual, lies somewhere in the middle. There certainly were studies inside the CIA that were accurate on the subject -- but given the thousands of people working for the agency, someone had to be right. The question is not whether someone got it right, but what was transmitted to the White House in then-Director George Tenet's briefings. At this point, it really does not matter. There was a massive screw-up, with plenty of blame to go around.

Still, it is probably not good for the White House and the CIA to be in a vicious fight while a war is still going on. The firing of Goss, who was a political appointee brought in to bring the agency to heel, is clearly a concession to the CIA, where he and his aides were hated (that is not too strong a word.) Hayden at least is an old hand in the intelligence community, albeit it at the NSA and not the CIA. Whether this is an attempt to placate the agency in order to dam up its leaks to the press, or whether Bush is bringing in the big guns to crush agency resistance, is unclear. This could be a move by Rumsfeld to take CIA turf. But in many ways, these questions are simply what we call "Washington gas" -- meaning something that is of infinite fascination within Washington, D.C., but of no interest elsewhere and of little lasting significance anywhere.

The issue is not who heads the CIA or what its bureaucratic structure might be. The issue is, as it has been for decades, what it is that the CIA and the rest of the intelligence community are supposed to do and how they are supposed to do it. On the surface, the answer to that is clear: The job of the intelligence community, taken as a whole, is to warn the president of major threats or changes in the international system. At least that appears to be the mission, but the problem with that definition is that the intelligence community (or IC) has never been good at dealing with major surprises, threats and issues. Presidents have always accepted major failures on the part of the IC.

Consider. The IC failed to predict the North Korean invasion of South Korea. It failed to predict Chinese intervention there. It failed to predict the Israeli-British-French invasion of Suez in 1956. It failed to recognize that Castro was a communist until well after he took power. It failed to predict the Berlin Wall. It failed to predict or know that the Soviets had placed missiles in Cuba (a discovery that came with U-2 overflights by the Air Force). It failed to recognize the Sino-Soviet split until quite late. It failed to predict the tenacity of the North Vietnamese in the face of bombing, and their resilience in South Vietnam. The IC was very late in recognizing the fall of the shah of Iran. It was taken by surprise by the disintegration of communism in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union. It failed to predict the intentions of al Qaeda. And it failed in Iraq.

Historically, the American intelligence community has been superb when faced with clearly defined missions. It had the ability to penetrate foreign governments, to eavesdrop on highly secure conversations, to know the intentions of a particular foreign minister at a particular meeting. Given a clear mission, the IC performed admirably. Where it consistently failed was in the amorphous mission of telling the president what he did not know about something that was about to change everything. When the IC was told to do something specific, it did it well. When it was asked to tell the president what he needed to know -- a broad and vague brief -- it consistently fell down.

This is why the argument going on between the CIA and the White House/Defense Department misses the point. Bush well might have ignored or twisted intelligence on Iraq's WMD. But the failure over Iraq is not the exception, it is the rule. The CIA tends to get the big things wrong, while nailing the lesser things time and again. This is a persistent and not easily broken pattern, for which there are some fundamental causes.

The first is that the IC sees its task as keeping its customers -- the president and senior members of his administration -- happy. They have day-to-day requirements, such as being briefed for a meeting with a foreign leader. The bread-and-butter work of the IC is the briefing book, which tells a secretary of state what buttons to push at a ministerial meeting. Ninety-nine percent of the taskings that come to the IC concern these things. And the IC could get 99 percent of the task right; they know that this minister is on the take, or that that minister is in a terrible fight with a rival, or that some leader is dying. They do that over and over again -- that is their focus. They are rarely rewarded for the risky business of forecasting, and if they fail to forecast the invasion of South Korea, they can still point to the myriad useful things at which they did succeed.

When members of the IC say that no one sees the vital work they do, they are right. And they are encouraged to do this work by their customers. If they miss the fall of the Soviet Union, it is the bread-and-butter work that keeps them going. If the nuts and bolts of intelligence compete with the vital need of a government to be ready for the unexpected, the nuts and bolts must win every time. The reason is simple: the unexpected rarely happens, but meetings of the G-8 happen every year. The system is built for the routine. It is hard to build a system for the unexpected.

A second problem is size. The American intelligence community is much too big. It has way too many resources. It is awash in information that is not converted into intelligence that is delivered to its customers. Huge organizations will lose information in the shuffle. The bigger they are, the more they lose. Little Stratfor struggles to make sure that intelligence flowing from the field is matched to the right analyst and that analysts working on the same problem talk to each other, and it is tough. Doing it with tens of thousands of sources and intelligence officers, thousands of analysts and hundreds of briefers is a failure waiting to happen. All of the databases dreamt of by all of the information technology people in the IC cannot make up for total overload.

It can be argued that there is no alternative. The United States has global interests and thus must have global and massive resources. But the fact is that global interests are not well-served by a system that is too large to function efficiently. Whatever the need is, the reality is that managing the vast apparatus of the IC is overwhelmingly difficult, to the point of failure. Moreover, the management piece is so daunting that finding space to look for the unexpected -- and transmit that finding efficiently to the customer -- has been consistently impossible. The intelligence services of smaller countries sometimes do much better at the big things than massive intelligence services. The KGB was an example of intelligence paralysis due, among other things, to size.

