He's unpopular, so Bush must really be a liberal, feminist, etc.

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"Conservativism never fails; it is only failed."

Anybody else notice this weird phenomena lately where rightwing commentators, freaking out over Dubya's tanking poll numbers, have now started going on about how Dubya(and Nixon) is actually a liberal since we all know conservativism obviously can't fail so spectacularly.

This goes from Bill Kristol @ the Weekly Standard going on about how the war was bungled terribly but neo-conservatisim is still valid, to Phyllis Schlafly posting screeds entitled Does Feminism Control The Bush Administration?

As others have noted, pointing out that Dubya is not a conservative has been around for at least 2 years(e.g. Pat Buchanan), but it seems a new wrinkle to actually accuse him of being one of those dirty Lib'ruls.

and there's more than a few examples of this

My question is, at what point does the grouping of Cult of Bush completely fracture with that of Conservativism Never Fails? Has it pretty much already happened? What happens when you have two massively authoritarian groups at odds of such narcissistic small differences?

Is this something like when Trotskyites(which many neo-cons apparently started as) or undergrad Marxists go on about how communism hasn't been disproven, since it's never been tried?

Also, will the public outpourings of cognitive dissonance get even more entertaining in the next 5+ months? I mean, we're already at this level, but I think we can do better.

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 18:12 (nineteen years ago)

Is this something like when Trotskyites (which many neo-cons apparently started as) or undergrad Marxists go on about how communism hasn't been disproven, since it's never been tried?

this is it exactly! (though non-leninist marxists have stronger arguments in their favor than non-bushist conservatives, but i digress.)

that, and the fact that in right-wing circles "liberal" is roughly equal to "douchebag" in normal everyday circles.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 18:22 (nineteen years ago)

Oh that wacky Fred Barnes.

PRESIDENT BUSH IS A CONSERVATIVE politician, not a conservative ideologue. This explains why Bush sometimes does things that aren't conservative. He does so to survive and, if all goes well, to prosper politically. Or he does so because he actually favors some nonconservative policy or position. Conservative politicians are never ideologically pure.

aka, "Please ignore that hagiography I put out a few months ago."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 18:26 (nineteen years ago)

oh yeah, as one of the links posted points out, this has gotten to the point where certain NRO douchebags are putting out books like this:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0385511841.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
Liberal Fascism : The Totalitarian Temptation from Mussolini to Hillary Clinton (Hardcover)

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 18:27 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

right, and weren't there other bits not so long ago from these same folks celebrating how the guy had taken more of an "activist" presidency?

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 18:29 (nineteen years ago)

Also, to his/their credit(sorta), at least a (very) few guys like Francis Fukuyama are coming out with books that basically say, "yeah, this whole neo-con thing was bullshit from the start."

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

Cato Institute:

http://www.cato-unbound.org/2006/05/08/david-boaz/where-there-is-no-vision-the-people-perish/

M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 19:29 (nineteen years ago)

Funniest part:

"Republicans used to accuse Democrats of setting up a nanny state, one that would regulate every nook and cranny of our lives. They took control of Congress in 1994 by declaring that Democrats had given us “government that is too big, too intrusive, and too easy with the public's money.” After 10 years in power, however, the Republicans have seen the Democrats’ intrusiveness and raised them.

So from the Republicans we get federal money for churches; and congressional investigations into textbook pricing, the college football bowl system, the firing of Terrell Owens, video games, the television rating system, you name it; and huge new fines for indecency on television; and crackdowns on medical marijuana and steroids and ephedra; and federal intervention in the sad case of Terri Schiavo; and the No Child Left Behind Act; and federal subsidies for marriage; and (for less favored constituencies) a constitutional amendment to override the marriage laws of the 50 states."

M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 19:30 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, haven't more folks from the Cato Inst. been abadoning ship lately?

