cosmetic surgery

UGH UGH UGH "fat grafting into the breast" - this just grosses me out so much. Am I going to have to read this every day now? Just makes me want to cross my arms over my chest and squirm. It sounds so icky

Wow, what is this? Is it the holy grail of removing body fat and putting it into boobies?

I don't understand why they don't leave women with built-in liposuctmachines to immediately scoop away any fat on their ass and immediately deposit it into the boob area. Like tubes and wires and channels. In fact, why don't we just rewire all womens brains into cosmetically perfect robot bodies? In fact, sod keeping the brains at all.

This is the most sick and insane industry I work in. Who comes UP with these things?

I need to get out of here before this crazy Fight Club world I work in starts seeming normal to me.

We have just had a meeting about this. Yes. They liposuct fat OUT OF yr ass and thighs, and then inject it into your breasts to make them bigger.

Seems much better than injecting sillicone in breasts tbh.

That said, I'd never contemplate stuffing something in my breasts.

Kate where do you work...? For awhile my wife was doing medical malpractice insurance and a lot of her companies' clients were plastic surgeons so she was constantly researching botched jobs and whatnot. loads of gruesome photos, ridiculous before/after claims, etc.

also hilarious/disturbing to learn what kind of doctors get into this business (podiatrists wanting to get coverage for doing botox injections, for ex.)

But the whole putting fat in boobies isn't a new practice. I mean, that procedure has been around for a while, hasn't it?

According to the card of every ENT I've been to (about 5) they're all "facial plastic surgeons". I am guessing that's where the real money is.

Also what nathalie said is OTM. While I would never get any plastic surgery myself, I think this sorta thing is a hell of a lot better than putting a foreign object in the body from a health perspective.

After seeing that horrid Katie Price/Jordan sextape, I can't understand why men can be obsessed with pumped up breasts. Ek. to *prance* around, that seems... sort of okay, but sex with a woman who has gigantic sillicone breasts? I honestly find it a turn off.

as a hetero male I find fake tittays distinctly UNsexy, but then I think a lot of times there's a lot more convoluted reasoning going into getting implants that goes beyond "men thinks its sexy". all this weird, internalized body (and aging) hatred stuff

I doubt most men find GIGANTIC tits actually appealing. I mean past a certain point it's just grotesque but I can see why they would be fascinating. Implants in general are pretty crappy but I think maybe some guys like them because somehow they imply something about the womans midset or sexuality (ie. that they're hypersexual or must "want it" etc.). I'm not saying that this is or should be the case just that I think it's more the msg that implants send out (or the msg that some ppl think they send out) rather than the implants themselves which actually "do it" for a lot of people.

"Appealing" in that first sentence should have been "asthetically pleasing".

yeah that seems right to me. what that message is varies tho (from "I am rich and vain" to "I am so insecure I mangled myself surgically in a misguided attempt to sexually appeal to emotionally stunted males")

Oh yeah it definitely varies.

But I think that in a lot of situations the end result is the same.

= fake tits

the weirdest thing to me is hearing the women on various plastic surgery TV shows always talking about how they're getting the procedure done for THEM, not for some man, but to boost their self-esteem because they've always hated their bodies or whatever... as if its too complicated for them to investigate why actually getting implants would make them feel better about themselves, and what they're basing their self-esteem on.

To be completely honest, the only plastic surgery I've ever even contemplated for a split second was a boob job but that was mainly because I got it in my head years ago that I needed slighly bigger boos to balance out my hips etc. and would never actually do it becasue a) fake boobs suck and b) "elective" and "surgery" are not two words I generally think belong together.

I also have to admit that unless you're mangled or had reconstructive surgery after a mastectomy or were born horribly disfigured or MAYBE (but this one is stretching it for other reasons) you got fake tits for strategic money earning/empowerment purposes - if you're a lady and I meet you and find out you have fake boobs then yes, I will think less of you for doing so. I sorta hate that I feel that way but I do.

x-post One of the weirdest things I've ever seen on TV was when the receptionist at some Bev Hills plastic surgery office had her labia reconstructed for free by her boss who then inspected his work by lifting up her skirt and proclaiming her lips "perfect". It was so unbelievably creepy.

I know various women who have had breast reduction surgery and always thought that was kinda ironic given our culture but it made total sense from the POV of their personal health and comfort. but yeah if you have fake tits/botox/tattooed eyeliner I'm gonna kinda think you're an idiot on some level.