A third issue is the cult of sourcing. There is a belief that a man on the ground is the most valuable asset there is. But that depends on where he is on the ground and who he is. A man on the ground can see hundreds of feet in any direction, assuming that there are no buildings in the way. It always amuses us to hear that so-and-so spent three years in some country -- implying expertise. We always wonder whether an Iranian spending three years in Washington, D.C., would be regarded as an expert around whom analysis could be built. Moreover, these three-year wonders frequently start doing freelance analysis, overriding analysts who have been studying a country for decades -- after all, they are "on the ground." But a blond American on the ground in the Philippines is fairly obvious, especially when he starts buying drinks for everyone, and the value of his "intelligence" is therefore suspect. Sourcing is vital; so are the questions of who, where and for how long.

The most significant weakness of the cult of sourcing is that the most important events -- like the Chinese intervention in Korea -- might be unreported, or -- like the fall of the shah -- might not be known to anyone. These things happened, but there was an intelligence collection failure in the first case; the second failure stemmed not from a collection problem, but from a purely analytic one. In any case, the lack of a source does not mean an event is not happening; it just means there is no source. There is no question but that sources are the foundation of intelligence -- but the heart of intelligence is the ability to infer when there is no source.

Another problem is the IC's obsession with security, compartmentalization and counterintelligence. The Soviet Union's prime mission was to penetrate the U.S. IC. Huge inefficiencies were, therefore, appropriately incurred in order to prevent penetration. The compartmentalization of sensitive information increases security, but it pyramids inefficiency. Al Qaeda is not engaged in penetrating the IC. It is dangerous in a different way than the Soviets were. Security and counterintelligence remain vital, but shifting the balance to take current realities into account also is vital. Intelligence work involves calculated risk. The current system not only keeps smart and interesting people out of jobs, but more important, it keeps them from access to the information they need to make the smart inferences that are so vital. That would seem to be too high a price to pay in the current threat environment. Information on China can be compartmentalized; information on the Muslim world could be treated differently.

The IC wants consistent messaging. They want to produce one product that speaks with a single coherent voice. The problem is that the world is much messier than that. Giving a president the benefit of the official CIA position on a matter is useful, but not as useful as allowing him to see the disputes, discomfort and doubts stemming from the different schools of thought. Those disagreements are sometimes treated as embarrassing by the IC -- but honest, public self-criticism builds confidence. Stratfor -- and we are not comparing our tiny outfit to the IC, with its massive responsibilities -- publishes an annual report card with our forecasts, specifying where we succeeded and failed. We may as well; our readers and clients know anyway.

This may not be what the president wants, of course, and Negroponte and Hayden will want to give him what he wants. But the head of an intelligence agency is like a doctor: He must give the patient what he needs and try to make it look like what the patient wants. In the end, it doesn’t matter what you do, as Porter Goss has just found out. Negroponte and Hayden will probably lose their jobs anyway -- through resigning or being sacked, or through Bush's second term ending. Even if they are lucky, their jobs won't last much more than two years. There is no percentage in hedging, when you think of it that way.

Perhaps the single greatest weakness of the IC is its can-do attitude. It cannot do everything that it is being asked to do -- and by trying, it cannot do the most important things that need to be done. It has had, as its mission, covering the world and predicting major events for the president. It has failed to do so on major issues since its founding, finding solace in substantial success on lesser issues. But it is possible that the bandwidth of the IC, already sucked up by massive management burdens, is completely burned up by the lesser issues. It may be that the briefing book to the president for his next meeting with the president of Paraguay or Botswana will be thinner, or he might just have to wing it. The republic will survive that. The focus must be on the things that count.

Rethinking why there is an intelligence community and how it does its job is the prerequisite for Hayden and Negroponte to be successful. We do not believe for a minute that they will do so. They don't have enough time in office, they have too many meetings to attend, they have too many divergent views to reconcile into a single coherent report. Above all, the CIA has to be prepared to battle the real enemy, which is the rest of the intelligence community -- from the Defense Intelligence Agency to the FBI. And, of course, the odd staffer at the White House.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 12 May 2006 01:46 (nineteen years ago)

One of the points they bring up reminds me of that book about Moe Berg, which mentioned that the post-war CIA was far more of a corporate/M.I.-complex thing than the more informal & underground (& dashing?) wartime OSS, and the newer intel folks had little use for the experienced OSS operatives.

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 12 May 2006 02:10 (nineteen years ago)

Weekly Standard dude chimes in with his thoughts -- bias obvious, but the title says it all: "The CIA 1--Bush 0"

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 13 May 2006 14:15 (nineteen years ago)

If the CIA is good at defined missions and bad at assessing threats for which no mission exists, why then did it fail in Iraq, where its mission was very clearly defined and limited: find evidence of biological, chemical or nuclear weapons and/or attempts to procure them? This does seem to be an exception, rather than another example of Friedman's rule.

Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 13 May 2006 18:33 (nineteen years ago)

Heh, the FBI searched Foggo's house Friday...

Mo Dowd's column yesterday says Goss' original choice for Foggo's job had to bow out cuz he shoplifted a package of bacon from a Langley supermarket.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 14 May 2006 06:03 (nineteen years ago)


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