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 19:31 (nineteen years ago)

abandoning, rather

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 19:31 (nineteen years ago)

Well they were always more crabby about him than most, but the rush is on. If even Frum's starting to have public doubts then something's up.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 19:33 (nineteen years ago)

Also, I'm curious at which point even the diehard pro-authoritarian "we must submit to Dear Leader"/Father-uber-alles folks begin to break away and just say fuck this

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 19:35 (nineteen years ago)

probably when its around the time to abandon/crucify the old father (ie hang Odin from the tree) and initiate/celebrate the new one (hooray Jesus/Osiris!)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 19:36 (nineteen years ago)

RedState and Hugh Hewitt are still firmly on board for now.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 19:36 (nineteen years ago)

oh yeah, and Today's Fun Charts:

http://www.thismodernworld.com/blog/Bush-Nixon3.jpg

http://www.thismodernworld.com/blog/Bush-Nixon4.jpg

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 19:37 (nineteen years ago)

not to quibble over another kind of mythos, but Odin wasn't crucified as a means of rejection, was he? i thought it was more out of an attempt for knowledge, and it wouldn't have gone from Odin -> Osiris...

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 19:40 (nineteen years ago)

oh yeah I'm totally mixin my mythos there - just gettin at the general "father is the child of the man"/murder + resurrection narrative common to many religions

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 19:45 (nineteen years ago)

(cuz yeah it goes Osiris -> Horus)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 19:45 (nineteen years ago)

(sorry I was flippin thru the Golden Bough the other night)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 19:46 (nineteen years ago)

What interesting is that those two trend lines are broadly the same. I'd like to see Clinton and Reagan mapped up there too.

pleased to mitya (mitya), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 22:30 (nineteen years ago)

I think somebody actually did chart that. I don't remember the website, but somebody out there has graphed the respective appr/disappr ratings for all the modern presidents during their tenures.

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 22:32 (nineteen years ago)

Clinton was popular, so he must really be a Reaganist, conservative, etc.

DOQQUN (donut), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 22:33 (nineteen years ago)

The boring old political pendulum has *gasp* parallels shocker.

DOQQUN (donut), Tuesday, 9 May 2006 22:34 (nineteen years ago)

kingfish i'm guessing you're referring to charle's franklin's analysis? anyhow -

j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 02:35 (nineteen years ago)

oh not just that one, but one that actually tracks month-by-month approval ratings. I've seen it out there, i just forget where...

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 03:51 (nineteen years ago)

I've said this in another thread. The Left hates Bush and that isn't going to change anytime soon. His poll numbers are usually more correlated with how the Right thinks of him. If Bush isn't doing the "conservative" thing (according to whatever makes someone a conservative by their estimates) his numbers will take a huge hit and won't be balanced out by anyone on the Left embracing him as falls from grace with the Right. Of course what is the right-wing thing to do is never defined, really. So a lot of this talk is nonsense.

The whole "Left/Right" thing is inane as it's setup so that the "Right" is everything and anything that is currently not desirable to the Left. This includes but is not limited to: free-market libertarianism, monarchism, fascism, Nazism and some other statist movements. It doesn't go left to right but starts with the left-wing in the center of it all (surprise!) and you automatically become "right" the further you get from the left (no matter the direction that you travel).

Cunga (Cunga), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 04:35 (nineteen years ago)

Cunga, i'm not talking about why his poll numbers are down. I'm talking about the folks so clinging to their ideology that they not only abandon their once-heralded champion & daddy figure, but they now consign him as obviously being from the other side since there's no possible way their ideology could ever fail so dramatically.

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 04:42 (nineteen years ago)

The whole "Left/Right" thing is inane as it's setup so that the "Right" is everything and anything that is currently not desirable to the Left. This includes but is not limited to: free-market libertarianism, monarchism, fascism, Nazism and some other statist movements. It doesn't go left to right but starts with the left-wing in the center of it all (surprise!) and you automatically become "right" the further you get from the left (no matter the direction that you travel).

the same thing could be reveresed for the Right.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 04:46 (nineteen years ago)

The whole "Left/Right" thing is inane as it's setup so that the "Left" is everything and anything that is currently not desirable to the Right. This includes but is not limited to: socialism, environmentalism, gay rights, Communism and some other statist movements. It doesn't go left to right but starts with the right-wing in the center of it all (surprise!) and you automatically become "left" the further you get from the right (no matter the direction that you travel).

latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 04:49 (nineteen years ago)

hmm. i did find this:

http://www.willisms.com/archives/presidentialapprovalgraph.gif

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 04:52 (nineteen years ago)

also, MysteryPollster covers much of this:

Nonetheless, the pattern is not uncommon. Partisan political blogs seem to shower attention on polls that show the most dramatic "good news" for their side, and tend to ignore polls showing possibly contradictory results.

which i agree with.

http://www.mysterypollster.com/photos/uncategorized/franklin_job_approval_05072006.jpg

And the post containing that midterm approval graph shown upthread

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 04:58 (nineteen years ago)

These charts make me want to manipulate audio data.