Women who get breast reductions usually do so because of serious back problems. At least the ones I know have.

Many insurance companies will cover implants for "psychological" reasons but will not cover reductions even when serious back problems are experienced. So fucked. I have a friend who has been waiting for years to have one but hasn't been able to afford it and no insurance she's ever carried will cover it.

I think it's easy to say "don't you get it??? your self-esteem problems are due to all kinds of social factors and it if you really objectively analyze the situation, it's absurd that you'd let yourself down like that." but there are really few people who are psychologically capable of being comfortable w/ every single aspect of their body. I don't think this is just due to 20th century media / surgical possibilities, either. plenty of girls wished there was a way they could have bigger breasts before plastic surgery existed. I don't think it's inconceivable that for a lot of people this is like, a psychological burden that, realistically, they wouldn't be able to resolve through reasoning, reading the right books, therapy, whatever.

I've always thought it hilariously ironic that the creator of the Barbie doll purposefully made Barbie er "well-endowed" in order to make young girls MORE comfortable with their breasts (because she herself had developed early and was very self-conscious about it)... oh lolz the unintended consequences...

x-post Yeah Iatee it's obviously a complicated issue and not as straightforward as I might have made it sound upthread.

Was thinking about it on the way home because I remembered an argument I had with some friends and RS last year where he said I was being hypocritical by thinking negatively of ppl who get implants because I dye my hair for similar reasons. I had recently admitted that I feel more attractive with lighter hair partly because I get significantly more attention (yes, predominantly male attention) when my hair is lighter. I was saying that it's normal to feel more attractive when others are noticeably more attracted to you and he was arguing that maybe other women get breast implants for similar reasons. Somehow the whole surgical factor and permanence of implants make them seem more extreme and therefore entirely different or maybe it's the fact that they're so overtly sexual. I don't know though. Maybe he's right and it's not that different at all.

well they're certainly different in terms of cost, permanence, and risks to your health. which are some pretty major factors. even if the motivation is the similar.

also hair doesn't have anything to do with mommy issues/breastfeeding and is not a gender-specific trait.

i have breast implants and i can say that i did not get them because men give me more attention and actually, a woman with small breasts that shows off her cleavage will get more attention from men than i would, only because im not showing them off with low cut shirts.

and for the record i got them cuz i haaaaated how i looked for many many years. Buy ya i know some of those "i am right and vain" ho-hos

right = rich

idk how that happened.

and why do you think you hated how you looked

well because of the media silly.

okay who's the sock puppet

"i am right and vain" ho-hos

by ho-hos do you mean people or boobs? I really can't tell in this context.

silence collier

i mean people

lollllllll.

hondurian pls tell us a little more about yr experience with breast implants. I am fairly certain that your input would be invaluable.

my experience as in the surgical procedure or living-with-boobs experience?

The latter.

well i got them because i had a breast deformality. Having to deal with that growing up pretty much sucked. buying bras was a joke, and getting undressed in front of anyone was probably the second most embarrassing thing right after explaining why they looked that way.

so having them now just feels really great. its sincerely the best feeling when you can actually say you feel sexy in your own skin, and mean it. There are women that get them and i believe dont really need them though, just to feel younger or please a guy i guess.

well my reputation as a jerk is secure, I guess

I said that having some sort of deformity makes the whole thing different altogether.

But I think that in a lot of situations the end result is the same.

― \(^o\) (/o^)/ (ENBB), Thursday, September 17, 2009 4:16 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

= fake tits

― existential eggs (Abbott), Thursday, September 17, 2009 4:17 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol

right down to "existential eggs"

good spot :D

any guys my dad's a plastic/reconstructive surgeon, and i grew up with boxes of fake boobs littering the back of my dad's truck (like pushing them aside when i got in the back seat), so maybe i'm a little biased, but: pretty much everyone's right, when it comes to boob jobs. i've met (as an adult) image-conscious wealthy women and seen, in clinic, teenaged car-crash survivors. imo opinions on cosmetic surgery are almost entirely rooted in having a problem with the kind of person that gets that sort of plastic surgery, you know?

like the first three posts of this thread are inscrutable to me, and i have never heard of this cutting edge boob procedure that heads the revive, but it seems that if you are in the practice of taking fat from places anyway, that it might be practical to just put it someplace else, if that other place was lacking. or if someone thought it was lacking. and if that someone was also the kind of person that was highly likely to desire both surgeries, even without the knowledge of this particular, new, cutting-edge procedure. there are enough rational people that could be patients, that it might be worthwhile to do a clinical trial, etc.

elective surgeries are, in a basic way, just procedures that aren't necessary to forestall imminent death or disability. how you want to breakdown "imminent" or "necessary" or "disability" is up to you. what they represent as an area of knowledge is valuable for loads of people for reasons aside from crude vanity ("i injured my face in a car accident"), but at the extreme they're weird and ugly. like, if a dude can be allowed to put bumps under his skin, and fork his tongue, and get tiger stripes, etc, then why can't i make my butt look a little more "normal?"

cf abortion, euthanasia, DNR, and every other medical right we might wish to retain

Sorry, I'm old fashioned and still think that there are *better* and more lasting ways to make people feel confident than surgery. You know?

― girls just wanna have mixtapes (Masonic Boom), Friday, September 18, 2009 1:40 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what's the better more lasting way to make some cleftie abomination feel decent about itself

imo you are the real monster kate... ur the real monster. ::sober expression of undeniable truthfulness::

http://i43.tinypic.com/dggkra.jpg

Quite frankly, unless you can provide me on stats regarding "adverse incidents" (from reactions to aneasthesia to MRSA infections to, erm, death) I don't think so.

oh man if i didn't have actual work to do (lol waht is an ekg), i'd be interested in looking into this. because, like, tattoos and piercings are in this weird area of practice that seems pretty tight with yr more simple surgical practices. debriding/suturing simple wounds isn't a whole lot more complex than intense salon bodywork, and i bet the risk/complication profiles are pretty similar.

but i need seven years of training to get a license to do the latter, and ??? training to get a license for the first two

do you need a license to surgically remove cankles ^_^

x-post Yeah one of my friends is a piercer and he uses surgical instruments to do some piercings. I have one in my ear that he did using the same tool as you would to do a biopsy on someone. I bet you're right about the risk/complications being similar.

USMLE = united states moderator licensing examination

lol

erica, my dad pierced my sister's ears, and those of like all of her friends! he had these little one-shot plastic jobs

Oh when I got my ears pierced as a kid it was def done in my prediatricians office. That's really weird to think about now. I wonder if they still do that.

uhhh pediatrician's

imo you are the real monster kate...

I keep imaging you dressed up as a Teletubby and with the voice of Daffy Duck.

erica, my dad pierced my sister's ears, and those of like all of her friends! he had these little one-shot plastic jobs

I had it done in a shop. We run a jewellery shop and we do have one of those "guns". Do I use it? Fuck no. I don't want to scar someone. And how do you really practice? You can't byt on a real person. So fuck that. Tons of people just walk in and ask for it. No questions asked. It baffles me.

(btw Evan - I just met this dude http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/faculty/howard-koh/ and he was completely awesome)

cool!

i need to meet some more epi/PH faculty here.

He's not at HSPH anymore though. He's now the Assistant Secretary for Health under Obama.

jim kim just became the pres of my alma mater, so that's pretty dope imo

is he related to harold koh?

x-post Oh really? I didn't know that. That is pretty cool.

oh ha i guess it's his brother

I was just going to say that they're brothers, yeah. Some family!!

thought you guys were talking about koh and kim being bros and i was gonna scold you for yr despicable racialism

e - JK bein pres actually makes me think that D might shake its rep as the least, uh, 'socially engaged' ivy and start pumping out smart ppl that want to do stuff other than investment banking

Investment banking and skiing. I hear they like to do that too. ;p

http://i43.tinypic.com/dggkra.jpg

lol. What? I like to ski too. It's all good.

joeks

so, anal bleaching, huh

yep

What about cosmetic dental surgery? There are a whole lot more people with bad teeth than bad breasts or saggy butts, I imagine, just because the natural inclination of teeth from birth onward seems to be decay. Is correcting your bite, whitening, capping, etc., any more or less ethically complicated than work done to your skin/body?

uhhhhhhhhhhh

already come up

OK I didn't read the whole thread either but I think they covered this one earlier today.

Must of missed it because I was distracted by the blinding glare of my teeth off the computer screen.

Slippery slope on dentistry, I'd say correcting bite is key after watching someone later in his life with tmj issues. Tooth spacing? Not a clue how I'd put it.