DOQQUN (donut), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 06:10 (nineteen years ago)

yikes, how'd truman get so unpopular?

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 07:06 (nineteen years ago)

Korean War.

Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 07:08 (nineteen years ago)

Cunga, i'm not talking about why his poll numbers are down. I'm talking about the folks so clinging to their ideology that they not only abandon their once-heralded champion & daddy figure, but they now consign him as obviously being from the other side since there's no possible way their ideology could ever fail so dramatically.

Well, that's the whole point of an ideology, really. It's sad but I would predict nothing less from any political group. I personally think the problem comes in that everyone thinks there's just two sides. (But there might arguably be just two sides. It probably just isn't "right/left" or "liberal/conservative" or whatever is being used)

Let's look at immigration briefly. The libertarian party's official position is to remove national borders and embrace illegal aliens 100%. Now libertarians are considered by many to be the epitome of "right-wing thinking." By not taking an agressive approach to securing our borders Bush is simultaneously causing discontent among the right-wing Republicans and going in the right-wing direction. He is could be accused of being both too liberal or too conservative on this issue. The problem is there is arguably no objectively "right-wing" position on this in the first place and so you're left with True Scotsman fallacies to decide too much of it. Bush's biggest problem is a general Republican problem, which is articulation.

Cunga (Cunga), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 07:41 (nineteen years ago)

Also, Truman's approval rating in 1946 was about 33%, the GOP took the house & senate that year, killing off any chance for american national healthcare for another 50+ years(as guys like Thom Hartmann posit).

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 13:05 (nineteen years ago)

plus taft-hartley

j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 13:08 (nineteen years ago)

yup

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 13:09 (nineteen years ago)

What the hell does "liberterian" mean anyway? I mean, in the context of American political thought. Are we talking about Lyndon LaRouche? Are we talking about Noam Chomsky?

What's the model for preserving or maximizing liberty?

In my practical experience, it usually means "I hate taxes, but not gays".

OK, I'm being somewhat faceteous, here, but I don't think the Republicans are the only ones with an articulation problem, and I don't think articulation is the primary problem of the current Republican party. In fact, I think articulation is way down on the list.

But I do agree that our current left/right thinking is flawed in many ways. And what the hell does "centrist" mean?

Fluffy Bear (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 14:15 (nineteen years ago)

From the point of view of the rest of us, right-wing.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

The reason Republican ideology can't fail is because it's incoherant, vague and reactionary. It's hard to hit a moving target. The term "liberal", as used by most Republicans, seems to mean "other". "Conservative" means "us". "Libertarian" means "I hate taxes".

Fluffy Bear (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 14:46 (nineteen years ago)

and so you're left with True Scotsman fallacies

who is true scotsman? a blogger?

GOD PUNCH TO HAWKWIND (yournullfame), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 16:00 (nineteen years ago)

I can't find the link, but doesn't today's NYT poll have him about 31%?

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 16:10 (nineteen years ago)

Hmmmm.

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 12 May 2006 14:17 (nineteen years ago)

have we done Mel Gibson yet?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 12 May 2006 17:58 (nineteen years ago)

gibson-inspired-fear-mongering-bush.html

Dan (And ROFFLE) Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 12 May 2006 18:01 (nineteen years ago)

Actually the Corner is great today for the way that Derbyshire and Podhoretz are perfectly illustrating how immigration as an issue might (might, I emphasize) cause a political implosion on the right.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 12 May 2006 18:15 (nineteen years ago)

Also there's a rumor about that Bush on Monday will mutter something in a speech about the National Guard on the borders. Someone already wrote into the Corner with this response:

An army lt. colonel e-mails:

I just read on The Corner, discussion of The Drudge Report headline on the National Guard going to the border.

As the "details" have not been released, I can tell you what the details will be as this is taught in the military law phase of ROTC Cadet instruction.. This is Hurricane Katrina redux.

President Bush can not send National Guard Troops to the border for law enforcement. If the President federalizes the National Guard they no longer can perform law enforcement per the Posse Comitatus Act.
They would not be able to lawfully aprehend migrants under a Presidential mobilization.