I think part of my distaste about cosmetic surgery, particularly facial, comes from it being still really crude in a lot of ways. It feels like it's at the Crimean War sawbones stage of things, not the keyhole heart surgery level. I mean, if you could just inject a load of bone-shaping nanobots or the like that would wend their way to someone's jaw and "fix" it for them, my objections begin to disappear.

I used to work in a retouching dept for a magazine, and we'd talk a lot about the ethics and impact of the work we were doing, and also would play with faces in Photoshop just to see the differences you can make. It's amazing what really subtle changes can do -- nudge an eye one way or the other, or make someone's face slightly more or less symmetrical and you can make a considerable change to the first-glance impression they make. I remember flipping the eyes of one of the guys who worked with us and suddenly he looked scarily evil. Flip the other eye over and he suddenly looked warm and cuddly.

The medical technology isn't nearly there yet, but if you could make these sorts of minor changes relatively painlessly and easily, what's the objection to improving the hands people have been dealt? It's like tucking in their shirts or straightening their ties.

Shaving armpits: C or D?

"I think part of my distaste about cosmetic surgery, particularly facial, comes from it being still really crude in a lot of ways. It feels like it's at the Crimean War sawbones stage of things, not the keyhole heart surgery level."

this is not really accurate at all

also holy crap you guys, we had an activity fair today and the plastics interest group had some brochures that were o_P

this is not really accurate at all
I know it's not really like this -- i mean, we're doing face transplants now, ffs. It's just that the face transplants that have been done so far are like the talking dog -- they're amazing in one sense, but still a bit shit when it comes to "here's a new face".

I guess I mean that compared to the things we'll able to do easily in 50 years time, the sort of surgery that happens now is going to seem primitive.

ok sure, obv, but the reason I'm guessing facial surgery seems less advanced is because you can SEE it. cuttig edge lol techniques that have been developed in other disciplines are def brought to bear in plastics, it's just that a crude bit of cobbling things together is a lot less obvious when it's under your skin, you know?

the real scum are dermatologists fyi

ps gbx i made a thread for u on ilc

it's just that a crude bit of cobbling things together is a lot less obvious when it's under your skin, you know?
Yeh totally. It's just that whereas the cutting edge stuff in some mature areas of surgery is almost icing on the cake, in cosmetic surgery it's actually a vital building block because we're only just beginning to scratch the surface of what's possible, and to get really visible amazing results is going to take techniques that are still beyond us.

An actor can even lose a role if a director suspects surgery, whether it was performed or not. John Papsidera, a casting director for the “Batman” movies, said he and a director (he declined to say which one) recently debated whether to hire an actress in her early 20s to play a teenager falling in love. The actress was talented and naturally pretty. But what stopped the director was his suspicion that, at such a young age, she already had breast implants.

“We looked at film where she was topless and it was like, ‘Maybe,’ ” Mr. Papsidera said. It wasn’t a period film, so authenticity was not an issue. Instead, the possibility of implants became “a point of reference,” he said. “It was more of, ‘Where is that person coming from as an actor?’ ” She did not get the part.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/25/fashion/25natural.html?ref=fashion

This is what happens when there are many more than 1000 qualified applicants for a job. The employer starts applying arbitrary criteria, mainly to mask the fact that they are making a purely random decision. (Which would obv imply that their "expert" judgement could have been replicated by a chimpanzee throwing darts.)

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/year-old-ambah-young-has-cosmetic-surgery-to-feel-young-again/story-e6freuzr-1225877500076

http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/mike_strobel/2011/02/02/17130531.html#/entertainment/celebrities/2010/10/28/pf-15867831.html

http://news.makemeheal.com/images/suzanne-somers-plastic-surgery.JPGhttp://www.torontosun.com/entertainment/celebrities/2010/10/28/somers.jpg

agh a few clicks on from that is a picture of a person called Carrot Top. he is one peculiar-looking fellow and I'm glad he's not famous over here.

hahaha you never forget your first sighting of Carrot Top

I thought that was Courtney Love til I clicked the link.

I'm surprised how many people are demonizing women for wanting bigger bazookas. I mean if you want to go from D to HHH I can understand how that's a little off the deep end, but what if they're 21 and still have the A's?

It is some straight frog bs to think there's something wrong about having A's.

My perceptions were a little distorted by a trip to Vegas in which there was a serious discussion of the "expected value" of a cup size.