National Guard Troops can only guard their respective States borders and apprehend migrants only when they are in their own respective State under the control of their respective Governor. This is an extremely small pool of soldiers in just four States. Also, the Guard is not a full time force. They are part time soldiers. An extended deployment on the border will cause many to transfer to the US Army Reserve.

Unfortunately, this is nothing but show.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 12 May 2006 18:16 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, my righty dad was yakking about this over christmas; talking about "how if a coupla mexicans got shot" it would slow down the flow across the border. He didn't take to my suggestion of "why don't we just mine it like the fuckin' DMZ" b/c it would cost time & manpower to go pick up the still-alive semi-mexican folks.

my question is, how much of the Natl Guard units to be stationed are latino?

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 12 May 2006 18:21 (nineteen years ago)

Border Patrol Station:

http://heathervescent.blogs.com/photos/gigsville2005/thunderdome.JPG

Fluffy Bear (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Friday, 12 May 2006 18:48 (nineteen years ago)

don't laugh, there was an AP newsbit yesterday about a guy perfecting a method of geting gasoline from pigshit.

I guess we'll find who'll rules Bartertown then.

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 12 May 2006 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

#
# In December 1981 additional laws were enacted clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies—including the Coast Guard—especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance) while generally prohibiting direct participation of Department of Defense personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews.

Maybe.

JW (ex machina), Friday, 12 May 2006 18:55 (nineteen years ago)

HOARD NOW, GET RICH LATER: noize board post-apocalyptic flea market

JW (ex machina), Friday, 12 May 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

hahahahaha I wonder how high the referral spike has been on wikipedia's Posse Comitatus article this week.

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Friday, 12 May 2006 19:04 (nineteen years ago)

that's about when Dubya started talking about using the natl guard to quarantine off areas due to the avian flu, right?

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 12 May 2006 19:11 (nineteen years ago)

"In America, there is one place where white supremacy and radical feminism existed: The Ku Klux Klan."

JW (ex machina), Friday, 12 May 2006 19:42 (nineteen years ago)

In America, Radical Feminism takes your medication!

Dude, David Usher is spooky.

Fluffy Bear (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Friday, 12 May 2006 20:50 (nineteen years ago)

(I'd just like to point out that you can make gasoline out of pretty much anything)

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 12 May 2006 21:03 (nineteen years ago)

In the early 1930’s, feminists left the Klan to pursue Marxist thinking, which arrived with thousands of unwanted European scholars who immigrated to the United States after WWI

JW (ex machina), Friday, 12 May 2006 21:05 (nineteen years ago)

dead bodies?
sloths?
orangutangs?

breakfast cereals?

xpost

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 12 May 2006 21:06 (nineteen years ago)

Weekend at Cheney's

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 12 May 2006 21:27 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, my righty dad was yakking about this over christmas; talking about "how if a coupla mexicans got shot" it would slow down the flow across the border.

-- kingfish doesn't live here anymore (jdsalmo...)

This, unfortunately, is a popular opinion. If you ever listen to AM talk radio, the people who call in make the right winger hosts sound reasonable. If someone started the You-Know-What-They-Oughta-Do- About-That?-Well-I'll-Tell-Ya Party they'd probably be our next President.

ramon fernandez (ramon fernandez), Saturday, 13 May 2006 00:33 (nineteen years ago)

apparently floating around in rightwing email circles, as reported here

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7710/90/1600/Neoconservatives2.jpg

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:02 (nineteen years ago)

Tho i'm sure that Richard Perle & Douglas Feyth(sp?) are upset at their absence from the list.

kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:07 (nineteen years ago)

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:lsQLUtFBq2vkvM:home.ec.rr.com/djacksonjr/acgreen.jpg
Still a Cunt. Story on page A-4.

dave's good arm (facsimile) (dave225.3), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 18:07 (nineteen years ago)

one month passes...
Similarly, Neo-conservativism never fails; it is only failed.

and Dubya is now Clintonian, since he's apparently not bombing and torturing enough. Feel free to decode Wm.Kristol's comments about how the "red lines" re: foreign policy are now "pink" and "mauve."

oh yeah, and the cover of the latest ish:

http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Images/Thumbnails/11-41.July17.Cover.small.jpg

kingfish cyclopean ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 11 July 2006 17:33 (nineteen years ago)


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